Digital Social Hour - Is Public Education a Scam? Addressing Childhood Traumas | Alicia Watkins & Boyce Watkins DSH #356

Episode Date: March 16, 2024

Alicia Watkins and Boyce Watkins come on the show to debate if public education is a good learning system. APPLY TO BE ON THE PODCAST: https://forms.gle/qXvENTeurx7Xn8Ci9 BUSINESS INQUIRIES/SPONSORS: [e-mail] SPONSORS: Opus Pro: https://www.opus.pro/?via=DSH Deposyt Payment Processing: https://www.deposyt.com/seankelly Hubspot Podcast Network: https://link.chtbl.com/jcfShDpb LISTEN ON: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/digital-social-hour/id1676846015 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5Jn7LXarRlI8Hc0GtTn759 Sean Kelly Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seanmikekelly/ Digital Social Hour works with participants in sponsored media and stays compliant with Federal Communications Commission (FCC) regulations regarding sponsored media. #ad Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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now. Big O Tires, the team you trust. Our image in the world is racialized, okay? It's like there's stereotypes of Black women, there's stereotypes of Black men, and of course it has an effect on us as individuals. Which means that if the Black guy's in the movie, he could just be a regular guy. He doesn't have to be the black guy, you know? Wherever you guys are watching this show, I would truly appreciate it if you follow or subscribe. It helps a lot with the algorithm. It helps us get bigger and better guests, and it helps us grow the team. Truly means a lot. Thank you guys for supporting. And here's the episode. All right, guys, we are back.

Alicia Watkins and Dr. Boyce Watkins here today. It's going to be a great episode, guys. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for having us. Yeah, thanks for having us. You two each got your own specialties. So it's really cool to see this together. It's going to be a fun episode.

It definitely makes sense. Love and money. Love and money makes sense. Because isn't that what everybody's trying to get? They're trying to get love. They're trying to make money and be successful and have a full life. Love and money. That makes sense. Right. And a lot of people can't succeed at both, it seems like these days. But you guys have figured that part out, right? was just thinking recently about, and of course I specialize in African-American community. I was thinking recently about all of these successful black men and they're doing so many great things in their professional life. They're achieving a lot, but when it comes to the interpersonal relationships, it's falling apart. Like how can you really have all this success and not really

have a good time in your personal life? And you're speaking from experience, right? Your clients are probably coming and talking about this with the therapy sessions. Oh, my therapy sessions. It's a calling that I feel like really has been in my future. Like ever since I was a child, I grew up with therapists. Like I grew up, both my parents were healers in the black community. And it's subconscious because I never really realized

why I wanted to be a therapist and a college professor. But when I stop and think about it, wait, I was raised by therapists and educators. So it would make sense that this is what I would want to become. And it's just great to give back to the black community in this way. Absolutely. You guys are both professors, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm a finance professor and my wife is in social work.

Nice. And she's a therapist and she's taught me a lot about a lot of things. First of all, you know, a lot of people that we talk with are from the black community, but really everybody's kind of experiencing the same universal challenges when it comes to things like love and money. And in America, for example, I found that financial insecurity is kind of at an all-time high. Car loan debt's at an all-time high. Student loan debt is at an all-time high. Credit card debt's at an all-time high. And what happens is that you see a lot of these psychological effects from people just being stressed out all the time. And it's because of money. And I think people should know that there's a reason why

they don't teach you how to evade these issues when you're young. Because a lot of our capitalism in America, it's driven by this addiction to spending that so many of us are given when we're young. And so it's sort of like they lead you into the rat trap and don't teach you how to get out. And so ultimately, I became interested in money because I didn't have any money and I wanted to learn about money and talk about money. But really, I found that money is kind of the key to so many other things in terms of quality of life, right? They say money can't buy you happiness, but money can at least give you the day off work so you can figure out what's going to make you happy. So that natural blend of what she does as a therapist and what I do as a finance professor, it became really magical because I was like, you know, there's this whole field of financial psychology

that really needs to be explored so we can all find the thing that's more important than money, which is peace, happiness, health and all these things that we lose in this rat race. I love that. Yeah, but I also think that for the black community, I think that we're just unique. The black community, I think, although love and money is important for everybody, I think for the Black community, it is an extra struggle because of the specific unique traumas that Black people have experienced. Just being in America, like our whole story, slavery, you know, that's historical trauma that Black people carry with us, passed down from generation to generation. So that intergenerational trauma is something that makes Black people unique in that way. And although everybody, you know, is faced with all

of these issues, I think the Black community have higher rates of trauma in our community, particularly because of race-based trauma as well. I mean, to be on the receiving end of psychological and physical discrimination and racism, I mean, what that does to yourself. dose of business tech and news and they got original stories which keeps you in the loop on what's trending in the business world it's very important to stay up to date on what's trending guys right now obviously crypto's hot there's tons of opportunities there they have over three million young readers on their daily email and that keeps you in the loop on what's going on like i said earlier and they now have a daily podcast called the hustle daily show where their

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They recently did one on 3D printing houses, which I thought was super interesting. Search for The Hustle Daily Show in your favorite podcast app, guys, like the one you're using right now. Now here's the show. Your psyche, it makes you feel like there's something wrong with you. What's going on? Why can't I make it? Why is this? And studies have shown that for Black people who experience that, and that's what you experience in this country, it has an effect on you that mimics PTSD. Wow. Yeah. That is crazy. That's why there's higher rates of alcohol abuse, drug abuse, just the psychological damage that it has on Black people just for race-based trauma, intergenerational trauma. And then you think about historical trauma. Think about Black people as a whole, the community, slavery, Jim Crow.

All of these things have affected an entire group of individuals in America. And then you talk about love and money. I'm supposed to, all of these things are happening and I'm supposed to be married and have a marriage that lasts. It's very, very difficult. Difficult. And divorce rates are at an all-time high, right? It is at an all-time high across the board, but it's very, very difficult. Difficult. And divorce rates are at an all-time high, right? It is at an all-time high across the board, but it's specifically higher in Black communities.

Right. I've heard in Black communities, single parenting is common, right? Why do you think it's so much higher in that community compared to the others? It's difficult to get along. I mean, think about all of the stereotypes of Black men and women, and we talk about this a lot on our podcast, you know, we are, our image in the world is racialized. Okay. It's like there's stereotypes of black women, there's stereotypes of black men. And of course it has an effect on us as individuals, but it also has an effect on how we treat each other in our marriages, internalizing those stereotypes of black men. I'm going to treat my husband through those stereotypes. You know, OK, you know, those stereotypes.

My husband is going to treat me based on those stereotypes because he's internalized the stereotypes of black women. And it comes out in our relationships. So not only is society treating us this way, we're treating ourselves this way. It's unconscious, subconscious. You don't know that you're doing it, but it's happening. And that's why I like to dedicate my life to fixing some of this. Wow. I could definitely buy that because the subconscious programming these days is insane once you look into it. Insane.

I mean, I used to watch the news growing up. I will never watch the news again. I would go to school depressed because it's just like they're feeding you negativity all the time. Well, of course it's on ratings and we have to, you know, it's on what they feel like they can get eyeballs on. It has to be sensational. But I also think that those images that you see

of black women, the stereotypes of black women, the mammy stereotype, all women that you see of black women, the stereotypes of black women, the mammy stereotype, all women that you see in media are going to go through those four stereotypes. The mammy stereotype came straight out of slavery. Okay. The, um, the angry black woman, the sci-fi stereotype, that's what you're going to see in media. You know, the, the ghetto, the ghetto queen, the one who's like, I just want to make my, the welfare queen, I just want to get my money. That's what you're going to see. And those stereotypes of black women, that's racialized stereotypes.

It's oppressive to me to see myself in that way because I'm so much more than just that. Yeah. You know? Well, you know, the stereotypes are real, right? If you really look at mainstream media, you typically see black men excel in, uh, two or three key areas. Uh, either, uh, he's a rapper, a comedian or an athlete. Right. And so what that does is that does dehumanize the black male because it allowed at least the world to kind of see us through these, this really narrow lens. And you don't see all the millions of black men who want to be engineers and, and doctors and dentists and construction workers and,

and just all these other things that make us human. And so it's, uh, you know, those who fit the stereotypes, I don't think it's their fault that they, that they chose to become rappers or whatever. But,

uh, but there's something about America. I mean, for those that really want to understand race a little bit better is really the goal is for us to be as diverse and as human as anyone else, right? Which means that if the black guy's in the movie, he could just be a regular guy. He doesn't have to be the black guy, you know? And I spent most of my life kind of being the black guy.

And I don't like that. You know, and it's really, and it's interesting because sometimes we draw, we look at that through liberal and conservative lenses. Okay, the Democrats are racist. No, it's the because sometimes we look at that through liberal and conservative lenses. Okay, the Democrats are racist. No, it's the Republicans that are racist. And it kind of exists kind of everywhere in the sense that I remember when I was on the faculty at Syracuse University. And here I was. I had a whole PhD in finance.

And it was very rare. I was the only black man on the planet to get a PhD in finance. Damn, really? Yeah, in 2002, there was no other black male or female anywhere, right? So I'm here teaching finance at Syracuse. Anytime CNN called me to go on TV, they never had me talk about finance. I would always talk about the race issue.

Oh my gosh. Yeah, so they'd be like, Dr. Watkins, a bunch of black kids beat up some white kids and we want to get commentary about it. I'm like, dude, okay, sure. But what really kind of was weird to me was it was actually fox news that was the only place that said no we just want you to come in and talk about economics and interesting yeah yeah and that kind of shifted

challenged my views in terms of uh what was going on with this liberal conservative thing now i'm more independent i just believe i believe we should talk to each other more as a country. I don't think we talk enough. And I think that there are people that don't want us talking. Um, and, uh, but over time it's like, okay, if you want to look for racial bias, it does exist everywhere, right? It's, it's a disease that's affected a lot of us. But then at the same time, at the end of the day, I think when we get to know each other as human beings, a lot of those politics go out the window, right? Like I'm talking to you man to man in the same room. I'm not going to say, oh, well, based on these characteristics of who you are, this is what I expect.

And I think as a country, we should aim for that. Absolutely. Now, this is an interesting question because you're both professors. The public schooling system, I mean, I talk very negatively about it. You guys are both professors. What's your overall feedback on the public education system right now? Garbage. Is it really garbage? Her mom's a schoolteacher. So she's going to have a different view from me. But but but go ahead, babe.

You know, I mean, you say it's garbage. I just think it's oh, gosh, it's a societal issue. You know, it's like I grew up with school teachers and educators. I've had firsthand experience on Sunday morning after church. We would go after mass. We would go and have breakfast with my mom and all her sisters. They're all educators. And I hear about the struggles that they have. It's, you know, they struggle in working with the parents you know if if parents and teachers work together things could have good things can happen and I've seen good things happen but it's just it's a reflection

of society more so than anything so I think I don't think the teachers are the problem teachers aren't the problem it is the system I think it's what they're teaching mainly, yeah. Okay, you tell me. What is it you've noticed? Well, I just look at my experience, right? So I went to public school for 12 years. I didn't learn anything that I use today. Other than how to communicate with people, maybe networking.

Recess was a joke. I mean, gym was a joke. No one took it serious. It was a complete waste, in my opinion. A complete waste. Not a complete, but like a large amount of time wasted yeah i i i hear where you're coming from um and i i think we can talk about this without vilifying teachers right yeah um you know it's it and really we know it's a parent teacher combo they can create

a great child but you look at this broader, there's something really screwed up with the whole politics of education in this country. First off, if you talk just from a financial standpoint, I'm a firm believer. Again, capitalism is what I study. I'm a firm believer that there's some merit to these conspiracy theories about the Rockefellers and people like that donating money and saying, look, all we really want is for you to teach people how to become corporate slaves, teach them how to go get a job and show up to work every day and do what we need them to do

because we need workers. Capitalism does not survive without its workers, without its consumers. So that to me speaks volumes about the public educational system, because it's really sort of like teaching you how to sit down, shut up and regurgitate information. And much of that information, to your point, does not actually enhance your ability to survive. You know, like to me, education, if you really want to design education in a way that was beneficial to the child, you might ask yourself a question like, okay, when this seven-year-old boy is 32 years old, maybe with a wife and kids, what's he going to be thinking about every day? What problem is he going to try to solve? And how do we prepare him to solve that problem? Well, if he's a husband, he's going to have to learn how to be a husband.

I believe everybody wants to get married and stay married. Take a class on getting married and running a family. That's an institution. If you're not a good CEO of any institution, it's going to fail. What else? How do you raise kids and not f*** them up, right? That's another thing that he might want to be trained on early. How's he going to make money? And how's he going to make money in a way that gives him the psychological benefit of financial security, just knowing that he's not going to have night sweats sweats wondering if his boss is going to fire him that day and all the stress that comes with the corporate plantation. Right. I think if you do that and you shape education that way, it's going to work. But there's nothing in this system, especially in capitalism, that is incentivized to do any of that.

That's your problem. All of that is true. But I have to reflect upon my experience. Okay. First of all, I was born in Tuskegee, Alabama, the blackest place in the world, right? Actually, I was born at John Andrews Hospital, which was ground zero of the Tuskegee syphilis experience. Yeah. So, I mean, just think about mass trauma there.

I mean, that that community they're still traumatized by that they don't trust the medical profession for a good reason right so but i was raised in gary indiana another black place the blackest city in the world yeah gary and where michael jackson's from come on you know you know gary i know jackson i'm going back to indiana it's the song on it. I'm young. You got to remember. Oh, yeah. I'm going to send you the song. I know Thriller and that's about it.

Oh, oh. Oh, we got to hang out some more. I'll tell you about that. But that's where I was raised. I was raised and educated by black women and men who loved me, who cultivated me, who made me confident enough. No matter what challenges I had,, I had several, you know, but it was nurturing, my environment was nurturing. I'm the second generation therapist.

So my parents had advanced degrees in child development. So I didn't have that interpersonal trauma growing up, but I was, my gifts were cultivated. I went to a performing arts school. You know, there's something to being raised in a place that's nurturing. Yes. The school system. There's problems in the school district and school systems, of course. But it's those interpersonal relationships that I had with my teachers and people who cultivated me to be what I am now. Yeah. So I love that. It's a double edged sword. It is. I'm

more speaking from an entrepreneurial perspective, not a nine to five, like a, like a corporate job. Cause I was, I felt like they make you learn at the same pace as everyone. You know what I mean? And I just felt like it was, I don't know. It was too. Entrepreneurs are terrible for public schools because the way you become a successful entrepreneur, typically, I think especially now is you have to be creative. You have to think outside the box, you become a successful entrepreneur typically, I think, especially now, is you have to be creative. You have to think outside the box. You know, you have to solve problems in certain ways. And there's not much in the public school system that incentivizes that. You think outside the box, you're going to get punished. You're going to get thrown in detention.

Yeah, that's what happened to me. Right. That was me too, man. My grades were garbage. I was always in detention. And it's because somebody that has the genius to say, do what you've done, right? You've made a lot of money and you're doing your thing at an early age. That person is somebody who is going to look at the structure and question everything, right? Like if someone says, well, sit down, shut up, and stay in this cage, you're going to be like, well, why why what's what's going on here how do i benefit from this this doesn't make any sense why do you have this rule and when you do that kind of thing you're going to be punished in almost every single system that exists in this country uh and so yeah the public school system wasn't a good place for you it would have surprised me if you told me that everything went great and you made good grades

no i did terrible how to 1.7 yeah? Yeah, yeah. Schools don't mass produce people like you, but there can be schools that could, right? Which is why someone like yourself at some point becomes the teacher of people that don't fit within that system. Yeah. Now, this is super interesting because you two have total opposite views. So do you guys have kids? We do not have children together.

I'm the bonus dad. She had three kids when we got married. Got it, Got it. And are they in public school? Well, they are. But we live in a very nice neighborhood. He's laughing. We live in a very nice neighborhood.

So it's a good public school. Let me tell you. Listen. Coming into. Okay. I was raised in the inner city. Right. So urban area.

So being a suburban mom is a whole different world for me. And I'm looking at the school district like, y'all didn't do this. You're not doing this. And they actually were pretty good. Oh, they listened? Not that they listened. It was just that the things that I was very skeptical of. I mean, just think about, you know, I'm thinking about discrimination.

Are you taking out your issues of Black men out on my child? Like, what's going on? I mean, this is what Black parents, you know, are concerned about. So I'm like trying, but they really did have a pretty good education, I would have to say. But they do yearn for a black experience. So, you know, it is possible, you know, we'll send them to an HBCU, you know, that so they can have a rounded, well-rounded experience. But they're getting a pretty good education. I just think that.

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You know, I mean, Boyce is an entrepreneur. I am an entrepreneur. He's influenced me. I never in a million years would ever think about starting my own business, and I've done it, and it's been pretty successful. Nice. And I owe that to you. Thank you, baby.

You're welcome. I really appreciate you pushing me in that direction. Well, to that point, you know, I believe that the strongest educational driver for the child needs to be their home. Like I think families, any family that's concerned about what's going on in the public school system should make sure that you're the dominant voice in the minds of your kids. And so one of the things that I just believe is that there should be tolerance and space for other points of view. I listened to my wife, I listened to our other relatives and, and I know I'm a little bit weird, but I know that my weirdness is what helped me,

saved me. My weirdness saved me from the despair that so many of my friends experienced because they were trying to be a round peg in a square hole. So when the kids come home, it's like, yeah, okay, you went to school. That's good. You want to learn how to survive within a structured space because that may benefit you. But then I say, okay, but let me tell you how life really works. And so when our 13 year old asked me, like, what do you think I should do when I grow up? I said, I don't know. I don't think we should live in a society where we define ourselves by what we do. I said, you know what? Because if I tell you what to do, then I'm only constraining you. And there are so many kids out here that are miserable that became doctors because their dad

told them they were going to be a doctor when they were 14 and they're 45 and they hate it, but they did it because daddy told them to do it. I was like, look, if you want to make money, I can show you how to make money. I know all about money. But then also I said, really, the best thing I could do for you as your father is I want to show you how to be happy. And money is a tool to help you do that. But also this, these corporate structures, the way society is built, it's designed to block your happiness every step of the way. So you can serve the agenda of somebody else. So I said, the best thing I'm gonna do for you is I'm going to teach you about money, teach you about life, give you some resources and position you so that you have that space to pursue basic human rights, life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness. That means you are free enough. You have enough liberty in your life that you can

then go figure out what's going to make you happy. And if that means going to Europe for a summer, do it or whatever, you know? And I think that's the goal, right? Happiness is the goal. And we have a society where my wife explains to me all the time how depression and anxiety is at an all-time high because that's one of the sacrifices we make for our commitment to capitalism. In America, we have a lot of workaholics. We don't support mothers. We don't support families. And all this is due to really American greed, good old-fashioned American greed. And it's fine. It creates the strongest economy in the world, but there is a huge, huge negative side effect. And you can see a lot of that when you go down to Skid Row

and you see all the homeless people and the mental health facilities that get shut down and all that stuff. So we're good at capitalism. We need to be a little more socialist in our thinking so we can have the balance that we need or this country is going to fail. Wow. That's a statement right there. So you guys both grew up in poverty, right? And for many families, it's a vicious cycle. It doesn't end. You two were able to escape it. How much of that do you think was a mindset shift? It was huge. I let my wife explain her experience as well.

I will say that being poor financially does not mean you have to be poor in terms of love and vision and, you know, and values. You know, what I see in our family, the common thread is that, yeah, we might have been poor, but we weren't poor when it came to the quality of the character of the people that raised us. Wow. I had a structured family with a hardworking father where even when we didn't have food in the refrigerator, I saw a man busting his ass every day to take care of the family. I saw a woman that supported that man no matter what. They told me education was important.

They told me about personal responsibility. All these things that you're not supposed to talk about. But it's like, no, this is the stuff that allowed me to make good choices and to put myself in a good situation. Wow. And I know with my wife, you know, you were poorer than we were. But you had family that protected you and taught you things. Go ahead.

Yeah, I don't know. And in terms of my story, I'm not certain it was poverty. I mean, I'm the fourth generation college student. So I had the thing, you know, I grew up growing up with educators. You're not going to be rich, but we definitely didn't live, you know, paycheck to paycheck so much. You know, it was pretty, you know, middle class sort of neighborhood. But I think I think the issue with me is I don't agree with that. I'm going to. I don't agree. You told me you're sorry.

I think it was a middle class mentality, but I think that there was, I think there was a financial strain, but I think your mother taught you to live below your means. Let me tell you my story. My grandfather was admitted into medical school

at University of Chicago. He was admitted in medical school. They would not let him attend medical school at University of Chicago. He was admitted in medical school. They would not let him attend medical school because he was African-American. Wow. And so he ended up going into the chemistry department at University of Chicago. So I'm the third generation University of Chicago student.

So it's not like we were wealthy, but all of us were educated. And I was given the values that a car is just something, a vehicle to get you from point A to point B. You know, there wasn't an external validation. It was more like, did you have fun? Did you have a good time? You know, what are you doing? Do you want to do what you love and what you desire to do?

So that that was sort of the that those were the messages that I received growing up. Where materialism and all of those things wasn't held as important as who you are as a person. Interesting. Yeah. Do you think families should be more open with their kids about financial situations? Because a lot of them are super closed off. You think they're super closed off? I mean, I never talked about it with my parents. I don't know if that's common or not, but I've heard from other people. Not to talk about money and not to talk about those things. Yeah, I really do think definitely talking to boys and being married to boys, we need to have better conversations about money and finances, but we need to not have it so that your worth is tied to what's in your bank

account. And it's interesting because people always talk about, I'm on social media and I hear all these conversations about high value people. You got to be with a high value man and a high value woman. There are no high value people. Everybody is valuable. Everybody is valuable. Just what the type of car you drive, how you look, a trophy wife, having a rich husband, all of those things that does not create a high value. It's who you are as a person to me. And that's, those were the values that I was raised on. Wow. Now I think that, I think you make a good point about the fact that a lot of times everything Wow. sacrificed a lot of things that money can't buy in order to get the material stuff, right? So that is important. I think, I think really being honest in your metrics of whether or not your life is

what you want it to be, it has to go way beyond just what kind of car you drive, what kind of house you have or job and all that. I do think though, at the same time, one, one difference that my wife and I have is that I kind of grew up with a father that had old school values that says that as a man, there is an expectation that you can provide at a certain level because that maintains structure for the family, for the household. In fact, when I wrote a book called Financial Lovemaking years ago, I studied and they have studies that say that even women are naturally less sexually attracted to men when they're falling off financially or they're financially irresponsible or financially incapable. Like there's a biological reason why the rich, powerful, intelligent guy is more attractive than the wimpy little guy that works at McDonald's and can't take him a date. Women won't admit that though. Right.

What do you say? Women won't admit that though. They won't admit it, but it's true. They don't know they're doing it. Right. It's subconscious but it's true. They don't know they're doing it. Right, right. It's subconscious. It's subconscious. You don't know that you're doing it.

And, of course, studies show that men who are most likely to cheat are men who make less money than their wives. Really? Yes, because that's their way of asserting their manhood. Interesting. I could see that. That makes sense to me. None of my rich friends treat, honestly. You know what I mean?

Like, not a lot. And think about the Black community. There's women. Black women are shitting it. You know, they're making money. They're entrepreneurs. They're being successful. And a lot of the marriages I see, the women are doing very well.

And the men are struggling. And those men who are struggling feel less than as a man. Yeah. Unfortunately. And of course, in therapy therapy we deconstruct all of those things, but that's what encourages them. They don't know that they're doing it to make them go out and cheat because there's their way of saying, I'm a man now. Yeah.

They've done studies on that. Women that make a high salary actually struggle dating men. Yeah. It's interesting. Yeah. I mean, my theory on that is pretty simple, that I think naturally a lot of women just kind of want the man to have a little bit more of whatever it is. Like, like whatever I make, I need you to make a little bit more. If you, if I'm five foot nine, I I want to talk about our story. Okay. Okay. So I have known Boyce for 30 years. Okay. Okay. It's amazing that I'm on this podcast. It's amazing

that I even have a social media platform, right? Because I'm, you know, I'm raising children. I'm college professor. I'm doing my thing. I am not on social media. So every time I would talk to Boyce to find out what's going on with him, I would just call him on the phone. It wasn't until we started dating that I followed him on Facebook. It wasn't even your Facebook. I followed him on. I didn't even have an Instagram account, so I couldn't follow you on Instagram. After we started dating. Now, mind you, and I know Boyce does not like me sharing the story but i'm gonna share it when boyce and i started dating yeah his blood pressure was can i say it it was high his blood pressure was high no i'm telling the story his blood pressure was high his phone was cracked okay he had it was in the winter time he had a coat with a big hole in it

he lived in this really nice apartment in chicago but you know it was in the wintertime. He had a coat with a big hole in it. He lived in this really nice apartment in Chicago. But, you know, it was an apartment. You know, he had all of these things. And I was like, this poor baby, my friend, for all these years, like there was something really beautiful and gentle in that. And I'm like, you know what? What's going on? You know his um his health was failing and i did not know until after we started dating how popular he was yeah we would go places and i'm like why are people taking your picture i had no idea wow and i have fell in love with a man who i thought was this poor little thing and i had no idea interesting that's probably why he stuck with you because probably had a lot of gold diggers coming at him and stuff. I don't know what his experience was,

but I've, I've always, the moment I met Boyce in the library, we met in the library at Indiana University. I was 19 years old. He was not Dr. Boyce Watkins. He was Boyce,

the graduate student. and when he came up to me and he talked to me we spent how many hours together about three or four hours three or four hours together and and i said to myself i was 19 i said i found him wow found him that is the message that came through my head and ever ever since then, I have always stayed in contact with Boyce. Boyce would even say, Boyce would fall off the face of this earth. I'm calling you. You are not going to ignore me. Like that's the type of relationship and friendship that I had with him for many years. I had no idea that he was even interested in me. He went for years after we dated, I had no boyfriend. He could have tried to talk to me. I had no idea. Boyce can tell his story. I had no boyfriend. He could have tried to talk to me. I had no idea.

Boys can tell his story. I had no idea he was even interested in me. Wow. No idea because I just figured, okay, he's dating all these ladies. He must not be interested in me. Wait, so what does that have to do with the whole high value, low value? You're telling our own story. We're almost out of time. Go ahead.

I know we're out of time, but I just really want to share that story because, listen, I got a divorce from my husband. He was an excellent provider. It didn't work. We're out of time, but I just really want to share that story because I, listen, I had, I got a divorce from my husband. He was an excellent provider. It didn't work. You know what I mean? And I wasn't necessarily looking for that. For many years, when you're in a relationship or marriage, you just feel lonely.

I didn't have anybody that I wanted to love. I had so much love inside of me. I wanted to be able to express, you know what I mean? And so it's not that I was looking for somebody but you know i'd never thought i would fall in love with you boys i really never thought and he one day he just called me and confessed his love to me it was really amazing after i've known him for 25 years it took 25 years for you to do that well you know what it was it was we were friends and I was happy being friends for a long time. Yeah. And

to your point earlier when you said gold diggers coming at you and all that, her depiction of me, you know, women will look at a man, a happy man in his life and say, oh, you poor baby. But I didn't care that my phone was cracked. I didn't care, you know. Now, the blood pressure thing, that did help, right?

I think being married does help with your health. But generally speaking, overall, that whole idea of the gold diggers and all that, that was true. And so circling back and being with somebody that knew me before I meant anything to anybody, that did mean something. That does provide a type of security. Because when you get a little bit of money, you suddenly become more handsome and your jokes become funnier. You know what I'm talking about. And eventually you learn how to see through all that shit. Oh, I see through all of it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when I was looking for a wife, I was looking for quality as opposed to this other stuff that's out here. But it takes time to grow into that, right? Maybe if I was 25, I would have seen it different. A lot of younger guys fall into that trap too. Yeah, yeah. It's a great pathway to misery. A lot of poison comes, the devil shows up in a nice

little dress and, you know, cute little butt and everything else. And next thing you know, you're miserable and it takes time. Right. Yeah. So, so I would say that for any, any young person wants to be smart, know that difference between what you want and what you need. Uh, you know, my wife, I married my wife because she was a nice mix she was what i wanted because i thought she was the most beautiful thing in the world but she was also what i needed because she's right i did have some of the health issues that that and she helped me through some of that nice and uh so it's a good combination no but you know what boys i mean like for real like i think we've helped each other like honestly it i mean it's just i mean i almost want to get emotional like a dating

counselor right now it's very fascinating how both of us have grown because we were together like we have healed each other i mean there's no perfect childhood there's no perfect relationship there's no perfect nothing all of us have things the thing is is that do you have a space from which you can heal by being together? I mean, that's the biggest thing with the black community. All of us find a space where you can be yourself, where you can let your guard down. You can talk about the struggles, the feelings, your thoughts,

your intimate thoughts and feelings. You know, intimacy is a big thing for me. If you have that space where you feel comfortable, and that's something that we have built with each other. And it took time. But I really do think we've gotten to the point in our marriage where I can just tell you anything and you could hear it. Voice can say anything to me. You know, voice gets triggered. I get triggered.

You have to be able to have that conversation with each other in a place where it's loving. That's what I really want for the black community. And that's how we raise kids. We want it for all communities, not just the black community. I mean, yes, I'm talking about the history, because of the history, because of the history, we need it. Love is in need of love for black people. Right. And I, and I would just generally say to, you know,

what I've learned over time is even though I do a lot of work in the black community, I've, I've, I've run into so many people that are, that don't look like me. Uh, when I was teaching at Syracuse, 98% of my students were not black. And I found that there's a lot of universality in terms of the frustrations with relationships and money and all that stuff. And so I think generally speaking, uh, therapy is something I think everyone can benefit from, you know? And I mean, I don't care if you're on top of your game and you you're the best in the world what you do therapy will help you become a better human being for sure and it'll also help you find your happiness so that's the biggest recommendation i make to anybody listen i'm glad you're saying that because a lot of guys are like opposed i think it's weak but uh i've done some therapy and it's helped me tremendously

so yeah therapy makes you stronger yeah because here's the thing when you when you get therapy and you really do the work, you don't have to pretend to be strong. A lot of guys pretend to be strong. They're like, oh, if I smoke a cigar and grow a beard and talk tough, I'll be, you know. But deep down, there's all this weakness they're trying to hide.

But when you're really whole and you really learn to love yourself, you're cool. You can step out here and just say whatever. You're truly not scared, right? So I don't pretend to be as fearless as some people think I am. I really am. You're that guy.

Yeah, I'm committed to it. It's like, no, I don't even have to pretend. I don't have to send you a signal that this is who I am because this is really who I am. And that's the goal. Yeah. Guys, closing messages and where can people find out more about you guys? Oh, gosh. Okay, so you can find me on Instagram coaching with Dr.

Alicia. Anybody who resonates with me, who wants to work with me, you could find me on my website, coaching with Dr. Alicia dot com. I really appreciate you inviting us on here. This is so important. I really do think that there's hope for the black community. And I know this is universal, but this is my dedication because that's who I am and how I grew up. And to be able to be a second generation healer, I think is so important. create a space for our children where they can feel free to talk about the things that are bothering them. If everybody did that, there'd be no wars. There'd be no fighting in our community. There'd be no internet fights back and forth. I think all of us would be healed if we have that safe space from which we can process things. Bad things are always going to happen to you. There's no guarantee that they won't. But where it turns into trauma is when you don't have a space of which you can talk. You can definitely reach out to a professional, but there's other therapeutic

moments that you can have in your life where you can be able to get it out and learn from it. That's the whole purpose of having things that happen that are unfortunate. Love that. Yeah. I kept stuff bottled in for years and yeah, I love that so much. You got to get that stuff out. Doctor? Real simple. My website is BoyceWatkins.com. And also I send out stocks. I like to look at the stock market constantly. That's why I wrote my dissertation on. So if anybody wants me to send them stocks that I like, you can just text the word stock to 87948. And if you text stock to 87948, I'll send you profit alerts, AI stocks. I think that preparing for the future is important. Understanding things like AI, understanding where the economy is going. AI is going to disrupt a lot of jobs. I think people know that by now, but it also creates a lot of opportunities. And there are going to be,

unfortunately, there's a divide coming where you're going to have the haves, the have-nots, and the noes and the no-nots, right? And that divide is only going to get wider, so it's very important to get ready for that. So I'm going to help with that. Thanks for coming on, guys. That was fun. Thank you. That was fun.

Thanks for watching. I think you had a lot of questions. No, we're good. We'll do a part two. That was fun, guys. Thanks for watching, as always. See you tomorrow. You have worked so hard to make your business into a reality, but achieving your next business goal, that can be overwhelming. What if you had someone to talk through the options and the next steps with? Someone who wants to see your business succeed while giving you peace of mind. That's why the bankers at Merchants Bank are here, ready with exceptional service every step of the way. Let's dream together. Visit merchantsbank.com to get started. Merchants Bank is a proud member of FDIC.