Digital Social Hour - How Killers Exploit Police Loopholes to Escape | Alex Cody Foster DSH #1190

Episode Date: February 19, 2025

How do killers exploit police loopholes to escape justice? 🕵️‍♂️ Tune in to this captivating episode of the Digital Social Hour with Sean Kelly, featuring Alex Cody Foster—a true crime expert and writer with jaw-dropping insights into the mind-boggling world of serial killers and law enforcement blind spots. 🚨  Alex shares chilling accounts of the Smiley Face Killer phenomenon, the dark web of cult-like killer groups, and the investigative loopholes that help these criminals evade capture. From his harrowing personal experiences to uncovering conspiracies that could change history, this episode is packed with valuable insights you won’t hear anywhere else. 😱  Don’t miss Alex’s stories about his own tumultuous journey, encounters with criminals, and his groundbreaking work on "We Hunt Serial Killers." Watch now and subscribe for more insider secrets on the Digital Social Hour with Sean Kelly! 📺 Hit that subscribe button and stay tuned for more eye-opening stories! 🚀🎙️ CHAPTERS: 00:00 - Intro 01:32 - Smiley Face Killers 02:38 - Your Mother 06:27 - Your Grandfather 09:56 - How Alex Found Himself 13:07 - Alex’s Last Experience 17:01 - Alex’s First Ghostwriting Gig 19:38 - Empathy in Ghostwriting 22:10 - Transition to Cinematography 23:32 - Long Island Serial Killer Case 29:40 - FBI Report Insights 31:40 - Netflix Series Analysis 34:30 - Trump and Missing Children 35:40 - John McAfee 38:00 - Alex’s Premonition of McAfee’s Death 44:50 - Alex’s Book Deal with Bitcoin Founder 46:56 - John McAfee Discussion 48:40 - The Rat 52:20 - Monetizing True Crime 57:16 - The Dark Side of True Crime 58:28 - Exploring Karma 59:30 - We Hunt Serial Killers 1:03:15 - What's Next for You 1:04:07 - Future Projects 1:04:10 - Wrapping Up 1:04:12 - Importance of Authenticity 1:04:50 - Outro APPLY TO BE ON THE PODCAST: https://www.digitalsocialhour.com/application BUSINESS INQUIRIES/SPONSORS: [e-mail] GUEST: Alex Cody Foster https://www.instagram.com/alexfosterghostwriter/ https://www.alexfosterghostwriter.com/ LISTEN ON: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/digital-social-hour/id1676846015 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5Jn7LXarRlI8Hc0GtTn759 Sean Kelly Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seanmikekelly/ #horrorstories #patrickmcneill #kevingannon #scarystories #truecrime

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Long flight from Maine, right? It was actually, it had a bunch of delays and it ended up being like 12 and a half hours. Holy crap. Was it snowing out there? Yeah, it was snowing. They had to de-ice the plane. We were running out of fuel when we were coming in because Trump was here. Oh, wow.

So they wouldn't allow us to land because there's so much air traffic. So we had to reroute because we were running out of fuel. Back to Phoenix, get fuel and then come back here. Dude, that's crazy. It's been a shit show, man. I went to Minneapolis before. I had to do two extra days because I had to overnight in different cities because of delays,

but it's worth it, man. It's fun. I love travel. I love it. Were you out in Minneapolis doing interviews or what were you doing there? Yeah, I was there for We Hunt Serial Killers. It's the project that I started in 2024. And there are a lot of cases in Minneapolis and lacrosse

that belong to the alleged smiley face killer phenomenon. And so we were out there, actually on behalf of iHeartRadio, we just got a green light that I'm doing a show with. So we're out there interviewing a lot of victims, families and eyewitnesses and stuff. Yeah, so smiley face killers, how many of them are there allegedly?

That is a very good question. So my former partner and friend, Kevin Gannon, he's the detective who broke the story back in 1997 with the case of Patrick McNeil. And he believes that there are over a thousand members. He and his team. Yeah. That's crazy.

There are a thousand members. I haven't been able to verify that, but I know that there is a coordinated group effort and that these guys have been working together for a long time. So I think that there are at least dozens of members. And I think originally it was just a small group of killers who sort of found each other during the advent

of the internet age in the late nineties and started working together and killing people. That's way more than I expected. I thought it'd be like a handful. Yeah. That's pretty scary, man. When you take all of the potential cases and put them together, it's over 700.

So it could be the biggest serial killer cult in history. Whoa. That is crazy. Speaking of cults. Oh yeah, that's fun stuff. Perfect segue into your mother, man. So was it your mother and father or just your mother? Just my mom.

Yeah, just my mom. I talked about it a bit. You probably heard on the Mike Ritlin joke. Had a pretty weird upbringing. I say pretty weird and then other people say that's a trauma response. Just say you had a shit child. Yeah, you're right. So, you know, it was pretty bad and that's why I moved out of my house when I was 15. I moved into college campus with my my girlfriend at the time who's a college student and 15 almost 16. Yeah, I was like on the cusp. Yeah, I know each state is different, right? Yeah, so Yeah, but my mother

She tried but she wasn't the best a lot of the time and she tried to kill me one time and That created a falling out obviously and she also one time and that created a falling out obviously. And she also joined a cult. And I haven't talked to her since, it's been like five years or something. So how old were you when she joined it? It was recently? It was like eight years ago.

Eight years? I'm 32, so yeah, I was in my 20s. My career was just kind of like kicking off and I lost my mom to the cult. I wonder how they convinced her at her age, because usually cults, I feel like they start younger, right? She's always been sort of culty. She's had this, I don't know,

this predilection towards different belief systems. There are some people who they just crave some sense of purpose and belonging. We all do. We all crave that, and that's why we have our family units and our partners and our friends. But some people crave it, I think, in a very negative aspect.

And this makes them go off the deep end and give all of their wealth, all of their belongings up, everything that they have to the higher power, which is usually a human being trying to fleece them. So I think that's really the mentality of most cults. And that's why certain impressionable people go with the hook, line and sinker. My mom being one of them.

Damn, that's scary, man. It's okay. I don't know. She's having a grand old time, I bet. I don't really know. You keep tabs or no? No. You don't even try to talk to her at this point?

She is living in our old family home, which was repoed by the bank like three years ago or something like that. She stopped paying her mortgage. And so technically she doesn't own the home anymore, but she's been squatting in it. Get ready for Las Vegas style action at BedMGM, the king of online casinos.

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BedMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. And she hasn't left the home in over a year. Holy crap. Yeah, she doesn't even go outside. What? Yeah, she's afraid to go outside. She thinks the government is like bugging her and- Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's pretty bad. I have three siblings and only one of them talks to her now. He's got a bigger heart than we do, I think.

Well, you can only put up with so much, right? I mean, she tried to kill you. I mean, that's- Yeah, I feel like I get a free pass on that one. Yeah, that's crazy. Was she under some drug influence or something? No, no, she wasn't. But really weird family history.

She's German. And basically when my older sister and brother were kids, she met my father who was American. He was traveling to Europe. And anyway, my mom, I found this out when I went to Germany when I was 21 to like discover who my family really was and what the true story was behind my mother abandoning her kids in Europe.

And she met my father, I guess they fell in love. She joined him on the trip back to America and left her kids, abandoned her kids there, my brother and my sister, and got married to my dad, had me, my other brother, and eventually brought my older brother back, but my sister didn't want to. So I never met her.

I didn't meet her until I was 21. And the story always growing up from my mom, and I would like hear her crying in the bedroom. I didn't meet her until I was 21. And the story always growing up from my mom and I would like hear her crying in the bedroom, I didn't know why. And this is why is because she left her daughter and she always felt guilty. But she left Europe because she was, my grandfather later found out

was running away from Interpol. Whoa. Because she had, yeah, she had fleeced a bunch of old people of their retirement money or something and some scams. She was always doing that sort of thing. And so she was wanted by the law. She saw my dad, perfect opportunity. Gotta thank her in some way because that's how I was born.

And then escaped to America and never went back. Damn. Yeah. That is some crazy family history, man. Yeah, and I went over there, she never knew her father. Yeah, he disappeared when she was two years old. Whoa. Never heard from him again.

And so I went to Germany when I was 21 and with my cousin, we tracked down what happened to her father. He actually, he abandoned her and her sister and their mother and went to a new part of Germany and started a whole new family. And he had, during World War II, had seen some atrocities, some really terrible things. So he kind of like lost his mind.

And as far as we knew, the last like 12 years of his life, he spent in asylum. Geez. And it was around that time that I had lost my mind from some crazy shit that I experienced in Los Angeles as like a homeless kid, and which set me up for this journey today, what I do now, that I was terrified that maybe I had inherited

my grandfather's mental illness because my mother clearly had it. She had whatever it is, She's never been tested. But that was a big fear for a while until what I was struggling with went away and it never came back. Thank God. Yeah. Knock on wood. You never know. Yeah. It sounds like psychotic episodes or something. Yeah. Exactly. Yep. Yeah. I was actually same thing happened to me. My grandfather was wild. Really? He physically abused my dad. So he had some mental trauma. I'm sure the same thing happened to him.

So I was scared that I was gonna come out like kind of messed up too. I think when you have a really strong constitution, I could be wrong about this, but this is my belief, is that when you have a strong constitution and a good heart and a good head on your shoulders, you can kind of prevent that genealogical shit that skips generations and comes to haunt you

in your own life. I think really like we have a sense of power that may not be scientifically viable or understood, but it's there. I agree. Yeah. Yeah, I think the odds, like if you're just like higher IQ, the odds are higher, but you can kind of mitigate that.

I don't think I fit into that category. Well, you just look at like a lot of smart people deal with mental health issues I've noticed. Yep, big time. I think they just get in their own head. They do, and they have a predisposition. A lot of their family members, I think, have that as well. They have super high IQs, they're very intelligent,

and they're overthinkers. I mean, I'm an that as well. They have super high IQs, they're very intelligent and they're overthinkers. I mean, I'm an overthinker. I know how deep and dark that rabbit hole can go. Never ending. I used to overthink every conversation. Me too. I used to analyze like, oh, they reacted that way. Why'd they do that?

What stopped it? That's a good question. I don't think it was a specific thing. I think it was just a bit of microdosing, bit of self-reflection, realizing I had trauma growing up that I didn't know I had because I thought my life was normal, similar to you. Exactly.

Because you just, you don't talk to kids about how they're raised, so you just assume it's normal. It's a cyclical, it's a cyclical nature of trauma, right? And I did something similar. Dude, I was totally gone. For two and a half years, my mind was gone. Wow. And so I was just like for two and a half years. My mind was gone. And so I was just like traveling the world,

this homeless, penniless vagabond, trying to find some semblance of self again. And I couldn't because I was running away from myself, my selfhood, whatever the thing that was haunting me was, which I found out I was just running from it. So I was like, let's go live in South America. Let's go live in Europe. Let's go hitchhike around America for six months,

because I was trying to escape myself. And when I realized that's what was happening, I was on this four month journey along the inside passage to Alaska. I started meditating every day and just coming to grips with the fucked up childhood that I had that I didn't really know I had. And with the crazy things that happened to me

when I was on the road. I think you saw in the other interview, I believe that I met a serial killer who wanted to rape and murder me. I prevented it, but that experience changed my life. And I couldn't sleep on the streets of LA because you couldn't escape, you couldn't go anywhere. You're literally, you're naked

because you can't sleep inside a building with four walls and a ceiling. You're literally exposed to the elements. You're on a sidewalk, people driving by, they can see you. And I thought this guy would find me. So I didn't sleep for six nights. Yeah. Yeah. And then ironically, it was so weird.

I was climbing the wisdom tree in the Hollywood Hills. That's why it's ironic because that's where I lost my mind. It just like shifted. And then I had perpetual PTSD for two and a half years, just fight or flight, everything terrified me. Holy crap. Every moment of every waking moment,

and even my dreams, I was haunted by these horrible nightmares. But on that journey along the inside passage, meditating, coming to grips with what the world was and who I was and what I had experienced, I finally let it go. And I feel like I've been a somewhat sane individual ever since, somewhat.

Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't be able to tell you went through all this with how you're presenting yourself right now, so well done, man. Yeah, I think you've done a lot of self-development. Thanks, man. I mean, being homeless for two and a half years, that could not have been easy. Oh, it wasn't that long.

Well, I mean, technically, yeah, I was homeless for like half a year in LA. Geez. Well, LA and a half years, I could not have- Oh, it wasn't that long. Well, I mean, technically, yeah, I was homeless for like half a year in LA. Geez. Well, LA and across the country, I was hitchhiking and stuff. And then for two years, I was, two and a half years, I was just bouncing around the world. Couchsurfing.

Yeah, couchsurfing, homeless in some stints for sure. I had like just all these odd jobs. I would live on farms. I would like, I worked on this farm and on the West coast in this little shack and an apple orchard with no running water or electricity. I was just- Was it Amish farm or?

No, this one wasn't. It was an organic peach and apple farm. Yeah, it was pretty cool, but it was weird, man. I bet, man. Well, you got a lot of life experience at your young age. So why'd you choose Alaska? Cause being homeless in Alaska doesn't sound like a fun. You know, it's freezing.

Good question. I was on this website when I was a teenager called findacrew.net. And cause ever since I was a kid, like 13, 14 years old, I just wanted to escape. I wanted to jump on a freighter and just like drift around the world and experience the world.

I actually tried to do that one time when I was drowned because the rope was slack and I tried to shimmy onto a ship. In the middle of winter, that was a bad time. But anyway, I was on that website and for some reason someone hit me up and this was during like the peak of my lunacy and they said, Alex, your profile is great because you cook, you know, I had been cooking

since I was very young and we would love to have you on board four months along the inside passage. We're on an 82 foot yacht. You would be a deckhand crew, the sole crew, the only one, chef, everything. And I jumped at the opportunity because in my mind, that was my last experience. I thought, I'm gonna go on this ship.

I'm afraid of water, I can't swim. I'm gonna go on the ship and I'm gonna fix my mind or I'm not, you know, or I'll find some, I hate to say it, some real quiet, beautiful place, someplace along the journey and I'll jump off the boat. But that never happened, thank God. Wow, so you were suicidal at that time. I just wanted to end, yeah, two and a half years

of feeling panic, like a two and a half year panic attack. That's crazy. It was insane. And it was the most difficult experience I've ever had and ever will have in my opinion. And honestly, the greatest thing that ever happened to me. Wow. Because it made me who I am today.

I like who I am, I like what I do. And I think I have, I'm more attuned to a purpose that I didn't know I had before. And ever since I aligned with this purpose, it's like incredible opportunities, wonderful things just fall into place. Cause we're not fighting against it and swimming against the current anymore.

So yeah, Alaska was the final frontier in more ways than one. That's where you really discovered yourself. Oh yeah, yeah. It was very surreal, man. I like getting off that boat in Seattle after four months and the whole experience, it was really, it was multifaceted because I'm in some

of the most beautiful places in the world and I'm feeling so at peace and I'm meditating every day. But then I'm working with the very type of personality that I really don't like. Very, very wealthy, narcissistic couple who just hated everything. Really? Yeah. Were you on a fishing boat or?

No, I was on a private yacht. Okay. Sorry. And I would work like 16 hour days, seven days a week. I never had to be off. They said in all 32 years that they had been doing that journey, no one had ever stayed the full four months. I knew why very quickly.

But I stayed and I got off that boat in Seattle and I'm like, I'm listening to the boat yard, all the heavy machinery, the airplanes droning overhead, the like loud noises, the smog, all that like desolation that used to just scare the hell out of me because it would just remind me of death. And I was totally at peace with it. I was just like looking around, like, this is okay.

Wait a minute, I'm not afraid. I'm not afraid anymore. It was this really stark realization. Two and a half years, you're in this constant fear. And then suddenly you realize it's gone. Oh my God, man. It was like the greatest high I've ever had. I bet. Yeah.

Wow. What was the next step from there? I decided to become a writer. I had so many stories that I experienced along that journey. And I realized I probably had one of my own and this is something I've always sort of been aloof about and people, I was a ghostwriter for 10 years and everyone, a lot of the people I worked with, they'd say, Alex, you should write your own story.

Like, holy shit, man, you've been through a lot. I just kind of laughed it off. I'm like, I don't really think so. But I realized at some point I should, and that's why I wrote my own book. But at that time I was 21, and I've always been fascinated by stories of the human experience.

So I decided I'm gonna write about them. And it was within about a year, I got my first ghost writing gig by accident. Turned out to be a sociopath, I murdered his wife, but you know, that was, it was a gig until I fired him. You know. And that's a whole podcast right there.

It was wild. Yeah, that dude was a dick. Yeah. Yeah. Don't share journals with me. If you say you're gonna try to murder your wife, I'm gonna talk about it. Wow.

I'm gonna take issue with that. Come on. Why did he wanna murder her? He wanted to gain custody of his kid. Wow. So he was very sporadic, very emotional, it sounds like. Oh yeah. Oh yeah, man, it was bad.

And he owed me like two months of back pay. Damn. And I was broke. I was like, you know, I was relying on that money to come in and it didn't, but that situation is what catapulted my career as a ghostwriter very early on. Everything happens for a reason, right?

I think so. That's crazy. Why do you think he didn't wanna pay? Cause obviously he had the money, a dude was worth a lot of money. He didn't wanna pay because I confronted him about the, yeah. The back pack.

The journal entry, yeah, that he'd given me to ghostwrite his memoir. And I confronted him about that. I said, hey man, like you mentioned these thoughts about murdering your ex-wife. Ah, that doesn't sit right with me. We gotta talk about this. This is bad.

And so he's just like, yeah, well, we're not gonna work together anymore. So I'm not gonna pay you for the last like two months of work. Yeah, he just, that's what he did. Never got the money and that's fine. Yeah. And there was a lot of drama around him, right?

When you were with him. I mean, you told me out there, you got kidnapped once with him. Oh, that was John. Yeah. That was John Max. Oh, that was a different person you're talking about? Yeah, John.

This was my first client of all time. Got it. And he turned out to be like a sociopath. Oh God, I thought you were talking about John this whole time. Sorry, man, no. John was a sociopath too, all the way. That's why I thought you were talking about him.

John's story is crazier than all of them for sure. Wow, so you just, you attract these, I don't know what to call it, like. Eccentric people. Yeah. Crazy people. They're just drawn to you for some reason. They are, they are. And Like these person- Eccentric people. Yeah. Crazy people. They're just drawn to you for some reason. They are, they are.

And it was like that on the streets too. It was fascinating. It's always been a thing. People have noticed about me, my friends, my family. They're like, how do you attract these just eccentric, controversial, wild people? And I think it's largely because I was kind of one of them, like a black sheep growing up, but they do, man, they're everywhere.

Even on the streets, people would gravitate to me and people with wild stories, wild stories, almost like they knew I was a writer and in some way were trying to get their story told. Interesting. Must be something about your energy that gives them comfort to confide. Maybe, yeah.

And as a writer, that's perfect. Yeah, dude, you have to have empathy as a ghost writer. If you don't have empathy, and if you're biased, and if you're like, you lean more to the left or more to the right, and you like impart your own biases to your craft, then you're doing a disservice to humanity, in my opinion, because stories, all stories should be told.

All powerful stories in the human experience, whether on the left or the right, whether you believe in aliens or you don't, you're a human being and these human stories, I think, are what connect people and kind of elevate them. Yeah, I didn't even think about it. But yeah, when I'm reading books, you probably want the ghost to be objective as possible. Yeah, you have to be, just them. Yeah, I didn't even think about it at, but yeah, when I'm reading books, you probably want the ghost writer

to be objective as possible. Yeah, you have to be, just like a therapist, you know? Which a lot of the interviews, it felt like therapy for my clients because it's a very cathartic experience. Right, because they've never shared some of these stories. So to finally get it off their chest must be like so relieving.

Yeah, man. I went to dinner last night with an old client of mine. He's wonderful. And he's sitting there talking to me. He's like, you know what, Alex? You know more about me than anybody. Anybody. He's like, cause he kind of teared up a little bit

during the chat, which he had done in the past. And he was, he's such a stoic, like strong person. And, but he would kind of have little breakdowns when he would realize what I had to realize to get my mind back was like, you went through some shit and that's okay. And he, yeah, that's when he looked at me, he was like, damn, Alex, you know everything about me.

I said, well, hopefully not. Yeah, you'd be surprised. A lot of these ballers, you know, behind the scenes, they're dealing with some stuff. So much stuff. Yeah, because usually to get to that level, you had to overcome some big trauma or something. Big time. So yeah, it must be relieving for them to share their stories. Finally, I think so and I I don't really go straight books anymore

not not really I just focus on like the movies and True crime books under my own name, but I still every once in a while I'll find a phenomenal powerful story and I have to tell it. Mm-hmm I have to I learned so much from every single client and I have to tell it. I have to, I learned so much from every single client that I've ever worked with. I bet, yeah. What made you shift from writing more

towards the cinematography side? I totally, again, purely by accident, I love movies. I've always loved movies because I'm a storyteller and I love good stories. And so with the John McAfee situation, that was an accident. But then I did the Netflix film, Running with the Devil. And that kind of changed the whole trajectory of my career

because then I started getting flooded. It was the number one Netflix film in the world for two weeks. And I was just flooded by people from people all over the world with phenomenal stories. And a lot of them were true crime stories because that story is rooted in true crime. And so I took on one of them.

It was about the Long Island serial killer, this kid out of New York who believed that he was almost victim and he had discovered an entire conspiracy. And he, I believe, was the first person or the only person in American history to bring down a sitting district attorney. Wow.

And a chief of police. And anyway, that was a harrowing experience because my investigation and his as well, for sure, uncovered that there were at least five men in positions of power, wealthy, blue bloods, in that area who had been preying on women for decades. Damn. And the number of victims,

it's not what they're saying regarding Rex Herrmann, who I think largely as a patsy, I think has been potentially framed by some of the actual killers who had every means to do so. I think, yeah, sorry, not I think, but the evidence that I uncovered pointed to almost a hundred victims. Holy crap. Between this group who,

very similar to the smiley face thing, were disparate individuals just doing their own thing. They liked killing, but then they found each other and created this group, and they found camaraderie and killing. And that's what I believe is happening with smiley face. In fact, I don't really like to call them smiley face killers. That's largely a product of the media.

I call them the river men because the one underlying commonality between every single case is a river or a body of water. A smiley face graffiti, I think it's the very definition of what we call circumstantial evidence. It's at some of the scenes, but not others.

It, there are Xs on the eyes, and then sometimes there's not. They're upside down smiley faces. They're frowny faces. It's just, it mud, it muddies the waters of the investigation so much in my opinion. I don't like to rely on that as evidence. I need hard facts, but yeah,

I do believe it is a group working together. It's crazy. Something like that can exist in 2025 with all the cameras everywhere and satellites. Like it just blows my mind. Well, I'll tell you why. And you're absolutely right. That's one of the biggest everywhere and satellites, like it just blows my mind. Well, I'll tell you why. And you're absolutely right. That's one of the biggest, you know,

things that one thinks about when they consider if this is possible, because it seems impossible. And it would be if these cases were examined as homicides from the start, but they never are. And that's what I call the twisted brilliance of this group is that they know investigative methods. They know law enforcement methodology. They know so acutely what law enforcement does.

And if they frame these perfect crimes as drownings by just another drunk college kid, they're not examined as anything else. Wow. Not examined as- It's like a loophole. Yeah, but huge. It's a big blind spot.

And so what happens is in the first couple of weeks, once the body is found, typically weeks or even months after the abduction, and this is crazy, but usually the bodies show only a couple of days of decomposition. So they had been held for a long period of time somewhere else before they were found.

And I don't know my, shit, where was I going with this? The bodies are held for a couple of days. Yeah, bodies were held for several, for weeks or months even. And, It was a drowning. Oh yeah, so yeah, that's it, exactly. So they, the law enforcement sees it as a drowning.

They write it off as a drowning. Within those first few weeks from the body recovery, like 90% of any potential evidence is gone. They contaminate the scene, they walk over it, they don't, sometimes they don't even like put up the tape, they don't cordon off the area, they don't, they miss evidence and signs that will be gone forever, such as like surveillance tapes, you know,

where the kid supposedly walked across a bridge, okay, where are the surveillance tapes of that? If you don't look for it, those get taped over after a couple of months, they're gone forever. Wow. So the killers, I believe, know this and they rely on it because once this is discovered, typically after the family hires

their own private investigators and evidence starts popping up as a potential homicide, the law enforcement agencies lose their shit and they're like, oh God, like that's like the seventh kid over the past couple of years. Now we are in deep water because we didn't investigate it properly and we could lose our jobs, our pensions, our career,

we could lose everything. So we have to cover this up a little bit. And I'm not saying that that's what cops do. I'm saying some precincts around the country, they, first of all, they're overworked and underfunded and stressed out. And I think in those situations, people accidentally miss out on clues

and they don't cover it up. They just, they miss out. They miss it most of the time. That's what the killers rely on. But sometimes I think that there could be potential coverups or at least just outright denials. Just no, no, we know an eighth kid showed up in the river, but it's just an accidental drowning.

I know that there was no water in the lungs, but it was still an accidental drowning. It was a dry drowning. Okay, I know these are a lot of dry drownings and the facts don't really add up, but it's not a serial killer. It's definitely not a serial killer. So the killers rely on this.

And that's partly why they are so good at getting away with it. Right, the cops don't wanna take accountability because their jobs could be on the line, right? Some of the cops, I would say the majority are amazing at what they do. They're really good. They're also overworked and underpaid.

But sometimes, yeah, sometimes I think that is the case. Sometimes with bad cops, like not the majority of law enforcement. Yeah, that's with any industry. There'll always be bad apples in any job. Yeah, in any industry, exactly. Yeah, that's crazy. So has it gotten to the point where federal agents are involved? The FBI did a full report on the alleged murders

in La Crosse, I believe it was La Crosse, and they said that they found no evidence of homicide. Whoa. That was a while ago. What? Yeah, and I find that extremely hard to believe. You got one, one of the kids was exsanguineated. He was drained of blood.

What? Yeah, he was drained of blood and in a way that the medical examiner could not even detect. It's not like they, you know, they cut him right here in the jugular. No, they couldn't detect how the blood had been drained from his entire body.

But based on the levitity of the corpse from the photographs, like Kevin Gannon and his team looked at, it appeared that the victim might've been held upside down, hanging upside down and drained of blood. Geez. You know, you got people who were found in the same location up river, upstream, physically impossible, you can't float upstream.

You know, all these cases of, you know, they're gone for two weeks to two months, but the bodies only show signs of decomposition for a period of like 12 to 84 hours. So where were they the rest of the time while they were clearly alive, you know, just there were articles of clothing and personal belongings that would show up at this Hiawatha statue in La Crosse

and right by the river. And the people would go missing and then their ball cap would show up, hang on a pole or, you pole or their wallet would be found, stacked very neatly on some of their clothing right there. And just so many bizarre circumstances surrounding these deaths. So I just find it incredibly weird and suspicious

that the FBI would write them off all those drownings. That is weird, man. Yeah. And since they're in the water, I'm assuming the fingerprints are gone too, right? Yeah, yep, exactly. Wow, so it's definitely a group that really knows what they're doing.

And if they know how the law operates, that makes me wonder if they have someone that used to be former law involved, you know, to know all that stuff. Potentially, in my opinion, whoever they are, they're extremely intelligent and well organized. I think they're just a riff raff rag tag group of nobodies. I believe that they know exactly what they're doing. Yeah. They go after, oh, go ahead. I was just gonna say they have a

hundred percent success rate. Yeah. No one's been arrested. Yeah. And they go after children primarily? Not children, but young adults. Young adults. And yeah, you know, like college age, college age males typically. The cases in Austin, some of them are older, older guys who are in their 30s and 40s. I believe that over the course of like 25 years, they've kind of changed their MO a little bit. They are experimenting with different Demographics and Because they're they're really good at what they do. They know that they can get away with it So they also know that they'll muddy the waters if they mix it up a little bit, you know Man, this is nuts. So this is gonna be be a Netflix, on Netflix in a few years.

Yeah, I mean, hopefully I, there, there is a TV series being, they're going to start shopping around like next week. Wow. Yeah, they're going to start shopping around. Yeah, this stuff gets a ton of attention. The Dahmer stuff was number one for a while. It was huge. Man. Yeah, America has a really weird fascination with the,

the dark and the various. Even the Luigi stuff, that was blowing up. That was huge. Man. Yeah, America has a really weird fascination with the dark and the various- Even the Luigi stuff, that was blowing up. It was huge. And girls loved them. Yeah. You know? Yeah, you're right. But also, I think we live in a society that is just so, I don't know, somewhat repressed.

We all know that there are people at the top who are in control of a lot of aspects of society and of our lives. And I think when someone goes against that and exposes it, they could experience some level of martyrdom like Luigi did because, and I'm not saying killing is good, that's not what I'm saying. But what I am saying is that

when someone exposes corruption in a huge way, people do come together and they wanna stand behind that person. Yeah. I mean, the healthcare industry, yeah, that's a dark industry. Yeah, agreed. I mean, insurance is so expensive

and they don't cover much. No, so many of these institutions, they benefit financially from denying you help. Right. From denying you help. Right. From denying you help. They make more when they do that. Completely, yeah. Yeah, it's messed up, dude.

And then this whole missing children stuff, I don't know if you saw this, but Trump found a bunch of them recently. No. Yeah. So there's like hundreds of thousands of missing children, speculation about a child trafficking ring. Whoa.

And Trump just found a ton of them. Yeah, we'll have to link that in the video. Yeah, that's fascinating. I haven't paid attention to the news lately, but. Oh yeah, I try not to, to be honest, but Twitter's like my news these days. Yeah, good. I just go on X.

Yeah. Because I feel like that's more real information. Yeah, because so much of our information now that is force fed to us, it's behind a paywall or it's owned by this select group of people who wanna tell you just what they wanna tell you. Absolutely.

I remember seeing a lot of negative PR about John McAfee actually. I never knew what to believe, but they definitely did not like him. No man, because he had all their secrets. Right, with the antivirus stuff, right? Yeah, allegedly that's what he did is he said that he built a back door in McVie Antivirus,

which was the most ubiquitous antivirus software in the world. And a lot of people had it. A lot of very powerful agencies had it. And so according to him, he had the goods on all of them. Wow. Yeah. I wonder if that will ever get released one day. It's like the Epstein list.

Dude, I was terrified that I would get it in my mailbox or something. Like after he died, I like I would check the mail and just be like oh yeah. Oh fuck. I wonder if he had a thing set up where it's like yo if I die like send this to someone or something. He supposedly did. He had five. Oh really? Yep he had five attorneys at five different law firms all around the world and he would always say to the people who allegedly wanted him dead um this and this is gonna happen. If I die within one hour, my dead man switch will be released.

But it was really interesting the way he passed away. It's like, here's a guy who supposedly had all this information and that was what protected him, kept him alive, according to him. And then he was extradited. He was going to get extradited to America where potentially he could sing like a bird and get a commuted sentence or something.

Make a deal, a backroom deal with some powerful people and say, hey, this is what I have. It's gone now, or you can have it if I can get five years in prison, you know, or whatever. In any way, hours after it was announced that he was being extradited, he's just dead of an apparent suicide. And he's made videos before that saying

he would never do that. Oh yeah, he got a tattoo. Right. He got a tattoo about it. He just spoke to his wife recently, right before that. And he was in good spirits. He was happy. He was, you know, he was,

yeah, they felt good about the case. They felt good about it. That's interesting, right? So you, what was your theory? My theory is that if he did have a dead man switch, somehow some really good agents or a really great team dispatched to these five places found all of the dead man switches in one fell swoop. or a really great team dispatched to these five places,

found all of the dead man switches in one fell swoop. They had to do it within an hour. So we're talking like five different teams in five different locations all around the world, dispatched at the same moment to intercept these in order to prevent that from being leaked to the public. I mean, it never got out, so they did something, right? Yeah, unless he was full of shit, which he was a lot of the time.

I feel like that though, he definitely would have prepared. I think he would do. Yeah, knowing what I knew about John, I believe that he had something. Yeah, that's crazy. So you were pretty shocked when it happened. When he died? Yeah. I wasn't really because someone had told me

that was going to happen. Oh really? And I was surprised it didn't make the cut for the Netflix doc because I said this, I told a story about this man that hit me up one time after I had stopped working with John. Yeah. And he said to me,

Alex, I have a story that could change things. And he said, we've been watching you for a while and we think you're the perfect writer to write this book. And he had my attention rate from that because I love change. I love truth. I love exposing the truth. And that's what I do as a writer.

It's my thing. And he knew that. And anyway, long story short, he flew to where I was living at the time in a private jet. He's a very wealthy, very powerful guy, allegedly the co-creator of Bitcoin. Wow.

One of the original founders of Anonymous, all this stuff. He said that he had blackmailed Epstein. He blackmailed the blackmailer. That's how you know you're on a different level. Wild, he had all these secrets and one of the craziest stories I've ever heard, he was later profiled in a New York Times piece. That was called like Jeffrey Epstein

and something blacklist or something. I can give you the link. Yeah, we'll link it in the video. He was anonymously profiled by these journalists. But fascinating guy, fascinating story. He knew where I was, had an earpiece in when I was sitting at the park and I texted him on Telegram

and he just looked from like 100 yards away and stared right at me. No way. The fuck. He said, yeah, I had a team running reconnaissance. Holy crap. They saw you coming here 15 minutes ago, recognized your tattoos.

Dude, it's like a movie scene. It was wild. I paid all in cash, had this big billfold and just getting wasted the whole night and he had some dark shit going on. That had been through some stuff. But anyway, I was imbibing with him too. We were drinking the best scotch

and he had originally offered me a quarter million for the book and now it ballooned into like a million dollars cash or diamonds or gold or crypto, whatever I wanted. He was like, yeah, I'll fly it in here tomorrow. Holy crap. Yes, but I need the book done within a month. And it was just some crazy like James Bond shit,

not stuff that I'm used to. And anyway, we were talking at this Irish pub, and I said, we were talking about John. And he told me how he had blackmailed John in the past. Blackmailed a lot of people for money. I said, what do you think will become of John? And he said, well, he'll die in prison. He'll commit suicide.

And I said, John, the most ego maniacal man I've ever met. No, that's not him. That's not what he does. He would never commit suicide. He said, I didn't say he wouldn't have any help. And he said the same thing about Epstein. This was months before Epstein went to that prison in New York.

And I asked him, like, how do you know these things? And he just looked at me and he was like, because Alex, I'm in a position to know. Sure enough, that happened. And people call bullshit on that. And that's fine, that's fine. But I have people from that pub who are friends of mine who saw the guy and they saw his back profile,

his front profile. It's the same profile as the guy in the New York Times piece. It's the same story. I told this story to some people before it even came out in the New York Times. It's the same story. I told this story to some people before it even came out in the New York Times. It's the same guy. He would drink Whistlepig, same drink,

described exactly the same. I think he wore the same damn outfit for the New York Times. So it's just, yeah, it was crazy because that stuff came to pass, it came true. And I called the people, the producers of the Netflix doc, the morning I found out that John had allegedly committed suicide. I was like, guys, oh my God, like, I said this, I said this in the interview for the

doc. And they're like, I know, I know. This is, this is like crazy. This is really crazy. It didn't make the cut. And I went to London and I talked with the guys. We all went out for Guinness and stuff. We do that whenever I show up

and just kind of shoot the shit, talk about our projects. And I was like, guys, why didn't that, why didn't that really important snippet, but they didn't, their editor or something looked over it because there's so much footage. These guys were parsing through hundreds of hours of footage from all of us people, all of us interviewees, and they missed it.

You believe that though? That's actually a good question. Yeah, cause I don't know. Like that seems pretty coincidental. These guys, I trust them so much. They're wonderful people. And I think they were a little bummed when I mentioned it. I know the director, he was like, are you serious?

I don't remember that. But I know for a fact, I said it because there are three big revelations I gave and that was one of them. But yeah, I don't know, it didn't make the cut, but hey, maybe that was for the best for me, who knows? Yeah, could have put a target on your back, right? Well, now I'm just saying an apocalypse.

Your 12 million followers are no big, it's fine. I could see why people are skeptical because there's a lot of people that want the Bitcoin founder to be anonymous and they don't believe anytime someone says they know the founder. That's like a whole thing in the crypto space. Yeah, it's like Kaiser Sose, like there's gotta be some mystique about this

because it could be one of the most powerful grassroots movements of all time. I saw a funny clip of, you know, Scottie Pippen, the basketball player? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was speaking on a Bitcoin conference with Michael Saylor next to him. And he said, you know Michael Saylor, right?

No, I know the name though. He's a huge Bitcoin holder, like. Oh no, I do know. Yeah, Micro Strategies. Yeah, yeah. They have tons of Bitcoin. And they were speaking on a panel and Scottie said, yeah, I met the founder Bitcoin

Michael gave him the nastiest look really the nastiest side I've ever seen why because he didn't believe him that are like He's like don't say type stuff. Who knows? Yeah, it could be that could be that I would prefer these people not to be known, you know, there's theories that they're involved with the government There's all sorts of that too. Wow theories with Bitcoin., there are. And I can't prove definitively that this guy was being honest with me about the things he said. But all I'm doing is just relaying it. And what did happen did give me some level of credibility about the guy because what he said did occur.

Yeah, it's hard to predict that stuff at the time too. Yeah. Like I didn't see anyone predicting it. Dude, Epstein was like, no one thought Epstein would be arrested. He wasn't even known like globally at that time until he was arrested and sent to New York, you know, sent to the prison in New York. So I knew about Epstein because I'd been in John's circle.

So I had all that conspiracy shit. Like he had a lot of that that he talked about. I bet he did. Did you end up getting that book done within a month? No, no. So it was a whole weird thing. I started getting red flags because we were supposed to meet for breakfast.

And he texted me in the morning. He said, Alex, sorry, I'm not gonna make it, man. I gotta go put out some fires. I said, okay, I hope you're safe. And he's like, yeah, it's all good, but I'll be back tomorrow. Tomorrow came, he didn't show up. And I said, what's going on, man?

And he would read it and not respond. And then I saw John started posting all this stuff. This guy, he had a nickname. He had a nickname, it was Withers. And John posted about Withers. And he started panicking. He started threatening to release the home address of an FBI agent.

Like all this stuff was going on. When John was having a meltdown, he mentioned the location where Withers and I met by name. He mentioned the place. He was like, yeah, next up, Withers, this location, I'm not gonna say where it is because one of the places that I frequent and the FBI agent and stuff.

So he knew of my meeting with Withers. And my thought was that Withers was maybe going back to John and saying, hey, I talked to your old writer, talked about some crazy shit that he knew about you. We should talk. And I think John maybe panicked, but then later on, it was at that point that I told Withers, I was like, look, I don't know what's going on. I don't like it though.

I like what you're doing. You're doing incredible things. I wish you well. And I still do. Cause he, you know, he has a militia supposedly that rescues trafficked women and children from all over the world. That's cool.

You know, he's a badass and he does really good things for us, for the common person. So I said that and I was like, I'm gonna bounce. You read it, didn't respond, never heard from him again. And then shortly thereafter, John started posting about him on his Twitter, casting him in a good light.

So talking about whether it's in a good way. He said something about, there's a certain CIA program, this project Monarch or something like that, or no, it was the one where supposedly the CIA infiltrated Hollywood. I haven't heard that one. Yeah, I forget what it was called. I'm sorry, I haven't looked into this for a while. No, you're good.

But it was a program and he cited that program and said that people like him and Withers are the ones who are being targeted by these media agencies and cast in bad light and just because they want to squash the truth of their stories. Yeah, I have to think what that name was. That's interesting. So were you working with John at that time or did you leave? I left. Yeah, I found out he did something unforgivable. Few things that were unforgivable.

At that point, year in, he had fired everyone. He was losing his mind. He was saying that everybody was a spy. I mean, there probably were some. Yeah, there were some. Dude, we got locked in a room on Hatteras Island in this mansion, and the security guards stood in front of the doors with their guns.

And he was walking around with his firearm, his pistol, and he was just like scratching his head. He had open scabs and sores all over him. And he said, this is what he said to us. He said, I received intelligence from the FBI. He's like, I have a lot of deep contacts in the FBI. He said like, I am, like I have a lot of deep contacts in the FBI. He said, I have FBI immunity too.

He said, someone in here is a rat. No one is leaving this room until I find out who it is. Oh my God. Yeah, here I am, dude. I'm the writer, right? I'm the journalist. I'm like, yep, gonna die. I mean, you're gonna take me out back and put me down.

Like, cause the writer is always the one who gets looked at as, oh, you're the rat, you know? But I have a big sense of honor and I sign NDAs for a living, you know? So it's like, no, I'm not a fucking rat, but- How'd you talk your way out of that one? I was pretty forceful with John cause one of the girls were like crying.

There were like 15, 16 of us in this room and this girl started crying. She was so afraid. And you could just see on everybody's face faces the dread because they didn't know what to anticipate. They didn't know what was gonna happen because you got this unhinged, like brilliant, drug addicted, alcoholic alcoholic multimillionaire

who thinks he's living in a James Bond film, legit. And his film would be better than a James Bond film, honestly, knowing John. And he's walking around paranoid with a gun. So I was just, I was over it. It's so much cloak and dagger stuff going on that I had seen up to that point and our lives being threatened,

our phones being taken and tapped. I found out when we had to give up our phones to go on that trip, he just hacked all of our phones and started listening to everything we said. Yeah, Jimmy Watson came up to me. He's like, yeah, so I told your girlfriend you went to the beach today. I said, how the hell do you know that?

Well, John told me. I said, okay, well, I didn't say where we are. Can you guys not hack my shit? That made you want to leave probably, right? No, I didn't really care about that. I had nothing to hide, but what made me want to leave was John just being so erratic. And I told John, I was like, listen, man, like,

we're leaving, we're not sticking in this room. I don't know who the red is. You're not gonna find out who the red is. Like John, like people gotta go to the bathroom, you know, like we can't just stay here. You gotta let us go. Oh, so there was hours that were going by. I don't remember how long it was.

I think it was like an hour. It wasn't that long. But like, imagine like an hour of people thinking they might get shot. Must've felt longer than an hour. Felt longer than an hour. And he did acquiesce and he eventually was like, all right, well, I am gonna find out who the rat is.

I'm gonna find out. I'm like, yeah, yeah, sure, great. Awesome. Good for you. And he never found out. Oh, he did. Oh, he did? Allegedly, it was one of the girls.

Oh, wow. According to him and according to some McPhee associates later on who told me, I just couldn't see it. I just couldn't see her being a rat. What was it, like a teenager or? No, it was this crypto girl who she had a bit of a following on Twitter and she was into crypto. She was from England and she had a bit of a following on Twitter and she was into crypto. She was from England and she had a relationship

with one of T Mac's closest advisors and friends. He was like kind of running all of his crypto holdings and stuff and making money. Yeah, the kid, he told us that he got like hacked for $50 million one time and he like didn't even break a sweat. Wow. Oh, he got like SIM swapped or whatever. Yeah, yeah.

Something like that. I don't remember what it was, but it was just the fact that 50 million was nothing to this 25 year old kid. That's how much money he had. Holy shit. He had a lot of money, I think. Tons.

Wow. He must've got in early on Bitcoin or something. I think, yeah, he did. Yeah, he did. He had a wild story. But I honestly, I haven't really looked into these people Not for a while. I wrote that book The man I hacked the world and that was like a therapy session with myself

I bet and and then I just put it on the shelf. I'm like, alright, I finally told the story feels really good Now let's move forward. Yeah, I'm sure you had a lot of opportunities come from that book yeah a lot actually and I didn't expect that at all and the opportunities come from that book. Yeah, a lot actually. And I didn't expect that at all. And yeah, there's another thing. Some people say, oh, he's like full of shit. He's just trying to sell books.

Like I make a couple bucks per sale. I don't care about money. I haven't been doing any of this for money since I began, since I got my mind back. It's not about that at all. It's about exposing the truth. And I think helping people. For me, the reason I'm so passionate about WISC,

We Hunt Serial Killers is because I have been in those rooms with loved ones, parents and partners who have lost their kids, who have lost their boyfriends and their brothers. And you see the pain in their eyes and you feel it, man, on a fundamental level. And you realize that for whatever crazy reason you might've been put in a position

that has some semblance of hope to give them closure and to help prevent other people from dying. I've spent like $100,000 on this project. Since I started, I've invested,000 on this project. Wow. Since I started, I've invested, I haven't made a dime. You know, I think that's gonna change with the like TV show and stuff and the iHeart radio thing. But if I wanted to do it for the money,

I would be making money or trying to capitalize off it. Yeah. And I think that's what a lot of people in true crime do. And I have a great level of disgust for those people. And it's why a lot of times the truth of these stories, they never come out because they're hidden behind a fucking paywall, man. Like behind these people wanting to get a payday.

And they have access to evidence and testimony, but they want their big Netflix movie. They want their big Hollywood production. They want their New York Times bestselling book. And they're not gonna give you an inch unless they think they're gonna get that. Interesting. It's really wrong.

And that's the toxicity that I've experienced in the true crime community, which a lot of people are amazing, especially like my friends who are citizen sleuths and law enforcement who just, they are so passionate, but then you meet the people who detract from this space and those are the ones lording over evidence and just living by their ego.

Wow, I did not know that was going on in true comm space. It's huge, it was like that with the LISC thing, Long Island Serial Killer Case. Yeah. Had a potential Netflix deal. I mean, we had the producers from the McPhee doc that I was in on the scene with me in New York City while I was investigating interviewing people

because they had a deal with Netflix, but then Rex got arrested and everything went away. But my main source on that story, he supposedly was sitting on bombshell evidence. Like I'm saying hard evidence, implicating the group, implicating the very killers that we wanted to be put away, but he wouldn't give it up.

He wouldn't give it up without assurances that he would make money, that he would get X amount of money and all this amazing stuff and get the Netflix deal. Like he was just hanging onto it. And this kid stole evidence from another one of our sources, stole his evidence. The dude was wrongly convicted

of the murder of his girlfriend because he and his girlfriend had discovered that a lot of these girls going missing were call girls. They would go missing working with this certain individual's prostitution ring who was one of the killers allegedly. And they put those pieces together. So the guy who was in a position to do it had her killed.

He was supposed to be killed, but the dude ran out of bullets. And so framed the living source, main source for the murder of the girlfriend. He's in prison right now. What? He's in prison. And he held the evidence?

So my guy, my old client on the list story, my main source, he stole the evidence from this kid who supposedly he was trying to help, took his evidence and kept it. That's terrible. For himself because he wants to use it. Wow. And he said, God directed me to do this.

And that guy's in prison because of that. That guy is not in prison for that. He's in prison now for grand theft auto. Oh, okay. My main source. Oh, sorry, the guy, yeah, the other source is in prison for like 25 to life, man. And he had the evidence before the guy took it?

He directed me to go get it for him. And I just wasn't in the state. So my source went to get it instead. And my source is the one who just, again, was just greedy, man, blew up the whole thing, walked away from our book deal, had a meltdown on me. And yeah, that story dies with these people.

Yeah, because there's no other evidence. Yeah, it's a sad truth. That's super sad. That's the truth of true crime. That's what I also wanna kind of talk about more so is that there is a dark side of this space that is fueled by ego and paranoia and it obfuscates facts and evidence and details

and it prevents crimes from getting solved. And it in effect allows these killers to keep killing. Like these people, they don't realize that the unconscionable behavior that they're exhibiting, they are allowing more murders to occur with their negligence. Wow. Which is crazy when you think about it, but it's true.

That's dark, man. Yeah. Yeah, they don't even think about that though. They're just worried about the bag. Yeah, they are. Yeah, and I'm not about that at all, man. No thanks. I mean, if you were, you could have made tens of millions by now, probably. Yeah, who cares, man? Like, I mean, I guess a lot of'm not about that at all, man. No, thanks I mean if you were you could have made tens of millions by now probably yeah, who cares man like it

I mean, I guess a lot of people It's always a balance though. You need to make a living but yeah Yeah, and I do it, you know, I make a good living but I don't have to cheat or hide or yeah Fleece people for it agreed. I'm the same way if it comes at the expense of others I don't want part in that I don't want to be scamming. I don't wanna be making money in the wrong ways. That's why I think you are in a really good path of alignment, like you're on your path. You've been doing this for two years.

You said you've already blown up. You've had some amazing guests. You've shared some incredible stories. You're doing it, man. And when you are on your path, like fulfilling your life's purpose and I think helping other people and not for your Netflix movie or fulfilling your life's purpose. And I think helping other people and not for your Netflix movie or for your big payday,

but just because you care, you know, you love telling stories, you love getting messages out there, which ultimately help others. These things have a way of coming back to you. 100%. Positive way. Yeah, I'm big on karma. Yeah, I invested a hundred K like you said too with yours.

I was losing money the first six months. Yep. You know, I could have tried to make this a money grab or whatever, but no, I just like sharing stories like you, just different format with podcasting. But actually true crime podcasts are I believe the number one genre for podcasts. Dude, they're huge.

They're massive. They're massive. Yeah, I couldn't believe it because I'm not really privy to that world, but the views they get are insane. It is insane. And I want to kind of, I want't believe it because I I'm not really privy to that world, but the views they get are insane It is insane and I want to kind of I want to harness that that power The power of network effects with whisk with we hunt serial killers because what I'm trying to do with that project It's called we hunt serial killers, right?

But the we isn't me and my team we are not the we like the we My message is my message is that the we is all of us. Like the we, it's the eyewitnesses, it's the family members, it's the law enforcement, the private investigators, the medical examiners, the people who think that there's more to the story. I think if we all work together in some capacity under a common like umbrella, under one umbrella,

we have a way better shot at helping shed light on these cases and potentially even helping to solve them if we work together. I love that. I mean, man, they say that about the Reddit detectives. Those guys can find out some crazy stuff. Oh, it's incredible, man. They're very good at what they do.

Yeah, they could take any image and find out where that image was taken. It's mind blowing. Yeah, it is mind blowing. And I out where that image was taken. Yep. It's mind blowing. Yep. It is mind blowing and I want those people to reach out to me. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, I want WISC to be its own entity and to be kind of autonomous. Without me, I don't need to be at the forefront of this. Nobody does. There doesn't need to be a face at the front of WISC,

but I would love for it to be like, just this organization that works together, shares evidence and information, like web sleuths, but in a different way. Yeah, power of community, man. Did you watch that cat killer thing on Netflix? Oh my God. That was awesome. Don't fuck with cat killer.

Exactly, like that, but on a grand scale. That was a phenomenal movie. Phenomenal. Props to those people who, like that, but on a grand scale. Right. That was a phenomenal movie. Phenomenal. Props to those people who, and that woman especially, who's like the star of the show, like those guys have big hearts. And I want to see more of that in this community.

Agreed. If we all come together, we could definitely lower the numbers, right? Oh, 100%. Crime. I mean, imagine if, let's say, let's say this message goes viral again, it went viral with this kid, Ken Waks,

I think that's his name on TikTok in Chicago. I mean, he was shedding light on the story and went viral for a bit and then died down. But if it goes viral, if it harnesses the power of social media and network effects and spreads the message that yes, these are homicides. These should be looked at, examined as homicides from the beginning

and like tighten your community. Have neighborhood watches, put fences over those rivers, you know, in that park area, Lady Bird Lake, where I've been to a bunch of times. Work together, share information, speak to your local law enforcement, help in any way you can get these solved. You know, if we have a spotlight on this story,

then the killers, they can't continue. Yeah, make it way harder, right? It will be way more difficult because then those surveillance tapes are being checked. They're looking where these kids are being thrown into buses and vans and stuff. They're actually seeing, they're actually accumulating evidence

from the beginnings of the investigation instead of not even treating it as an investigation. So we have to turn the tables against that rhetoric and we have to just let that story be told for what it is and have the community, all the community, come together and work together to prevent this from happening further. Yeah, yeah, that community should get in a group somehow,

whether it's on Facebook or some platform and all band together. There are some, you know, there are, especially on like Reddit, you have forums, there's a private Facebook group for the Austin deaths. There's one in Boston, you know, you have all these like disparate pockets of people sharing information, but they're just little pockets.

We need to open that whole thing up and have it be under one umbrella, one thing. Absolutely, man. Well, dude, what's next for you? This has been really fun. What is next? Any documentaries coming out? Oh yeah, the Mark Wahlberg thing.

I wrote a book called The California Kid with Owen Hansen. He's a USC athlete turned kingpin for cartel. He was in prison, he's out now. And Mark Wahlberg did a docu-series on that story. And I'm in that, it comes out in June, I believe. Nice. Am I allowed to say where? I don't know.

On a big major streamer. It's coming out in June. And then, you know, we got this iHeart radio thing about the Rivermen, about the killers, and hopefully get in a TV show very soon because they're pitching it next week. Nice, can't wait, man. I'll be following your journey.

Thank you, man, I appreciate it. I'll be following yours. Dude, it's gonna be fun to, let's do this once a year, man. I'd love to. Yeah, we're storytellers. We got some story. Man, that was a quick hour for me, to be honest. I could see how you went five hours with Mike Ritlin now.

Oh yeah, that was so much fun. And it was so easy too. He's such a good interviewer. You are too. Thanks. You guys are real authentic people. So you make the people on your show just feel comfortable opening up to you.

Yeah, I mean, I want to be able to sleep at night. I don't want to put on a facade. It's hard to live that lifestyle because I used to in high school. I used to pretend to be people I wasn't. I did too for a bit. Yeah, trying to fit in, you know? But no, it's not sustainable to live that way.

No, you have to be authentic in your work and your relationships and just who you are as a human being. And I think that's when all the magic happened. Absolutely, man. Well, I can't wait to follow your journey. We'll link all your documentaries in the video as well. Thanks for coming on, Alex. Thanks for watching, guys.

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