Digital Social Hour - Why Ancient Coins Are the Next Big Investment Trend | Dean Kinzer DSH #1144

Episode Date: January 27, 2025

Why are ancient coins becoming the next big investment trend? 💰 Join Sean Kelly on the Digital Social Hour as he chats with ancient coin expert Dean Kinzer from Kinzer Coins! In this episode, you'll discover the fascinating stories behind ancient coins, their historical significance, and why they're gaining traction as a unique and valuable investment. 🏛️✨ From Julius Caesar's groundbreaking coinage to the artistic beauty of Greek designs, Dean shares his passion for holding history in your hands. Learn how these coins connect us to the past, their role in civilizations like Rome, Greece, and China, and why the market for ancient coins is still developing. Whether you're a history buff, a collector, or an investor, this episode is packed with valuable insights you don’t want to miss! 📜 Tune in now to uncover how these timeless treasures could fit into your collection or portfolio. Don’t miss out—watch now and subscribe for more insider secrets! 📺 Hit that subscribe button and stay tuned for more eye-opening stories on the Digital Social Hour with Sean Kelly! 🚀 #coincollectingtrends #ancientromancoins #medievalcoins #romannumismatics #greekcoins CHAPTERS: 00:00 - Intro 00:28 - What are Ancient Coins 02:42 - Oldest Coin in History 05:00 - Specialized Recruiting Group 06:40 - Investment Perspective on Coins 08:51 - Personal Sentiment in Collecting 10:49 - Ancient Chinese Coins Overview 12:22 - Most Expensive Coin Ever Sold 19:01 - Significance of Ancient Coins 19:45 - How Common are Coin Counterfeits? 21:28 - Most Valuable Coin Insights 22:05 - Book Review: 100 Greatest Ancient Coins 22:24 - Melaresan Coin Discussion 28:01 - Collecting Modern Items 28:55 - Unusual Items in Matt's Collection 30:05 - Passing Down the Family Business 31:20 - Coins Mentioned in the Bible 34:05 - Slabbed vs Unslabbed Coins Explained 35:06 - Matt’s Website Overview 36:35 - Julius Caesar Coin History 39:52 - Historical Value of Coins 42:21 - Where to Find Dean APPLY TO BE ON THE PODCAST: https://www.digitalsocialhour.com/application BUSINESS INQUIRIES/SPONSORS: [e-mail] GUEST: Dean Kinzer https://www.instagram.com/kinzercoins/ https://www.youtube.com/@theancientcoinhour SPONSORS: Specialized Recruiting Group: https://www.srgpros.com/ LISTEN ON: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/digital-social-hour/id1676846015 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5Jn7LXarRlI8Hc0GtTn759 Sean Kelly Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seanmikekelly/ Digital Social Hour works with participants in sponsored media and stays compliant with Federal Communications Commission (FCC) regulations regarding sponsored media. #ad

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to speak to an advisor free of charge. BED-MGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. You know, I mean, how can ancient coins be relevant? Well, you know, a lot of Americans know that in current time that, you know, Elon Musk is involved or trying to be a part of a department in our government. Well, it's not the first time the world's richest man has done that.

The world's richest man in the time of Julius Caesar was Marcus Crassus. All right, guys, we got Dean Kinzer here today, ancient coin expert from Kinzer coins. That's correct. Yeah, absolutely. And we're going to learn about ancient coins today. You're probably one of the biggest experts in the country, I'd imagine.

I know a few things and enough to be dangerous. But I have this huge passion for it. So in terms of my kind of collective business, I have what's it called? My podcast, the Ancient Coin Hour, which we talk about ancient coins. Ancient coins are kind of a mystery to Americans. It's not something that is frequently collected. And people can collect a million different things. But to me, there's not much more that has more feeling or meaning than holding something

from an ancestor of yours from a thousand years ago, two thousand years ago. Each one of these things has such an important message on them that the city or the country that or the empire that made them made their most important stuff on those coins. So to put them out to the public. So you knew that Augustus was going to make sure that you had food, or what's it called? We were going to take care of our enemies. There's lots of coins with, you know, where we conquered over this other empire, you know, where they represent all this interesting stuff. And so each one of these has a very special story to tell, and it's definitely worth

knowing. Yeah. And there's only a finite amount of some of these has a very special story to tell and it's definitely worth knowing Yeah, and there's only a finite amount of some of these. Yeah, we're talking out there about some of the price points on these Oh, yeah, they get up there. Yeah, they do. I would tell you definitely Sean that I think In terms of the market, it's kind of a little bit under underdeveloped. I would think American coins in the US are very well understood and very well, you know, kind of they have slabs, they have grading, they have a very structured collection style.

Ancient coins is a little different. There's a lot of mystery to it. First of all, because it wasn't minted here, but second of all, because maybe you don't have that direct connection to, you know, your past from, you know, Africa or Europe or China or any one of these places. But these people, your ancestors are telling you a story. And I just get so passionate about it.

Absolutely. Some of these are old, man. What's the oldest coin you got? Well, coinage was invented in 650 BC approximately by the Ionians or what is modern-day Western Turkey Those coins were made with electrum. So gold and silver together. They were generally just globs so like a ball of Electrum But it didn't take long as soon as the first coin was minted

The first full coin was counterfeited really. Yep. And so they had to advance ahead of the counterfeiter. So they started adding things to the coins to make them harder to duplicate. So they put on the reverse, they put in-queue squares or something that somebody wouldn't have to make a coin on it. they started putting striations across. So a glob went to something a little bit more artistic or had a different meaning. And then as time went on, I don't know if you've ever heard of a guy named Croesus, but he was around in Lydia in the 500s BC, and he was the richest guy in the world. And he created really denominations

of coins. So in that time period, he started breaking down these silver and gold and electrum coins into 1 16th, 1 5th, you know, so each one has a different value. It's not just one glob. Got it. And so it's obviously taken off from there, or it continued on down that path. But it's, you know, what's it called? You can keep going all the way until, you know, medieval times and, you know, usually my coin area of interest is from 650 BC to 1453 at the end of Constantinople. But, you know, there's so much to get

excited about. Yeah, yeah. So you like the older ones then? Yeah, yeah. So primarily the ones that had the most beauty, Greeks, early Greeks, even before the Hellenism and Alexander the Great, really obviously with their sculptures and all that kind of stuff, incredible artists. Well, that translated onto coins too. And so they would have, you know, kind of their artists carve and, you know, your coins today are made on a machine.

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time period and they put it on coinage. Yeah, you showed me some out there and we'll throw some images on camera. Oh yeah, absolutely. Because I don't know if they'll be able to see the exact detail. Oh yeah. But man, I was holding them in my hand, and it was so detailed. Yeah, and the details are important,

because they're telling a story, right? So the coin that I showed you, which was a Taiki tetradrachm, it's not just a beautiful goddess on the front, it also represents their city. They have the four corners of their city on her crown. And so it means something. The detail is important.

Yeah. So I have a big business audience. From a monetary point of view, investment point of view, you've been collecting these for 10, 20-plus years. Yeah. Like, how have these performed over time? Well, I would say that, well, like with any kind of collecting, there can be market up and down.

I mean, obviously, recession, people stop paying for things that they normally would expense. But generally, I would say upward. And the reason that I'm on here is because I really think that the market is still developing. So if you go to find these, to research these, there's a lot of companies in the United States that do it. the market is still developing. So if you go to find these, to research these, there's a lot of companies in the United States that do it.

And there's a lot of companies that are big in the business, but they don't have the kind of social media presence or kind of global reach or even nationwide reach that really impacts people. And so I'm coming on here because I think that, maybe if you start buying these now, maybe the demand goes up because they become more popular. Is it an older industry, like the people that are collecting?

So, yeah, I would say my generation probably did similar to me, right? So our father's collected, and, you know, either we stuck with it or left it. I left it behind for a little while. You know, it's, I'm sorry, I got a little lost. No, you're good. So did your father collect too?

Yeah, absolutely. Sorry about that. Yeah, so he was an avid collector. And we used to do coin shows and all the stuff together. And really, that's the reason behind the name. It's named for him. He tried his whole life to make a business out of coins and baseball cards

and what he collected and just wasn't able to cross it over. So to me, it's really exciting to get the opportunity to push it forward. And that's why it's called Kinzer Coins. I love it, man. Yeah, I think timing is part of it too, because the baseball cards took off recently. Yes, yeah.

And there was a huge boom in the 90s and stuff like that. But there's tons of stuff to collect. To me, I appreciate and understand baseball cards, but I also understand and appreciate that there's things that are older than 50 years ago, and they're pretty neat. That's why I love them so much. No, it's something you can't explain,

but when you hold something that historic, it, like, you feel it. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I think there's, when I went back into the history of my family, I looked up and found out my dad's side of the family came from Brundisium, which is a small town on the coast of Italy. Well, they went back before they were Romans, they were Greek which maybe you didn't know the boot of

Italy used to be Greek but I Shoot I Did not know that actually but anyway, they made coinage and That coinage I went out and bought right away because there's that's my ancestors sentimental to you Yeah, that means something. Well, all of us have that, right? And it doesn't just mean ancient coins themselves, you know, I mean, there's, there's, or, or, you know, kings or whoever, there's a lot of different ways to connect to them, right?

If you're a sports fan, you know, the Olympics were huge in Greece, right? And so people were so proud of their Olympians that they would put their wrestlers or whatever talented athlete was on the offer. So if you're an athlete, you can go back to the beginning of sport and have a coin that represents you. That's cool. I mean, you mentioned a bunch of business guys.

Well, it's very hard to make a business, right? It takes a lot of effort. And so maybe you relate to one of the leaders of the past. You know, you want to take over the world, Alexander the Great took over the world, right? That coin was cool that you showed me. Oh yeah, Alexander the Great is incredible. And there's just so many beautiful coins.

You know, you can connect, we talked about the astrological signs, animals, pets, There's all kinds of Animal coins that you could collect their sets. There's just a bunch of different ways to do it and because it's so vast I feel like you could probably you know find new ways to collect Yeah, 10 15 years from now because you found out something new. Absolutely. I'm half Chinese Did they make coins for the emperors the ancient emperors? Yeah, so there's a there's a whole market of coins Actually the market in China is pretty significant for numismatics

I think they I just interviewed somebody on my podcast the ancient coin hour talking about You know the collecting in China and how they do it and I guess the the world's Or the China's most successful collector most who has the most value, is actually a woman there. Really? Yeah, it was really interesting. What a badass, I was telling. Yeah, yeah. There's a big hobby.

So you can trace your history back to ancient times in China as well. Yeah, are there any civilizations where their coins were lost over time? They no longer exist? I don't think so, that I can think of. But there's obviously all of this stuff got, most people hid their money back then. So they're gonna put a hole in the ground

and they bury it in a jar. And that's where most of them come out of. Really? Yeah, the reason you can touch ancient coins is because it's been in the ground for 2000 years. Wow. So you can't do much to it, but you can't touch a 1804 American dollar

that's worth a million dollars, you can't touch it, but you can touch an ancient coin. Yeah, because if the wear and tear, if you just left it out would probably be, but if you bury it, I guess it preserves it better. Yeah, it does. So there's scarcity among certain types and stuff like that. One of the neat ones that I like to talk about for people that are really into warrior stuff,

Spartans, during the time of Thermopylae and their height, they didn't mint coins. They didn't think they needed it. It was a slave culture. So they didn't mint coins. They didn't think they needed it. It was a kind of a slave culture, you know, so they didn't really need the money, let the Athenians and all those guys make it. But as time went on, their power kind of decreased and then they kind of became a part of a Greek collective and then they became Roman,

but they started minting coins. So, you know, if you like 300, if you like some of that stuff, you can buy a coin from Sparta. Wow. You can buy one. And you know what? They're cheap.

I just watched Gladiator 2. You see that one? Yeah. That was a good one. Caracalla, all of the people that are in that movie, you can represent through coinage. That's really cool. Even the twin brothers?

Yeah, Caracalla and... Oh, that's Caracalla. Yeah. So you can, I mean, those are really affordable. There's a lot of them. Yeah, they were not like in that movie. Oh, notacalla. Oh, that's Caracalla. Yeah. So you can, I mean, those are really affordable. There's a lot. Yeah, they were not like in that movie. Not at all. There's, yeah, it's just that, yeah, definitely not. But from the first movie, even Marcus Aurelius and Commodus,

right, you can buy coins from both of those guys. I'd imagine Marcus is one of the most expensive coins. No. Really? No. I don't think it is. No, I think the most expensive coins? No. Really? No. I don't think it is. No, I think the Greek coins are more expensive. You can buy a, I say a worn Marcus Aurelius maybe for 200 bucks.

Oh, okay. That's not as much as I thought. No, I mean, there are a number of them, but a nice one starts to get up a little higher, but it's not the most expensive coin that has ever hammered, I believe, I'm trying to remember if it's the most expensive, was a Aureus from Brutus. And if you don't mind, I'll tell you a little bit of the background. The most expensive ancient coin came from Brutus in 42 BC. Brutus, who famously killed Julius Caesar and then defected from the Roman Republic at that point and moved to Greece

he minted coins about two years after he killed Julius Caesar in One having your face on a Roman coin is a big deal. I explained that to you But he so he put his face on the obverse, and on the reverse is Eidmar. So he's reminding people that he killed Julius Caesar. Eidmar. And then there's two knives, one on each side of the center of the coin, representing, these are the knives that we use to kill him.

That's an important piece of history. That's something that should be studied and understood and enjoyed. And so that's really, that's a, I don't know if you want to, like the most badass coin in history, like, you know, I killed Julius Caesar, here's a gold aureus, you know, gold piece that shows that I did, you know? That's pretty badass.

And that got him in some trouble, right? That was that long before the end. Ha ha ha. Same year and everything. Yeah, and back then, rulers, the turnover some trouble, right? That was that long before the end. Ha ha ha. Same year and everything. Yeah. And back then, rulers, the turnover was crazy, right? Yes.

Yeah. Tons of different emperors and stuff. There was a lot of fratricide. Everybody killed each other to try and get power. There's tons of stories like that, if you like stories of intrigue. And there's all kinds of stuff.

The Ptolemies in Egypt were notoriously famous for marrying in family and stuff like that. There's just so much to learn. Yeah. Who was your favorite ancient ruler and why? I like Julius Caesar because I think that he did, in the end, he obviously gave himself all of the power. But I really feel like he wasn't just a guy that was getting rich for himself or getting power for himself.

He was kind of a populist. So a lot of his reforms and stuff that he did while he was in the Senate or was the consul had a positive effect on the people. Land grants, food and stuff that he did while he was in the Senate or was the Consul had a positive effect on the people. Land grants, food and stuff like that. But it seems like to me, with the amount of things that he had going on, it must have just been an incredible intellect. He was a trendsetter.

So we make fun of people dressing funny or acting funny. Is there young, this next generation is terrible? People used to say that about Julius Caesar. Really? He wore his clothes different, so he was different. And so people would be like, oh, this next generation's terrible. They're out of control, they don't do things

the way we do it. So it's been happening for 2,000 years, same thing. Interesting. How can ancient coins be relevant? Well, a lot of Americans know that at current time that, you know, Elon Musk is involved or trying to be a department in our government. Well, it's not the first time the world's richest man has done that. The world's richest man in the time of Julius Caesar was Marcus Crassus.

And Marcus Crassus was successful and wealthy because of the businesses he operated. He was a tax collector, and at that time, Rome outsourced tax collecting. So they would pay somebody to go get it. And if those people went and got it and then got a little bit more, that was good for him. He pocketed it.

So they would keep all of it. The other thing he was in was real estate. He had a fire department that he created. And so as fires were going on in the house, or on people's houses, he would approach them and offer to buy the real estate. That's wild. What a savage. But anyway, he was the world's richest man, got involved, he became a part of the triumvirate.

And actually, Marcus Crassus captured Spartacus. So he was involved in the military. He was rich enough that he built his own army out of his own funds and ended Spartacus. And then later on, he did some other stuff. But all of this stuff is relevant. People want to know what happens as time's going on, what current events are important. A lot of people talk about norms these days

and how they're kind of going by the wayside and stuff. That was a thing that happened about 2,000 years ago in Rome. We had, there was norms that were changing and stuff like that. So a lot of this stuff has happened in the past, and each has different results, but we can learn a lot about what's going on now just by studying this stuff. Absolutely. So you know your history well, so you'd be good to ask this to,

does history repeat itself often? Yeah, 100%. There's nothing that hasn't been done. I mean, obviously technology and stuff like that. But really interesting thing about ancient coins that I think that is very appealing to me. It reminds us that there was a period of time that a long time ago that we had a civilization like we do now. It's just less advanced. And then it went backward for plague

and for all kinds of reasons. I think like 20% of the Earth's population died in the short period of time. Tremendous amount of change. But those coins reflect what they look like. So if you look at a medieval coin, it's a hammered flat little silver thing with a cross down the center, and that's it.

That's it. But ancient coins remind me kind of of, you know, the 15th century artists. It reminds me of, you know, current stuff. It's so beautiful. Yeah, absolutely. How common are fakes in this industry? Very common.

That's why we created the podcast. So me and my co-host, Josh Benevento, who's actually a Grammy Award-winning opera singer. Wow. Very talented. He and his wife are awesome. But we have this podcast specifically designed for beginning collectors, people who don't know what to buy, people don't know, you know, if it's real or if it's fake.

There's a lot to learn about these. But, you know, we're going to try to put out as much information to try to help people You know if it's real or if it's fake there's a lot to learn about these but You know we're gonna try to put out as much information to try to help people from make making mistakes and buying stuff online that they shouldn't There's places that reputable dealers all over the place Yeah, you know one of the the ones that I you know I usually recommend is the one that let me the coin CNG lent me These coins to bring to you to show to you today So there are reputable places, but we want to help you find those and not find the fakes Yeah, it's people as soon as like I said as soon as they minted the first coin

They counterfeited the first coin, right? So that's that's always been but there's tips and tricks to help you really understand what you're buying Yeah, I'd have no idea if those were fake or not. Yeah. Well, but I'm a reputable dealer. I totally understand. Any reputable dealer will tell you they will take it back if it comes back as counterfeit, 100%.

So if you buy something from me, I'm gonna return it to you if it comes back as fake. Wow. I'll give you all your money back. Has that happened to you before? Once, yeah, but I have bought fakes in the past too. It happens to all of us. Yeah. But you know, because we're, it's an ever evolving thing, but we don't want you to, what's it called? We don't want you to do that. We, we learn those mistakes

the hard way. Absolutely. What's the most expensive coin you've seen? Well, I've seen a couple of those Eid Mars, never the gold gold one but the silvers. There's another gold piece you know from Greece that's an incredible drawing of Pan and it's from a place that I if I said it out loud it would be embarrassing. But anyway that's another super expensive coin, gold coin it's like two million dollars. What? Yeah there's I'll show you a picture of it. It's definitely in the book and definitely, what's it called? But yeah, it's Pan.

Pan is the obverse and it's just beautiful. Damn, yeah, thanks for the book. 100 Greatest Injured Coins. Yeah, that's, Aaron Burke wrote that. He's a good friend, another guy that really knows what he's doing. But it's great to see because I think that, maybe you don't know what they look like

and you don't know how beautiful they are, but it's really good to have that. Yeah, and thanks for the coin too, man. Yeah. Could you explain this one that you gave me? Oh, of course. So that's a Malarisen, it's a silver coin from about nine, I'm gonna say 968, 967 B or AD.

That's from the Byzantine Empire. We call it that. They called themselves the Romans, but they were centered in Constantinople. This Byzantine emperor, Basil the Bulger Slayer, which by the way, there is no shortage of these badass nicknames for these guys. Bulgel Slayer. Bulger. Oh, Bulger. Yeah, Bulger.

As in he attacked Bulgaria so much that he became the Bulger Slayer. That's why his nickname. There's like the previous emperor to him is called the Pale Face of Death of the Saracens. Damn. They used to give each other badass names and stuff. But that coin itself, Basil II is probably one of the greatest emperors of Rome. He helped bring a dying empire back from its knees, really. And his longevity beyond extended the empire quite a bit.

But very talented guy, very smart, very driven. And so I think that, you know, while you're not going to let your spear rest idle anytime soon, it just feels like somebody that works real hard understands how hard it is to do well. I love it. Would connect to it. Sounds like me. Yeah, that's right.

And I love, you could tell it's manmade cause even the edges aren't perfect. No two are the same. Yeah, which I- So you have one of one. Yeah, which I really, you know, I like stuff like that where you could tell it's historic. The other neat thing about that coin is,

at that time, the Romans didn't have access to silver. They used to when they had bigger stretches of land like in Spain and stuff like that, but they didn't have silver at that point. So they would either have to borrow it from somebody else. So like the Islamic countries next door, they would borrow their silver and strike it, or they would just use the actual coins, heat them up and over strike over them. Interesting. Yeah, so that's probably Islamic silver over struck with

Constantine the 8th and Basil the 2nd on it. Wow, legendary. Yeah, it's so cool. Were gold and silver highly valued back then? Yep, yeah. So like if you think about, you know, a bronze coin, and I'm just talking around numbers, I know there's more detail to this,

but bronze coin was probably a wait a day's labor Silver coin was probably a week's labor You know gold further up just to make the coin. No, no to what's it called for pay? Oh for pay Yeah, so when you think about it, that's kind of how it broke down, right? Interesting Yeah, so one silver coin would last a week pay Well, it would that's that would be a trade for for if you worked for me for a week, I'd pay you silver. Got it. Did they have bills back then or was it all coins?

All coins, yeah. When did bills come into the picture? Much later, much later. Because back then paper was really papyrus and kind of earlier forms of it, so it wasn't as frequent. Steel or bronze and copper and all that kind of stuff was frequently.

Got it. So it was all coins back then. Yeah, yeah. And really, just about every aspect of it is interconnected to each other. It's just every one of these places traded with each other. So there's a lot of these coins that have counter stamps where somebody will take that

as currency, and they'll hammer over it, and they put like a mark that says we accept this here. And so you can actually travel with the coins in some cases by the counter marks that it has. So you could buy an Egyptian coin that was counter stamped in modern day Istanbul and you know that that coin went with the businessman from Egypt to current Turkey. Interesting. Isn't that neat? Yeah, that's super neat. How often were coins being, I guess, changed?

Usually a new emperor, you know, he's going to turn it over. So pretty often then. Yeah. Oh yeah, especially in like the second and third century AD when Rome was in crisis. I mean, it was like an emperor every week. Damn. I mean, it was bad. Yeah, they really had a,

and the other thing you can tell is at the high point, Rome has these incredibly pure silver coins, incredibly pure, pure gold. But over time, as you get into the second and third century, the gold and the silver becomes plated. So they're deflating the money, or what's it called, decreasing the value. It continuously do that till it just became bronze.

So you can see a coin from ancient beauty all the way to when a country's in trouble, and you can see it very clearly in the coins. Interesting, and they do that with our modern day coins now too, right? What do you mean? They're not worth as much as they used to well yeah yeah because there's no hard commodity in yeah I actually heard it was either

nickel or dime it costs more to make it than to I think a penny definitely yeah so it's a penny yeah I don't know why they still have them honestly I'd never just make them to collect yeah I've never used it you know it just feels so unnecessary Even change like quarters. I might keep but like I don't know dimes and nickels When I was a kid though, I would use them for candy absolutely now It's like I don't see that I'll just carry dollar even dollar bills. I barely carry those yeah really well Yeah, credit cards now. Yeah, no that's that's absolutely but you know, I guess we can look at currency as a plastic Yeah, right. I mean, that's how we live. Absolutely

Do you collect anything modern at all? Because I know there's some rare like dollars and coins, right? I so yeah the modern stuff. I don't I couldn't tell you much about I wish I could but Fortunately for me, I'm pretty well connected. So, you know, like maybe you don't care about Alexander the Great, or maybe you don't care about Julius Caesar at Cleopatra. Well, maybe you do like shipwrecks, you know? Everybody loves a pirate. And so there's a ton of shipwreck coins.

Really? There's a ton of, what's it called? Blackbeard? Yeah, there's a ton of, what's it called? Blackbeard. Yeah, there's a ton of muskets that you can buy, swords, all that kind of stuff to connect to, you know, the pirate times. And that's really awesome and I know probably the best guy in the business for doing it. So, yeah, if you ever have any interest in those types of coins, I can certainly help you.

I bought some weird historic things, man. I bought the hair of former presidents. Okay. Yeah, they have strands of hair. Really? Yeah. That's interesting. So I got George Washington's hair in my office. No way. I gotta see that.

You gotta show me that. Yeah, I'll send you a picture. Yeah, please. I'm into weird history like that, you know? Sounds like we're both into it. Yeah, a little nerdy, but it's all good, you know sounds like we're both into it. Yeah Little nerdy, but it's all good. You know, I just watched Hamilton. Oh you did musical. Have you seen that? Yeah Oh, yeah, that's great. Fantastic. My fiance just put me on it was really cool. Yeah. Yeah, it's a great It's a great movie, but you know history is

history is So so important right and that's really the kind of the case that I'm making is, you know, the coins are coins, people collect coins, that's fine, but I'm not offering up, and first of all, I'm not offering it up, but like I'm the single source of anything, you know, certainly there's a lot of people that can sell you ancient coins,

but I think that there is a connection there that people can find that's very special. And I think that knowing the history, knowing how the world operates, knowing what happens in the world is important. And coins can help you do that. Absolutely. You're gonna pass this off to your kids too?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, my daughter's already been to one show. I love it. And she's two and a half. Let's go. Star in them young man's two and a half. Let's go. I'm starting them young, man. Two and a half. When I was eight or 10 or whatever,

my dad used to have us rolling carts through these coin shows. You had that many coins? Holy crap. Had wheelbarrows of coins. Yeah, yeah. That's cool, though. Did he keep a lot of what he collected

or did he sell most of it? Oh, he kept everything. Like, he would be hard pressed to get rid get rid of anything really yeah, so everything I mean It borderlined on hoarding. I remember that show orders. You should have applied for that Actually, but the thing about him at the very least is I think he was a little OCD or whatever so at least he kept it in decent shape. So it wasn't like, you know, he had a ton of cars, just weird interests in like fiats and yougos and stuff.

So we had a number of those cars I had to sell and all that kind of stuff. But he was a very eclectic guy that really loved history. He was a Christian, very dedicated to Christianity. And one of the other thing that I always mention to people about ancient coins is, you know, coins are literally mentioned in the Bible a number of times. I didn't know that. Yeah, so one of the most famous sayings from the Bible is Jesus talking about the tribute penny, and on the cover is Tiberius, we think, or Augustus,

and he's saying, render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. So that coin, the Tribute Penny, you can buy. Shekels of Tyre, which was the temple tax that was in the Jewish temple, and was one of the most talked about, really, it was very frequently mentioned. It's a shekel of Tyre. There's a number of those. You can buy one of those. You can get early images of Christianity, or what's it called, the first coin with Jesus Christ on it.

Really? Right, so 695 AD, and Emperor Justinian II made the first coin with Jesus Christ on it. And to me, if I'm a Christian, that's pretty cool. It was gold, and Jesus Christ is on the obverse and then on the reverse I think was, well I can't remember what's on the reverse. Anyway, Jesus Christ on the obverse

and it's very interesting. And I don't wanna be like conspiratorial or anything, but it's very interesting because he minted two coins. He minted one called the Christ coin, and Christ looks like what we would imagine he looks like, bearded, all that kind of stuff. He released after, and boy, I would love to tell you the story of Justinian II because that dude's wild, but after he released another coin with Christ on it, but it didn't look like our Jesus. It was called the young Christ.

And so, a lot of... Or some people think that Justinian the Second kind of used Zeus to have that image of Christ. Wow. So, I'm not a conspiracy guy or anything like that. But if I do a little simple math in my head, I think what Jesus Christ looks like, our image of Christ might have been a mixture of Zeus. Holy crap. Isn't that neat?

That's a crazy comparison. I have no idea if that's 100% true, but it kind of feels true when you look at the coin, because it looks like the Jesus that we know. That's fascinating. Yeah, and the young Christ coin, true when you look at the coin because it looks like it looks like the Jesus that we know. That's fascinating. Yeah. And the young Christ coin, that looks more like a Middle Eastern guy.

Whoa. Yeah, short hair, curly. That is crazy because there is always that debate, was he white, was he black, was he Middle Eastern? But if it's on a coin, I mean, that's pretty compelling to me. Yeah, that's pretty neat. Yeah. Because they wouldn't just randomly throw it. No, I don't know.

And trust me, I'm sure that people will look this up and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, as I understand it, that's the way it was designed. Fascinating. Yeah, it is. How much is that coin? 5,000. Damn.

We have one for you tomorrow. Is that graded or ungraded? OK, so I'm glad you brought that up. That's a different subject about ancient coins that I think is interesting. There is a debate amongst people that collect these, is whether you slab them or don't. So one of the things I always tell people is that a 2,000

year old coin has been buried for 2,000 years. So it's pretty solid, but it's not brand new off of the press. So you can hold it. And that's part of the joy. You don't have to look through a plastic case. But if you prefer, you can do that as well. And there's a couple of different services that do that. I prefer to hold them.

But if a client wants one in the slab, no problem for me. I could see both cases. If you want to put it up somewhere nice, slab it up. But I like holding it too, because something about just holding it and feeling that history. That's right. It just feels good.

Yeah. Yeah, I could see both cases. I'm going to get some off you, man. I'm excited to start my, I'm a big collector. I got 600 Funko Pops. Really? Yeah. I collect all sorts of histories.

Oh, I'm so excited. Whatever I can do to help you, let me know. Last week, we were at the Orlando Fun Show, and I got to see so many neat things. There's so much available that maybe you don't know, and that's the whole point. Nice. And so I'd be happy to share with everybody.

You can go to my website, KinzerCoins.com. That's where all my coins are for sale, but also all the videos about the history and how you learn about it, and pretty much encompasses, at least it's a good starting point for you if you're interested in the hobby. I'm excited. Definitely getting the Aquarius one. I'll get some from China. You got any from Ireland?

I'm half Irish too. Oh, so the Celts. So Celts are, you know, we think of Rome as a civilized, you know, kind of a government that moves, but above them to the north were Celts, which were more of a tribal people, right? But they wanted currency and they, what's it called? They made their own currency to look like the Greeks. So there's a number of coins that are made from the Celts,

north of Italy, all the way up to England, that they made in that time period. A lot of history in Ireland, man. Oh yeah, yeah. They went through a lot. Yeah, they did. Yeah, it's a, again, that's something that you can connect with.

Yeah, absolutely, dude. I'm very excited. Where can people find your podcast too? Is it on YouTube? YouTube and Spotify. It's the Ancient Coin Hour. It's me and Josh. We try to keep it shorter than an hour,

but it's hard once I get swarmed up. I can see how passionate you are. Let's actually end off with one of these. You can pick any coin to explain to the audience, and we'll throw up a photo of it in case it's blurry. So this is on loan from a very good friend of mine. This is a denarius of Julius Caesar. And so this denarius of Julius Caesar

is an important piece of history, and the reason I want to share it with you. So here, that's the denarius. And what is on the obverse is Julius Caesar. And then on the reverse is the moneyer's name, the person that made it, and then a goddess on the reverse. Why is that important, Dean? Well, if you know anything about Rome, Rome hated kings.

It started out in 753 BC. It had kings for about 200 years, and then they deposed them and promised to never have kings again and that was a big deal. So they formed the Senate and then later on the populism, the populist movement gave the people, the average people a voice through the Tribune of the Plebs and stuff. And so as that's going on, that norm is being established. Their norm was if you issued coinage, it generally had a goddess or a god on the obverse, no

king, because the Greeks put kings on their coins. And so that was their thing. So forever they put gods on their coins. Well, as norms start to break away and time goes by, a gentleman named Julius Caesar comes by and certainly has an impact on history. But one of the bigger impacts that he had was he's the first person to put his own face on a coin in Rome. And why did he do that? Well, it signifies a lot. And he was no stranger to, what's it called, the propaganda and what things meant. But, you know, changing from a God to a man says a lot. And then on top of that, when he

minted those coins in 44 BC, right before he died in February and March, he put on those coins that he was a dictator in perpetuity. So there's, in Latin, was a dictator in perpetuity. Whoa. So there's, in Latin, it says dictator in perpetuity. And what's it called? So he issued those coins. I think that may have been the straw that broke people's camel back, right? I mean, having something that is sacred, one, no kings,

two, replacing yourself with a god or replacing a god with yourself, you're saying a lot. And a lot of people feel like that's kind of the straw that broke. So what you're witnessing in that coin is the changing of the world. Really, think about it. That's a lot of history. Roman Empire didn't begin until 20 years after that. Yeah.

But before it was the Republic. And things operated differently. It had a Senate, judicial process, all that kind of stuff. By the time it was an empire, it was a king. It was one guy, or an emperor. And he controlled everything. That changed the way the world works. That's crazy.

Particularly in Rome. Yeah, and that one's $15,000, you said, right? Yeah, but I mean, if15,000, you said, right? Yeah, that's, yeah, but I mean, if you compare it to American coins, an $1804 worth a couple million dollars. Nuts. And to me, I understand that. I totally get it.

I love that people love it. But to me, it's a hundred-year-old coin, you know? Yeah. And I understand, and maybe somebody important held it over time or whatever, that's fine. But to me, the value is in the history, right? This was there when that happened, right? These people were so passionate about what they were doing, they were telling you on their coins and spreading it throughout the world, right?

And so it tells a lot more to me, or it speaks volumes. So if you ask me what that coin's worth, you say 15 grand. I say, you know, 100 grand. I think it's worth it. Nobody would look at you crazy if you told them that you bought that coin for 100. Nobody. I mean, hey, Michael Jordan rookie cards are half a million. That's right That's right, and that doesn't have near the yeah, and there's like 500 of those PSA 10

I think so. I don't know how many of these there are but that not not 500 PSA 10 That's great condition though. Yeah. Oh, yeah, dude That's that's like new and that's another thing that you'd be surprised by is that there's a lot of really nice coins but also if you think about everybody, everybody who's interested in collecting can participate because with Rome and with a lot of these other places, they made bronze coins, tons of them. So you, one of the most important people in history is

Constantine the Great, right? Took the Christianity from being illegal, legalized it, and then it became a part of the empire. And that's really how Christianity spread. Because if you wanted to be successful in the Roman Empire, you had to be a Christian, and sometimes you had to be kind of the most Christian to be successful. And so that's why it spread like wildfire. And it was, what's it called? You

can buy one of his coins for $25. Damn. And that's very historic. The fact that Christianity survived under his watch. Yeah, only because of him, right? I mean, or maybe some other emperor would have done it, but he did it. And that's why it was important. And really the sprouting of that religion and it becoming a primary force in the world world or a primary and secondary force in the world is you can tell it in coins. I love it. Dean, it's been awesome where people find you and potentially get a coin. Yeah absolutely so I'm mostly on Instagram I have all the different types they're all at Kinzer coins. My website is

www.kinsercoins.com And the podcast is the ancient coin hour. I love it. Yeah, get below. Thanks so much for coming man I appreciate it. Thank you so much for buying stuff from you. Absolutely. Thank you so much. Check them out guys. See you next time Bet MGM is an official sports betting partner of the National Hockey League and has your back all season long. From puck drop to the final shot, you're always taken care of with the sportsbook Born in Vegas. That's a feeling you can only get with Bet MGM, and no matter your team, your favorite skater or your style, there's something every NHL fan is going to love about BetMGM. Download the app today and discover why BetMGM is your hockey home for the season.

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