Digital Social Hour - The Ugly Truth About Most Visionaries: Why They Fail | Aaron Hovivian DSH #622

Starting point is 00:00:00 What happens a lot of times, I think, with visionaries is indirectly they try and blame that on other people. Oh, they just can't keep up. Oh, they just don't run as hard as I do. Oh, whatever it is. But it's like, no, no, bro. It's that you don't lead a team super well. And what your people need is the more people that you grow, they need consistency and they

Starting point is 00:00:15 need a framework. They need something that's going to last because the only way that you can build is if you set a good foundation. And if you don't set a good foundation, then you don't grow very far. Wherever you guys are watching this show, I would truly appreciate it if you follow or subscribe. It helps a lot with the algorithm. It helps us get bigger and better guests, and it helps us grow the team. Truly means a lot. Thank you guys for supporting. And here's the episode. All right, guys, you got the CEO of the collab team, Aaron Hobivian here today. Thanks

Starting point is 00:00:44 for coming on, man. Heard great things. Hey, thanks, man. So honored to be on. You've got such amazing guests. I'm reading through your list. I'm like, man, I get to be added to that list. It's an honor.

Starting point is 00:00:52 Thanks for having me on. Heard good things about you in the scaling space. So you basically help companies scale, right? Yeah, usually that's where I come in is when entrepreneurs are on that climb and they're starting to realize things are starting to rattle and the things, all their systems that got them to where they're at are not going to keep lasting platforms and people, tech time and, and all those different pieces of what I work on. Right. So what type of systems do you need to build in order to scale from maybe seven to eight figures?

Starting point is 00:01:17 Yeah. So I would say, um, the thing that I always think about is, and this is the thing that I think that most people don't work on and don't think through is the things that got them their initial success is probably not going to be the thing that scales them up. And, you know, I, you know, we're talking, you're like, hey, what do you want to talk about today? Where are you going to go with it today? And I was thinking, I think the biggest Achilles is solopreneur muscle memory, right? It's like all they were, they pivoted so much. They were scrappy. You know, they figured out the game and they started to make the climb.

Starting point is 00:01:44 And then they try and take all that energy into a team and they just start burning out. You know what I mean? They say usually it's their biggest followers, you know, it's their raving fans that they, that's their aunt and their uncle and their brother and their sister and their best friend. And they pull them all in and they make this team that's kind of a, whatever it takes team and they start to make the growth. And then because they're so scrappy and because they make so many pivots and

Starting point is 00:02:04 jukes, they just start burning out their people and then things start to so scrappy and because they make so many pivots and jukes, they just start burning out their people and then things start to crumble. And I think that's the thing that people always underestimate is, hey, the things that made you awesome to this point, you need to grow as a leader too. You can't just like throw that onto a team and say all those pivots,

Starting point is 00:02:18 I'm gonna shift from first to fifth to third, I'm all over the gears because what you do is you burn out your people and then it slows down your growth. And what happens a lot of times, I think, with visionaries is indirectly they try and blame that on other people. Oh, they just can't keep up. Oh, they just don't run as hard as I do.

Starting point is 00:02:34 Oh, whatever it is, but it's like, no, no, bro, it's that you don't lead a team super well. And what your people need is the more people that you grow, they need consistency and they need a framework and they need something that's going to last because the only way that you can build is if you set a good foundation. And if you don't set a good foundation, then you don't grow very far. Or if you do, it topples so hard. And that's why you see flash in the pan, like the guy shot up. And then a couple of years later, you're like, Hey, whatever happened to that guy?

Starting point is 00:02:57 That happens all the time. All the time. See it every day. And I feel like the solopreneur thing is so relatable. Even for me for five years, I just wanted to be my own boss the whole time. Every time I hired someone, it wouldn't work out because it's so easy to just get solo tasks done and start micromanaging other hires. And I think the thing that we talk about all the time. So I got a podcast, too. It's called Ops Experts Club. But the thing that we talk about with operators all the time that are under the hoods for

Starting point is 00:03:21 these big guys that do amazing stuff. We've got to work some rad names, you know, like Pete Vargas and Pedro Adeo and Pace Morby and John Acuff and Dr. Darius Daniels, all these amazing entrepreneurs in the space. So you get to get underneath one of those hoods, each one of those hoods, and you start working with these operators. And so we'll bring them into the show and we'll talk to them about tools and things that work and real-time data. But I think that in talking to all those people, what you see is there are good entrepreneurs out there that realize, as I step into this space, there are lanes that I'm really good at. And then I need to be aware of I was probably running in some other lanes that I don't have to run in anymore.

Starting point is 00:03:54 And I just need to hand those off and trust that that person is going to do it. And if they don't, you're going to see the breakdown over time and then you replace them. But the worst thing you can do is to keep like pull it back in, pull it back in, pull it back in because you're probably mediocre at that at best. And that probably, that person's probably better at it than you. They just need a little bit of time and give them some chops and give them some opportunity. So I think that a lot of it is just sunlight and water, right? Like give them some time to grow. That's crucial. Yeah. Some of those names you mentioned are doing nine figures a year, right? That's right. So to scale from seven to nine, you need team.

Starting point is 00:04:27 Steve Harward, his name came up when we were talking. Steve is a good friend and was a client all through 2022. Our retainers usually that we do with people are like six months to 12 months because my whole jam is I want to get in and help you build your team and then help you set up your team and get out. I don't want you depending on me forever. My model is, hey, let me pick up a shovel,

Starting point is 00:04:42 get in the hole with you, help dig you out of this thing, set you up so that you're good and begin to exit and empower your people so that they're standing up straight. And Steve was a great example of just prime corporate services, what a powerhouse they are. Everybody knows Steve. Steve is one of the most networked guys I know. For real. Kind as the day is long, like generous think that in the, in his size of a company is like, Hey, I just need somebody from the outside to come in and kind of audit my systems and work with my people and help establish systems that can help us continue to scale and to grow. And he's got an incredible team. Darren

Starting point is 00:05:13 is operator, you know, is the COO. What a quality dude, you know? And I think he and I are still friends. We still talk. He just had baby girls, you know, he just had twins. And, um, but anyway, it's, it's, it's cool to get under the belly of something and you're like, this is a great entrepreneur, but he can only be so great without team because the team is what's going to be able to enable Steve to continue networking is let's take over all this other stuff that Steve doesn't need to be doing anymore. And I think that's, that's the art that I love to be in the middle of is working with team and building teams. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:05:40 Cause his strength is the networking, getting new clients and that's what he should be doing all day rather than customer service on all the operations and all that other stuff. Yeah. Cause his strength is the networking, getting new clients. And that's what he should be doing all day rather than customer service on all the operations and all that other stuff. Yeah. So we helped him find his EA. So he was, he hadn't, he didn't have any aid before we got there. And we're like, Steve, like number first thing, bro, like let's get you somebody quality. So we found his EA who's Eliza and it's just a little badass. Like she's just a, just a warrior of a lady who is just a small little thing, but she wields a power, you know, and that way she can kind of control some of the logistics pieces.

Starting point is 00:06:08 And Steve can literally just lean into talking with people, connecting pieces, such a connector, you know, connect this person with this person, connect this person with this person. And he's always somewhere, but I think a lot of it is identifying, okay, so if that's Steve's superpower, right? We use EOS a lot, Entrepreneur's Operating System

Starting point is 00:06:24 from Gino Wickman's book, Traction. And one of their tools that they have in that is delegate and elevate. Are you interested in coming on the Digital Social Hour podcast as a guest? We'll click the application link below in the description of this video. We are always looking for cool stories, cool entrepreneurs to talk to about business and life. Click the application link below and here's the episode, guys. So how do we elevate Steve up? And that's by delegating down all the things that Steve does not need to be doing. So, you know, they've got this great tool where they're like, what are you great at? And you love, what are you good at? And you like, what are you good at? But you don't

Starting point is 00:06:56 like, you know, there's always that quadrant for all of us, you know, where it's like, we're good at that, but we don't really love doing it. It's kind of like that limp it along. And then what's the thing that you're just not good at and you don't like, how can we get that off your plate the fastest? And then how can we tool down all the rest of it to get you to your spot where your highest genius is? This is where you want to live. I love it. And I'm great at it. And for Steve, he's a great example of he's awesome at networking. How can we take everything else off his plate and only keep him in the rooms that he needs to be in and literally keep him out of all the rooms that we don't want him in because he's going to meddle. He's going to get in the middle of things and he's probably not going to make it

Starting point is 00:07:27 better by meddling with it. And so for Steve, I've seen so much growth in him as a leader of, I'm not going to try and get in the middle of all this stuff. You know, he's got Tommy doing sales and he's got Darren doing ops and he's, you know, he's raised up all these different leaders that are awesome, amazing dudes. I love that. But a lot of that comes out of, we came in and we rolled out EOS form, you know, set up level 10 meetings for him, got his people doing consistent. Hey, every time we are in a meeting, we look at these things. These are the consistent numbers. These are the big rocks we're moving. This is how we triage pain. That's how we're working through issues and solving it with a to-do that we're going to hold you accountable for. So next time we meet,

Starting point is 00:07:58 you're telling me, is that done or not done? I think simple stuff, right? That's the stuff that moves the world. It's the simple stuff. And I think that he's a great testimony for us of, of success. Absolutely. I love that. Cause when you're starting your own business, you want your hand in everything you do, but that's not scalable. And you almost feel irresponsible for not right. Like if you're not in it at all. And I, but that's honestly, if you were to ask me, Aaron, so you've been under the hood of all these different, like good size entrepreneurs, people, especially on the climb, right? Six, seven, eight, you know, climbing to nine figure entrepreneurs. What do you see as the consistent things that people that don't make the climb? And I think it's exactly that, like stay in your lane and find good people

Starting point is 00:08:35 that can do the other things. And I'm okay. Even if you want to grow your own people, but even if you're growing your own people, like stay in your lane and let them grow, find them help to give them resources, let them grow, bring in experts with them to help them grow and make their ascension. And I promise you, like we have a really strong track record. I feel like we've earned a really strong name in the industry of gold standard of like 2x, 3x, 4x, some people 10x growth of all we're doing is get consistent and stick to a system. That's like the thing visionaries suck at. They suck at getting consistent and sticking to a system. That's like the thing visionaries suck at. They suck at getting consistent and sticking to a system, right?

Starting point is 00:09:07 So find somebody that can stick to a system and roll with it because that's what's going to enable you to grow. That's what's going to set your foundation so that you can build. I love this. How did you become so knowledgeable in this? Did you have a business prior to this?

Starting point is 00:09:18 Yeah, so I mean, I failed prior, right? That's the whole hero's journey for all of us. You know, I think that coming up, I was always good with systems. I worked for a lot of different people and I always, from even just a kid, you know, starting, you know, 13, 14, 15, getting jobs and, and really watched people's systems. And I would, you know, they'd move me up to management pretty quick and any of the organizations that I was in, but I was always watching. Yeah. But why do we do it that way? And like the boring stuff, right? Like the handbooks and the, and the tech and like,

Starting point is 00:09:44 how are we doing what we're doing? And do we have to do it that way? And like the boring stuff, right? Like the handbooks and the tech and like, how are we doing what we're doing? And do we have to do it that way? And just asking questions. And then I actually started. So where I started my own business was I start, I owned a skateboard snowboard shop. I went, it was part of a chain in Orange County. They, it was a little mom and pop shop owned by a Lebanese family. And I was the one white guy, you know, that they led into leadership.

Starting point is 00:10:03 And, and then I bought one of their locations and I divorced from the brand and I just did my own thing. And then we came into the retail crisis in 2006, 2008, and I had to close it down. It was such a heartbreak because I had leveraged my house to do this business. And it was like a couple hundred grand in debt that I didn't have. And I had to go back and renegotiate with the bank on my house loan. And it was all this like super humbling stuff, but it taught me the lesson of humility, you know, and, and when things don't work and I, I feel like half my job is just relating to owners. Cause I think when you get to that place as an owner, you don't have a lot of people you can

Starting point is 00:10:37 talk to anymore. You know, like the people that are working for you can't like lower your guard in some ways. And so I feel like half the guys I've got to work with have become such dear friends because I don't really work for them. I'm working with them. I'm helping them build their thing, but I'm also kind of a release valve for the pressure tension, you know, of them and their people, you know, and I can just kind of listen, give them some critique, give them some advice, say, hey, this is what I've seen work really well.

Starting point is 00:11:00 I think that's another cool thing when you're under so many hoods is you see what works and what doesn't work, you know, and I can be like, hey,, hey, so I've been four clicks down past where you're at right now. There's a dead end on that road. I think that we should unplug that, reel it back in. I know you don't love that. Let's reel that backwards and push this way because I've actually seen people make that shift, and that's actually been their ascension. So I think that's probably been my journey is learning on my own in my own failure, but then also being willing to share that story and be sympathetic. And I know what it's like when you're feeling the pressure of having to make payroll.

Starting point is 00:11:30 I know what it's like when you're like, do I pay my next lease payment or do I pay the people that have been working? Like those things that are stressful. And I'll never go back to brick and mortar again. That wasn't my jam. It was a big lesson for me of things that I never want to do again. I don't think I'd ever get into brick and mortar. Yeah. I mean, I loved it for the season it was in. It was a big lesson for me of things that I never want to do again. I don't think I'd ever get in a brick and mortar. Yeah. I mean, I loved it for the season it was in.

Starting point is 00:11:48 It taught me a lot. Yeah. But I think that it also taught me what I don't want to do. Just the overhead, man. It's too high. It 100% is, yeah. And the inventory and all that. The inventory, man.

Starting point is 00:11:57 You want to be a Burton rep or you want to be a Burton vendor? Awesome. They're going to make you go so deep into every single season. You're just outlaying so much cash and you're never going to sell it all. So then you just liquidate it at cost just to try and make your, recoup your money back up. So that's not a game I want to do. That is stressful. And then there's another level to this when it comes to selling, right?

Starting point is 00:12:14 So you got to remove yourself from the company. Do you help with that too? Yeah. So I've helped with some acquisitions. You know, we actually do a lot of coffee, which is the crazy thing, you know? So I've got all these online entrepreneurs that we just talked about the names of, guys that are awesome. But then we have this whole other half of the business. What I found is operations is pretty much operations no matter what it is.

Starting point is 00:12:32 So I've got attorney clients and I've got brewery clients and I've got a lot of coffee clients, drive-thru coffee specifically. And so I think that I've helped more in that space of acquisition there. They grow up from like one, two, three mom and pop shops into like they have 14, 15 shops. And then a big conglomerate comes and wants to buy them. So I've helped with more of that kind of thing. Wow. I didn't know people were doing drive-by coffee shops like that. I just think of Starbucks and Dunkin'.

Starting point is 00:12:56 And that's it. Yeah. So like Dutch Bros is probably one that. Oh, Dutch Bros. Yeah. That's like a drive-through that came out of. I live in Oregon. I'm from Southern Oregon.

Starting point is 00:13:02 They came out of my area. But they've grown up really fast. Yeah. They're actually one grown up really fast. Yeah. They're actually one of my favorite spots because they're cheaper than Starbucks and Dunkin'. I love the drive-thru coffee culture, and we could go on a whole other road on drive-thru coffee. But I own a coffee business in Belize. We're the first drive-thru coffee in Belize. Belize?

Starting point is 00:13:18 The country of Belize, yeah. Why'd you pick that place? I love Belize. It's English-speaking. American dollar goes two to one. It's tropical. I've been going down there for the last 20 years. And I thought, man, there isn't a lot of this stuff down here yet.

Starting point is 00:13:30 And the funny thing about Americans is we all love to travel. And we don't want to see any other Americans when we go there. But then when we get there, we all bitch about how bad the coffee is. So I thought, how can I take something that all these hoods I've been underneath with coffee retailers and roll it into my own thing in a place that i love serving americans as they travel in our remote and so it's cool we've been doing that last couple years been doing really really well i gotta get out there belize it's like magic bro yeah it is the coolest place it's like this eclectic conglomerate of like creole people you know like think jamaican you know that speak with creole like dialect and that that whole intonation and then you've got a bunch of chinese people who fled when taiwan was made by china and so you've got a bunch of chinese there and then

Starting point is 00:14:08 you've got a bunch of mennonites there so all these german whites german-speaking people it's like this eclectic nation and then all the latin nations that pour into it as well english is the prominent language so it's there it's the national language because it was um british honduras first you know before it became belize in the 70s so it's the the coolest little country. If you've never been there, it's like, it's like the thing you never want to talk about it because you don't want to bring everybody on a podcast to your favorite spot, but like, you know, your history, man, I like that. You're a history buff. That's a good, good place. That's cool. Um, when it comes to key hires, have you noticed any specific job positions that are super important to companies?

Starting point is 00:14:42 Yeah, we do a lot of recruiting. So I'd say we have like four or five recruiting projects going on at all times. And usually I only do them from a high level retainers at this point, but sometimes like, and I know I was in, I'm in your WhatsApp group and we talk and I'm like, Hey, I do it for you guys. Cause you guys are great guys. And, um, but I think that with your hiring, I would say always think about, um, where you can use them a couple positions beyond this. I mean, I would, you know, a lot of times people like higher C higher Csuite, go spend, you know, but you're talking about like six figures on a hire right out of the can and probably, you know, a couple hundred grand, at least for a C-suite person, that's going to be,

Starting point is 00:15:15 you know, worth their salt as a C-suite. But it's like, do you need to make that spend right now? Or could we hire somebody as an operations manager and grow them up into a director of operations and then grow them up into a director of operations and then grow them up into your coo over time and give them like carrots that you're leading them along like i would say the best advice i can give for anybody with hiring is make sure you have a kpi you can associate with them what's their key performance indicator you know like make sure they have a metric that you're tracking because how do you know if they're doing a good job or not is that

Starting point is 00:15:40 your gut like how many how many visionaries have made fires over gut instead of like no no your no, no, your gut is good, but numbers are better. You know? So like, how are we rating this person? So I would say even EAs, I've watched EAs ascend from an EA all the way up to a director of ops, to a COO, because they have the same kind of mindset. So like, look for the right kind of people, but don't just hire for the position you need now. Think about if I grew this person a little bit, I could probably pay them less. I could see if they're going to fit my culture but then i can see if they can ascend to something that four or five years down the road they could be they're so loyal to you now you gave them their opportunity like you continue to pay them well and grow them well so i love those kind of stories where it's like yeah we could go hire c-suite right now but does that

Starting point is 00:16:20 guy do as well as he says he does or is his his resume just strong? Or was it just bullshitting you? But if you find somebody that's just smart and has the raw skill and is like a do-whatever-it-takes, and a lot of times young people will work harder for that, then you can ascend them better. I really enjoy that. I like that way more. I've heard horror stories of C-suite hires from Fortune 500 companies going to like a startup culture, and they just suck. I think the danger is at a certain level you start making so much money, right? And so then you start to lose touch on your profitability and nobody is going to get on this show and tell you they've lost touch with their profitability. But I'm

Starting point is 00:16:52 telling you being under the hood of a lot of places, most guys don't know their profitability or at least their line item profitability of do all your line items perform the same? Or do your, cause everybody loves high ticket, high ticket, high ticket, everybody wants to high ticket, right? But it's like high ticket costs a lot to fulfill on. And are you taking everything into consideration that it takes on the high ticket? A lot of times your mid ticket is actually your more juicy one, but people overlook it. But long story short, I think that you get into it. And as you start taking apart people's businesses and you start talking about profitability, they start making a certain amount of money. And so they just start hiring

Starting point is 00:17:24 because they see the top line. But the top line isn't the bottom line. The top line is what you're making when you sell, not once you've spent all your cash and you've got this much left. So you make decisions based on your top line. You bring in all these C players. And if they suck, how long does it take for you to determine they suck? You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:17:40 Like this is their specialty, not yours. And so I just think that when you get a certain size, people assume you have to hire at a C level. And I think that can be an Achilles. Instead of saying, no, no, no, let's take apart, what does this role need to do? And is that the spend we need to make right now? Or could we hire a mid-level player that could ascend to a top-level player

Starting point is 00:18:01 and probably be just as good because you're going to give them an opportunity, give them some growth opportunities, find them a i mean and then they're they're your boy or they're your girl like they're the trust is there you gave them a shot right now yeah i love that kind of a story way more than just going out and hiring i'm the same way when i hire people i actually don't care if they went to college yeah like i really don't no i i think i i tell my kids i've got four kids right all of them are out of the house now it's the craziest thing to go from having four kids and my wife and i just celebrated, right? All of them are out of the house now. It's the craziest thing to go from having four kids. My wife and I just celebrated our 28-year anniversary.

Starting point is 00:18:27 Four kids all out of the house and we're back to empty nesters again. But I talk to my kids all the time about, hey, listen, college is great if you need college to go do what you need to do. My wife's a nurse. There's a certain amount of learning you've got to go through school to be a nurse. You can't just show up and be like, I think I'd be really good with injections. That's not how it works. I'm not legally at least. But that's not every business.

Starting point is 00:18:49 And I think that there are a lot of businesses out there that are willing to give you a shot if you're just sharp and you know how to mind your P's and Q's and you're good with people. And they'll pay you a whole lot more than even if you went through all the way through and got your degree. And then you're at base level trying to prove to people, you know what we're doing instead of like, if you can use these years to build the ground level and give yourself opportunities. From my perspective, I think college has its place, but it's definitely not the only place. For sure. I think from a marketing perspective, I'd rather see someone do some marketing campaigns, have some numbers rather than a marketing degree. Yeah. That's more valuable to me. Numbers tell the story, right? Like numbers tell your story. And I think that if you can show that you can perform, I don't care what school you went to for real. And you were so like, the world is changing, bro. The world is crazy right now.

Starting point is 00:19:35 Like what are the universities teaching right now? I mean, are they teaching cutting edge? Are they, they're teaching probably stuff that's a little bit behind, right? Because are those people even working in the real world anymore? Like, I just think that things are happening in the real world at such a fast pace. Now, if you can tuck in under somebody's wing, learn from them. Yep. I think you can make this so much faster, so much better. It's so fast in the business space. I think textbooks need to go because it's that fast. Yeah. I think that if you can find a good mentor and I would say a good mentor is somebody that's doing the deal, right? They're in the middle of it, and they're willing to – they've come to that place in life.

Starting point is 00:20:07 Me, I'm 48, right? Like I'm in a spot now where I love – you know what I really love doing right now? Like Belize sounds funny. People are like, why would you even talk to Sean about Belize near a coffee shop? It makes no sense for a collab team. I want you to do it for a collab. But the reason why I think it comes up that it's great is I love coming in alongside of guys now who are like 20, 22, 25, like 30 maybe, like in that age group, who have all this energy but don't have a lot of capital. And I can say, hey, let's go do some stuff together, and I'll make you a half owner.

Starting point is 00:20:36 And what I'm going to do is I'm going to make an investment, and I'm going to give you my wisdom, but I need your energy to go make this thing happen. So like I partnered up with this young guy to go down to Belize and he had, I, he was in one of my coffee clients that actually got acquired and he had a bunch of heartbreaks. He wanted to be a franchisee and he had this extra equipment. He was going to go out on his own. I'm like, Hey, whoa, whoa, whoa. Why don't you go out? Why don't you go out with me? Why don't we go to this thing in Belize? Why don't you move down there and see how cool this can be? Let's take all the equipment. Let's go try something and see if it'll work. And so now he stays down there like way more than I'm down there. I'm down there four times a year. I go down once a quarter. I'm running the whole thing remote. He's down there though, like one month on one month off. And it's like this great business opportunity that he never would have gotten to get, except for that. I said,

Starting point is 00:21:16 Hey, let me take my skillset and let me pair it with your skillset. You've been running these coffee shops. You were regional over seven locations. Let's go build our own thing, make our own handbooks, do it our own way that we know is going to work. And then let's partner up on these things. So I've got that. And I've got like this coffee ingredients business where we do energy drinks and we do frat mix. And I've partnered up with a young guy that does that. And I have this whole like retention company that helps people with their collections around people when they failed. And I partnered up with a guy who did that. And I just need, I get to be involved with these guys and give them opportunity for the lift.

Starting point is 00:21:45 And we use their energy and their insights and their wisdom. And we use my years and capital. And I love it. Yeah, because when you're in your 20s, you got energy for days. You do. And you're just looking for somebody

Starting point is 00:21:55 to believe in you, right? Yeah. Somebody to give you a chance. Yeah, if I had an investor slash mentor in my early 20s, man, we would have grown even faster. I had to learn it all on my own. And I think honestly,

Starting point is 00:22:04 I don't think money does good things to people, i'll be honest you know i think that when you're like an old dude that's sitting on a bunch of money i think it kind of makes you kind of full of yourself a lot of ego yeah things that how's that better in the world you know i mean like let's find some young dudes and let's go try let's go try some stuff like let's go have some fun it's so exciting to watch a young guy get excited about something that you've been and done before. Let's go do some cool stuff and let me infuse it and let's see if it's going to work. Oh, that one didn't work? Okay, that's okay.

Starting point is 00:22:32 It's not like I put all of my eggs in the same basket. Let's keep trying because I feel like failing is actually the better lesson. Let's learn. I love that. That young energy is contagious. I go to these business conferences and I'm usually on the younger side and these guys are attracting me, even though they make 10 to a hundred times more than me. And I always wondered why, but I think it's the young energy. They see themselves. Yeah. I think it's so good. And I feel like those young, those young guys need

Starting point is 00:22:56 an older dude. I feel like to balance them out too. I mean, otherwise they become all ego. I think it's on both sides, right? The old guy gets too full of himself and he is, he's got his empire. The young guy gets some immediate success and then he can get too full of himself. And I think it's on both sides, right? The old guy gets too full of himself and he is, he's got his empire. The young guy gets some immediate success and then he can get too full of himself. And I think it's like, no, no, no. Like let's all just be humble and work with each other and realize we all put on our pants the same way, you know, one leg at a time. Like we all have had failures. We've all had successes and let's just respect each other and then give each other opportunities and build off each other. I think that's the thing. I know we've talked a lot about Steve on this show, but like Steve has won me as a friend for life because i feel like that guy

Starting point is 00:23:27 just wants to help so giving he just uh he just had damon john speak at my event normally if someone was to arrange that they would want money or something out of it he didn't ask for anything yeah and i love that and i feel like steve models it so well i got i got to work with damon john because he did some stuff with ped Hideo because Pedro Hideo is the challenge guy. So he did all these challenges, all these big names, and it's a big deal, dude. Kudos to you that you had Damon come. That's awesome. All because of Steve, though.

Starting point is 00:23:51 That would have never happened, and he didn't want anything in return, and now I feel like I need to take care of him. That's how I feel all the time, yes. As I come into clients, I'm like, hey, who's doing your LLC setups and who's doing your tax structuring and who's doing your corporate credit? Because Steve is such a good dude, and he takes care of of people and he makes it so it's a win-win. And I think that's the kind of businessman I want to be is how can we make this a win-win? Same. That's how I think with everything. If not, I don't want to just take. I definitely don't want to be around people. You know, there, there are some people that have come and they've, that's the cool thing about being where we're at right now is I feel like we're

Starting point is 00:24:20 still pretty boutique. I've got 17 people that work for me, you know what I mean? And we've taken on probably about 20, 25 clients at a time, you know, so it's, but I still feel like we're still pretty boutique. I've got 17 people that work for me, you know what I mean? And we take on probably about 20, 25 clients at a time, you know? So it's, but I still feel like we're still pretty boutique and, but it's great to be at the level where you're like, oh, I met that guy and he's kind of a dick. Like, I don't really, I don't really want to work with him. Like that's, that's probably not going to be a way we go. And to be able to say, Hey, I just don't, I don't think we're going to align. I don't think we're going to be a good fit and make some decisions based on, is this a good fit? And so guys like Steve and the people Steve brings to me are always like, this is salt of the earth. So you've turned down some clients because of ego?

Starting point is 00:24:50 Yeah, for sure. Because here's the thing is I feel like, yeah, they could pay me. But I've also found that with their ego, a lot of times there can come a lot of hypercriticality where they're super hypercritical. And it's like a lot of times it's not necessarily things that they're good at, but it's things they've assumed that they're good at. And so what are we going to end up? Like my contracts are only six to 12 months. Like I'm not going to be around a long time. I want to empower your people. But if I see the way you're treating people is kind of awful. And then like, even if you never treat me awful, I know I'm not going to be able to set you up for success. I'd rather you just keep your money. In fact, if we can't make you successful,

Starting point is 00:25:21 I'd rather just give you back your money. Cause feel like my name is StrongLessIndustry because what I say we can do, we do. You know what I mean? And I think that if I start sitting down at a table and I just don't have the right energy with somebody, I'm not feeling it. I'm like, let me see if I can refer you to somebody. I know this guy that does this really well, and I'll try and always make it a win for the person that I'm parting ways with. But it just isn't always a win-win to take somebody's money and try and, you know, I'm the same way, but it took, took some failed deals to learn that for sure. I used to take money and work with anyone, but now it's, it's not with the karmic energy that they're giving off because you're just going to lose

Starting point is 00:25:56 the money if they're not an ethical person. And I think it's just fun to do business with people you enjoy. I love John Acuff, like John, New York times bestseller, like nine books, dude knows what he's doing and he's just the funniest dude but i'll tell you what i get on a level 10 meeting with him you know i do his eos and we do level 10s every week and we look at his numbers and you know i feel like he's grown so amazingly his his book soundtracks is one of my favorite he's got another one that just came out called all it takes is a goal gold you know the thing is but anyway dude so just authentically genuinely what you read is the dude he shows up with at all these meetings with all these people that work for him and do work for him and represent him.

Starting point is 00:26:31 And I just think I just want to do more work with people like that. Like let's just show up. And are you a good dude? Like are you a good lady? Do you treat people well? Like those are the people I want to work with. Having a bunch of money and being super successful, I feel like sometimes uh, sometimes, sometimes they can be cool. Sometimes they can be awful for sure. And I'd rather just find people that are good energy and are helping the world, man.

Starting point is 00:26:53 I love that. What goes down on a level 10 meeting? What is that? Level 10s are rad. Cause I, the thing I love most about EOS, um, entrepreneurs operating system by Gino Wickman, the book traction, um, is that it's just simple, you know? And I know EOS sometimes gets a bad rap because they're like, we tried EOS, it didn't work. What I found usually is that the visionary said, EOS is going to be great. Go make that happen. And then the operator starts trying to make it happen. And the visionary is like, I don't want to do all this. Let's do it my way.

Starting point is 00:27:18 And they go a different way. And so they roll out a fractured version of EOS and then it gets a bad name for it. But the thing I love about level 10 meetings, L10s is what they're called in EOS's world, is every time we come to a meeting, the hope is like, let's knock down all the meetings that we're doing. How can we silo it down just to one meeting a week? And at that one meeting a week, how can we look at the same things every time so that everybody knows what they're going to walk in and expect?

Starting point is 00:27:41 So at a level 10, we'll help people set up their scorecard. Like, what are the key metrics? We all need to be looking all around this table. This is what tells the best story. We pour money in at the top, it turns this way and it produces these results. What's the best story when it comes to care customer service and how many tickets are open and how many disputes you're getting and how many failed payments we're chasing and like, what's the best story your scorecard tells? So we can look at it for five minutes, but if I'm on the beach and I'm not able to make the L10 and I'm able to pull up the scorecard i see exactly how the

Starting point is 00:28:08 business did week over week and i can call and say hey why is that number down or this number up so you establish a scorecard you review it together you establish what are the big initiatives we're working on this quarter they call them quarterly rocks like what are the big milestones we're trying to move this quarter to get to our annual goal that's something that visionaries are awful with because they project this big thing at the beginning of the year and then they forget it like halfway through the year and they pick up like 17 more things. And it's like, no, no, no, let's just stick to the goal. You said you wanted to get here. You eat an elephant one bite at a time. That's quarter by quarter by quarter. We're building towards the goal. So these are the

Starting point is 00:28:36 big things we're all going to tackle. And I'm going to, Sean's going to own this one and Aaron's going to own this one and Bill's going to own this. And then how are we going to get that to complete by the end of the quarter? And then we can move on to the next things next quarter, you know, and we build a list of what's coming next. So you look at your, your scorecard, you look at your rocks. And then the thing I think that EOS is brilliant at is let's create an issues list and everybody all week long, be dropping the issues, things that we need to solve this week.

Starting point is 00:28:58 And then let's all get together and actually talk about it. And whoever said it's an issue, they get to share about it and then we get to all solve it together. And then great. We decided that Shelly's going to be the one that drives that home and brings the solution to it. We all decided on that. Awesome. That goes on the agenda. And next week when you come back together, the first thing we're going to ask is, did that get done? And if she's like, oh no, then we'll say, okay, well we'll give you one more week. But if it's any longer than two weeks, you're fired. Yeah. We're going to bring it back to the issues and it's going to go back to the issues. We're going to have to talk about it again. And it's so crazy

Starting point is 00:29:26 how something so simple as just a little bit of accountability. Yeah. Like, cause all of us are like, we're prone to getting into meetings. How many meetings do you sit in? You talk about these great ideas. You're like, that was the best idea we ever had. You walk out and nobody took notes. Nobody took deliverables. And then you're talking about it again, six months later. And you're like, wait a minute. Didn't we talk about that like six months ago? Yeah. But so I love it because it's like, no, no, no, we talked about this. We gave it a deliverable, and then we said, next week we're going to ask you about it. And it's just this super tight system of accountability,

Starting point is 00:29:52 and that's honestly, Gino talks about traction, and that's what I've seen is simple system, but weekly meetings done the same way every time is how you really start seeing traction. You start seeing climb. I love that. I actually don't take many calls because I feel like most of them are so pointless, but with a system like this, it makes sense. I think the coolest thing for me is like, it's not narrative based, right? If you have talkers, like, it's like, no, no, no, no, no. What's the problem? And what are we trying to solve? I mean, like, wait, wait, wait, what are the numbers though? Right? Cause sales

Starting point is 00:30:18 guys get on and they want to tell you that I was talking to this lady and done. And they, you're half hour into some store and you're like, what was even the point? You know, it's like, no, no, no. Did you make your numbers? Are we at where we're supposed to be? And how did you stack up with the guy that was supposed to be doing it just like you? Like silence is a room. You know, you roll out a level 10 meeting and your sales team, it's like, no, no, we're

Starting point is 00:30:36 just comparing sales guys against sales guys. How are numbers looking? And if they're not right, what's the problem? And then how are we going to solve it? And it's like, you can batch through a meeting so quick and start making so much right lift so i love it i think it's cool yeah that's awesome aaron it's been fun dude anything you want to promote or close off with yeah i would just say um we have some free stuff you know and i always love giving out free first right so we have our own podcast i told you that ops experts club um i'd love for you guys to look at it's on all of

Starting point is 00:30:59 the podcast channels if you want to check it out there we also have a great just like quick starts tool that's like if you want to just check out something for free i've got my three best pieces that's a little mini course that i offer for free on the website at the collab team.com um and then i think the thing that we really do best though is rolling out eos l10s you know it's an eight week thing that we do we do it for five grand you know for eight weeks we're installing this operating system for you we run your meetings for you we empower your people and then we let you take off with it so i think that's something we do that's's the CoLab team forward slash OPSEX. So cool. Thanks for coming on, man. Thank you, brother. Appreciate the time. Thanks for watching,

Starting point is 00:31:32 guys. Hopefully you learned something and can help scale your companies. I'll see you next time. Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds. Recently, I asked Mint Mobile's legal team if big wireless companies are allowed to raise prices due to inflation. They said yes. And then when I asked if raising prices technically violates those onerous two-year contracts, they said, what the f*** are you talking about, you insane Hollywood a**hole? So to recap, we're cutting the price of Mint Unlimited from $30 a month to just $15 a month. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. $45 upfront payment equivalent to $15 per month.

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Digital Social Hour - The Ugly Truth About Most Visionaries: Why They Fail | Aaron Hovivian DSH #622

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