Digital Social Hour - Leadership Secrets from the Former Chipotle President Monty Moran | Digital Social Hour #51

Episode Date: July 20, 2023

Attention all podcast lovers! Get ready for an episode of the Digital Social Hour Podcast that will leave you inspired and motivated like never before. Hosted by the charismatic Sean Kelly and accompanied by his witty co-host Charlie Cavalier, this episode features a special guest, the incredible Monty Moran. Strap in and prepare for a captivating conversation that will take you on a journey from guacamole scandals to jet engines. Ever wondered what it's like to fly in a single engine turboprop at mind-blowing speeds? Well, Monty Moran shares his thrilling experience of flying at 31,000 feet and 380 miles per hour. But that's just the beginning! Dive deep into his intriguing story, from being a trial lawyer to joining the renowned Chipotle as President and COO. Discover how Monty built a culture of love, care, and empowerment at Chipotle, where leaders genuinely value and uplift their team members. Learn the difference between management and leadership, and why empowering others is the key to personal satisfaction and business success. Monty's philosophy of understanding, valuing, and loving people will leave you in awe and inspire you to create meaningful connections in every interaction you have. With fascinating insights into reading nonverbal cues, discovering true intentions, and fostering genuine connections, this episode is packed with wisdom and practical advice. Monty's upcoming book, "No One Is a Stranger," dives even deeper into his leadership style and his profound thoughts on love, truth, and authenticity. So, if you're ready to be seen, valued, loved, and understood, tune in to this powerhouse episode. Experience the joy of learning from others and creating win-win situations through curiosity and helpfulness. Don't miss out on this extraordinary conversation that will leave you with a lasting glow and a renewed sense of purpose. Join us on the Digital Social Hour Podcast, where connection and inspiration are just a listen away. Head over to loveisfree.com to find out more about Monty Moran and his upcoming book. Prepare to be captivated, enlightened, and uplifted. See you there! --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/digitalsocialhour/support Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Get 15% off a set of Brake Mess Select, Select Pro, or Import Direct Brake Pads and 2 Rotors now at O'Reilly Auto Parts. Oh, oh, oh, O'Reilly Auto Parts. Is it true you changed the flavor of the guacamole? No, I didn't change it. The recipe was already there when I got there and it was a great recipe. Although there's a little funny story that maybe you're alluding to. We had someone knock off the Chipotle concept. The guy said, no, no, no, I got it off the internet. The best leaders are the people who most effectively give their power away.

The worst leaders are the ones who most effectively keep power to themselves. welcome to the digital social hour podcast i'm your host sean kelly i'm here with my co-host charlie cavalier and our guest today monty moranan. How's it going, man? Good. Good to be here. How are you guys doing? Excellent. Can't complain. You flew here on the jet? Well, I've got a single engine turboprop. So it's a jet engine, but with a propeller. Okay.

So it's not like, you know, the snapping suspender twin engine jet, you know. How many does it seat? Six. Six-feeter. Nice. But it's super fast. Flies at 31,000 feet and 330 knots, which is about 380 miles an hour. Wow. So that's quick. And you said you went

to maine earlier you were in europe flying it yeah well i bought this one recently from the factory in france and i flew it back from france i flew northern switzerland and then iceland greenland and then skipped canada landed in banger maine and then over to colorado the next day so you literally flew to france and then bought it and flew it back yeah yeah yeah well technically i didn't own it till we got here okay you know what i mean so i had to fly it over here and then we closed on it here so it was cool when you want to fly somewhere you have to contact the other airport right and let them know you're coming actually you oddly enough you don't oh really you just you can just if you want you can just get in and go but if you're flying there's two two ways of flying vfr and ifr so vfr is visual flight rules and there's

ifr which is instrument rules so if you want to play in clouds or above 18 000 feet you got to be on an instrument flight plan in that case yes you have to say i'm going from here to that airport and then air traffic control tells you where to fly and you're on with them the whole time doing what they say right those are like commercial they'll let you vary if you say hey look i got a big thunderstorm let me go around it they'll say sure okay so it's very reasonable those are like the commercial flights right well or even my flight just yeah i'm flying ifr almost all the time in my plane because i don't want to be below 18 000 feet because you go way slower and burn tons more fuel wow and my plane burns a lot it brings you know it burns 60 gallons an hour the jets that

you know the twin engine jets like even the small ones they're burning three four five six times that gee a lot a lot of fuel so the airline industry must be low margin then it's usually historically been extremely low margin then it's usually historically been extremely low margin yeah really really bad i think that yeah they're really really tight because there's so much competition right right because especially spirit you could fly to cali from here for like 30 bucks yeah that's there i mean they're definitely losing money on that there's no way they're not losing money 30 chance you die also but that means 70 you're totally fine yeah you know yeah i want to dive into your story i know

we got into flying right off the bat but i'd love to hear your story from start to where you're at now oh gosh that's that's too i mean i'd be a minute don't let me go to don't let me spark notes summer where's that spark notes summer spark have you heard of spark notes no oh is that like a like a super yeah we had spark notes and cliff notes. I was in college. They were actually red stuff like that. Um, no, you know, I, I grew up, um, born in Newport, Rhode Island, but moved to Colorado when I was pretty young. Um, and, uh, grew up in Boulder, Colorado, went to, you know, school, even went to CU. So I went all the way through college in Boulder, Colorado, then moved out to LA for 10 years,

moved out there. Um, it was an insurance adjuster for a few years, you know, got into surfing, um, ended up going to law school out there at Pepperdine, uh, became a lawyer in LA, sort of LA law thing for a few years, and then, uh, moved back to Colorado to have kids. I figured it'd be a good place to raise kids. And since I'd grown up there, it was kind of a nice place. So moved back to Colorado, joined a firm there, had three kids who are now most grownups. My daughter's 18. She's about to flee the coop, but my boys are 25 and 23. So yeah, three kids, had all of them in Boulder, raised them in Boulder, and became a lawyer at a law firm in Denver

for about 10 years, became CEO of that law firm. Most of that time I was running the law firm. And then, you know, long story short, I made the jump over to Chipotle as president and COO and then became co-CEO of Chipotle pretty quick. And I spent a little over 12 years there at Chipotle. So there's the cliff notes. Yeah.

I don't even know where to start. Chipotle? Yeah, Chipotle, right? That's a big change from law firm to Chipotle. What caused that change? Well, yeah. So I did, as a lawyer, I was a trial lawyer, so I was doing mostly litigation, but I also did some transactional work, like contracts, real estate, that kind of stuff. But most of what I did was representing folks who are either in partnership disputes or corporate litigation, real estate litigation um did all very broad practice did a whole bunch of stuff but but basically was a courtroom lawyer trial lawyer um so i love that it was really fun i mean it's you know super stressful uh the things

that i loved about it were exactly the same things i hated about it right like super high stress but super high excitement right right you know super hard work but you know payoffs and feeling great about winning a case and it's like big highs you know i wouldn't super hard work, but you know, payoffs and feeling great about winning a case. And it's like big highs, you know, I wouldn't say big lows, but hard, you know, super stressful. But anyway, I love being a lawyer, I started getting a number of clients that asked me to become like general counsel, like, hey, can you help us with this and help us with that? And I'm like, those things aren't legal, and you're paying me as a lawyer. And they're like, I don't care, you're good at this help us so my practice basically started to become more broad than really a lawyer would normally be you know i started handling you know advise i started interviewing people for some of my

clients for jobs you know to see if i thought they'd be good you know because people found that i was pretty thorough at kind of vetting people anyway so chipotle i um i kind of took on more and more of a role they asked me to get involved in the leadership team, which is kind of the heads of all the departments. They asked me to come be at all the board meetings. I started doing all the notes as the secretary of the company. Even though there was another guy who was officially the secretary, I would take the notes and help him produce them. Anyway, so eventually, the founder of Chipotle asked me to come on board and run the company. And I said no for four and a half years because I said, no, I'm a lawyer.

I'm not a food guy. Actually, I've always been a food guy. I mean, I worked at Dairy Queen when I was 15. And I worked at restaurants, and I love food, and I love to cook, and I'm really, really into food. But I hadn't had, other than Dairy Queen and being a waiter, I was like, hey, I'm a lawyer. But after about four and a half years, he said something to me

that really challenged me. He said, Monty, a lawyer is what you do, but a leader is who you are. Because he had come into the law firm and he had seen that we built a really great culture at that law firm. I mean, we had the hardest working law firm, but people were really stoked. It's kind of a long story, actually, but basically, it was a culture of all top performing lawyers who were super, super empowered, who were really into what they were doing. It was like a love festival, but also really hardworking love festival. So we were super profitable, super profitable, but also having a great time. And we, you know, all the lawyers wanted to work for us. The firm was just really going off and I had been made the CEO of the firm. So he said,

Hey man, how'd you, how'd you make this culture? This is awesome. Like I want Chipotle to be like this. Can you come to Chipotle to do it? And I'm like, nah, nah, nah, nah. But after four and a half years, he said, yeah, you know, you may be a lawyer is what you're doing, but a leader is who you are. How about come to Chipotle and you can affect a lot more lives and build a culture that's going to affect a lot more people? And I said, you know, well, and eventually I said, okay, you know what? I'll try it. So I made the jump over and became president and COO initially.

And then shortly thereafter, CEO of Chipotle. Incredible. I want to dive into the culture part because a lot of people struggle with building culture. It's actually really hard to pull off. So what's some advice you could give for leaders looking to build better culture? Well, I mean, to be really blunt, and I'm only this blunt now. I probably wouldn't have been as blunt back when I was CEO, but you need to love the people you lead. Okay, so that sounds so groovy, right?

But love is actually substantive. It has edge. It's tough. You know, it's like, so what do I mean by love? Well, what I mean is, of the people you lead, you've got to get to know them. You got to care about them. I don't mean care about them just for what they're doing for you. Care about them, period, like as a human being. So you have to get to know them. You have to care about them. I don't mean care about them just for what they're doing for you. Care about them, period, like as a human being.

So you have to get to know them. You have to care about them. You have to come to understand them. You have to understand what they want for themselves as their personal vision in life. Forget you. What do they want? What's going to make them happy? What are their dreams that they want to achieve?

And you get to know that, right? And then what you do is you work with them to give them a vision that is something they want to do, you know, but that also will advance your cause. You know, so you're working, it's kind of like a meeting of the minds, right? You know, the only source of a leader's power is that somebody chooses to follow that leader. Okay, there's a huge difference between management and leadership. To me, management and leadership are, well, both are methods by which to try to, you know, get something done in a company. One's terrible and one's great. Okay, management is about manipulation.

At the end of the day, what management is really about is manipulating people. My definition of management is trying to get people to do what you want them to do. Getting someone to do what you want them to do. You do it by carrots and sticks and performance reviews, you know, threatening to fire them or saying, hey, I'll give you more money if you do better. Hey, bonuses, you know, you know, hey, you got to hit this metric and contests and competitions to try to get people to motivate, right, to motivate them. But leadership isn't about getting someone to do what you want them to do. Leadership is about getting someone to do something that they want to do, which also furthers your mission. You know, so for instance, at Chipotle, when I wanted to create a great culture at Chipotle,

initially the company's vision statement was to change the way people think about and eat fast food, which is really cool. I understood that. That sounded cool. As a CEO, I understood that. But as someone coming in back then, sort of a few bucks over minimum wage maybe,

do they really think they can come in and change the way people think about it? Is that something they even understand? Is that something they care about on day one? Probably not. But if I tell them, hey, if you come to Chipotle, you're going to be a future leader of this company. We're going to teach you how to lead, not manage. We're going to help you become a part of a team of all top performers who are empowered to achieve really high standards. You're going to learn to run a multi-million dollar business. We want you to be the future of the company. We're not just bringing you in for the hourly position, but we want you to be a future manager. And the only reason we're hiring you, we're not hiring you just to come in here and schlep around at 10 bucks an hour forever. Or now, I suppose

you'd say 15, 16 bucks an hour these days, right? We're not hiring you just to come in and be a worker. We're hiring you as a future leader. We want you to come help us grow this company, by which we're trying to do some really important things in this world. So people, when people saw that, um, you know, they were like, wow, yeah, wow, cool. And so basically what you're showing someone is, you know, them like, even at the interview stage, you're interviewing someone like they can tell the difference, whether you just want to, whether you actually care about them as a person or whether you just want them to come in and do something for you, a huge difference. Right. So you come in and say to someone, look, man, you know, Hey, I'm really glad you're here. Tell me about you. What's going on? You know,

and you just get to know them and they know, hey, this person really wants to get to know me. So you get to know someone, you come to understand them, you bring vulnerability to the conversation. These are the things, these are the ways that you empower a person. So I've got a definition of empowerment that I'm really proud of, actually. It took me a while to write this back in the day when I was trying to sort of, when I was trying to institutionalize this kind of leadership at Chipotle for the 75,000 people who worked for us there. So empowerment means feeling confident in your ability and encouraged by your circumstances such that you feel motivated and at liberty to fully devote your talents to a purpose. So let's just dissect that for a second. First of all, it's a feeling. That's the first word. Feeling, confident in your ability. So just like love,

empowerment's a feeling. You can't give someone empowerment by saying, you're empowered. Hey, you're empowered now. It's like, that doesn't make any difference. It's like me saying, hey, love me. Love me right now. It's like, you're gonna be like, okay, you know, whatever, dude. What do you mean? Right? So if you want someone to love you, what do you do? You behave, right, in a way that causes you to deserve their love, right? Well, likewise, if you want to empower someone, what do you do? You create an environment in which they will become empowered, where they will have that feeling.

What is that environment? One where they're confident in their ability. And that part's the part that almost everyone spends all their time on and it's the easiest part and it's the least important but it's still important confident in their ability just means training they know what they're doing they got the tools to do it they can be successful confident your ability okay um the first time you did this podcast you probably weren't that confident your ability you're probably a little shaky is this right and people think i'm a dork you know right there's nervousness yeah but after a while you're like hey i know how to do it i know where to put the mic i know how to set it up people are kind of digging what i a dork. There's nervousness. But after a while, you're like, hey, I know how to do it. I know where to put the mic.

I know how to set it up. People are kind of digging what I'm doing. I'm confident in my ability. But what does it take for you to be encouraged by your circumstances as an employee? Your boss has to give you their attention, know you, care about you, be willing to challenge you, want you to be at your best. And they have to have a vision that you believe in. You have to believe they're going to take you to a better place. So if you're in an environment like that, and what's the place that all of us, hopefully,

growing up, had that feeling of empowerment? Hopefully. Hopefully with our parents. Hopefully our parents give us an environment where we're confident in our ability, but also encouraged, like, hey, man, whatever I do, they love me. Whatever I do, they're going to feed me. Whatever I do, they're going to help point me in the right direction. And if I come home at 13 with a glass of scotch on one hand and a joint on the other, they'll probably point me in a different direction, you know what I mean? If they care about me. Now, a lot of parents aren't good parents. Let's be clear about that. But the best parents are the parents that teach a child, that cause a child to feel confident in their ability and encouraged by

their circumstances, such that that child feels motivated and at liberty to fully devote his talents to his life, to grow, to blossom, to be something wonderful. That's what a great parent does. That's exactly what a great CEO does. It's what a great supervisor does, what a great boss, quote unquote, does. It's the same. It's no different. It's what a great coach does. We were just talking about new coach at CU. Well, what's the goal of that coach? To put a team on the field that's confident in their ability, that's excellent, that has top performers on it, and that feels encouraged by their circumstances such that they want for themselves to go win football games. Not just to win for the coach, but to win for themselves,

because it's their vision. You'll fight way harder for, I mean, right now, you guys do this podcast, it's yours, right? It's a little different. It's your vision. You're doing what you want to do. But if you're doing this for a boss right now, and the boss was superb, like a leader,

and they gave you a vision, you'd probably feel just as much a sense of ownership over it. But if you did it for a boss who's like, look, do it, get the ratings up. We need more money out of this. You'd kind of be like, that's your vision, dude. That's not what makes me thrive every day. That doesn't light me up. To make you money? It's not working for me.

Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So it has to be like, as your leader, if I was your leader, I have to find out, you know, what's Sean about? Like, what's his deal? What makes him click? What does he want with his life? Is there something you want badly that you can do along with me that will help both of

us achieve something great? Well, that's what we did at Chipotle. We showed the 75,000 people that, hey, you know, this place is going to be a beautiful place for you to grow, to blossom, to develop, and to become the best version of yourself. Right. That's a lot of people to manage. Yeah. And it's funny you just said that.

It's too many people to manage because to manage them means to manipulate them. And that's a lot of manipulation. Okay. But it's not too many people to lead. Okay. Because leadership is way more powerful. Leadership is about giving away your power. And management is about retaining power.

So you don't like the word manage. I don't like it at all. But the word doesn't bother me as much. I mean, at Chipotle, we had general managers, right? That was the title. Yeah. Although, long story, we created the restaurateur program, which was a much more prestigious position.

But at the same position, but the restaurateur was someone who led instead of managing. So management and leadership, yeah, I don't like the word management. I don't like, it's not that I don't like the word, right? Like you can say like, hey, I managed to change my tire today. I don't mind the word. Okay. But the word management as used when people say like, hey, you know,

I want to, I got to manage, you know, you got to manage people well. You got to hold them accountable. I hate that. Hold them accountable? Why would you ever have to hold someone accountable? Why would you have to hold someone accountable? Because that hold them accountable why would you ever have to hold someone accountable why would you have to hold someone accountable because they don't want to do it right right yeah like i don't have to what's your favorite food oh ice cream okay i do not have to hold you accountable to eatable ice cream you have to hold me accountable to not eatable yeah right you know it's like you know you get a 10 year old kid and he's got a

birthday cake in front of him he blows out candles. You don't have to hold him accountable to eat a piece. Right. He wants to eat a piece. So why can't you also in the context of a business cause, you know, give your people a vision that is sexy and wonderful and exciting. So that they want to do it. Right. If you can't do that, then you're stuck managing your whole life, which means you're stuck trying to manipulate people. And guess what?

Long term manipulation. It doesn't work. No. People guess what? Long-term manipulation, it doesn't work. People resent it. It ultimately backfires. It doesn't work. Wow. So it's about making your employees feel free. Yes. It's about offering.

It's about putting your employees in an environment, in a situation where they want to do something for themselves, which also happens to advance the business. For themselves, because humans are naturally selfish. Well, yeah, of course. I mean, yeah, I don't think selfish is bad, right? Selfish, if you have the right, if you're selfish for the right reasons. I think selfishness is great

if you look at it in this context. You know, I think it is in everyone's best interest to be the best person they can to other people. I think if you are selfish and intelligent, you will try to do the best you can for other people in this world. Because I have a saying that I said at Chipotle and I said it at my law firm. And this is my foundational principle for my life. And I think it should be everyone's financial, I mean financial. I think it should be, it's funny.

I think it should be everyone's foundational principle for their lives because I think it's the most important thing for any of us. And that is this, here's my kind of rule of life. Each of us in this lifetime will be rewarded based on our effectiveness in making the people around us better. Okay? That's what's going to cause you to be rewarded, you to be rewarded, anyone to be rewarded in a way that really matters. So each of us will be rewarded based on our effectiveness

in making the people around us better. And if you look at anyone in the world who's been highly admired over the years, you know, you could pick Jesus or Buddha or Mahatma Gandhi or Mother Teresa or Martin Luther King or whoever comes to your mind, what are all those people so highly, why are they so highly regarded?

Because they spent the bulk of the thrust of their lives, the bulk of their time trying to make other, do something good for humanity or others. You know, that's what they were primarily occupied with was the act of making other people better. And guess what? They're heroes, right? They're, you know, you can decide to the hero or not, but they're very admired people, right? You know? And so that which is most admirable, admirable for anyone is to help other people, right? Yeah. And also, it happens to be what makes people wealthy is to help other people.

What makes people happy is to help other people. What makes people find contentment in life is to help other people. And there is nothing else that makes you happy in life, in my opinion, not long term. Wow. I mean, the day you buy a Ferrari, you're stoked for a few days, right? Cool, I've got a Ferrari. You know, maybe a woman buys a piece of jewelry she loves, or a guy for that matter, makes them happy for a few days. But all those little accomplishments, all those things that we do for ourselves, just for ourselves, the pleasure we get from that is fleeting. It goes

away. It's kind of like climbing Everest, even. If you're a mountain climber and you wanted to climb Everest and you train for it for two years, you's kind of like climbing Everest even. If you're a mountain climber and you wanted to climb Everest and you train for it for two years, you go up there and you plant the flag and you're like, yes! But what do you feel 20 seconds, 30 seconds, or at least 20 minutes or 30 minutes? Well, let's say you get down from Everest. Okay, now you're two days later.

How do you feel? Now what? Now what? That's exactly what you're thinking because that achievement, even though it's cool and I'm not knocking it, that's super cool. I'm not climbing Everest all the time. I admire someone going to Everest.

That's cool. I like that. But let's just say, does that cause them to be happy for life? They're just going to glow and bask in that accomplishment for life? It doesn't work that way. It doesn't work that way. But if you go do something for someone else by which you help someone else have a better life, there's a lasting glow that comes from that.

And when you keep doing that. So that's why I say leaders, the best leaders are the people who most effectively give their power away. The worst leaders are the ones who most effectively keep power to themselves. The best leaders give their power away such that the people around them get better. And as those people around them that get better and rise up and accomplish more and more and more, they go, ah, this is nice. This reflects, you know, I feel good that I've been able to empower all those people to rise up.

And also, guess what happens to those people? You know, I used to always say at Chipotle, if you want to be really successful here, make the people around you better. Because that was our definition of top performer. I gave you the definition of empowerment. My definition of top performer there was a top performer is someone who has the desire and ability to perform excellent work. And through their constant effort to do so elevates themselves, the people around them, and the company. Okay, so you're,

there's this concept of not only so if you boil it down, it means does great work and makes others better. Two things does great work makes others better. So I just let it be known that Chipotle and my law firm and anywhere else I work today, hey, if you do something really, really, really well, personally, you're a great doer. That's cool. That's awesome. That means you're a great doer. It doesn't mean you're a top performer. To be a top performer, you have to be a great doer, do great work, but also have a positive influence on those people around you.

And if you're at a growing business and you don't do that, then how are you going to grow? How are you going to train new people? And at Chipotle, we needed to train tens of hundreds of thousands a year of new people you know we didn't bring them in and train them and move them into management positions yeah you're constantly dealing with new people one of the skills you developed was reading body language and non-verbal cues big time yeah what can you learn about someone from that whoo so much you know communication to me when people think of communication they usually think of the spoken word, right? Like someone's listening to the podcast and we're speaking and they're hearing it.

And that's the communication, right? But the reality is, to me, I think if you really want to understand somebody, you have to be careful not to listen too carefully to their words. Not to listen too carefully to their words. Because words, we are all sociologically designed to be, at least in some regards, a bit deceptive. How are you doing today, Sean? If you're having a crappy day right now, you're going to say, pretty good. Because you're not, you know, it's not socially normal for you to say, actually, I'm having a terrible day. How are you, though? No, no, everyone goes, good. How are you? Good. How are you? Good. How are you? Good. How are you?

That's what I say, right? No one goes shitty, unless you're a good friend, maybe. You might say I'm shitty, but whatever, you know. But we all learn to deceive with our words in thousands of little ways. But we're not as good at deceiving with our posture, with our pace of speech, with our body language, with our eye contact, with 30 other. I wrote about all this in my first book, but towards the very end, the second to last chapter is about communication. So I think if you want to be a really good communicator and really understand someone, do not pay too much attention

to the words they're saying. I'll give you an example. So I used to do, I did like 25,000 interviews of crew people at Chipotle to understand how the leadership was going and to promote or not promote their boss to restaurateur. And, you know, so a lot of times I would say, hey, so how is it working with, you know, let's say Bill. Let's say the manager's name is Bill, and I want to find out how effective Bill is in terms of being a leader. Well, how is it working for Bill? A lot of times I'd be like, oh, it's pretty good. You know, if they said it just like that, oh, it's pretty good. I would say, oh, so why didn't you like it?

No, no, no, I said it's pretty good. I said, nah, I know that's what you said, but it's not what you meant. You meant that it's just okay. There's something missing. You're saying you don't like. I'd love to hear about what you don't like. And they'd be like, okay, well, I'll tell you what. Here's what I don't like.

And I was never wrong. Wow. Because the tone is so much more important. I mean, think about saying, I love you. Let's just say, I want to tell you I love you. Listen to the difference in these two tones, you know? I love you or I love you. I mean, those are hugely different meanings, you know, right?

Just by tone. Well, so it's just the way it is, the way we speak to people, the way, whether we speak fast or slow, excitedly or not excitedly, those things are conveying so much information. And they are very difficult. It's very difficult to lie with those things. That's why actors and actresses are paid so much money. They learn to bring all of it together to play a role, right?

That's a fictitious role. That's not really who they are, right? You could get an actor, for instance, who's an introvert, but who plays an extrovert very, very well. But in order to do that, they can't just say lots of words. They have to have a body tone and to be a great actor or a great actress. I guess that term is passe. Now they're all actors, aren't they? But if you want to be a great actor, you need to be able to match your words with the body language and intonation and pace and so forth that conveys a convincing character well the rest of us who aren't you know academy award-winning actors we're pretty easy to

understand that's why the best poker players in the world are watching people like a hawk you know you know if you go if you go raise you 5 000 right you're looking all bold you have to ask what's that person trying to convey they're trying to convey they're strong why would they try to convey they're strong if they're that strong. Why would they try to convey they're strong? If they're that strong, do they really want me to think they're strong? I love poker. I love it. It's, I love it. It's such a wonderful, like, it's such a wonderful way to understand people better. You'd probably be good at it. I'm a pretty good poker player. I mean, I've been around some, some, some of the best in the world. And so I'm, I say it carefully, but yeah, I'm a pretty good player. But if I'm, if I am a good

player, it's because I'm really good at reading people. And I can, you know, and it's based on all those things that are certainly isn't based on what they say. Okay, it's like what they say is probably going to be deceptive, right? Although sometimes they'll say something absolutely true with the hope that you'll double get your second guess it. So it's a game. It's a fun. It's funny that way. Nice. So much of your guiding philosophy is based around one-on-one relationships, empowering individuals, creating culture. What roadblocks has remote working created to sort of implementing a lot of the things that you firmly believe in? No, I think a lot. I mean, I'm kind of – I feel lucky that that wasn't really an issue when I was still CEO of Chipotle or CEO of my law firm.

I think it's really tough, and a lot of people are coming to me, you know, just in my consulting capacity and saying, hey, what can we do? You know, and I think the answer is you actually have to get out and get with people. Like I say, if you just listen to someone's words. Now, a Zoom call is a little better because you get to see some, right? You get to see their face and you get to hear their tone. And there's more than, there's a little more you can pick up. But also just being in person, there's just a million things.

I mean, there's literally just so many little micro bits of information that are being transmitted that might cause me to be able to say in person to you, hey, Sean, you know, are you okay? You know, it seems like something's bothering you today. Now, what's really cool about this is, let's say I don't even know you that well, which I don't know you that well. I met you today. Okay, so, but let's say that I got the sense you were kind of bummed out when I walked in the door today. I said, Hey, Sean. And you said, Hey, how are you doing? I'm like, good. How are you? And you said, I'm pretty good. You know, I might say, Hey, what's wrong? Are you okay? Now, if I, in other words, I didn't really listen to what you said, because you said you're okay. And I said, Are you, are you sure? Seems like

something's wrong. Let's say I'm right that something is wrong. So let's say basically, I called you, right? You tried to say you're okay. I didn't believe you. That's what's really going on, isn't it? Like if I say, hey, how are you doing, Sean? And you go, pretty good. And I go, oh, you're not good. What's wrong? Even if I've never met you before, I might say it's being a bit nosy, it's being a bit bold, but also isn't it being a bit loving for me to actually give a shit? So what happens is when I challenge someone or overrule their words in favor of what I know they're really saying, it actually is highly complimentary. It shows that I'm going deeper, that I care, that I'm looking, that I want to know what they're really thinking. Right.

You know what I mean? So again, back to the manager example. Hey, Charlie, hey, what do you think of your manager, Betsy? You know, and if you go, yeah, she's you know she's pretty good i mean that answer for sure means you do not think she's very right because what it sounds like when you think she's awesome is you'll say oh betsy's awesome man she's so cool like she brought me in here she taught me a lot she helps me it'll sound like that and it just will right if someone's really making you better empowering you cares about you helping lift you up wants you to be at your best is

challenging you to be the best version of yourself it's going to come out boom like a cannonball out of your answer it just will and i've done it you know 25 000 times i've seen what great looks like so if someone goes and they might even say they might even say oh she's so great she's great they'll be like wow that tone doesn't sound like she's great at all so tell me what's not so great no i said she's great yeah no you didn't that's not you that's what't sound like she's great at all. So tell me what's not so great. No, I said she's great. Yeah, no, you didn't. That's not, that's what your words said. That's not what your body said.

So tell me what's going on. So I got this reputation at Chipotle and I think I have a reputation with everyone who knows me. Don't bother me. You know, right? Because I'm going to see through it. And I'm not saying that as like some, I'm some great guy. I'm just, I care a lot about this stuff.

I noticed stuff like that. I look at body language, intonation, tone. I care about people and I, and I want to know what's really going on. Like I'm a total, like the term, what ferreting out. I want to ferret out what's really going on with you. Even if I don't know you well, maybe, especially if I don't know you well, because I'll be like, Hey, wait, there's something with this dude. I don't quite understand. I'll be like, I want to get to know you. I want to understand what makes you tick. It's just, that's my passion, is understanding people. Wow. So since that's my passion, I dig.

I dig early. I dig deep. And you might think that's offensive. But actually, most people really like when someone digs, because what does it mean? It means you care. Yeah. Right? If I'm curious about you, like if I just go, wow, you know, Charlie, good to know you.

So now I'm asking you questions about you. It feels like, hey, this guy kind of wants to get to know me. That's flattering. Yeah. Right? It just is. You're taking the time. Right?

Yeah. If someone walks by you on a street and doesn't look you in the eye, you know, if it's just two of you on a street in a small town in America, to walk by each other without looking at each other in the eye would be kind of weird, right? It'd be like an intentional snub. You know, maybe not in New York with a thousand people. You just go, okay, I can't look at all these people. It's crazy, right?

Or in LA, whatever, Chicago. But if you're the only two people in a tumbleweed town and you're walking a hundred yards towards me and a hundred yards towards you, we're going to say like, hey, dude, hey, how are you doing? Hey, pretty good, right? Because otherwise it's offensive, right? It's a statement to not look at you, right?

It's like, I'm not going to look at this guy. Like I'm really not going to, you know? And so anyway, that's what turns me on is really understanding people and getting to know them. And and when you do that the nice thing about it it really turns it turns everyone on to get to be no yeah because everyone in this world wants the same thing everyone wants to be seen valued understood and loved like everyone wants that there's no one in the world who doesn't want that everyone wants to be seen valued understood and loved even some introvert who's home and not wanting to be outside they really do want to be seen valued

loved understood but they have fear that maybe makes them not go outside because they're they don't want to be what don't they want they don't want to be rejected judged misunderstood not you know devalued right but everyone wants to be seen valued loved understood absolutely and so how do you go about that well the answer is people are going about it and for you know for in 8 billion different ways, some which are very effective, some which are very ineffective. And I think as a really good leader, I think you want to help people go about that in a way that's effective. Is it true you changed the flavor of the guacamole? No, I didn't change it.

No, the recipe was already there when I got there, and it was a great recipe. Although there's a little funny story that maybe you're alluding to. We had someone knock off the Chipotle concept. It was actually here in Vegas. It resulted in a lawsuit. It was a long time ago. But somebody basically knocked off our concept. And so Chipotle filed a lawsuit saying, hey, you stole our trade secrets and so forth, which are like our recipe and stuff.

And the guy said, no, no, no, I got it off the internet. So we did discovery and we said, well, show us where you got it off the internet. And he showed us a recipe from the internet. And the recipe from the internet showed that the guacamole contained garlic. Chipotle's guacamole does not contain garlic. In fact, one of the secret ingredients of Chipotle's guacamole, you know, was the absence of garlic. And so the fact that they, and so we went and took their guacamole you know was the absence of garlic and so the fact that they and so we went and took their guacamole from their restaurant and and did it put it through sample you know put it through a test

to find out what it contained and guess what no garlic so they said here's the recipe which contained garlic and that's they said that's how we make our guacamole and we went and got their guac and said no it isn't how you make your clock so they did have our real recipe wow and so that's how we proved that they had stolen it from us anyways kind of funny story wow interesting what do you think about seed oils because chipotle is one of the first fast food brands to announce they're removing it are you a fan of seed oils i mean you know i don't want to say much about that i've got i've got opinions about it but i just i want to be careful because i don't want to denounce something unless i really really understand it well i think they're generally there's some thoughts that they're inflammatory and I think it's probably

better to go away from them. But that's my personal opinion. I don't know enough to be, you know, I don't know enough to proclaim something that I'm confident about. Do you have a diet you stick to then out of curiosity? I mean, I have a way that I eat. The only reason I correct the diet thing is, you know, like, if I really want a hot foot sundae, actually, I eat a lot of those. I just pretended that that was a occasional thing. And that's a lie. You know, that's just not true, but, but you know, I tend to not eat grain, really not much grain at all. So I eat meat and vegetables. So you don't eat Chipotle anymore. Oh no, I do. I mean, Chipotle is a good place because you just say no rice. Oh, no rice. You know what I mean? Or get

a salad. I tend to get a salad with chicken and peppers and, you know, sometimes beans, salsa. Chipotle's a great place to not eat grain. Right. Yeah. So you left corporate America in 2016, decided to get your pilot's license, travel the world. Why did you decide to do that? Because that's a big change in lifestyle.

Yeah. I mean, I just think, you know, we had such a great run at Chipotle. It was awesome. It was really fun. And I think there was just, it's kind of boils down to like life is short, kind of wanted to go out and do, you know, have some more time. I spent, you know, I was, I worked very, very, very hard at Chipotle. It was, it occupied all of my time. I loved that it did. It was, it was really fun. I,

it was almost like on any given day, I'd feel like I would do it for free because I loved it. It was great, great, great fun. Um, but you know, I, I, when I, when I left, I, I wrote my book, you know, and I've written another book now, which is coming out on June 6th. And that one's called No One is a Stranger. It took me forever to come up with the title. And finally, I read it again. And that sentence was in it. I said, yeah, that's the title for the book. Interesting.

And this No One is a Stranger thing, by the way, gets back to kind of what I was saying about my love for understanding people. I think the most important thing you can do in the world is, you know, connect with people. I mean, in terms of your own personal happiness, right? I already said that I think everyone will be rewarded based on their effectiveness and making others better. But how can you make others better without connecting with them? You can't. But if you connect with people really effectively, it's a really satisfying thing, because there's a lot of love flowing, right? There's, you know, and so my second book is really about, you know, how to make those connections. I talk about the things that get in the way of those connections.

And I talk a lot about how you live a much more fulfilling life when you get really good at connecting with people and having relationships. And it doesn't have to be even long-term relationships. It can be that guy walking down the street in the tumbleweed town, walking by for one second. You can have a really pleasant, really loving, really deep, lastingly warm interaction in two seconds.

Wow. Absolutely. Just eye contact? I mean, have you ever gone to a grocery store, you know, and someone kind of like, someone behind, you know, at the checkout counter sort of said like, hey, how are you doing? You said, good. I hope you have a good day. And they kind of meant it. Yeah. You kind of like, oh, cool. It kind of felt good.

Yeah, that's happened to me, actually. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Or you've had the opposite right yeah or some guys like hey next yeah yeah okay here you go here's your change you want a receipt no okay next you know and you kind of feel like oh that didn't feel very good like you might not think it because we're used to it but i always realize it like because i'm looking it's just that's it's a passion of mine right so i i'm always going oh that was a that i'm always feeling what it feels like. I mean, being with you two guys in the room right now could feel great. It could feel somewhere in the middle.

It could feel terrible. How does it feel? It feels good. No, it feels really nice. No, I think it's, it's, I mean, I think of you guys both as like genuine and curious guys and curiosity is, like I say, it's flattering because it's like, you're interested in something I have to say. Cool.

I'm glad to talk, you know, but it could be really weird if you were really cold and, you know, like really judgmental or like I'm saying something and you're like over there going, oh God, I don't agree. I don't agree at all. It's not even about that you have to agree. It's about, do you respect what I'm saying? And are you curious about it? If you disagree in a way where you're curious, like, hey, you know, you said something, I'm not sure what you mean. Let me, you know, but if there's curiosity in it, then it feels good. Right. If there's judgment, it feels bad. So curiosity is always loving. Curiosity is always loving.

Curiosity is loving. Judgment is always not loving. Right? And judgment isn't, I mean, unless you're going, yeah, I judged that it's going to be a thunderstorm today. I don't mean that. I mean, but judging a human being negatively, right, that's never feels good. You know? And so, um, when I, you know, I'm kind of

famous for asking a lot of questions, you know, um, but I've never had someone be offended by my questions because I'm only asking them to understand someone better. And that is flattering. Why? If I ask you questions, what have I just done? I've just promoted you to the position of my teacher, at least momentarily. Even if I'm walking down the street, I go, hey, do you... Again, back to the town with just two of us. I stop you. Hey, dude, how are you doing? My name is Monty. Oh, my name's Sean. Cool. Good to meet you. Do you know what the weather is going to be like this afternoon? Because I'm going to be flying out this afternoon. You know what the weather is like? Let's say you happen to have just watched TV and you know the weather. Don't you feel kind of good that you can tell me?

Yeah. You know, like, hey, yeah, actually, you know what? I just saw it on TV. There's gonna be a thunderstorm. I mean, you feel helpful. Yeah. Right. And while you, so it feels good to you to help me. Yeah. It always feels good to help someone. Right. And it also feels good to be helped. It's a win-win. Yeah. And these win-wins are available everywhere in the world, every day between everybody. But people don't realize it. So you have too many people living from ego where they think that they're trying to extract something from someone to give them what they want. But the reality is, you don't need to do that.

You don't need to extract from someone because what you can instead do is by asking someone a question, for example, you promote them to the position of being your teacher. You give them an opportunity, like my silly example about the weather, to be of help to me, which feels good to you. And also helps me, which was nice because I needed the help. Win-win. Boom. It could be 10 seconds long and it could be really feel nice. Hey, I had the neatest, you'd be, it would sound silly, you know, if you went and told your friend, you know, I had the neatest relationship today for four seconds with a guy in the street. But you could just say like, God, I had this real quick interaction with someone on the street. It just felt really nice. It was cool. And if you have six of those a day, let's just say, six of those really nice

interactions with someone that go deep, that have some meaning, that have some help or some back and forth or some connection or some need that's fulfilled, that brightens your whole day, brightens your whole life, you know? And that's why, you know, I was just giving a speech yesterday to a company, and I was saying how powerful the words, I need you are. It's the most powerful words in the world for so many reasons. Number one, if I say, God, Sean, I really need you. First of all, even if you're a dead stranger, you're probably not just going to go, I don't even know you. You probably won't say that. You know, you probably say like, oh, what do you need? Now, if I say I need a million bucks in cash, small unmarked bills, you're going to be like, okay, dude, I'm not going to give you that.

But if I say, you know, I just need to hold this door for a minute because I'm going to move this cart through. You'll be like, oh, cool. Right? You want to help me. Why? Because humans generally are inherently good and want to help one another. And they feel good helping one another. So the words I need you say they promote you again to someone who can help me.

Therefore, you are in a superior position to me. As soon as I say I need you, say, they promote you again to someone who can help me. Therefore, you are in a superior position to me. As soon as I say, I need you, I've made you my superior. That doesn't matter. If I'm CEO and you're a guy who started at my company yesterday, and I say, I need you, I just promoted you to my superior. You are now superior for that moment to the CEO. Okay. That feels good.

Yeah. Okay. But also, what does it mean for me to say, I need you? For me to say, I need you means I have just made myself vulnerable. I've just told you I'm not an impervious dude who has all the answers, who has all the skills, who has all the strength, who can do it all himself. I just said, I don't have all the skill, all the strength. I need you.

Right. That busts me wide open to be an actual real human being. That shows that that and that vulnerability allows room for a real connection allows room for value for love to flow between us it's powerful

yeah and that love can flow between any two people anywhere in the world at any time if they allow it the problem is most of us don't allow it what gets in the way of allowing it?

defensiveness defensive mechanisms fear it's like fear it's like God if I become vulnerable to you and I say God I really need you you might say The problem is most of us don't allow it. What gets in the way of allowing it? Defensiveness. Defensive mechanisms, yeah. It's like fear. It's like, God, if I become vulnerable to you and I say, God, I really need you, you might say, oh, piss off. Fear of rejection. Yeah, yeah. Whoa, you just said piss off. Ouch.

I put myself out there and he said piss off. That hurts. We've got to risk being hurt to make a connection. So if you could go back in time and whisper something in your own ear to when you took over at Chipotle, what would it be? It's going to work. Okay. i believed it would work anyway though and when i say it would work i mean this style of leadership that i'm alluding to here right which there's a lot to it it's all in my book but you could have used some extra reassurance i mean it would have been i mean there were people who doubted it at the beginning a lot and those doubts faded quickly as it began

to work really really really, really well. But I think if I had some gray-bearded godly figure who could somehow say on my shoulder, my son, excellent, this will work. Yeah, maybe my blood pressure would have gone down 10 points. That wouldn't have been the worst thing in the world. Monte, it's been a blast, man. You learned a lot. Any closing thoughts where people can find out more about you? Well, my website is loveisfree.com. I got a book coming out June 6th called No One is a Stranger.

The point of that book is really, it's more the soft, gooey, philosophical underpinnings of why I led the way I did at Chipotle. So I wrote Love is Free, Guac is Extra. That's about the leadership and exactly how to do it, sort of. And then this book is sort of like how I think and how I think about things like love and God and truth and authenticity and ego and those things. And so, yeah, it was really fun to write the second book. And so maybe people, hopefully people will enjoy that. And yeah, you know, it's been a pleasure

being here with you guys and I appreciate your interest. Absolutely. I'll definitely check that book out. Thanks for tuning in guys, Digital Social Hour. I'll see you next time.