Digital Social Hour - Why Chess Masters Dominate High Stakes Poker | Dan Smith DSH #1030

Episode Date: December 29, 2024

Ever wondered why Chess Masters excel at high stakes poker? 🎲 Dan Smith, one of poker's elite players and former chess master, reveals the fascinating connection between these two strategic games. From achieving a 2170 chess rating to becoming a top poker professional with multiple $1M tournament cashes, Dan shares incredible insights into competitive mindset, strategic thinking, and decision-making at the highest level. Join us for an exclusive conversation with Dan Smith as he discusses his journey from chess prodigy to poker champion, breaking down how chess mastery translates to poker success. Learn about the evolution of both games in the computer age, the psychology behind high-stakes decision-making, and what it takes to compete at the elite level in both chess and poker. Dan opens up about his experiences in $1,000,000 buy-in tournaments, shares thoughts on modern poker culture, and reveals why chess players often transition successfully to poker. Whether you're interested in chess, poker, or the psychology of competition, this conversation offers unique insights into the mind of a strategic genius. Featuring candid discussions about tournament preparation, mental fortitude, and the future of both games, this episode is packed with valuable insights for players and fans alike. Don't miss Dan's perspective on modern poker streaming, game theory, and his incredible charity work raising millions for good causes. 🏆 #tritonpoker #dansmithinterview #pokerlive #highstakespokerlivestream #livepoker CHAPTERS: 00:00 - Intro 00:30 - Poker Strategy and Tips 04:56 - Chess Tactics and Techniques 11:24 - Top Country for Poker Success 12:34 - Streaming Poker Events 16:08 - Martin Kabrhel Controversy 19:34 - Playing Against Opponents 19:57 - Computer Algorithms in Poker 22:37 - Winning Consistently in Poker 27:24 - Health and Biohacking Insights 30:31 - Best Dining Options in Vegas 32:15 - The Sphere Experience 33:38 - Transitioning from Poker 34:45 - Building Friendships at the Table 35:53 - Notable Poker Rivalries 38:00 - Personal Journey into Poker 40:56 - Upcoming Charity Initiatives 42:11 - OUTRO APPLY TO BE ON THE PODCAST: https://www.digitalsocialhour.com/application BUSINESS INQUIRIES/SPONSORS: [e-mail] GUEST: Dan Smith https://www.instagram.com/kingdan23 LISTEN ON: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/digital-social-hour/id1676846015 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5Jn7LXarRlI8Hc0GtTn759 Sean Kelly Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seanmikekelly/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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All right, guys, poker professional Dan Smith here. Thanks for coming on, man. Thanks for having me. It's going to be fun. Absolutely. Six on the all time money list, climbing up. Is that the highest you've ever been? Um, I, I've gotten as high as either third or fourth.

When Bryn Kenny won the big million dollar tournament, I got third in that tournament. And if I had won, I would have made number one. Oh, wow. So you were right there. It was in the hunt, yeah. Damn. But also that tournament was like,

it was so big that it really just catapulted you up, you know? Yeah, yeah, I noticed, because I've looked at the list and pretty much 80% of the cash is seen to be from a few events. Yeah. It's like a big cash out, like a $10 million payout, right? Something like that, yeah. Yeah, so I don't know if that's a good way

of judging skill level. Oh, definitely not. Because it just comes down to a few key tournaments. Yeah. If you have a few million dollar tournaments over your career, sample size is going to be that relevant. Right. But it's something to talk about.

What's a better gauge to test skill level, you think? I mean, if you included buy-ins in there, like okay, this person cashed for 55 million and they were in for 35 plus 20. And also I think just like the eye test of like seeing somebody play, how are they handling situations? Like you talk to somebody about poker, in some cases you could just tell right away

they know what they're talking about. Wow, you could tell just from talking to them? A bit. Or like if you see someone play a hand, certain mistakes are obvious enough that it's like pretty indicative that the person's not gonna be like a star. That makes sense.

Yeah, it never shows the buy-ins, that's a good point. Cause they could have bought in a few times. Yeah. They could have even lost money and you wouldn't know. For sure. Yeah, it happens. Like the buy-ins are big. Like people, I probably played like five ish million

of buy-ins last year, you know? Wow. Maybe more. It's pretty wild. Yeah, I saw on your Twitter-ins last year, you know? Wow. Maybe more. It's pretty wild. Yeah, I saw on your Twitter, so last year you won 700K, and I think as of last month you tweeted you're down 700K. I don't know if it's still.

At the WSOP. At the WSOP? Yeah. And like also a $250,000 entry fee. Like a 700K swing almost doesn't mean all that much, And also a $250,000 entry fee. I guess 700K swing almost doesn't mean all that much. 250K tournament is gonna swing a lot. Yeah, I guess it's all relative. For someone like you playing high stakes,

that 700K is not that much. Yeah, and also for the big tournaments, plenty of professionals take on investors or piece themselves out, that sort of thing. Got it. Is that something you do or do you fund your entire bankroll yourself? I take investors for the big tournaments. I think if you're, like with the tax implications as an American, you kind of have to. Otherwise, having a losing year, like it would be such a big negative tax free roll Right because you can only write off 6k, right? You could write off losses against winnings

But only over the course of a year So if you lose a million one year you win a million the next year your break even but you have the government 400 Holy crap I didn't know that. Yeah, it's rough. Wow So there's probably a lot of poker players that get wrecked because of that. They don't know that when they're starting out. Yeah, sure. Is that something you gotta learn along the way?

I mean, it was like a factor, but like, it also like in the early parts of my career you're not playing for super high stakes back then you know and you're playing smaller like you you just kind of learn along the way. Right. Were your stakes early on like was it gradual increase or were you kind of just one day you just decided to play really high stakes? I started when I was like 13 years old. I got a $25 transfer onto this poker site and I started buying like $5 games, you know?

So I started low and then built my way up from there. Oh God, it's a humble beginning. Wow, 13. That is an early start. BetMGM, authorized gaming partner of the NBA, has your back all season long. From tip-off to the final buzzer, you're always taken care of with the sportsbook Born in Vegas.

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I was a chess player when I was really young. Yeah, I want to talk about that because I'm a chess player. Not as good as you. I looked up your ELO. You hit 2000, right? I got up to 2170 and 2200 is master. Wow. That's always been a goal.

Still never quite got there. Do you want to potentially revisit that in the future? I think so, yeah. They say with chess, it's tougher as yielder. Yeah. I mean, definitely that's been the case. Um, there are also, I think like the things about getting cover, like you also, if you work really hard at it, like okay you're a professional basketball player, your skills

are going down and you're like 30s let's say. If you're just some guys playing really really casually, you know, just still definitely be getting better into your forties, you know? I feel the same about most things. I feel that. Yeah. With all the advancements in health and technology you see Ron playing at 40 now. Yeah.

And like, okay, maybe he's starting to decline, but like in a local lead, you can just definitely keep getting better. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. I've been at 1350 for, for can just definitely keep getting better. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. I've been at 1350 for, for eight months. I've been stuck man. Yeah.

That's the thing with chess. You just plateau and it's just like, you just stop getting this frustrating. It's so hard to get better at chess once you're at a certain level. Yeah. Like how long were you stuck at, at 2000? Maybe like a, um, two years. Wow. And then I kind of hung it up.

You got sick of it. Um, it just stopped being fun for me. Um, I realized I was like playing cause I was good at it, not because I enjoyed it. And I saw that like for me to make like the next jump like I maybe I could have been like a 2400 player in the US you know but like there's no future in that you know I just saw it would have been a ton of work and I think the path was there right yeah the money's often just really really tough like you're probably not making much at 2170. Basically zero.

I think to support yourself, you need to be like top 10, top 20 in the world. Wow. So it's like tennis. Yeah. Yeah, it's rough. And that's the thing with poker. You don't have to be top 10 to make a living. No, I mean, if you're just better

than the people you're playing against regularly, you'll win your fair share. So that's why you switched. Were you playing poker while you were playing chess simultaneously, or did that... There was plenty of overlap, yeah. There was plenty of overlap. Yeah. Interesting. I see a lot of chess players now getting into poker. Have you seen that?

Yes. I feel like there's always been like a good relationship between the two games, like mutual respect for... A lot of similarities in the mindset, you think? Some, and I also just think if you play one game competitively, like you kind of get it, you know? Yeah. And also I think a lot of chess players see people making money at poker

and like want to give it a whirl. Yeah, I see that. The luck factor is a rough thing to deal with though. In poker, right? Yeah, because in chess there's probably none. Yeah, the only luck I guess would be if your opponent is off or something. I mean, if two people are very similar in skill, who wins on a given day is going to come down to like various factors, you know? So there like is a luck factor. Like if you're, you play 10 games, one's supposed to get five and a half

out of 10, any given game, anything that happens, that is a variance or luck. But between two people who are different in skill, the guy just never wins. Yeah, 100%. You're not going to lose some random guy in chess, ever. Yeah. Have you been following the chess, the pros still? Yeah, I%. You're not gonna lose some random guy in chess, ever. Yeah.

Have you been following the chess, like, the pros still? Yeah, I enjoy it. I enjoy it, too. Who's your f— I was gonna ask you that. I like, uh, you're not gonna like this answer. I like Hans Nieman. It's... entertaining and he does have an interesting style.

I think he's just kind of, like, pretty mean a lot And he's got a chip on his shoulder because of what happened. But I liked the underdog story. That's why I like him and he's American. Um, I could, I mean, it's also, it is interesting. I got a lot of people into it. It did. Yeah. Who's your guy, Magnus? Magnus is just so unbelievably filthy.

You know, like it's just like completely in, I guess, Yeah. Who's your guy, Magnus? Magnus is just so unbelievably filthy. You know, like it's just like completely, and I can't imagine it. Like, I'll just have these positions where it just looks like it's completely even. And it's like, why are you even like continuing to play this on? And then he just grinds the guy down and he just does it over and over again. And like, I just can't understand how he's just that good. Yeah. Yeah.

His end game is insane. So many positions will be tied and he'll come out on top somehow. And yeah, like I literally don't know how he does it. It's nuts. And, and he, he drinks, he does other stuff. He's not just all about chess. Cause a lot of these chess guys are just chess 24 seven. Yeah.

But he actually plays poker on the side. He drinks and has fun. I think he clearly like values living his life and he's like, oh yeah, the world championship series isn't fun for me. I'm off it. Yeah. Yeah. He backed out. I mean, those classical games are brutal.

Yeah. On your mentally. Was that your format? Did you play a lot of classical? If you play in serious tournaments, that's what it comes down to. and I would do a lot of it. I played a tournament a couple of years ago here in Vegas in December when I was kind of rusty.

And I just remember thinking how insane it is that like, I was doing that at nine years old, you know? I was just like, I'm like, this is not appropriate for children. Wow. So you had really good mental fortitude at a very young age, which is impressive. Cause kids these days are just bouncing off the walls. I mean, probably plenty are, but also like there are a lot of kids these days who are just sick at

chest too. That's true too. Yeah. You got both ends. You got the Tik Tok brain, but then you got the people that have access to the information at such a young age because of social media and they're actually using it. Yeah. So yeah, you got both ends of the stick. And you see that with the Olympics, we win every year, but we're also one of the unhealthiest countries. But we got really good athletes on the other end of it.

Yeah. It's interesting, right? It is really interesting, unusual times to be alive. Where does the US rank in terms of poker professionals? Are we still the best country? I would be inclined to think so. It's a challenging thing to say, but yeah, I would say the US is probably the strongest if there's a lot of variants of poker too like Texas Hold'em you can play the mixed games

Omaha so I generally think about Texas Hold'em same yeah I was mainly asking about that cuz that's the biggest one yeah I would say the Americans are probably the best okay so I see some big games out there in Asia. There are some big games out there in Asia. Those aren't usually open to everyone, you know, like. The Triton games you're talking about. Triton, they have tournaments that are open to everyone and that's a format I love about poker, you know,

like 2 p.m. start, everyone with the money could show up. Great, and then sometimes they have like cash games I love about poker, you know, like 2 p.m. start, everyone with the money could show up, great. And then sometimes they have like cash games and those are like invitation only. They try to like make it such that the games aren't too tough. That's the thing. What do you think of this new era of these games being streamed on YouTube and social media?

I think they are making some good content. For me, some of like those really big poker games are more kind of like reality TV than like poker, you know? Yeah, yeah. I personally don't care to watch like a bunch of people, like just because like, Hey, they have $300,000 in front of them. If none of them really know how to play or they're like, they're intentionally

playing bad for me, I don't care to watch it. But like, if it's reality TV for some people and like they enjoy it, cool. Just for me personally, doesn't do it. I could see that, yeah. I asked that because I've actually never seen you play in those. So I wonder why you didn't like those live stream games. I've played sometimes, generally it's kind of political. And I mean, if you're running a poker game and you're having everyone buy in for $200,000

and you could be playing against me who's very good or this other person who's drinking and not very good, you're gonna make a lot more money with that other person in the table. Right, so yeah, you're a shark at that table. Yeah. That's probably why they're not inviting you as much as you used to get invited.

I get to play in those sort of games like a couple of times a year. And I enjoy it when I do. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, because you're just a fan of the game. So you want to see high quality poker being played. Yeah, if you're going to, if I was going to go the other route, I would just

rather like full on watch an episode of Jersey Shore than that, you know? I would say in a way it's good though overall because it's bringing a lot of new players. Would you agree with that? I think poker is doing quite well and I think the streams are a huge part of it. I'm actually not super knowledgeable about like the modern content era, but it does seem like YouTube poker stuff is like huge. It's crushing it. There's guys pulling up to the casinos in Vegas with cameras.

You've probably played at some of these tables and they're just filming every hand. And some people get annoyed, but it is interesting. Yeah, I think there's like a way to do it that's like respectful and doesn't slow down the game. And then also there are just some security concerns. Like if a phone is like, if you're playing really big money poker, there are gonna be people who are trying to like con you

and it's just like, okay, maybe like a new thing is like if a camera could like see the cards off the deck, you know? Hmm. Yeah, you never know. People have sneaky ways of cheating these days, right? Yeah. I mean, how's that happened to you where you were at a game and you felt like you got cheated or slighted? I don't think so, but it's something that you have to like be on the lookout for. Well, that's impressive because you played a lot of poker and I felt like that was a more common issue.

In some, I mean, to some degrees it probably does happen. If someone's going to be doing it and they're going to be good at it, it might be hard to catch. Yeah. But for the most part, the people that I play with I know and trust. I go to these Triton tournaments and I feel like really secure in the game security. Well I saw one clip of you with I think Martin Cabral. Was that in the World Series?

That was the WSOP 250k. Yeah and he was like staring at the back of the card and it was a whole. I mean it wasn't just that. It was that like I don't know if you saw this he was like doing this thing with like putting his nail into the card and it was a whole. And I mean it wasn't just that. It was that like, I don't know if you saw this, he was like doing this thing with like putting his nail into the card. Oh really? That kind of blew up in a sloppy way. I had some choice comments for him. If I could go back in time,

I would just have said something more along the lines of like if you are doing something like this into the card, whether you're marking it or you're not, that's against the rules and you don't get to play. Do you understand about card marking? No, I didn't know that was a rule actually. So the reason that cards work is when you see the back of the cards, their eye will look the same.

If you put marks back of the cards, their eye will look the same. If you put marks into some of them, you could be like, Oh, that has a they only using the carts once in the World Series? Um No, they use those cars, especially on TV. They use RFID cards. Yeah Which are more expensive They use the cards a bunch. Oh got it. And also like at some venues It is a thing that come up like you're asking for like new decks

Kind of regularly and they're like ooh each deck is like $20 but like sure but it's a quarter million dollar tournament. Yeah I saw some crazy stat where they use like so many cards at that tournament. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah I think he's an interesting player I feel like he does it on purpose just getting people's heads. I think it is definitely trying to unsettle people. Yeah I think that's part of the strategy because he's done it so many times, so many different games. So at this point, it's not a coincidence. Oh, yeah, yeah.

It's been a thing that's been happening for many years. Yeah, because when you are angry, you play different, right? They call it tilting. Yeah, some people, people handle emotions differently. But yeah, you can be frustrated or unsettled or like in the back of your mind if you're asking yourself

like is this game on the up and up? Right, your question. Then it's harder to play. Did you feel like he affected your play by doing that and you got angry? I think I was able to maintain my composure and play really well. I think I kept it together well and like,

I was able to use, I think I was able to use those emotions to be like, I'm gonna really lock in. Like, there are certain things when you play poker, like you know how there's a timer? Yeah. emotions to be like, I'm going to really lock in. There are certain things when you play poker, like you know how there's a timer? If you're being really diligent, the best thing to do is probably to act at 28 seconds every time so you don't have any timing tells. And in some situations, you're like, I already know what I'm going to do, I'm just going to act. Okay, it's like, you know what? I don't like the way this Martin guy's acting.

Every time I'm playing against him, I'm going to try to do everything perfectly. I'm not going to give him an inch. Interesting. I think I was able to use it to lock in. The game within the game. That's why I love poker. Because there's another game of it

that people don't see or think about. There are a lot of mind games and is even if things get like more technical and computer II Playing the player and just like I'm here you're there. This guy just bet all of his money. Does he have it or not? That's still a huge part of the game interesting when the computer started becoming everywhere Is that something you embraced right away or did it take some time? I And the computer started becoming everywhere. Is that something you embraced right away or did it take some time? I was a little resistant to it and kind of ironically, it was kind of what, part of what led me away from chess many years ago

when you started having to use the computer, it just became less fun, more technical. And then I saw that happening with poker. Deja vu, right? It makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, with chess, it was a big deal, right? It kind of ruined the fun for a lot of people. Yeah. It requires a lot of,

like it's a different kind of work and like, you could be very, very well prepared now, which is a huge advantage. Right. Yeah, cause I watched the old chess games on YouTube, like Bobby Fisher and Andrew Tate's dad, and they were all over the place. It was really fun to watch,

because they didn't have these engines telling them this was the best move. You know? It's just a complete game changer. And that's how poker was back in the day too, right? Yeah, like you used to be figuring stuff out coming up with some of your own strategies Now you could pretty regularly just like get the answer but it used to just be You're just guessing you know and like you think you have like a good strategy

But maybe there's just like a counter strategy that you didn't consider, you know Wow Yeah, cuz your opponent probably knows the right strategy too, so they'll kind of throw you off, right? Yeah, no doubt. Yeah, cause they know that you know. That's so funny, man. Yeah, cause everyone in the high stakes has the computers pretty much, they're using them, right?

I would say basically all of like the, if you're a very serious player, you're studying with it to some degree. And that's why even some of the amateurs too. Really? Wow. That's why I was surprised when Bryn Kenning came on. He said he doesn't use it at all and he's still getting pretty good results.

It Bryn's one of a kind. Right, but that's not a common thing. It is a very much not a common thing. Yeah. Yeah. And Helmuth is another one too but he's not playing the high stakes events. He doesn't really yeah he does like I would say like the biggest tournaments are where like the most serious competition goes down and he hasn't ever really been one to participate in those. What's the biggest buy-in you've played in? I have played in either three or four

one million dollar tournaments. Holy crap. I've had, and I've happened to have great results there. Three times in a row I got third place. Damn, it's impressive man, well done. It is impressive, also super fortunate. But yeah, it's a fun streak. What percentage of that was lucky then?

Because you say fortunate. On any given day, if you play a tournament, like say there's 50 players, if you're the best player in the field, maybe you'll win like one out of 35 times. Oh, that's it. Most of the time you just don't win, you know. So 3% chance if you're the best player in the field

to win a 50 person tournament. Yeah, and like. That's crazy. So anytime you win it is just hugely fortunate. Like luck is like the biggest factor, but like you can give yourself better chances to get lucky. Right. Because there's a lot of players

that will make the final table. So that to me is a lot of skill, right? Because if you're constantly making the final table, that's not just luck. Over a big enough sample size, like I've started playing the very big tournaments in 2012. The fact that I'm still around doing it is like, okay, now like the results are starting to be indicative.

But even like, you can just have a great year and maybe not be that skilled of a player, you know? Yeah, if you just play against people worse than you, right? Or no, you play against good people and you just happen to get lucky, you know? Right. You could be an underdog in a tournament and still win. Yeah, you've probably seen that all the time.

Does that annoy you when you see someone worse than you winning? No, I mean, it's just kind of, it's why you get to play poker for big money compared to chess, you know? Right. So you just got to embrace it. Yeah, at the end of the day, it'll never be all skill. to play poker for big money compared to chess. So you just got to embrace it. Yeah, out the end of the day, it'll never be all skill. There's gonna be luck involved.

And that's why it's a great game to gamble on relative to say chess or tennis. If you just know one side's gonna win, you're not gonna play for money. That's true, that's really cool. Are you playing anything online or are you all in person? I play very small amounts online.

I actually messed around last night on wsop.com, and I got second in the $500 mystery bounty event. Oh, nice. Yeah. I missed around on those events a little bit, but other than that, I don't play much online. Yeah. That's a small buy-in for you, $500. So I miss around on those events a little bit, but other than that I don't play much online. Yeah, that's a small buy-in for you, 500.

It was mostly like, yeah, it's a little something to do, you know, but yeah, it's on the small side. in Monte Carlo in like 10 days. And I did want to just get some reps and see some cards, like get the rust off. And mostly just like, it's a fun thing to do. Right. You say rust, so you haven't been playing for a little bit? The WSOP, I played through like early July and then it was a couple months playing very little, a few, and then there were some tournaments at the Aria a couple months playing very little.

There were some tournaments at the Aria a couple weeks ago. Got it. Generally, it's like I'll have like two weeks. Like when I go to Triton, I'll play every day. And then you get like a few weeks or a month off. Got it. Yeah, cause you probably get burnt out, right? Playing two weeks straight. Yeah, and also if you're playing like these tournaments,

like at try and basically every day, or if you win the tournaments, a million dollars, you come back to Vegas and like maybe the tournament that'll be going on will be like a 1K or 2K. Like it doesn't really like excite you. Yeah. Why do you think all the big tournaments are overseas? Not in the U.S.

Some of it is about like laws about getting the money the big tournaments are overseas, not in the US? Some of it is about laws about getting the money in there and also just the companies that run it are like Triton based in Asia. Yeah, that makes sense. I never even thought about the laws, but yeah, that's a lot of money. So anti-laundering, Lariat. And if you have like a million dollar tournament in London, you have to go through like the London bangs. Like it's much, it's more of a hassle than if like you say,

you're in Monte Carlo or the rules are a lot like smoother. Right, yeah, imagine wiring the money and they put it on hold and you're freaking out. Yeah. Damn, yeah, the money and they put it on hold and you're freaking out. Yeah Damn there. Yeah the money laundering thing. There was a casino like a week ago It might have been the Zorts world or something, but they just got a huge fine Because they were allowing people to gamble like high limits. Yeah, that seems to be have been happen a lot over the years Yeah, that makes sense because they're who knows where they got that money,

but yeah, that's a whole nother podcast. I want to talk about the health side of things. You bought a $10,000 cold plunge? Yes. That's awesome. What brand was that? I got the plunge one. Plunge one, plunge.com?

Yeah. I've been looking into that one. I would not get that one. Really? If you spent that kind of money on a cold plunge like the support aspect should be really good And when I've had issues that it's just been a complete disaster Wow Now that it's working a bit better. I'm like happy with it, but if I can go back in time I would have gotten a different product interesting. Yeah, some of them are really expensive, and I don't know what the the main difference is if I can go back in time,

get a great one for 5K instead of going up to the 13K ones. But generally as a thing, I absolutely love them, just maybe not the one I have. Yeah, that's probably what I'll do. I just got a 5K infrared sauna, so I want to do some hot, cold therapy. It's the best. I can't wait. I also have a sauna, it's just like,

basically every night before I go to bed. And it makes me feel wonderful. Yeah. Are you big into the biohacking health stuff? I try to take good care of myself. Some of like, I'm not like super crazy about it, but I try to be very active. I try to generally eat reasonably, you know, and like the things that I enjoy doing, I just, I do them every day.

I feel like any little edge at your level is worth it. Totally. And also just walking around feeling good is great. Yeah, because the diet, I mean, there's probably players that eat like shit, they don't even realize it's affecting the way they think when they're playing poker. Yeah.

Like, it could really get to your brain. Yeah, I feel that. Like, you see Negrano, who's vegetarian, it's interesting. Yeah. And I think there's a lot of different ways to eat in a way that you'll feel good and... But I think just knowing your lot of different ways to eat Have you done a gene test? I haven't. Look into those. It's really important information. I'll give it a whirl.

Yeah, shout out to Gary Brekka. That changed my life. I found out I had this, it's called the motherfucker gene, but yeah, MTHFR. Basically half the population has this and they don't even know. You can't eat pretty much all bread in the US. Or grains.

Which is a lot of different food in the US. Yeah, it's not something I'm super informed about, but like, I'd believe it. Yeah, all right, this was an interesting take you had. I'm big on food, and I saw you post your favorite restaurants in Vegas. You posted Ramen Boys is the best ramen in Vegas. Yeah. But not just Vegas, in the US, you posted Ramen Boys is the best ramen in Vegas. Yeah.

But not just Vegas, in the US, you said. That I've had. I absolutely loved it. I've been to Japan like five times, and ramen was the thing that really stood out. Have you had Ramen Boys? I haven't. It's unbelievable. Really?

Yeah. Okay. I'll go there tonight. I'll text you. I like it. I appreciate that. And then your best pizza spot. I've never even heard of this spot. Double zero pizza. Yeah. Growing up in New Jersey, I like pizza, East Coast thing. And the stereotype is it's hard to get good pizza on the West Coast, but I think that place is real good. And like fun vibes too. Okay, where is that? Also Chinatown, I want to say it's on Spring Mountain.

Okay, I love Chinatown. I'm there at least once a week. I feel like that's like the best food in Vegas for sure. I agree, yeah, slept on. Because the strip you're paying triple the price for the same thing. Yeah, some Vegas people are like totally anti strip I think it's worth doing sometimes, you know, like okay, you're paying up for a bit But like also some of the stuff is just cool good vibes. I agree. Yeah, I'll go there for an experience knowing

Knowing I'm gonna pay double or triple but it's it's fun night out with friends Yeah, I feel that a lot of locals Don't even go to the strip. I've heard that a lot Yeah, but it's kind of like whatever like if I want to go to the sphere and spend 200 bucks on dinner Have a fun night. Let's do it. It's a special thing that you get to do sometimes Have you seen any shows up the sphere? Not yet. Have you I saw the Eagles this weekend. Nice as a musical venue it the spheres just Not yet. Have you? I saw the Eagles this weekend. Nice. As a musical venue, the spheres are just unbelievable.

And like, it was a great show that they're older, but like they can still play. Yeah. I noticed all their musical acts are the older bands. So I can't really relate. Yeah. I think at some point they're going to get like more modern bands that and it'll be something that's cool, but I Would recommend seeing something there. Yeah, I might see that nature show there I wanted to see the UFC but it was sick you went to that too. Yeah Wow. I saw the videos it looked nuts. I Was very skeptical like I thought it wasn't gonna look good and then I get there and we're just like, oh, this is spectacular. Wow.

That's cool. Do you go to a lot of shows in Vegas? Whenever there's someone that I'm excited about seeing, I love seeing live music. When there's someone I'm excited about, I'll make a point to do it. That's one of the best parts about Vegas. For sure.

Every week there's something. Yeah. Something major. Now we're getting NBA NBA apparently, MLB. I'm excited about my real estate out here. Vegas has been doing some cool stuff the last several years. Yeah. You've been here a while.

I moved out here when I was 20 and then I keep leaving and coming back. Crazy. You ever think about retiring? Poker? I definitely have given it some thought. At this point I still really enjoy competing in the big tournaments. Like I'm going to Monaco for two weeks. I can't think of something that I would be doing that would be more enjoyable. Wow. Or maybe not like enjoyment, like it's hard competition,

but I think it's like a great part of my life and I enjoy it and I would need a compelling reason to give it up, you know? That's cool, that's really cool. Yeah, it sounds like you're fulfilled. I really, it's, yeah, it's just a, I play, there are some of the guys who play in these tournaments, they're billionaires with all of the resources in

the world, they can do whatever they want for enjoyment. They're playing these tournaments, you know? Like I think it's a compelling case that like, it's fun and exciting. Yeah, poker is great. It brings people together, right? Yeah. Sit at a table, meet new friends.

How do you treat the friendship versus competition aspect of it? Do you find yourself playing differently against your friends? Definitely not. Once you're not playing your best, you'll get run over. They're no friends at the poker table. Yeah, you're Michael Jordan out here. I love it. I love that dude.

Cause a lot of sports these days, well, I see this about basketball, especially they're all friends with each other. Like they played travel growing up and everything so it's like a different game it's not as physical you know hmm I yeah I suppose if you've like grown up with somebody maybe you'll be a little less inclined to like throw an elbow yeah but you got that switch that you could kind of turn off that friendship. I think it's just a matter of like, each hand you kind of have to play your cards the way they need to be played, you know? Yeah.

Regardless of who you're playing against. Any rivalries you have? People that you have gone up against a lot? It's probably like Cabral was like the most heated one over the years. But other than, I mean, there's been plenty of people that I've been competing with. Like I was saying, I started playing the big tournaments in 2012. There are some people that like you've been playing, that I've been competing with at that level basically since, you know?

What percentage of those guys are still around that you played with in 2012, you think? Maybe like 10%. That's it? Wow. People generally only are at the top for a few years and in some cases it's like, OK, people do retire. Either they're not winning anymore, or it's like, OK, time

to have a family or move on to something else. Wow, 10%. That's a lot lower than I thought it'd be. Just an off the cuff, maybe. But of people who were playing all of the big tournaments back then, I would guess that there are like around 10 who still compete at the highest level, you know? Wow. Yeah. You don't see the guys we used to watch on TV.

You don't see many of them around. I was talking to Nagraanu about this when he came on. There's not many. Yeah. And like the people that grew up on TV, I would say like they were even like a couple generations ago, you know, right? Like the Mike Mattis how types I don't even know that it's okay. I might have been too young for that one Like classic did you like watch WSOP on it like the moneymaker stuff That was I was like in middle school. But yeah yeah I caught like that was the first time I saw poker. Moneymaker. Yeah that's I saw that on TV and got

into it too. Yeah. He was a big name at that time you know. Right. He's still playing actually. Saw him in the World Series. Moneymaker? Yeah. Yeah he had a pretty good year either like last year or the year before. Yeah that was impressive. Moneymaker, man. So that's why you got into poker. That's crazy. See it on TV. You were 13, you said, right?

Yeah. Chess I was like kind of struggling with. I was plateauing. I couldn't make the master title. And I saw poker on TV. And it's just like, they are playing so much less seriously, you know? Yeah. Like even like a low level chess tournament, people are locked trying their hardest. on TV and it's just like they are playing so much less seriously, you know?

Like even like a low level chess tournament, people are locked trying their hardest. I'm like, yo, they're playing for a huge prize. I'm like, no one's even trying. It's weird. I only play five minute chess because five minutes, I would say, by the end of the game, you're always just super rushing, you know, and I think it is nice to sometimes play games where you can actually play out the end. Fair, yeah.

But then you're spending 30 minutes on a game of chess rather than 10. Right, yeah, five to 10 is- It's a huge jump. It is, yeah, five to 10 is. It's a huge jump. It is, yeah, you don't have time in five minutes to think. Some people play one minute. Yeah, I dabble with it. Oh yeah, what's your rating in one minute?

2400. Holy crap, oh, so you are a master in one minute. Online ratings are inflated, like the master title IV for like only over the board and like the online to Over the board ratings. Yeah, there's like a Conversion thing there, you know, what causes that? More players I think so there's probably some inflation and just different rating systems

Like I don't exactly know the math behind it, but inflation and just different rating systems. subtract a couple hundred points from your online rating to get your in-person rating. Damn, that's humbling for me because I've been telling everyone I'm a 1350 but I'm probably like an 1150, 1200. Hard to say, like I just, but maybe. No, but you're right because I've seen it all the time. When I played in Times Square in New York, I got wrecked. Those guys are tough. Those guys are good.

Have you ever played out there? Yeah. I would generally played out there? Yeah. I would generally play at Washington Square Park. Nice. But yeah, it's kind of like a New York tradition. Yeah, I knew I was screwed when he didn't even tell me his rating. He wouldn't tell me.

I was like, all right, this guy's really good. Yeah. Yeah, no, that's a bucket list item to play out there. It was a fun time. Absolutely. I love going to New York. Yeah, shout out that's a bucket list item to play out there. It was a fun time. Absolutely. I love going to New York. Yeah, shout out to New York. Growing up in Jersey, I actually didn't like it growing up.

I didn't have money to enjoy it. Being able to spend some money makes a huge difference. Massive. Yeah. Well, man, what's next for you? I know you got some tournaments coming up, what else? So I run this charity called Double Up Drive. Well, man, what's next for you? Our drive is going to go live this year, I believe December 3rd. So we're in the phase of like pulling money together, getting like the back-end stuff ready to go.

Is it in Vegas? It's mostly online, the general premises. I pick out 10 or rather we pick out 10 organizations. premises. If you say wanted to support mental health, you could pick out the Strong Minds charity. Any money that you donate, our team will double. It's both an efficient way to get involved and you could trust that we've done a good job like the vetting process. So like all of the organizations involved are reputable and doing good things with the

money. I love that. I'll link it below and I'll donate some money to it. Thank you. I appreciate that. For sure. Thanks for coming on Dan. That was fun.

It was wonderful. Thanks for watching guys. Check out the link below. See you next time.