Digital Social Hour - The Padlock Armory: Shocking Truths From the Outlaw Biker War | George Christie DSH #532

Episode Date: July 3, 2024

🔒 The Padlock Armory: Shocking Truths From the Outlaw Biker War 🚨 Tune in now to uncover the jaw-dropping revelations from the infamous Outlaw Biker War! In this explosive episode of Digital Social Hour, Sean Kelly dives deep with George Christie, the longest-serving president of the Hell's Angels. From deadly conflicts to hidden armories guarded only by a padlock, this episode is packed with shocking truths and insider secrets that you won't believe! 😱 Don't miss out on this captivating conversation where George spills the beans on the underworld of biker gangs, Hollywood myths, and the real-life drama that puts "Sons of Anarchy" to shame. How did a padlock fail to protect deadly armories? How did George navigate the treacherous world of outlaw bikers and law enforcement? Find out all this and more! 🔥 Join the conversation, watch now, and subscribe for more insider secrets. 📺 Hit that subscribe button and stay tuned for more eye-opening stories on the Digital Social Hour with Sean Kelly! 🚀 #DigitalSocialHour #SeanKelly #Podcast #GeorgeChristie #OutlawBikerWar #Hell’sAngels #Bandidos #TrueCrime #ShockingRevelations #WatchNow #ScandinavianBikerWar #SeanKelly #HellsAngelsHistory #LocalMilitia #Bandidos CHAPTERS: 00:00 - Intro 00:44 - George Christie joins the show 03:10 - How accurate are movies about biker gangs 05:17 - George Christie beats the FBI 08:12 - What are you up to now 09:22 - George Christie goes to war in Scandinavia 14:28 - Why did you leave the Hell’s Angels 18:15 - Did the RICO charges make you guys quiet down 21:50 - Michael Franzese 25:24 - Your Informant 26:50 - Your Prison Sentence 32:37 - Your Stress Today 35:37 - Sonny Barger 37:00 - Leadership 42:19 - Assassination attempts 44:53 - Forgiving Sonny Barger 49:30 - Making decisions as a leader 52:13 - No snitching code 56:25 - Trump 59:02 - Women 1:01:11 - Media 1:03:18 - Defund the police 1:05:10 - BLM movement 1:07:00 - War with the Mongols 1:09:00 - George's podcast APPLY TO BE ON THE PODCAST: https://www.digitalsocialhour.com/application BUSINESS INQUIRIES/SPONSORS: [e-mail] GUEST: George Christie https://www.instagram.com/georgechristiejr/ https://www.patreon.com/georgechristie https://www.georgechristie.com/subscribe.html SPONSORS: Deposyt Payment Processing: https://www.deposyt.com/seankelly LISTEN ON: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/digital-social-hour/id1676846015 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5Jn7LXarRlI8Hc0GtTn759 Sean Kelly Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seanmikekelly/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A big war erupted, I think 14 or 15 deaths. Bandidos were very strong here in the United States. I went over there to find out what the problem was, and I found out something very interesting. On the outskirts of town, they have an armory to equip the local militia. Wow. And the only thing protecting those armories from entry is a padlock. Huh. protecting those armories from entry is a padlock.

Wherever you guys are watching this show, I would truly appreciate it if you follow or subscribe. It helps a lot with the algorithm. It helps us get bigger and better guests, and it helps us grow the team. Truly means a lot. Thank you guys for supporting, and here's the episode. Alright, guys. We got George Christie here, the longest-serving president we got George Christie here the longest serving

president ever of Hells Angels. Thanks for coming on man. Pleasure to be here. 35 years. Yeah 35 years in Ventura and I was also a leader in Los Angeles. In the 70s I was a leader of the Los Angeles Hells Angels and in the late 70s I kind of handpicked a crew of guys and moved up to Ventura, which was my hometown. I was born there, raised there. I wanted to go back there. Was that one of the biggest chapters in terms of member count? Well, we were up to 25 guys. And you say 25 guys, a lot of the audience might go to 25 guys. That's not very many. But for a Hells Angel charter, it's a lot of guys. What you have to understand is you've got 25 members, and then they may have 20 friends that become close. They develop a relationship within that charter.

So it's staggered out. Yeah. And you had to get approval to start your own charter from the – I did. I sort of got approval. I grabbed the guys, moved up there, and said this is what we're doing. And I did get some resistance. But I found through my tenure in the club,

if you were determined to do something and you had the balls to do it, you could get away with it. Was there a lot of infighting within the Hells Angels? Initially, no. We were too busy fighting other clubs. When I got in the club, everything was pretty peaceful on the West Coast. There was a conflict in the East with a club called the Outlaws. And in fact, I think Mike Nichols, the director, just has a movie premiering this month.

I don't know if you've heard about it, called The Bike Riders. And it's about the Outlaws. Certainly they don't use their patch, but it was a book by, I can't remember the guy's name but he was an outlaw and they took a book of his uh photographs and uh created this movie out of it and tim harding i think is his name he's a pretty prominent actor and a good actor and a few other

people in it i'm not familiar with. But I have a feeling it's going to be a decent movie. Yeah. How accurate are these movies and shows about these biker gangs, you think? Well, some of them are not accurate at all. You know, Sons of Anarchy was very dramatic. I mean, these guys killed six or seven guys every episode. I mean, you know, you start killing people like that,

you know, you'd be classified as serial killers. You'll probably have so much heat from the police on you. It's just not feasible. Yeah. And the show was very popular. I think it had six, seven seasons. Super popular. Yeah. People would six, seven seasons. Super popular. Yeah.

People would not stop talking about that show years ago. Yeah. You know, in 2011, I got indicted. And during the jury of Vordere, one of the questions I made up was and asked, the judge allowed me to ask the jurors, was do you watch Sons of Anarchy? Really? Yeah. And the next question, if they said, yes, we do watch Sons of Anarchy, the next question was, do you believe what you're seeing in each episode?

And do the leaders have full knowledge and responsibility for the actions of the members? Because that was the dilemma I was in. Two of my members went rogue and firebombed tattoo shops that sprung up in town. This was in the city of Ventura. And they took it upon themselves to firebomb them. It was kind of a cavalier behavior, and not very professional, because they got caught.

So I'm kind of being a smartass, but there's some truth in what I'm saying as well. Yeah. And I had actually told people in an official meeting, leave the tattoo shops alone. I think this is a setup. One of them were working with the FBI, and they had complete camera systems around there. Wow. And that's how they busted these guys. They saw them actually firebombing the buildings.

Dang, and when was this? They had cameras? Yeah, the event took place in 2007. My indictment came in 2011. Oh, they took their time with that one. They did take their time. I beat the FBI in 1986. I went to trial for murder for hire. They said I ordered somebody's murder. And so I had that charge. In addition, I had a conspiracy charge. In 1986, it's the first time I'd ever been in jail. Spent a year in federal prison awaiting a trial to come up.

And, you know, the dynamics of everything had changed. It just, the whole court system and whatnot. How did it change? Well, you know, I fought my, and I beat it in 1986. And I think that the – I had tenure, like you said, a long tenure in the Hells Angels as a leader. And they just had a dossier on me of alleged things, suspected things. And, you know, they have a 98 percent conviction rate. You know, they take you to trial, they're going to get you.

I mean, you know, look what certainly wasn't a federal case, but, you know, look what happened to former President Trump yesterday. Right. I mean, you know, 34 counts. He's a felon now. That's crazy. Like myself. So he can't run for president anymore. No, he can.

Oh, he can? He can run for president. It's interesting. I was in a conversation with my wife, Beverly, and with my youngest son, Finn, and that provision is not in the Constitution. And, you know,

why was it left out? You know, perhaps because the founding fathers of this country were actually outlaws. And if they had lost the Revolutionary War, they all would have been tried and hung. Wow. There's no doubt about it. I mean, they went against King George, and maybe that's why that provision is not in there.

But he can run for president again, and he has a very good chance of winning. I think he'll win this time. He very well may. Yeah. And I know you said on Michael's show you weren't a fan of him. No, I'm not a big fan of Trump, but I don't like him being persecuted and prosecuted selectively. I think that politics, that's standard practice, what he did. I mean, he's running for an office, highest office in the land. Why would he want the fact that there was infidelity in his marriage to become part of the political process?

It's nobody's business as far as I'm concerned. It's his business. I don't like Trump, but I don't like Biden either. But you're poison, right? Perhaps I should run. It's his business. You know, I don't like Trump, but I don't like Biden either. Pick your poison, right? Perhaps I should run. You might have to, man. These days, what are you up to, man? You feeling good?

Well, yeah, I'm doing real good. I'm writing another book. I've got three books out. I'm writing another book. You know, I did a stage play. I actually did a stage play here in Las Vegas in 2018. Wow. Two hours.

I helped write it with another guy. So I went across the country doing that, and I got one of my books optioned. I went to Spain for three years, and, of course, COVID came, and the production just optioned. I went to Spain for three years. And of course, COVID came. And the production just halted. So I kind of languished over there, trying to decide what I was going to do. And I came back in 2022, I think. I left in 2019.

I came back in 2022. And, you know, I did a TV show for the Danish network over there. It's on European HBO now. The Rise and Fall of the Danish Hells Angels. And it's about the bike war in Scandinavia. I don't know if you're even familiar with it. No, I didn't know about that war. It was a horrendous bike war. It started, the first one was in the late 70s, early 80s.

It ended, and then it sprung up again in the 82 or 83, no, 92 or 93, the Hells Angels were taking exception with a bike club called the Banditos. The Banditos were recruiting people that were known enemies of the Hells Angels in the scandinavian countries wow so a big war erupted i think you know 14 or 15 deaths 92 people got wounded jeez i mean it was it was hot and heavy they were shooting it out uh in the uh international airport wow at the airport shoot out at the airport holy crap couple one guy got killed and another guy was wounded. And everybody seemed very well armed. I took a plane over there. I went to Amsterdam to try to find out what was transpiring because I didn't want it bleeding over into the United.

I'm so much a peacenik. I had self-serving reasons. I didn't want it bleeding over into the United States because the banditos were very strong here in the United States. They were what the FBI considers one of the big four. You've got the Hells Angels, the banditos, the outlaws, and the Mongols and the pagans. It's kind of gotten a little bit bigger.

But I went over there to find out what the problem was, and I found out something very interesting. I was trying to figure out how are these guys getting so well-equipped because, you know, guns aren't real popular in the European countries. It seems that they have strict rules and whatnot. And each town in these Scandinavian countries, on the outskirts of town, they have an armory to equip the local militia. Wow. And the only thing protecting those armories from entry is a padlock.

So people were cutting the locks, going in, getting the rockets, the machine guns, the grenades, the plastics and whatnot. And, you know, after the shootout, the banditos retaliated and shot some rockets into one of the Hells Angel clubhouses. Jeez. I mean, it was really, really hot and heavy. It took several years to, you know, reach a peace. The Scandinavian government petitioned our government to allow a Hells Angel who had a murder conviction

come to the United States. And in addition, they petitioned to have one of the Bandido leaders, who was also a felon. I don't know what his crime was. But he came as well. They got special visas at the request of the Scandinavian government. The U.S. government usually won't let felons into this country. But they petitioned them. They got permission.

And we had a big peace talk in Spokane, Washington. We actually had a number that if any law enforcement personnel interfered, that they were to call this number that we had, and they would be told to stand down to allow us to negotiate this. We had a big meeting, all-day-long meeting. Blondie and Jim, Blondie's a Hells Angel, probably the most powerful Hells Angel in Europe at the time, and a gentleman named Jim from the Bandidos, you know, he was his equal. He, along with Blondie, flew back to Europe and they had a televised piece. Holy crap. They televised the meeting?

They televised the signing of the peace treaty and shaking hands. The politicians were there and whatnot. But there's a great documentary. It's six or eight episodes. I can't remember how many episodes. But it's a Danish production. It's on – get it on Roku, I think. Yeah, I got to check that out.

Yeah, check it out. It's The Rise and Fall of the Hells Angels. Did that peace agreement end up being honored by both sides? Yeah, you know, there's been some conflicts. When I was in Spain, I partied with the Banditas a couple of times. I never partied with the Hells Angels because I'm at odds with them now because of my departure from the club. But I did see them and just had a cordial nod.

But it's still holding. I mean, there are flare-ups here and there, but like any peace accord, problems always arise. Yeah, I know it took you two years to decide to leave the Hells Angels. It was a big decision for you. Yeah, it was. I had worked really hard on pulling all the clubs together. At one time, we had a moratorium on the violence with the outlaws, the banditos, the Mongols. The only club that really didn't participate in it was the Pagans, kind of longtime arch enemies of the Hells Angels. They're from your area, I believe.

Oh, Jersey? Philadelphia and New Jersey. Oh, Jersey? Philadelphia and New Jersey. Oh, wow. Yeah. Very strong in that area. But I just, you know, I'd went to the meeting. I'd reached a point in time when I felt that we had become the people we rebelled against. And when I got in the club, you know, I stepped into that world in 1966. And it was kind of a free-thinking culture. It was very esoteric, youic, very small at the time.

But maybe attribute part of it to Sons of Anarchy's popularity. I mean, it's everywhere now. It's all over the world. People trying to emulate the outlaw lifestyle. I'm not sure they understand really what it was all about initially. It was initially about live and let live type culture, society, and as things progressed, it was a pretty easy living until the late 70s. 1977 is when all kind of hell broke loose on the West Coast.

We got into it with the Los Angeles Hells Angels, got into it with the Los Angeles Mongols. And, you know, that battle still rages. I'm not sure it'll ever be. It still goes on right now? It still goes on right now. Holy crap. Yeah.

It's 40 years. It's been 40 years. Or even 50, right? I'm going on 50 now. Who's counting? Yeah. That's insane. Yeah, it is insane.

And, you know, the outlaw bike world has become a reflection of society. And it mirrors a lot of the things society's doing. And I don't know what the future holds in store. I'm not even sure what the future holds in store for our country. You know, it seems to be a political chaos right now. Right. Well, it seems like the mafia taking a step back. Everyone's getting arrested.

I mean. Sure. I mean. Is it similar with the gang, the motorcycle stuff? Well, you know, in 1978, they tried to use the racketeering charge against the Hells Angels in the Bay Area up in San Francisco, Oakland, and they were not successful. They had two hung juries, and ultimately the young prosecutor who later went after Trump, what the heck's his name?

I can't think of his name. I know who you're talking about. You know who I'm talking about his name? I can't think of his name. I know who you're talking about. You know who I'm talking about? Moe. I can't think of his name. I guess I'm getting old. It was a while ago. Yeah.

But it didn't work on us. The jury didn't buy it. They came at us later. It was the feds again about three years later with Operation Rough Rider that started in New York City. They targeted a gentleman back there who was the leader of the New York City Hells Angels, Sandy Alexander. And, you know, got a lot of guys convicted. Was that a RICO?

Well, it wasn't really RICO. It was they had failed in the Bay Area case, so they went after them individually. They were federal charges, but they weren't RICO charges, and they got several convictions. Wow. So that made you guys kind of quiet down a bit. Well, I think it not only makes you quiet down, it also educates you. And I guess if, you know, you have that type of scrutiny, you know, you either straighten up or become a better criminal.

Right. My position's always been the Hells Angels, along with other outlaw bike clubs, are not criminal organizations. They're organizations that have criminals in them. And, you know, like the Senate does, House of Representatives, doctors, lawyers, whoever it may be. Every industry. Yeah, absolutely. Even podcasts.

Yeah, probably some criminal podcasters. What was the number one reason you saw people joining? Was it for the money? Was it for brotherhood? I think initially it was for the love of motorcycles and brotherhood, and that's something that seems to have gone by the wayside. And, you know, it's interesting you bring that up. I just did an eight-part show for A&E called Secrets of the Hells Angels,

and all they focus on is criminal activity. They never talk about motorcycles. They never talk about brotherhood. They never talk about what the initial intent was, which you have to understand, the whole outlaw bike culture was birthed after World War II. These guys came back from the European theater and the Pacific theater, probably suffering from undiagnosed PTSD,

and they kind of probably lost direction in what they were doing. And they started buying motorcycles, riding motorcycles, and all these little small esoteric clubs started popping up around Southern California, probably the same on the East Coast. You know, I'm speaking for the West Coast because that's where I was from, and that's what I watched even as a young child in the 50s. You know, I would see outlaw bikers occasionally, and, you know, that's what first interested me in that whole lifestyle. Yeah.

It was very romantic looking and, you know, very powerful looking. And my first experience seemed like it really pissed off the citizens. Yeah? And so I got kind of a kick out of it. What did you do? Well, you know, I'm standing on a corner with my father, and probably 1955, 1956, I'm 9 years old, maybe 10 years old, I don't know. And some guy comes up on a chopper,

you know, chopped Harley. You know, he's got the old, the cutoff vest and he's got, you know, greasy Levi's motorcycle boots riding a Harley with high bars on it. And everything, time seemed to stop. Everybody seemed to focus on him. And I really identified with him. And, you know, when he took off out of that signal, the guy I was talking to spit on the ground. And he looked at me and my father, and he said, that's your America. And I thought to myself, yeah, that's my America. Wow. And so it was really an impression on me. Yeah. So that

was a goal to join for you for a while. Yeah. And for 10 years and you know, that was, like I said, in the mid fifties, 1966, uh, I buy my first motorcycle, bought the whole motorcycle for two, 200 or 250 bucks. And, uh, you know what I mean? You can't even get a bike service nowadays for that price. You can't even buy a bicycle for 250 not a good one no that's crazy times have changed man yeah it sounds like it was really pure back then it was and and that's uh what attracted me to it and i think that's one of the reasons i stepped out of it but you know i still continue to live that lifestyle. I do it through my own writings, television appearances. I have my own podcast.

I do podcasts for other people. As you said, you saw me on Michael Frenchy's podcast. Michael's a good guy. He would be a great one to come on. I saw you on Vlad, too. Did you? Okay. Michael and I were in prison together.

Really? 1986. Wow. I didn't know that. Yeah. We were in prison together on Eternal Island. He was there. I think he had stolen $10 billion in gas taxes from the federal government.

They were very mad at him. But that's where I first met a lot of, you know, I guess suspected mafia members, I'll call them. There was a lot in that prison? There was a lot in that prison. And when I came home, I had a lot of their numbers in my, and this will updating myself now, in my Rolodex. You know, I of their numbers in my, and this will updating myself now, in my Rolodex. You know, I had their numbers.

You roll the thing around, you don't want to Rolodex. I've heard of it. I didn't know it was an actual thing though. Yeah, Rolodex is a card you put numbers in and you roll it and it flips through the numbers that you have. And the cops raided my house

and they got ahold of my Rolodex, and there were a bunch of mob members in the Rolodex. So they released it to the newspapers. They told the newspapers, hey, we raided Christy's house, and we found a bunch of suspected mob members, social clubs, and personal numbers. So the newspapers called me and asked me. They said, you know, the cops just raided your house. How do you explain these, you know,

mafia-related phone numbers in your Rolodex? And I said, well, you know, I'll tell you. I said, I also have Sean Penn's number, Mickey Rourke's, and Robert Carradine. I said, but that doesn't make me an actor. So that was my... That's a good answer. I also have Sean Penn's number, Mickey Rorts, and Robert Carradine. I said, but that doesn't make me an actor. So that was my – That's a good answer. I gave them that little byline.

Yeah, that's funny. Why'd they raid you? You know what? I don't really remember. Wow. They were raiding me all the time. They didn't have to give a reason? Well, a lot of times they seal it, you know, and you petition to have the warrant unsealed,

and they fight it because usually they're protecting an informant. Oh, so someone snitched. Someone snitched, and they write it up in the report, submit it to the judge. The judge goes, oh, yeah, you probably better go in and look around in their house. And then they say, we want to protect our information, so we want to seal the warrant. And so they seal it, and then you petition them to unseal it, which they never do. Same thing when I get letters from the Department of Justice that they were listening to my phone. You'd have this dance with them. You'd write them a letter. Same thing when I'd get letters from the Department of Justice that they were listening to my phone.

You'd have this dance with them. You'd write them a letter. They'd say, well, it's an ongoing investigation. We can't tell you exactly what's going on. But it's just a little game they play. Absolutely. Did you ever find out of an informant under you? Well, yeah, because I had several testify against me over the years. You know, I've been indicted three times.

Like I mentioned earlier, I am a multiple felon. My first case in 1986, I beat. But in 2001, I had a 59-count state racketeering charge, and the lawyers, including my daughter, all felt it was prudent to take a deal. They offered me time served. I had spent a year in solitary confinement waiting for the case to come up, and they offered me time served in probation. So it was almost like the offer you couldn't refuse. I mean, it would have been really stupid to fight it another three or four years. In solitary too, that's tough. Yeah. And that's why they put me in there. That was part of their bargaining chip. It didn't work out the way they wanted. The 59 counts collapsed under its own weight.

Then, like I said, they came back again in 2011. That was an eight-count indictment. And I pled that one out as well because the last three counts, six, seven, and eight, were mandatory minimums. Are you familiar with that term, mandatory minimums? You have to serve a minimum time, right? Yeah, and the minimum time was life. Holy crap. So, I mean, it doesn't get you much to deal with.

So my daughter, it was pretty interesting. Judge Wu, who we were talking about off camera, was one of the most interesting judges I've ever been around. He basically told the government, you don't have a case here. Wow. And he said, you want this to be your career case. You want to put Mr. Christie away. But you don't have the evidence.

And he goes, I'm suggesting you entertain the thought of a plea bargain. And I was sitting over at the defense table all smug. And then he turned to me and he pointed. And you, Mr. Christie, he said, God only knows what you've gotten away with. He goes, I think you better get down there and negotiate. So they sent us to Judge Walter's courtroom, and we negotiated a deal. I wound up doing two years on house arrest, and then I went to Texas prison for a year. Wow. That's where you met Michael?

No, I met Michael in 1986. This was in 2013, 2014. I did a year just outside of El Paso, Texas. Was that a level four prison? No, it was a minimum level, but it was run like a medium-level prison. All the old prisoners were being transferred there, guys in there. I was almost 70 when I went to prison there. So they ran it like a medium because there was a lot of white-collar criminals in there, and they had them mixed in with traditional-type prison population guys. So there were people getting knifed.

Holy crap. Yeah, it was pretty serious. They had wind flags so they could tell what the wind was if they were going to shoot somebody. Damn. You know, it was run like a regular medium to high prison. And was that before you left or after? That was after I left. Oh, so you were fearing if there were members in there too, probably.

Well, you know, it's interesting. I did go there. The Banditos ran that prison for the Outlaw Bight community, and they were waiting for me when I got there. Oh, yeah? In a good way? Well, the guards told me, they go, you know, the Banditos are waiting out there for you, George. And they said, if you want, we can put you in protective custody.

And protective custody is the worst thing. It's an insult. Really? It really means you lost your nerve. Oh, man. I probably would have taken it. No, you wouldn't have. No?

No, you wouldn't have done it. So I said, no, I'm going to go out in the yard. I'm going to face these guys. And they said, no, I'm going to go out in the yard. I'm going to face these guys. And they said, well, we don't know what's going to happen. And I went out in the yard, and I happened to know the leader. And him and I wound up sharing a cell for a year. It was an interesting year. I got to deep insights in the politics of the banditos.

And there were a couple of Hell's Angel associates there, but nobody bothered me. I walked the yard every day and did my own thing. So you're at peace with all the former? Well, I don't know. I live in the same town as my former charter. I see them on occasion. I live an open life.

I would never hide from anyone. But I probably not the most popular guy with my former brothers, but it is what it is. Well, a lot of them have moved on or passed away now, right?

Well, yeah, I'm kind of the only one around from my era. I could probably count one around from my era i could probably count the guys from my area on one hand all the rest of them are dead so i've outlived uh all my brothers and i've outlived all my enemies so to speak uh you know but uh you know i've been uh home from prison i got home end of 2014 did three three years on paper, you know, like a parole probation type thing. And, you know, so I'm pretty much free, everything on my own. Nice. You know, recently got married again.

Congrats. Thank you. In fact, we're here celebrating our one-year anniversary. Let's go. Yeah, so it's cool. Beverly and I, you know, people think, well, you know, they met so late in life, but Beverly and I have actually known each other since we were 12. Holy crap.

So we've known each other a long time. Beverly was also a witness in my first trial in 1986. She was a character witness. That's a real one right there. Yeah. So I was friends with her and her husband. She was married for 57 years to a good friend of mine named Bob. And she's an old school girl and just right up my alley.

Nice. So Bob passed away? Bob passed away. Beverly was single. I was single. And I said, hey, why don't we just go out together? And hoping we've got another 20, 25 years. But I don't know, Bill. She don't want to live that long. Yeah? Yeah, I'm going for 100. 100's a good number. Yeah, I'm going for 100. I saw Willie Nelson a couple of nights ago on TV, his 90th birthday.

I've known Willie for a long time. He's getting up there, man, but he's not too old to rock and roll. He had Keith Richards on there. Wow. It was a pretty cool little party. I can see it, man. You've got a good routine. You walk five miles every morning.

Yeah, every day. That's 10,000 steps right there. Yeah, it is 10,000 steps. That's my goal for each day. And I got a little circuit training program I do and some stretching and whatnot. So I'm feeling good, but I'm not the guy in charge. Yeah. You got a lot of stress in your earlier years. I did, but I'm hoping that maybe as I age more and more, it'll seem like nothing to me.

I mean, spend a year in solitary confinement. There's some stress, my friend. Oh, I bet. Yeah, there's some stress. You know, it's the oldest form of torture. Not only was I doing solitary confinement, but they also had me on a disciplinary diet at times. Jeez. me on a disciplinary diet at times jeez i pissed off some of the guards with my uh smart alec remarks and uh they give me a disciplinary diet which you've had twice a day they feed you just

enough calorie and carbs to sustain you and they feed you in the morning and they feed you again at night it's uh you're starving you're starving all the, and you don't have any commissary. They take away all your commissary. I had 350 pieces of mail turned away. Holy crap. You couldn't even talk to anyone. No, no. No phone privileges, no talking, no commissary privileges. The only thing they leave you in that solitary confinement situation is a Bible.

They do leave you with a Bible. I read the Bible a lot. And I discovered mankind has been punishing themselves for centuries. Yeah? Yeah, well, you know, you read the Bible, man. It's all about conflict, war, duplicity, a lot of sex in there. Really? In the Bible? In the Bible. I had no idea. I never read it. Well, you should you know it's it's you know i don't live my life by it uh daily but i think it's a good uh foundation for people

to take and pick and choose like you know i'm a martial artist and uh i always you know lean towards the martial arts that uh you know use the stuff that uh could be used in an actual combat situation. And the same thing with the Bible. Read the Bible. Take the things that are beneficial to you. I see it as a metaphor for living. I don't believe Jesus Christ is my personal Savior. Hope you don't get any hate mail over that.

I don't think I will. I've had on a lot of anti-religious people. Okay. But I'm not anti-religious. I just have my own ideas about things. And I try to get along with everybody. Of course, even for an old man, I got a temper still. Yeah? Yeah. I mean, that's part of my personality. And I think that's what not only made me a good Hells Angel, I think it made me a good leader. And I had a military background. I was in the Marine Corps.

And I worked for the Department of Defense for 10 years until they found out I was a Hells Angel. Once they found out I was a Hells Angel, they were going to strip me of my top secret security clearance. Wow. Because it was seen as a criminal organization. Yeah, so I just walked away. I resigned, as I did, and became a full-time Hells Angel.

Sonny Barger was kind of running the club at the time. Was this the LA or the Ventura? He was in Oakland. Sonny Barger, Oakland Hells Angel. He became the face, kind of in the name and the voice of the Hells Angels in the 60s, 70s. And then in the 80s, he got throat cancer. And they cut out his larynx. And he seemed to be hesitant to do interviews anymore. He had a voice box and whatnot.

Are you interested in coming on the Digital Social Hour podcast as a guest? Well, click the application link below in the description of this video. We are always looking for cool stories, cool entrepreneurs to talk to about business and life. Click the application link below, and here's the episode, guys. So a gentleman named Irish O'Farrell and myself he was a former Los Angeles Hells Angels as well we kind of wound up doing the publicity and statements and whatnot in the media got it kind of the

power base kind of shifted yeah and you and Sonny had a lot of problems we did have a lot of problems we were at odds fact, my latest book I've been working on, Crossing the Rubicon, deals with my book, Exile on Front Street, kind of gives you an overview and a linear perception of what my life was in the Hells Angels. But Crossing the Rubicon gets very deep, and it kind of puts you in the room. It's kind of like you're hanging out with me and Sonny and you can see the conflicts. I explained the conflicts at great length. I explained his political position and I explained my political position and my vision and his vision were nothing alike. Yeah. As a leader,

you got to have a vision. If you're going to be a good leader, you have to have a vision vision. If you're going to be a good leader, you have to have a vision for the direction you're going. You have to have people that support that vision. If you don't have people supporting that vision, your power as a leader dissipates. We talked about Trump earlier. That was one of the things I don't care for about Trump.

I feel like he divides people. My position, a leader should unify people and get them all heading in the same direction. And that's my objection to him. How do you feel like he divides people? Well, I think you watch him. I think he speaks for himself. You know, he's very divisive. You know, he hates conflict.

He liked conflict. You know, he's got a nickname for everybody, which I kind of think is funny, Sleepy Joe Biden. That's a pretty good one. You know, I forget some of his other nicknames. But, you know, he's, you know, he was a very popular TV personality, and I think being a TV personality and a leader are not the same thing. He certainly can become popular on TV, but I think part of his popularity was his conflicts he created. Right, and drama.

Yeah, yeah. You know what? Like I say, but people seem to like him. I think there's a good chance he's going to be the leader again. And so, you know, I've been under other leaders

I didn't care for and survived. Yeah, I try not to place too much importance on it. I just control what I can, you know? Yeah, and that's what you have to do. How old are you?

27. So you're 27. I just turned 77. And I've seen so many different things. I have a child that's in her mid-50s, and I have a child who's 20. Wow. So I get a real view of how things have changed. But it's almost like it's making this 360.

My youngest son is just amazing. He's a math whiz. He was initially diagnosed with autism. Didn't speak until he was five, late age of five. And since I've been back, Beverly and I have kind of like together rediscovered him. Wow. I was in Spain those years, and I didn't get to communicate with him only by WhatsApp. We would message every day.

And occasionally I would call. I don't like talking on the phone, but occasionally I'd call him. Because it's tapped? Yeah, just a little habit. Old habits die hard with me. That's an interesting statement. You hear yourself in a courtroom, and then the judge orders you to explain, what do you mean by that on that tape recorder?

You're very careful how you choose your words from that point on. You know, cops came after me so many times, and I think that that education I got in the 80s from the FBI, you know, watching me and ultimately indicting me made me very aware and made me – they made me a better Hells Angel. They certainly made me a more cautious Hells Angel. So I guess I owe it all to the feds. Yeah. I'm pretty cautious on the phone.

I heard someone tapping me one time. Yeah. Well, I'm sure – I don't know. You start saying provocative things. You've got a big media platform, correct? Yeah. Looked very big to me. And I've had on controversial guests, too.

Yeah, so that stuff drags along with you. They tapped Tucker Carlson. Sure. Even his Signal app, which is supposed to be anonymous, they got in that. Well, it wouldn't surprise me. Well, I mean, look, Dennis Rodman went to China. They crucified him. Tucker Carlson went to Putin, you know,

and that same group of people, I think, tried to persecute him as well, you know. Hey, I'd love to go talk to Putin. I think it's important to hear from everyone. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, a good leader listens as much as he speaks. And, you know, I created this amnesty with all these outlaw bike clubs. You know, I petitioned the outlaws, the Mongols, the banditos.

Even petitioned the pagans. Didn't get too far with them. But, you know, when you live your life thinking that someone's going to possibly end it by violence, you know, you try to get beyond that. Yeah. You know, like people ask me, you having a good day? Yeah, nobody's shooting at me. I'm having a great day today. Yeah, you've had a couple assassination attempts on your life.

That's correct. You know, and, you know, Taco and I were negotiating. We were, I think we respected each other. I even liked the guy. Yeah. Which club was Taco from? He's from the Outlaws. He was the international leader of the Outlaws.

And ultimately, the peace talks wore down. He was getting pressure from the really violent guys in his club, and he put a murder contract on me. Wow. You know, the guys came to Ventura to assassinate me. Was it real? Yeah, it was real. You can look it up online. Harry Bowman versus the United States or whatnot.

But the police had a moral obligation to petition me and say, hey, the outlaws were here. They got arrested. They had a gun. They had a map. They had pictures pictures and they were coming after you wow uh you know taco uh shortly after that one of his guys turned on him and they

got him for racketeering really he did uh life damn died in prison that's terrible 2019 when i was in spain i got word that he had passed him and i talked after he went in prison. That's terrible. 2019, when I was in Spain, I got word that he had passed. Him and I talked after he went to prison. We talked after he put the murder contract on me. Did you ask him about it? I did ask him about it. And he said, well, you know, it was nothing personal, George. I said, well, I never took it personal, Taco.

But I said, hey, I've got to ask you something. And this is interesting. I want to back up a little bit. The reason he called me is he wanted my daughter to assist his lawyer in his appeal oh yeah he wanted out you know and uh i thought you know why the hell not i don't want him in jail for anything that uh wow had to do with me so you forgave him for that yeah sure you know uh and i asked him i said so you're doing life on the racketeering is that correct because that's right and i said, so you're doing life on the racketeering, is that correct?

And he goes, that's right. And I said, you're doing 10 years for the murder plot against me? And he goes, yeah, that's right. And I said, well, what are you going to do first, the 10 years or the life? He told me to go to hell. And we laughed. And, you know, that was the last time I talked to him. That was in 2003 or 2004, maybe.

I had just beat that big racketeering state case. He wanted some insight into what my daughter did, and how she did it. She works miracles. Wow. Still a criminal lawyer, practices law. Savage. Yeah.

Walking in there, man, with your daughter, you know this lawyer's not going to sell you. Yeah, that's awesome, man. You raised her well. Yeah, really great. Very proud of her. And I'm proud of all my children. Yeah, and it sounds like you don't hold grudges to be able to forgive someone

that attempted a murder on you. No, you know, it's interesting. The night before Sonny died, I got a phone call, and that's how my new book starts off. That's what inspired me to write this book. And a guy called. Nobody from the club was supposed to talk to me. Sonny put a rule out.

Nobody talks to Christy anymore. But somebody called me, and they said, you know, he said, you recognize my voice? And I said, yeah. And he goes, you know, Ralph doesn't have a long. Ralph is Sonny's real name. That's what his friends used to call him. And he said, if you're going to reconcile, he goes, you know, Ralph doesn't have long. Ralph is Sonny's real name. That's what his friends used to call him. And he said, if you're going to reconcile, he goes, you better do it quick.

And I stayed up that night thinking about it. And I didn't reach out. And I don't think it would have done any good if I did. But he died in the morning. Oh, wow. And he had been at odds with him probably since the mid-80s. And you figure we were at odds with each other, but we were still both Hell's Angels. And let me give you some insight into the kind of guy he is. In 2005, him and I were barely talking. And were you president at this time? I was still president.

And he was a member in Arizona. He had moved to Arizona because of his health. And I think there was other reasons as well that I'm going to explore in my book. But I was having my 30-year anniversary. And the big buzz at the party was, will Sonny Barger show up? So we were all partying, heavy partying, eating

mushrooms and drinking, going wild. So there was word through the party, they go, Sonny's here. And everybody kind of stopped because him and I were at odds. What you have to understand, one of my guys got killed in Arizona.

One of his guys got killed. The rumor in law enforcement was that we were killing each other's people. I completely deny that. Sonny walked into the party and it was like time stood still. And I thought, I don't know what he's going to do. And I walked up to him, and we leaned in and hugged each other. And I said to him, I said, this is totally the kind of guy he is. And him and I were mad at each other.

I said, I didn't think you were coming, Ralph. And he said to me, without missing a beat, he said, there's no other place I'd rather be tonight, George. And hugged me, and we shook hands. And then he went into his part of the party, and I went into my part of the party. And later that night, he jumped on his bike and rode back to Arizona. Wow.

It was an interesting night. I think that, you know, I describe it in the book that time said still, and I talk about it on my podcast, but it may have been the mushrooms. I think it might have been. Yeah. You were probably hallucinating. You think he was even there? Well, you know what?

You're the first person. Now I'm starting to doubt myself. No, I think he was even there well you know what you're the first person now i'm starting to doubt myself no i think he was there uh at least uh in flesh i don't know about in spirit yeah that's crazy so that night when you got offered to call him do you regret not calling him you know i have mixed emotions about it because i'll tell you if i would have called him and we would have gotten an argument and he died, they would have blamed me. I feel that. Dang. Long-time enemies, but in the same chapter.

That's an interesting dynamic. Yeah, it was an interesting dynamic. He was 10 years my senior, and I respected him as that, but I didn't agree with him. He did things that I thought were wrong, and I confronted him not only personally but publicly now on social media. I got a pretty decent social media following. I make a remark about Sonny and people.

I get the George Christie haters that go, you wouldn't do that if Sonny was alive. The fact is, and I usually write them back, anything I say about Sonny, I said to his if Sonny was alive. And, you know, the fact is, and I usually write them back, anything I say about Sonny, I said to his face when he was alive. I always confronted him and gave him the opportunity to respond. But, you know, the difference between Sonny and I was Sonny thought the club belonged to him. I always felt I belonged to the club. So that was our different philosophies.

Sounds like a bit of ego. Yeah, he had a big ego. You know, maybe that's what made him a good leader. Yeah. When you were making important decisions, were you talking with the members about it at all, or were you more private? Well, I discussed it with members. I'd like to hear what members had to say, but, you know, I would create a vision in what I felt I could accomplish. As a leader, you've got to set goals that you can accomplish. If you set goals that are unreasonable, not only are you going to fail perception-wise as a leader to the people surrounding you, you're going to fail to yourself.

So I would always set reasonable goals, and some of them were pretty high perhaps as i reflect back but you know trying to have a moratorium on uh violence in a culture full of violence you know you know outlaw bikers are violent right and you know i noticed you you earlier i didn't correct you at the time but you know you said uh use the term gang and that's one of the things we fought for years. That term, we like to call ourselves motorcycle clubs. So if you

run across the motorcycle club, don't call them a gang. That's good to know. It is good to know. They get offended? Yeah, very offended. It's an to know. It is good to know. Did they get offended? Yeah, very offended. Oh, wow. Very offended. And, you know, it's an innocent remark.

And as an outlaw leader, when you're in a dialogue with somebody, is the remark intentional or is it innocent? Right. And, you know, even the members need to learn how to distinguish between the, you know, two types of remarks. Let's say, you know, intentionally disrespectful remark. You know, you're in a bar with some guy and he starts drinking, and a lot of people feel that, wow, I'm going to buy this biker guy a drink so that entitles me to disrespect him.

You know, and that's usually what happens. People come around. They want to hang out with the bikers and see the outlaw bikers, whatever club it may be, hanging out at the bar. They go, man, I want to hang out with them. They do go up, and they buy drinks, and they drink, and they let their mouth overload their asses is what happens. They get called up on it.

Getting punched in the nose in the outlaw culture is nothing. People in everyday walks of life, they get hit in the nose, it turns into a court proceeding. You get in a fight with somebody, you can see you made a comment,

you forgave Taco. It's a violent world I lived in. You have to understand that comes along with the territory. Did you guys have a no snitching code similar to the mafia? Absolutely. With police officers and stuff? Absolutely. No snitching.

That was the one thing I really held against Sonny because he kept saying, I know George is going to wind up snitching on us. And, you know, my comment always was, you know, if I was going to snitch, you guys would be all in prison. So your comment and your posture and position doesn't hold any water because you're still a free man. Right. You know, I mean, I certainly was up there in the political arena for 35 years. You know, I'm a man with a lot of secrets. Yeah, you definitely have some. Yeah. You're going to be taking some to the grave.

I'm going to take them to the grave. Out of respect, though. Yeah. What do you think would have happened if you stayed? I don't know. You know, it's a hypothetical question. Beverly and I talk about it all the time. I think I would try to get the club to have a direction. I think a lot of these bike clubs don't have direction.

I think Taco was a leader that had a direction. I don't know if it was proper at times, but he certainly was taking the club in a direction. There was a guy in the Mongols named Little Davey. I think he had a good vision. And I think at the end, Sonny, I think we said it earlier, he's somewhat a selfish guy. I don't think he cared what happened after he left.

And I think the club maybe needs a new guy like Sonny to step in there. Maybe if I would have stayed, I would have been that guy. I don't know. That's hypothetical. For sure. What was your direction when you were leading? What was the goal?

The goal was, uh, you know, we were fighting wars on five fronts. I thought that that needed to stop. Uh, in addition to fighting all the other bike clubs, we were fighting law enforcement as well. So, you know, I thought that we needed to resolve all those issues. Focus on us. You know, one of the things needed to resolve all those issues, focus on us. You know, one of the things, like, when I first, first time I approached Taco, unannounced, I went to him, took a big chance. You know, anything could happen.

We were, you know, members were getting killed at the time. And I just said, you know, I'm not competing with you. I'm happy being a Hells Angel. I I said I think you're happy being an outlaw and we're all living the same type of lifestyle there's no conflict here we're not in your area, you're not in our area because there were no outlaws in California

I said why don't we just put this stuff behind us the original conflict was over a woman, it was a fight over a woman bruised egos and whatnot. But, you know, I hope that the outlaw bike community survives. I hope that they can move forward. You know, we're 2024 now. I think in the turn of the century, in the 1900s, I think all the traditional outlaws were gone in the 20s.

Wow. I mean, is that true? Yeah. Yeah, they pretty much were gone. And I think that was one of the things I used to say to people at the meetings. I was a West Coast chairman, and I said, you know, as we approach this new century, we don't want the same thing to happen to us that happened to the last group of outlaws. And, you know, America and the United States, they have a real love for outlaws.

They really do. And I think it was because the country was birthed in revolution. I mean, our founding fathers were outlaws. They were revolutionary guys. And I think we stated because the country was birthed in revolution. I mean, our founding fathers were outlaws. They were revolutionary guys. And I think we stated it earlier, you know, if they'd lost the war, they would have been hung. They were outlaws. Yeah. And so I can't imagine America without some old school outlaws.

But, you know, I don't know what may happen. We'll see, man. Yeah. I don't know. I think people are always going to rebel a little bit, though. I think so. We're just happening right now. Who would have thought 20 years ago a convicted felon,

or before he was potentially convicted, could be representing a major political party in this country. I mean, nobody seems to care. You know, you listen to all the politicians on the news this morning. They're saying we're supporting him anyways. And I think, you know, Trump's somehow yielding to nothing. He doesn't care. You know, he just says to hell with you guys. I saw videos of him laughing yesterday. Yeah, he doesn't care. He just says, to hell with you guys.

I saw videos of him laughing yesterday. Yeah, he doesn't care. And look, some people are going to agree with me and some people aren't. The guy's a former president of the United States. Why do we have to make ourselves

look foolish to the rest of the world? Come on. Facts. Yeah, why would we want to make ourselves look foolish? Here's a guy that held the highest office in the land, and now we're going after him because he wanted to keep his private life private. Doesn't matter if he wanted to do it because he didn't want to impact his family

or he didn't want to impact his political campaign. Nobody wants that stuff out in the public. You've got the Kennedysys, you got the Clintons. I mean, this stuff's been going on in politics. I think there's been illegitimate children by presidents. Yeah? So I can't remember his name. He was a president in the 20s.

20s? 1920s, okay. Yeah, I can't remember his name. He had a president in the 20s. 20s? 1920s. Okay. Yeah, I can't remember. He had a kid with another woman. Yeah, out of wedlock. Yeah. So, I mean, this has been going on. I mean, look, look at King David. You know, he was God's chosen people. He was lusting after another woman.

So what did he do? He sends him in the front line to a battle. He knows he's going to get killed so he can, you know, this is a Bible story. So he can have his woman. It's nothing new. It's been going on for centuries. You know, white cane kill able. And, you know, I'm making Bible references.

And like I said, I believe in a higher power. You know, I don't go to church. Church would probably fall down if I stepped in it. Yeah. I just think it's ridiculous. I think we look ridiculous. It is crazy. Were women kind of off limits for you guys?

In what regard? Like harmful, like harming them. Well, you know, that was one of my beefs with this new show on A&E, Secrets of the Hells Angels. They should retitle it Not So Secrets of the Hells Angels because they didn't say anything new, but they made us out to be very monogamistic against women. We beat women. I tell you, I've got to be careful with Beverly.

I think she could take me. I can see that. She's a shark for sure. So you know what I'm saying. I'm being a little bit funny right now. But I respect women. I've always respected women. And I think there's a place for women.

There were women Hells Angels at one time. Oh, there were? Yeah, Sonny sort of pushed them all out of the club. Oh, wow. But, you know, Garbage Head, Mother Ruth, you know, these are famous women Hells Angels. You know, that show didn't talk about any of them. It just said, you know, we beat women, we abuse women. You know what?

I have a daughter. I treat her with respect, and I treat my wife with respect. And Beverly and my first wife, she's deceased now, we're good friends. And you think Cheryl would tolerate that for one minute, Beverly? So anyways, you know, people's private lives are people's private lives. And, you know, don't try to make some salacious episode out of a series about one or two people. If you looked at the statistics

for women abused by outlaw bikers, I'm sure it's much lower than law enforcement. No offense to my police buddies, but we're talking statistics here. I think it's probably higher. Wow.

And I don't know that for a fact. I'm just shooting from the hip. But I'd be willing to debate somebody on that. That's interesting that they wanted to center that around beating women on that show. Well, yeah, that's one of the things that pissed me off. They probably want to just get views, so they're just, you know. Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's all about numbers.

I'll tell you an interesting comment. I did the Outlaw Chronicles back in 2015 or 16. I can't remember what it was. It was a surprise hit for the History Channel. And I talked to one of the executives. He called me the next day and congratulated me because the numbers were so high. And I was the host of the show. I carried the show.

And I said to him very, I guess I sounded like very naive to him. And I said, so how were the numbers? He said, they're really strong, man. I said, were they positive or negative? And he goes, we don't care about that. He goes, we just want numbers. He said, they're really strong, man. I said, were they positive or negative? He goes, we don't care about that. He goes, we just want numbers. He was honest about it. He didn't give a damn. Well, that's the media in general.

Yeah, he goes, we just want numbers. We don't care if it's positive or negative. But I mean, this is a very popular show. It had a billboard on Broadway in New York City and a billboard on Sunset Strip. Wow. It was a big deal.

And the reason the show was so popular was it was told from the outlaw perspective. And this was the first time any show had been told from the outlaw perspective. And when the producers from A&E came to me and said, what do you think the success of the Outlaw Chronicles was? What was it? And I tried to explain that to them, and they just missed the mark. Yeah. I don't know what the numbers were.

I heard they gradually dissipated with each episode. Whether that's true or not, I don't know. That's what I was told. Yeah. I think that's important for any media company, to have someone that lived that lifestyle. Have a say in the show. I certainly need someone from law enforcement there

as well. So we can talk shit to each other. I saw on another show, you actually were on some good terms with certain police officers though, right? Yeah, absolutely. I've got police officers that I consider friends. Police officers are a necessity in society. I, you know, I thought, I was in Spain at the time,

but I thought that one of the most ludicrous cries I heard or mantras I heard was defund the police. I mean, you know what? We lived in a tough part of a town in Ventura. In addition to Ventura, you know, I was a leader in Los Angeles, Los Angeles. And people are not, society are not ready to live their life without law enforcement. They think they may be able to do it. They can't do it. You know, we used to take care of the streets in Ventura.

We had our own area and we kept it clean uh but you know when we had the ability to do it we had not only the power you know we had the reputation as well right so when the hell's angels told you know certain criminal elements in the city of ventura to do certain things. They didn't. They didn't have any choice. And if they didn't, they would be dealt with in our court where there's no appeals and justice is immediate. It's not drawn out over 10 years. And I think that defund the police, that's ridiculous.

It was crazy. Yeah, it's ridiculous. How are you going to defund the police? You know what? These guys are out there risking their ass on the line every day. You don't have to like them. The guys that

are breaking the law, they usually get dealt with ultimately. They get that cavalier attitude. The department finds out about it. They don't want those guys in the department. Yeah, those few years were scary, man. That BLM movement to fund the police and the fires everywhere.

Crazy. That was nuts. You were in Spain during that? I was in Spain that whole time. You didn't miss out, man. No, and, you know, my son was apprising me of what was going on. And he wanted to go to a couple of rallies just to see what was happening or not. You know, I pleaded with him.

I go, look, man, you don't need to go there. He was 17, 18 years old at the time. I go, you don't need to go there, man, and get caught up in something. But, you know, that takes a lot of nerve for a former Hells Angel leader to tell his son to stand down. But you know what? Yeah, police are needed. They're definitely necessary in society.

I was criticized for that as a Hells Angel by a lot of the guys in the club. Cops would pull up, and they'd stop out in front of the clubhouse and i'd walk out there and talk to them to me i just saw it as not only public relations but community relationships right and uh anyways uh it's better to be on good terms with them than bad i'd say i would think so you know certainly you know the police in ventura knew the parameters. They never overstepped their bounds, never asked me anything compromising. And in turn, I never asked them anything that would compromise them. Wow. Yeah, we had a respectful relationship. One of the chiefs, he's retired now.

I had known him for 30 years. He'd come up through the ranks. And I had kind of come up politically through the ranks of the Hells Angels. I kept getting more powerful and powerful. But there was a guy that I respected, and I think he respected me as well. Nice. Yeah, you climbed the ranks quick, right? I did, a lot faster than I wanted to. I wanted to get in there and party, man.

But I got in the middle of that war with the Mongols. And I think because of my military background, I was pulled deep into it. I was sensible about it. It wasn't something I thought was productive. There was a lot of shit that went down. There was collateral damage. One of the guys put a bomb in a Mongol's building. It was a bike shop, kind of a clubhouse hangout thing.

The collateral damage killed a 15-year-old kid. So, I mean, war is not productive. People think it's romantic. People that talk about war like it's romantic. It's not romantic. I wonder if you're going to get shot or watching your buddy go to prison or burying your buddy because somebody stabbed him or shot him.

It's not romantic. Yeah, waking up to something new every day, I bet. Just stress. Absolutely stressful. And that lasted a few years, right? Well, it's still going. I thought you made peace with them. No.

The war with the Mongols still is going to this day. I work as an expert witness now for defense lawyers. And I actually just testified probably less than three months ago as an expert witness for a defendant

was a shooting between the Hells Angels and the Mongols. Wow. So the war is alive and well in Southern California. That's nuts. Yeah, it is nuts. I wonder if it's out here, too. Yes. In Vegas?

It is out here. I think the Mongols shot a Vago, one or two Vagos. A Vago? Yeah. What's that? That's another bike club, one of the big four bike clubs. One of the Vagos was shot by Hell's Angel right here in Las Vegas. Damn.

So these clubs are everywhere. Yeah, they're everywhere, and they're very active, and they can be very violent. Damn. Well, George, it's been fun, man. Anything else you want to promote? Any books, shows coming up? You know, my podcast, Speak of of the devil it's on patreon uh i uh anybody interested in this lifestyle i do a q a where

people can write in and beverly and i beverly reads me the questions and i answer them and i try to i take on all questions i don't uh nothing's off limits for me you know when i do interviews you know like i gave you no parameters. I don't care. Ask me. I don't always answer, but ask away. But I appreciate you having me here. I hope I reached some new, young, younger people and kind of get an insight into the outlaw lifestyle.

Yeah, you definitely did. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for watching, guys. I'll see you tomorrow.