Digital Social Hour - Meet the $1B Copywriting Man | Stefan Georgi Digital Social Hour #96

Episode Date: September 6, 2023

On this episode of the Digital Social Hour, we sit down with copywriting legend Stefan Georgi and talk about how he generated over $1B from copywriting. BUSINESS INQUIRIES: [e-mail] APPLY TO BE ON THE POD: https://forms.gle/qXvENTeurx7Xn8Ci9 SPONSORS: HelloFresh: https://www.hellofresh.com/50dsh AG1: https://www.drinkAG1.com/DSH Hostage Tape: https://hostagetape.com/DSH --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/digitalsocialhour/support Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

And then cold emails, like what's the strategy there? Because I send them out daily. I'd love to be able to get more responses. First off, the subject line, you know, getting curiosity, getting them interested enough to open and look at the body. So it's like an advertisement for the email. That's all a subject line is, is an advertisement for the email. So like given that, like what really cuts through,

like, you know, humor often can cut through, but it's got to be like funny. People try and do really weird, random stuff sometimes. I'm trying to think of what this guy was like some like email about his like wife's panties or things I can't use this weird subject line to get my attention welcome to the digital social hour i'm your host sean kelly i'm here with my co-host wayne lewis what up what up and our guest today stefan georgie what's up guys fine how you doing man doing well how are you pretty good man copywriting king copywriting king. Copywriting king. Yeah. Over a billion dollars in copywriting. Sheesh.

Let's dive into how that happened. Yeah. I mean, well, I guess it starts in Vegas, right? So, my dad passed away in 2011 and I went to Vegas a little bit after that to blow off steam. And I met a girl at a poker table. She was a copywriter. I didn't know anything about copywriting, but we ended up dating. And then I took a job in South Florida. I was making like $200 a day. I had to come home from, you know, it was an outside sales job. So I was driving around in traffic, all that. And, you know, she was like in her underwear drinking a beer and she made like 1200 bucks in the same day. And so I was like, I want to try that out. Like, what is, what is copywriting? You know, I copywriting? I knew that she wrote ads, kind of, but I didn't really know what it meant. So I basically wrote an ad. My first piece of copy ever was an ad for somebody to hire me as a copywriter.

And I think I charged $147 basically to write an ad for somebody. And I put it up, and I woke up the next morning and I had $296, $298 in my PayPal. What website? It was on a website called Warrior Forum, ad for somebody um and i put it up and i woke up the next morning i had like 200 and whatever it was 96 298 dollars in my paypal what was it it was on a website called warrior forum which i think is still kind of around uh but it was like a lot of like honestly it's funny it's like people making like little sass products but they weren't valued like from an enterprise level it was sort of you know facebook like ad scraper like you know this tool that goes through and scrapes all the ads

and a lot of kind of like diy stuff before facebook had those tools and a lot of stuff like that so people needed um they'd create these products they'd hire a copywriter to write the ad that they put on the forum and then other people would buy it and if they made like a million dollars on launch i'd be like a really big deal for them most of the time but it was great for somebody just starting out for sure and so that's how i dove in and uh that was like 2012 i guess and then i sort of i mean you know i can i can i don't go too deep or too long on the story but you know i just sort of went on upwork right at the time i was elance and started getting clients there and i would sort of do whatever so people might be like uh

i mean i did like research i wrote people's college papers i did like anything you know whatever it was um the only fans wasn't around at the time so i couldn't show i had to figure something out and uh but i kept going back to copywriting got hired by this company out of romania that was like doing informational products so like ebooks guides on stuff like everything from alternative health to like investing like I wrote like a like a Bitcoin like a guide and sort of like how to make money Bitcoin thing in 2014 which by the way never published and then I've been looking back at that in hindsight like that was you know like I probably should have followed that yeah she was wrote an article on how to

make money from Bitcoin in 2014 yeah so my wife was like by 2013 she was into bitcoin it was like 20 bucks right yeah like she was using it to play online poker basically and so and i'm like this is you know like everyone in my house is kind of dumb whatever but then you know it was starting to get more momentum and i had another friend who was into it so i basically pitched the publisher like hey let's do a guide on how to trade bitcoin and it was like there was no like coinbase or things like that at the time right so um it was a much more technical so like create like a guide and then wrote like a you know sales letter like an ad for hey you could make money by buying bitcoin yeah but it was so early i guess that like we just they never ended up publishing

it and i didn't really push for it but um but it was cool basically with that that role of these guys is like their entire thing was like we have the team we can create like you know informational products books guides for really whatever topic so they're like you just come to us with ideas and then we'll make the product you just write the advertisements for it so like everything from like sports betting to like health stuff to law of attraction stuff to like self-defense uh really any kind of niche or category like seeing like how to make your own alternative energy like engines like just all kinds of weird and um so it's kind of neat because i really got like a wide breadth of experience i guess and uh they ended up doing 100 million their first year

uh and then based on that copy and had a lot of success after that and well yeah I just sort of kept going I couldn't you know that was up to about 2014 2015 but yeah and then from there you left on your own and started doing jobs on your own it yeah yeah exactly I started some my own companies like I started a supplement company that that did pretty well and partners and companies and do client stuff did some agency work and now with the emergence of AI do you see that disrupting the copywriting industry massively oh yeah definitely definitely nervous at all I'm not nervous because I embraced it really fast so so you're using it right now oh yeah I mean we started like we started

new agency like six months ago that sorry like done multi-million like several million dollars and like like it's purely like AI like we're doing short form long form copy we just jumped right on it immediately and so we're in like a leadership position where then we're helping other like copywriters and marketers and stuff um but it's really interesting because there's still a lot of people who who like think it's a fad or who don't understand it it's very weird to see the older people are yeah older even younger too i have somebody told me ai you're like you're panicking over ai told me i was panicking which i wasn't i was just enlightening them told me that you're worried about something that's gonna happen 10

years from now or like some 50 years from now i'm like no it took them 50 years to get to this point yeah facts it's already happening for sure It's already happening, for sure. Yeah, it's happening now, for sure. Yeah, some people think it's a fad because I guess what happened with Web3, but I think AI is here to stay. I mean, it definitely is. It's just, it's a good tool, right? And right now, it's like for copywriters, marketers, whatever,

it's like the perfect compliment to what you do. It's like it can do a lot of heavy lifting for you. You still need to have ideas. You still need to kind of understand how to piece things together and you're more of like a strategist and it's more of an executor and that's really powerful and also knowing how to talk to it right like we have prompts that we use that are like 2 000 words long like i mean extremely long prompts where we're basically giving it really detailed sets of directions it's really like you're like a human like the new programming language is like english basically right yeah yeah and so you're basically like a coder now which is great for me because i was never

super mathematically inclined but i'm extremely like verbally inclined right and so this is like i'm like a special place in time i think but but again it's about embracing it i see a lot of people who aren't and i i think you know i think it's scary yeah i think it's scary there's disruption for sure yeah you said coding i didn't even think about it ai could affect programmers jobs well no it definitely is no it is affecting uh programmers job but he's saying us inputting the information or what we wanted to actually do is actual code right right it's like html natural language program yeah yeah but it's natural language yeah because the prompting is important yeah absolutely because as soon as you hit you have to write prompt yeah yeah yeah because i'll type a sentence and then it'll come out bad but then i'll type like a paragraph yeah and i got a

whole legal document ready to go exactly so it actually responds better when it's more detail yeah definitely yeah and then for cold emails like what's the strategy there because i send them out daily i'd love to be able to get more responses so when you say cold i mean you have like a list of people who have never heard from you before at all or yeah list of people i want to get on the podcast maybe it's a brand that i want to work with stuff like that i mean i think you know is the same with whether you're selling the podcast or product or anything it's like first off the subject line and like really all the subject line is is like you know getting curiosity getting them interested enough to open and look at the body so it's like an advertisement

for the email that's all subject line is is an advertisement for the email so like given that like what really cuts through like you know humor often can cut through but it's got to be like funny people try and do really weird random stuff sometimes i'm trying to think of what this this guy was like uh some like email about his like wife's panties or something this guy kept trying to use this weird subject line to get my attention and it's like it got my attention but it was like the wrong way you know what i mean i'm like i don't know like you still kind of weird i'm not gonna reply so but it's got to be like funny or it's got to be maybe personal you know what i mean like honestly like something like even just using somebody's name right and

like hey like got a question for you sean or i got a question you know whatever something like that um like something that feels personal because i say maybe once a month i get like duped by one of those where i'm like i'm like i know this is probably just like a bs solicitation but it feels so personal and real that i still open it and it's like oh yeah it's just a solicitation and then um you know in the body copy i think it's sort's like oh yeah it's just a solicitation and then um you know in the body copy i think it's sort of like classic stuff like building rapport connecting like you know showing credibility social proof right for saying like what you're doing with the podcast like you know i don't know you mentioned i think like your the content of this podcast gets seen over

100 million times a month right it's like it's a pretty impressive thing that's like you know making sure you you lead with that and then what's in it for them right because of all copy it's a pretty impressive thing. That's like, you know, making sure you lead with that. And then what's in it for them, right? Because with all copy, it's always like the reader or the prospect is always thinking, what's in it for me? And so the mistake we make a lot of times is like you have the 100 million views per month. That's a great stat. You want to get that in there. But then it's, you know, so, you know, how can this help them, their brand, their platform?

Or maybe in something deep, like what's a good cause? If you look in research, maybe they're passionate about a nonprofit, right? And if like, you know, a lot of famous people, like the angle is all about, you know, you can make money or you can, and they're like, dude, I have a ton of money. I don't care about money. But like a nonprofit or something that's near and dear to their heart. Yeah, it's emotional. It's an attachment.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of emotion, you're really good at bringing emotion into copy which is kind of hard to pull off right yeah because copy is just words how are you able to pull that off man uh i mean i think i'm very empathetic naturally uh you know i try to really i like i used to call like sabine like a i think there's like a like shaman where like they'd be called like skinwalkers right right. Where they, they put on like the,

the pelt of like a wolf and they become the wolf or like whatever it is. And I try to really do that. And like when I'm really writing good copy, I really try to embody that person to the point where if I'm writing as a, you know, angry 60 year old woman, like I, like I feel like,

well, like I almost feel like that or an angry six year old man. I'm like almost like shaking with rage or I'm feeling the emotion. I'm really trying to imagine myself like in that moment. And then I just try to really transfer that into the words that I write. Gotcha. Wow. And what was sort of your first like big breakthrough when you went off where essentially the market for that company was like conservative Christian 50 plus.

Right. And still is their market. They're still around. So doing really well. But we're doing all informational products. And I sort of felt like, well, you know, like I knew that health supplements were a big space and I knew that market now pretty well. So I'm like, what if we just do, you know, supplements for them? Because they're buying all these guides. But if you can give them high quality, you know, supplements, maybe you can help them get better health outcomes or support their health or whatever. But since they're Christian, I'm like, why don't we just do like like biblical supplements? So basically, I did like a line of supplements where the ingredients came were all mentioned in the Bible. So like a biblical blood sugar supplement and um like a biblical weight loss supplement and even like a um like like ed like erectile dysfunction is a big category right

but i'm like why can't it's hard to sell like ed like a lot of ed type of offers are kind of like about you know i don't know if i can cuss it out but yeah they're kind of like crudely marketed let's say so like but i read an article about this pastor in like uh texas whose whole i think it was in texas but his whole thing was bring god back into the bedroom and how like god wanted you know you and your wife to be making love and how that was sort of you know kept the family closer and all this stuff so i was like man i read it like a year before maybe two years before but really just stuck with me so i created this one called um trinity x3 that was like for the father son and holy ghost but it was also for, for her and for both of you.

And so the idea was it was like this biblical like intimacy supplement that could bring husband and wife together. So they were honoring God in the bedroom. And actually I crushed it with that because then it was like, first of all, I didn't have to just sell to men, which, you know, cuts off half the market. Second of all, I gave them permission. We had a pastor guys or a spokesperson as well. So it's coming from him and it it was giving them permission to be sexual

and things like that. And so that one, yeah. So the blood sugar, all of them did pretty good. So I did like a million the first year, but I lost money. I almost kind of quit and gave up or whatever. And then the second year we did like 23 million. So we had a pretty good hockey stick on that.

And was that just you yourself or you had a team? I had a team. I mean, I was the sole owner of it, but I had a team and had to learn a lot of them too. And the margins are good in copy business, right? Yeah, both in supplements and with copy. When you're writing the copy, your margins are super high, obviously. It's just the time, right? The biggest problem copywriters run into is scaling time.

Like I talk about right now, because we have this agency that's doing well, but because I have two partners in that, it's like our margins are 65%, but then I'm splitting with two partners. And so currently it's like, I could do like a quarter of the work, right, like two to three sales letters a month

and make $100,000 to $150,000 a month. I'm doing way more work than that currently. And I'm making like, you know, 30 or 40,000 a month and make 100 to 150 thousand dollars a month i'm doing way more work than that currently and i'm making like you know 30 or 40 000 a month on this agency now i'm doing it because if we keep scaling it and you know the the long-term upside is significantly higher we're incorporating ai we're trying to do all these things where we want to sell that agency in like 18 months for like a big exit but um but yeah copywriting is like time is really your limiter and then but with supplements yeah the margins are pretty good depending on how you know you fire customers but like 30% maybe up to 40% which is pretty good for a physical product very good for you guys not bad at all yeah with copywriting you're trading time for

money though I see what you're saying it's like a limited scale right yeah there's a good trap and then a lot of people who I think this is true for a lot of people who are really skilled like you know technicians so to speak they um like they go to create an agency so this is like my third agency that i'm doing now and after the second one i was like i'm never doing the agency again why i hate the agency model um because it's i mean i don't like dealing with clients sort of it's like a pain you know to have like uh this is a lot of moving parts you know if you're hiring contractors clients get kind of can be annoying all these sorts of things and I just found it to be a lot when I was like I can just go in my cave and write and make a lot of money anyway right um but then with AI it was

like you know what we can do this with a lot of high leverage um where you know we can produce more copy and do it more efficiently and so I came back to it but a lot of high leverage where, you know, we can produce more copy and do it more efficiently. And so I came back to it, but a lot of people, I think, and it's very valuable for people who listen or watch this, right? It's like, they get really good at doing something, but they're tired of fulfilling because of the time thing. I'm like, man, I'm at this, this ceiling. Right. And so then it's always like, well, I like the selling part. I love when people send me the money, that part's great. So they're like, you know, if I could just get other people to do the fulfillment, I can be the sales guy. It'll be great. But I think the selling part I love when people send me the money that part's great so they're like you know if I could just get other people to do the fulfillment I can be the sales guy it'll be great but I think the mistake people

make is like they don't understand that an agency really is running a business right so suddenly it's like hiring it's like you know managing those employees or contractors you know there's like the accounting stuff you've also got to like work on the client satisfaction there's just a lot of steps and I think people become overwhelmed the quality of the work slips. They actually end up making less money because they're redoing. They don't really know how to manage,

so they redo the work, right? And this is true whether it's copy, or media buying, or photography, or whatever it is, right? They end up redoing a lot of it, and then they're actually making less per hour than if they had just never started an agency at all. That's wild. Yeah, I don't like the agency model, to be honest,

even as a customer. Well, I mean, it just depends on your business model. I mean, what works for you is what works. I'm talking about marketing agencies because with Facebook ads, they'll charge you monthly, right? And then a percent of your ad spend. Yeah. The incentives aren't really aligned there. Yeah.

But they're doing most of the work. They're doing most of the work, but they don't care if you are not profitable or if you're or the other way around they don't care they just want to get paid every month but that's cuz most run it off their own template and what they feel like is a formula for them but every you have to cater to every different business I mean every different business has to be catered differently yeah even from ads you know verbiage and yeah just I mean but it depends on how much they care about your business. For sure.

And that's the problem with a lot of them, I think. Like, they care, like, on some, like, high level, but they've got too many things going on. So it's like, you talk to the business owner, and they're like, they care a lot. But then they've just got a bunch of employees or people who don't care. Yeah, who never had a business before, don't know the business, don't care about the business model

and just run a dry template and hopefully you get some sales and return the next month or fulfill the contract and move on to the next. 100%. Let's get a little controversial here. Let's do it.

I saw on your Facebook, you tweeted out that taking Adderall changed your life. Oh, yeah. Why are you such a fan of Adderall? Well, because it changed my life. But, yeah, I mean, I, so when I was here in Vegas in 20, maybe 18, 19. And, you know, so I lived here for like seven years in Vegas.

And I got like a seasonal depression, right? So it was like sort of getting dark earlier. I'm feeling depressed. I'm like drinking more. I'm like moody. And, you know, I went to go see like a therapist or so like it was like sort of getting dark earlier i'm feeling depressed i'm like drinking more i'm like moody and you know i went to go see like a therapist or whatever about it and so we're talking and he's kind of like all right well like what's your schedule like during like the the winter and i'm like you know i just go to my office i go home it's like dark uh i'm like kind of depressed i don't want to do anything i guess i just drink whatever he's like all right like what do you do during the summer i'm like well of depressed. I don't want to do anything. I just drink. He's like, all right, like, what do you do during the summer?

I'm like, well, after work, I might go play golf, go to dinner. I'm like way more active. He's like, okay, so you're way more active, you know, during the summer and you're not depressed. I'm like, yeah. And he's like, you're not active during the winter and you are depressed. I'm like, yeah. And he's like, all right. He's like, well, you know, basically the idea was that there was less, I was more, the inactivity of just sitting in there and not having anything to do.

I was getting bored because of the hyperactivity of adhd um and then he was like well have you ever been diagnosed with that before and i'm like well yeah and he's like what happened last time so i've been like 2013 14 and i'm like well you know i uh i became a millionaire for the first time in my life started these multiple businesses um you know he's like did you have seasonal depression i'm like no and he's like uh what and then what i'm like well then i stopped taking it he's like okay like well maybe you should get back on your your medication you know yeah that kind of makes sense like um because i've taken modafinil previously so i got back on adderall and i just noticed that my uh the mood swings went away uh i was more attentive with like my family because i have a my daughter's five now

she was a lot younger that That was a big thing. He was really big. I think so many people would take Adderall because they think about work. They took it in college or when they were working on some project. And so that's how... But really, you should take it... If you have true ADD or ADHD, you should take it daily. Because it's not just about being productive with work.

It's about being present with your family. And so when I'm not on it it's like I you know if I have this conversation and my daughter's yelling over here and saying it's going over here I'm like a hot mess right everything yeah and I can't it's like it's like a sensory overload well so yeah just became more present more focused going out like having like dinners like at a loud restaurant it's like I'd go to the bathroom just to like have a minute to like be like in silence like without fail i would just go to the bathroom so that i could i need i almost need like peace because i had like my sensory component to

like calm down because i was like overstimulated like a loud restaurant right or a big table a big group of people but like all that stuff went away i drank less because i wasn't having as much social anxiety because i could actually focus and have conversations i actually stopped drinking entirely maybe five months ago yeah same here he doesn't drink at all yeah so it just made a huge difference i mean and and yeah productivity too and all that wow but you you don't think there's a way to treat it naturally or do you think that's the only way no like his um adhd he can microdose on adhd i actually started microdosing a little while back like not all the, but I have like little 0.1 grams or whatever. It helps with that.

That's a microdose, yeah. Yeah. So, which has been cool. I mean, for me, it's almost like, yeah, it does help a little bit. But I think you can do it naturally. But I personally, like, I take a pretty conservative dose of Adderall. I try to vary it so that I do take it every day. But, like, I'm prescribed up to 30 milligrams the total for the day which you take less than that most of the time

yeah and and the most you can get prescribed is i think 120 or 140 or something crazy like that so it's small i don't know that's a crazy amount that sounds nice yeah and i was like the whole time i started at 20 i'm up to 30 which i but, I don't take the full amount basically ever. Yeah, so your body's not dependent on it. Right. Yeah, yeah. Like yesterday, for example, I took like my full morning dosage, and I took like basically like a quarter of a quarter in the afternoon.

So I took like maybe like 17 milligrams yesterday, you know, because it's like, again, I don't want to be dependent and build that tolerance, you know. So for me, it's like I can sleep on it. I go to bed like 10 o'clock. I sleep like eight hours most nights. Is there a side effect to it i don't really have one honestly oh there's no burnout or anything i don't think so i think it happens when people i think most people like don't take it regularly then they take like you know 30 milligrams which

for me is why i won't take it all at once but they take like like 30 milligrams at once then they feel like they're on crack for like a day or two and then they're like i don't know how you can take that every day man it's like because i don't feel that way is it like a rush or something i've never your focus you're locked in you're locked in so why does it feel like you're on crack if you're focused i mean it's strong it's a strong if i like when i went back on it like in 2019 or whatever it was i basically told myself like i know i might feel cracked out but i'm gonna give it a week and just see because the first couple of days i did feel a little bit weird but then your body like to give it a week and just see. Because the first couple of days, I did feel a little bit weird. But then your body acclimates to it pretty quickly.

And then you don't feel weird after that. But a lot of people just take it sporadically and they take way too much of a dosage. So they feel like they're overdosing on meth or some shit. You know what I mean? So I think that's a huge part of it. So what's next for you? You made a ton of money. You got kids.

What's the next part of it. So what's next for you? You made a ton of money, got kids. What's the next goal? Yeah, I mean, I think the agency side of it, like I really want to do with AI. I think there's just so much opportunity here right now. So I really want to sell the agency for nine figures, which is it's not easy to sell an agency for that much. But I think like we've got a lot of like internal SaaS things that we're developing.

Like we've got a lot of interesting processes. that we're developing. We've got a lot of interesting processes. So I think that's one of the plays. And besides that, I think just keep teaching, sharing, investing. I write a book soon with the help of AI. That'd be sick. Yeah. Now with agencies, the valuation, it's a multiple of revenue, right? Yeah, but if you can position it like SaaS.

With the SaaS. So then you'll get a 10 to 20x. That's the hope there, yeah. the idea is almost like a strategic buyer because it's like okay we're like we can just solve copy like we basically want to just solve copywriting right and there's stuff like like if you like jasper and things like that but like they don't really like they solve it for like a small business owner who has a flower shop and just wants to send like okay emails yeah they solve it for that person but they don't solve it for anyone who really wants to like generate sales and drive revenue like it's really not you know and so we're there's obviously the thought of like we could just build

the sass that competes with them and i wanted to do that my partners were a little more wary so he might still go that route but i think um even if we just do it internally at the agency so if someone you know there's companies that buy all these agencies, right? They roll up agencies. So it's like if they can take all of our processes and proprietary stuff and deploy that across 200 agencies and we're all doing media buying and suddenly we solve ads for 200 agencies. You guys improve the revenue and make their companies run way more efficient. Exactly, yeah.

You're basically selling your business model. Exactly. Not the actual agency itself. Copy is a huge issue too most people can't write at all at all to be honest like I didn't do well in English class growing up plus you know with well I'm dyslexic so yeah I hate anything when it comes to overriding or texting bro I was that kid that literally got caught my teacher pulled me to side and she said I know you plagiarized uh you got you're you got detention

literally like she called me out and now there's chat gpt and everyone's doing yeah i think ai is perfect yeah i mean that's a solid business model especially when it comes to getting to you know uh acquired by someone yeah for sure it's hot any closing comments man that was great appreciate that um you know one more controversial thing i've been thinking about recently is that like you know this is something really funny but I was in a room of entrepreneurs recently and I was like hey how many of you were like ever right and like like half the room raised their hand like I'm not I don't like you know breaking bad but like you sold on high school whatever it was right and like the more I thought about

that the more I'm like we shouldn't shame people who are dealers because I'm like, you know what? That's like the first entrepreneurial foray for a lot of people. What were they doing? They were learning like all these sort of like sales skills, like managing inventory, customer service. And that's kind of funny. But I was like, you know what? Like profit margin. Yeah. Profit margin.

Like all that kind of quality of product. Right. Your business model, where you're standing, where you're at, who's your customer's your customer understanding your customer yeah so many things about it yeah like and again i remember one time i had like i got like a pound of like supposed to be good it was a terrible and i had a really hard time selling it so you were like okay well we got quality assurance like know the product before you buy like there's so many lessons that you learn and so um i have another friend who kind of says be criminal and i'm not saying be criminal like go break like you know rob people and but like just like having that mentality of like take those lessons that you've learned in

life and even things that maybe like some people look at as being like they're afraid of or ashamed of from their past and like really like think about all the good that came from that and don't be so afraid to sort of almost like congratulate yourself and for what you've you know how that helped you get to the next level absolutely there's a lot of entrepreneurs that were dealers a lot um majority of them i would say more than 50 i'd say yeah yeah i saw some kind of form or did something illegal at some point for sure entrepreneurs is just what they are they're willing to take a little risk you know oh that's entrepreneur is a nice way of saying risk taker absolutely yeah way in anything. Thank you guys for watching. Thanks for tuning in

Digital Social Hour. See you guys next time. Peace.