Digital Social Hour - Discover the Unexpected Power of Self-Expression | Adam IN-Q DSH #695
Episode Date: September 4, 2024Discover the Unexpected Power of Self-Expression with Sean Kelly on the Digital Social Hour! 🎙️ Join us as we dive into an electrifying conversation with one of the world's most renowned poets, A...dam In-Q. This episode is packed with valuable insights on creativity, mental health, and the transformative power of poetry. 🌟 Don't miss out on hearing how Adam In-Q turned his passion into a thriving career and how you can unlock your inner voice! From the art of self-expression to overcoming fears of judgment, this episode will leave you inspired and ready to explore your own creative journey. Tune in now for a dose of motivation and learn how to live a more authentic and fulfilling life. 💡 Watch now and subscribe for more insider secrets. 📺 Hit that subscribe button and stay tuned for more eye-opening stories on the Digital Social Hour with Sean Kelly! 🚀 Join the conversation and explore the limitless possibilities of self-expression. Let's redefine success together! 🎨 #DigitalSocialHour #SeanKelly #Podcast #InQ #SelfExpression #Creativity #MentalHealth #Poetry #Inspiration #Aquarium #Creativity #Depression #MentalHealthDayPoetry #Anxiety #PoetrySlam #Creativity #GoldfishFry #SlamPoetry #GoldfishFood CHAPTERS: 00:00 - Intro 00:41 - Importance of Art in Society 01:54 - Overcoming Fear of Judgment 03:42 - OnlyF*ns Phase Explained 04:36 - Elements of a Great Episode 04:54 - Personal Growth Journey 05:50 - Making Money as a Poet 07:39 - First Hit Song Experience 12:52 - Monetizing Poetry Strategies 14:58 - Escaping Victim Mentality 18:58 - Encouraging Self-Expression 21:42 - Mental Health Awareness 22:54 - Never Ending Now Poetry Journal 23:27 - Poem Reading: Goldfish 29:47 - The Power of Saying "I Don't Know" 31:17 - Audience Engagement Insights 31:30 - Posner's Influence 32:43 - Challenges of Writing the Book 34:28 - Your Medicine Journey Explained 37:05 - Emotion as Energy in Motion 39:31 - Impact of Childhood Environment 40:38 - You're Not Your Worst Mistake 43:20 - Where to Find Mike's New Album & Book APPLY TO BE ON THE PODCAST: https://www.digitalsocialhour.com/application BUSINESS INQUIRIES/SPONSORS: Jenna@DigitalSocialHour.com GUEST: Adam IN-Q https://www.instagram.com/inqlife SPONSORS: Deposyt Payment Processing: https://www.deposyt.com/seankelly LISTEN ON: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/digital-social-hour/id1676846015 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5Jn7LXarRlI8Hc0GtTn759 Sean Kelly Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seanmikekelly/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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And someone like you is super different from me, like having a poet on.
I didn't even know those still existed, dude, if we're being honest.
You can't be a poet and do it for the idea of, you know, making money.
I don't think in general you should ever, like, choose art for that reason.
You should just follow your bliss and see where it takes you.
All right, guys, we got NQ, one of the most known poets in the world.
Thanks for coming on, man.
Thank you for having me, Sean. Yeah, we were just talking about how it's a lost art almost.
I haven't done it since middle school, and I feel like the generation now is even worse right i don't even
know if they're still teaching in school well they're not teaching a lot of art in school
which is a shame yeah because art i think allows people to find their own identity to explore the
world and themselves and ultimately can be a tool for stress release
anxiety release and better mental and emotional health at any age yeah i feel like when we're
young we're super artistic just naturally right and then we kind of lose it as we get older
i agree i think that we lose it because we stop using it so i think part of the reason that we
calcify is because as adults we go after the things that we're good at we stop using it. So I think part of the reason that we calcify is because
as adults, we go after the things that we're good at, the things we can make money at,
the things we can be validated by. And we tend to stop proactively getting out of our comfort zone
and creativity. And it's part of the reason that I made this new album and journal is to give people
an opportunity to express their poetic
voice. Like you don't have to be a poet to write a poem. You don't have to be a professional singer
to sing a song. You don't have to be a professional painter to put your emotions or something that's
meaningful to you or images down on a canvas. You just have to do it and be willing to play.
Absolutely. I love that advice and it resonates with me because I was so scared of posting on social media, posting a podcast,
any type of content because I was so feared of being judged. How did you get over that and how
did you move through it? Great question. I've never been asked that actually because I was a
huge introvert growing up. So I was just always scared to even do public speaking. But I just
had a co-host at first. I feel like that helped to have an extrovert co-host. So I was just always scared to even do public speaking, but I just had a co-host at first. I
feel like that helped to have an extrovert co-host. So ease my way into podcasting. And then I got
comfortable enough to do it on my own. So you found like somebody that you could partner with
that balanced you out. Yeah. And then almost probably they took from your strengths and strengthened your weaknesses and vice versa.
So you probably like learned how to be more comfortable being uncomfortable.
Yeah. And then it was just straight reps. I'm 700 episodes in now. Now to me, it's easy.
Yeah. I know I'm your fifth of the day. Salute. You know, it's very cool that you're able to do
that because it takes a lot of focus. It yeah when i filmed with doug evans he was my eighth of the day and that episode ended
up getting millions of views and talk about a good dude with a good message man big shout out to
doug evans he's the man the sprout king probably the sprout king absolutely he's probably uh an
easier person to interview though because because he's so infectious.
Yeah.
So like, even if you're tired, he'll pull the weight for everyone in the room.
Right. Yeah. There's different challenges with different types of guests. Some are introverted,
some are shy, some it's their first show, some it's the opposite where they're extroverted. And
I only asked one question the whole episode. So there's different challenges. What makes a great episode for you?
Or what are some of the episodes maybe you look back on
and you're not as fond of for whatever reason?
I did go through a weird OnlyFans phase.
And I wouldn't say I regret it,
but I kind of did that to get views.
But those aren't the right type of views I want for this podcast.
So I just sprinkle them in every now and then.
But there was a phase where I was doing like one a week.
It was crazy.
Got it.
Yeah.
But it's part of the game we play on social media.
You need to get some eyeballs some way or another.
100%.
When I, you know, my flight landed and I was like,
I want to do a little bit of research on you.
So I looked up and I saw an interview that somebody was interviewing you.
And it wasn't on the digital social hours like separate, but it was about the digital social hour. And you were just kind of saying how you choose people is unique. And, you know, you have
different motives for choosing different people, but it's always something for the most part that
you're interested in. And you were like, like this one dude, he drinks his own pee. And I started
laughing and I was like, this is going to be a fun interview.
Yeah.
I've learned so much the past year.
It's insane.
I've learned more in the past year than 25 years of my life combined just from podcasting.
Yeah, I hear that.
Yeah.
It's probably the best networking and learning vehicle in the world right now, in my opinion.
What do you think the biggest thing that you learned in the past year was for your personal growth?
Incorporating spirituality in my life life which i neglected for 25 years how do you do that uh grounding meditation um i've tried all types of therapy past life therapy i hired a psychic as a
spiritual coach different things but seeing that there's a greater purpose than just making money
was a big mindset shift for me
because for 25 years of my life,
I just chased money with no purpose.
So now I have both going for me.
And that's why the podcast is killing it,
in my opinion.
It's not just for money.
Yeah, you think people,
they maybe have like practical advice
on how to become more successful and abundant,
but also how to live a
better healthier life right yeah it's encompassing everything because at first it was just a show
about making money that was the first probably i don't know 50 100 episodes that was the goal of
the show because that was the goal for me but now as i've had all these people it's changed
cool sure yeah and someone like you is super different from me like having a poet on i didn't
even know those still existed dude if we're being honest well you can't be a poet uh and do it for
the idea of you know making money you know it's not like it's not really like that i don't think
in general you should ever like choose art for that reason. You should just follow your bliss and see where it takes you. I had many years of struggle, but I've been
lucky enough to make a great living doing what I love. Nice. Yeah. It must be tough to make a living
in that space these days. It's very hard. Eventually I ended up kind of like transitioning
into songwriting and I got pretty successful at that.
And then I think I used that financial foundation and the network that I had created to get back into spoken word because I'm so passionate about the art form.
Right. So when you were songwriting, was that ghostwriting or were you named on the pieces you were making?
No, I'm named.
Okay. So you didn't want to pursue the ghostwriting. Well, what do you mean by ghostwriting?
Like writing something and being an independent contractor
and getting paid a one-time fee
and then not being recognized for your work?
So allegedly all the top artists these days
have ghostwriters that make their songs
and you're not named anywhere.
You just get paid behind the scenes
and the artist takes credit for the song.
Yeah, I don't know a lot about that.
So I can't like overly comment on it.
But the way that we do things, even with really big artists, is it's all contractual.
And I'm named as one of the writers on the songs.
And I like it that way.
Nice.
I like it upfront, clean and clear.
And yeah, I've been really lucky to work with incredible artists over and over again.
Yeah, you've worked with some of the biggest.
So what was that first kind of hit song that propelled that side of your career?
I co-wrote Love You Like a Love Song by Selena Gomez.
That's a banger.
Which, you know, has brought a lot of changes into my life really randomly how so
well i just think it was like when you do one thing that connects with the zeitgeist
of popular culture you then know it's possible and it kind of like changes your mind state
like i think that there's a difference between the dream of dreams
and the reality of dreams.
When you have the reality of dreams,
then you kind of like own it.
It's cellular for you.
And I think you can move through life
and navigate from that place
of infinite possibility better.
Right.
You got a taste of it.
So you knew more was possible.
And from there,
you've had many other hit songs.
Yeah.
And how were you able to write in a way
that you knew it had that viral component?
Because people, there's so many writers
that never get those views, you know?
I mean, I've always considered myself a poet first
and a lyricist second.
Songwriting is very, very different than writing a poem
because writing a poem is a very personal experience.
I just choose something that's moving and meaningful to me. And then I follow the breadcrumb
trail until I reached the end. In fact, sometimes I'll be surprised where it winds up, which allows
me to know that I'm in the poem, you know, rather than like trying to make the poem what I want it to be I'm a passenger as well
yeah no that's cool because I think some people force it right they they want to go viral so bad
they're just forcing crazy lyrics or whatever trying to shock people that shock value these
days yeah that's true and then when I'm like writing with an artist or for a Disney project or something like that, I'm just thinking about how best to bring my imagination in combination with the truth through the frame of whatever this person wants to say in this song yeah and it's also stylistically different because my poems are really like
condensed and choppy there's a lot of rhythm and rhyme um conceptually you can go all over
and then you know macro micro everywhere nowhere um and it can really like touch people's hearts
in that way it's like three minutes per poem, five minutes per poem.
Oh, wow.
Whereas like songs might be three minutes,
but there's so much less lyrics in there.
So you have to actually like say something,
but not say something too deep that takes people out of the song.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And you have to use really round syllables
as opposed to like choppy syllables.
So it's a very different experience, but being a songwriter brought more tools into my toolbox
So when I went back to writing spoken word for myself
I had more of an ability to express myself and right that makes sense
No, but that makes so much sense with songwriting because if you write something too deep
They're not gonna listen. They're gonna be thinking about that lyric so much that the song's just going to keep playing yeah you want to you want them to keep their hands
up for sure yeah and that's why a lot of rap songs these days are so simple yeah you know it's like
i feel like it's lost its touch a little bit the rap and hip-hop space i don't know there's still
people that really make me think really make me feel and also can get me to throw my hands up.
Yeah.
Name them, man.
I want to hear it.
I mean, did you listen to the Kendrick Lamar diss yesterday?
Oh, I did.
I listened to it 10 times in a row.
That was amazing.
That was amazing.
Yeah.
I mean, as someone that writes poetry,
you probably really appreciated that
because there were so many different phases of that song.
It wasn't just like a one-track thing.
It was six minutes straight.
Yeah, it was crazy.
Yeah.
I've never seen a disc that long.
Yeah.
I mean,
you know,
I used to freestyle and,
and battle and do all of that back in the day.
So sometimes if you're in a cypher,
you would just go until the other person cuts you off.
But yeah,
there was like four songs within that one song that he did for real.
And,
uh,
yeah,
I loved it.
He used to freestyle rap.
Yeah.
That's cool,
man.
You still do it.
You know,
it was where I started
and I always thought
that maybe I would blow up
as a rapper
and it just never happened.
And I wound up
in an open mic for poets
when I was 19
called the Poetry Lounge
and it turned out
to be coincidentally
the biggest open mic
in the country.
Wow.
It was on Fairfax and Melrose
in LA. And we got 350 people every single week that would just pack into this tiny little club
and people would get up and do spoken word. So I got up and I was just like doing my rapping
acapella and people responded. And that community very quickly became a family. And I was on HBO's Deaf Poetry Jam.
We won the National Poetry Slam Championships together one year.
Wow.
So I woke up one day and I was like, all right, I'm definitely more of a poet than an emcee.
And I want to pursue this.
But then I had to figure out how could I monetize it while maintaining my artistic integrity, which was quite a journey.
I bet.
Were you a big student of the game? Were
you studying a lot of poets? Yeah. Yeah. Any that stood out to you that you really liked?
Well, I, I'd say the people that I was inspired by most were the people that were in my community.
They were my contemporaries because a lot of us came from, uh, you know, being MCcs and uh there was that edge to the community that and i think competition
poetry it was the first time i saw people being celebrated for um i don't know being vulnerable
from a place of strength you know somebody could get up and talk about something real
yeah people would support them but it was also a place where if you got up,
if you weren't good, people would give you a pass as long as you weren't an asshole.
But if you thought you were good and you weren't good,
people would let you know.
You got kicked out?
Yeah.
I don't know, kicked out.
People would let you know for sure.
Would they boo?
Yeah.
Wow.
Has that ever happened to you?
I never got booed.
Okay.
No.
But I've been in a bunch of situations as a performer over the years that were very challenging you know the room was just tense yeah or just more
like you know i shouldn't have been performing there because as a poet you'll take whatever gig
you can get yeah literally and that's how you cut your teeth that's
how you put your 10 000 hours in right it's not a genre that has legs like other genres do um
you get to a certain talent place in other genres and for the most part if you find the right team
around you they can follow the yellow brick road to some sort of success for a poet it's very different
you know i'm like a pirate man you know i was i was in the jungle with the machete just
cutting my way through and yeah and all of us were so we probably wound up in places
um where we didn't belong but we also then learned how to perform anywhere because of it
and uh i know how to take
my space wherever i am that makes sense yeah there was probably only one path to make it as a poet
rather than as an artist you got different paths you could take right yeah what about you how if
you were to look on your path how do you think you arrived here that's deep dude i've changed
my mindset to think everything happens for me now
not to me i used to have victim mentality um but i used to listen to podcasts every single day man
10 years straight joe rogan with my dad so i think subconsciously podcasting's always been
something i liked i was fascinated with i always like to learn and uh just timing it worked out i
sold my marketing agency and then started a podcast a few
months later and fell in love with it dude now it's the most fun i've ever had doing a job i'm
really happy to hear that and i'm happy to hear that you are providing for other people something
that was so beneficial for you i do have a question though. You had that success, but you're saying you simultaneously had that
victim mentality. How do you square that? Like, do you know what I'm asking you when I ask you that?
How did I balance it?
Well, no, a lot of people that have victim mentality, even if the circumstances,
and they're right, you know, it's like these circumstances suck. But if you start then
taking that on, you see it even when you're not in those circumstances, right? And it becomes
oftentimes very difficult to have success. So how did you have success while simultaneously
having that victim mentality? I think hard work offset it to a certain degree. I worked very hard
for five years straight, 15 hours a day on average, seven days a week. So that might've offset it a bit, but really just personal development,
probably the most trying to get out of that mentality, trying to unlearn a lot of things
I learned growing up and just being around the right people. So environment. So I'd say those
three things helped me get out of it. And even today, like I still have trouble admitting when
I'm wrong sometimes, but it's not as bad as it was.
It used to be every single thing
was someone else's fault.
And you feel like
everything was somebody else's fault
because if you took responsibility for it,
then the illusion would come crashing down.
Yeah, I just had no accountability
for my actions.
It was crazy.
Looking back on it,
it's nuts that I thought that way.
I can relate to that.
I was an only child.
Yeah, me too. So I think that might've played a role. What else in your family dynamic do you think led to that? crazy looking back on it it's nuts that i thought that way i can relate i was an only child yeah me
too so i think that might have played a role what what else in your family dynamic do you think led
to that or divorced parents you too my mom and my dad were not together at all and so i didn't even
meet my dad until i was 15 years old wow yeah and uh that was very complicated because then I externalized what I thought a man was supposed
to be like. And I had a lot of self-worth issues as well. Victim mentality continued to play the
same negative loop over and over again. And what you choose to focus on grows. So I think I was
very violent to myself internally and i was probably violent to
my relationships and to the world at large uh until i got to a place where i was like
okay like this isn't working anymore yeah and then i slowly crawled myself out of the hole that i had
dug but strangely enough poetry was always a companion for me. And it was always an outlet for at least having more clarity.
And at least I gave myself the opportunity for alchemy to take whatever I was going through that I had nobody else to discuss it with and put it on the page so I could see that story as separate from me. And I think in a way that's partly what led me to not only do
keynotes and public shows, but also workshops to get other people telling their own story so that
they can have a sense of empowerment through creativity. I love it. So it's almost like
therapy for you. It has been for sure. Wow. Yeah. It's powerful. Yeah. Traditional therapy
didn't work on me,
but I could see something like this actually working better for me,
being able to get my thoughts on paper, express myself,
because I used to hide emotions.
Yeah, I mean, you should definitely use the journal.
Yeah. I think it would be surprising how much impact it could have.
I see it over and over again.
I started out doing these
things at libraries and junior highs and high schools. And basically I was like giving kids
an opportunity to express themselves, to see and be seen, to talk about things that were important
and to be celebrated for their voice, unique voice and to accept each other so
they could create a powerful community and i saw it was like real for these kids it gave them a
new perspective and in many ways shifted people's lives wow but i didn't think it would work on
adults you know it wasn't until 15 years later that i started doing like corporate gigs and i
realized whoa like adults need this as much if not more than kids do because they have more stories
that are piled upon other stories so they have to move through all the layers just to like get to
something true interesting yeah because you're speaking out fortune 500 companies yeah and what is that message? Cause you're not in their face telling them what to do. You're
more laid back. What are you motivating these guys to do? Well, my first book was called inquire
within, and that really is what I'm telling them to do. I'm saying inquire within this can be a
bonding exercise. It can be a chance to connect with each other a lot of times in the workplace especially
people have miscommunication because they have lack of context they don't know who they're
working with literally and then they have conflict because they've misunderstood something
so this is a contained opportunity through creativity and specifically poetry, which is something they would never normally use,
to get to know each other and to cheer for each other and to remember that they're on the same
side. So it's like a trust building exercise for organizations. That's important because there's a
lot of jealousy within organizations, right? Yeah. Climbing the ladder. Machiavellian. Yeah. Yeah.
So it's important that they're all on the same team with the same mission, but not to get too jealous of each other, even though someone's making a little more or whatever.
Yeah.
I mean, look, the reality is, is like if within a company people were vulnerable all the time, nothing would get done.
Right.
Literally nothing would get done.
But being vulnerable none of the time isn't working either.
And as generations change and culture changes, I think companies and corporations are recognizing that.
Yeah.
We were talking earlier.
You mentioned you did some mental health stuff as well.
Yeah.
And that's part of the reason why we're putting out the journal and the album this May for Mental Health Month.
Because for me, as you you said this was therapy it was a tool for better mental and emotional health and I see over and over again how it can be the same tool
for other people but I wanted to scale the experience without me having to be there
right because otherwise I always have to show up to facilitate and there's a limit to that. Yeah you can't scale
that. No like I'm going to Mexico for a kind of like a corporate retreat slash festival tomorrow
but only they're going to experience it and even if they have the most incredible experience in
the workshop ultimately they're going to leave without a structure to
continue on right so i always try to say hey you don't need me to create more poems you just have
to choose something moving and meaningful put 20 minutes on the clock and create something and then
share it with somebody else yeah so you can be witnessed and release it into the world
um but there was no roadmap so the never ending now poetry journal
is a roadmap well man the quality is so great it's the best quality i felt on a journal to be honest
thank you well done whoever published this yeah so this is in partnership with passion planner
and they really did a world-class job it's beautiful from cover to cover and it goes
through all of the poems on the album with different themes. So it gives people an opportunity to move through fear, through pain, through happiness, through dreams, growth, all the way up until love and gratitude.
So you write the poems with intention of evoking a certain emotion out of the reader?
No.
I named them afterwards.
Okay. Wow. That's interesting.
You know, it's not like I sit down and think, what does anybody else want to hear? Or how do
I want to confine people's experience of my art? Instead, I sit down and I think,
I'm the first person in my audience. What am I curious about? Like, I'll do an example poem and I'll give you the setup.
I went to my cousin's house and she had this like little pond in the backyard.
Yeah.
And she had these, what I thought were koi fish swimming around.
They were like these really big fish.
So I said, oh, Sophia, when did you get these koi fish?
And she says, they're not koi fish, they're goldfish. I said, oh, Sophia, when did you get these koi fish? And she says, they're not koi fish, they're goldfish.
I said, goldfish?
Because my only experience of goldfish is like, you know, you go to a fair when you're a kid.
You win a little game.
You get a goldfish in a bag.
And then you go back home.
You put it in a bowl.
It lives for literally like a week.
And then you flush it down the toilet.
Mine lasted a day.
Yeah, see?
There you go.
So I said, these are not goldfish.
Goldfish are two inches.
She said, no, goldfish will change their size depending upon their environment.
Wow.
And I said, really?
And she said, yeah.
So I went home.
I looked it up.
And it's true.
Goldfish will literally change their size.
Like their body will change depending upon where they live.
And I thought I could relate, so I wrote this poem.
Defining myself is like confining myself.
So I undefined myself to find myself
they say a goldfish will only get as big as its bowl
but if you put it in a tank the space can change the way it grows
it needs to have the room or its potential doesn't show
so its environment's essential for unleashing the unknown.
I ponder if it knows that it could grow beyond the bowl,
that it could have a pond the size of an Olympic swimming pool,
that the world is so much larger than the boundaries that it's known.
Somehow I empathize with this little golden soul
because I too have unexplored and unexpressed goals
that were suppressed by an environment I couldn't control.
Am I still playing small because it's all that I've known
when there's a giant in my bones I'm not sure I've ever shown?
I ask myself this question when I'm purposely alone.
When my body grows to take up all the rooms inside my home,
I expand in all directions, every single inch consumed.
I'm a billion feet tall now, my head over the moon.
I look down on the earth as it slowly spins around.
I look down on the countries and the cities and the towns.
I look down on the square blocks and buildings all around.
I look down on my street and rip the roof right off my house.
I look down on myself sitting writing on my couch.
Look, I barely pay attention. I'm the
one that's looking down. How unaware I am of where I am. It's profound. So I put the roof back on and
I shrink myself back to the ground. Man, it's crazy how I fit infinity inside my doubt
How I stuff the universe into the tiniest amounts
How I keep the solar system in the corner of my mouth
How I speak into existence, then forget what I'm about
And most days, I'm not sure which side of the glass I've been on
I win a Grammy in the
shower every time I sing a song. But when the spotlight is on, my first instinct's to run.
I have to super glue my feet to even tell you where I'm from. I've been training for a quarantine
since I was very young. For an introvert, it slightly hurts to tell you that they'll come. I would rather get into a
staring contest with the sun, although I'll never get to see who won. It's nature and its nurture
twisting into jungle life, fighting the competition, branching out to reach the light. I tried to
listen but could only hear my ancient heart. It screamed at me to make my life into my greatest art.
But where to start?
These walls are keeping people out and keeping people in.
I guess it's good to know where someone ends and someone else begins. But our boundaries become prisons
when we see what could have been.
The biggest goldfish ever measured 18 inches snout to fin.
Fin.
Wow.
That was bars.
I love it.
Nice.
Deep message there too. relatable because you know we
grew up in our house and we think that's it we think that's the world but getting out and traveling
can really expand your consciousness and what you know about the world and the podcast too
just having a conversation with somebody being willing to like go there with them like really
see who they are meet them in the middle
yep be willing to be the teacher and the student yeah podcasting is great and i i hope people are
more open about the guests they have on because some podcasts just have on one sort of crowd
but that's why my show is unique i'll have on all sorts of people got the perspective
you're saying because like some things will be like overly health oriented or overly sports
oriented or.
No, if it's a health podcast, that makes sense.
I mean, more like divisive things like politics, religion, stuff like that.
Yeah.
There's a lot of divisiveness out there.
A lot.
You know what I think we should repopularize?
Saying, I don't know.
Yeah. But powerfully like instead of saying like i don't know or needing to pretend that you know how about just saying i don't know i need to do some more
research i need more conversations around that before i formulate an opinion that I'm ready to share.
People think they're experts on everything.
Yeah, they're forced to as well.
You have to have not only an opinion, you have to have their opinion.
Right.
I love that, though.
That's true.
Yeah.
We should popularize that.
Say, I don't know more, guys, if you're watching this.
It's okay to say it. And it's okay to say it from a place of strength. Yeah. Yeah. We should popularize that. Say I don't know more guys if you're watching this. It's okay to say it.
And it's okay to say it from a place of strength.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think people feel weakened when they say it for some reason, but it's okay if you don't
know enough about the topic.
I mean, there's plenty of things I don't know.
That's how I know things.
Good old Google, right?
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Good old Google.
It's a different time, man.
I don't think you need to go to college to learn certain things anymore.
Did you go to college?
I did for a year.
Me too.
Did you major in poetry?
I mean, I majored in communications because I was confused and I had no idea what I wanted
to do.
What did you major in?
I was trying to do marketing, but couldn't get in the marketing school.
So I think we both basically did what we were supposed to do.
Yeah.
Now we have one of the
top marketing shows. Ironic, right? How many people listen to this per episode do you think?
If you add the clips in a lot, because the clips are getting millions a day. We're more on the
short form than long form, but millions, I don't know millions per day, but millions per month.
And you said that Posner was one of your favorite interviews. Shout out to Posner.
I just love how authentic he is.
It's rare to find people like that these days.
Yeah.
He's a very true, connected, grounded person, artist, and friend.
Yeah.
To have that openness, it takes a lot to be that open.
Yeah.
He's actually one of the reasons that I decided to put out the never ending now album in the first place nice because when i finished it it was so vulnerable and it had been so healing
for me as a process to create it because it's really about my path to love right self-love
first and then you know partner and then the world yeah um i was like man this is like
really important for me to create,
but I don't know that I want to show it to anybody as a product.
Like I wasn't sure that I wanted anybody's judgments, criticisms,
even compliments.
I didn't want to like externalize my self-worth in that way.
Interesting.
So I decided to send it to five people,
and Posner was one of the people that I sent it to.
And my criteria was like if anybody got back to me and said
that it really resonated with them,
then it would be worth it.
Wow.
And Posner got back to me right away
and he was like, you have to put this out.
That's huge.
Yeah, so.
So you were very uncomfortable making this book?
Well, the book is a little bit easier for me
because the book is like taking all the poems,
putting them in one place and then
creating prompts and context for poetry so it removes any barricades for people finding their
own voice got it um the album's different because the poems are that way it's like when i have
creation and i finish creation then i decide do I want to put this out as a presentation?
So it's first creation, then presentation. Not all the things that I create, do I wind up
presenting, but all of the poems that are in the book and are in the album, I was ready to present.
So I felt comfortable with that. The thing that was uncomfortable is my wife and I have a very intimate conversation that was recorded, but was not intended for anybody else to hear it as the through line of like intimacy. And it was based on a medicine journey that I had gone on. And I was
kind of like sharing some of the things that had happened during it. And halfway through our
conversation, we were in the car. She like took out her phone and just started recording it. And
I knew she was doing it, but we were already so in the flow that I didn't change my tone at all.
So I wasn't like busy with how I would be perceived and because of that it's really raw
wow but it also was like the perfect backdrop to the rest of the album because it can be a
mirror for other people to think about their own journey to self-love that's that's really cool
was there an intention when you went on that medicine journey that or a problem you wanted to
fix um I had been seeing a therapist for like six months
and she also ran these retreats i don't want to say her name because you know it's not yet
able to do that in a way um that maybe she would want so uh but it was very meaningful for me and
uh it culminated in us doing this kind of like journey together and i did
3.5 grams of mushrooms and i nice uh mdma and i did uh dmt all at once i mean it was during a day
holy crap yeah that's intense um i've done mushrooms and mdma that's acid right no mdma is uh molly basically okay i haven't done molly yeah uh
it's fun yeah i've done mushrooms and i would pick mushrooms over acid personally not drug
advice by the way yeah i'm not promoting anything for anybody i'm just sharing my life i'm a big
microdoser actually oh yeah twice a week do you do it right now i was thinking about it this morning
but i didn't um okay yeah i haven't done it for a podcast actually i Do you do it right now? I was thinking about it this morning, but I didn't.
Okay. Yeah. I haven't done it for a podcast actually. I like to do it while I'm working.
Yeah. I understand. Yeah. It just gets you focused. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. It's really, really helpful. I've done split tests on days where I'll do the same task
with and without, and I'm like twice as productive. Yeah yeah do you have a hard time coming down though
even when it's microdosing because i'm very sensitive and no matter what portion i take
i can feel it in my system really yeah wow you might be an empath are you really good with
energies like you could feel yes i think that i am i also think that like you know i wear a little
bit of like social armor.
Yeah.
So like I probably like detached from my body many years ago and I've been working back
to be reconnected ever since.
But yeah.
I could see that.
Yeah.
Because I don't feel it at all with mushrooms, any sort of downfall or anything.
Okay.
So you're just super sensitive.
That's interesting.
But that makes sense as a poet.
You got to be really in tune with your emotional side yeah to the point sometimes that i wish that
i wasn't it's annoying yeah but it's like your superpower is also your kryptonite right right
and as a guy it's even more annoying because we get judged on being too emotional you know
expressing ourselves and we should change that narrative too. But I was scared of just expressing myself growing up.
Yeah.
But you don't seem like that to me anymore.
Now, yeah, I'm not as much, I'd say.
I still won't cry on camera.
But yeah, I've gotten a lot better.
But will you cry off camera?
That's a good question.
My dad passed last year.
I actually cried.
Sorry about that.
But even that, I was like trying to hold it back
to be honest because you thought you weren't supposed to uh just because i haven't done in
so long i forgot how to yeah i just started coming out you know so i'll say something to you and like
i hope it doesn't come off as pretentious at all because i don't mean it to be
but emotion is energy and motion that's really all it is it's supposed to move
and the thing is is if the energy doesn't move then it can get trapped inside of us and that's
in many ways i think what turns into disease or dis ease or you take it out on somebody in traffic
and i'm not talking about you i'm talking about
the universal you i'm talking about me talking about us so you have to find ways to move the
energy and like crying is just like it's like letting air out of a tire man you know it's just
our judgment on crying that uh makes us scared to do it because it makes us feel like we're weak or we're not men.
It's necessary. And if you don't do it through tears, fine, do it through laughter or do it
through moving your body, meditation, breath work, but you have to find ways to move the energy, man.
I agree. I think there's trapped energy in people's bodies and it can manifest into disease.
Yeah. I 100% agree with that. Yeah. And a lot of guys just keep that bottled in, think there's trapped energy in people's bodies and it can manifest into disease yeah i 100 agree
with that yeah and a lot of guys just keep that bottled in you know that anger or sadness whatever
it is yeah and look rightfully so like i get it you know you don't want to go into a situation and
uh feel like not in control of that situation because not being in control could bring about danger
mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually, you know, so you want to protect yourself. And I,
I understand that as well, but like, if you're protecting yourself all of the time and you're
carrying your armor all of the time, it can get really heavy you know and and at a certain point you forget to even put
it down yeah so it almost like fuses to your skin so um that's when you have to like just dig dig
dig dig to get back to that soft place um inside of you um because that that place is special too
absolutely and i think a lot of its environment environment too, because my parents both, um, so my mom would deal with her problems with anger.
So yelling, sometimes slapping, whatever. Yeah. And then my dad had Asperger's, so he didn't even
know how to express emotion at all. So how did you navigate that? Well, I didn't know he had that
till he was 60. So I just thought that was normal. But, um but um yeah some days he'd be yelling some days he'd
be distant and i would just have to be very observant that's why i'm a good a good listener
good podcast host i think um but it was tough with my mom because once i got older i started
wanting to fight back yeah and i remember one day we were fighting i pushed her she almost fell down
the stairs i could have killed my mom right just right being a teenager
and i was like wow i need to really control this or it could end up ugly you know i hear you man
there's all sorts of stories like that i'm glad that that didn't happen you know and i'm glad that
you were also able to recognize it because there are many many people that had a moment like that, me included, that it could have taken that left rather than the right.
And, you know, I did a workshop in jail in Flint, Michigan last year. And, you know, a lot of these
guys, man, just came from hard environments and made some mistakes, but everybody wanted the same thing. They wanted
really to be loved ultimately, to be seen, to be respected, to have purpose for their families to
be okay. They wanted safety and prosperity. So I think we have these like universal commonalities
and sometimes, you know, these things happen in our lives and it's good to just remember that
you're not your worst mistake. You're not your your worst day and also if you can recognize it in real time you
can make changes and those changes can inspire other changes from others yeah it's crazy how
one bad judgment can can end up in jail from a prison yeah all from one time where you couldn't
control that emotion yeah but you could for, write a poem about that moment, right?
Because that's like a moving and meaningful moment in your life.
It's a moment that happened that you're already charged about.
You wouldn't talk about it after 15 minutes normally at a dinner party or something like that.
So it's that layer deeper.
And if you say to yourself, I'm writing a poem and then you start to write it
doesn't matter how you write stylistically it can rhyme if you wanted to it doesn't have to it could
be long it could be short as long as you're not like shorting yourself it could be a journal entry
but if you say it's a poem it's a poem and if you start in that place that already sparks you, the rest of it will catch fire.
And then you could actually talk about that realization and talk about how it shifted who you are in your core.
And then when you read it to somebody, it just kind of like releases a little bit of the intensity around that story and just gives you a little more clarity a little more
presence and a little more peace absolutely you're like an alchemist almost you ever been called up
thanks i appreciate you saying that that's like a very high compliment i don't consider myself
an alchemist but i do consider art alchemy like art is a form of alchemy you're taking
something and transforming it into something else. And then if you're willing
to give it away with an open heart, you can make other people feel less alone in the world
because they can see their story in yours. Yeah. So I'm just trying to take pain and turn it into
something beautiful. Yeah. I just feel like you're able to channel your energy,
your emotions onto paper and then have someone else read it and kind of feel
that it's cool.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's really cool,
man.
when does the,
did the album and the book drop already?
Yeah.
So the album's coming out,
um,
I think in a couple of days,
but by the time people listen to this,
it'll be out.
You can listen to it on Spotify or Apple or YouTube,
anywhere that, you know the
streaming platforms are and then uh the never ending now poetry journal you can get it at
in-q.com which is my website or passionplanner.com which is my partner in creating this piece of art
and then you can also get it on amazon and if you do get it or you
listen to the album please reach out to me because i would love to hear about your experiences we just
are very excited about giving people a new outlet for mental and emotional health for creativity
and uh love it man we'll link it below Anything else you want to close off with or promote?
No, just appreciate you having me, man.
I really enjoyed chatting with you.
Yeah, that was fun, man.
Thanks for watching, guys.
See you tomorrow.
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