Digital Social Hour - The $10K Mistake Marketers Repeat Every Month | Frank Anderson DSH #994

Episode Date: December 19, 2024

Unlock the secrets to entrepreneurial success through trauma healing! 🔓💼 Dr. Frank Anderson shares his powerful journey from childhood trauma to becoming a leading trauma expert. Discover how healing can transform your life and business! 🌟 In this eye-opening episode, Sean Kelly and Dr. Anderson dive deep into: • The surprising link between trauma healing and looking younger 😲 • How childhood experiences shape our adult relationships 💔 • The impact of conversion therapy and coming out later in life 🏳️‍🌈 • Breaking the cycle of generational trauma 🔄 • The hidden traumas in wealth and success 💰 Don't miss out on these game-changing insights that could revolutionize your personal and professional life! 🚀 Watch now and join the conversation on trauma, healing, and entrepreneurship. Ready to transform your life? Hit subscribe and turn on notifications for more inspiring stories and expert advice on the Digital Social Hour with Sean Kelly! 🔔 #DigitalSocialHour #TraumaHealing #EntrepreneurialSuccess #emailmarketing #leadgeneration #smsmarketing #socialmediamarketing #howtopromoteyourmusic #selfimprovement #mentalhealthadvocate #mentalhealthawareness #mindfulness #mentalhealth CHAPTERS: 00:00 - Intro 00:32 - How Trauma Affects Us 02:14 - Dr. Frank's Trauma History 08:20 - Rekindling with Your Dad 11:00 - Intergenerational Trauma 17:28 - Wealth and Trauma 20:19 - Imperfect Parenting 21:25 - Gender and Sexual Orientation 27:30 - Religious Trauma 31:20 - Common Types of Trauma 32:33 - Cultural Trauma 36:47 - Universal Experience of Trauma 38:34 - Extremes in Trauma Perspectives 39:35 - Finding Dr. Frank APPLY TO BE ON THE PODCAST: https://www.digitalsocialhour.com/application BUSINESS INQUIRIES/SPONSORS: [e-mail] GUEST: Frank Anderson https://www.instagram.com/frank_andersonmd https://linktr.ee/frank_andersonmd SPONSORS: BetterHelp: https://www.betterhelp.com/DSH LISTEN ON: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/digital-social-hour/id1676846015 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5Jn7LXarRlI8Hc0GtTn759 Sean Kelly Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seanmikekelly/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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because the energy of trauma has a negative effect on us. And the more I release it, the younger I think I feel and look. I can see that, because there's some old angle where you can see the trauma on their body. It is, yeah. Like the wrinkles, like the damage. Yeah. So that's cool. All right, guys, we're going to talk traumas today.

We've got Dr. Frank Anderson. Thanks for coming on, man. It's good to be here Thank you for having me. Yeah important topic yeah, you know, we're just talking about public school and all the trauma kids are doing what and Is that a big reason about why you're teaching it? It's part of the reason just because so many kids I mean there's a mental health crisis for teenagers right now in a big way. It's interesting. This kind of the younger population

in a big way. It's interesting, this kind of the younger population has way too much pressure and they overly identify with trauma. So it's a crazy combination for them interestingly enough. Too much burden, too much power and too much overwhelm. So it's not really the reason I'm in the trauma. I've been doing it my whole life, really since 1992, but it's because of my own trauma history, honestly. Got it. Truth be told, you don't spend your life in trauma treatment unless you have a trauma history. I'm sorry about that.

Yeah, right now the traumas are different, more evolved because of social media, but you were dealing with a different type in 92, right? High percent. So what was that trauma like and what was the process to overcome that? Yeah, well, here I am 61 years old, so it's been a life long journey.

I look all right, brother. I was 61. Thank you. I would never guess that. Isn't that, I'm super lucky. I actually think it's all the healing that I've done, honestly, makes me look younger. I probably look younger now than I did 10 or 20 years ago.

Holy crap. It's true. It's people are like, what do you use for skincare? I'm like, it's not skincare, it's healing because the energy of trauma has a negative effect on us. And the more I release it, the younger I think I feel and look. I can see that, cause there's some old angle

where you could see the trauma on their body. Yes, you. Like the wrinkles, like the damage. Yeah. So that's cool. So for me, it started, and I just wrote this memoir recently called To Be Loved. It's been like my life's journey to be loved, but I had, and this is a long time ago,

so this is in the sixties, got caught playing with a Barbie doll in my cousin's basement. And back then that was a no no. Really? 100%. So my parents, the book starts, I said, you're not going to school today, Frankie. I'm like, why? We're going to the hospital. But why? I wasn't sick. There was nothing really wrong with me that I knew.

I went for psych testing and I was in conversion therapy, a form of conversion therapy for six years. In the 60s? Yeah. They have that back on? 100%. They didn't send me away to a camp, but I was weekly therapy and kind of programmed to be like a normal boy. You have to play sports, You have to be play baseball. You have to go fishing. You have to do hunting here. Shoot this gun like all this kind of stuff. My parents like regret it now looking

back. But back then being gay was a disorder. Right? It was. It wasn't until like the 80s that it got taken out of the like the D to 7 and stuff like that. So from a very early age, I was told you are wrong. There's something wrong with you. You're a problem and you need to change. So I held that for most of my life. In addition to that, my dad was pretty abusive physically and verbally. So I grew up in an environment where it was kind of a shit shell, honestly, to tell you the truth, for a very long time. And with this programming of like, this is how you have to be. I ended up marrying

a woman and went to medical school, I was constantly striving to be smart to get my father's love. Like that was my whole, like, purpose in life. Be smart, be smart, be smart. You know, wow. Got into into Harvard and then as a psychiatrist, which is I became a psychiatrist. Then I was like, all right, start looking at yourself, like what's up here? You know, that they encourage you to go into therapy when you're in your training to become a

psychiatrist. And then I started unpacking my trauma history. Wow. So you had no idea how to. Not really. No, there was a family member who had mental illness when I was in college. It freaked me out. history. Wow. So you had no idea how to write it, right? Not really. No. There was a family member who had mental illness when I was in college. It freaked me out.

Like they were, there's spiders on my face. They were getting psychotic. They were bipolar, right? And that was like hugely impactful for me. At the time, I didn't know like it impacted me because it tapped into like my own pain. I was more like focused on their pain. I gotta help them. I gotta help them.

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best self. The holidays are a tricky time of the year for a lot of people. And I like to stay cozy and warm at home with my favorite movies and a warm blanket and also some better help with a lot of time to to reflect during the winter months, therapy is a great way to embrace what's on our mind and find comfort that doesn't leave us even as the holidays fade away. Even if you've never tried therapy or always wondered about its effects, BetterHelp's online therapy option can be a helpful tool to learn about positive coping mechanisms

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and comfort this December with better help. Visit better help com slash dsh today to get 10% off your first month. That's better help. H e l p.com slash dsh. Me, then it is about helping others. It's also about helping others. Don't get me wrong. Right. But, um, yeah, that's been my journey of helping people heal from trauma all different kinds.

Wow. Yeah. You had a few there. You had the trauma of being gay and then the parental trauma. Yeah. Those are two really difficult ones. And then the combination, my mom, and this happens typically, if you've got an abusive parent in some way,

you have a passive parent. So my mom was very passive and kind of tolerated everything. She needed the family to stay together because she wasn't strong enough to leave him. So it was, it is what it is. I'm glad I'm here now, I can tell you that. I've done a lot of work healing and I've helped a lot of people here. That's amazing. Yeah, I can tell you that. I've done a lot of work healing and I've helped a lot of people here.

That's amazing, right? Yeah, we'll dive into that. Yeah, I remember when I was in high school, I'm catching the tail end of this, but kids coming out as day was a really big deal. Now I feel like it's a little better, right? It's better, you know what's interesting? It's a lot better.

Culture and society are more open to that, but teen suicide for gay kids is still rampant. Really? It's a lot better. Culture and society are more open to that. But teen suicide for gay kids is still rampant. It's still crazy. So yeah, it's better in some ways. And in other ways, it's still difficult, which bothers me that it's still such an issue. Because culture and society are better with it. But going through the experience of being wrong,

knowing you're wrong and not fitting in is still having a huge impact on me. Right. Yeah, there's a lot of shame and guilt. My fiance's best friends, both of them are gay, and they didn't come out until after college because I think they're scared of their classmates, their friends and parents. Yeah. Even now, even now, it's not, you know, it was much worse back then.

Much worse back then. Yeah. It's a shame, but I hope we can get to a good spot with it. Yeah, yeah. I feel good. Here's where I'm at now. I'm like, look, this is who I am. I got the trauma history, I'm gay.

If you have a problem with it, it's your problem. It's not my problem because I'm okay with who I am now. And that took me a long time to be there, honestly. 61 years. That's exactly right. So rekindling with your dad was a process. Ah, oh my goodness. And you know, I did rekindle with him,

which I feel really grateful for. Most of my life I hated him. Wow. Most of my life I hated him. There was a period of time when I was at my residency program and I started uncovering my trauma. I tried to talk to my parents about it. They didn't want to hear anything. That's not true. How dare you say something like that?

What's your problem? Move on. They were full of denial at the time. And I stopped talking to them for seven years. Whoa. Seven years, no contact with my parents. And I didn't expect it to be seven years, honestly. It turned into seven years partly because I wasn't strong enough to stand up to them

and they weren't open to listening to anything I had to say. So it was kind of a, I wasn't expecting that, you know. And then when I did come out, was in kind of an abusive relationship with a guy first, I could tell you about that. And you got a lot of trouble. I was like, welcome to my world, right? You're like, you don't grow up in a traumatic family without recreating your trauma to some degree.

Because subconsciously you're seeking it. 100%. You're seeking it to heal it. We're looking for a better version, right? My wife, I told you, the woman on there married, oh my God, she was passive like my mother and I was controlling like bother. I'm like, well this sucks. I'm repeating the panning of my parents. Because they say you're attracted to people like your mother.

You're attracted, well and you're attracted to what you know. And you're trying to heal your pain, but you seek people who have similar wounds, unconsciously. With Uber Reserve, good things come to those who plan ahead. Family vacay? Reserve your ride as soon as you book your flights. To all the planners, now you can reserve your Uber ride up to 90 days in advance. See Uber app for details.

Attraction is actually seeking somebody who has similar pain as us. Wow. Which is crazy. Yeah, that's crazy. I don't make it that way, but that is the way it is because we're trying to heal. We're trying to heal. So I did the female version.

I married my mother. I became my father. I'm like, that didn't work. And so then when I came out, the first relationship, surprise, surprise, I'm with this guy, totally abusive and controlling, and I was passive like my mother. I'm like, shit, like nothing's working, neither side is working for me, right?

This is not working, right? And then after I did enough healing, after I stopped repeating, right, I met this man who I'm married to now, 25 years. Nice. And he was kind and gentle and different than anything I had ever known, you know, but it does take, it does take working through your stuff. Otherwise we're just kind of, we tend to repeat it.

Right. That's powerful the way you worded that because some people are healing while they're in relationships, but you healed before. Yeah. You, some people, healing while they're in relationships, but you healed before. Yeah, some people, you're lucky if you pick somebody who you can have a healing relationship with, because relationships, of course, can be super healing.

But oftentimes, if you have trauma that you haven't worked on, you end up repeating it in somewhere. So yeah, my memory relationship with my husband now is super healing. Amazing. Best relationship I've been in somewhere. Right. So, yeah, my memory relationship with my husband now is super healing. Amazing. Best relationship I've been in for sure. Yeah, because divorce rates are at all-time highs. That's why they're at all-time highs,

is because we pick people who are similar to our histories, trying to work out our shit look. Right, and everyone's got some trauma. Oh, I'm so glad you say that, because that's my belief, you know. There's this whole, like, there's a certain segment of the population that's like, not me, I'm tough glad you say that because that's my belief, you know. There's this whole like there's a certain segment of the population that's like not me. I'm tough and strong. I don't have trauma. Not that's that's for people in, you know, vets or something like that. Right.

And then there's this younger population who's like, oh, my goodness, I sneezed. It's traumatic. I can't do it. You know what I mean? Right. There's this like this Gen Z population is so like, sensitive, and they are traumatized in some ways. So there's a middle ground. I think everybody personally has overwhelming life experience. I don't know any person who hasn't had some difficulty in somewhere. It's impossible. Isn't it? Life is designed to be up and down. Isn't it?

And I think here's what I say about it. It's like we have our every moment, you can repress it, you can repeat it, or you can repair it. And you know, I kind of think like we have a choice. And you know, I was in repeat mode. But you see, I was until I mode. But you see, right? I was until I stopped repeating it and started to repent. So many people are attracted to these toxic relationships and they don't know why.

They just keep going to the next guy or the next girl. They don't know what's related to their upbringing. Yeah. But these days there's tests that can show you trauma is within you. I got a brain scan. Donna is Dr. Aiman. Did you work with? I know Dr. Aiman.

He's a great guy. So I didn't even know I had trauma, and I found it, and I was like connecting the DOS, and I think mine is abandonment. Yes. I'm working on that right now. That's correct. I urge people that think they don't have any traumas to at least get a test done and see.

100%, 100%, that's great. And the abandonment stuff, like that's often really early, and so you don't even have conscious awareness. It can happen at a really young age, you're like what are you talking about? So it's good to have that awareness. It's great that you're doing that work. You may be better off and not wait till 60 like I am right? Yeah, I've caught up the pride of our early. Everything these days, health. I think people wait too long to address certain issues mom. I agree. I totally agree

Yeah, cuz if you're the longer you wait, I'll say the worse 100% you keep repeating it and and this is another piece I'll say is Transgenerational trauma because if you don't do your work and you get in a toxic relationship and you have kids you pass it down, right? You pass it down. Yeah, there's this follow video Instagram right now of this 12 year old basketball player stepping on another player's head and the top comments are all like oh I wonder how he's parented. 100%. You know what I mean? 100%. Because it comes down. You don't do that just randomly. No. Yeah. Anger's a big uh I feel like anger is passed down. 100% for parents. You think about anger, if it's done appropriately,

it's a healthy boundary. Like, no, this is no good for me. No, I don't want to do that. But most anger is about attacking and hurting. And so that's the cycle that gets perpetuated. Right, and I think the kid goes one of two ways. They either shut down completely, which happened to me. My mom was, you know, strict Asian household

education support earn. And then my dad was off, so ran away from every problem. So I kind of went down that road. Yeah. Yeah, we'd go hyper or hypo. Like from a neurophysiologic point of view, you could get anxious, overwhelmed, panic, freak out, or shut down, disconnect, dissociate. Like those are our two main kind of adaptations or responses

to overwhelming experiences. Yeah, yeah, it was very hard for me to have difficult conversations, so I would just shut down this and I would suppress my emotions. Did you suppress your emotions going up? I Totally suppressed my emotions For sure, I did not know what the hell I felt I was so just I married a woman Like how disconnected can I be? You know what I mean? So I was very disconnected But I was also a fighter. I had this thing in me, like I have one brother and two sisters. We were always at the dinner table and I sat next to him.

My dad was at the head of the table, I sat next to him. And I had this like, I have to take care of my siblings. So I would speak up, I would say shit. Were you the oldest? I was the oldest. Got it. Right? So I felt that responsibility. So I didn't just only shut down, I also fought.

I had a part of me that fought and a part of me that shut down. Right? And so I would get the cracks when I would say something that was against him and it kind of worked. So I did both. Yeah, there's challenges with each child, right? The oldest, the youngest, and the middle sometimes, I guess, neglected. It's interesting.

Yeah. Yeah. And parents say they don't have favorites, but they do. Kids feel it. You feel it. I have two kids right now. And it's interesting. I don't feel like I have two kids right now and it's interesting. I don't feel like I have a favorite,

but boy it's so much easier to get along with one than the other. Because we're more similar, you know what I mean? And we have more in common. And so it's harder for me, but I love him differently, but I bet my younger will say, well you like Logan better than you like me. Do you know what I mean? Because it's just an easier relationship for them. I feel that that's how my dad was with my other two brothers

Right. Yeah, he got along with them could understand the more interest I was kind of like that wild card play you didn't fit in in a way that was easy for him No, cuz those brothers were from a different mother. So they were close and then I was an only child and Yeah, lonely life growing on that. That's right. Yeah, it was tough. And each, even if you are born into money, this is what I'm finding out with studies. There's still trauma.

Sometimes more are in a different way. Cause you know, I've worked with, I work with many people who have the means and there's a way that the money will fix things and you don't have to be there emotionally you can provide. Yeah. Right? So there's a way that offering things and stuff is this like supplement for actual love and connection.

Right. They think they could buy their way out of... Yeah. Like I live in Boston as well as living here in LA and we live in kind of a wealthy suburb, but just parents are like, here's my credit card, take care of my kid. Yeah. It's kind of, it's pathetic.

You know, it's hard to, why kids, why kids are in such a crisis. It really is the deal, not for every parent. I don't want to say that, but it does happen, you know, and money, money is like this commodity in this exchange for love. Right, yeah, that nurturing component's super important. How's your parent?

Yeah, you're probably so aware of all this as a parent, so. Well, I am, you know, I do it for a living, I'm aware of it as a parent, and I will tell you, I also made mistakes for sure. I just did a podcast episode with my oldest son on transgenerational trauma. It was amazing. And he's telling me of the ways that I failed.

And I was like, whoa. Which was so good. He was honest with you? That honest with me. We've worked through a lot of stuff together. Yeah, there was this striving for me to be successful, to get my father's love, Yeah, there was this striving for me to be successful, to get my father's love, that caused my son to feel neglected.

Get that? Oh yeah, you were working so hard. I was working so hard for his love, to some degree, I was neglecting my own kid, because I was traveling all over the world talking and speaking to get my dad's love Wow, the other thing was that my youngest son is Special needs he's on the autism spectrum. And so we were so focused on the younger one

My oldest felt neglected and when he said it to me like he was so mad It's like so mad and like you did this and you did this and you're controlling it. You didn't provide structure. I was like, you're absolutely right. It totally disarmed her. Was that what I'm like, you're right. If that's the way you feel, you're right. And I am sorry.

And he was not expecting that. Although I think that would be right. Right. He was ex I got defensiveness. He- I was like, you're right. I'm going to tell you your experience is wrong. Like, I know better. Right?

So we really had a good- we had a great conversation. We've worked through a lot of stuff. And no parent's perfect. Like, why? We're not supposed to be. It's more problematic when you can't admit what you do wrong, even if you're well intended. Right.

My parents about the conversion therapy will say, we did what we thought was best for you. We wanted you to have a normal life. We didn't know what was going on and I believe that. Like even though it was such a, excuse me, like a fucked up thing, they had good intentions. They didn't know. Right, they wanted the best for you in their eyes.

They're like, oh, Frankie's playing with the Barbie doll. That's a problem, we have to fix it so he'll have a normal life. That was their mentality. I mean, little did they know, it sent me down this trajectory of totally disconnecting from myself and be somebody I wasn't. I was shocked it was around back then because it's making a lot of headlines these days. It's illegal in a lot of states now. Oh it is? Yes. Okay.

Yeah not everywhere but in a lot of places and nowadays they'll send you away for a camp right? Back then it was like every week I went. Yeah. Tuesday night 7 o'clock. Yeah. Tuesday night, seven o'clock for such a year. Yeah, so I saw Elon's interview with Jordan Peterson and he was talking about this. Oh, I didn't catch that. No, I didn't. So one of Elon's kids did convert in therapy and he said that kid is dead to him. Yeah.

Because he believes he was brainwashed. I don't know which gender changed to what, but that kid, he feels like is no longer his kid because of them. So he totally disconnected from his kid. Yeah, his kid made a statement as well of saying he's, you are not valid. Wow, really? Yeah, he feels like, his issue with it is he feels like it was programmed into that kid and it wasn't the kid's decision. You know what I mean? Yeah, see, that's not true. I'm sorry. Say, that's my view, right?

Like why the hell would you choose it? Who's going to choose that? Like did you choose straight one day? I think I'll be straight. Nobody chooses, in my experience. I tried to choose straight. I really tried to choose straight. I really tried to choose straight. You were forcing it.

I was forcing it and I hate sex with women. I could do that. But no, I worked so hard to try to choose straight. I worked so hard. So you're born with it. You're born with it. Yeah, I really believe that. It's kind of who I am.

I can't help it. Nobody creates desire. Desire is... you can't manufacture desire. It just is in you. You can't... what you like, you like. You don't choose it. Yeah. It's a feeling. It's a response. Like really, I wouldn't choose gay. Like it's a harder life in a lot of ways. I love who I am, don't get me wrong, but why would anybody choose it? So like it doesn't even make sense.

So was this gender change movement a thing when you were a kid? Like were people wanting to do that? So there's orientation, sexual orientation and gender. We're talking about two different things. Okay. So sexual orientation is like who do I desire? Right. Gender is who do I identify as? Yeah. Right. So when I was a kid, there wasn't a lot of transgender stuff going on at all. It was

a man. Probably it was there and it was so underground. Gay was an issue, right? Now it's interesting, it's much more prevalent, maybe it's much more recognized, I don't really know. I can't really say because now gay is more in the mainstream, and now maybe there's room for not being thrown in a box. You know, it's interesting, here's the way I think about it. Like, there's all the pronoun stuff. Everybody's like in depression. What's your pronoun? You know, I don't know that anybody feels 100% masculine every single second of the day or 100% female every single second of the day. Like, the men can be soft and receptive and want to be nurtured.

Women could be strong and powerful. These male or female identified traits. Do you know what I mean? No, I agree with that. I think we all have masculine and feminine energies. Right? And so, are the people that really change their genders born on an extreme end of that? That's the way I think about it.

Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I never thought of it that way. Right? Because like, and even like, excuse me for going here, but sexually, whether you're straight or gay, sometimes you feel you want to be kind of dominant, and sometimes you feel you want to be receptive. Right.

You know what I mean? Yeah. So we all have all of that in us. Maybe these people have a more extreme version. Interesting. That's what I sit with. Anybody I've worked with that is transgender, they hate themselves, they hate their bodies.

There's a lot of self-mutilation. They do everything they can to not be who they are and then they eventually it's like this I can't help but this is who I am. Wow. So I know it's very it's a political issue it's so controversial I'm totally aware of it it's like can't we just be who we are like end of story. Yeah it is a very controversial one. It's super controversial. I think it the issue is just at a young age. You know what I mean? They're putting this thought into their head in like first grade.

Well, here's the thing. Parents aren't putting this thought in the kid's head. Don't kid yourself. Aren't you, Suzy, instead of Johnny? Like, no parent is saying that, right? But I agree with you, kids try on different personas as normal development. And if you jump too quickly on that, it could be problematic. So that I agree with.

And when I've worked with transgender youth, there's a team of people, not one person, a psychiatrist saying, okay, go on hormones. You have a team of people, you evaluate them for many years, and some of these hormones have permanent effects if you start taking hormones. So it's not a decision that should be made lately. So I agree with that because some people are like, oh, have you ever heard queer till graduation? Queer till graduation. So there's this phrase now that some of these people in college are like, I'm going to be queer till graduation.

Like, I'll have sex with men and women just to try it out, and then I'll decide later. So we try on a lot of things when we're younger. And gender might be one of them. I'm a tomboy. Does that mean you're really a boy? Does that mean you're a girl that likes to be rough and, you know, rugged?

Let kids really tease it out over time, and I don't think we should jump too quickly, but I don't think we should say it doesn't exist either. Tomboy's are cool, and I was growing up. Right? I remember those days in elementary school. You get a lot of religious trauma cause that's something I'm trying to educate

on the show actually. Yeah. So it's one of the things I've done a lot of work with individual trauma, people growing up in, you know, dysfunctional families. There's also institutional trauma. And institutional trauma is a whole other thing. Like we've all experienced global trauma from the pandemic. Everybody's

been traumatized in that. But yeah, there's more and more awareness of institutional trauma. Whether it's in corporations, you know, people being treated differently, women being paid differently, and all this kind of stuff, you can have traumas in institutions, and religious trauma is a whole other layer of complexity. At the Trauma Center where I work with Besselmander Culk in Boston, we worked with priest abuse many, many years. Well, okay.

So that's actually going on. It's hugely going on. Sure, rumors of it. In the Catholic Church particularly, but not only. And so there's an abuse of power, which is what trauma is anyways, sexual trauma. But when you add the dimension of spirituality or God and whatever it is, it adds a layer of shame.

It adds a layer of I, it adds a layer of, I am so bad and wrong, and the abuse of power is different than I'm an adult. I am a member of God, right? So it adds a layer of complexity for people when they've been abused by somebody, because it's more than abuse of power. It's like using spirituality, right? Abusing religion in a manipulative way, which really messed people up. I confused people. I'll tell you a little bit about my husband in that way. So he grew up in a very conservative, strict, kind of Pentecostal church environment with his family. And when he came out at 18, much younger than me,

totally his parents got rid of him, well, kicked him out of the house, this whole thing. He had a suicide attempt at a very young age. And to this day, he will never step into church, because he had all of this, you know, the devil will, you have the devil in you. He got a lot of trauma from what people in the religious organizations were imposing upon him. And so he'd like, he didn't want us to raise our kids with religion because of the religious trauma

that he experienced. So to be shunned and seen that way by God, it's different than by your parent or by a teacher. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's like they're weaponizing it. 100%. Yeah, I've done some Mormon church survivors

and that one's tough because your whole family has to cut you off after you leave. Well, yeah, it's so interesting that you say that. I just was at this retreat in Hawaii with a bunch of people who were Latter-day Saints. Oh yeah? And I was like, oh shit, I'm going to be accepted in this group. And they're working really hard in that church to try to do things differently. He's really surprised. They were open and receptive to me. They even had it, um, Brigham and Young University, the,

one of the keynote speakers was Gay Kit. Really? Yeah. I was that surprised. They always change. They're, they're trying because you're right. You lose your parents, your family, your aunts, your uncles, your church, your community, your town. It's a huge loss. Yeah. So I think at least from what I can tell, they're trying to make changes, which I'm super happy about.

That's good because their numbers are dwindling man. People are leaving religion by the masses. Yes. Yeah, I think just the first time where the numbers are actually dropping. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. Yep. What other major traumas are you seeing? I'm sure there's a lot of common ones, common themes you see.

What other traumas am I seeing? of common ones, common themes you see. What other traumas am I seeing? I mean, we talked a little bit about what's happening for teenagers, which is really kind of awful. There's a lot of trauma. Let's see what that's think about. The inequity for women and men is really still an issue in a way that doesn't make sense to me. Yeah, women do not get paid the same. Women don't have the same rights.

Women in power are seen as nasty and mean, not powerful and strong. Like, that shouldn't be existing in our world today. Like here now that I'm living in LA, the inequity in Hollywood around female actors get paid versus male actors get paid is kind of ridiculous. I've worked with several people who were abused by the Harvey Weinstein deal. That was a big one. Right? Men are still abusing power. So as much as we would hope that doesn't exist, it still exists. The other trauma I would say is people of cultural minorities. Like I see that all over the place. I think the, you know, Black Lives Matter, brown skinned people, people who grow up who aren't the white straight majority is, is very prevalent in a way that bothers me. And I

think about certain traumas as individual potentially or not individual or not invisible, invisible. Like I can maybe pass as a straight white guy walking down the street, right? Pens, some people say no. Some people say yes. But if you're a person of color, every time you walk outside, you can't pass. You are seen as who you are as different.

You understand? And so the world is dangerous for you, always. You know, when we talk about healing trauma, you want to get people in a safe setting in order to do their trauma work. But when you walk out in your door and you're seen as different, it doesn't, there's not a level of safety that you can actually experience in order to do the deeper work. Right, because they're always on edge.

Always on edge. You can't kind of hide your skin color when you're out into the world. Right, no, that's a good point, because certain communities are super against speaking up about their traumas and stuff. 100%. Because they're just always shielded.

They don't want to open up. That's exactly right. Wow. So we need to break down the barriers somehow. I really feel that. I feel strong. I'm going to talk about this because it's something that I'm feeling really strongly right now, especially in this political craziness that we're in.

I don't even care what side anybody's on. That's not the issue for me. The issue is both sides are actually trying to help. Both sides want to make the world better. But each side focuses on what's bad about the other. Yeah, that's true. A hundred percent.

It's so polarized that we don't acknowledge our own shadows and we push our shadows onto the other side. And I feel like we all have more in common than we are different, but we focus on othering so we don't have to deal with what's bad about us. Well, this is what I hold. And I know it's not a popular view, but it's a view that I want to get out into the world. I'll tell you a story. A neighbor of mine growing up as a kid, clearly a gay guy, my parents were super conservative,

he was super conservative. My dad was sick and dying a couple years ago, he comes over to the house and he's like, I was at the insurrection. He was like all proud of himself and he's like in camo and telling me about Trump and all this kind of stuff, you know, and I was like, okay, and telling me about Trump and all this kind of stuff. You know, and I was like, okay, like we're different, right? And then it was when my second book came out called Transcending Trauma, he starts asking me about my book. What this book about?

It's about my trauma history, it's about growing up in an abusive environment, he knows my dad. He starts telling me about his trauma. He's like, you know what, friend? I grew up, wasn't abused a father too. He used to beat me too. We had six brothers and he would beat me on a regular basis.

He's like, hey, we have more in common than we don't. He's like, and you're trying to help people overcome. You're a better person than me. He's like, can I have a hug? Wow. Right, was a huge person than me. He's like, can I have a hug? Wow. Right, it was a huge moment for me. It's like, here's this guy who supposedly is totally different than me.

And in fact, we have trauma histories in common and we join in our wounding. He takes one approach to dealing with his trauma, I take a different approach. Wow. Yeah, when you boil it down. You see? Do you see what I'm saying? And I really think we focus on what's different instead of what is similar. And like you said earlier, we all have trauma. Can't we focus on that, which is what we have in common? Yep.

Instead of how different we are? Because here's another thing I'll tell you, Sean, which people don't know and I don't think people own enough of. When you've been traumatized, you internalize perpetrator energy. Everybody who is traumatized also absorbs perpetrator energy. So when you're harmed, you have a harmer in you. Wow! And people don't acknowledge that. But it happens all the time. Every time. So, you know, when you're going to other somebody and say they're this, this, and this,

you're not really taking responsibility for the ways you've been mean or violent or hurtful to others in a way of protecting yourself from your own pain. And I think if we all, all of us, it's one of the things I wrote about, I started yelling at my kids at one point, really, 100%. All the therapy I've been through, right, I should know better. Yeah. I started yelling at my kids, I got my ass back in therapy. I'm like, here, I knew I had that perpetrator energy in me. Yeah. And I was like, I am not going to pass this down.

I got myself back into therapy for like a third time. So I think if we can all acknowledge that we've all harmed and we've all been harmed, maybe we join instead of othering. Love that. Accountability is so important. This is my message. I really feel like that's the way we're gonna heal.

The more we're gonna demonize somebody, the more separate we're gonna be. Yeah, at a certain point it goes nowhere. It goes nowhere. Like let's have these debates but let's also not get personal with it. 100%. Yeah let's be objective. Yeah I don't I don't like the current political landscape. It's so obnoxious and again I don't care what's I don't even care what side you're on I think both sides in some way are obnoxious because they're so extreme. Well, they have to be to get used these days.

Right. The God is saying the craziest thing. Isn't it ridiculous? Yeah, so here's the other thing. It's good to be 60 because you don't care what people say so much anymore. So I'm like, I could say this. And if you don't agree with me, that's fine. You don't have to agree.

But I have I want to make the world a better place. I want to heal trauma in the world. And I think if we acknowledge the way we've harmed and the way we've been harmed and we heal it, we're all gonna be better. Well said. Dr. Fang, where can people find you in your books? Yeah, frankandersonmd.com is where people can find me

on Instagram as frank underscore Anderson MD. I'm on all the other handles too. Axe, I'm on LinkedIn, Facebook, so I don't know what those... We'll find it, link it below. Thanks so much, that was awesome. Thanks for watching guys, see you next time.