Digital Social Hour - From Last Pick to Elite: How I Became a Top Ultra Runner | Harvey Lewis DSH #950

Episode Date: December 5, 2024

From last pick to elite ultra runner: Harvey Lewis's incredible journey 🏃‍♂️💪 Discover how persistence and dedication transformed him into a top athlete! Learn about the mental and physical challenges of running 100+ mile races, vegan nutrition for endurance, and pushing beyond perceived limits. 🌱🏆 Harvey shares mind-blowing stories from Death Valley's Badwater 135, the Barkley Marathons, and setting a world record running for 4.5 days straight! 🤯 Packed with valuable insights on training, recovery, and the power of mindset. Don't miss out on this inspiring conversation that proves anyone can achieve greatness with the right attitude! 🙌 Tune in now for an eye-opening look at the world of ultra running and life lessons that apply far beyond the trail. Watch now and subscribe for more insider secrets on the Digital Social Hour with Sean Kelly! 🎙️ Hit that subscribe button to join our community of go-getters and adventure seekers. 🚀 #injuryprevention #strengthtrainingforrunners #davidgoggins #trailrunning #trainingessentialsforultrarunning #lifesetbacks #motivation #spiritualawakening #trailrunning #ultrarunning CHAPTERS: 00:00 - Intro 01:03 - Love for Running 03:29 - Training for 100 Mile Race 05:00 - BetterHelp 10:47 - Is Running Bad for You? 12:52 - VO2 Max and Longevity 18:00 - Seed Oils 22:18 - Running Rivalries 24:59 - Fitness Impact on Mindset 26:50 - Las Vegas Running Scene 27:50 - Running Form and Shoes 30:27 - Injury Prevention Tips 34:23 - Races Not Finished 37:50 - Barkley Marathons Overview 41:17 - Swimming for Runners 42:50 - Teaching Techniques 44:25 - Education Insights 48:58 - Evaluating Teachers Effectively 51:38 - Public Education Challenges 53:00 - Standardized Testing Issues 56:32 - Badwater 135 Race Experience APPLY TO BE ON THE PODCAST: https://www.digitalsocialhour.com/application BUSINESS INQUIRIES/SPONSORS: [e-mail] GUEST: Harvey Lewis https://www.instagram.com/harveylewisultrarunner SPONSORS: BetterHelp: https://www.betterhelp.com/DSH LISTEN ON: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/digital-social-hour/id1676846015 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5Jn7LXarRlI8Hc0GtTn759 Sean Kelly Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seanmikekelly/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Gambling problem? For free assistance call the Connex Ontario Helpline at 1-866-531-2600. BenMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. With Uber Reserve, you can book your Uber ride in advance. 90 days in advance. Perfect for all you forward thinkers and planning gurus. Reserve your Uber ride up to 90 days in advance. Uber Reserve. See Uber app for details. 14 actually 13 jumped into a marathon when I was in high school and that moment just really because I've discovered that if you're persistent you can do anything on this planet

all right guys Harvey Lewis here today been to 107 countries right yes yes it's been an amazing adventure my life ran hundreds of miles in all of them I assume right? Yeah well not all of them but I've seen some places and I was talking to your wife out in the lobby I mean we're like sharing some stories about Bolivia and La Salta de Uyuni. Yeah. Your fiance I'm sorry. Right yeah yeah getting married next year so. That's exciting. Yeah pretty much my wife at this point. Yeah I'm sorry. Right. Yeah. Yeah getting married next year. So that's exciting. Yeah Yeah, I just got married myself. Oh my fiance before my wife We were together for ten years. So how long you guys been together seven years seven years. Yeah, very similar very similar Yeah, so what drew you to love running so much man. I start off and I was like the

very running so much. Man, I start off and I was like the very last person to ever be picked on teams when I was growing up. I was like chunking goonies. And somewhere it hit me that I just started running for training for football. And I end up going out for the football team and being like third string defensive tackle. I like the training in the all the fitness elements to it and pushing myself. So this is back when I was like 15 14 actually 13 and I like jumped into a marathon when I was

in high school and that moment just really changed my life because I've discovered that so much in this world is a matter of how much persistence you have. And if you're persistent, you can do anything on this planet. Nice, so you liked the results you saw from your training and your persistence? Yeah, I mean, I was still finishing

towards the back of the pack. Oh really, so at 15 you weren't? Yeah, yeah, I never won a race in high school. Whoa. In fact, I normally finish towards the back. And pack. Oh really? So at 15 you weren't? Yeah, yeah. I never won a race in high school. Whoa. In fact, I normally finished towards the back. And when I ran the marathon, it took me five years to break five hours. Damn.

A marathon. So you had terrible genetics. Yeah, well, I wouldn't say I had terrible genetics, but I would say I didn't have, I didn't like have the formula. Okay. And I've learned the formula across decades. Got it.

Because now people are running marathons in like 2 and 1 half hours, right? Oh, faster than that. The world record is like two hours and two minutes. Holy crap. It's like, yeah, it's pretty incredible. I mean, they just keep on pushing it lower and lower. But yeah, I got into running pretty young.

And I discovered ultras when I was actually 19 years of age. And I've been doing ultras for now 20, 28 years. So an ultra is two marathons, right? And an ultra is any race further than a marathon. Oh, further than a marathon. So, I mean, in this country, they've exploded. So, I mean, when I first started ultras back in the 90s There were fewer than like 5% of the people doing them today. So it's it's grown by like

Exponentially and now there's like you have hundred mile races. You have 200 mile races you have Backyard ultras that go have no finish line. You keep going to the last person standing. That's cool. Yeah. I love the sport because it really brings you to, it removes all the layers that we have. And it gets you to your inner core. You discover what your purpose is, what your why is. I feel like a closeness with like, when you're in that moment of like complete and utter

like challenge and sometimes people will refer to it as like suffering or pain. I don't really like to think of it that way. But it really causes you to to dig into your inner side and think about what is important in the world to you. Wow. Yeah, because you're on your own. It's a very individual sport. It is.

It is and it isn't. There are times where you have a crew, and your crew is your team. They basically, for example, in Death Valley, I run a race that Goggins popularized called Badwater 135. You basically run 135 miles from the Badwater Basin to the portal Mount Whitney. And you have a crew that follows you every mile, like in a vehicle or mile or two, and they hand off like ice or drinks.

And so I mean, without that crew, like you wouldn't be able to like survive. That'd be tough, right? Because that's six marathons. Yeah, yeah. So it's like a lot of times there is a crew. Kick off an exciting football season with Bet MGM, an official sports book partner

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Ready for another season of gridiron glory? What are you waiting for? Get off the bench, into the huddle, and head for the end zone all season long. Visit betmgm.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older. Ontario only. Please gamble responsibly. Gambling problem?

For free assistance call the Connex Ontario Helpline at 1-866-531-2600. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. With Uber Reserve, good things come to those who plan ahead. Family vacay? Reserve your ride as soon as you book your flights. To all the planners, now you can reserve your Uber ride up to 90 days in advance. See Uber app for details. This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp.

Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com slash DSH and get on your way becoming your best self. My fiance Ariel plays a big role in my mental health, helping me realize my true potential. Everyone's trying their best around you so take time to appreciate someone close to you. I've tried therapy in the past and it helped me go through some tough times

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with the freedom to switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Visit betterhelp.com slash dsh to get 10% off your first month. That's better help. H e l p.com slash dsh. Check them out now. Other times you have even like teammates like I've been on the USA team for the 24 hour race where you're running for 24 hours. I've done that five times and I've been on the USA team for the 24 hour race, where you're running for 24 hours, I've done that five times. And I've been on the backyard, in the backyard World Championship team, five times for the USA. So for that, like the last one we did, I ran like 316 miles, I had teammates we were, I was pacing our teammates.

They were each supporting each other with positive energy. And sometimes someone would be just falling back and falling asleep as they're running. And I'd have to grab them and say, we're going, man. So it's not always an individual sport. Wow. You have races where you are teamed up with people too. 316 miles.

You ran that and how long? That race is a race where you have to do 4.167 miles every hour. So it adds up to 100 miles every day. And so that was like three days and four hours. Yeah, but my best was last year I ran and set the world record of or the on the biggest course for running four and a half days. 450 miles. And it was a really, I mean, you know, the UFC fighting gets a lot of attention. But honestly I'd say like, ultras are even, could be even more badass

and require more toughness than even surviving like in UFC. Because with that, I mean, you're running like nonstop practically. If you finish your loop within your 4.167 miles faster than an hour, you have whatever time that is to this. So you might get like, if you finish in like 50 minutes, you get 10 minutes to like lay down, to like eat whatever you can,

and then restart the loop at the top of the hour. And like, I mean, you lose toenails, you have blisters that you have to like, sometimes pierce. You have to fight through sleep deprivation. For that race, I didn't sleep for the first three days. And then the fourth day, I was like, fourth night, I started sleeping like just like one minute, two minutes, because I was finishing my laps with 55 minutes, only had five minutes to reset and get going again. Holy crap. So it was really wild.

And there were 75 other people that were like world or they were champions of their own countries who didn't want to give up either. So it was like a wild experience like last person standing. I mean, people were going to like the point where they just were total fatigued and they couldn't walk back to their tent. Like it's really wild because you get into like this mental aspect of your mind and your body and you're able to push beyond where you think you could.

Like, and so much limits us by what we think we can do versus what we actually can do. We are our greatest strength and our greatest challenge. If we believe we can't do something, that's the heart of it. You're never going to be able to do it. But with that particular race, I always focus only on the lap I'm on.

And I never think, oh, I've got 200 more miles to go. I just focus on doing that very lap I'm on. And I never think like, oh, I've got 200 more miles to go. Like I've just focused on like doing that very lap I'm on and that's it. Wow. And eating a lot of food. Yeah, I bet. You gotta eat a ton of food. So you were just staying in the present.

Just staying in the present. Cause if you thought about the 200 miles you had to run, you probably would have gone crazy. No, you have to really break it down into like that particular hour. Like you just have to focus on like down into like that that particular hour. Like you just have to focus on like the next tree, the next mile. You can't prevent early mornings, but you can help prevent certain HPV related cancers with Gardasil 9.

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or visit getg9.ca today. Focus on what are you excited about when you get to the finish of that lab? And it's simple, simple, stupid stuff. I'm excited I'm going to get some Coca-Cola. I'm excited I'm going to get some ice. You drank Coca-Cola? Yeah, I mean, I do during the race.

Yeah, it's really lots of calories, caffeine. I usually don't drink it until the second day, because I don't want to use any caffeine the first night. I won't make it through like the second day because I don't want to like use any caffeine the first night Like okay make it through the first night without any caffeine and then like the second third fourth night beyond Like having some caffeine is helpful So I like to mix up my drinks like I have like probably a dozen different drinks. I like to have But it's one I have That's impressive man, and you won that race at 48. I'm assuming a lot of the competition was younger than you, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I won the race at 48. And you know, I think it is really interesting. Like one of the statements you said, go for it. You remember what you said in the lobby? Oh, is running this much bad for you because you're running hundreds of miles. Is that actually bad for the body? Right. Well, no. I would say yes, that you can accomplish. And actually, what you were saying in the lobby, you were saying is running bad for you, like, period. And I would say a lot of people don't understand.

They assume that running is bad for you. But running it can be excellent for you. But running can be excellent for you. But it depends where you're at. So I mean, for me, I don't have any pains at all. And that's kind of crazy. I'm 48, and I just ran like 316 miles a few weeks ago. Yesterday I ran up and down a mountain in Death Valley. I ran twice yesterday.

I ran this morning, like 10k in Vegas. I don't have any aches on my body, none. And so much of it has to do with what I eat, also what I do with my recovery. And those are huge elements. So for ultras, on the other hand, I'd say, yeah, if you're running like 1,000 miles, it might not be the greatest thing.

You could achieve the same goals by going out and running 5, 10k, 20k, a half marathon. Absolutely. Even running one or two miles are amazing. But I think number one is just movement. People need movement in their body. Finding something that you enjoy doing, that you're passionate about, is critical,

whether that's swimming, yoga, walking. So yeah, it's not like I expect. I'm trying to think everyone should be a runner. Not at all. But running also can be good for you if you take good care of your body, in terms of what you're eating, in terms of doing other things in addition to running.

You can do amazing stuff with running. Well, there's a lot of evidence that your VO2 max levels coordinate with longevity these days. Yeah, yeah. Well, I have a friend who's 102, Mike Fremont, and we met Ronnie. And he's still, he is 102. So he was running really up to 100.

The last couple of years, his run is more of a walk. But we still say we're going out for a run. And it's pretty impressive that he's able to do that. A lot of it for me, honestly, has been my nutrition. So I eat all vegan foods. I've been doing that since I've been vegetarian since 1996. Wow. Yeah.

And I heard one year recent guest. Billy Carson. Yeah. He said a vegan diet almost killed me. And I was like, that just drives me crazy. Because honestly, in America today, really our obsession with like animal protein and also like sugary foods is really what's killing Americans. And so from, I feel like people ought to really do their own research and get more into it, looking at like

actually quality sources of evidence. And I don't expect every American to become a vegan, but the big deal is, is that if you can like move your nutrition more in that direction, so maybe like every morning for breakfast, like my friend Jesse Itzler, he only has like fruits, like simple like plant-based things at the beginning of the day, all the way up through midday. Or incorporate a couple days a week

where you're eating something vegan. Or like just looking at what you're eating in terms of what your nutrition is. Is like, if you are eating meat, like are you eating, is that your main go-to in your plate? It's kind of interesting because in America we've been so conditioned through like the media or not the media but like marketing to think that we need to have some meat with every meal. Right. And it's like there's a lot of inflammation with like dairy for example.

The dairy industry has I'm a teacher and like even in schools, you can't even serve a plant-based milk because of the influence of the dairy industry on the USDA. Yes. So I mean, there's some really big shifts that I hope are going to be happening also in schools. But you're seeing in the grocery store, half of the possible things that people are drinking now are like oat milk,

almond milk, and it makes up almost half of like what is sold in the in the grocery store today. And like when people start thinking about it like and learning more about what really does this milk is designed to make a small calf you know a animal. And you can get the same benefits of like oat milk by drinking like it has like the same proteins, calcium, vitamin D, those kinds of things. And you don't get the inflammation that you get in the dairy. So I mean, I started this in the 90s. And I'm seeing a major shift in the last 25 years in our country and around the world. Yeah, so it's nice to see that from my vantage point. But then I also hear your guests coming on and saying,

I think that probably what happened, a lot of people, they may just eat only. I've never heard anyone having any issue unless they're not eating enough calories or they're only eating like cheese pizza at every meal. So if you're not diversifying yourself to a degree or educating yourself with anything, you could have not do as well as you would do otherwise.

Yeah, I was reading the comments. That one really blew up. Had like 8,000 comments, 10 million views. But yeah, he travels a lot, so it could have been just an issue of it's hard to eat healthy when you're traveling too. Yeah, and so that's one of the things when I think really helps actually also when you're dedicated to eating a certain way.

And nutrition for me, like traveling, I traveled to 107 countries. And what I do is I always bring a couple of snacks with me in my bags. And then it also causes causes me to like, search out better foods. So for example, when I was in the Azores, I was on this small little island. And like the first place I went into all they had was like burgers and fries. And I like pulled up on my phone. I'm like, I'm not gonna eat this stuff. Obviously, there's no nothing I can eat here.

So it caused me to go to another place, which was like a kilometer away. And they had amazing vegetable soup and some vegetable paninis and all sorts of great things that I wouldn't have gotten had I just been lazy about or hadn't been focused or dedicated to nutrition. So it's like it causes you to, you learn a lot. I mean, there's a lot of like, there's a lot of,

it's far more easier today than it ever was before. But when you dedicate yourself to it, you start to like, you find where these things are. There's all, there's apps, there's all kinds of ways. Sea-Dwell Scouts, a good app. I love that up Yeah, have you seen that one? No, so it tells you if the restaurant is using seat oils or not. Really? Yeah Yeah, I've only heard a little I saw a billboard up yesterday. Oh, they had a billboard

Yeah, some something was a billboard about the seed oil. Oh, I saw that one. Yeah in Vegas. Yeah, that Mexican restaurant Yeah, are you big on seat walls? Like do you have a penny? No, I'm not Yeah, that Mexican restaurant. Are you big on seed oils? Do you have an opinion on that? No, I'm not. The only thing I've personally saw some stuff on online about seed oils in relationship to the sun. Oh, sunburn, right?

Sunburn. I don't know if you have anything to add about that. No, I've seen that. Yeah, if you eat seed oils, there's a greater chance you get sunburn, basically. Something like that. I can relate to that. I mean, I used to get sunburned a lot

when I was eating really bad. So maybe there's something to it, but who knows? I don't know. Yeah, it's just one of those things, like I feel like there needs to be some research. People need to look at legitimate sources. And with seed oils, like I don't think that like I definitely like think that there's some benefits or disadvantages

and looking at that. But but like, yeah, I saw a lot of misinformation online about, well, people get skin cancer because of like seed oils, or something like that. And I just feel like that's something that is important to like, you'll look at the science behind. Yeah. And like, yeah. So I mean, I, I go to a dermatologist and like, you know, we, I personally, I'm in the sun, like in like, for example, death Valley, all this sun exposure. And I feel it's really important to also just be mindful to cover up from the sun. I mean, I still get out there.

I love the sun, but I also don't be oblivious to that the sun does cause cancer to people. I mean, if you're in Australia, you're gonna get really messed up. Oh man, I went there and my skin was peeling off my face. Seriously. Yeah, I was getting wrecked. Yeah, I didn't even think about that.

But you're in the sun all day. You got guys like Brian Johnson staying inside all day because he's scared of the damage from the sun. Have you seen any sun damage from your dermatologist? Yes. Yeah, I actually got skin cancer. Oh, you did? Yeah, last year.

Damn. I had melanoma, or actually last spring. spring and I had it removed so it's fine But I was really surprised because I'm someone who's like darker complexion. Yeah, I like get dark very easily and But I never have been really focused on like wearing covering up like, you know, it's like no big deal I like would go to the beach. I went wear sunblock Yeah, I go out running. I wouldn't purposely try to get a loss on, but I also wouldn't avoid it. I mean, even when I was younger, I

can remember going in and tanning a couple of times, just like I said. Oh, the tanning ban? Yeah, I mean, I think it's stupid now. Yeah, yeah. But I was like 23, whatever. I was like, oh, yeah, I'm just, yeah, that's so stupid. Being tanning was attractive at that age.

It was attractive. And now, I'm so stupid. Being 10 was like attractive at that age. It was attractive. And it's like now, it's like I'm so much more aware of that. It's like it makes so much sense to just cover up. Like wear a hat. Wear a shirt. I'm not always wear a shirt. I mean, I went out running yesterday morning without my shirt on.

But once it gets to a certain time of the day, like 9 or 10, I'm going to cover up. And it's just being like, again, like critical of like what you see and like look at the actual evidence from like university research, that type of thing, versus just believe in somebody you hear say something. Well, social media makes it easy to see all these opinions these days. Absolutely. Right? Yeah. You got Dave Asprey saying, oat milk is terrible for you, almond milk is terrible for you, there's mold in coffee. And you see that clip and it's easy to just believe it and see the comments. Yeah, and I wonder like what the motivation is of some of the people that spread this

stuff that's- A lot of them have their own products. Yeah. So that's definitely a motivation. There could be some- I think some people genuinely want to help. Like I like Huberman's podcast. Yeah, like Huberman. Absolutely. I think some people genuinely want to help. I like Huberman's podcast. Yeah, like Huberman, absolutely.

I think he has a very strong reputation overall. Yeah, but when I do see them have a product on the back end, I keep that in my head. I'm like, all right. Absolutely. They're going to say whatever. You have to be discerning. Yeah, that's so powerful.

Yeah, you got to trust the research, man. You got any rivalries in this sport? You probably race against the same people all the time. Yeah, absolutely. But they're like friendly rivalries in this sport? You probably race against the same people all the time. Yeah, you know, absolutely. But they're like friendly rivalries. So I mean, going back across, it's kind of crazy. I've been running ultras for like three decades. And I've hit my peak literally in just the last five years.

Whoa. Yeah, the last three years, I was ranked the top 10 ultra runners in North America. And it's kind of wild because I never came close to that in my 20s or my 30s But it was just like continual like perseverance like continually developing myself learning Like how to train smarter? Yeah, like the nutrition aspect all that contributed But my rivals are also my friends.

It's like you can't reach your pinnacle without having people that challenge you, beat you, and then you have to come back and try to beat them. It makes you a better athlete. Absolutely. So are you the only vegan in the top 10? No. Jim Walmsley is number one in the country, and he's a vegan.

Wow. Yeah. So it's not like it's some rarity. In fact, within ultra running, I'd say probably 15% of the runners in the top level are vegans or vegetarians. Absolutely. Wow. Yeah.

There's a guy named Andrew Glaze. He literally runs 100 miles a week. He's done this for like four or five years and he's vegan. Damn. Like one of things is like recovery time. So like like I said yesterday I ran you know I went to Death Valley. I went out to the bad war basin and like most of people they're getting out of their cars and they're walking out like maybe a half mile and then turn around getting back in their car. I run all the way out to the middle of that salt pan. And then I'm going to run back.

That's what I did. Before I go to bed, I ran up a mountain Saturday night. Right before bed? Yeah, right before I go to bed. Isn't your heart rate still going afterwards? No, I calmed down. OK. Yeah, it's just natural.

It's become ingrained into my habits. It's like, I run twice a day, like, every day. And I know people that are ultra runners, like my friend, Ed Rizzo, he's like 86. I met him at my first ultra. He's still doing this, like, at 86. Like, still, like, he's not doing 100 miles, but he's like 50 miles. Yeah, so it's,

it's quite amazing what you are capable of. If you don't abuse your body, like with, you know, other things, like, I mean, you see it every day, right? So yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's there, It's, it's, it's, it's there. It has like, I think my experience can be impactful to anyone listening to the show, because you can always get better at whatever you're doing. It's like, Dave Ramsey, he talks about is never too late to start investing. I mean, you could be 70 years of age. And like, you may be a smoker, you may be a drinker, you may be someone who never gets out and exercises. You could like change your life dramatically by changing some of those habits today. And also by like integrating some sort of fitness into your like your lifestyle. Right. And it's like the impacts, I hear people say all kinds of excuses, it's like they don't want to do it,

but it's like they don't realize, it's not just you're gonna live longer, it's like the quality of your years, what you're gonna experience with the time you have here, and how you're gonna feel. Every aspect of your life will feel more energized. And you'll feel just better physically, mentally, spiritually, by engaging in these activities 100% on days

I work out, I can notice the difference of my mind. Right? Like I am way more optimized. Yeah, it's absolutely huge. Yeah, it's like, I wish, it's like I wish I could have a couple of days with every person I see that I want to wrestle them into a different direction. 100%. Yeah, because there's a lot of mental health. I'm sure you're seeing it because you're a teacher, right?

I am a teacher. So you might see it with your students. Yes. But if they just worked out more, got outside of nature, I'm sure that would help them a little bit. With your students. Yes. But if they just worked out more, got outside in nature, I'm sure that would help them a little bit. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Like, we can be in some stale environments. And it's like being in Vegas. I have this love-hate relationship with Vegas. I absolutely feel elated when I arrive in Vegas. And I typically head out to Henderson and then I head out to like one of the national parks near here or some wild place. And I like certain things. I mean, I love that they have the shows here.

But and I love that like there's a lot of really good vegan restaurants in Vegas. Really? One of my favorite cities. That's surprising because we're in a desert. Yeah, no, it's like, Tacotarian is incredible. If you've ever eaten at Tacotarian, it's like, Tacotarian is incredible. If you've ever eaten at Tacotarian, it's amazing. OK.

Yeah. I always have to make my whole food stop right on the street. I like whole foods. Yeah. So they have a lot. This is probably my favorite whole foods in the whole country. The one in Henderson?

The one right here that's on the strip. Oh, this one on the strip? Yeah, it was right up from the Luxor, and right next to the airport. I didn't know that. 0.6 miles from the airport. OK. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it was right up right up from the lock store. Wow, right next to airports. I didn't know that point six miles from the airport. Okay. Yeah, it's real nice. Check that one out. Yeah, they have a lot of options. So I mean, I have this love hate relationship. But even like staying in the hotel and the strip like yesterday is like, I

can only tar it so much time there is like they have you in prison. Like it's hard to's hard to even get out and walk around, because it's not a very walkable place, necessarily. Which hotel are you at? I was at the Treasure Island. OK. Yeah, plus the smoke from the casino. Yeah, the smoke.

And it just feels like very, it's like the furthest you could come from being in nature. It's like you're in this like it feels like Dubai Yeah, there's lights. I is like very much like we've created this artificial world and I mean, I feel like a lot of people don't spend much time outdoors or like even in like your backyard Local parks something like that. I mean that's always gonna make you feel just better 100% is always gonna make you feel better. Yeah.

I ground every day. That's sweet. Yeah, that's sweet. You know the Stanford, I don't know if they still do this, but the Stanford track and field team and the cross-country team, they used to run barefoot. Yeah. Yeah, there's been a lot of evidence that's powerful.

One of the things about running really far is you have to have good form. And so if you're running barefoot, you're likely to develop good form because you just can't do it any other way. You can't land on your heel. If you're running barefoot, you're gonna kill yourself. But you feel some of those things are masked by the fact that the shoes today, some of the shoes today have very cushioned, like lots of cushion in them. So people don't really feel that impact immediately. And then it's masked and then like a week or two weeks or like just what they're feeling in general, their

knees or back, they hurt because they're they're the way their their form is. Wow. Yeah, it's a really is a true thing. So the shoes super important done. Shoes can be really important. Yeah, I wear newtons, and I really love the Newtons, because they're like, they have cushion, but they're also designed so that you land like you're barefoot running, and you take off. So you're not landing on your heel,

and doing damage to your back and your knees. Wow, so you're not supposed to land on your heel when you're running? No. No, you're not supposed to. I'm pretty sure that's how I used to run. Yeah, that's how I used to run, too. I definitely used to run that way back in the day.

But it's true. You really want to be able to run like you would be running barefoot. So I mean, you might just try it out, run on some grass for like little 40-meter strides, 40-yard strides. That could do it, or some turf, just so it's comfortable on your feet good to know

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. What about running backwards? I had uh, what's that guy's name knees over toes guy? Okay, then Patrick Yeah, have you seen him? I have not but I've heard of people getting like world records run marathon backwards and stuff Oh, you can run a marathon back with someone I can't do that Sounds hard. Yeah, but he was basically saying walking and running backwards is good for injury prevention. Yeah. Yeah, I could see that. I mean, I don't do it.

But I could see that benefiting you, because you're kind of strengthening different muscles. Right. Well, it sounds like you're doing good with injury prevention anyways. Well, I'm always learning. That's the thing. I've learned from being being that the very bottom and like the least likely person to ever like

Succeed with running as learning is like you always listening to other people if they hear what they do and like Incorporating that into your strategies, right? So like there's something I do like I hurt my foot on the Appalachian Trail I was running the whole length of it. Did you roll it? No, I like hit like I kicked like 150 rocks. Well, like just kick them because I fell down over 100 times back in 2018. Was it steep? Yeah, a lot of places were super steep.

And like but I mean, I really did damage my foot. Like it's like splayed like this. I went to like three different podiatrists they all told me different things and finally physical therapy the key was just like reorienting my balance and like literally every day when I'm flossing my teeth after brushing my teeth I balance on one foot with my knee right raised and then I balance on the other foot like when I'm flossing my teeth so it becomes part of my daily ritual. And it's something that seems so like simple and like but it's creating like equilibrium in your body.

It's really important because a lot of times as athletes we get something like our calf muscle like or our Achilles is like hurting or something's going on and and it causes you to change your form, and then it causes some other injury somewhere else in your body. I also go to a guy that does active release therapy. So he does body work. It's kind of like a sports massage, but he is a genius. And he's very intuitive with the body.

You can absolutely tell when you have something like off Just see like a chiropractor he adjusts me but he only focuses on a specific area your body Where you're having like trouble Wow, so like if my calf muscles like if I've got some calf muscle, it's like really super tight He'll just like find the trigger points with it or break up the scar tissue. These sorts of things. It's like, it's incredible. I mean, he works on a lot of professional athletes like with the since that res and bangles in the past. It's but he also works on typical people.

I mean, there's people have gone in to see him. They were suffering from like tennis elbow or like some chronic injury for like the last 15 years. And like they leave after one or two visits and they're like, Wow, yeah, I feel totally different. And you'll find active release therapists like in every city major city in America. I need to look into that. It's very powerful. Yeah, I'd rather do that than a chiropractor because chiropractors too broad. It's like, yeah, I've only had limited experience.

I think chiropractors can be really good, too, in their own domain. It's just I've really found that this active release therapy, it's fast. I don't have to buy a big plan. You can go in and get a couple sessions, and you'll find that it's really helpful. Your body is like a car in a sense.

Would you neglect your car to take it in to have the tires rotated or oil changes, things like this? But we're very reluctant at times to go spend money on ourselves for something that really can impact our overall being for decades and how we feel. Yeah, it's super important. Have you ever had to quit a race, stop early? Yes.

Yeah, so with the last person standing race, it's basically everyone is going until they give up or they can't continue on. So that race only has one person who finishes, is a winner. And I've run like eight of those races and I've won I think three of them. Wow. Yeah so there's been others where I've not been the last person. But amongst I've run over let's see I think 106 ultras in my lifetime including like 50

races or 100 miles or more. And the one race I didn't finish was back in 2010. I didn't finish a race called the Spartan. Spartan is this epic race that goes from Athens to Sparta, and it traces the route of Fadipities. Fadipities is a famous Greek who we know the marathon modern day marathon from because he ran in like to marathon to like announce the victory. But he did this other one was 153 miles to Sparta

to try and get the Spartans to help them in the battle. And so I did this race and I didn't finish it. I made it to about 116 miles. I like had all of these forces working against me. Like our flight like had emergency landing in the UK on the way over. Yeah. People were hysterical. Like we went from like 30,000 feet to landing in like 10 minutes. Holy crap. Like the pilots, like if anyone has any laptops are on, please turn them off. Like they thought there was a fire on the flight so that I didn't get to the race until like six hours before it started and there were

some other things I ran the race too fast I was like in the lead with some Brazilian runner and I didn't pace myself so but what happened from that race is I took away a lot so it's when we get knocked down that we oftentimes learn the most. Yeah. And I learned that I never want to quit. So that's the last ultra I've ran in 2010 where it's actually like a race where there's you have a finish line that you cannot you can't like that. I didn't go to the finish line even though I had the opportunity. And really I told myself I didn't think I could make it when I got to 160 miles. And I thought I did the math in my head.

And if I would have kept going, I would have just made it after the time cut off. And I didn't want to risk, I think, failure. I was really not wanting to risk putting all that energy into it and then possibly failing despite all that energy. But I learned afterwards, I went to the finish line, I was watching these runners come in, some of them like looking as haggard

as you could ever imagine, like just with the last ounces of their energy, making it to the statue of Leonidas and touching it. And I learned in that moment, I was like, I don't ever want to quit again. So the only time I've ever, I would ever quit is if I had like a medical emergency or I get timed out. So like with the backyard ultra, I've gotten timed out.

I also do this crazy race in Tennessee called Barkley, which is like a same famous secret race, sort of secretive race that happens in Tennessee. And that race I have not finished either. So there's very few finishers of that race, only like 1% of the runners. What makes that one so difficult? You have to navigate. You have to find your way.

You find these books are hidden in the woods. What? Yeah, so you have to climb the equivalent of Mount Everest two times. And it's quite wild. Holy crap, Mount Everest. Yeah, well, you have to go up and down the equivalent of Mount Everest two times, like 67,000 feet.

You have to find books that are hidden in the woods. So there's like 12 to 14 books. It's like a scavenger hunt race. It's kind of like a scavenger hunt. There's the famous iconic race director, Les Lake, this guy with this motley beard. He's been doing this for ages. And he sets out the directions on how you,

he gives you these cryptic directions on how to find the folks. So it's like, go to the upper point. You've got to find a certain type of tree. And there's going to be a rock that's the size of a Volkswagen such and such meters away. And you got to find it underneath the edge of the rock. So I mean, it's very difficult to find.

So that sounds harder than the actual running part, just finding it. It is. It really is. And a lot of times, it's very crazy in that area of Tennessee. There's a lot of fog.'s like very crazy in like that area of Tennessee. Like there's a lot of like fog and it's, it's in like March and yeah, you're, there's only 40 competitors. Damn.

Plus the elevation is no joke. Yeah, it's no, no joke. I mean, it's basically all sorts of people have tried to run this race and including like special forces and most everyone gets really messed up. Yeah. I mean, just climbing Everest, people are out of breath. So imagine running. Yeah, but last year or this this this year in fact we had our first female finisher. Oh, yeah. Jasmine Paris. It was pretty incredible. And that's another thing within our sport is we're

seeing like women are in in many cases running equal to men or superseding them. In fact, I mentioned the Appalachian Trail. And another like ultra runner, Tara, another ultra runner, she actually got the fastest known time on the Appalachian Trail this year. Really? Yeah. Out of women and men?

Out of all men and women. Holy crap? Yeah. Out of women and men? Out of all men and women. Holy crap. Yeah, so I mean, it's pretty amazing. On my team for last person standing, we had Americans. We had 65 different countries. And one of our two finalists was a female. Interesting.

Yeah, so I mean, it's pretty amazing. When I started in this sport back in the 90s, I knew it from the beginning. I started seeing a famous runner back then with Sue Olson. And she ran in Minnesota with me. And she would win the race, beat all the men. It was pretty incredible. This was back in the 90s.

But it was only shared limited amount. That made people heard about only if you live in Minnesota. But I mean, I think that more people are hearing about like women like Courtney do Walter, you know, it's just she she did this, Fiji 100 or Mount Fuji 100 mile or this year and she came in, I think, second overall or third overall, amongst like a field of like hundreds of people. So yeah, so much is in your mind, your mental capacity, your mental mindset. And gender has less of an advantage

the further you go in these races. That's really interesting. I wonder what's going on there. Because yeah, the sprints men are obviously better. But as it goes on, I guess the playing field gets more equal, huh? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That's interesting. Yeah, as well. Have are obviously better. But as it goes on, I guess the playing field gets more equal, huh? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

That's interesting. Yeah, it's wild. Have you done an Ironman? Yeah. Yeah, I've done a couple Ironman. It was kind of, I like the aspect of changing what you're doing. You know, like I like the swimming.

The swimming is my worst event in the world. That one scares me the most out of the three. Yeah, is that right? The swimming part. I look ridiculous when I'm in the pool sometimes. But actually, that was the part of the race I enjoyed the most. The swimming. The swimming aspect.

Even though I'm traditionally known as a runner, I loved being out. If you're out in open water and you're swimming, it's very liberating. It feels very free. So I really love getting out. An ideal place would be Lake Tahoe like imagine being swimming in that that beautiful water Where your is crystal clear or like in Greece like if you're out swimming between islands. I've been there. Yeah, it's beautiful

It's beautiful. Yeah, it's so incredible. Yeah, that's unbeatable. It's so amazing I did this adventure where you you swim between the islands Wow Yeah, it was so cool And I'm not a very fast swimmer my cousin like was having to go back and forth back and forth Like in front of me waiting for me But I think that's the thing is being open to doing new things and also growing like don't be stagnant like always researching finding new new ways that like improve yourself The people probably listening to your podcast like to do. It's a big aspect of what I believe in. Yeah, I love that, man.

Mindset's important. Yeah, yeah. And with teaching, it's another thing I try to really instill in my students. I think with teaching today, I don't only think about my curriculum. I think with teaching today is like, I don't only think about like my curriculum, like I think about character as well. And also about like a million other topics like health

and trying to really help kids to like, you know, grow into like whatever dreams they wish to pursue. But I mean, like there was a guest I was on the show, like recently, I don't know you maybe can like help me with their name. I just happened to catch it. And they were like, they said something like, I think I wrote down here is like, what schools are teaching lies about America. I was like, what in the world is this person talking

about? Did you do you know I'm talking about a few guests. Yeah, it was like the guests in the last couple weeks, it was someone said something like bash and education. I was like, man, you know, most of the teachers in this country would die for their students, literally die for their students. I mean, you look at like, and, and education is not perfect. Like it absolutely isn't. We could absolutely grow. But there are a lot of positive things that are happening in education in this country.

Amongst every single student I have, I don't have a single student that I don't like love. Really? Absolutely. I mean, I have some that give me a little extra edges, but I absolutely love one of my students. And like my class today is as incredible as any class I've ever had

my lifetime. What are you teaching? I teach financial literacy and AP government. Okay, government government is an AP government on my primary like classes. Interesting. I was teaching financial literacy up to last year. But like the curriculum, for example, that's all adopted by the state government. And so I mean, we've had some real benefits that COVID was a really rough time, no doubt about that. And it was difficult teaching as well, because you can't really get the same effect of teaching online, personally, I feel, as you do in person. But you know

since that time, like art, I teach in a public school. In our district we have tablets for every student. We have like the technology that is available today versus where I started even in like 2001 when I started teaching, I was still using a chalkboard. It's kind of crazy that that advancement has happened in like 2001 while I started teaching, I was still using a chalkboard. Like, I mean, you know, it's kind of crazy. That advancement has happened in like 25 years to where now, you know, our kids have access to that. Our kids don't have cell phones in our classroom. Like the state of Ohio has passed legislation

so that there are no longer cell phones in the classroom. I actually like that. Yeah, I do too. Like I always had like a board where kids would just put up there when they came in a classroom anyway So what they won't be able to focus with those now We have a pouch that they put it into every day and I've not had I've had like two students challenged me on that And like that's only happened one time and then not again. So it's like Kids today are not like these dragons. Some kids, and the teachers aren't either.

I mean, although I do have a little inner dragon that I sometimes pull out when I'm like my spirit animal in these crazy races, right? But like, yeah, I mean, I'm around teachers and all my life I've taught in public schools and I start off in a school that was a really challenged school 25 years ago. The resources just weren't there. But that's another thing in our country.

Everything is really diverse in terms of resources. I teach in a public school in Cincinnati, but we have a strong tax base. If you go out to a rural county like Vinn County in Ohio, like those kids have very limited tax base. And like if you're in Kentucky, teachers make like maybe 60% of what I make because of like the way that they fund schools there.

If you go to Mississippi, it's even worse. So I mean, so much is, and it's not just about funding, obviously, but that could be part of the puzzle. And it's not just about teachers, although you may have a couple bad teachers. Yeah, that's in any industry. Any industry. But the bulk of people that are there, they're there.

I see them there every single day because they care about kids. And that's the truth. I don't doubt that. I don't doubt that most teachers want the best for their kids I think a lot of the complaints I'm seeing is the actual material that's being taught. Yeah, that's really interesting because the material By and large is being produced by the state government and like like I think the biggest critics on that are coming more from like the conservative end. And like, Ohio is a largely Republican state. Like our state government is absolutely controlled by the Republican Party at all levels. So I mean, I don't feel like that

the curriculum is particularly biased to that end or to liberal and I feel like it's, it's a fair curriculum, like I feel like it's been fair curriculum. I feel like it's been produced but I mean I'd be curious to look at what specific things that they were talking about with that but like we're studying the Constitution. We're engaged in a Constitution. We're looking at the amendments. We're not going off on some strange tangent. And even though, for example, I'm a vegan, I don't make my curriculum about veganism.

My students know I'm a vegan because I have a vegetarian club that meets once a month where we provide a potluck. And it's just a fun event. I don't talk about like veganism in class, like, you know? Like, so, and there's a way that we have with like evaluating teachers. I mean, we have that system in most states.

I remember that in my school, someone would come in like once a month. Yeah, so I mean, it's like, if you have, now it doesn't mean that there's not bad administrations. There's not people that get, I've seen crazy stories out there too, but those crazy stories I feel are the minority. Like by and large, most teachers are trying to like instill,

like follow the curriculum. And I mean, yeah, I don't know I feel like you know there's been more involvement in the last like eight years, ten years, six years in terms of like school boards like a lot of people are getting I need to go find out what's going on in the school board. There was never that before when I started teaching. It's really strange. There's been this whole push of what's being taught in the curriculum.

And I hear in Florida, they banned AP African-American history. Whoa. Yeah, did you hear that? No, I didn't hear that. So I mean, I don't understand. I feel like you can be patriotic and love this country even greater by knowing the hardships we've experienced,

by knowing about the segregation, and understanding that period of Jim Crow and how we've moved beyond that. So I don't understand how that like would injure like, you know, one of my students feelings or make one of my other students feel like a victim. You know, it's like the education I receive to are that I feel we have today is even better than it was back when I was in school. When I was in school, if you were to ask me, for example, and I'm social studies,

so I'm not talking about other subjects, but if you were to ask me about who was, I was asked by one of my neighbors about a history project for their child, and they said, I remember this question coming to me when I was a junior in high school. They said, my kid needs to do a research on african-american figure and I was like I only knew two people I was like MLK or Rosa Parks. Yeah, and like I was a junior in high school. That was it

So I feel like that education back then was much more euro centric and like today Which much more looking at sources from multiple perspectives. So I mean, that I think is important. I mean, it's important to have, to look, to fill in the story with more than just one source. It's cool to see your perspective on this, because I've never had a teacher come on

and give their perspective. I've had a lot of guests criticize the public education system yeah to be fair those people are entrepreneurial in nature they're not really meant to fit in the public education system to begin with yeah you know what I mean and I love entrepreneurship like see I also financial literacy after the Great Recession like the state of Ohio adopted curriculum for financial literacy so we actually teach financial

literacy and I did not get that growing up. That's cool. I didn't get that either. I didn't know about investing. I know about like. So they teach that in high school? 100%. We teach that.

I mean, I very much care about students knowing about the risk of debt. To know about like, I bring in entrepreneurs into the classroom. And I love that. Like, I love bringing those people in. And every kid in America should get access to that. So I'm not up to date on researching every single state.

So yeah, I do believe every single state must have financial literacy into their curriculum. You shouldn't be allowed to graduate high school if you don't understand compound interest and other basic models that everyone can benefit from. It's as important to your life as health, to understand your financial health. Absolutely, they're paired together.

For sure. What do you think of the SATs? And a lot of universities use that to determine if someone will get in or not, right? Yeah, we do both SAT and ACT tests. And I mean, I feel like it shouldn't be discounted. I think that there is some benefit to having ACT tests. I think they should also look at other aspects of the kids.

Look at how their grades are. Look at what kind of, were they involved with extracurriculars? Do they volunteer at all? Do they get any, do they have some strong letters of recommendation? So I feel like there's definitely a full puzzle. But I wouldn't totally eliminate testing altogether. I know a lot of teachers complain about testing.

Grading it takes a while? Well, just that we move our curriculum just towards testing. So they may say, I don't want to teach the test. But I do feel like it also, to me, is like a race. I prepare to run a race in Death Valley every July. I've done it for the last 13 years and run the bad war 135. And for me, that bad war 135 is an indicator of how I'm doing in terms of like my athleticism. So like this last summer, I didn't have my best bad war 135.

So I went back, I want to redraw what I'm doing and go back at it. And I feel like for us, with my class, we have a state test that is the last one that high school kids take. And it's on government. So it's all about the Constitution. And my kids, they've done really well on it. They perform way above the state average. And I feel like it's important for them,

because we have a goal of where we're getting to. I mean, that's not our only goal. Our goal is for you to become productive members of society to be educated on the Constitution. But also, this is one of our goals out there. We want to do well on the state test at the end. So we had like 91% passage. But I want to have

a hundred percent passage. So it's like, but I feel like, you know, the, the ACT, SAT there, there's some potential value. I'm not as familiar about the SAT as I'm the ACT. But cause I only, I went to college in state. Actually I went to Minnesota, but I only need my ACT scores for that. I want to eliminate them all together. I think they're another, they're valid, like they could be another valid point to like look at the full picture. You know?

Yeah, I can agree with that. They're so long though, four hours. Goddamn. That's true. Yeah. I mean, I'm not like, it's not like I love them. Yeah. But I also see some value.

If you didn't have any testing whatsoever, you only relied on student scores and like curriculum. I mean, I'm sorry, like extracurricular activities, like their essays, letters of recommendation. I mean, I feel like some of the students, they actually get scholarships through those tests. The high scores. Yeah.

Yeah. So I mean, I've known students that have gotten, that they come from like a disadvantaged background, that have been able to like get somewhere because of their test score. Oh, nice. So I mean, that's one other reason why I see it. But I empathize.

I mean, I don't think that should be like the whole piece. Like, OK. So I mean, that's one other reason why I see it. But I empathize. I mean, I don't think that should be like the whole piece. Like, okay, we're just gonna look at the test scores. No way. 100%. Yes, you said you had a bad race in Badwater this year, and then you ended up running it twice, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So basically I was running, like I ran this race and it's 135 miles, it's like 120 degrees and it's extremely hot. So you're just like beating your body. And normally I never get like as tired as I did this time at like about mile 35. I was just really getting dehydrated. I worked through that. Then I made it to about mile 100 some.

And I literally just staked out, which means I took a break from the race. I went and cooled off and I came back, which you're allowed to do within the rules. But I wasn't happy that I did that. When I came back, I felt revived, but also was really mad with myself for not fighting through that fatigue,

because I felt like mentally I had given up. I had more in me, but I didn't want to go to that place where I feel that extreme discomfort. Got it. So I was like, but it's also an enlightening place. So I didn't want to like I When I restarted the run then it about five hours later After like cooling off getting a nap, etc

I felt really fresh and I was running up the mountain Mount Whitney I made up of about three or four miles up the mountain and I just had this epiphany hit me like That I want to go to the finish line and I want to turn around and I'm just gonna run right back to the target so it's gonna be 270 miles. I didn't know if my crew would be agreeable to that so when I got to the finish line I basically told my friend Judd who was my crew chief I was like hey what do you think about turning around now and just going back to the start? He's like well I don't have anything else going on. So let's go do it. So One other crew member of mine Isaac

He jumped in and like they helped to crew me like they've just like drive down the road a couple miles And then like I would just get drinks out of the back etc but it was kind of wild because that's a race I've been running for like now 13 years and I never turn around at the finish line and ran all the way back. And if I would have said that at the start line, that was going to go all the way there, 135 miles, turn around and come back. That would have, I would have said, hell no. Like absolutely not.

But something happened and it just like tugged at my inner spirit to just do this. It was difficult. It was really tough, especially the last marathon, because it was going back to the hottest place in Death Valley. It was over 120 degrees. And it was a wind into our face. So it was like hot wind. It was like hot wind. It was really hot wind.

It just goes right across that black pavement. And it just heats you. But what's exciting about this stuff is when you think you're at your end, you're not at your end. And you have a way to pull more from yourself. It takes nutrition. It takes nutrition. It takes pacing. It takes, sometimes you have to stop and stretch

or do something like that. But there's more within each of us than we ever dream. Yeah, you remind me of David Goggins, man. You guys are machines out there. Yeah, I love David. I mean, I think he and I are different individuals. Like we're both really hard, hard as he would say. Like I would love to go to the end with him, but we both come from a different strand. Like he's going to come at you and say, motherfucker,

you got to get going right now. And I'm like more like the quieter teacher mode. You're like the philosopher, he's the discipliner. Yeah, and I love his approach. I know like a lot of people that resonates with them. They like being, you know, that hardness of just being like, get off your ass. Military approach. Yeah, go.

And like with my students or people that I come across, I just try to reason. Try to reason. And yeah, I mean, that's just a different angle. But I love what he does. Have you ever yelled at a student or gotten angry, super angry? Yeah, I have.

But I don't like to do that. I don't usually do that. Normally, one of the things about the running or working out like you like to do is it just calms you. So I always run commute to work. So every single day for 11 years, I run to work and run home from work. Every single day.

So you show up sweating to school? No, I change. So I got my suit tie and my backpack. I throw that on. I carry my laptop, my food. Everything's in my backpack. It's like 5K each way. But a lot of days, I'll run 10 miles of work, 10 miles home.

And that way, I make sure I work out. But I also get to work, and I have the right mindset. I feel ready to engage with the students. I'm not bringing in too much extra baggage. And if I have a rough day with the class for some reason, which doesn't happen that often, then just running home, it's gone. It's like meditation almost. It's meditation, absolutely.

So yeah, I don't typically yell at students. I don't like to do that. I mean, last year my student teacher was a Marine. He was amazing. And he never yelled one time the whole school year. And he got the kids' attention by speaking to them and reasoning with them. And it was beautiful.

Yeah. I got some traumatic memories getting yelled at as a kid. Yeah that's not right. Yeah but I can't say I never did it. I mean I crossed 25 years. Yeah I mean uh but when I do something that I don't like I try to catch myself. So like this last week my my dog died. Oh sorry. Yeah yeah he was amazing dog he was a rescue dog uh chance and like that day at school. I had like my second bell there was just like some like a little bit like people weren't engaged like I want them to and someone like said I Dressed someone and said something like I Said someone's name wrong or something and I was like well my dog died, you know, and I was like, yeah And it was I didn't yell but then afterwards I was like it made me think about and I was like, yeah. And it was, I didn't yell. But then afterwards, I was like, it made me think about it.

And I was like, oh, you know, I definitely wanted to talk to that student and be like, hey, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to snap back to my dog. Wow. Just because that's like, I think about that. Like, that could have a bad impact on my student. You know, so. That takes a big person to admit that.

Because I've never seen a teacher apologize after they yell at someone, you know? Oh, yeah. I mean, I person to admit that because I've never seen a teacher like apologize after they yell at someone, you know? Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, it's I don't think it gets us too far. I mean, there are times where I want to like yell at someone like to get some sense into someone, maybe if I'm pushing my hand. But usually that's not the way that you're actually going to like break through.

You know, and with me as a kid, I was I was a bad student. Oh, you were? Yeah, I normally had like D's just scraping by. Wow. It was that marathon that I talked about that changed everything for me because I found something to go that I found that formula. I started to find the formula. I was still finishing the back of the pack.

But I found that persistence, with persistence, you can do anything on this planet. And with enough persistence and work ethic, you can do anything on this planet and with enough persistence and and work ethic you can achieve anything so that that was a real key moment I love the aspect for me personally it helps me like that I was a bad student because I didn't change things around till like I was later in high school yeah and in college and that helps me with like working with the kids

that may be struggling. They didn't have like success before. And I still don't have success with every student. Like I have students in my mind right now that I'm thinking about that tomorrow, how am I going to engage them? Because I want them to move into a different direction. Right.

Yeah. Yeah, at the end of the day, it's on them as well. So you can't 100% influence everyone. That's it. Absolutely. Yeah. But I agree with you, man. I was a bad student too, but persistence

is how I made it in podcasting. I film more than anyone I know. And just that work ethic and volume is what got me to one of the top shows. How did you make that transition? I mean, it's incredibly incredible that you went from, You started this in 2023. Yeah, 22 months ago.

That's incredible. So, 1,200 episodes in 22 months. That might be a world record. That might be a world record. Because Rogan's at 2,415 years. That's crazy. And right now, you're doing a fasting. I'm doing a two-day fast right now.

I just got a Pranovo health scan done on my body. So I want to fast and get my body out. I'm really curious about the fasting. Have you done it? I've done little bits, but never seriously. You probably couldn't because of how much you run. I don't think it would work. I think you could do it just for short periods.

It's part of your big picture. I meant a long one, though. Yeah, I'm not sure like I would be curious like you know I think I could do it but it would affect my training but you could incorporate that into like your training like yeah okay this is my lower mileage part of my four hours yeah maybe you're offseason or low mileage part of season you could do it yeah you could definitely do it there's some interesting studies on it like a three day fast and how it can reverse certain things in your body.

I would look into it. I think the other aspect I'm curious about is just the philosophical, the spiritual aspect. I think that there's something also you might be able to get to a meditative state a little bit differently. They call it runner's high, right? That's different, though, too.

But I mean, with the fasting, I think. But yeah, runner's high is absolutely something real. You get an elated, but that, I would think you need the nutrition. You need the power. Because it's hard to be going 100%. And a lot of times with the runner's high, it's like a concert.

Imagine you're driving a convertible, and you're listening to your favorite music, or you get that tingling feeling all over, that sensation. And that's what runner's high is. I've got that maybe when I was running in the 270 miles. And I turn around, and I come back down off Mount Whitney. I'm looking at this incredible vista. And I just get this tingly sensation over my whole body.

And I feel euphoria that I couldn't, like I could just go forever. Yeah, it's a wild experience. I wonder what that is, like scientifically. What's going on there? I think it's like the endorphins kicking in your body. It's the brain chemistry.ins kicking in your body. It's the brain chemistry.

Yeah, the human body's so fascinating. Yeah. We're still figuring out what's going on. It is wild. I love it, man. That's wild. But longevity, like running, it's just about taking care of your body.

I mean, I've been doing this for now almost 28 years. And it's like, I'm still looking next year to compete in a world championship. And I would love to go back and win that race. And it's like, you can, like my friend is 102. He got cancer at 69. He changed his lifestyle. The doctor said he had three months to live.

He changed to eating all vegan foods, reduced stress in his life. And he does more pull-ups than I do. Holy crap. He literally does pull-ups every night. That's awesome. So it's like, it's an interesting age we live in. It is.

But you've got some folks are on the extreme end of health and nutrition and doing crazy things. And then you've got a lot of Americans are struggling now. I look at my hometown in Ohio, in Circleville. A third of the people I go into, like Kroger or anywhere like that, are really suffering from obesity. It's like that has an impact on your mind as well, like your mental health.

It's, you know, there's absolutely the modern currents, like a lot of the currents that we're getting through our marketing and like advertising, it's like, it's only furthering like this epidemic of like poor health in the country. Yeah, I used to eat like shit and I had brain fog every day. Yeah, can you imagine that? Like think about schools, for example, like we talk about like comparing our country to the other 35 countries or 25 countries in the world

and like why are we not performing as well and like one of the the biggest challenges is is that kids do not have adequate nutrition in school period I mean they're I mean we're trying to provide it the school lunches they're trying to provide it like our school district has really made some shifts and they've really tried to do a better job. When you look across the whole country, a lot of kids come to lunch or breakfast or come to come to class come to school with like chips and a soda. That's used

to be me. Yeah, it's three bags of chips. How in the world can you learn math or study science without getting enough nutrition? So I mean, you reevaluating what we're providing to our kids and providing adequate nutrition to our kids would be a huge difference. One of the things I was surprised about with my school district is they actually have a vegan option every day now in every school in my district.

It's like kind of crazy. Now, our breakfasts still could use every school in my district. It's like kind of crazy. Now, our breakfast is still could use some help, like in my mind. But there are some shifts. Like we finally have like a salad bar. Like they never had that when I was growing up. Definitely not. I don't know.

I mean, so there are some shifts. Like they don't sell soda in our school anymore. Nice. You can't buy soda. But like we look at analyzing our performances. Also look at those other meters. Like what's happening with our kids versus other kids? Like are we getting enough of the nutrition?

And we've kind of pushed aside physical education and the arts. There's so much concentration on the core academic subjects. But those subjects, like orchestra, someone who's playing orchestra, they're more likely to do better in math as well by performing in orchestra. And like having these other arts,

they're more likely to balance out these kids so that they have an outlet so that they're able to succeed in the other subjects. There's a whole big picture out there. There's some work to do, but I think we're on the right path. It is. We are on the right path to a degree. We are on the right path.

It's a challenge. President Trump, love him or hate him, he said some flamboyant things. And I think that that's in our concern. He's a leader of our country, president-elect. He said recently that kids could go to a public school and get a sex change and not even get the parents permission. I saw that.

That's the most outrageous statement I've ever heard of. And I'm not picking on people if they vote for Harris or Trump. But really thinking about if 5% people believe that, as teachers, we can't even take kids out the front of the school without permission slip. A lot of distrust from the parents. There's so much permission slip. So there's no school in America that that's the case, but you have our president-elect saying that.

So it's a concern that there's a lot of misinformation that's being sent out there that have parents like in hysteria, like at these school board meetings and et cetera, when reality isn't really so. Yeah, a lot of mistrust with parents and teachers right now. It's probably at an all time high. I say you're right. Yeah, with the media. Yeah.

Well, Harvey, it's been cool getting to hear from you, man. It's really cool to hear from you. And I'm definitely excited to hear about the rest of your fasting experience. Thank you. And keep hear about the rest of your fasting experience. Thank you. And keep up with the basketball. Yes, sir. That's really sweet. And that's amazing that you've had this podcast. How many months now? 22. 22 months. So do you have any like goals in the next like two years? Like where you want to be? Yeah, two years. I want to break the world record for number of podcast episodes. I want to be top three on Apple for overall shows.

I think right now we're like 100 for overall in our category. We're number one. And now I want to be top 100 on Spotify as well. That's really sweet. Yeah. Got some gold. Go get it. Yes, sir. Thanks for coming on though. We'll link your stuff below.

I appreciate it. Thanks for watching guys. See you next time. Cheers.