Digital Social Hour - Why A-Players Never Need to Look for Jobs (CEO Reveals) | Nathan Chan DSH #1001

Episode Date: December 21, 2024

Why A-Players Never Need to Look for Jobs: Nathan Chan, CEO of Foundr, reveals the truth about elite talent acquisition and why the best professionals never actively search for work. 🚀 In this eye-opening conversation, discover how successful companies build unstoppable teams and why the most talented professionals get approached with opportunities instead of hunting for them. Nathan shares his journey from bootstrapping Foundr magazine to building a global brand, including getting sued by Success Magazine (which turned into a blessing in disguise!). Learn powerful insights about: - Why A-players are always in demand - The secret to finding exceptional talent - How to build and retain high-performing teams - The truth about network-based hiring - Building sustainable businesses that last Plus, get Nathan's exclusive tips on content creation, magazine publishing, and transforming a single piece of content into 30 different assets. Whether you're building a team or advancing your career, this conversation is packed with actionable wisdom you won't want to miss. Watch now and join the thousands of entrepreneurs who've learned the insider secrets to building world-class teams! Don't forget to like, subscribe, and hit that notification bell for more game-changing conversations. 💪 #masteryourjobsearch #jobsearchingduringcovid #careergrowthwithlucy #motivationalspeech #careerdevelopment CHAPTERS: 00:00 - Nathan’s Kangaroo Encounters 01:46 - Entrepreneurial Environment in Australia 05:01 - Foundr Plus 06:49 - Being Ahead of Trends 09:11 - Customer Churn Strategies 09:54 - Is E-commerce Dead? 12:26 - Nathan's Interview Preparation Tips 17:05 - Businesses Built by People 24:36 - Starting Content Early 26:55 - Trademark Infringement Lawsuit 29:10 - Meaning Behind Names 29:30 - Facebook and Twitter Name Changes 30:35 - Elon Musk Insights 33:40 - Views vs. Integrity in Content 36:00 - Second US Office Expansion 36:20 - Nathan's Upcoming Film Project 38:00 - Where to Find Nathan and Foundr APPLY TO BE ON THE PODCAST: https://www.digitalsocialhour.com/application BUSINESS INQUIRIES/SPONSORS: [e-mail] GUEST: Nathan Chan https://www.instagram.com/nathanchan https://www.youtube.com/foundr LISTEN ON: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/digital-social-hour/id1676846015 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5Jn7LXarRlI8Hc0GtTn759 Sean Kelly Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seanmikekelly/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Here's a.m. Here's a good story. I was sued for trademark infringement. It wasn't called Founder. The magazine was originally called Key To Success. We had the success logo and then Key To in the middle, but we had Neil Patel on the front cover and he covered the Key To. You can guess who sued us.

And I get this letter in the mail from Success Magazine that they're suing me for trademark infringement. All right guys, digital social hour. We got Nathan Chan here from Australia. I think you might be the first guest I've had from Australia, man Really? There you go. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for representing us Represent!

I've been there by the way. Really? Yeah. What are you doing there? I went with my mom just on vacation, but I went to Sydney and Melbourne and got to pet a kangaroo Oh, there you go. And eat one. Oh Oh, yeah man! High source of protein. It actually tasted pretty good. It tastes like chicken. Yeah and there's a lot of them so you kind of have to eat them out there because there's so many of them. Yeah yeah that's a thing. Do they just like pull up to your house there? How common are they? Are they like deer? No not as common as deer but look like where I grew up in the suburbs,

is dear, but look, like where I grew up in the suburbs, not like I'm from Melbourne, grew up in the suburbs and like, we, there's like a lot of nature, a lot of land where we are. And like, I can drive out, you know, close to my parents' place and you can see them like a lot, but no, not that common. They're pretty peaceful though, for the most part, right? Yeah, yeah, it's funny.

You see all these memes online where people are like fighting and boxing with kangaroos and stuff. But yeah, now look, if you walk towards them, they'll jump. That's funny, man. Were you always pretty entrepreneurial in Australia? Cause it's not as advanced as the US, right? No. So when I started founder,

I had absolutely no network. My mom was a nurse. My dad was a teacher. I didn't know anybody really that started a business or started an online business. I heard about stories from friends for friends of friends. But yeah, nah man, like Australia is not like, look, we have companies like Canva, like Atlassian, massive startups, but like it's just not the same as America, right? Like the mindset, the mentality,

we have something called tall poppy syndrome. Have you heard of that? No, what is that? Well, basically it's where, for whatever reason, culturally you're often put down or looked down upon if you want to achieve, you want to do great things, you want to build something massive. Really?

Build something big in yourself, yeah. Whoa, tall poppy syndrome. Yeah, yeah. That's fascinating. So growing up, you want to build something massive. You want to build something big in yourself. Yeah. Oh, tall poppy syndrome. Yeah, yeah. That's fascinating. So growing up, you were kind of ashamed to be an entrepreneur then. Well, here's the thing, man. I used to just sell things at school.

Like, you remember, we could burn DVDs, right? Sell PlayStation games. I used to do all sorts of things like that. But yeah, look, I didn't think I'd become an entrepreneur. I just kind of fell into it. I think that's something you're kind of born with and molded early on in your life. Yeah, look, it depends.

It depends. So for me, I always was trying to get ahead. I was always like, you know, a bit of a hustler. But nah, man, like, honestly, I never thought I'd be here. I started founder purely from, I just wanted to do work I enjoy. Like life is too short to not do work you don't enjoy. And look, I know you've had these experiences,

like you've had, you know, you used to be an Ecom, right? And you moved to podcasting, you love it so much, right? Like, so for me, I started Founder purely out of the desire to find work that I enjoy. Like, that's how it started. Like, I started to interview people, no one in my network, no one used to get back to me, and I was just having fun, and I created this magazine, and like, what I found

was like the stories that I, like, because I started Founder 10 years ago, what I found was the stories were so amazing, like interviewing these people, I had to share it with the world. And I started to put out this magazine, four months later, I got an interview with Richard Branson and then the thing kind of spiraled.

But dude, I was taking Founder, the digital magazine to job interviews. Like, not thinking it was going to be something. So I just kind of fell into entrepreneurialism, fell into entrepreneurship. Wow. And it was one of the biggest, if not the biggest magazines in Australia, right? Yeah, for sure. Like, you know, the brand we've got Forbes,

fast company, entrepreneur, you know, Inc magazine and founder is like one of the top magazines in the space. Now we're a global leading brand. We're a global-leading brand We're not as big as I'd like us to be we're not as well known as I'd like us to be but we're certainly getting there Like, you know, if you if you ask a founder More times and not someone would know the brand, right? It's definitely recognizable. You do well with the magazine covers I can even breaking news coming in from bet 365 where every nail biting over time win breakaway pick six three-point shot underdog win buzzer

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and a few other ones. Yeah, there you go. Yeah. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, hats off to you. So with Founder Plus, is that the pivot away because I know the magazine space is hurting right now, right? Well, look, it got to a point

where we just used the magazine as lead gen, right? Like the magazine is awesome, so we just give it away for free, right? It's like an incredible, incredible magazine that you get, I guess over a hundred editions now, all digitally, like through our platform. We just give it away for free, it's awesome. And then, yeah, our real focus is now building

our membership site, because what I found was, I started to interview all these awesome founders, like yourself, right? But we're really niche focused on entrepreneurship, starting growing a business. And what happened was a lot of people started to ask in the community, hey, how can I learn more from this person? Hey, I love that this person talked about sales, but like, I want to get more from it. And so what I started to do was like, how could I get these people to teach?

How could I get these really awesome founders that have actually done it to get them to teach on a platform? Because yeah, the course space is massive now. Everyone's selling a course it seems, right? And I thought, what if, what if I could go out and I could find these awesome founders that we're already speaking to, we're already into and telling their story.

We know that people love them, perhaps they just wanna focus on building their business instead of actually selling, like courses and stuff like that. And what if we partner with them and get them to teach on our platform? So kind of like a master class for entrepreneurship. And yeah, I launched that officially a couple of years ago,

but really going all in there. Nice. It's been a journey, man, but it's been awesome. I love it, man. Yeah, I think you interviewed me for one of those, right? We interviewed you for one of our events. Events. For one of our summits.

Yeah, yeah, we go to a lot of live. Got it. Yeah, that was an AI event, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you were on the forefront of that too, which is great. It seems like you're very on top of things, on top of trends. Oh, look, like the only way you do this stuff and get ahead of trends is just spend time in the space. See where people are going, see what's moving.

Like, you know, membership space is massive now, like with school. School's crushing up. Yeah, school and Hormozi, like, it seems now that a lot of people that are selling online education, digital products, they'll want to move to the membership model. I was working on that a couple of years ago

and it's not as easy as people think. It's not, payment processing's hard in that space, a lot of headaches, but if you could build up an MRR, it helps the company valuation a lot. Yeah, for sure, yeah, for sure. But for us, I started to set, like for Founder, we had single courses, right? And, you know, Damon Johns taught a course or Joe de Sina, the

guy that he founded, you know, he purchased Tough Mudder and he founded Spartan. Like really cool founders, we get them to teach give back. And we're just doing single courses. But what we found was we were doing a disservice to our community and our customers. And a lot of people started asking once again, hey, I've bought like three or four of your programs. Why can't I get this in a subscription? And that's how it naturally happens. So it wasn't for us like,

oh, I wanted to create a membership. It started with, hey, how can we get these awesome founders, legit founders that are actually doing it, to create a membership, it started with, hey, how can we get these awesome founders, legit founders that are actually doing it, that actually like their business is building the thing that they're teaching, like they're doing e-comm or they're building an agency or they're building a SaaS business. That's their thing. They're not going out and teaching and perhaps they want to give back and we have a platform where you can give back. And yeah, that started and we started to do single courses and eventually got to a point

where it's just like we have so many programs, like why not just package it up and turn it into a membership that's purely focused. And that's a transition in of itself, dude, because so many people think, okay, you know, the MRR play, all right, well, I'm going to get, all I need is like a thousand people paying me a hundred bucks. Oh, that's awesome, right? And then I'm making a hundred grand. It's a million dollar a year ARR.

I can get a great value, great multiple on that. But people forget that just because someone buys or enrolls in your membership doesn't mean they're going to stick. Right. There's a drop off. Man, you have to really focus on the customer. The churn.

Yeah, I just had on a guest right before you. His name was Tyson. He's a sports better. And his drop off is 10 to 15%, which is really high. But he said in that sports betting space, it's actually low. Yeah, wow. Because sports betting is so volatile.

So if you have a losing week, you could have 25% of people drop off right there. That's crazy. Yeah. How's that a business? It's a tough business. That's why you need to focus on community, which is what you've done. You've built up the social media channels.

You've built these community channels. Yeah, look, community is key. And I think we niche down as well. We just focus on Ecom. That allows us to really speak to a certain kind of person. I know a lot of people doing, uh, you know, memberships that can often be quite broad for us. We're like focusing really on the niche of Ecom. You You want to start an e-commerce business, you want to grow an e-commerce business you can learn from us like

The Paramount Plus exclusive series The Agency The CIA sends us out to behave in a dangerous way starring Michael Fassbender and Richard Gere Whatever it takes, make it impossible The Agency, new series now streaming exclusively on Paramount Plus. $99 a month, right? Like it's 500 a year. It's like super cost affordable.

Absolutely. Yeah. It's like, it's a no brainer. We would have spent millions of dollars producing like courses, programs, building at the platform. I feel like e-commerce, it's definitely hit its peak in the US, but I feel like with other countries drop shipping is still really hot and upcoming. Yeah. Look it depends right? For us believe it or not our biggest our biggest customer base is in the US really yeah Yeah, cuz I thought drop shipping kind of hit its peak a few years ago. Oh Look, I

We for us when it comes to e-commerce, we don't really teach drop shipping. We teach people to build a sustainable brand. Oh, God. It's like founder, right? You know? Like, teach people to build a brand. Like, yeah, that, like, we're more about owning the customer, owning the relationship, building something

that's a scalable asset. And that, you know, drop shipping is a very hit and miss. Get rich quick. You use Facebook ads. It can work, don't get wrong. It's a great, maybe a great starting place for people to understand products, understand product market fit, understand media buying.

But yeah, no, our whole methodology and framework is building a brand, solving a problem, not just finding some product that you can just, it's trending, you just try it. Day trade, like that's not a business. There's a lot of that on social media, people teaching the get quick online stuff. Yeah, 100%.

So yeah, no, look, for us at Founder, we teach people how to actually build a long-term sustainable business. It just comes back to the kind of founders we interview. Right? Dude, I've interviewed, you probably would say to me, you probably interviewed over a hundred billionaires, right? Not billionaires, you've definitely, right? Not billionaires.

You've definitely got me beat on billionaires. Okay. I've interviewed maybe 10. Yeah. Okay. Because I interviewed tons of super like well-known founders. If you don't know their company, you would know them like, so they're all built sustainable businesses and that's kind of like our kind of ethos.

Like the word founder. Like if someone's into, if someone's drop shipping, are they a founder? Maybe, maybe not. Have they founded a company? Maybe, you know, in the more internet market, right? Like you're an affiliate market. Yeah.

It definitely should be treated as like a stepping stone. I started off with drop shipping. A lot of my friends did, but they're not doing that anymore. Yeah, that's right. That's right. So it's a great place to learn. But for us, we just kind of, our ethos is around,

we interview founders, we have founders get back on our platform, and we teach people how to found a company. Yeah. What's your process for interviewing a billionaire? How long are you prepping and how does the interview go? So I have a team that helps with the pre-production. I have a team that helps with the pre-production. I go through, like for us now, man, when it comes to the process,

we're really about the storytelling. And the more that we can get the guest to share the difficult stuff, right? Like not enough people talk about how hard it is to build a business. Like- Being vulnerable. Yes, yes, that's the stuff we're looking for, right?

So in terms of prep, I'd say I'd spend maybe an hour or two and look, unfortunately I have a team that helps and yeah, I'm looking for the stories. I'm looking for the interesting, uniquely interesting stories or the, you know, the stuff where you don't hear people talk about, like, you know, you've got an incredible network. You would hear crazy stories from founders, right, that, you know, have been so close, losing millions, tens of millions of dollars, like, or times that you've almost thought about giving up. Because every single founder has gone through that, man.

Every single founder has got to a point where they're flying so close to the sun that they might lose it all, right? But they don't. The question is, if you don't experience those moments, maybe you're not pushing hard enough. You're living too comfortably, right? Exactly, man.

Like, and that's what life's all about. Right. It's like making a move. Even myself now, when I go through like couple month periods where I'm like, things are too easy right now. Let me like go public speak at an event or something, like put myself in an uncomfortable situation.

Yeah, dude, you have to. You gotta always be challenging yourself. Well look, when you're getting to reaching, like interviewing someone who's a billionaire or multi-millionaire, they've built something of true worth and significance. And to get there, you just have to have times of adversity, right?

You have to have battle scars. And that's what I want to hear. That's what we want to share. But if you don't do enough research, how are you going to know? How are you going to pull that out? Cause generally people aren't that vulnerable, right? Like it depends on the person,

but you do all the interviews all the time, man. Usually people are surface level, right? You really got to push. Especially a billionaire, they've been PR trained. You know, they're, they're taught to kind of suppress emotions for the most part in that level of business. Yeah, man, you really have to push. Yeah.

Right, you have to ask, you have to warm them up. It's, yeah, it's not that easy. Yeah. Damon was a good interview. Yeah. He got vulnerable when I interviewed him. Yeah. Shout out to Damon John. Yeah, he's awesome. Yeah, he was a good interview. I've had some challenging ones for sure, but those always make me a better host. Yeah. You know, sometimes when they're so closed off, it's like, okay, maybe I could have done

better, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Look, it's an interesting one. Sometimes you find like, because I didn't even see any of his dude done for a long time, right? Sometimes you find, is it the guest that carries the show or is it you that carries the show? Yeah. Sometimes you find, is it the guest that carries the show or is it you that carries the show? You know what I mean?

And it's your job as the host to really try and push and get the most out of that person. And then also know your audience too, is what's gonna be interesting for them. Right. You do well with the fact that, cause a lot of people can't relate to billionaires, but you do well with humanizing them,

providing stories that people can relate to about them. Because sometimes they're so detached from the ordinary person. Yeah, 100%. But at the end of the day, man, billionaires, they're still a human being. They still have the same challenges that everybody has. They've just, for the most part, surround themselves with incredible people, right?

Like businesses are built by people, like billionaires, like it doesn't matter how smart you are, you have to have an incredible group of people around you. And you have to be willing to have difficult conversations to move on those people as well and like move people around. Like you have to be good with people, but you have to have great people around you. But, you know, when you look at a billionaire, there's so many people behind them that has allowed them to get there.

Right. And it's your job as the founder to find and identify and lead those people. Right. It is so key. It's not a sexy thing people talk about when it comes to building a business, but he's like absolutely everything, man. Yeah.

Right? Like I just met John. He's like, he seems like a really smart, super savvy dude that works with you, right? Like how'd you meet John? We just met last week. My friend told me he just moved here and was looking for a job.

There you go. I mean, it's crazy, right? But there was something that you identified. I saw his struggle. He grew up in a rough environment, and I actually liked that because that builds character. Sometimes when you're spoon fed too much, it's hard to really come out of that shell.

100%. So he's hungry. He's hungry. I can sense it off him. Exactly, right? Like he's doing stuff I'm not even telling him to do. How good is that? It's amazing. It gives you stuff I'm not even telling him to do. How good is that? It's amazing. I woke up to two Google Docs full of all this useful information this

morning. See, that's what I'm saying. So like you look at a billionaire, right? It's easy to look at that person and go, Oh, wow, it's so incredible. And it is incredible what they've been able to build. Right. But they're no different to you or I, right? They're no smarter than you or I. They just, they've had a sheer ton of luck, right? They've worked so hard. There's been so many times where they've flown close to the sun, right? And they've got this ability to find great people to work with them.

100%. Like that's so key, man. I've seen Cuban talk about the luck stuff. Yeah. Cause he, even he says himself, he had a lot of luck to become a billionaire, the timing of his companies and everything. And I know you've interviewed him too. Yeah. But man, businesses are built by people. It seems so simple, but so easy to forget.

Everyone's looking for like the next tactic or hack or, you know, tick tock shop or like whatever it is, right? But the biggest hack I believe in business is just finding exceptional people and just like finding a way to keep them motivated to keep working with you and finding out what they want and how can you align that with your business goals and just building a great company and culture where it's just like, like you said, how cool is it that John's thinking, right? Like that gives you so much leverage.

How can you give, how can you find great people, you can just let them go, right? And they go off and they build a part of your company for you, that's what you want, man. That's not easy to find. Not easy, most people wanna follow instructions, do's what you want, man. Absolutely. It's not easy to find. Not easy. Most people want to follow instructions, do the bare minimum work, check out early. Yeah, exactly.

And it's easy to do that, you know? Exactly. You know, as someone on a payroll job, why would I spend more time on something I don't have to? Exactly. So I get the mindset. Yeah, exactly. But entrepreneur mindset's kind of the opposite.

Yeah, 100%. So that's the difference there. But incentivizing employees, that's where I'm trying to figure out, you know, because I'm not a fan of salaries, dude. I feel like people do the bare minimum just to collect the salary. And I get that. That's what I would do if I was in that position. So I need to think of better ways to incentivize people. Yeah, well, look, it depends, right? It depends on your goals are right. Show me,

Well, look, it depends, right? It depends what your goals are, right? Show me the incentive, I'll show you the outcome. So how can you align your goals with the show, with this podcast, with this business, to where you wanna go, where perhaps your team members wanna go, how can you align that and how can you give them KPIs that recognizes and incentivizes and how can you give them KPIs that recognises and incentivises

and rewards what you're going after. But from my experience, like, it depends on the quality of the person, but good people know their worth too. They know their worth and if they're commercially savvy enough, when you get to a certain like level of talent that you're looking for if they're if they're commercially savvy enough to be in the position they're in then they know their worth and they it's hard to get people to work off just perhaps so like a commission only you can it depends on it's a great test shows how hungry somebody is but oftentimes you know people that are super savvy commercial that can build businesses and they typically build other people's businesses, they know their worth in the marketplace. Absolutely. Where have you been sourcing your top talent?

Look, we've used recruiters in the past, but I find one of the best ways is through the network, like my network or my team's network, friends, that all the most game changing hires that I've made, majority of them have been through my network. A warm referral. Yeah, 100%. Like you just, it's really tough for job boards

and finding people that way, I've found. It's a needle in a haystack, right? Yeah, yeah, 100% because oftentimes why people are looking at a job board, A players, they don't, like A players don't have to look for a job. People keep finding them. It's like dating apps. It's like the hottest girls aren't on the apps.

They don't need to be on the dating apps. Correct, 100%. Yeah. That's right. It's the same thing. You want to find A players, oftentimes, A players don't have to look for a job, man. It's the same thing. You want to find A players, oftentimes, A players don't have to look for a job, man.

The next job finds them. That makes sense. Because if you're that good, people are going to be approaching you. Correct. And that's what I was saying before. If you're that good, you're commercially savvy, you know your worth, right?

So you take a certain kind of deal to not have base. But you can structure maximum upside on both sides, right? And minimizing downside. There's always different ways to structure. Yeah, that makes sense, warm referral. So I have a WhatsApp chat of all the previous podcast guests. Yeah, yeah, John's just gonna add me. It sounds awesome.

Yeah, but like you were saying, a lot of people post like their friends looking for a job in there, and they're like a great person, and they get hired within a few hours. Yeah, it's crazy. So I definitely agree. A warm intro because the trust is there.

You trust this person, they've worked with them in the past, they produce these results. Yeah, I'll hire you. Yeah, 100%. And the thing is, right, sometimes with recruiters, what's cool is pros and cons. People don't necessarily always like recruiters. But the pro is there's a lot of work in finding that high quality person. And yeah, it would be powerful for me as the founder, you know, tap someone on the shoulder through LinkedIn, but you've got to sift, you've got to look through it all.

And then, you know, the recruiter, they're head hunting, like they're looking for somebody that's done it before. That's the key as well. Like, you know, I've always heard that Jeff Bezos, when he goes to enter a new market, he poaches the top executives from that market. For like the top like executives at the competitor, he poaches them in that market and then gets them,

plugs them into his entry business. Right? And there's a lesson in that, right? Like how much easier it is for someone to succeed in your business if they've already done it before. Right? Like how cool would it be if you got Joe Rogan's producer? Like you got one of many of his producers

to come work for you, how much faster you gonna grow? Way faster. Exactly, and that's the key, right? How can you find people that have done it before? How can you find somebody that has seen the movie? Seen the movie before? Biggest hack, man. Yeah, it reminds me of Dan Martell buying your time back.

Yeah. You know, because you're hiring these people that have spent X amount of years for a new venture, Big as hack, man. Yeah, it reminds me of Dan Martell buying your time back. Yeah. You know? Because you're hiring these people that have spent X amount of years for a new venture. So you're saving all those years. Yeah, man, he's a super smart guy. He's blowing up right now.

Oh yeah. And that's where content comes into play, which you were early on content. I remember seeing your content when I was just becoming an entrepreneur in college like eight, nine years ago. Yeah, there you go. What gave you that conviction so early on

in getting the content? Well, look, I bootstrapped founder, never raised any money, and I found that it was really powerful how you could take one piece of content and turn it into like 30 pieces of content. And I'm a big fan of leverage, so that's what I used to do, man. Like I started with the magazine, right? like 30 pieces of content and I'm a big fan of leverage.

So that's what I used to do, man. Like I started with the magazine, right, digital magazine, started interviewing successful founders sharing their stories. And then what I realized is like, well, I could have way more distribution if I took this interview and turned it into a podcast, turned it into clips, turned it into an article, turned it into a newsletter, turned it into a tweet, turned it into an Instagram quote, like 101 things, you just get more distribution. You sweat the asset more, right?

Because every single interview that you're doing, that's an asset where the content goes out and it's like you're planting a seed. I'm sure, and we see this, you would have some guests that do really, really well that are super viral, but it's probably only a small percentage, right? But you're planting all these different assets out there. Some will hit, some will miss, but eventually you'll find some that work and that amplifies your distribution and amplifies your reach, right? So that's how I kind of worked it out. I was like, okay, well, how can I just leverage that interview? And I knew as well that there was so much power

in having a magazine dude. So much power, so much influence. Everyone wants to be on the cover of a magazine. Exactly, but then also for whatever reason, when you have these super successful people on the front covers of your magazine, it builds trust by association, and that's what's built the brand.

Trust by association. These guys are effectively ambassadors for our brand. So then, people know the brand. It's a great name, too. Great name. Founder without the E, like we own the word founder and that's synonymous amongst entrepreneurship

with the E or without the E. Do you listen to founder? Do you read founder? Do you watch founder? Are you a member of founder? Like, yeah. Such a simple name that it's like perfect, right? Yeah, but dude, here's a good story.

You want a story. So when I first started Founder, I was sued for trademark infringement. Really? The first three months of starting. Someone trademarked it? So, it wasn't called Founder. So the magazine was originally called Key to Success.

And I had Neil Patel on the front cover on I think it was the third edition. And we had the Success logo and then key two in the middle, but we had Neil Patel on the front cover and he covered the key two. So you can guess who sued us. Oh. And dude, I was working in my day job,

had like no money whatsoever. This was like a little side hobby. Didn't know I was gonna go like be found and be where it is, right? And I get this letter in the mail, FedEx package from Success Magazine, that they're suing me for trademark infringement. And like, dude, I didn't have the money, right?

Like I was scared, like your first business, imagine your't have the money, right? And I was scared like your first business, imagine your first business the first three months, you get served a FedEx package by this big company in the United States that you need to appear in Dallas, Texas. And yeah, man, I just changed the name, sorted all that out by changing the name

and I called a founder. Wow. That was the best thing that ever happened to me. So that lawsuit helped you. Yeah dude, that was a blessing in disguise. Wow. Because man, like would have had this name, key to success, it's a pretty shitty name.

It's not as good as founder. No, no, I love one word names. Like you think of all the top brands, like all the well-known brands, very, very rarely in multiple words, usually always one word. That's true. Right? Yeah.

Away suitcases, Google, Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, Snapchat's maybe, but Snap, you know, Snap, like most brands are one word, ideally no more than five letters. Yeah. I wonder if there's some psychological thing to that. Not sure. I don't know, man. I think it's just cool.

Yeah, it just flows well. You know, Eli. Why would you want to say a long word? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, it just seems that way. Like, Gucci, Chanel, you know, like, I don't know why, but what do all these names mean? Like that's the thing as well.

Just random names and they've become that brand because it's been built. What did you think of Facebook and Twitter changing their names? Oh, look, I'm no branding expert, man, but like for some reason, look, the Facebook one, it's still branded like Facebook. It's not meta.

When you log in, you don't go to meta.com. It's just the parent. I think Facebook was less of a bigger deal. When Twitter changed to X, I personally thought it wasn't the smartest move because there's just so much brand recognition built in Twitter. Like X is cool though, but it's just gonna take a lot of work to build it back up. But everyone knows the platform anyways,

but I don't know why they needed to. Did they need to? They kind of just followed Facebook's suit, I feel like the timing was weird. Yeah I don't know like I've heard that Elon Musk always owned that domain. Oh x.com? Yeah apparently he's owned it for a long time. He just wanted to find a use. Yeah I think so I think that's what that was but look that guy's so smart like yeah making so many moves so far ahead of the curve who knows. Is he a dream interview for you? Yeah. He's on my list too.

Yeah, for sure. I made a manifestation list when I started the podcast. I'm sure you did something similar. That's so cool, dude. Yeah. You gotta do that, man. I've been crossing off names every month. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, yeah, you gotta do that.

There's something special about that. I did that too, and I made a top 50 list, and I've gone through most of them. Yeah, the only, the well-known founders I have any devotees is Mark Zuckerberg Jeff Bezos And they're all within reach. Yeah, because you're able to leverage all your prior guests now So hundred percent you're one degree away from them probably hundred percent. Yeah, we will get there eventually Yeah, that's how I see the podcast too. You're just building up such a massive community. Now I'm like one or two degrees away from anyone I want, which is insane.

Yeah. Look, there's something very, very special doing it in person. I I'm based in Australia. I have to do a lot of them remotely. When you can do them in person, I think it's so much stronger for building network, building relationships, building rapport, being able to connect with that person on a deeper level, I think, yeah, that's there. There's a lot of magic to that. Yeah, you get a glimpse into their life because you could see their office,

you could see what they're doing on a daily basis, you meet their team. It's just way better. I've only done one virtual one or maybe two because they were banned from the US. Yep, okay, wow. so I couldn't do it here Well, who's that? It was this guy named Santos Bonacci. Yeah, and then there was another guy. He just recently passed away But his name was Tom Palladino

Yeah, but I'm like even with Andrew Tate because I'm interviewing him I'm gonna fly to Romania. Oh awesome Yeah, that'll be a fun adventure. It's way better. Yeah, it'll be awesome But I him over zoom it just wouldn't hit the same. There you go in a flight to Romania. Oh, awesome. Yeah. That'll be a fun adventure. Cause it's way better. Yeah, it'll be awesome. But I, him over zoom, it just wouldn't hit the same. There you go. I've seen anybody that interviews him, he's interviews, it's really pop off. Guaranteed a million views pretty much.

Yeah, wow. Certain people are just like that. They got a really captivating audience. And I've been studying all the top content creators and a lot of what I'm noticing is the delivery of the message The editing plays a big role of course, but if they're just confident with the delivery borderline arrogant That's like a formula to go viral

Because I've had on a thousand guests now and I see which ones go viral Yeah, well, yeah, it's the conviction in what they're communicating, right? Yeah. Yeah, cuz Grant Cardone There's a ton of billionaires, but his conviction is just so powerful. He goes viral every time. It's also the look how controversial like I've seen some of your, some of your clips and you know, like the, like the guy that's drinking his own urine and stuff like dude, that's hardcore man. And then he's like, dude, that's hardcore, man.

And then he put it on his face and stuff. Like, man, people are gonna share that. You know what I mean? Like for good matter otherwise, right? Like I'm not here to throw shade, but that was out there, right? Like, you don't see that in your regular feed. You know what I mean?

Like- I think I might've been the first to break that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you know what I mean, right? You're I might've been the first to break that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you know what I mean, right? You're laughing now, right? Like this is crazy. Yeah, I didn't know you were gonna bring up that one. That's a funny one though.

It was crazy. Like I saw that clip. I saw that clip. So like, so yeah, I don't know. I don't know how, how like, how much conviction that guy had. I haven't heard it like, like that's just wild. Yeah. Yeah. There's that, that's just wild. Yeah.

Yeah, there's that line in social media where how degenerate do you want to be for views, right? So I don't want to base my whole brand off that because that's a never ending loop. And then you go crazy if you're just relying on like doing the craziest things you could think of. Yeah. Yeah.

But look, it's all about the hook. The hook for sure. Yeah. The hook is the first three seconds. If it's not interesting, I'm gone. Yeah. And tick tock trained that into people now. Yep. YouTube views are down. I'm talking to so many YouTubers. They're down like 60% really on average. Shorts are just destroying attention spans, man. Have you noticed a dip in your podcast listeners? Yeah, we noticed a dip, but only because some Apple changes and stuff like that.

Did you see that? Yeah, yeah, I'm down on audio, but even just the YouTube long form is down too. Yours aren't down? Well, we've been on a journey with YouTube, man. Journey, going up and down, up and down. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's saturated now too.

Yeah, it's a hard platform to conquer. We're starting to work it out now. It's going again. Honestly, the hardest, because you could go viral on Instagram and TikTok with no followers. Yeah, 100%. But YouTube, I don't see it that often.

Yeah, it's tough. It's tough. There's a lot of interview shows now as well. Yeah, tons of shows. I mean, when I look at the charts, because I study all the top shows, it's just like new shows constantly are in the charts. Like the Hawk Tour girl is in the top five right now.

She just started last week. Yeah, I saw that. That's crazy. Crazy, right? Did that make its way to Australia, that video? Yeah. Yeah, it did. Wow, so she was a... Everywhere, everywhere, everywhere. She was a worldwide phenomenon.

Dude, dude, Australian subculture is very similar to the US. Like we're always dialed in on what you guys are doing. I figured that. Yeah, I hear that a lot about like countries that kind of follow our lead. So Canada, United Kingdom, Australia, they see what's going on here and then a couple of months later it'll trend over there.

Yeah, 100%. Yeah. You think you'd ever get a second spot out here in the US for business? We had an office in New York. Oh, you did? Yeah, we had an office and a studio and then I shut it down over COVID.

Oh yeah, it was way too expensive. Yeah, well we weren't using it because lockdowns were crazy. Oh, they were bad. Yeah, and then look, we'll get it back up and going eventually. Nice, that'd be cool to have like a, actually am looking for studio in New York. Yeah, I got a film with a couple people out there Yeah, that's awesome. So yeah, you're gonna base out of there

Well, I film once a month in a new city now because not everyone comes to Vegas Yeah, so I've been filming a lot in LA Texas Miami. Those are like hot cities but it's been hard to find a spot in New York to film out, surprisingly. I filmed with Ryan Serhant, but I had to go to his office, but I can't really find a good studio out there. Yeah, okay, interesting. Look for us, we went to a place called,

what was it called? I forget now off the top of my head, but it was a decent space and you just build it out yourself. Oh yeah? Yeah, you have to build it out yourself. Okay. It was like a warehouse space.

Oh yeah, just send me the link after this. Industry city. Industry city. It was in Brooklyn. Brooklyn, okay. Yeah, yeah, we're in Brooklyn. I'll check it out. Industry city.

It was really cool. Yeah? Yeah, and then you can just customize the space. Yeah, there's a lot of good guys in New York I want to hit. Yeah. Yeah Gary V is out there. I think Barstool Sports, they got some guys out there. A lot of Yankees and Knicks players so yeah. Yeah that's the good thing about the US man. You could go to any city, any major city and get like 10 interviews in. Yeah man. Yeah you'll never run out of people here. I mean, like I was telling you off camera, I filmed 1200 interviews in two years.

That's insane. In the US, yeah. I'm catching up to you, man. Yeah, I know, I know. I know, dude. How many have you done? Dude, I think I've just tipped over a thousand. Yeah, you gotta be up there.

I think, I think, yeah. Because you've been doing 10 years, so. Yeah. That's a lot, man. Well, it's been an honor. It's finally great to meet you in person, man. We've been doing ten years. So yeah, that's a lot man. Well, it's been an honor It's finally great to meet you in person man We've been talking for a while where people find out about founder plus and what else you have coming on Yeah, you just go to founder.com founder.com

I learned how to start a grow any commerce business So we'd love to support you on the journey put out a lot of content around business Perfect. We'll link below. Thanks. Come on, Nathan. Thanks for watching guys, as always, check out the links below. See you next time.