Digital Social Hour - The $20M Church Mistake: Rethinking Business & Faith | Nicole Vallance DSH #972

Episode Date: December 12, 2024

Discover the shocking $20M church mistake and why one former church consultant is completely rethinking the relationship between business and faith! 🚀 Nicole shares her powerful journey from coaching churches to transforming businesses, revealing why 97% of American churches are missing the mark. Learn why traditional church models might be limiting impact and how business leaders are the true ministers in today's world. Get ready for mind-blowing statistics about Jesus's ministry in the marketplace and discover why your business might be more "spiritual" than you think. Nicole breaks down four major misbeliefs about church and business, sharing practical insights that will transform how you view faith in the workplace. Whether you're a business owner, entrepreneur, or someone curious about the intersection of faith and business, this episode will challenge everything you thought you knew about ministry and success. Nicole reveals how business leaders can make a bigger impact than 97% of churches and why that matters for your bottom line. Ready to revolutionize your approach to business and faith? Watch now for game-changing insights that could transform your perspective on purpose, profit, and impact. 🙌 #Business #Faith #Entrepreneurship #Leadership #ChurchGrowth #BusinessTransformation #Ministry #DigitalSocialHour #ministrystaffing #johnmaxwell #churchdisruptedpodcast #pastoralleadership #graceoverguilt CHAPTERS: 00:00 - Intro 00:20 - Nicole's Transformation 03:30 - Misbelief 1: Church Operations Outside the Building 06:09 - Misbelief 2: Marketplace Christians and Financial Support 08:21 - Misbelief 3: Spirituality in Business vs. Ministry 09:52 - Politics and Faith 15:24 - Accepting God’s Presence 17:48 - Understanding Sin 18:00 - The Nature of Spiritual Business 20:15 - Nicole’s Current Projects 21:00 - Nicole’s Message to the World APPLY TO BE ON THE PODCAST: https://www.digitalsocialhour.com/application BUSINESS INQUIRIES/SPONSORS: [e-mail] GUEST: Nicole Vallance https://www.instagram.com/connectedwithnicole/ https://www.connectedwithnicole.com/ https://www.youtube.com/@ConnectedwithNicole LISTEN ON: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/digital-social-hour/id1676846015 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5Jn7LXarRlI8Hc0GtTn759 Sean Kelly Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seanmikekelly/ Digital Social Hour works with participants in sponsored media and stays compliant with Federal Communications Commission (FCC) regulations regarding sponsored media. #ad Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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it's not, they're not the ones in ministry. Ministry is what I do outside of the four walls of the local church in business. And so the ministers are not the pastors that are speaking on Sunday. All right guys, Connected with Nicole is here today. Going through a massive transformation in your business right now, right? Yeah, I am. Thanks for coming on. Yeah thanks for

having me I'm excited to be here. Yeah because I know you used to coach pastors and churches and you're kind of transitioning away into bigger things now right? Yeah a couple years ago major major change. And what caused that? You know I have a lot of respect for like all the leadership guys right John Maxwell, Jim Collins, Patrick Lincione, and I listened to a message from John Maxwell, and it was called Winning Our World for Christ. So I became a Christian when I was 19, and I listened to this message by John.

He was a church planter pastor, just like I've been for 20 years, and he said he had this season in his life where he calls it the crossover, where instead of just being focused on building the local church, he crossed over into leadership and business. And I mean, who hasn't heard of John Maxwell, right?

And so he did this message for pastors and leaders at a conference and he said, what are we going to do about the 53% of people that are never coming to our churches? Like if you're a Christian or you believe in the resurrection of Jesus, you know, if you, if you, uh, you know, believe all of that and you want to reach people, they're not coming to church. And so John talks about how the church is irrelevant if we're not connected with people that are different than us, if we're not out in the marketplace in business and government, like we're so disconnected. And he did that message and I was like, you know what? Like, I'm gonna switch over.

Like I'm gonna cross over. Like I'm really gonna go after the business owners and the leaders and serve them and help their organizations grow. But teach them how to reach people in their business for Christ. Right, I love that. And you've been involved with the church for 20 years, right?

So do you see the numbers dropping year by year? Oh, yeah, I mean the churches it is. Okay Sean like 97% of churches in America are under 70 people. Wow. Yeah under 70 people 97% of churches in America and If you do the the math like so on average the amount of people that come to Christ in a year 0.5% come to Christ in a year, 0.5% come to Christ and have a relationship with God from church on Sunday. 95%, Sean, come through a co-worker, through a friend. And so we think that the way to change people's lives is by getting them to come to church, but it's not. It never has been, and it's still not today. So what do you

think the best way is, hon? The best way, listen, it's hard to have compassion on who you're not connected to. And so I think the best way is business. I think that the greatest, greatest leaders, Sean, we think that there's a separation between the sacred and the secular. We think, oh, the sacred is the Billy Graham's and the Mother Teresa's and the Pope's and the pastor's.

No. The secular is sacred. It's the business owners, it and the pastors. No. The secular is sacred. It's the business owners, it's the entrepreneurs. I think the true heroes of America, at the very least, are the business owners, the entrepreneurs. They're the ones that are making capitalism possible. They're the ones that are employing people. They're the ones that are bringing products

and services to market. And so, if business owners and leaders can really find out who they are and how important their work is, we really can't change the world and it's not being done through the four walls of the local church. It's just not. Right. And that belief is probably different from most, right? So, so different.

So different, Sean. Yeah, because there's four major misbeliefs. Could we go through these? Yeah. Yeah, so the first one is the church is called to operate primarily inside of a building. Yeah. So you believe you could operate anywhere. Yeah.

So when you say church, one of my questions I hate is when people say, Nicole, where do you go to church? That's the wrong question. The right question is who are you serving? Who are you impacting? Who are you influencing for Christ? The church, the Greek word for church is the word ecclesia, which means the people of God.

And ecclesia was actually taken from the Romans, right? In the Romans, the ecclesia was literally the word that was described for the politicians and the leaders who came together to make decisions for the city. And so in the Bible, when they talk about the church, it's talking about the leaders, the marketplace leaders, the business owners that are coming together to make decisions on behalf of the good of the community. And so it's not about like, where we go to church, it's who are we being the church to. You know Jesus, he loves people, he healed people, he helps people. Most of the miracles, Sean, that were done during Jesus's life and during the early church were not done in the temple within the four walls of our traditional church. They were done in people's homes. They were done in business. They were done

not within the temple court. And that's actually interesting to me because a big part of the reason I didn't like going to church was because it was so far away. It felt like a hassle. We had to drive 40 minutes, you know what I mean? Yeah. As a kid.

The goal isn't to go to church. As a Christian, I became a Christian when I was 19. Kick off an exciting football season with BedMGM, an official sportsbook partner of the National Football League. Yard after yard, down after down, the sportsbook, Born in Vegas, gives you the chance to take action to the end zone and celebrate every highlight reel play. And as an official sportsbook partner of the NFL, BetMGM is the best place to fuel your football fandom on every game day. With a variety of exciting features, BetMGM offers you plenty of seamless ways to jump straight onto the gridiron and to embrace peak sports action. Ready for another season of gridiron glory?

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Hurry up though, like the holiday season, Popeyes $25 festive family box deal will be over before you know it. Love that chicken from Popeyes. I prayed this prayer, Sean. I said, God, if you're real, make yourself real to me. Right, like, isn't that true? Like, doesn't everybody listening, like, if God is real, if Jesus rose from the dead,

like, I don't wanna just be religious. I don't wanna go to church on Sunday because I think it makes me a better person. I don't. Right. Like, to me, a lot of people think being a Christian is about being more moral. To me, that's not it. I know a lot of Hindus, Jewish people, atheists, agnostic, that to be honest, are way more moral than I am. Honestly, to me, being a Christian isn't about me being more moral. It's about

being forgiven. It's about having an actual real relationship with God. And so it's like, if we actually believe that, then our mission isn't so much, we've got to be more moral and we've got to get people to come to church. Like we have to have an actual real relationship with God and be connected with people so that if and when they're ready and open to hear about our relationship

with God, we're there for them. But we're not there for them because we're trying to get them to come to church. We're there for them because like we're in their lives and we care about them and we want there for them, but we're not there for them because we're trying to get them to come to church. We're there for them because like we're in their lives and we care about them and we want to serve them and we're helping them and we're employing them and all those kinds of things. That's fascinating.

Yeah, I do hear a lot of people join to like heal themselves or cure their sins. So that's interesting perspective you're providing. Another misbelief is the primary role of marketplace Christians is to make money to support the vision of those in the ministry. So is that the tithing you're talking about? Yeah. So we think like, you know, when you have a church, we think that there's like the business people, right? That come in and they're making money. And so we want them

to give and to tithe and sure everyone should give and tithe to any mission, right? Any organization that they want to be a part of. But sometimes we think that we separated, we say, okay, the business leaders and the entrepreneurs, they're called to support those who are in ministry. And to me, if a pastor has a job and they do have a job, it's not, they're not the ones in ministry. Their job is to support and equip and train those who are in ministry, who are those that are in ministry, not those that are speaking on stage on Sundays. No, ministry, this is what 2 Corinthians says, that we have been reconciled to Christ as Christians, and we've been given the ministry of reconciliation. And so what is ministry? Ministry

is what I do outside of the four walls of the local church in business, at my job. And so the ministers are not the pastors that are speaking on Sunday. That's And so the ministers are not the pastors that are speaking on Sunday. That's not who the ministers are. The ministers are the me, the you, the Moses Heredia, the business leaders, the business owners that are 24 hours a day, seven days a week, like, you know, doing all the things outside

of typical church on Sunday. Everyday person. Yeah, everyday person. That's the minister, that's the leader. You know, we think, if you think of a missionary, you think about somebody who's spiritual, we have images that come to our mind. It's like, but every single person is a missionary. Every single person can be on mission.

Every single person can do ministry. And as a Christian, it's our responsibility. I mean, if we really believe, Sean, if you think about this, if Christians actually believe, if it, let's say it's true that Jesus rose from the dead, and I don't know, you know, exactly where you're at with your faith or where your listeners are at, but if that's true as a Christian, like if somebody has cancer and we have the cure, like, what did you think our number one job would be like to give them the cure? Yeah, and so, but a lot of Christians don't know that and they don't, they haven't been told that, and I just think that that's

so important. I think the think that that's so important. I think the people that have the greatest ability to impact people are the Christian business owners. Absolutely. And that's a perfect segue into this next misbelief, right? Because people involved in business cannot be as spiritual as those serving in traditional church ministry. That's a myth, right?

That's such a myth. Moses Seradia and I, we met last year and he recently brought me on as executive vice president of his company. And I love consulting business owners, you know, with all of my heart. And let me just tell you, Sean, he was just with Donald Trump two weeks ago. He you know, we had politicians at his office a couple days ago. We have hundreds of employees, you know, we're 10Xing his company this year. We're with people of all different faiths,

all different walks. Like we do morning huddles where we do prayer and that is so spiritual. I don't know how that's not spiritual. We reach more people through his company and business owners have an opportunity to reach more people through their company than 97% of churches in America.

Absolutely. That's spiritual to me. Yeah, because within a church, you could reach a couple hundred people, maybe if you're a mega church, a couple thousand, but. If you're Sean Kelly, you can reach 10 million. With social media, you could reach out on one video like three times a day.

That's right. So yeah, the scale is way bigger, right? Yeah, so if you don't view your podcast as spiritual, if you don't view your business as spiritual if you don't view your business as a spiritual if you view it as just secular or not important like if if Jesus was on the earth today Sean You know what he would have? Instagram Digital social hour, you know, he would have you know global processes systems business. Like that's what he would be doing

I love that. That's super cool. Yeah, so speaking of Trump and just politics in general Where are you at with that? Hold that whole debacle, I guess. Yeah, you know Here's here's my thoughts on politics and Sure, I could tell you winter's coming or that it brings cold dry air But you already knew that what you might not know is that dove deep moisture body wash It's made with millions of moisturizing micro-moisture droplets to keep your skin silky soft for 24 hours. Plus, it's paraben and sulfate free. No matter how dry

your skin feels, Dove has you covered. Buy Dove Body Wash today at your local retailer or visit dove.ca to learn more and order online. I don't know if you remember the Olympics and the whole last supper thing that happened. The opening, yeah. Yeah, the opening. I'm't know if you remember the Olympics and the whole last supper thing that happened. Yeah, the opening. I'm sure you've heard from a number of your Christian friends, right? It's like they were so offended. The Christian community, they were pissed.

They were like, how dare they make a mockery of Jesus? And let me just tell you, like Sean, I'm conservative, right? Like I have traditional Christian values, I do, okay? I do. However, I think it is so hypocritical and it pisses me all the way off, okay? For us Christians to sit on our moral high ground and judge these people. Sean, the Christians that are complaining about the people that were making a mockery of the Last Supper, right, during the Olympics, are the same people that if you ask them, who was the last person you led to Christ and when was the last time you tried it, they

wouldn't have an answer. I would say, who is an LGBTQ or transgender person in your life that you love, that loves you, that you know everything that's going on in your life, you're praying for them. If you think that what they're doing is such a sin, like, okay, we're all entitled to believe what we want to believe about what is moral, what is not moral. But if you think that is so immoral, then why don't you go ahead and be the change that you want to see in the world? See, the same people that are complaining about what happened at the Last Supper, I promise you, are the same people that are not connected to people far from Christ.

I think it is irresponsible and ungodly. If anything is ungodly, it's ungodly to be a Christian and not have non-Christian friends. That's ungodly. It's ungodly to believe that somebody has cancer and you have the cure and not give them the cure. If we really believe that the world is lost and dying without Christ and we don't care and we're not connected to them and we're not sharing Christ with them, then shut all the way up Christ, and we don't care and we're not connected to them and we're not sharing Christ with them,

then shut all the way up. I don't care, I'm so tired of it. So to all of the people that are complaining about how dark and sinful our world is, we'll do something about it. And it's like, I don't know why we're surprised at how broken and far people are from God when we're not

doing anything about it to change them. Yeah, you see all these people complaining on social media, but nothing happens. Yeah, ask them, who do you know? Who do you know in love in your life that's far from Christ and how are you serving them? Because you know what Jesus was doing? He was turning water into wine. He was healing Peter's mother-in-law. He was feeding the poor.

So like, I'm just tired of all of our, like we're on our holy high ground with all of our morals. And that's not what Jesus came to do. He came to heal the sick. He came to be in people's lives. And I don't want to hear not one more person complain about how dark and broken and sinful and liberal our world is. And they're not connecting with them

and helping them know Christ. It's wrong. Right, because a lot of people live in their own bubble, right? Certain religions, especially like, not to call anyone out, but certain Mormon churches, you can't even be friends with them. Yeah, it's wrong. Speaking from a Christian worldview, Jesus was friends with sinners.

In his team, Sean was, they were millionaires, they were business owners, they were leaders. Like you can't find anybody that was on Jesus's team that was like just totally just religious. They were people that were far from God. They were people that were the uneducated, some of them, some of them were, they had businesses. And so, I just look at who Jesus was reaching and who was on his team and who he was reaching was people far from God.

That's who he cared about. And who was on his team was the business owners and the leaders. And that's so interesting to me because they never teach that. Never. They just show them as some spiritual leader. They never talk about the business,

but I got some crazy facts here that you sent. So of the 52 parables, Jesus told 45 how to workplace context. Is that not crazy? Which is nuts. And then 132 public appearances of Jesus, 122 were in the workplace. That's massive.

And then out of the 40 miracles in Acts, 39 were in the workplace. Yeah, so we think the miracle and the transformation is gonna say, come to church, come to church, come to church. No, no, no. Sean, the great commission, the great assignment is to go into the workplace,

is to go into the marketplace. So if ministry and spiritual things are happening anywhere, it's not happening on church on Sunday. It's happening in our businesses Monday through Friday. Yeah, you're rewiring a lot of people watching this right now because some people would feel shame for missing church to work, but you're kind of reshifting that mindset. Let me just tell you something. I have people in my family that don't know God and you know and they've got got Sarca tournaments and they got things on the weekend and I would rather if there's a Christian in their lives

I would rather that Christian be connected with my family and know that their assignment and their mission is to reach my family member far from Christ for then for them to go to church on Sunday and serve coffee and be a greeter at the front door. Yeah, then you have the mercy of the person teaching too. So sometimes you don't align with their values and you're just listening to them. They're just listening. And you know, and you know, Sean, like I do, I work with churches all over the country.

Listen, if a pastor in a local church is passionate about reaching people far from God, and there are good churches that do that, most don't, but I'm all about it. But most churches, Sean, don't even give people an opportunity to accept Christ on Sunday. So like, if we believe that Jesus rose from the dead

and that he's the way, the truth, and the life, and I believe that he is, and then we do all of this work to get people to come to church on Sunday, and then we don't give them an opportunity to accept and have a relationship with God, like, Debbie, what are we doing? It makes no sense to me.

It's just ridiculous, and it needs to change. It needs to change. So when you say accept, what does that doing? It makes no sense to me. It's just ridiculous and it needs to change. It needs to change. So when you say accept, what does that mean exactly? Accept God? Yeah, so it's by by leaf. A lot of people say that they're, if you think about what sin

is gonna keep you out of heaven, right? It's like, or who's gonna go to hell? There's only one sin that'll keep you out of heaven, Sean. And it's refusal to believe in the son of God. It's unbelief, that's it. Jesus said, if you believe that I died on the cross, that I rose from the dead, if you put your faith in me, you're going to heaven.

That's it, it's so easy, Sean, for people to accept, receive this free gift of salvation. That's what Christmas is all about. It's about the tree and it's about the gifts. And so there was Jesus, he died on the cross, he rose from the dead, and he's offering everyone this free gift of salvation, and all you have to do is unwrap it and receive it and say,

thank you God so much. Being a good person doesn't get me to heaven, Jesus, but you died, you paid my penalties, so I could go to heaven, so thank you so much. Okay, I'm gonna be so happy about my whole life. My good works couldn't get me into heaven, and now that I'm a Christian, my bad works can't keep me out.

I'm real happy about it, super easy. What's your opinion on sinning? Because a lot of people feel shame, and certain people prey on it, right?. I'm real happy about it. Super easy. What's your opinion on sinning? Cause a lot of people feel shame and they seem to, certain people pray on it, right? So how do you feel about it? Yeah, well, my sin is a Christian, like doesn't define me. Now I don't, listen, Sean, like I'm right with God. I promise you, I sin more.

I sin, we all sin. You know, but that's not, my sin no longer can, I no longer have to pay the penalty for my sin ever No matter what sin I commit now or in the future Jesus died on that cross to pay the penalty for my past present future sin So I'm not worried about it like me and God we're good Okay All I'm worried about now is not whether I'm right with God or reading my Bible enough or going to church or doing all the X Y

And Z thing no, I'm not worried about that at all not not one bit. What I'm concerned about is how am I loving people? How am I serving people? How am I reaching people for Christ? That's it, that's what I'm obsessed about. How can I serve business owners? Number one, like just practically, Sean, in my life I'm not worried about sin. In my life I'm worried about, okay,

how can I help the Moses Heretias of the world to next their company? How can I help him make more money? How can I help him engage his employees? How can I help him engage his employees? How can I actually like help him get his product and service to market faster? Number one, and then number two, how can I help him as a Christian business owner

to use the platform and the position and the influence that God has given him to reach people for Christ? That's all I think about, that's all I care about. Me and God, we're good. That's the whole point of Jesus dying and rising from the dead and he took care of all the sin. I'm not worried about sin, not one bit. I'm not a sinner anymore. I'm a saint.

There we go. Yeah. Cause if you get 10 X his business, you're going to impact millions of lives because 100 employees right now. So you're going to have thousands of families taken care of plus the impact of all the knowledge he's sharing to the world. So much. And you know, Sean, like this is, this is where it's so spiritual. We think like, so we're in merchant services. So we help businesses save money with and you know, Sean, like this is where it's so spiritual. We think, like, so we're in merchant services, so we help businesses save money with, you know, the credit card processing fees, right? And so, so I, tell me something that's more spiritual than us helping small to medium sized businesses save money and employ more people and get their products and services

to market faster. That's super spiritual. That's super holy to me. So you're telling me that we have a way with global processing systems to help businesses serve their employees and employ more people, serve their families, put food on their table. That's not spiritual, that is spiritual. Like that's what God cares about.

That's what, so we're in the business of helping business owners that make capitalism possible. Like small to medium sized business owners are the backbone of our country. The backbone, okay? America and capitalism does not exist without small to medium sized business owners. And a company like Moses's Global Process and Systems

gets to serve those businesses and help them save money and have better products. That's super holy. And I think that God cares all the way about that. It's incredible. And I think people should view business that way as a win-win, right? Because you're helping them save money,

you're not taking anything from them. PayPal and Striper out here ripping people off. Ripping people off. You know, taking 4% these days. Yeah. So you're helping them save, you know, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions of dollars.

You have no idea. Which is great. Yeah, yeah and you know, with global, like we don't have the overhead that the banks do. You know, so it's like the money that we see, I see see it every single day like the money that we're able to save business owners And then the commission that we're able to to to help you know our sales agents make it's ridiculous And so I get the opportunity You know because I'm the organizational girl right like if you want to engage your employees you want to align everyone around the vision

Of your company like get me in there right okay number one And so I get to serve companies like Moses's, like sign me all the way up. And then, if he's wanting to, and he is, if a business owner is wanting to, and then I get to help them see how important and holy and sacred their role is as a business owner and impacting people far from God, sign me up every single day of the week. That's what I'm giving my life to. I love it. I don't wanna build a church on Sunday. I wanna be the church Monday through Friday. Gotta think big. Gotta think big. Church is limited. With retail in general, I feel like, you know, if you wanna impact millions, it's hard to do at retail.

Yeah, it's true. And now you're working on a book, a mastermind, you got a lot going on. Yeah, yeah, we're excited. Yeah, the book, Mobilize the Mission, is coming out in January. I'm super excited. It's for the for-profit

and the nonprofit sector. So whether you're a business owner or you're a church or you lead a nonprofit, it's all about, listen, I love organizations. Like people spend most of their waking life at their job. Okay? So like I'm super passionate about helping business owners create the right culture, engage, train their teams, develop an executive leadership team. So that's what my book's all about. I'm also coming out with a Christian leadership planner that helps Christians stay on track with the assignment and the call of God on their life. And then yeah, Moses and I are partnering together. We're launching our mastermind in January and that's gonna be sick. You got to apply to be a

part of that. Can't wait. We'll link it below. Maybe you said in January it launches? Yeah, January. January. So this might air before that. But we'll find a way to integrate that. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I love how you how open you are, honestly, because you respect other religions beliefs,

even though you're Christian, obviously. But yeah, I got a lot of friends that are Buddhist, you know, Muslim, like, you know, and not everyone is ready to accept my worldview. Not everyone is ready to have a relationship with God, the way that I would say it. But if and when they are ready, like I grew up Catholic, like I believed in God,

but I didn't become like a full-blown Christian and surrender my life to Christ until I was 19. And I thank God that I had people that were in my life that when I had questions, could answer them, that I could go to. And so Christianity is not about forcing a religion on people, it's about like, I have a real relationship with God

and I love you and I wanna serve you and I'm gonna help you no matter what you believe, no matter what your sexual orientation is, no matter if you're a Democrat or a Republican, I don't care. It's like, I wanna love you, I wanna serve you. And if and when you're ready to find out about my God and my relationship with God,

I wanna be here to help tell you about it. Right, I love it. Well, where can people find you, Nicole? It's been fun. Yeah, thanks, Sean. Yeah, so Connected with Nicole is my Instagram and connectedwithnicole.com. If people wanna set up a strategy call

or find out about all the things, they can text the word Nicole to 33777. We'll link below. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, thanks, Sean. Yeah, thanks for watching, guys. Check out the links below and I'll see you next time.