Digital Social Hour - Doing $750K a Month, Building Out Sales Teams & Running Paid Ads | Dennis Deheza DSH #284

Episode Date: February 14, 2024

Dennis Deheza comes on the podcast to discuss how he scaled his business to $750,000 a month, the proper way to build out a sales team and the most effective way to run paid ads. APPLY TO BE ON THE PODCAST: https://forms.gle/qXvENTeurx7Xn8Ci9 BUSINESS INQUIRIES/SPONSORS: [e-mail] SPONSORS: Opus Pro: https://www.opus.pro/?via=DSH Deposyt Payment Processing: https://www.deposyt.com/seankelly LISTEN ON: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/digital-social-hour/id1676846015 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5Jn7LXarRlI8Hc0GtTn759 Sean Kelly Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seanmikekelly/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If I'm crushing it, it's mainly because I put in the work without expecting anything return first. And I feel like most people have that switched around, but rather they should start thinking, Hey, let me just, I kind of like saying this. Why don't I just multiply the time that I want to be successful by 10 and then understand that that's going to be the actual time that it's going to get me even close to success. Wherever you guys are watching this show, I would truly appreciate it if you follow or subscribe. It helps a lot with the algorithm.

It helps us get bigger and better guests, and it helps us grow the team. It truly means a lot. Thank you guys for supporting, and here's the episode. All right, my Bolivian brother, Dennis Tejeda, coming on the show today. Yeah, man. How's it going? Good, man. How are you? It's fun to connect about that because, like I said, my fiance is Bolivian brother, Dennis Tejeda, coming on the show today. Yeah, man. How's it going? Good, man. How are you? It's fun to connect about that because, like I said, my fiance is Bolivian. I don't meet

many Bolivian people. So represent, bro. I know, especially out here in Vegas. Yeah. And especially ones that are business, honestly. Yeah. Yeah. You're doing eight figures a year. I'd love to dive into that. You basically build out sales teams, right? Yeah. So mainly what I do is there's a lot of these high ticket offers that have lots of leverage with either lots of followers or they're an authority in the space. And honestly, a lot of times what ends up happening is the owner knows how to market themselves.

They know how to sell a product in regards to the front end. But a lot of times they don't really know how to actually build a sales team. And what that means is they might be the only person who's actually selling, you know, their product or their program. And that usually gets to around like 50K per month, maybe a hundred K per month. But eventually if you want to scale those businesses, you definitely need closers, setters, DM setters, different departments, of course. But primarily, I focus on just building those sales teams to make sure that they can effectively just have the time they need to do, which is mainly focused on marketing, honestly,

every day. And then just making sure I can recruit the best people and train them and manage them as well. Right. So you come in when the business is already established doing at least 50 to a hundred K a month. And from there you help them scale to maybe two 50, 500,

right? Yeah. A hundred percent. So it really depends based on the leverage. And I'm probably going to say that word a lot, but if somebody is doing even 10, 20 or even 30 K per month, who probably doesn't have as much revenue coming in or cash collected

and if i see that business and they have the capability of scaling to six seven figures a month that's kind of where i come in chat with an owner kind of negotiate a deal to be honest and just you know talk about the potential of how it can actually get to another level right what's the highest you've seen per month out of a client or someone you worked with uh the one that was doing around 750k damn what was he selling yeah uh e-commerce e-commerce coaching yeah yeah wow was it drop shipping yeah yeah i feel like that that wave was huge is it still right now it's now but the thing is is there there are some big players um in the actual space but the reality reality is that there's a difference factor when it comes to people who can actually scale

past a certain number. And again, that really comes to the team, right? So you can have a large social media presence. You can have the best mentorship. Honestly, that doesn't matter, right? Because at the end of the day, if you come in and you have a team of A players, like I like saying it, then you know that every league gets contacted um every booked appointment is qualified

and every call that comes in uh can actually get closed at a high closing percentage because there are other businesses who have that capability yeah but the reality is is that they don't have a team because that's not their specialty. Their specialty is the results and marketing, and they're good at bringing in people. They just don't know how to close those people. Nice. Which funnels have you seen success with? Say people are watching this, they want to get into coaching or launch a course. What should they do from there?

Yeah, my biggest thing is, again, I like using the highest leverage of making sure that on the marketing end, I'm more of an IG social funnel type of guy um i know there's other people who run vso ads right off the bat yeah um but i like primarily having trust authority nurturing with the ig followers you know at least at least 100k followers you know at the minimum maybe it's 50k if it's kind of like in a tight blue ocean kind of market yeah but um the funnel i like running is making sure that there's a large following. We give away some resources, some giveaways, some poll votes. You have a team of

DM setters that contact those leads. And then if they're not qualified correctly, if they're kind of iffy, if they can't book directly to the closers, then you take them to the appointment setter who ends up calling all the leads that are kind of the opt-in. Shout out to the Science of Scaling podcast hosted by Mark Roberge. It's brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. Each week, Mark, founding CRO at HubSpot CRO and senior lecturer at Harvard Business School, interviews some of the most successful sales leaders in tech to learn the secrets, strategies, and tactics to scaling company growth. He recently had on the head of sales

from OpenAI, and that was a very interesting episode on the future of AI. Listen to the Science of Scaling wherever you get your podcasts today. The opt-in on the link in bio. So basically to put in a gist, the funnel that I like running is people who have a large social media following. You have setters to contact those people. They've been nurtured for three to six months, maybe a year because they've been following them. They built that trust. Then you have, you know, really good A player closers to close those leads as well. I'm always, I always kind of explain this like, would you rather, you know, push a big boulder up a mountain or would you rather go skiing down mountain you know i prefer skiing down mountain so i don't like running ads right off the bat because you don't necessarily

have the right messaging in place you don't know what's actually working out there for the market yeah after 100 200 300k per month then you can run igdm ads then you can run vso ads because you pretty much hit the nail on the head of what's working and what's closing as well yeah this is super exciting for me so like i'm doing about 150 a month right now and i'm not doing any paid ads so i feel like incorporating that could really ramp up revenue yeah yeah i mean are you doing mainly like just like just for the podcast and such like yeah people apply to come on um cold email cold dms but that's it yeah no paid ads yeah you can go horizontal too like i was actually thinking about this morning like you can always you have a large following right you always do shout outs yeah right i haven't

done any of those yeah i was thinking that i was like you always could do shout outs because you have a large following and people would pay i mean with that e-commerce offer we're paying for somebody who had a million or two million funds two thousand dollars per post on which page uh wealth oh that's a good page. Yeah, yeah. Wealth, millionaire mentor. Yeah, all those. We're paying 2K. And that was two or three years ago. Nice. So you can definitely,

and then you can do that two or three times a day. You can always go horizontal another way of, I mean, you've built a podcast. You can teach other people doing a podcast. That's on my, yeah, that's on my peripheral, just my course or community. Yeah, and then even if they were to sell a higher, like if you were to sell like a 5K mentorship and then the the 10k 20k premier is like you also promote them so then their podcast

becomes bigger so there's a lot of like i actually was thinking this morning like i was like you know when i had my coffee and was doing a little bit of work i was like what's what's his leverage you know and you already have like you have i mean you have a follow event yeah there's a big opportunity for you to be honest yeah and on youtube we're growing 20k a day right now yeah that's great yeah and then youtube is honestly one of the best um ways to kind of nurture people because of its you know it's long form content you know so like people you can just put a little link there and then i have a guy that i just did a rev share deal with who has around like around 250 000 subscribers and um we implement like a link in there just to book a call and we already got like we're getting like 100 leads a day damn yeah just from one video

well no well yeah basically just like we put the link in you know the bio for all the all the videos on the channel yeah and we kind of just created an opt-in form you know email phone number and the past three days we've had like over 300 leads now we really have to build a team yeah because it's just like there's a f**k on the leads basically yeah so to handle that many leads you probably need what five closers yeah i mean honestly a lot of times it's only going to be maybe like 10 to 20 percent of those leads that are qualified so you i would in that scenario i would probably put in two setters appointments there's a hit them up and then probably two closers i usually like having having the amount of setters you have or the amount of closers you should have.

And each of them should actually bring in around 100K in rev each. Interesting. Yeah, for the closers. So you can predict, you know, if I'm going to hit 500K a month in rev, I can have five closers, five setters. If you have a **** closer, you know, you can have that closer doing 200K in rev. And, you know, it's an easy way to predict, you know you can have that closer doing 200k in rev and um you know it's it's a it's an easy way to predict you know um where you want to actually project in the next coming months right

you kind of bring one in and what i like doing just a little side note is i like having a team of two by two and then i don't like externally hiring somebody for a closer i like internally promoting that setter because now they know the system for three to six months and i just add on setters to that system interesting so then you have somebody who comes in to kind of start you know get their feet with and then they end up going to become a closer afterwards because now they're already done a lots of calls 15 20 minute calls and qualify those people right wow so it's like a system almost yeah 100 it's a system um that's the system i like because i found that if you externally promote somebody, even if they have the right experience, they typically aren't in a position where they kind of know the right messaging right off the bat. You might have that person who

randomly does, but I prefer hungry setters who I tell them in three to six months, maybe a year, you'll become a closer if you call it. And the easiest way to do that as well is just hand them a couple calls and see if they can you know actually close and if not they kind of know the answer and you can't really deny if they're going to get you know promoted to that or not yeah work back up to it that makes sense what what's your biggest marketing spend is it facebook ads um it depends on the offer um i would say definitely facebook ads for an offer for mainly running IGDM and VSL ads but the reality is is you want two or three hundred K per month maybe even four hundred K if it's a large amount of you know I mean you would you would just honestly you could probably hit 500k easily if you have the right systems and we're gonna talk after this yeah you have a lot of i

mean bro you got 11 million followers so like um typically you can max out maybe three to four hundred k a month organically i like having that organic structure because now you know safely unless ig when you do something and like you get taken down or whatever but you safely have a foundation right right right of like every single month i'm getting two or three hundred k per month because i have these nurture followers after that once you have the right messaging in place then you can run igdm ads and you can hit the nail on the head because i have an offer that's less than a dollar we're getting you know leads and we have around like a 15 16 you know x row as because it's just like we know the right exact messaging after doing this for like six months and then you can run vso ads so um so yeah i guess the the largest marketing spend

um ends up becoming igdm ends of vso ads but you primarily want to have that foundation of a of a nice foundation of you know you post a video up you're gonna get followers you're gonna get reach dm setters can reach those people and so on and so forth. Interesting. Where do the DM ads show up? I'm trying to think if I've seen those before. The DM, you can make it mainly on the reels. I like making sure that it just does automatic placement

so it can kind of go anywhere. But typically, it will show up in the IG stories, IG reels. Oh, the stories. Yeah, the feed. It usually just kind of auto-populates, and the algorithm kind of feeds where it should be. But just to give an example, if let's say a social media profile,

like a fitness offer, e-commerce offer, affiliate, whatever, let's say there's a blueprint. And this is a real example right now with a fitness offer I have. One of the blueprints in organic produces the most leads because we have an athlete that's associated with that blueprint. We kind of just use her as kind of like the cover of the blueprint. So therefore, if it works with this smaller audience,

then you run the same IGDM ads, use that same exact system and messaging and framework on IGDM ads. And then that's where you can really make sure that you have, you know, the highest, you know, row. Wow. Yeah. So you kind of, you can do it based on a resource. You can do it based on a CTA, but it really depends what is working organically first, because now, you know, the messaging is correct. You know, everything's lined up correctly. Yeah. Then now you can put it into colder ads, but it's not too cold because you already have the data of what's working organically yeah that's why you can hit the nail on the head dude i love that 16 to 18 x row is the highest

i've ever heard so yeah you're crushing yeah yeah i mean like uh it's funny even the owner was like how's this row like is this good and i was like bro like people love like two or three yeah yeah i'm like yeah so um i used to have to chill him out i'm like hey like we're actually doing i mean i don't think he knows uh you know so he's just like is this good i was like bro like we're making you know 20k off of just spending a little bit of money i used to aim for two when i did e-commerce yeah yeah yeah i mean like two or even three is like good i think in the high ticket space that's still that's still decent three to five ends up being good but anything above if you're in that eight to ten it's like you know it's a um you know ad or anything yeah you're in a whole nother tier man that's dope um is it

scalable though that's the question right because how much are you spending to get those rows yeah right now we're spending a hundred dollars a day um what we need to do actually is build out more dm setters and more setters because you know there's more leads than we actually handle wow that's honestly like that's a good problem yeah that's a good problem right when you have too many leads and you're like trying to figure out the team um so it is scalable um mainly because you're always getting data you can always test the data on your organic page and kind of see, okay, does this resource work? You're tracking that data.

You just take that and put it into IGDM ads. And the testing, that's not too hard once you already... A lot of people, when they end up testing, they kind of just test like, well, let's see if this... If I just throw this on the wall, if it works. You're pretty much testing something that you have a high percentage of understanding that it's working or not

because you're getting the data from your social media page first. So that's why it can get scalable. When you have something that's working, I just talked to the owner, we're going to end up spending $500 a day once we build up more setters and DM setters. Damn, I ought to be killing it.

That's dope. Now, a lot of people try getting in the space the info space coaching courses why do you think you were able to crush it did you start crushing it off the bat or did it take some time i mean bro yeah i mean for me um i can talk sales i can talk you know reps who want to become into the sales space i can talk people who also uh you, want to kind of have their own product. I think a lot of people honestly just don't have the patience to kind of wait and kind of grow whatever they need to do. I have even pushed honestly my content because I feel like I should, I'm always just working on the backend. And I know this year is a year where I'm going to actually push it out, but I'm more of a person of, I'm mainly doing the work, but for seven to

eight years, I had my own fitness business. i was doing sales the whole time then i transitioned that to online because kind of me with that i had to just i was in san francisco i had to move across the country um i grew that then i started helping other uh you know fitness businesses on the side and so the reason i feel like i understand sales is because I've probably done easily over a thousand sales calls over the past seven to eight years. And I've managed lots of different teams. I scaled the business to around 750K per month. It was part of that journey.

I think if I'm crushing it, it's mainly because I've put in the work without expecting anything in return first. And I feel like most people have that switched around. They think in two or three months or six months, I should make this, you know, but rather they should start thinking, hey, let me just, I kind of like saying this. Why don't I just multiply the time that I want to be successful by 10 and then understand that that's going to be the actual time that it's going to get me even close to success.

Wow. Right. So if it's like, I want to be successful in like six months's going to get me even close to success wow right so if it's like i want to be successful in like six months well then make it 60 months can people actually wait but i think this new generation of you know things have to be done so quick and like people kind of preaching all these get rich quick you know schemes and all that um whether it's a scheme or not i think that kind of gets people into the mindset of you know oh i'm i'm not i'm not succeeding i'm failing.

Are you interested in coming on the Digital Social Hour podcast as a guest? Well, click the application link below in the description of this video. We are always looking for cool stories, cool entrepreneurs to talk to about business and life. Click the application link below. And here's the episode, guys. I even see a lot of sales reps, like they want to become a closer in like two months. I'm like, bro, like you just started. Like they want to become a closer in like two months.

I'm like, bro, like you just started, you literally just started two months ago. You're 19. Like you're not like you got along. Would you say it takes to be, Oh,

I think now with the education, um, and all the courses out there, all the offers out there, because now it's becoming like a big thing. Um, I think it could take, I would, I would,

I would rather tell somebody wait a year or two before you become a closer, stay at a place for at least a valuable skill that is priceless because if you want to become a sales manager if you want to you know run your own offer you can see something grow from you know where it's at which may be little to nothing to you know a higher amount but you only can do that if you trust the you know the actual like offer and you you have the patience to be there for a year or two right you know i think there's more value in saying i'll just wait here and actually just see what an actual business looks like instead of just saying i want to make you know now 10k a month as it closes like bro you're learning a lot more money you know something more valuable when you see when you're patient you get to understand right

the process looks like yeah learning super important so i actually when i get a good facebook ad i'll sign up just to see their funnel and study their marketing yeah so i signed up for cole gordon's i even yeah really good i even hopped on calls with their teams just to study how they sell he almost got me bro i mean that is he's good he's really tight too he has like everything really tight yeah yeah i had no intention of buying and he's really tight too he has like everything really tight yeah yeah i had no intention of buying and he almost sold me a 10 oh you hopped on a call i hopped on a sales call with one of his team and i was just so impressed with the way he was he pulled up a google doc had all these points he was writing live on the call it was impressive was it for mentors like

business mentorship or was it like to become like was it sales stuff it was similar to you it was about scaling paid ads so i was like wow wow, this is a really good funnel. I mean, that dude's doing 50 mil a year. Yeah, he's doing really good. He has, that was the boardroom that I went to. He calls it boardroom, but I just say mastermind because most people know what that means. When I was part of the journey of the e-commerce software,

and that's what kind of opened my eyes because I was like i was like holy like every there's like over 100 businesses here you know doing from 100k per month all the way to like 1.2 1.1 yeah um i grew up watching elliot holst and i was like holy it's like right here which is kind of funny um but yeah um that was a couple years ago and uh i feel like that I learned a lot because I understood what's really going on the inside, what's actually scaling people, and it's not just ads. It's also being in a blue ocean market. It was just really interesting stories that I heard. The people who had the best problems always were in these spaces

that nobody ever heard of. Like random niches? Dude, I mean, there's this guy who was um he worked with muslim land men ran youtube ads so they can provide for their family for youtube at so they they would run youtube ads to like create a business and their internship was they became part of the program and then ran youtube ads for them um and uh he used to say he had too many leads because like who the hell is like, you know, speaking to Muslim men trying to make more money

and provide for their family on YouTube, you know? And he was just like, I have too many leads. And at that point I was like, like, holy, that's like a really good problem to have. So sometimes it's good to go a little specific, I guess. I think it's good to go specific, but I think it should be authentic. Yeah.

Because a lot of these young cats just try to come in. They're like, I'm going to go into this, do this e-commerce. I'm going to go on Pinterest or Etsy. And it's like, have you done this yourself? And they're like, no, I just think it's a good way. So if you have the experience, obviously you've done something yourself, then it's good to hone in and be specific. I like saying authority, either having a large social media following or being into something that's very specific, like a blue ocean market.

If you layer those three or at least have one of those, you have the ability to scale. And that's what I like seeing in different businesses. Yeah. Kind of like understand their numbers, where they're at, so on and so forth. I love that. I went through your YouTube. I pulled a couple interesting questions from there.

So do you believe loyalty can be taught or is it something you're born with? I believe both in a way. I believe somebody can almost have this loyalty and it can get taught through experiences. But from a perspective of me trying to hire somebody, what I typically see is if I were to make this like in this type of perspective in my own life of what I'm looking for, I believe that as a person who is hiring a team member or a sales rep for an offer,

I always make sure that I look for the first call if that person is loyal or not throughout questions that challenge their character or if there are different things that just don't add up. Meaning like if I say like, why'd you get off this offer? And they're like, well, something happened and then maybe I know about the offer, it didn't line line up or i really just try to have an eye for is this person gonna me or not to be honest and i found that i've gotten better at it um there's people who still have

their selfish intentions you can't control that but um even in the first like couple weeks if things don't really add up or if they're not really like doing their eod reports or it's just things seem fishy i just rather just not have them part of the team because if you have one bad apple that can kind of just spread into the oh yeah you want to have a good culture of people who are hungry loyal authentic um i've had times where wherever i go even now you know i have sales people just always follow me um i have the, I guess, I wouldn't say privilege, but I'm fortunate that I have a lot of different sales reps in my past who are really, we've created a strong bond, like a brotherhood,

where since they're in all these different agencies, even if not working with them or not, if I ask them for a sales rep, I just pretty much post a thread, and they post it into their Discord, discord telegram of the actual sales agency and that's how i get all the best sales reps because i just shoot them a text can you do this for this offer and they just post it i literally did this morning and i got like 15 messages for a server that we need that's dope so um i think if i were to show loyalty to them they show it to me um it builds that trust and i think now it's really paying off because if i go to an offer the biggest leverage that i have is i can say i know the top four or five

sales agency spaces um and i can you know i can make sure that i can get the best reps out of those people right yeah i love what you said about the bad apple the toughest fire i had to make was a couple years ago with my marketing agency he was bringing in the most sales by five x but he was so negative yeah in a group chat one-on-one texts and uh it was a tough decision but i had to fire yeah sometimes you have that i had a closer who was he never wanted to be part of the team meetings he always complained but he was the best sales rep there and you kind of know you have to let that person go right but then you kind of rationalize i'm talking to myself when i say you know so like internally you're like ah you know the money the money right it's like oh it's

like but it ends up reoccurring and now i've learned that if i get that hint once i'm already debating closer to letting them go if i get it twice i'm like that's a guaranteed you know reason as to why i should let them go because it's only going to persist right it's gonna it's gonna spread a little bit it's gonna create that you know that culture that you know you don't really want and uh um it's better to have somebody that you can train up into that position who has a better character and agreed yeah it was tough but i think it was the right move honestly yeah i mean it always um long term you look back and you can actually start sensing, that helps because people talk about culture, but I feel like culture is something that is this presence.

It's not really something tangible, but you can feel it when you're on meetings and stuff like that. I've always had it where it spreads. I'd rather just not cut it, to be honest. You also made a video about dealing with clients that have an ego. What's the approach there? I've always had it where it spreads. So I'm just like, I'd rather just not to be honest. Cut it immediately. You also made a video about dealing with clients that have an ego. What's the approach there? Yeah, so I always like saying BS to BS, right? They know it's a sales call.

They know they don't want to open up. They know they're being a hard, they know they want to open up, right? So I always say, well, if they're going to do that, and there's other examples with objection handling, but this is in the discovery, they're going to not open up. You're asking the questions are like, what do you mean? Why not? Why am I getting asked all these questions? Bro, you know, it's a sales call. Like you signed up for this, like you got qualified, you put in your form or whatever.

So an easy way to do that is not try to challenge people like, you know, in a way where you're doing ego versus ego, because that's like two bulls just fighting. You're never going to get anywhere. Right. So I always say take the under kind of act confused, in a way where you're doing ego versus ego, because that's like two bulls just fighting, you're never going to get anywhere, right? So I always say take the under, kind of act confused, have a cure stone, just be like, well, you know, I just don't really know how to help you, to be honest, right? That type of tonality. And, and it's because I don't really know, like, if there's any problems. And because of that, I just feel like it's probably just not a good fit, because I just don't know how to help you. Right. So now you're kind of like you're BSing their BS because they know they're not opening up.

Now you kind of put it on them because they know that, you know, you asked them this question and presented this type of frame. And they have two options. One, they can know, well, I actually am not opening up and I still want this. It's just my ego that's overcoming me to open up right and their response could be like i'm sorry they might not say i'm sorry they might say yeah i mean honestly what's going on is that that done they you know talk about why they're on the call or they say yeah i just actually don't think it's a i don't think it's a good fit and you already know based on that that you should cut the you know the call short because do you want that person

as a client right and instead of wasting another 30 minutes to like pitch the program go over objection you're just gonna you know you know put yourself in a wall but i i don't mind that because that person's probably gonna be a future refund or chargeback because they're just they have a high ego they're gonna complain so on and so forth yeah you don't want those chargebacks because then you'll lose the payment process yeah exactly and i heard in the coaching space they're going to complain so on and so forth yeah you don't want those chargebacks because then you'll lose the payment process yeah exactly and i heard in the coaching space they're pretty high numbers yeah yeah i mean one of the biggest things that i've um two things that has helped overturn that is you want to have a strong agreement form right so i always make sure that

after they pay the invoice immediately after go on whatever doc you sign or whatever portal that you used to sign you know but a lot of times they say well you're gonna get this email and then you're gonna get access to the course and they have logins to both and or access to you know sign the agreement and sometimes they never do that i like making sure that you answer all the questions on the call if there's another call it doesn't matter you're saving yourself a chargeback or a future refund um get them on a call answer those specific questions and make sure that in the actual agreement, you know that the person agrees to actually say they're going to pay and there's not going to be any chargeback.

Literally has to be in writing. I will not charge back based on X, Y, and Z. So then you can overturn that when you have to go through a case. And then two, I always want to make sure that, let's say for e-commerce or fitness or affiliate, whatever, that you ask them the right questions for them to be successful. Do you have two or three hours a day to do this? If they're being a hard a**, I'd rather not sell that client.

I'd rather just say, just give them the refund now because it's going to be a future chargeback. So having a contractual agreement to make sure that they sign up on the call, to make sure they sign that after they pay, and also making sure that you know internally that they are actually a good fit always reduces that amount to make sure that you don't have to have chargebacks and you're and you kind of go to different yeah that's a whole story in itself you know that's that ends up i haven't gone through that but i know that ends up becoming a big problem yeah that's smart i haven't gone through a chargeback yet with this

yeah yeah i mean i i mean bro you provide a lot of yeah yeah um yeah so i think if you're providing just value in general you won't have to worry about that as much 100 i mean um you know i always believe that the best programs out there to i mean the real secret to really scale is to have maybe 25 to 50 of your sales coming in on the front end from like social media ads. But if you have your results down to a T and you know actually, you know, if it's a 16 week program every month, you track the data, what gets them successful.

Then you have coaches to monitor that and you have the real data with that. And the real secret to scale beyond that is not trying to sell so many units on the front end but understand that you can sell a higher ticket or can you know continuation offer on the back end that that same offer we're running igdm ads for the past two months we had a zero percent refund rate wow meaning like and we have 10 coaches over a thousand clients that come in over time and so we're selling around like 80 units, like per month, we're going to scale that with the team and everything.

But now we've created a 5k mastermind and now we're kind of getting to the point where we're not trying to sell, you know, this type of offer. Cause it's a fitness office. It's 2k, 3k. So to really pass,

and you can do this in e-commerce affiliate. If you get the results and you understand what you can track to get the results, then you increase the lifetime value, the LTV, by making sure that you can just, I would prefer selling 50% on back end. And that way you can have four or 500K on the front end and another 500K easy on the back end as well. That's kind of currently where I'm at, kind of taking it from like 300, 500K to kind of like that. Yeah, no, that's great. Great to see that perspective.

I had Vic Keller on here yesterday who's probably almost a billionaire he sold his company to warren buffett he buys a ton of companies and he was saying the same thing he cares more about recurring revenue yeah than people that rely on the funnel yeah because the funnel could go away 100 facebook ads could raise their price something unexpected could happen which they've done many times yeah so he likes people that have that recurring money yeah and what i've noticed as well uh even on the front end you could have different tiers right so like i know uh in in a specific industry they were doing around like almost seven figures per month selling something that's two or three k when most of the ticket price is around five to six k even 10k that for me broke my belief saying why don't I just create a smaller offer for two or three K

because people actually want to buy that. So on the front end, you can have different offers that don't always cater to the main program that you want once you already have a foundation built. So there's another offer within the same industry where they're selling like a $500 to a thousand dollar course through the DMS directly. And so on my end, I think you can maximize that by having different, you know, they call it the value lab, different tiers of the prices. And on the back end, once you already sold a, you know, a customer or client, you can always upsell, cross sell,

downsell, and the more you become more creative in that way, then you can make sure you can squeeze that out as well. Absolutely. So eventually once there's a foundation, I like squeezing out the front end and I like squeezing out the back end as well. Yeah, I love that. Dennis, it's been a pleasure, man. squeezing out the front end and I like squeezing out the back end as well. Yeah. I love that.

Dennis, it's been a pleasure, man. Where can people find you and where can people work with you up? Yeah. Um, at, uh,

Ig at Dennis, the heads. A lot of people like saying the he's on YouTube as well. Yeah. I'm starting to put some more videos. Honestly, just put, um,

you know, everything I'm doing every single day there. Perfect. We'll link it in the video. Thanks for coming on brother. Yeah, man. Likewise. Thanks for watching guys as always always and we'll see you next time