Digital Social Hour - The $20K Mistake 99% of Retailers Make (Adapt or Die) | James Keyes DSH #1033

Episode Date: December 30, 2024

The $20K mistake 99% of retailers make? 😱 James Keyes, former CEO of 7-Eleven and Blockbuster, reveals all! 🎯 Discover how embracing change = opportunity in retail and beyond. Tune in for jaw-dropping insights on: 🔥 The real Blockbuster/Netflix story you've never heard 🏪 7-Eleven's secret sauce for success 🔮 How AI will transform retail (but not replace humans!) 🦈 Turning a David Letterman roast into a viral marketing win Don't miss out on this game-changing conversation! James shares his unique perspective on leadership, adapting to change, and the power of positivity in business. 🚀 Watch now and subscribe for more insider secrets from industry titans on the Digital Social Hour with Sean Kelly! 🎙️ Join the conversation and level up your business game. 💪 #DigitalSocialHour #SeanKelly #JamesKeyes #RetailInnovation #BusinessLeadership #ChangeEqualsOpportunity #businessautomation #retaildisruption #experientialretail #projectmanagement #retailinnovation CHAPTERS: 00:00 - Intro 00:30 - Your Early Years 06:20 - Blockbuster & Netflix 09:51 - Shift from Physical to Streaming 10:36 - Redbox Innovations 11:40 - Loss Leading Strategies 13:39 - Fresh Daily Deliveries 17:42 - Free Slurpee Day Promotion 24:03 - AI in Retail Transformation 26:10 - Leadership Insights 28:16 - Quoting Yoda Wisdom 31:42 - Managing Ego in Business 34:43 - Where to Find James Online 35:31 - End APPLY TO BE ON THE PODCAST: https://www.digitalsocialhour.com/application BUSINESS INQUIRIES/SPONSORS: [e-mail] GUEST: James Keyes https://www.instagram.com/jkeyesauthor/ LISTEN ON: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/digital-social-hour/id1676846015 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5Jn7LXarRlI8Hc0GtTn759 Sean Kelly Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seanmikekelly/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Kick off an exciting football season with BetMGM, an official sportsbook partner of the National Football League. Yard after yard, down after down, the sportsbook Born in Vegas gives you the chance to take action to the end zone and celebrate every highlight reel play. And as an official sportsbook partner of the NFL, BetMGM is the best place to fuel your football fandom on every game day. With a variety of exciting features, BetMGM offers you plenty of seamless ways to jump straight onto the gridiron and to embrace peak sports action. Ready for another season of gridiron glory? What are you waiting for? Get off the bench, into the huddle, and head for the end zone all season long. Visit betmgm.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older. Ontario only. Please gamble responsibly. Gambling problem? For free assistance call the Connex Ontario Helpline at 1-866-531-2600.

BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. BetMGM, authorized gaming partner of the NBA, has your back all season long from tip off to the final buzzer. You're always taken care of with the sportsbook born in Vegas. That's a feeling you can only get with Ben MGM and no

matter your team, your favorite player or your style, there's something every NBA fan will love about that MGM download the app today and discover why Ben MGM is your basketball home for the season. Raise your game to the next level this year with bet MGM, a sports book worth a slam dunk and authorized gaming partner of the NBA. Bet MGM dot com

for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older to wager. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Think about what Amazon is, it's a catalog company. I mean it goes full circle all the way back to where Sears was. Wow. They just found a better way to do it. And then eventually there'll be a company that can make it even better, right?

Exactly. Change equals opportunity. Sears had they stayed the course, could have been Amazon today. All right, guys. Jim Key Keys here today. Business legend, thanks for coming on. Sean, it's great to be here. Yeah, you've been part of some of the biggest companies in the world. Yeah, I've had a few adventures over the years. Yeah.

Incredible, man. How'd that all get started? I did not take the normal path. I was one of these kids. Literally I didn't know what business meant. I thought business, when I was in high school, I literally thought business was like typing class. And literally, we had no frame of reference in the small town I grew up in. Where'd you grow up?

Grafton, Massachusetts. Never heard of it. So yeah, little tiny town. Yeah, Central Mass. And you get west of Boston about 30, 40 miles. It gets really rural really fast. And so yeah, I just had no frame of reference. And like so many kids, I had no idea what I wanted to be. When I grew up, I thought, I don't know, maybe if I work really hard, maybe I'd be a doctor,

or a lawyer. I didn't know. And ended up almost by mistake in business because I was planning to try to get to law school somehow, some way. I thought yeah that's a career man, they make a lot of money and they wear suits and it looks sharp. I would have made a terrible lawyer, terrible lawyer. But yeah I found the business path. And here's the irony, you're an entrepreneur.

The reason I was successful in business is, I'm an entrepreneur. You don't think of that. You think of corporate entrepreneur as almost an oxymoron. Right. Right? I mean, there are very few people that see themselves as entrepreneurs in a corporate environment because a corporation will beat the entrepreneur

out of most people. Right. It encourages conformity, right? And it discourages stepping out and taking risk that entrepreneurs do. The irony is all corporations need entrepreneurs. And so my career really was propelled by my willingness to step out and take those risks and be an entrepreneur within a corporate

environment and it paid off. It does work. I love that. Yeah well they call them entrepreneurs now right? Yeah that's a fancy name for them. Yeah yeah. Yeah it's definitely an interesting dynamic because as companies grow They kind of lose that entrepreneurial flair that started the company they do and and here's the irony I talk a lot about change and I see change as opportunity I've kind of coined the expression change equals opportunity ironically the acronym CEO, right? Mm-hmm I mean think about that. It is so powerful that every bit of commerce begins and ends with something changes. Someone responds to that change and they get compensated for it, right?

Right. So what happens? Then they get big and they get afraid to keep changing and someone else says, well, I can do it better. And they stimulate another change and then they get compensated for it. And sometimes that company that started with the response then goes away. Right. And that's unnecessary if you can manage that response to change,

proactive, confident response to change in a way that makes you virtually an entrepreneur. Right. And these days you got to change quicker than ever, makes you virtually an entrepreneur right in these days You got to change quicker than ever right constant because of technology and all these advancements If you're not embracing AI now, you're kind of falling behind exactly you want you want I've got a great example I haven't really used I didn't put it in the book but Think about when I grew up. We had something called a Sears catalog here to young to remember Sears I heard of Sears. Yeah, well they Sears a Sears catalog. You're too young to remember Sears catalogs. I heard of Sears. Yeah. Well, Sears started as a catalog.

Okay. Right? So when I was a kid, they didn't have Sears stores all over the place. In fact, in my little rural area, we had a catalog. So I'd flip through and look at, they had these like Halloween costumes and I wanted to be a Marine, you know, Marine costume and in there. And you'd look at all these cool things in the catalog and you'd buy something that would show up at your door. You would call them and buy it?

Yeah, it was like an 800 number that you'd call and you'd order something. And then they would deliver it in a week or something like that. Well, then Sears decided as they got bigger, we need stores to satisfy that demand and then along comes Walmart and Changes everything right they started doing

More aggressive pricing and bigger and bigger stores and pretty soon Sears went by Kick off an exciting football season with bet MGM an official sportsbook partner of the National Football League. Yard after yard, down after down, the sportsbook Born in Vegas gives you the chance to take action to the end zone and celebrate every highlight reel play. And as an official sportsbook partner of the NFL, BetMGM is the best place to fuel your football fandom on every game day. With a variety of exciting features, BetMGM offers you plenty of seamless ways to jump straight onto the gridiron and to embrace peak sports action. Ready for another season of gridiron glory?

What are you waiting for? Get off the bench, into the huddle, and head for the end zone all season long. Visit betmgm.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older. Ontario only. Please gamble responsibly. Gambling problem? For free assistance call the Connex Ontario Helpline at 1-866-531-2600. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Uber Reserve, good things come to those who plan ahead. Family vacay? Reserve your ride as soon as you book your flights.

To all the planners, now you can reserve your Uber ride up to 90 days in advance. See Uber app for details. The wayside, and well, they're still around barely, but then what happened? Amazon comes in and says, well, we can do it better. We can go online. But think about what Amazon is.

It's a catalog company. I mean, it goes full circle all the way back to where Sears was. Wow. They just found a better way to do it. They just made it better. They just made it better, yeah. And then eventually there'll be a company

that can make it even better, right? Exactly. And that's what change is all about. Change equals opportunity. Sears, had they stayed the course, could have been Amazon today. But when you get big, that inertia sets in, resistance to change creeps into every organization. And instead of being the Amazon of today, which is ironically where they started, they've pretty much gone away. Yeah, there's been a few big companies

that's happened to you, right? Radio Shack. Yeah. I think Red Lobster's bankrupt right now. Yeah. There's been quite a few recently. Blockbuster. Blockbuster.

I wasn't going to bring it up until you did. No, I mean, I had to. I mean, here's the irony. I'm out there talking about change, and I get, of course, you'll post one of these, and somebody will be out there going, oh, yeah, this is the guy that turned down Netflix for $50 million. And what they don't think through is the real story,

because there's so much more to learn in the blockbuster story about change. Yeah, I wanna hear your side of that. So you got presented that deal to buy Netflix. What's going on in your head? No, I didn't, ironically. But here's where people get their information. We're living in a world of perceptions.

I'm going to talk more about perception in a while, but we're living in a world of perceptions where you flip on the internet and you're scrolling through things and you see something and you just react to it, and then you take it as fact. So on the internet, there is this perception that the CEO of Blockbuster turned down Netflix offer

to sell for $50 million. Here's the reality, that happened in the year 2000. In the year 2000, Netflix stock was trading for 79 cents. So what I like to tell people is, if you think that was a dumb move to turn them down for 50 million, why didn't you buy the stock at 79 cents a share, right? You'd be pretty wealthy. So it was already public at the time.

It was public, yeah. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, but they were doing DVDs by mail and struggling. And so Blockbuster looked at that deal. This is seven years before I got to the company. Got it. This was the year 2000. And they said, we can do the same thing ourselves.

And they did. So they had built a DVD by mail business, just as Netflix did. And Blockbuster's plan was to stream. It's just that in 2007, people forget that streaming was a very, very ineffective vehicle at the time because of buffering, the lack of Wi-Fi, the lack of bandwidth that created not a great user experience at the time. Right. So

the quality wasn't there. Quality wasn't there. Now we did buy a streaming company. We bought a company called Blockbuster, called MovieLink, that we renamed Blockbuster on demand. So again, people don't know the story, but Blockbuster was very well prepared for streaming in 2007 when I arrived with the acquisition of this company that was really built by the studios to prevent the fragmentation that's occurred as a result today. Interesting.

So you were prepared for the streaming era. So then what exactly happened? Absolutely. Well, again, change happened. So here we were, we had significantly increased earnings for the company, made some improvement in store operations, bought a streaming video company. We had something called Total Access. You get DVDs by mail, online, in stores, kiosks even to compete with Redbox.

And then all of a sudden in 2008, Lehman Brothers collapsed, the financial markets completely shut down. The banking system was basically in disarray worldwide. This wasn't just the United States. It's a worldwide financial crisis. And Blockbuster had a billion dollars of debt that had to be refinanced in 2009. Mmm.

That's the real story of Blockbuster. It was very difficult to get that debt refinanced. We ultimately did restructure the company and sold the company to Dish Networks. Oh, got it. Yeah. Oh, gosh. You never hear that part of the story. Yeah, I know. No, people just take, again, perception. I'll take the nickel version of the story,

and then I'll accept it for real. But there's so much more to learn if someone digs in and gets the truth. That's interesting, because you hear that with Google and Yahoo, too. You're like, oh, they could have bought, Yahoo could have bought Google or something, right? Exactly.

Exactly. But they don't know. No one's ever heard Yahoo's side of it. Right. Exactly. Yeah, that's interesting. So many stories. When was that shift from physical stores to streaming? Was it a specific year? You remember? It didn't really it wasn't really viable. It began in the year 2008 2009

We had Roku came out with a device TVs weren't smart There weren't apps and put a of time stamp this, the iPad, which now the first time we had a device that was viable to watch movies on, that was launched in 09. So by 2010, 2011, we were just then beginning to see viable streaming capability. Prior to that, there was a little streaming going on in 07, 08, but it was primarily kids on an Xbox.

Got it, that makes sense. Yeah. So Redbox must be struggling now, right? Yeah, Redbox is struggling, but Redbox, it was an interesting business model. They had a very low-cost device. They created these little kiosks for probably 10,000 each and put them in front of Walmart stores and 7-Eleven stores.

Wegman's too. Yeah, yeah. And ironically, the studios did not support that model. So the studios wouldn't sell them DVDs. You know how they got their inventory? They would literally go to Walmart. No. Yeah. And buy, they had a whole army of young people, basically, they'd send in a Walmart and buy five copies of a movie. What? Is there a full retail price?

Yeah, well, but here's the deal. Walmart was using DVDs as a loss leader. Oh. So to attract customers. Interesting. And they didn't realize that Redbox had made a whole, built a whole distribution model around going into Walmart stores, buying them.

Their cost of goods, believe it or not not was lower than mine at Blockbuster. Whoa Yeah, cuz they were buying the the Discounted DVDs at Walmart that's crazy. I know I know what a strategy. I know does a loss-lending strategy still work you think these days? I yeah, I I'm not a big fan of lost leaders at retail. I know a lot of retailers use them but I think it always comes down you know prior to Blockbuster I was CEO of 7-eleven and I'm just a big believer it's all about the product. You are what you sell. I agree because I feel like customer

loyalty is not as strong as it used to be. Right. Because people are now just shopping prices if we're being honest. They're shopping price. Price will always be a factor. Price has been a factor since retail was invented. But ultimately, it comes down to the product. You're going to buy, I mean, look at Starbucks. I remember when Starbucks came in, 7-Eleven at the time,

we were the biggest retailer of coffee in the world. And Starbucks came in and, yeah, I'm guilty. I looked at them and said, who's gonna spend four bucks for a cup of coffee, right? But the quality of their product and the experience was so good that price didn't matter to that customer. They were willing to pay for the quality of the experience and the quality of the product.

It's a great lesson in that. Interesting. Yeah, you're right. That's a great example in that. Interesting. Yeah, you're right. That's a great example, actually. Yeah, because some people do have that loyalty if they like the experience and the overall. It's not just the price, right? Exactly.

If you go to 7-Eleven in Japan, they are selling restaurant quality sushi. And people will use 7-Eleven in Japan, not just Japan, but Taiwan, Thailand, Korea. They'll use 7-Eleven for three meals a day. Whoa. Because the quality of the food is so good that it keeps them coming back.

7-Eleven in Asia doesn't have to discount. They don't play that game. They don't have to play that game. It's a good value, but it's really about the quality of product Yeah, I used to go to 7-eleven all the time Probably when you were CEO actually probably I went when I was a kid. Yeah, Boston cream donut also. Oh man. Oh, yeah Good. Yeah, that was an innovation believe it or not putting those donuts in the store was a big deal We had to build a whole nationwide

infrastructure with bakeries that were in every market, partnering with bakers and the ability to distribute that product at least once a day. Cause you can't have a donut sit on the shelf for 48 hours and it's just not good anymore. So we had built, basically had the advantage of being able to replicate the thing that made 7-eleven in Japan and in Asia so successful which is daily delivery of

fresh products. Yeah because the stores are small so how do you decide what gets in what gets out? This is the the secret sauce for 7-eleven they were able to harness technology in a way that let them change the product assortment literally by store, by figuring out, because convenience is literally neighborhood by neighborhoods, sometimes a store on one side of the street has different needs, different customer needs than a store on the other side.

You might have one on the drive side that people are stopping for coffee on the way in, and then on the way home maybe they don't drink as much coffee and the coffee sales would be lower. So the idea is to use technology to know every item in the store, every SKU, which is the stock keeping unit, and be able to manage that inventory appropriately so you're never ever out of stock

on the best selling products, and on the slow moving items since the store is so small, the challenge is to eliminate those items and replace them constantly with things that have a better chance of success. Wow, so you were using that tech in the early 2000s? Yeah, yeah, we were one of the first to adopt it. Whoa. It was fabulous and it really, it made the difference.

7-Eleven in Japan first launched this tech and it totally transformed their business. I bet, because before it was manually, so you would have to guess what would sell. Exactly, and 7-Eleven in the United States, when I first got there, we had a history of negative same store sales. Really?

We were declining every year, because we were building a lot of stores and perhaps sales. Really? We're declining every year, because we were building a lot of stores and perhaps cannibalizing some stores, but the real problem wasn't the number of stores. The real problem at the time was we really didn't know what sold, more importantly, what didn't sell in every store. Yeah, they're everywhere.

Yeah. 7-Elevens. Oh yeah, almost 80,000 stores now. Holy crap. Yeah. And the ones atvens. Oh yeah. Almost 80,000 stores now. Holy crap. Yeah. And the ones at gas stations, I assume do the best. In a window of time, yes. Think of gasoline as another convenience item. And the nice thing about 7-Eleven is it will

continue to morph and sell those things that you need conveniently. So literally the company started selling ice for people's icebox. Oh wow. Yeah, and they transformed over time by keeping up with change. Right.

So every time something changes, I mean take ATMs, we had, during my tenure there, ATMs used to be only at banks. And then they started putting them randomly at a few locations. Well we decided, it's a convenience item for people to get access to their cash. So we made the hard call, put them in every 7-Eleven store. And that was probably expensive at the time.

It was very expensive because some stores didn't generate enough revenue to be able to make the ATM, the cost of the machine work. But by making that decision, then people began to realize any 7-Eleven, I know I can get cash. And then it became a huge revenue generator for the company. Smart. Yeah. Yeah. And vapes became big and I'm sure they started

selling vaporizers and caught that trend. Yeah, exactly. Vapes, tobacco was declining, but then as tobacco declined, vaping started to grow. So again, came in, provided the convenience. but then as tobacco declined, vaping started to grow. So again, came in, provided the convenience. And that one thing that is consistent, the need for convenience will never go away.

Absolutely. Right? So if you keep up with change, you're gonna win. Absolutely. When did Slurpee Day launch? Cause that's one of the most viral marketing campaigns of all time. I know, you'll love this story.

So here's how the Slurpee Day started. We played with the idea. Let's give a free Slurpee on 7-Eleven Day. In fact, I think the first time we did it may have been in 2002, which was the company's 75th anniversary. We had a big splashy thing at New York City. We rang the bell on Wall Street, had a big event

at Radio City Music Hall in Ellis Island. All this to celebrate the company's birthday and we provided free Slurpees. Well, we hadn't really thought it through. Franchisees were a little upset because it was so popular that people came in and we didn't provide a little cup. It was just, just take a Slurpee and people were loading up these 16 ounce Slurpees and walking out. And so we, we, we stopped doing it for a couple of years and then around 2005, it was right around the time we sold the company.

We ended up selling 7-Eleven to the Japanese licensee. David Letterman had a little red ass. Oh yeah? Well, here's what happened. Our race team was Michael Andretti and the Andretti racing team. And we had a car at Indy. The Andretti team then hired Danica Patrick. Oh, nice. Away from Rahal Letterman racing.

Oh. Right? And that happens all the time. I mean, drivers get hired back and forth. It's like football players changing teams. Well, unfortunately, when a guy's named David Letterman and he's got a show, uh, but the next week he puts an actor on stage.

I'm at home watching TV and this guy comes out and this Jim Keyes, CEO of 7-Eleven. I'm going, what's up with that? And, uh, the guy comes on stage and says, Dave, congratulations, thanks for helping us feature 7-Eleven's free Slurpees. Anybody that goes into a 7-Eleven gets a free Slurpee. Whoa.

Well, of course, this caused chaos. We weren't, the company wasn't prepared for it. People all came into the store, and literally that triggered the realization that this is so popular. Why don't we just do this? So what started as a joke on 7-Eleven day with David Letterman being upset at us

for stealing his race car driver, ended up being a good thing and we put, the company ended up putting the small cups in smart Yeah, you turn a negative into a positive turn to negative into a positive. What do you say afterwards? Well, it was funny because he he then he did this twice with 7-eleven first. He did it with Free Slurpees a few weeks later came back with free hot dogs. Well now the lawyers, of course Yeah, maybe it's not a good those are a little more expensive than us Exactly, but ironically I had already left the company by now

Okay, and but he still used this guy Jim Keyes CEO and every time a company Carnival Cruise lines toilets were overflowing as Jim Keyes CEO of Carle cruise. He came a bit Oh, yeah, he had it going for like 10 years. Damn. of Carvel Cruise. He became a bit free. He had it going for like 10 years. Damn. It was hysterical. He was petty with you. He was petty. He was really mad you took Danica. Shout out to Danica. She's been on the show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's awesome. Danica's great. Yeah, she's great. Yeah, hot dogs. Shout out to Costco because they kept the same price for 22 years. Pretty amazing. $1.50. They're obviously losing money on that at this point. That's a classic class leader, but Costco looks at it

as a service because people love the hot dogs and they love to come in and let's face it, they're gonna buy a lot while they're there. Oh yeah, well just their food court in general, all the prices are super reasonable. You're not spending that much and it's a pretty good meal. Yeah, I'm a big Costco customer. I love Costco.

I get teased because half my wardrobe comes from, they have great value. They got good clothes. I buy my Levi's hair, yeah. I buy myased because I you know half my wardrobe comes from them. They have great value They got good clothes. I buy my Levi's there. I buy my socks my underwear. Yeah, sometimes some yeah apparel and Interesting business model right? That's too much information You just told the whole world that you got your underwear at Costco it's not gonna be good for yeah Nah, but interesting model cuz they don't make high margins. No, I know. I know. Membership model. That membership model works and Costco did a really, really good job.

I mean, think about competing with Sam's and Walmart. They've done quite well. Yeah. I wonder how Walmart's doing these days. Walmart, I think is doing well. I've done a lot of business with Walmart over the years. A huge respect for Sam Walton when he came in, what he started, the culture he built. And they have a fabulous corporate culture there. But they suffer from being big.

When you're as big as Walmart, you have a giant target on your back. And it's tough because people are going to challenge virtually everything you do. Oh yeah. Yeah, I know the theft was a big deal, right? With Walmart and Target. Yeah, it was a little bit of a challenge. But you know, Sean, a lot of that stuff, retailers, I've been through these cycles

throughout my career. And cycles come and go. And we went through a really tough time during the pandemic and crime went through the roof. And retailers suffer the brunt of that challenge because people are desperate in a way. Yeah.

And they will do some pretty stupid things, but you know, you, at the end of the day, these things will pass and a good retailer will find you don't have to lock up the whole store. You build trust with your customers. And ironically, I used to have some of the stores in the toughest parts of town with the lowest amount of shrink.

Really? Yeah. Because what the trick was, if you keep that store well, you hire great staff, the neighbors know them, the store is clean. That store becomes almost a sacred treasure of the neighborhood. They don't want to mess it up.

Right. So they'll defend their own store and protect their own store from others who might come in and want to, want to do damage. 100%. Yeah. I'm big on energy and big on environment. Yeah.

It really does work. And, and, and again, when you're a big company, sometimes you don't see that. You lose that people touch and the importance. But I don't care how tough the neighborhood is, you can make it work with the right people and the right products and the right store environment. Yeah. So obviously self-checkout was pretty revolutionary. Do you see AI being part of retail moving forward? Yeah AI I think is gonna do a lot for retail. I Think there's some vulnerability though a lot of people when new tech comes They want so badly to embrace it that they'll try things that I call tech for the sake of tech

Yeah, too fast Exactly. Well, or they or it's gee whiz stuff that maybe looks good, but doesn't really move the needle on the business. I do think tech will help us significantly in being able to manage inventories. We were at 7-Eleven very early in the idea of using technology to empower the store manager, store operator, to make much better decisions about things

like product, inventories, and in-stock capability. AI will be able to do a lot of that thinking for them, but never replace the person. Here's the difference. The computer, the AI, that's the best systems in the world will know what's selling and what's not selling, but that store operator who's there talking to the customers,

they're the only ones that really know, you know what, there's construction that's gonna start in two weeks on this street. It'll really be hard by the time AI realizes that construction has happened and is having an impact on the sales, by then it's too late. The operator with the eyes and ears

and the pulse on the community empowered with AI can do a far better job than just the computer alone. Yeah. So I don't really worry about the future of AI taking away all these jobs. I think AI is going to supplement jobs and really help people do a better job, but it's hard for us to eliminate the importance of that person.

And, you know, it's the story I said a minute ago, the neighborhood, um, that store is part of the neighborhood and that person in there has a relationship with those customers. It's a very, very valuable element of retailing. That's easy to overlook. Yeah. So you still value that human connection. Exactly. With your businesses.

Exactly. How has your leadership style changed over the years? I've got a different point of view on leadership. I don't think there is one leadership style. There's a lot of people that teach servant leadership, this kind, or X, Y, Z leadership. I believe leadership is all about change and all about learning to adapt because the reality is, as I said, change equals opportunity. Things are going to change.

People are going to change. Systems are going to change. Customers are going to change. The leader must be able to adapt to those changes in order to effectively lead. to adapt to those changes in order to effectively lead. Unfortunately, too many leaders get stuck in a model that may have worked in a robust economy and all of a sudden the markets collapse, they have to pivot and they're just unable to do it because they're used to one leadership style, one management style.

Yeah, because a typical one I see in big companies is like a fear-based style, right? Yeah. Like the employees fear the boss or whatever. Yeah, yeah. That's just not just in companies, by the way. That's pervasive in society today, if you think about it. That's everywhere, but that's not an optimal

working environment, in my opinion, right? It's not an optimal working environment, it's not an optimal societal environment in my opinion, right? It's not an optimal working environment, it's not an optimal societal environment. And unfortunately, the change in availability of technology with the internet and social media, et cetera, et cetera, has, I think, accelerated this propensity of fear. I mean, think about it, turn on any news channel or just flip through social media.

Yeah. It's a fire hose of they're coming to get you. Look what they're going to do to you. They can do this. They can do that. And the, you know, the irony is fear is our worst, our worst enemy as individuals and as a society, what are we afraid of? Right. is our worst enemy as individuals and as a society.

What are we afraid of? With knowledge, we can accomplish anything. In fact, I quoted Yoda in the book. I love it. Yeah, well, it's better to quote Yoda than to quote ancient philosophers because people don't care what ancient philosophers say. They care what Yoda said. But he was talking to Luke about the importance of, well, about the force

and about fear leading to the dark side. He said fear leads to the dark side because ignorance leads to fear and fear leads to anger and anger leads to violence. And that negative cycle, we're there in so many parts of society, so many parts of the world, in this cycle of fear and anger that is fixable. His advice to Luke was use the force, which to me is kind of a metaphor for faith. I don't care which faith, but a faith in something, a belief in the universe or in God. He encouraged Luke to use the force and knowledge. And those two things were the antidote to that negative cycle because he could turn understanding and knowledge

into hope and into peace. I love that. Yeah, isn't that cool? That's so cool. I mean, that was in Star Wars. It was right there. If you think about the messaging behind that, that we're in control of our own destiny.

And if we have a belief in ourselves and we learn how to learn, we can overcome virtually anything and we have nothing to fear. Yep, that's such great advice because knowledge is pretty accessible these days. You could go to your local library, you could go to YouTube,

and you could use that to escape your negative environment. That's exactly right. That's really the message that I've been out talking about that today, technology, the advantage of technology is, I have right here in my pocket, a portal to unlimited learning. So if I choose to be led around by a bunch of perceptions, I'm vulnerable to that.

And it may make me angry, it may make me want to fight. Alternatively, I can use that portal to unlimited learning and I can find truth. It may be hard sometimes, you may have to really work at it, but the truth is there. And if we have the personal discipline to seek the truth, then we can replace our own anger and our own propensity for aggression or reaction. We can change that with what I like to call relentless positivity. Because I'm a positive guy.

Why? Because I don't have any fear, and I know that I can learn anything to overcome any challenge that somebody might throw at me. Love it. Yeah, that's a great mindset to have, because a lot of people do deal with anger, but you could channel that in the right way.

You can channel it in the right way, yeah. And think about it, as an entrepreneur, it can kill your career as an entrepreneur. You can't allow that fear to creep in. You can't allow that fear to creep in. You can't allow that anger to creep in. It's that relentless positivity that will make you successful as an entrepreneur. And outside of the business world, it's just a good way to live. Absolutely.

Did you ever have any struggles with ego because you had all this success. I, you know, I, I like to think that I know where I came from. So for me, uh, everything was upside and I know I could go back if I had to. So I think that helps keep me humble. But, but I have struggled. I've had people say, Hey, dude, you think you know everything. You're so arrogant, right? I mean, because confidence can be perceived as arrogance. Yeah, there's a fine line, right?

Really fine line. But here's what I learned in researching for the book. I found Norman Vincent Peale, right? He was a old time preacher, wrote the power of positive thinking. He was a big influencer of the day, right? Uh, and he was big on confidence, but he preached in equal amounts, the importance of humility because confidence and humility have to go hand

in hand to avoid arrogance. But his definition of humility was really interesting because it wasn't, it wasn't humility in the sense that, oh gee, I'm not so smart, you know, blah, blah, blah. Not self-effacing, which is fine to be self-effacing, but he said true humility is when you're smart enough to know that you don't know everything and that every other human being walking on this planet

has something that you can learn. And if you just always try to learn from them, then you're gonna stay this side of that line of arrogance because they'll know that you don't know everything. Wow. Isn't that cool? It's very cool. Yes, you gotta get different perspectives, right?

You gotta get different perspectives. And you may may not agree you don't have to agree but to be able to entertain Another thought right really important and what comes to mind when you're talking about this as politicians, right? Sometimes they lose touch with reality because they're so in their bubble. They're not getting different perspectives exactly and and we're caught up in a in a time when There is a perceived strength around sticking to your position even if it's wrong. I call it, in the book, I called it militant ignorance, where somebody knows something's wrong, but well, that was my position. I don't want to be thought of as a flip flop. I used to do that. It was a terrible habit. Yeah, no, everybody does it. But that's where confidence comes in.

If you have the strength of conviction yourself, as a politician or as a business person or just a guy on the street. Absolutely. If you have that strength of conviction, then it's okay to be able to say, you know what? I said XYZ yesterday, today I have more information. And now I'm gonna say something different.

But that's because I'm armed with knowledge for more information. Yeah, I love when people open up like that too. It's a good sign for me. It is. In business and friendship. Exactly. Good way to pick your friends.

Yeah, where can people find the book and keep up with you, man? I'm out there, JamesWKeys.com. I've got a website. They can order it. It's available on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, all the online sites. And I've got Jay Keys, author, is my social media handle on TikTok and Instagram and others. And yeah, I hope people will help me spread the word because I think there's a I think there's a message here that can help all of us Whether you're in school and you know, you want to do a better job academically whether you're an entrepreneur You want to use learning to succeed and build confidence?

I think there's a good message here. Absolutely my objective is sharing. Yeah, we'll link everything below. Thanks for coming on today Thank you, Sean. Yep, appreciate the opportunity for sure. Thanks for watching guys. Check out the book. Check out a site See you guys next time