Digital Social Hour - How AI Is Changing Marketing & Funnels Forever | Russell Brunson DSH #1252

Episode Date: March 20, 2025

🔥 Russell Brunson on Funnels, Business Growth & the Future of Online Sales 🚀 In this high-impact episode, we sit down with Russell Brunson, the legendary entrepreneur, author, and founder of ClickFunnels. He shares insider strategies on building successful businesses, mastering sales funnels, and how AI is reshaping the online marketing world. We dive into: ✅ How ClickFunnels revolutionized online business ✅ The biggest mistakes entrepreneurs make with sales funnels ✅ Why AI is changing marketing faster than ever ✅ How to sell online effectively & build a brand that lasts ✅ The mindset shift that separates winners from everyone else This episode is packed with game-changing insights, success strategies, and the mindset needed to dominate in today’s digital economy! 📲 Follow Russell Brunson & Learn More: 🔗 Website: RussellBrunson.com 🔗 Instagram: @RussellBrunson 🔗 YouTube: Russell Brunson 🔗 Books: DotCom Secrets, Expert Secrets, Traffic Secrets – Available on Amazon CHAPTERS  📌 00:00 – Russell Brunson on Finding Rare Books & Napoleon Hill’s Lost Work 📌 04:10 – How ClickFunnels Changed the Online Business World 📌 09:15 – Why Major Events Are Disappearing & the Future of Virtual Summits 📌 14:30 – The AI Boom: How It’s Revolutionizing Marketing & Funnels 📌 19:50 – The Secret to Mastering Sales & Closing Deals Online 📌 25:10 – Why Most Entrepreneurs Fail & How to Fix It 📌 30:40 – The Importance of Storytelling in Marketing & Branding 📌 36:20 – Building a Business That Lasts: Long-Term Strategies 📌 41:50 – Why Russell Collects Ancient Books & the Lessons They Hold 📌 47:30 – The Next Big Trends in Online Marketing & AI 📌 52:00 – Final Thoughts & Advice for Entrepreneurs 🔥 Apply to Be on the Podcast & Business Inquiries: 🎙 APPLY TO BE ON THE PODCAST: https://www.digitalsocialhour.com/application 📩 BUSINESS INQUIRIES/SPONSORS: [e-mail]   🔥 Hashtags #RussellBrunson #ClickFunnels #Marketing #Entrepreneurship #SalesFunnels #OnlineBusiness #AI #PassiveIncome #DigitalMarketing #DigitalSocialHour #Podcast

I found this piece on eBay. It was Napoleon Hill. Before he wrote Think and Grow Rich, he wrote a book called Laws of Success. It was like a 16 book set. And you can buy a first edition for like five grand. But there was a set that was a pre first edition. Three years before he wrote the first edition, he wrote it.

It's kind of like, you know, authors write a book now and they print a galley copy. They send their friends and people. So he wrote a galley copy of Laws of Success three years before he published it. He sent it to like the President of the United States and the Queen of England and Andrew Carnegie and people. Yeah. So he wrote a galley copy of Lost Success three years before he published it. He sent it to like the President of the United States, the Queen of England and Andrew Carnegie and stuff. Anyway, there's only one known copy that's complete

and he had it signed. It was on eBay for 1.5 million. I was like, oh, that would be... Anyway, so I didn't buy it for a long time. I was buying every other rare thing I could find, but that one just kept mocking me. I was like, I have to have, so eventually I went to buy that and the collector who had it, he'd been collecting

and pulling those for 20 years. And so I told him I was gonna buy everything I have. And so I flew out there and just bought his entire 20 years of collecting and brought it home. And that kind of like started my, the seed of my book collecting. And then the last two and a half, three years, about 18,000 first edition books and manuscripts

and paintings from authors. Anyway, just, it's been the most fun treasure hunting thing in the world. All right guys, Russell Brunson here today getting ready for his last Funnel Hacking Live ever, man. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me. I'm excited. Yeah, that number 10. Yeah, it's crazy. We started 10 years ago as like a one-time event with our community and then it's become this huge, crazy, you know, industry wide event, it's crazy. We started 10 years ago. It was going to be a one-time event with our community, and then it's become this huge, crazy industry-wide event, which is really fun. How many were at the first one?

Very first one, it's 600 people. And this one will have a little over 5,000. Wow, so 10x. Yeah. It's interesting to see, because Grant's calling it quits, too. I know. It's crazy.

All the big events are going to be done. And TNC got shut down, which is a big one in our industry. So yeah, it's going to be next year. It'll be interesting to see who tries to step in and take the void. Yeah, I'm wondering what's going on in the event space. A lot of people seem to be going virtual. Yeah.

Tony Robbins, right? Tony Dunn, yeah. We're the same thing. It's interesting because we'll make as much or more from a virtual event where I don't have to leave my house. There's these huge events that take us almost an entire year to plan and put together and hotels and all that kind of stuff.

And so yeah, I'm sure we'll do big events again in the future. I'm just, I need a break for a couple of years. Yeah, I think there's a time and place for them. I think people got a little too gun friendly with them. There was an event every week for like five years straight. So people got burnt out, all these masterminds and everything.

Yeah, for sure. It exploded in the last five or six years. It's been really crazy. Yeah. Well, I think after COVID ended, people wanted to go to events. But then it just got so. I get invited to so many events. It's nuts.

You got to pick and choose your battles. Yeah. And that looks similar to you. When we started ours, originally, I felt like it was different. It was unique. And now a lot of people modeled how we've done ours. And now they all look very similar.

And it's just kind of interesting. So I'm like, I want to reset and figure out a new way to do it that no one's doing, but I need some space to figure out what's new. Well, you've always been good at kind of carving the path. ClickFunnels was very innovative when it came out. I think you were the first to do that sort of structure with Funnels.

Yeah, prior we were all, the people who were doing Funnels were all hand building them at the time. And so it wasn't, I don't think there were a lot of people who were talking about trying to build something like that. It was almost like everyone was racing towards building something. And then we were the ones that got it done and executed on it.

And yeah, for six, seven years, we were just us before people started kind of copying us. Yeah. And now you're seeing it with the AI industry, right? People that were working on it for five years before the boom are just cashing in right now. Yeah, AI so fast. We were one of our developers who built,

in the last two days, built 18 new apps for our platform just using AI. Holy crap. He's like, you used to have to code stuff. So now I just tell the prompts, and then it pops it out, and he's just busting out apps so fast. Like, apps that were entire brands and businesses, they can rewrite in an hour. It's insane.

Dude, it's nuts. I'm learning the fastest I've ever learned because of AI. I mean, it's unreal. I'm summarizing fastest I've ever learned because of AI. I mean, it's unreal. I'm summarizing audiobooks. I'm getting these health tests. I'm asking AI to improve my health. There's so many uses. It tells you everything.

Yeah. Dude, it's insane. Are you using it pretty frequently? We're using it for a lot of things. I also feel like part of me is like, I'm nervous because I really enjoy reading books. And I really enjoy. You know what I mean?

So it's like, there's the balance. You're like, this is going to ruin a part of my life I really enjoy reading books. I really enjoy, you know what I mean? So it's like, there's like the balance in like, this is gonna ruin a part of my life I really enjoy versus, you know, even like writing, like I write books and it's a lot of work. And now everyone knows writing books, AI, and it's like, oh, you're losing like half of the art of writing a book is, you know, bleeding over it for you. Yeah, I don't think it's fully there yet for writing books

because that personal touch, that emotional connection with books is special. I know for me, I would write my books. It's weird because you're in like, you're so deep in the writing process for so long that like you start seeing these connections start appearing. That when I'm starting the book, I don't know these things. And when you're in the middle of the book, like these things are showing up here. Oh, that makes sense here. And I feel like if you're not in it, writing it, like you, you lose out on like half of the, half the creativity. That's a good point. I mean, you've written some books so you could speak from experience.

Yeah. It's a different perspective. I know you collect've written some books so you could speak from experience. Yeah. It's a different perspective. I know you collect ancient books too, right? Yeah. I wanted to talk about that. Yeah. I'm a big collector. Are you really?

Books or other stuff? Just in general. Okay. Right now it's Funko Pops. I collect ancient coins. Uh-huh. Searching for the perfect job can be overwhelming. You know it's out there.

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Um, yeah, all sorts of random stuff throughout the years. When I was a kid, it was Pokemon cards, sports cards. I love collecting. That's amazing. Yeah, I want to learn how you got into ancient books. That's a unique sort of collection. Yeah. Let me tell you. So it started. So I'm a Mormon. And I went on my mission 20 plus years ago to New Jersey.

And I met this lady who made her living. She was buying old books on eBay and flipping them on other auction sites. And I remember she showed me a first edition book of Mormon. And it was like $80,000 on eBay. This is 20 years ago. So then fast forward to like, you know, seven or eight years ago, I got some money

and I go to eBay, I type in first edition Book of Mormon, I see one for sale and I was like, oh man, that would be cool. So I bought my very first one and I got it and it was just, it's cool. So they printed 5,000 of them, there's only about 350 known copies in the world. So it's one of 350. And I got it.

And that started it. It started the itch for me. And I was like, what else is interesting? So I started buying more religious books. And then I had this idea. I wanted to build a museum. I wanted to show people what I was collecting. So I started building this museum.

And I'm like, it'd be cool to have different sections for different things that I'm passionate about. And so I started looking at, well, in the business space, what are the old books? In the personal development space. And I found this piece on eBay. It was Napoleon Hill.

Before he wrote Think and Grow Rich, he wrote a book called Laws of Success. It was like a 16-book set. And you can buy a first edition for like $5,000. But there was a set that was a pre-first edition. Three years before he wrote the first edition, he wrote it. It's kind of like authors write a book book now, they print a galley copy, they send it to their friends and people.

So he wrote a galley copy of Lost Success three years before he published it. He sent it to like, the President of the United States, and the Queen of England, and Andrew Carnegie and stuff. Anyway, there's only one known copy that's complete, and he had it signed, it was on eBay for 1.5 million. I was like, oh, that would be... Anyway, so I didn't buy it for a long time, I was buying every other rare thing I could find, but that one just kept mocking me. I was like, oh, that would be... Anyway, so I didn't buy it for a long

time. I was buying every other rare thing I could find, but that one just kept mocking me. I was like, I have to have... So eventually I went to buy that and the collector who had it, he'd been collecting Napoleon Hillster for 20 years. And so I told him I'll just buy everything you have. And so I flew out there and just bought his entire 20 years of collecting and brought it home. And that kind of started the seed of my book collecting. And then the last two and a half, three years, about 18,000 first edition books and manuscripts and paintings from authors.

Anyway, it's been the most fun treasure hunting thing in the world. Is it a passion thing, or is it an investment or both? So it would be an investment, because books actually beat the S&P 7 7x or something like that Wow But I'm also kind of a hoarder. I don't think So it's like it's not actually some more just I'm obsessed with them. They're gonna pass it down to your kids Yeah, and what's cool is like the personal development books a lot of them are in the public domain

So now we're republishing a lot of them. You know, and we have a new brand It's called Seekers of Success and republishing these books And so I mean that that business is doing two or three million bucks a year right now Just republishing these old books really so it's funding the addiction. So that's how I'm looking at it It's like okay This helps kind of pay for me to buy more books and keep some going you can monetize it Yeah, not taking a full L on it. Yeah. Wow. I can't believe stuff is listed on eBay for a million dollars Oh, yeah, it's great people buy it

Crazy people do that is crazy. Yeah, you think it'd be like a scam or something I know. That's why I reached out to him. I'm like, I have to make sure this is real. Yeah, because I'm not going to wire him a million and a half that scene. So we flew out there first to see it all. And then I was like, oh, dang, that's amazing. Wow.

That must be your most expensive hobby, I'd imagine. Oh, for sure. Yeah. And then it's funny because there's that one. And then in the Mormon books, there's one book that's the most rare. It's called The Book of Commandments. And when I first started collecting, these collectors were like, if you ever see one in your life,

you'll count yourself lucky. I was like, I wanna buy one. Like you'll never buy one. Anyway, there's nine copies on the planet. Most of them like, one at Stanford, one at Harvard. Like they're all like in institutions. And anyway, one of the institutions came up for sale and I bought it.

So it's like, that was another one. That one's a $1.5 million one. Holy crap. And I have the only one that's in private hands right now. So it's like, that was another one. That one's a $1.5 million one. Holy crap. And I have the only one that's in private hands right now. Oh my god. So it becomes like fun because there's a story and you can show people. And yeah, so I love it.

That is nuts, dude. You need good insurance on that. What's the most expensive book in the world, do you know? Oh, there's some that are insane. Yeah, like you get like a Gutenberg Bible that you know I don't think one sold since the 80s, but yeah, that'd be 80 90 million. Holy if it was to come to market which no one will get rid of is that cuz there's only like three of them Or something. Yeah, yeah first ones off the first printing presses, you know, and yeah, there's there's it's insane. There's no top

There's there's old manuscripts and old Bibles and old Taurus and stuff like that. They're just Crazy with it. Yeah, you can you can go as deep as you want yeah I gotta make more money so I can get more yeah it's interesting cuz I know you're not really like materialistic right you're not buying like cars and watches and stuff I do have a couple nice watches but yeah not too much yeah I'm yeah my wife and I are pretty humble like especially my wife she's she's very much like she's amazing. She's not into all the crazy stuff, you know?

And so, yes, we had extra money and I don't know what to do with it. And we invest some, we do some charity stuff, but it was just like, when these books started coming around, I was like, I think there's, I don't know, they're really fun for me and it's just a cool place to put your money.

And for me, it's like, we're building a museum because I love storytelling storytelling so people can come and like I just want to like show people and tell the stories of Books and the authors and who they were and why they actually matter and I love that man. Yeah I know you really value family. I mean you live in idaho with all your money, you know, you could have chosen anywhere So that shows to me you really value family. Yeah, I love that man five kids. Yep five kids now and Yeah, it's crazy. Has that been the toughest balance for you with business family family. Yeah for sure I mean, it's it's tough because when we start having kids like Consciously, I was like I want to make sure that I'm a I'm a present dad

Like I know a lot of people who are their dads, but they're not present, you know I wonder if you're I could be present. So that's been the balance. How do I do what we're doing in business, but also make sure I'm there for the practices, and the games, and the matches, and the recitals, and that kind of stuff. So it's been neat, though. The kids are awesome.

And it's fun, because now the kids, they come to our events. And it's one of our big events this weekend. So the kids will be there, and they just love being part of it and being behind the scenes and backstage, and meeting all the speakers and stuff. It's really fun. They're going to learn a lot more than public school hanging around you. Have you signed up in public school, actually?

Yeah. Oh, you do? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. It's funny. Yeah, because all their friends go there. And we told them since the very beginning,

I'm like, I don't really make schools good socially good socially you know I learned to read I learned to be with people and be around people but you know. You can only control so much because I know your your sons play sports too right yeah so you kind of need to send them to school for sure yeah. Are they also wrestling too? So my my twin boys just graduated so they're done competing now and then my daughter is a soccer player my next son's a soccer player So we're in the soccer soccer season of our life right now soccer is a good one Yeah, I attribute a lot of my success to sports the mental side of things with sports. You play where I played soccer That was a good one. I was a big runner though, and that's the sport

I really attribute my mental fortitude because distance running is hard man you doing cross-country Yeah, you had around 10 miles a day dang. Yeah, you ever run distance like that before Russell we just short distances Gotta run a little bit. Yeah, we ran a lot, but it was never like 20 10 mile Yeah, it wasn't a fast pace, but still you got to run to stay in shape. Yeah running is no joke I think that's one of the hardest sports personally like triathlons and stuff ironmans such a mental battle I assume right to talk about long. Yeah, that's why I respect Goggins I mean that dude is different has he ever spoken out one of your events. He hasn't yet. Oh, no

He's a good show. No, he's super picky easy very I mean once you get on Rogan, you know Yeah, you can choose what you want to do a downhill from there I'm sure he gets asked every day to go on a podcast. I'm sure you do too. You're probably picky, your time's very valuable. I appreciate you coming on. What's gonna be your main focus this year now that you're parting ways from events? Yeah, so we started a new virtual event

just like five or six months ago. It's called Selling Online by sellingonline.com, which is a great domain. But it's teaching people how to do, because obviously in in my world I teach people how to build funnels and how to say all sorts of stuff but the piece that most people are really bad at because the funnel stuff is easy for some to learn like oh I need these different pages but I think they're really bad as actually selling and so we started teaching selling online event and we do it once a month right now and

it we bring people in I teach them we call one to many selling how do you how do you sell from a platform or from your funnel or from whatever that is? And so that's really our big focus. We had 3,700 people went through the event last month, and we're just trying to get the spot where I want five or 6,000 people every month going through that event. Nice.

Because that's like the missing piece. They can figure that piece out, then funnels become easy, traffic becomes easy, all the other things become easy when you learn how to actually sell. Absolutely. Well, I met one of your students today

who came on the show, Eileen, and she is crushing it. She's amazing, huh? I mean, she's selling from her bedroom, making a million dollars. That's incredible. She's been saying. It's crazy, because she came into our world like three or four years ago.

Her and her husband were driving an Uber, and they came to one of our events. And just for her, it just clicked. And then she came back. And she's a great speaker anyway, but she didn't have the structure of how do you speak to sell. And as soon as she figured that out,

then it was just off to the races. It was fascinating to watch how fast she grew her business when she knew the structure of how to do it right. I always wonder what separates those top students from the rest. Have you figured that out yet? Because it can't just be work ethic. Yeah, I think I thought a lot about that.

Because some people coming through our door every day is like, how come these guys are killing, these guys aren't? And the one common thread I've seen between people that are successful is like, the ones that aren't, the ones that aren't are the ones who come in because they're trying to figure out how to make money. And those ones always struggle. The ones who come in and then, they usually come in initially because they want to make money. But those ones always struggle. The ones who come in and then, they usually come in initially

because they want to make money. But the ones who fall in love with understanding the art of it, those ones have success. When they're like, whoa, this is cool. This is how it works. And they start geeking out about that. Because there's the nuances of the thing, right? And you have to take something but adapt it for you

and for your personality and your audience and stuff like that. And the ones who love it and become obsessed with those, the ones that have the most success. And the ones that struggle are the ones who are like, I'm trying to make money, it's not working, why is it not working? And it's just like, you gotta fall in love with the process.

And then when you do that, for me, when I started falling in love with the marketing and with learning these things, then everything changed for me. I love that. Plus what works in the past doesn't work in the future. Yeah, you get a pattern for what worked in the past But then you have to figure out like what are like I was thinking about this with the house, right?

You have a framework of a house and it's like the structure But like what you have to bring is the art like you have to design and the decor and the painting like you know It's like I can give you the structure But you got to bring your own personality and if you don't understand it if you're just trying to like make money It doesn't work. Right? Yeah, you understand, okay, this is awesome, this is why it works, this is how it works, how I can make it work for me, that's the big change. Agreed.

There's also a lot of just bad coaching, I think. Because you go on Facebook, people are saying webinars are dead, right? I got buddies making millions a week off webinars. I know. Yeah. So there's just bad advice everywhere, so I think filtering is important.

Yeah, well I think it's funny too, because I see it all the time, like, funnels are dead. And then you click on the link in the ad and it takes you through one of our click funnels. Well, yeah. Apparently it's dead, yeah. But it's still working.

Or webinars, yeah. I remember 20 years ago when I first got in this game, I remember seeing people talking about email. There's a guy had a book called The Death of Email. Email's dead. And I was like, oh no. It's too bad. That was 20 years ago.

I'm like, email still today is still our most profitable revenue source by far. Same with me. Cold email's been crushing for me. Oh, cold emails? Cold. Really? Yeah.

That's interesting. I get a lot of guests, a lot of sponsors, a lot of people at my events I do in-person events, and it's all cold email. Interesting. Yeah. We've been dominating. Yeah, that's interesting.

Shout out to instantly.ai. They don't sponsor, but yeah, I use their platform. They should though. Yeah, they should. I'm giving them a lot of promo right now. You don't do cold email that much though? No, we do all the warm audits. Well, warm's even better.

But the old email comes off. We drive traffic, get them to opt into something, and then all the email comes from that. OK, yeah, because you're running a ton of ads, right? So you're just collecting emails nonstop. I remember when SMS was going to be the next thing. Is that still hot? Yeah, but it's different. I think everyone thought it gonna be the next thing, is that still hot? Yeah, but it's different.

I think everyone thought it was gonna be email times 100, you know? Yeah, with the open rates. But I notice now with myself, I can get 50 emails in a day, it doesn't bother me. If I get five texts in a day, I'm like annoyed. You know what I mean? Facts. And so it's weird.

So I think there's a window where you can do it, but I don't think the number of people having success with it as an actual, I mean, I think you can use, for me, I use right now when I'm doing something like, oh, I'm going live, I come over here and then I push them somewhere, where it's like pushing something entertaining or exciting,

that works, but I can't just sell off it, where email, I can be like, hey, here's a new offer, go buy the thing and people will go buy and off text, like, I don't know, something's different about it, where at least for me, I have not noticed sales increase that much, the barrier is just weird. I agree, I don't think I've ever bought off a text.

Yeah. But off emails. Even social's similar, like, if I just on a reel or something and I'm promoting something, it hardly does anything. Same. So if I push there or I'm getting them to email somewhere else, then email, you know,

so it's just interesting. Yeah, I wonder if it's because on email, a lot of people open it on desktop, maybe that's why, and on your phone, you're not, I don't know. It's harder to buy or, yeah, I wonder if it's because on email a lot of people open it on desktop Maybe that's why and on your phone. You're not I don't know harder to buy. Yeah, maybe there's more friction Yeah, that's why you make click funnels so much friction everywhere. I Used to use click funnels every day man. Oh, yeah. Yes with my networking events. We started on click funnels It was so easy to compare to event bright. Yeah event brights like kind of old-school I don't know if you used to use it But I think we did wait we connected to click funnels to to build a do the event management back and be out front and was a nightmare to make it work

Yeah, now there's a new event app. I think have you seen it Luma or something? Oh, it's really good man Luma Yeah, LU MA Phenomenal yeah, but I mean with with your events you probably want to own all the data so you wouldn't use something like that But I mean with with your events you probably want to own all the data so you wouldn't use something like that Dude are you still at the office? I saw you on an interview. Are you still at the office till 5 a.m. Every day? No, not normally Yeah, my normal I'm usually there from like 9 to 5 Okay, cuz I saw you talking on some interview you were working till 4 to 5 a.m if we're leading up to like an event like this or something crazy, there'll be some of that kind of stuff.

But yeah, I've tried to break my life up where I've got family time in the morning and the nights. And then when I'm in business, I can do business time. But I try not to bleed over that. And again, unless an event like this is coming up where I have 11 presentations over the next five days. So I was leading up to it, killing myself

to get all this stuff done. But after post-event, then it goes back to normal. You're doing 11 yourself? Yeah. Holy crap. I did, because I used to go to TNC. And I loved, I don't know if you know Ryan and Perry, but they're my favorite.

And the event used to be just those two speaking. And then as it got bigger, they'd go around and more speakers, more speakers. And eventually, it was like they each did one speech, and they had all these other speakers. And I quit going. So I launched mine. I was like, the reason why I went because I wanted to hear Ryan and Perry talk and I was like

if I If I pull myself out like they did then my people will stop showing up And so back night committed to do that But usually I usually I do six six or seven each event But this is our last one and so I had like I had more stuff I wanted to say So I kept putting my like oh, I don't like by this only this oh my god I can make sure they know this. And so I was kind of putting all the last pieces in.

You're doing four a day. That's insane. It'll be a little crazy, but yeah, it'll be awesome. I love it, man. Yeah, it's a balance. You can't have too many speakers. Yeah. A lot of people are there for you, right?

Yeah. And for click funnels. Yeah. And most of our other speakers are people who came into our world. And so when I create the event, I try choreographic, where it's like, I'm teaching a principle. And it's like, now, here's three different people who,

like Eileen for example, like she, one of the best speakers ever, so I'm talking about creating your one-to-many presentation and then she's got this really cool thing, I don't know if she talked about it, called bits, where it's like how she tells her story based on like, on the church she used to go to and how they do stuff. And so she'll speak about storytelling

and things like that inside of it. And so it's kind of fun because it's like like I can introduce a concept then here's our students who are doing it in different ways and showing different insights so people can like they don't just see like here's how Russell does it but here's how other people yeah that's really cool and it's like wow what's your what's your version of how can you do you know your own thing yeah that's brilliant because people like seeing different ways on how people got there right because you got your own way but maybe people can't relate to that. Yeah, some people tried to be me and I'm like, I'm weird.

Like, I mean, like people like, they tried to be like Tony Robbins or like me or like someone else is like, no, like, like figure out your version of this. Like here's the, again, here's the structure, the framework, but you gotta put your own art and your own twist into it to make it you. 100%, cause if you're just copying people,

you're never gonna make it big, right? You can only get to a certain level of just copying. What's been your biggest takeaways from Tony? I know you and him are very close. Yeah I've had so many Cool experiences with Tony over the years like when I first met him My wife and I've been married seven years and we were struggling and like that was my big first breakthrough with him I went to that you were into every Tony event, you know, and he had me speak at one of them

But that was like I started learning just about like human psychology and about relationships and about all these like just stuff I'd never learned about. Yeah. And becoming super aware of stuff, right? Like Tony's really good, like helping you become very aware of the patterns that you have in your life. And most of us getting these patterns, we have no idea what's happening. And so for my wife and I, we go to this event, and all of a sudden we start seeing the patterns that were like destroying our marriage.

And it's like, oh, and we became aware of them. Like, now we know what they are, we can change them, we can fix it, right? And it changed everything in our marriage. And it's like, oh, and we became aware of them. We're like, now that we know what they are, we can change them. We can fix it, right? And it changed everything in our relationship. And so that was the first time was just those kind of things that he helped me with. And then fast forward a decade later, we started doing more business stuff together, and more partnerships.

And it's just fun to see the way his brain works. Because he's not like the architect that's in there trying to do all the details. He's very much like, he builds it, he finds the best people in each space. And he's like, I'm gonna take you and you and you and you, and then put them together and like, even to the spot where he finds the best strategy person

in that thing and then plugs them all in. And then he's like, hey, I'll attach my branch to this, and you guys go do the whole thing. And it's so cool to see how fast he's able to leverage things and create opportunities because he, like the way he connects people, and then just like he's putting his blessing on it, and then adding the Tony effect just makes things convert

higher. I love that. You know, it's really fascinating watching him move. I love that. He went from my first minute, he had like, I don't know, 30 companies. Now he's got like, I don't know, 300 or 400 companies. Dude, that's insane.

All about that. He's so good at finding finding right people plugging them all together and then and Like whenever I tried to do them pass my problem is like I want to be the strategy guy I want to do the funnel like there's pieces I want to keep and Tony's more like it feels like he's just like don't put all the people and get someone's really good Strategy and then you guys go figure it out, right and then these things blow up by the way He he structures. I mean people don't realize how hard that is. Oh, yeah, there's already a 90% failure rate on one company

Yeah, he's doing 300. Oh, it's crazy. When you think about that, it's almost insane. You think about, I think, again, for me, the ones that I've tried that I've failed is because I want to weave my own ego into it. And Tony could, because Tony knows how to do everything. He's brilliant.

But he doesn't put his ego into it. He's just like, all right, let's find the best team. And then I trust your guys' opinion. It's really cool. Ego's a dangerous one team. And then I trust your guys' opinion. Just it's really cool. Yeah, he goes a dangerous one, right? I always have my bottles with it, too. I think it's natural when you just have success. It kind of creeps in a little bit. And then you've got to put it in check.

Oh, yeah, for sure. Have you had trouble with that in the past? For sure. In fact, I remember twice my, maybe three times. Wow. So I had a mentor one time. I had a business that had grown, it had crashed, and it grew it again, it crashed.

And about the time I went to this mastermind thing in Mexico, and I was sitting next to the guy, and the guy was brilliant. He'd done all these huge M&A deals, and sold crazy rich kind of guy. And he starts asking me my story, and I'm like, oh, so I'm kinda telling the highlights, because that's what we do, you know?

Like, oh, I did this, this, and he's like, so have you ever struggled? And so finally, I was like, yeah. So I told him, like, the first time my business crashed and how I was kind of in the middle of one right now. And I remember he looked at me, he's like, oh, cool. He's like, I'll work with you then. I'm like, what do you mean?

He's like, I will never work with an entrepreneur who hasn't cycled at least once. Wow. And first off, he called it cycling instead of failing. And I was like, oh, that feels way better. But then he said that he's like, because he's like, if you haven't cycled, then you still believe your own bio. You still drink your own Kool-Aid, right?

So you have to cycle once you realize it's not about you. And there's always external forces. And I remember him saying, oh, that's such a cool reframe for me. And so for me, it was me, I didn't fail. I cycled. And I learned a bunch of stuff, and I'm coming back. And so I've had probably three big cycles

like that in my business where I've gone up and then down and up and down. And usually it feels like all of them are tied to my ego eventually, though, or it's like I get blindsided by something. So I'm like, oh, I figured this stuff out. And then you get humbled. Same with me, man.

I've had two cycles. I'm like, oh, I figured this stuff out. And then you humbled. Same with me, man. I've had two cycles. I'm only 27. And I could have listened to my fiance on both of them. Because she was right. You're like, no. It's crazy how intuitive women are. I'm sure your wife has told you not to work with certain people. That doesn't feel right.

What are you talking about? The numbers look good. What are you talking about? And no. Good woman by your side is game changer. I see my single friends struggling in that part of their lives. And dating's like a full-time job, too.

Oh, I can imagine. I'm dating 20 years. Nowadays, it's way different than when I was dating. Back in the day, it was way different. Nowadays, there's so many all the apps and the things. Oh, yeah, it's a lot easier now. But that also makes it harder, in a way. For sure.

Because it's too easy. These girls have so much access. It's tough being a guy right now that also makes it harder in a way for sure. You know, it's too easy These girls have so much access. It's it's like tough being a guy right now, huh? You know, did you meet her in Idaho? Yeah, wife. Yeah better in college and I met her at church when I was in college and Beautiful she stuck with you man. Yeah, you said the first eight years you guys were broke. Yeah, that's awesome So she believed in you. Yeah, she's she's awesome. She believed me. She also was like She's you know starting a business, there's so much risk involved. Yeah. And there's so many times when,

I've said this before, Mike, you can only be as successful as your significant other will allow you to be. People get mad at me sometimes for saying that. They're like, what do you mean? They're not in charge. I'm like, I know, but there's like, there were risks that I had to take.

And I was like, hey, Colette, I think we need to take this risk. And she could have easily been scared, or like, no. And my wife's very fear prone too. She gets very scared. But she would just be like, do you feel good? Is this going to work? I'm like, I think so.

She's like, OK. Then she would give me the blessing to do it. And if it failed, it was never like, you know, with your intimate partner, that person can build you up and they can destroy you. They know your insecurityurities more than anyone. And she was just so great at never doing that and just being like, OK, well, what's the next thing?

What are you going to try next? You can figure this out. I'm like, OK, giving me that stuff. And so yeah, it's important to pick the right person who's going to be around, because especially building a business, there's so much risk and so much ups and downs emotionally, mentally, physically, to create something new in the face of all the opposition that comes, you have the right person next to you can make it so much easier.

Game changer. I love that, though, because I was so scared of failure when I was younger. So scared of how people would perceive it. Now I love it. It's like the opposite. This is going to be a good story. Yeah.

Now it's like, OK, what can I learn from this? This is going to make me even better. But when I was younger, man, I was scared of it. Yeah. So you're so spot on with that. Yeah. I don't know what it is. Just like the fear of being judged. Was that a big thing for you too, when you were younger? Yeah. Fear of being judged, fear of being like, I've seen this a lot with my students too, is like, they have a dream, right? This is my dream. I want to accomplish this thing. And so they'll think about it, they'll read about it, listen to podcasts and they get so excited. But then a lot of them, their biggest fear is like,

and because I keep some of this loop for like years, this learning loop, the fear is not that they're gonna fail, the fear is like, what if I try and I fail and then the dream dies? Like I'd rather just stay on the sidelines and think about it, because now the dream's still alive, right? Wow.

And that was the big, most fascinating thing. So with my students, I've worked a lot with them. It's just helping them understand, like, if you fail, you're not a failure. The dream's not dead if you fail. And in fact, the story I always tell that I always talk about during our events, like, my junior year in high school, I had a goal to be a state champion wrestling.

And all summer long, I worked. I was, like, killing myself working towards whatever I knew I was going to state champ you know and then my very first match of the season I go out there to wrestle and I'm wrestling the guy who taking second place to state the year before and he beats me first match first year and I was just like crushed I was like I suck I thought I was awesome I'm barely not you know and then all my teammates are just like I thought you were gonna be a state champ I know and then everyone I knew at

school like you know it's just like it was so much pain and embarrassing. And then I learned like the greatest lesson for my dad. My dad, he had filmed the match. I remember that night we went home and he didn't sleep the whole night. He watched that six minute match probably 100 times that night and like looking at a diagram and figuring things out. And next morning I woke up to go to school and I'm all,

I'm sad and bummed out. And he's like, come over here, Russell. And we go on the carpet. And he's like, OK, this is what the kid did. And he started breaking down like how I lost and we started looking at it And we drilled and like I remember that day before school I was kind of annoyed but we drilled you know all the things to get in the right positions And the next day I went to wrestling practice and then soon practice got none

My dad like walked in the room after he got off work walked in the room I'm like, oh man, he came in and we drilled it again and we drill it and every single day that entire season We drilled it. We drilled it We drilled it and then the end of the, and every single day of that entire season we drilled it, we drilled it, we drilled it. And then the end of the year, four months later, at the state tournament, me and that kid were on the opposite sides of the bracket. And sure enough, we get together in the finals,

and right before the finals match, my dad pulls me aside, we go on the mat, so we're warming up, we drilled it again, I went out there and then I wrestled and I beat him and became the state champ. And it was the coolest thing, because I learned like this lesson that most people don't learn. It's just like failure, if you fail, you're not a failure, right?

If you fail, it's like learning. It's like the best source of information you could possibly get. And then it comes back to like from there, it's like you just keep tweaking and changing, tweaking and changing. So for me when I got into business, it was the same thing. We launched a funnel, we launched a product,

we launched something. And if it failed, again, that's the most like, oh, I'm a failure or too scared to launch because of failure. For me it's like when we create something that we create and we launch as fast as we can, because I'm just trying to get the data, launch it real quick.

And so like anytime we like a book funnel or something we put out there and we just go spend a thousand bucks, two thousand, we spend some money to get some ads and we start looking at the numbers, we're like, okay cool, that looks great, the conversions are too low, too high, we look at the things and we're like,

rewrite this, tweak this, change, try some more ads. We keep doing that three or four times. So eventually, all the numbers are good. And I'm like, OK, now we launch it. And then boom, it explodes. I love that. You're like, man, you're always successful. I'm like, no, it was because we fell really fast.

And then we just iterate and tweak, iterate and tweak. And as soon as it works, then we can scale. Wow. So your dad was like your first mentor. That's cool, man. It was cool to watch that. Because again, my default is I wanted to be bummed out and sad and miserable, which

is what most of us do if we fail. I just learned from him, it was just like, no. Now we know where you're out of position. Let's just fix that. That was like, yeah, it sounds like a make or break moment in your life. Because a lot of people that would have happened to you, right, and they would have folded.

Yeah. Right? They would have shut down the rest of the season. And they would have lost who knows how many matches. But you, you took the opposite route. And you ended up wrestling at a higher level after that, right? Yeah. There was some in high school and then wrestling college.

Did you want to go pro or did you want to stop in college? So in college, I never placed the NCAAs. I was ranked the top 10 and then I got done with that. And I took a couple years off. And then actually, I wanted to wrestle in the Olympics. And so it's a little crazy story. But I actually hired the Olympic Greco coach, moved him to Boise.

And I hired eight guys who were competing for Olympics, moved them all to Boise. We had a training center. Oh, that's cool. I was like, I'm going to bring all these people here. And we did that for about eight or nine months. And then anyway, the business I was building on the side to fund the whole thing kind of fell apart. And then I had to let the side to fund the whole thing kind of fell apart.

And then I had to let all those guys go, and it kind of fell apart. So I had a desire to go, but I never got to that level where I could have actually, I think if I could have kept training for a couple of years, I would have, for the next Olympic Cycle, maybe had a chance. But it fell apart before I was able to go that far.

Who do you think the greatest wrestler of all time is? Jordan Burrows. Oh, that was a fast answer. He spoke at our last Final Hacking Live. It was the coolest thing in the world. He all time is? Jordan Burrows. Oh, that was a fast answer. He spoke at our last Final Hacking Live. It was the coolest thing in the world. He just last year, it was crazy. It was the weekend before our event was a world tournament.

And prior that, John Smith had won six world titles. He was the most decorated American wrestler of all time. And Jordan had six. And then two weeks before our event, he won it and won the seventh. And he came to our event with the medal and showed everyone, and it was pretty cool. Wow, I've seen his videos actually. Is he still the champ?

He didn't qualify for Olympics this last round and oh I saw that he barely lost to someone right? Yeah, so we're not sure if he's gonna try to go one more cycle or if he's done. I don't think he's announced yet. I love the Olympics. I can't wait till they're in LA man. Is that the next cycle right? Yeah 28. US wins every time, baby. It's funny, we got the best athletes, the best minds. We also got the worst. We also got a lot of unhealthy people. So it's an interesting country, but you can really

make it on your own here. You're proof of that. Country is really interesting right now. Very interesting. Crazy times. You mentioned fear earlier, fear of failure. Do you have any fears right now? Anything you're fearful of?

My biggest fears now are just my kids, helping them make good decisions. My twins are 19, and they're both moved out. They're kind of doing their own thing. That's been the biggest fear is because when they're your kids in your house, not that you have control, but at least you have more influence than when they're out. And so you're able to see stuff.

You still have little influence, but it's different. And it's like, I don't know, for me, that's my biggest fear. Business side, I'm kind of, whatever happens, doesn't happen, I'm fine with. But now it's just with my kids, that's my biggest fear. Just like, man, I want them to make good decisions, have a good life, and not make decisions that are hard to turn back.

You know what I mean? I think we'd all have to make failures and screw up, but there's decisions you can make that are hard to come back from. It's like, how do you guide them and protect them and all those kind of things when they're not in your house? Yeah, you sent them off to college? One just moved out and he's working right now now and then one went on a mission for our church

and so nice and they're twins and but they're two different directions like both of them have chosen way different paths in life and so it's just also interesting to watch that and and To be the biggest fan and to cheer them all but also like their parent who you're scared to death for me Yeah, it's it's it's been weird mentally for my wife and I just kind of had to deal with that over the last Years been different. I mean, that's why there's a term called helicopter parent. Have you heard of it? Sounds like your borderline We want to the good god like come back. It's a good thing I think I think parents love their kids so much, but sometimes they're two hands on sure

So you don't want to be that and you see that with sports with their kids They live through their kids in sports and then they've lost them. I've seen a lot I had some really good friends that way who were great athletes. But their parents were so on top of them that when they went away, they rebelled and disappeared. We had the number one recruit in the country when I was at Boise State who came.

Within two weeks of getting there, he disappeared. Damn. His parents had pushed him, and he was amazing. But just when he finally was out from the Under the finger of his parents. He just couldn't handle and just like yeah Yeah, they end up hating the sport because there's so much pressure, right? Yeah, but at the same time you do need some pressure I think for sure I think pressure is important. That's when I perform my best when my backs against the wall Yeah, I'm sure you're the same

I think it's also like it's self-imposed pressure like the pressure you decide that you choose. If someone else is choosing the pressure for you, that's when I think you rebel. Versus if it's like, I wanna do this, then I love the pressure. This event's crazy. We have 5,000 people, all this stuff happening. The pressure, this event's fun, but we chose it. We decided to do it, and we have a goal and an outcome

and things we're trying to do with it. And so I love that kind of pressure. Yeah, have you always had high pressure on yourself? Yeah. Ever since you were a kid? Ever since I started competing kind of pressure. Yeah. Have you always had high pressure on yourself? Yeah. Ever since you were a kid? Ever since I started competing as an athlete, yeah. I just function a lot better under that. Like, I struggle as a student where someone

would give you a homework assignment. You got two weeks to do it. I'm like, what? It's like, I would start the night before, like three hours before it starts. Like, I like that better. It's like, I function way better under pressure and chaos, which is tough for my team, because I think sometimes they're

like, Russell's just a ball of chaos. But it's like, I function better. And I think it's like, I had kind of ADHD brain. So I think what I've discovered with that is the more inputs that are happening, the less stressful you are. Like, if there's one focus, it's really hard. Because it's just like, you want to bounce all over.

I had this really weird, I was at some event. I sat next to this guy. He was like, he was the number one ADHD doctor in the world. Oh, was that Daniel Aiman? It wasn't Aiman. It event, I sat next to this guy who was like, he was the number one ADH doctor in the world. Oh, was that Daniel Amon? It wasn't Amon, it was, I can't remember the guy's name. ADHD. Anyway, but we're talking and he, and we're talking about stuff

and he told me he's like, with someone who's ADHD, he's like, he's like, the more inputs, the better. And it was fascinating, it's like, when I read my books, if I sit to the computer, try to write, it's a night, it's like, my brain's just like, whoa. So right now when I write, I have a treadmill desk. So I get a treadmill, I have these binaural beats

on my head and I'm walking and I'm typing and then I can function, I can focus so good. If I'm sitting there by myself, it's just like, I can't even do anything. I'm actually the same way now that you said it like that. Isn't it interesting? When I'm watching a podcast, it has to be on 2X speed. I gotta be like working while I'm doing it or driving.

It's just why, I don't know if you were saying, when a student, they said if you're a student and you fidget a lot, that's why. Because you're like, my hand's gonna be just something if I'm gonna pay attention to the teacher, because it's like, I can't. Non-stop, my language switch. I actually just got a scan at Amon Clinics.

Oh, is that cool? I wanted that so bad. You've gotta do it. It's been amazing. I'll connect you, yeah, they'll hook you up, and I found out I have ADHD. Very cool. That's very cool.

Well. That's like entrepreneurial, that's amazing, you have a superpower. It is a skill. Very cool. So that's well. That's like entrepreneurial. That's amazing. You have a superpower. It is a skill. We think about it's like, I don't know if you watch the X-Men, but the X-Men is like, these people have these insane powers.

And then the regular humans always want to like stifle their power so they can be like everybody else. That's why I feel like ADHD is like, it's the superpower. Yes, it can go, it can do really bad things. But like society, like kids are in school of ADHD and parents are in, teach them, give them drugs so they sit there calm. And society, like kids are in school of ADHD, and parents are teaching. Give them drugs, they'll sit there calm.

And it's like, you're like bearing their superpower. These guys are super heroes, and you're taking that away. Yep. They tried putting me on drugs in elementary school. Isn't that terrible? Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, that is awful. I think almost, not all, but most

of the hyper-successful people I know right now have ADHD. Like it's just, it's like a common thread amongst hyper successful people. And the normal people want to like suppress that, right? And it's like, it's a superpower if you understand it and you know how to harness it. It makes you wonder if they know that too and they're intentionally doing it, right? Could get a little nefarious.

Same with autism though. A lot of my successful friends of autism, have you seen that too? Yeah, yeah, they have a super, like, that's because they struggle here, but it's overinflated successfully here. You know what I mean? Yeah.

People are missing a leg where they get strong over here to compensate. It's like, anyway, yeah, it's really fascinating. No, it is interesting, man. But now you can sort of channel it, I feel like, autism and ADHD. For sure, if you understand, again, if you understand it and you're not under drugs to block it, then it's like now how do you, for me it's like I struggled in school.

When I got in business, I learned how to channel it because it's like, okay, if I take all this and I'm focusing on a thing, then yeah, it becomes a superpower. But in school, we have to sit there and listen to teach and regurgitate back and forth. It's like, this is like everything I'm used to doing, this is the opposite. My brain can't function this way, you know? It was too slow for me. Yeah. It just felt so like I would go crazy in class.

Yeah. I was bouncing off the walls. I would ask to go to the bathroom every single class. I was so bored. Like weren't you super bored? Yeah, but like, yeah, I got terrible grades too. Yeah. And I felt I tied my identity to that when I was younger.

I always thought I was dumb. Yes. You feel the same way? Same. I thought I was so stupid. I even got voted like most likely to that when I was younger. I always thought I was dumb. Do you feel the same way? Same. I thought I was so stupid. I even got voted most likely to fail. Really? Yeah.

That was one of the things people thought about? Thanks, teachers. That's the worst. Yeah. I got life of the party, most likely to fail. Because I wrapped my identity in poor grades, so let me rebel and drink and party. That was my high school mentality.

Interesting. Yeah, I always thought I was dumb. And then when I started my business, I was doing a couple things and trying some stuff. And I remember going to an event and someone had seen my stuff and like, oh, you're Russell. I saw you. You're thinking, that's so brilliant.

And it was the first time anyone had ever not told me I was dumb. And I was like, whoa, am I smart? And I kept doing some stuff. And then people were like, that was really cool. The way you said that. And again, I started getting this input. I'm like, that was really cool. The way you said that. And again, I started getting this input. I'm like, I'm not dumb.

This is great news. I'm just different. Okay, I'm not dumb. So my identity, I was able to break it from being a dumb kid to this. And yeah, it's weird. You said that you attached your identity to. What was it for you that you broke the identity to shift?

I think getting into entrepreneurship, similar to you. So I'm half Asian, so I always thought I was dumb because Asians Stereotypically get the best grades, right? So all my Asian friends were getting like 4.0 like perfect SAT scores I'm getting like a 2.7. So that sucked and then Asians like to compare So like my Asian parents would compare with other Asian parents So I just felt dumb because of grades but then getting into business Making some money that can kind of change your mindset a little bit I feel like if you give you that confidence that I didn't have.

And then yeah, started networking, talking to people, and they were talking to me like I was normal. Asians wouldn't even hang out with me in school. Really? Because I didn't get good enough grades. That's crazy. Yeah, I blended more in with the athletes. So it was interesting, man.

I remember the first time when I was in college, there was this kid that was like the smartest kid in my class. I hated him because he was so smart. And then I remember fast forward three or four years later, he came and applied for a job for me. And I was like, hire him. Like, for what am I? I don't care.

I just want to be able to tell everybody that that guy now works for me. Because I was like, for me. And so he worked for me for like three or four months and didn't work out. But I was just like, specifically, I just wanted to be able to like tell my mom, like, hey, this kid was like the honor or the valedictorian And he works for me now. Yeah, did you get bullied a lot?

Not but I was a wrestler so I didn't get bullied cuz cuz of that but I have a lot of friends I wasn't like I wasn't socially I was not the life of the party. I was got an awkward kid He was wrestling or even a wrestling trips. I go on these like when I was a Boise State We go on these like 18 hour bus rides to Portland to go wrestle or whatever. Damn, you didn't fly? Yeah, Boise State was really poor. Yeah, it was before our football team got good. We had no money as a school.

And so all the guys would just sleep the whole ride there. And I remember I would go and this is before, anyway, before podcasts and stuff. But I would go and there was a couple of guys like Armand Moore and a couple of guys who were out teaching marketing stuff. They do teleseminars. If I download the teleseminars, burn them on CDs. I would go and there's a couple guys like Armand Moore and a couple guys who were out teaching marking stuff So I would be they do tell us seminars If I download the tell us them or burn them on CDs and so I take this big old stack of CDs on these long road

Trips, I just listen these CDs of these guys You're talking. Wow. I remember one of my teammates later I came to me is like man when we used to go on those long trips and you'd be sitting back there listening to Your thing while we're all sleeping. He's like we all thought you were gonna kill us or something He was like it was so weird. So that was kind of mine. I was never bullied, but I'm sure I was just kind of weird. The weird kid that's kind of off, the people are like, all right, whatever.

Yeah, and now those kids are like running the country. Like all the people that I used to get made fun of or thought you were different. Yeah. You know, cause we're breaking the mold. Yeah. That's funny though, man. I'd love to see that.

I'd love to see your brain scan too. I wanna see it too. I heard about Aiman a while ago and I always wanted to go and just haven love to see your brain scan, too Okay, I want to see it you like I heard about aiming a while ago I always wanted to go and just haven't had a chance to do it. I wouldn't be surprised if you had ADHD Yeah, I think one recognizes one. Yeah We feel the same. Yeah, that's so cool So one of the things I heard you say on a show was if you could go and ask yourself at 25 Or go tell yourself something at age 25. What would you say?

And you said you wish you would have built a team earlier. That really resonated with me, because I've been solo for a while. So you said that was one of your biggest regrets. Yeah, I had this weird epiphany that I can't remember when it was, but you think about when we become entrepreneurs, we're almost like, when we become the All-Star, right?

I think about, I'm Michael Jordan in my sport, right? I'm the best, I can do everything. And you have to learn how to do all this stuff, right? I had to learn how to write copy and drive traffic and build pages, you know? So you become an all-star, you can do everything. And then even for me, when I first started building a team, it was hard for me because I'd build a team,

but then they'd be doing something, and then for me it was like, I'd like steal the ball from them and dunk on it, dunk anyway, because it's like, well they're doing it but I can do better, you know, and I would build a team, I wasn't like empowering them and I had this realization, I'm like, for me to get to the next level, I can't be the all-star, I have to become a coach.

And if I become a coach and I can build an all-star team, that's the transition point. And as we started doing that, it was crazy. In fact, my business partner now, Todd Dickerson, he's the one who built ClickFunnels, the first version by himself. And I remember we had thiserson, he's the one who built ClickFunnels, the first version by himself. And I remember we had this conversation.

He'd read an article or something. It said that difference between an A player and a B player, an A player can get 3,200 times more done than a B player. Something crazy like that. And he's like, we've just got to find a whole bunch of A players to surround ourselves with, and we'll be able to do what most teams take thousands of people to do, right?

And sure enough, we start bringing in the right team. That's when everything just blew up for us. And it was just like, this is crazy. And when I was able to put my ego again, here comes the ego. Put the ego down. And like, OK, my job is not so much just distill the ball from him and try to dunk.

It's like, how do I try to coach them and guide them based on my experience? But let them do their thing. Let them figure it out. And let them become the A players in each of their individual divisions. And like, we started doing more of that. That's when, yeah, things started blossoming,

growing at a rate, just ridiculous. It's an interesting dynamic, because as a business owner, you want to save on costs, right? So typically hiring, you want to save, but at the same time, you don't want to cheap out on talent. It's backward, yeah, it's weird, because yeah, you always try to get like, well, who's the cheapest person?

It's like, well, who's the most expensive if you can do the work of 10 people? Right. And like, you know, and I see that time with like developers, it's weird, because yeah, I'll show you, who's the cheapest person? It's like, well, who's the most expensive if you can do the work of 10 people? Right. And I see that all the time with developers, where it's just like, it's funny, you get the college graduated developers who have all the degrees and stuff, and they're very structured in their thinking,

because they went through school, and then you find this hacker who just graduated from high school, who is living in a basement with his mom, and he comes in and he just laps these guys. That one dude, because he's so passionate, his whole life's been geeking out on coding and stuff like he can be all these like MBAs Or whatever the equivalent of you know Developers, but it's just it's just fascinating like that. So it's like man

How do you find the person who's like the most obsessed with the thing and like bring those people into your world? That's how you mmm. I say you see the inexpensive expensive growth Yeah, do you think that obsession is teachable? I always think about this because People ask me like how I work so much. I'm like, is that even teachable? Yeah, you know I don't know because it comes back to desire right? I think about this a lot because I don't think I Don't think you can teach desire. I think I think desire comes from God. We get planted, we have desires for things. So I think if someone does not have the desire to do something, it's almost impossible

to get them to have desire. I don't know how to do that. I've tried with my kids, if there's something they want, I cannot get them desire. But if someone's got a little bit of desire, I think you can fan that flame and you can help grow it. And so I think obsession, if they have a desire already, I think you can turn it into an obsession.

But if they don't have that, it's almost impossible. Agreed. Yeah, initially mine came from getting bullied, I think, proving people wrong. But then when that happened, I had to find a new desire. Mm-hmm. Has that happened to you, where you've had to shift your fuel?

100%. Yeah. First of me is saying that I want to figure out, make money, show everyone that I figured it out. And then I don't know if it's the same for you after that started happening. I was like, it doesn't actually feel like what I thought it was gonna feel like.

Right, they don't really care. And you get this emptiness in like, huh. And then for me, it was interesting because the next phase was I started seeing people we were helping and seeing them have success. And then I was like, oh, that feels better. In fact, I remember this because for me, my favorite feeling of all time was like,

I went to a wrestling match, I got my hand raised. That was the greatest feeling of all time. And I never thought I'd get better than that. And then my son started wrestling, my son's. And one of my sons, he was really bad. His first season, he didn't win a single match the entire season. And every time he got the match, just crying.

It was so hard. And we worked, like, meeting him, we worked so hard. And anyway, the very last match of the season, he beat the kid. He won his first match. And he gets off the thing. He's jumping around. He comes over, and the ref raises his hand.

He had the biggest smile on his face. And I was like, that feels better than when I won. Wow. And I feel like the same thing with my students. Like, first, like, I was having success, and I'm like, this is amazing. This feels so good. But the first time someone else did and they had success, I was like, whoa, that feels way better.

Like helping them actually feels better. And then that became the next obsession for me. And then that's when I think it changes. I love that. No, I could see that too. Like even just like when I give homeless people food, it feels like amazing. Like better than anything I do for myself.

It's such a indescribable feeling, right? Like the value you get out of that is insane, yeah. Yeah, someone needs to figure out what's going on there in the body. It feels amazing, it's like addicting when you help other people with nothing in return. And I wish more people thought like that. A lot of people are innately selfish.

I think in order to survive, it's like a prehistoric mindset. So I could see why. I mean, I was pretty selfish going up. Yeah What was the shift for you? I? Think having resources helped But even if you don't have resources, I think you could still be pretty giving with time and other other things Yeah, but I think death honestly had some close ones pass away and realize yeah, you never know. It's gonna be over

Yeah, let me start doing some positive stuff. Yeah, you know for the time you got yeah It's interesting. Yeah, well Russell. It's been awesome. I can't wait to go to your van. It'll be my first one Yeah, so I can't wait to come anything else you want to close off with here man? and I think if Please say if if anyone wants to learn how to sell minus we do help people do that We have a big event we do once a month teaching people how to sell mine if you guys want to come and hang out To that event it have a big event we do once a month teaching people how to sell online. If you guys want to come and hang out to that event. It's a virtual event, but that's kind of the coolest big thing

we do all the time. And I'm not glad to, grateful for you allowing me to be here. And finally, we've been talking to us for a couple years, I feel like. Yeah. We finally had a chance to make it all work. You were on my dream 100 list, man. Oh, yeah.

Let's go. That's amazing. Yeah, I'll link your stuff below. Thanks for watching, guys. I'll see you next time.