Digital Social Hour - Instagram’s Hidden Tricks: Gain 1M Views Without Hashtags! | Devin Jatho DSH #572

Starting point is 00:00:00 everything works uh the way that i look at it is how can i give the most value possible and how can i positively reinforce someone to watch my video they look at me and they go okay this is a weirdly deep voice with a mop haircut but at least you taught me something and that i can go use tomorrow uh the next time i see him i'm probably gonna listen to him again wherever you guys are watching this show i would truly appreciate it if you follow or subscribe it helps a lot with the algorithm it helps us get bigger and better guests, and it helps us grow the team. Truly means a lot. Thank you guys for supporting, and here's the episode. All right, guys, from Chattanooga,

Starting point is 00:00:34 Devin Jatho in the building. My man, how's it going? It's going good, man. Nice to be here. Absolutely, dude. You've been going viral for a good amount of time now. Good amount of time, about a year now. Wow. So what was that first kind of viral video you had? First kind of viral video I had was based on alt text you know what the alt text is on instagram right yeah yes for the disabled it's a disability feature and you can use it for seo yeah i saw that video i actually started doing that after yeah it's a good little hack you know all those hacks bro i don't know how you found out about those hacks but your your

Starting point is 00:01:01 videos are really informative i think that's why people like them that's what i try to do anything educational yeah because most people would charge for something like that but you're just dropping them kind of like hormosy right completely yeah and you got the inspiration from yeah you were just at his event and you got to learn from him in person what was that like um it's definitely different than what i thought uh taught me that there's levels to the game it's nice being the poorest person in the room oh you were the poorest one no but there's definitely people that had more money than me you can definitely tell i've been there before too yeah i've joined some masterminds where i'm definitely on the lower end of things it's nice it's inspiring it's it's different i mean you got to kind of figure out your lane right

Starting point is 00:01:36 yeah and then as well as i think the most valuable portion is looking at someone that makes a lot more money than you and looking at the person knowing that you're smarter than them like there's just some people that are just like that guy can do it i can do it too yeah they're they say there's a correlation but i've met i've met some really smart people that don't have money and i've also met really rich people that aren't 100 that's smart but they just specialize in one certain thing and they just crush it with that you know what i mean 100 you don't have to be like all around smart like everyone makes it seem like so that's what i try to be yeah i want to do content nothing but content and that's your thing man you generated over a billion views now for your clients yeah that is insane so which uh which kind of videos really blow up from what you've seen

Starting point is 00:02:13 i mean everything works i mean the rock is not going to watch this podcast and go okay how can i learn how to get more views from devon jatha everything works uh the way that i look at it is how can i give the most value possible and how can I positively reinforce someone to watch my video after they see me once. They look at me and they go, okay, this kid has a weirdly deep voice with a mop haircut, but at least he taught me something that I can go use tomorrow. The next time I see him, I'm probably going to listen to him again. That's just my goal. Yeah, when I first saw you, I'm like, who is this dude? Got the fro, got a deep voice, and you're like 18, right?

Starting point is 00:02:44 19, yeah. 19, damn damn but you really know how to get views especially on instagram that's kind of your main one right the only thing i care about you don't care about tiktok youtube i think instagram is just easier to monetize yeah more forms of contact whenever you're at the bar you don't go well i'm 19 i'm not at the bar but whenever you're at the bar um and someone goes hey you never asked for the tiktok it's like hey man can i get your tiktok it's fucking weird, you never asked for the Tik TOK. It's like, Hey man, can I get your Tik TOK? That's fucking weird. Yeah. Can I ask for the number? Imagine asking for someone's Tik TOK. People ask for snap though. I heard, which is kind of weird to me. Yeah, that is weird. Well,

Starting point is 00:03:12 it depends on the age group. Yeah. I mean, I, I use snap in like middle school. I don't know. I'm surprised people still use it. I hear people making a lot of money on Snapchat actually. The stories. Yeah. David Dobrik andryce hall making six seven figures a month yeah i don't touch that at all so i wouldn't know much i don't get it i just got monetized on ig but it's actually not paying that well no and i get like tens millions of views but it's paying like pennies i've never even looked into it i just got it and i was pretty pumped but because youtube pays decent yeah youtube i'm making 5 10k a month but't know. Instagram, I guess because it's shorter videos. Shorter videos. And then as well, they don't have as many forms of advertisement.

Starting point is 00:03:48 Yeah. How many times a day are you posting right now on Instagram? Like 0.2. Oh, shit. So one a week? Yeah, around one a week. And you think that's enough? It depends on where you are.

Starting point is 00:04:01 If it was up to me, I'd do more than one a week. But right now, it's just what we have to do with the voice and recording and all that kind of stuff for the course. But typically, I like to be around once every other day and once a day. Yeah. I try to do three a day, which is nuts. Yeah. Pineda does six a day. Yeah, he does. I just got it from his podcast. Oh, yeah?

Starting point is 00:04:16 Yeah. Nice. Yeah. I want to do that, but it's a lot of work, dude. It's a lot of work. And then as well as I think at a certain point, quantity will lower quality. Exactly. Yeah. And your quality is super high high how long does it take you to make one video for me to make one video uh takes me around two hours but the editor sitting over there he spends around 12 to 16 are you serious yeah so in total it's 14 well then you have the content ideation and all this good stuff the seo for the video takes a lot longer than people think that's insane when it comes to the idea part is that just you or you got a team i mean we have a team to do it for clients but i don't necessarily use it like i'm

Starting point is 00:04:48 i always want to do my shit i don't like to steal from other people yeah and where do you draw inspiration from do you go on your for you page and just watch videos uh at the very beginning i definitely think that that's something that you should be doing now it's just this sounds cool i just did it for this guy let's talk about this yeah that's just what i do i just saw mr b's talk exactly like that about youtube he used to go on youtube but now he's at the point where it's cool i just did it for this guy let's talk about this yeah that's just what i do i just saw mr b's talk exactly like that about youtube he used to go on youtube but now he's at the point where it's like a gut feeling almost yeah same thing yeah because you get so good at it right do it so many times um so do you have an agency that manages all these clients so we used to um and then after a while after enough shit we kind of dropped it off because agency model sucks it's

Starting point is 00:05:24 terrible especially with content because there's seven deliverables per week basically one video And then after a while, after enough shit, we kind of dropped it off because agency model sucks. It's terrible. Especially with content because there's seven deliverables per week, basically one video per week. I mean, per day, per week. So 20 videos a month. And doing that at scale for around 20 clients is 200 and some odd videos. It just takes a lot of time, a lot of headache. And then as well as you're also responsible for performance. It's just not the best model in the world.

Starting point is 00:05:43 Yeah, dude, I've never had a good experience with an agency as a consumer also. Just like the incentives don't feel aligned. Yeah, I could see that. I definitely, for me, my biggest issue was I want to perfect everything. So it's just like way too much time and the incentives definitely weren't aligned.

Starting point is 00:05:58 You pay me and I want to keep you forever. Yeah. I don't want you to be able to go build your own team and build off away from me. Like that's just not the incentive. Right, yeah from i see it from your point of view as well but with in terms of like marketing agencies they want a percentage of your ad spend plus they want to retain her yeah so it's just like you're getting hit twice right and it's like dude sometimes the campaigns aren't even profitable and they're still making a bag off you yeah and they don't care they don't care yeah but it's interesting there's a shift because amon godsey uh he got rid of his agency too right and a couple other people so it seems like there's

Starting point is 00:06:29 a new wave well i think the people that teach other people how to make money like they don't make money doing the thing anymore right so it's just like i want to i don't want to listen to you because i bought you my spot i bought you my scores at the beginning like he was my inspiration at like the age of 15 16 it was bad but it was that bad i mean like it was more so him talking about himself because that's how he got rich in the first not how he got rich in the first place but how he continued to get riches talking about himself and his accomplishments right so i just kind of carried over to the course of myself and it's just like you didn't really tell me to do anything i don't have a sales pitch sell script i don't know what to do it wasn't

Starting point is 00:07:01 tactical it was more just more personal here's my mindset um here's what it's done for me go do it and i don't they didn't really tell you what to do interesting and he's launched a lot of offers it's kind of hard to i feel like maintain quality when you're launching a new offer every couple months i'm having i'm having a rough time with just the one yeah so imagine doing that three times a year yeah i mean it's nuts i get his youtube ads his ads are amazing though i'm not not going to knock him on the ad side of things. I mean, I'll get his ad and watch the whole ad, which is rare for me. You know what I mean? I feel like people don't put enough money into the production side of their business.

Starting point is 00:07:37 Yeah. He definitely does that really well. Yeah. I mean, he's doing tens of millions on the info side. And you mentioned you're doing a course now too, right? Yeah. A group coaching program. Okay, so walk me through that model. So right now it's a group coaching program, media mastering, basically just everything standard, weekly Q&A calls, that kind of thing.

Starting point is 00:07:55 But the thing that we focus on is video reviews. So every single 72 hours, someone can upload a video to me or another social media coach and we'll break it down and give it back to you. So that way you kind of have an infinite feedback loop that's pretty useful so they can upload a clip they made and you'll give feedback within three days yeah and then of course you obviously have the course to abide by and stuff like that but that's probably like the main thing yeah if someone wanted to learn just making viral videos how long would that take you think

Starting point is 00:08:18 it depends on the person like if you had them coaching if i had them coaching i mean also depends on the niche like for example if you are a roofer it's gonna be a little bit more difficult if you're a make money online coach right so i think it just depends on the niche um then depends on the person as well if someone's six seven 270 and he's a fitness coach it's a little bit easier personality yeah what can you borrow the interest off of yeah i try hard not to look like everyone else you know yeah try to grow out the fro bit my height helps i think just my story helps if you're just the same as everyone i mean it's hard to get through right so many clips i mean so many freaking podcasts these days podcasts are rough and the way i look at it if you want to have a video that is

Starting point is 00:08:54 actually well performing it needs to be intentional yeah i mean you probably get offered to go on so many podcasts right yeah it's not something i like enjoying yeah why don't you like them just the nature of how i typically create i like enjoying yeah why don't you like them just the nature of how i typically create i like to be able to script everything out make sure everything looks good am i going to get this in size does everyone understand am i going to stutter if i do stutter david cut it out yeah it's just a much different vibe so you're a planner yeah yeah it took me a bit to get used to podcasting but i don't film them live luckily because that is way too unpredictable for me i mean dude because you don't know what people are going to say right you can get banned if they say the wrong thing so

Starting point is 00:09:27 i have like some time to edit for sure but honestly with pods i don't really edit much out yeah i mean for your short form videos how do you go about that so i typically do about five clips per episode and i'll just remember what kind of moments of the episode were viral tell my editors to chop that up, and then maybe add some B-roll, add some text. I don't go as hard as you. I mean, you spend two hours on a clip. I just pay someone to do that.

Starting point is 00:09:52 I don't know how long they're spending on each, but you do all the animations and the music. It's pretty nuts, bro. Yeah, it works out well. Yeah, what's the most views you've gotten on one clip? On one video, I think it was like 6.8 million views. Damn. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:10:04 And which one was that, the subtitle one? No no that was hashtags are dead i saw that one yeah yeah you basically said they don't work anymore and there's other ways to get views right yeah they are quote-unquote outdated and the other ways to get views i mean realistically i look at that now and just like none of that stuff really matters i think the incentive of the platform is which should be optimizing for not for the platforms not for how the platform is optimizing for their incentive. Incentives to the platform is always to keep people on their platform for longer because they make more money doing that through advertisement. That's interesting.

Starting point is 00:10:37 So I still use them. You think it's not even worth it? I mean, I definitely think that they could matter, but it's not something I'm going to look at and think, okay, I'm not going to spend too much time on it, it basically i think a good video is a good video and if a good video and a good video will be seen and you said what matters most is actually the hook which i agree with the first three seconds right yeah i mean if they don't watch the hook they don't watch anything else so i think i can agree with that but i don't think it's as important as people

Starting point is 00:10:58 put as much emphasis onto it because if after the hook it sucks then who cares something just need to have a good video all around right yeah that makes sense i really uh the hook is like because i i see myself scrolling and i'm like within two seconds if it's not interesting i'm out yeah if you can't see yourself actually using the video or um one thing i look at is how viewer depictable is a video so can i see myself putting this to use if not then i can no longer that i can no longer look at the video as quote-unquote valuable yeah that makes sense i mean i've strategically like changed all my hooks because I've tested the same clip but like with like a different hook and it literally 10x's the views yeah um have you heard of a guy named Ryan McGinn no oh wait yeah yeah yeah so it is much of the what used to do a

Starting point is 00:11:40 bunch of the big people like Hermosian people like those Grant Cardone Bradley and one thing that he talked about I don't know what he it, but I call it the multivariant hook. So it's just literally recording the same exact video, but changing out the hook and recording three different hooks and then posting all three of those videos with the same exact, basically the same exact video, but three different hooks to the TikTok. And then from there, testing which one works the best and deleting the other two after 24 hours. Wow. That sounds like a lot of work. I mean, for the editor, yes. Yeah. For yeah for you i mean it's just recording two other hooks yeah if you just

Starting point is 00:12:09 outsource it yeah um he actually came on the podcast that's funny uh video length does that matter there's a lot of debate about this as short as possible whether it's 20 seconds or 20 minutes it doesn't matter but something that should not be in the video take it out so that goes for long form and short form you're saying uh i mean it could go for short for short form as well i mean tiktok extended their period to 30 minutes i believe it is now yeah it's long now and now you can make it to where it's horizontal oh yeah i didn't know that that came out like probably two weeks ago what yeah i wonder if those are getting views uh they have like this little incentive to where it should it says that you get more views whenever you post horizontal content over this.

Starting point is 00:12:45 Damn. Okay, I got to test that out then. But who the hell is scrolling their phone horizontally? You're a freak if you're doing that, bro. Yeah. Are you using any AI yet? For my personal creation, no. I would say for a lot of the other sides,

Starting point is 00:13:00 like for example, the editing and content ideation, I'm sure they use different AI tools. But for me, I mean, I'll use Chaiai chibi to think of different synonyms to words rather than that i don't really think that it could help me all that much yeah i've tried opus i've tried munch there's a few others i feel like it's basic i don't think it's like the final video i don't think that it can replicate creativity at this current moment yeah it just feels very generic like i could tell when i'm on my feed and someone uses that yeah you know what i mean like there's just subtitles and the video yeah i feel like these days you need a little bit more to stand out i think you need a lot more stand out yeah so are you focusing

Starting point is 00:13:34 mainly on ig like is that the plan you don't even have plans for youtube or anything uh youtube actually we're working on a video right now hopefully we can get that out within the next week youtube is definitely something i want to move into but instagram is just where we make the most money and you're basically because i see i saw your past posts you're telling people to comment a certain word yeah so do you have an ai that will dm them from there so it's called mini chat it's a tool that is actually partnered with meta so it's completely safe to use uh we use mini chat pretty frequently now and what's the goal with uh having comment? Just funnel them into your group coaching? Yeah, it changes per video.

Starting point is 00:14:08 Like, for example, some videos I have the incentive of, okay, well, this aligns with my product, so let's just go ahead and push them towards it. But typically, it's just, I want to give as many free things as possible to build up the goodwill. And at a certain point,

Starting point is 00:14:19 it's just like, if they have money, cool, I want to accelerate this process, so I can pay Devin. I need to start looking into that because some of my clips get thousands of comments yeah so imagine if i could collect them in a mini chat because that's basically like an email list you could blast them whenever it 100 well okay it's a little bit different a little bit different than the email list but i will grab your email within mini chat so hey dm me for this keyword you want to redeem me for

Starting point is 00:14:40 this keyword i'll hey man you want this x y and z cool uh just give me your mail real quick and from that i'll take the email from the mini chat smart yeah and those newsletters are are popping off these days yeah and then as well as you also create the chat with them so it's much easier to begin a conversation that's art from someone that's already created a conversation with you so you can message them and not feel slimy or salesy yeah i like that it feels natural right yeah yeah because you just message me yeah sometimes youy. Yeah, I like that. It feels natural, right? Yeah. Yeah, because some- You just message me. Yeah. Sometimes you get messages and you're like,

Starting point is 00:15:07 that's obviously like copy paste. Like I get tons of those, especially for video, short form video editors. Yeah. Dude, I get like 10 of those a day. But then if you message me, I can go, hey man,

Starting point is 00:15:15 I see that you're interested into this free product. You want more of X, Y, and Z. It's supposed to be a lot more natural. Natural, yeah. That's the trick, man. Because if you make it seem like it's robotic,

Starting point is 00:15:24 people won't buy. 100%. Yeah. I saw you on another show saying you're doing over 30K a month. It was a year ago. Are you still doing those numbers?

Starting point is 00:15:32 We went up a little bit since then. All right. Yeah. Care to disclose it? It depends on the month. Anywhere from 100 to 150. Damn.

Starting point is 00:15:40 Yeah. Congrats, man. 5X in a year. Yeah. What do you think were the biggest things that put you in that spot to scale that quick? Going into the group coaching, I would say the biggest issue that we've had whenever it comes to just revenue is just putting focus on the agency because the agency takes up so much of my time.

Starting point is 00:15:55 So much of my time. So shifting. Yeah, 100%. Shifting from trying to do two things at once to only doing one thing. Yeah, that makes sense, man. Wow. 100k a month at 19 years old you're still out in chattanooga man yeah when are you getting out to a major city well right now we're in spain to record the courses we're there for a couple months why'd you choose spain why do you choose spain because the editor lives in spain damn yeah we're really taking care of that guy flying out the whole team there yeah um it was and then as well as you can get like a sick place for not as

Starting point is 00:16:23 expensive it was still pretty expensive but yeah better than you can get for example here in vegas vegas is yeah vegas has gotten expensive actually when i first moved here it was good but everyone came from la and shit so but man spain i haven't been out there that must be a totally different culture and lifestyle it's not as different as i thought it was going to be. I mean, it's just pretty normal. Um, you can't understand anything. And other than that, it's don't go for the food. The food's not good.

Starting point is 00:16:51 Some people would, well, David will say otherwise, but, uh, don't go for a steak. I'll put it that way. Don't go for a steak. Oh,

Starting point is 00:16:58 cause Europe's always one degree lower, right? So if you order medium rare there, it's actually like rare. Yeah. Yeah. I made that mistake in, uh, I think I was in Greece or something. Yeah something yeah no shit came out pink i was like damn bro

Starting point is 00:17:09 yeah i was like bro but i mean is that the plan like staying spain or are you gonna no no no um that was just for them to record the course i don't really know where i want to go yet i'm 19 i want to go explore places and then from that make a decision. Dude, you can't even drink yet. You are a young fella, man. Making that money at 19. So do you even hang out with people your age? No. Yeah, I had that issue too.

Starting point is 00:17:32 Yeah. Because no one can relate that age. No one can relate. Yeah, so you hang out with people in their 20s, 30s. 20s, 30s. I don't really hang out with people in general. I have work to do. I love that.

Starting point is 00:17:42 So you're an introvert. I wouldn't say that. But I would say I enjoy my quality time. I enjoy work. So you're an introvert. I wouldn't say that. But I would say I enjoy my quality time. I enjoy work. Okay. Well, that's kind of what an introvert is. Fair enough. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:17:53 What did your parents think of this endeavor? Because you didn't go to college, right? No, no. Fuck college. Parents were scared at the beginning. You know? Yeah. Kid was flunking out all through high school.

Starting point is 00:18:03 You flunked out? Yeah. Damn. Yeah. So definitely was aing out all through high school. You flunked out? Yeah. Damn. Yeah. So definitely was a little bit weary about everything. But then it worked out and they began to adopt the ideology. Still don't really understand what the fuck's going on. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:18:17 They were cool about it. Damn. So how long did it take when you set your mind to this? Did it take like a year, two years before you started making good money? Before I started making good money? I started, okay. i started okay i guess you could say i started around 13 damn the only way that i knew to make money at 13 was through gaming so we didn't what we're called wagers on fortnite yeah i got five dollars you got five dollars let's play for the 10 and that's how i made money at the beginning i would say my first 10k month came in whenever i was around 17 or 18

Starting point is 00:18:42 just from wagers no no no no um that came from fortnite cheats fortnite cheats yeah oh so you sold hacks yeah you were that kid selling aimbot to charvis and stuff damn bro i used to i still play fortnite i just started yeah i took five years off i'm playing now i just hit on real we can wager no hell no i don't play build i play no build no okay so you suck nah i got. I got a 4.2 KDR. Okay, okay. A little bit there. Not too bad.

Starting point is 00:19:10 Yeah, no. Those kids are sweats, bro. You were that kid? I was that kid. Bro. Did you play competitive? Yeah, for a long time. Damn.

Starting point is 00:19:16 For three years. So you were really good. I was pretty decent. Were you signed? To a couple of different places, yeah. Jeez. So you went and played in the World Cup and stuff? No, no. I wasn't that good. Okay. i wasn't that good in that realm wagers were completely

Starting point is 00:19:28 different that was like purely in creative got it and how did you find kids to one-on-one for wagers for money um there's a bunch of different things there's like websites and then as well as i owned a buy-in discord so the issue was uh let's say for example you have two 14 year olds playing for five dollars first off they don't have a lot of money secondly their ego is up through the roof so it's like what's the likelihood of me beating you talking shit the whole way through the match and then you paying me afterwards yeah pretty low yeah so what we did is we built out a buy-in discord so you had to pay to get into the discord but that's your skin in the game to not scam whenever you're in the discord got it so you split the hundred dollars

Starting point is 00:20:00 you're not gonna scam for five dollars that was the ideology around it right so i created one of those discords and that's how i found wagers primarily. That's cool. So you didn't put up the money up front and you had to just go on your word and pay them if you lost? Yeah. Well, you can also do a middleman and that's how we also made money. It was just, we had middlemans and we took 5% of the wager and basically, hey, Sean is the middleman. We do wager. We give Sean our money first and then Sean will pay the winner. Wow. That's dope. And you played on PC?

Starting point is 00:20:26 Yeah. Yeah, I was that kid in high school. No one else did it, bro. No. Everyone was Xbox and PlayStation. Yeah. I was literally the only kid in my whole school. 3,000 kids. Made you the best, though, didn't it?

Starting point is 00:20:35 Yeah. Now everyone's switching over. Yeah. It's the superior platform. Definitely. Do you think Fortnite's the greatest shooter of all time? I never played many games back then, man. Oh, yeah?

Starting point is 00:20:46 Played Fortnite, Call of Duty. Other than that, never really played all that much. I feel that. Yeah, I think it's, I mean, the longevity of it is just so impressive. Longevity is nice. Yeah. You don't play anymore, though? No, I haven't played a video game in like two years.

Starting point is 00:21:00 You think you'll ever play again? Sometime. Just not now. You're just so locked in right now i just want to get everything done you got an end goal because you're cash flowing heavy i mean this thing might be able to sell for big dollars one day end goal is to build the coolest thing possible with cool people do you all have plans on exiting or no no i mean i think after you do this for like five years it's like okay fuck this it sucks yeah but the beginning is fun i'm building something and i think for right now when they can foresee it's just me building more

Starting point is 00:21:27 i love that what do you spend your money on because someone your age must be tempted to flex a little bit uh what do i spend my money on do you know their brand represent no okay i buy a lot of represent it's a clothing company yeah um other than that just clothing um and work shit i like to buy a lot of nice shit whenever it comes to work okay yeah so no no watches cars no watches no cars i got a kia optima damn yeah what made you uh not want anything like that materialistic because at your age i feel like people are into that stuff right yeah um car and we used to the east and i mean i just drive to the gym and then back and then as well not how much. I'm traveling right now, so there's no point for me to get in the car.

Starting point is 00:22:07 A watch, definitely coming in the future. Right now, it's just how can I get as much sun as possible. Damn. How big is the team right now? Team, including editors or excluding editors? That's been a factor. Right. I guess including.

Starting point is 00:22:19 Ever since we dropped people from the agency, I think we're sitting at around 15, 20. Solid team, man, for your age. I mean, how'd you even learn how to manage a team i still don't i love the honesty i mean they don't teach that in school no they don't and you said you flunked out so you literally straight up it's like uh i try to stay up all night and go to sleep in school that way i can get wow yeah you were that kid yeah i know a few of those kids and now now look at you, man. Yeah. Making more than, making the teacher's salary in a month. It's pretty wild. I mean, it just doesn't teach entrepreneurship.

Starting point is 00:22:50 No. And you probably felt so like disconnected from everyone there. I would say definitely whenever I started getting more into it. Love that, man. Well, what are you working on in the future and where can people find you?

Starting point is 00:23:01 I'm working on the future, just building a new mastery, aiming for 500 members this year. And people can find me primarily on instagram devin jato boom we'll link it below thanks for coming on man hell yeah yeah thanks for watching guys as always see you next time

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Digital Social Hour - Instagram’s Hidden Tricks: Gain 1M Views Without Hashtags! | Devin Jatho DSH #572

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