Digital Social Hour - Why Your Dating App Strategy is FAILING You | Sabrina Zohar DSH #948
Episode Date: December 4, 2024Struggling with dating apps? 🤔 Your strategy might be missing the mark, but not for the reasons you think. Join relationship expert Sabrina Zohar as she breaks down why most dating advice fails and... what psychology really tells us about finding connection. Discover why generic dating rules don't work, how attachment styles impact your relationships, and the truth about "red flags" that nobody's talking about. Learn why ghosting actually reveals more about the ghoster than the ghosted, and get practical tips for authentic dating in the digital age. From navigating dating apps to building genuine connections, Sabrina shares her journey from New York to LA, revealing how therapy and self-discovery transformed her approach to relationships. Whether you're frustrated with dating apps or trying to build deeper connections, this conversation offers fresh perspectives on modern dating. Get ready for real talk about relationships, healing, and why most dating advice misses the mark. Plus, hear Sabrina's wild Shark Tank story and how it led her to completely pivot her career! Perfect for anyone ready to ditch the games and build authentic connections. 💕 Join host Sean Kelly for this eye-opening conversation about modern dating, psychology, and finding real connection in a world of swipes and likes. Hit subscribe for more candid conversations about life, business, and relationships! 🎯 #selfimprovement #moderndating #mentalhealth #relationshipadvice #datingadvice CHAPTERS: 00:00 - Intro 00:26 - Sabrina’s Journey 03:17 - First Date Expectations 04:43 - Social Media Comparison 04:58 - BetterHelp Overview 07:13 - Reasons for Ghosting 09:08 - Staying in Toxic Relationships 13:34 - Understanding Attachment Styles 17:05 - Misuse of "Narcissist" 18:30 - Facebook Groups for Dating 22:15 - Friendship with Exes 23:45 - Discussing Body Count 25:31 - Red Pill Podcast Experience 27:42 - Exploring Open Relationships 29:33 - OnlyFans Discussion 32:34 - Shark Tank Experience 36:18 - Returning to Shark Tank 36:45 - Launching a Clothing Brand 38:09 - Finding Sabrina Online 38:14 - Final Thoughts APPLY TO BE ON THE PODCAST: https://www.digitalsocialhour.com/application BUSINESS INQUIRIES/SPONSORS: jenna@digitalsocialhour.com GUEST: Sabrina Zohar https://www.instagram.com/sabrina.zohar/ https://www.sabrinazohar.com/ SPONSORS: BetterHelp: https://www.betterhelp.com/DSH LISTEN ON: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/digital-social-hour/id1676846015 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5Jn7LXarRlI8Hc0GtTn759 Sean Kelly Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seanmikekelly/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Transcript
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Everyone and everyone seems to know and it's frustrating
because I think a lot of the advice that we see
isn't actually rooted in psychology.
So it's a lot of like, why do all men do this?
And you're like, well, there's 9 billion people.
So to speak for every single person
in a sweeping generalization just seems irresponsible.
So I like to cut through that noise
and ultimately bring it back to like,
what's happening with you, not really focusing on like,
why do these people keep doing this to you?
All right guys, from San Diego, we got Sabrina here.
Thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me, Sean. Hello podcast host. Hell yeah, dude, from San Diego, we got Sabrina here. Thanks for coming on.
Thanks for having me, Sean.
Hello, podcast host.
Hell, yeah.
Dude, I'm stoked.
Absolutely.
And your show's about dating, right?
Relationships.
Dating, relationships, and ultimately doing the work to heal.
So you went through your own journey and wanted to teach others, basically?
Yeah, it was one of those that maybe you can relate, maybe you can't, that I never thought
it was going to happen.
I just was going through it and seeing all this content and adjusting all this stuff, just saying like,
hey, this just doesn't resonate.
I don't understand what you guys are saying.
Why are you keep using these like same,
you know, 140 characters or less type like taglines?
And as I started going on my journey,
going to therapy, understanding, wait a minute,
all the things that you're telling me to do
are not yielding the results in relationships.
And when I started to change that dynamic
and then started to realize my relationships were changing
and my experiences, that's when I realized like,
hey, I think I need to share this
because there feels like a disconnect.
Right, yeah, because a lot of people
try to give relationship advice.
So many people try to get, it's like having an asshole.
Everyone seems to have one and everyone seems to know.
And it's like, it's frustrating
because I think a lot of the advice that we see
isn't actually rooted in psychology.
So it's a lot of like, why do all men do this?
And you're like, well, there's 9 billion people.
So to speak for every single person
in a sweeping generalization just seems irresponsible.
So I like to cut through that noise
and ultimately bring it back to like,
what's happening with you, not really focusing on like,
why do these people keep doing this to you?
There is a lot of broad statements on social media.
There's a lot, we love the, if you wanted to, he would.
If you like, if they like you, you'll know if not,
you'll be confused.
And it's like, okay, do those have a place?
Yeah, maybe if the guy doesn't call you,
well, he doesn't want to call you.
You're like, okay, well there's that.
But when we start to utilize those of like,
oh, this person didn't want a relationship.
Well, if you wanted to, he would.
It's like, we're using quite a broad statement
to examine and understand somebody who may have like severe trauma,
triggers, is dealing with a lot of things personally.
Maybe this isn't a priority.
Maybe we don't know how you've been coming off as well.
And I think what it does is it mitigates accountability.
And I think that's what we're really seeing now
in the dating landscape is like,
there's very little accountability,
very little communication,
and just a lot of like fear that's driving the car.
And then we wonder why we're not connecting.
Yeah, that makes sense.
You take a personalized approach.
I try to.
I try to at least, like when we're speaking to the masses,
of course, I'll make a video and let's say people are like,
well, this isn't my experience.
It's like, well, yeah, of course.
My lived experience won't be everybody else's,
but the point of it is to give broader perspectives.
My partner and I slept together on the first date.
It's such, oh yeah.
We are the ultimate taboo couple, met online.
Like met on a nap, my dog had just passed away.
I was like, fuck this, I don't want a relationship.
I'm just gonna go out with this guy.
We had a great time, we hooked up,
and I was like, if I never see him again, great.
And it's like, here we are two years later.
Like looking at rings and talking about engagement.
Because I think at the end of the day,
sure, for some people that doesn't work and for
15 years didn't really pan out for me, but that doesn't mean that every person's the same
Yeah, you hear that one all the time if you sleep with her on the first day. She's not wifey
I'm curious your thoughts person as a man personally. What are your thoughts on that? I would probably turn off for me
I waited six months
I mean, I feel like that's excessive for most people but first date for me probably wouldn't and see that's just based off numbers
Okay, like statistically cuz I'm pretty analytical
Yeah, like if you were to look at couples that slept on the first date
I'd be curious to see a study on this and see it like if they panned out
I think there had I've looked into a quite a few studies and like quite a few of them have shown that a lot of the healthier
And successful relationships and it's not this isn't a sweeping generalization, but it's the fact that like, I think what it is,
is that we have to look at intentions. It's not about the physicality aspect. It's really
about like, what is this? Does this person have the bandwidth for a relationship? Do
they have intentions for one? Because when my partner and I did that on the first date,
I left saying, well, if I never see him again, that's okay. I'm a woman I had needs. I just
want to have fun. But I made it clear to him, if you're going to pursue this, I'm not doing the casual thing. Like we had that fun. And he was fine with that. And. I'm a woman. I had needs. I just want to have fun But I made it clear to him if you're going to pursue this I'm not doing the casual thing like we had that fun and he was fine with that
And so I think it's also about how you show up as a person
But I I've been talking to a lot of people and a good portion of people have said ah, yeah
We slept together early and got it out of the way
But I also have so much respect for people like you who are saying hey that doesn't work for me
I know wait
But I think the ultimate thing is looking at, does that work for me?
Not is the internet telling me to do this?
Oh, I have to play the game and make him chase me.
Okay, well, you're doing it for other people
then you're not doing it authentically for yourself.
You want to wait, do what feels right.
Yeah, absolutely, I agree.
Do you see a lot of people trying to compare
on social media?
I mean, I feel like that's what social media
does so well, right?
Yeah.
And I fall victim to that as well, right?
Like I think we are as humans, it's so easy
because when we start to compare what that's actually saying
is like that's an insecurity.
I don't.
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I think I could actually do it as well as this person.
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Why can't I?
What's happening?
And we have to remember social media shows us the highlights.
Right?
Like it shows us the blooper reel of
look how beautiful that relationship is.
And then all of a sudden, six months later,
you find out like the guy cheated on her
and she got pregnant and then it's like all this crazy shit,
but oh, that photo looked so good. So I think what's happened is between social media movies Disney
You know all the I think about I'm 34 the Backstreet Boys like some of the lyrics you're like, oh no wonder
I thought that love was gonna be something it wasn't it's highly set up for unrealistic expectations
and then I think we start to compare on social media because we have zero data besides a photo.
And so it just leads to, I think that mindset just kind of being reaffirmed of
like, I'm not good enough.
I can't have this.
Yeah.
I'm sure you're seeing that with a lot of young women, right?
It's really, it breaks my heart.
Cause I, I would love people.
I think that's why my partner and I are so open about how we communicate and
stuff, cause I will be the first to be like, Oh no, I got triggered.
Like that annoyed me.
And then this is how we talked about it.
Because a healthy relationship isn't the absence of conflict.
A healthy relationship doesn't mean
that you guys just agree on everything
and everything goes well.
A healthy relationship means you have conflict and repair.
That you can have an issue with your partner,
repair it, have a conversation, understand them,
understand yourself, express boundaries, things like that,
and then move on together.
As opposed to having how many times you see you're like, why you guys are fighting about
same thing, and then now it's mushroomed into 20 other things because no one's really listening
to the other. And that's, I think, like I did a video the other day about don't do a ghosting.
It went viral, okay. And there was so many people saying ghosting is so hurtful, please don't do it.
Like guys, please just say something. But then there's the other opposite of, I'd rather be ghosted.
I don't wanna have to say this.
That sounds like HR.
And it's like, no, no, it's just emotional immaturity.
If you're so scared of having a direct conversation
and just telling somebody, hey, I'm just not interested,
very basic, then how are you gonna have
a successful relationship where that requires
constant communication?
Mm, that makes sense.
So instead of ghosting, you'd recommend them
just to be straight up?
I'm a big fan of straight up.
Now I understand, and I've seen,
I mean, I dated for 15 years in New York and LA.
So like, I'm not like-
Those are two different markets.
Two very different markets.
And I'm not saying that because the reason I share that
is like, I was in the trenches.
I was online dating.
I was getting, I was dealing with all the same shit.
And for me personally, when somebody would ghost me,
that was a very clear example
of what they're going through, right?
I don't need to internalize the fact
that this person couldn't just tell me.
On the other token, I hear this all the time of,
well, when I say something, the person freaks out.
It's like, okay, but you're not doing it for them.
You're doing it for you.
And if this person freaks out
because you told them you don't wanna see them,
I'd love to know what you think is gonna happen
when you just never contact them again.
You think they're not gonna freak out.
And it's just because I think a lot of people ghost
in general simply because either it's a scared,
a lack of confrontation, I don't wanna hurt someone else,
I don't wanna feel responsible for hurting somebody else,
I don't wanna deal with their emotions,
I don't wanna deal with my own
because then I'm gonna have to process through this,
so a lot of the times it's easier to just be like,
they don't exist to me,
but unfortunately it really hurts people.
So I would personally suggest,
cause I get this too of, well, they're dangerous
or they'll freak out.
And it's like, well, then I have to ask
what you're doing dating somebody
that you feel so unsafe to even just end it,
but yet you had no problem dating this person.
It's a bit of a disconnect.
Right. Do you see a lot of people
like staying in relationships they shouldn't be?
The pendulum swings.
So you'll either get where it's just too quick to walk away where you're like,
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
All the person said was like, they couldn't make dinner.
And all of a sudden you're like waiting them off or the guy didn't text you for
three hours and next thing you know, the person's been blocked.
So I think there's that there's like the two extremes of staying way too long.
Um, and like, you know, not, and then going the opposite of not having any kind
of, um, capacity or space for anything uncomfortable.
So for me, it's like, yes, we see people very often that are very clearly, I think the number
one question I get is it'll be like a paragraph of how terrible this person is. And they're just,
I don't feel heard. They dismiss me. They're super rude to me, they don't call me, they gaslight me,
and you're like, okay, so these are all great reasons to walk away.
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What do I do?
And I think what we see, and what I see a lot, is there's a lack of self-trust of,
oh, I can't make that decision for myself.
And so I'm trying to encourage people,
like, hey, if it doesn't feel right,
then this is the moment to walk away,
if you cannot have conflict and repair.
If you can't just, if I were dating you, Sean,
and you were treating me like absolute shit,
and every time I went to you to say something
and you were gaslighting me,
if I stay, what does that say about me?
It's not about shame or blame, I don't need to have judgment. But what that says is,
ooh, boundaries are uncomfortable for me. I learned at a young age that maybe this is all
I'm deserving and worthy of because I'm too scared to even walk away. I'm scarcity mindset.
I may not find anyone else. So there's a lot of things that start to kind of play in as to why
we stay too long. So the conflict is the key, like growing from that basically.
Conflict is, that's growth.
I hate to say it and discomfort.
Sitting in discomfort, it's like,
do I go work out every day
because I love how hard it feels to do squats?
It's like, no, but I know the end result
is it's gonna be good for me, it's gonna be better.
I'm going to yield results.
And when it comes to relationships,
we grow through what we go through.
You grow through repair and conflict.
And so when my partner and I have an issue,
I could shut my mouth and then just be resentful
and walk around like a, like just salty,
or I could just be very direct and be like,
hey, what you said the other day
was really, really hurtful to me.
And I just wanted to share how that impacted me
and moving forward.
Instead of saying this, would you mind saying this?
That would just be more supportive for me.
Right? And you're like, great, I don't have to guess.
Thank you for giving me a very clear roadmap
of like how I can satisfy your needs.
And then you have a conversation,
hey, that doesn't work for me, okay,
well what would work for you?
And you come because then what happens?
After the conflict, I felt so seen, heard and understood.
Thank you for giving me the space to express myself,
thank you for validating me.
You start to feel closer to your partner
versus you have this conflict
and then you're both, I'm gonna walk away
and no one's gonna talk about it.
You're not actually getting any closer, any deeper.
Right, you're just pushing it to the side.
Right, and especially if that's a dynamic
that we're used to, right?
We have to look at, and this isn't about,
I think a lot of people misconstrue attachment theory
as like, oh, I don't wanna live in the past,
not everything is my childhood.
But what we do have to look at is if you're having patterns, where did
you learn that behavior from?
If you cannot communicate to partners, where did you learn that from?
Did you come from a household?
And it doesn't mean your parents were bad people.
Those are two conflicting thoughts.
I can love my parents and also know they didn't teach me what I needed to be taught.
And so we also really have to look at that, strip away the shame and blame and just
start to get curious of like, oh yeah, when I was a kid my dad was emotionally unavailable.
He never really expressed himself
and when he did he would walk out.
So I learned I'm too much and there's something,
okay, so now I can go and heal those parts
and then not project them onto every person I date.
Yeah, because a lot of the stuff as a kid
you kind of project in a relationship, right?
Oh yeah, I mean, let's think about our brain.
Our amygdala stops growing when we're six.
That's so unfair because our prefrontal cortex doesn't grow into a 28.. Our amygdala stops growing when we're six. That's so unfair, because our prefrontal cortex
doesn't grow until we're 28.
So the amygdala is where we hold onto feelings and emotions.
So if at four, you would get hit every time you said
something, your brain is only going to remember this isn't
safe.
And so when you're 30 and someone says something,
like your parents did when you were six,
your brain is automatically going
to shut the prefrontal cortex off
and go right into the limbic system
because it understands this is too overwhelming,
I need to keep them safe.
And it shuts down.
So then when we actually have some space
and we can say, whoa, whoa,
the pinch doesn't match the ouch,
I just freaked out on my partner
because they said they didn't wanna go to dinner
where I wanted to go, right?
Okay, let me start to understand
what's happening in my body, dah, dah, dah.
So usually where we look is you learned it somewhere and then your brain holds on to
that and as we get older, because we're so stressed and things, our brain will shut down
a lot quicker because it is trying to protect us.
Yeah.
What do you think of all those tests like the attachment styles and the love language
test?
Do you have your partners take those?
Honestly, nah.
Okay.
I think they're important in the sense to understand yourself.
Right? I understand it like when I first learned about attachment theory. I'll preface prior to that. I thought it was fucking crazy
I thought there was something wrong with me. I just kept looking around being like I guess no one else goes through this
I guess I'm just a bad apple. So when I learned that I was like, huh
I have anxious attachment style. It just made me feel oh, I'm I'm not fucked up. There's actually, okay, I can, that's it,
but that's where it stops.
What I see so often is people use attachment theory
to diagnose other people, and that's not what we're doing.
If you have so much data that the person you're dating
is the avoidant, they're an avoidant and they,
da, da, da, da, da.
Okay, so you know so much about them,
but yet now what about you? Right?
And so if you're acknowledging, and for anyone who doesn't know attachment theory, how you
attach to your parents and early childhood and your caregivers, there's three insecure,
one secure, secure attachment.
They understand interconnected and interdependence.
So you can be alone and also with a partner, and they don't take things as personally.
They were taught in the home at a young age that emotions are safe, that you're valid
for having them.
Then you have the three insecure.
You have the avoidant who shuts down.
Very common that we hear right now,
the anxious avoidant trap.
And they're same, same, but different.
Both of them fueled by the fear of abandonment,
fueled by the fear of rejection, manifesting differently.
One person's outward, one person's inward.
Really where it stems from.
So it's important to understand, like love languages,
important to understand for yourself,
how do you like to give and receive love?
Because for instance, when I met my partner, big on cooking.
Big cooker, and I think it was like our third date,
he said, why don't you come over, I'll make you dinner.
And he had the movie, and like, it was a dinner.
This wasn't just like Netflix and chill.
But we did that for like four or five dates.
And I remember at one point saying like,
hey, I feel like this is now kinda turning
into something casual.
And he instantly was like, absolutely,
let me take you out, like you're right.
Let me show up in the ways that you need.
But had I not looked and gone,
wait a minute, that's his love language, acts of service.
He's making me food.
He wants to take care of me in that way.
Gift giving might not be his thing.
And so the reason I think it's important
to just learn about them is so that we don't overlook
how people are trying to love you
in their ways that make them feel comfortable.
So gift-giving, if you're like, I want flowers,
well, that person might not buy you flowers,
but they make your coffee every morning for you
and they make sure that everything's prepped.
So can we look at how they're trying to love you
and assess if that works for you?
Yeah, I love that.
Yeah, that was an important test for me, actually.
Was it?
What did you come up with?
I'm acts of service as well. But you know, other people would have like physical touch or something.
So you got to love in that way.
Curious, was acts of service for you give and receive?
Yeah, I think.
Do you prefer that?
I think it was number one or two in both.
That's awesome.
You see what I mean? Like you learn about yourself and you can become a better partner.
No, I learned a lot because physical touch was last for me.
Really?
But for partners I've had, it's been number one for them.
So I've had to learn how to adapt, you know?
Yeah.
Do you resonate with all of,
like did you feel when you were doing this,
like, fuck yeah, I see the point in this.
At first I was like, this is stupid.
Like, I'm not gonna lie.
Like, why am I taking this?
But those tests, you do learn a good amount.
I've taken the 16 personalities one also.
Oh yeah.
Have you tried that one? I have, I can't, it's the one with the letters. Yeah. I keep forgetting. People are like,
you're this. Yeah, that one's cool. I love the dark triad test though. I make all my friends take
that one. It measures your worst traits. Shut up. Yeah. Oh, narcissism, Machiavellianism,
one other one. Okay. When we're offline, I'm gonna need to get that. Yeah. Because I'm curious.
It's a good one to have your friends take. And I'm glad you brought the word of narcissism.
That has been, that's been a hijacked word.
It's a weird word to use around this,
but it's been a term that's been so inappropriately used.
I don't know about you, if you see that.
I see it a lot.
Right.
I think a lot of people misconstrue someone who's selfish
for someone who's narcissistic.
I grew up in a household with a narcissistic caregiver,
so I very much understand it.
And I think it's interesting again to learn about it,
but when we, if you're diagnosing the person
that you're with and you're just so confident
to diagnose them, then we really have to look and say,
what else can you use that information for?
Right.
People are quick with labels these days.
I'm sure you see it all over.
All over.
Every comment, my narcissist, you're like, oh, they're yours, okay. I didn't realize that. And it's like, and then I'll ask what
made them narcissist. Well, they were super selfish. It's like, that's not a narcissist.
Yeah. Cause then you combine that with the victim mentality and they're using these labels
as an excuse almost now. And it's like, dude, exactly. You know, I've been labeled so many
different things, but I'm not out here using that as a crutch. I remember one person called
me a narcissist on the internet
and I said, can I ask you what was it about?
What made you say that?
And they said, will you talk about yourself?
And I was like, oh my God.
It's just like, I was like, you mean when I was telling
a story about my experience on my channel, on my plan?
Like you have to stop and you're like, okay,
that's where I mean, but you just don't understand
what that means.
And that's okay, there's no shame against that,
but don't use words that are very heavy
to diagnose other people.
And especially in those,
are we dating the same guy Facebook groups?
That's a group.
Oh, Sean.
What?
Have you not been,
can I let you into the world?
Okay, so there are thousands of these groups called,
are we dating the same guy?
And there's every city, there's a chapter for San Diego
and Senitas, Carlsbad, like every town.
Thousands.
On paper, I understand the point of these groups.
Like a client I had, she found out her husband
was cheating on her from those groups.
Really?
Five girls had posted this photo and her
and her friend found it and was like homegirl.
No way.
Right, so that's how she found out.
So I get how sometimes you're like,
okay, there is a time and a place,
but I've had so many people write in.
I've had clients even tell me
they'll show me the screenshots
and they're like, I have nothing to hide.
Girls that will post them on that group
simply because the guys told her,
I'm not interested in seeing you again.
What?
And girls will say, you know, he's this
and he's such a piece of shit
and they'll go off and they're harassing this guy.
Some will post photos.
I've had guys that have lost their job because of it,
because employers are like, hey, what's happening here?
And like, again, I had one girl saying like, oh, well, you
know, sorry that men have to take accountability.
And it's like, yeah, but you're not.
It's so easy for you to start spreading,
but here's the reality.
My partner and I had very different experiences
than girls he's dated.
Because girls he's dated have had such high anxiety
that they have no problem projecting their shit onto him
and he'll set a boundary and say, I'm not doing this.
They'll villainize him.
He didn't want to listen to me and it's like,
it's not, that's not what happened.
And so the issue I think that we see with those groups
is you're getting one side of the story
and then you're villainizing this guy,
but we don't really know what happened.
We don't know how did you show up, right?
Take a look at those Facebook groups.
That's crazy.
I actually had to stop.
I had a Facebook group for like the community
when I first started the podcast last year.
I had to get rid of it because it turned into that
where it was, and I kept saying,
stop posting personal photos, phone numbers,
screenshots of these people.
That's not, they didn't consent to that
and that actually, I would be quite upset if someone did.
Yeah, that's not cool.
A lot of people bad mouth their ex.
Yeah, I was gonna say, how do you feel about that
if you were on a date with a girl
and she's bad mouthing her ex?
It's a huge red flag to me.
Like, that's terrible,
because that's how they're gonna talk about you.
My ex called all of his exes crazy on our first date
and I remember being like, oh my God.
I can say, I was, don't worry,
I was on the list of crazy by the time we were done with it
because you find out why they're all crazy.
I'm a big fan of, listen, if you want to talk about like,
hey, how'd your last relationship been
and what did it teach you about yourself?
It's like, oh yeah, like, you know,
I realized we weren't compatible,
but I went to the therapy, you're like, okay, cool,
this person's growth minded,
they've processed the relationship next.
I don't give a fuck about your ex,
I don't care about the fact that your ex was this
and this and this, because at the end of the day,
I want accountability.
If I'm coming to you saying my ex was a narcissist
and he was a raging piece of shit,
okay, well, what was my part in this?
I'm not just always a woe is me, everything happens to me.
Well, but I also played a part in this.
And my part personally, because I was,
if anyone wants to try and say I'm victim blaming,
that was personal story. I was super insecure.
I was anxious.
I had no boundaries.
I allowed it.
And I really thought him choosing me
was more important than me choosing me.
Wow.
But you took that accountability.
Right.
But that's what I mean by like when you're in a date,
imagine you're on and you're like,
oh, wait, that's actually a green flag.
This person has no problem sharing,
sure her ex was this,
but she understands her part in it.
That's more important than, I mean, I've heard was this, but she understands her part in it.
That's more important than, I mean, I've heard some,
nightmare stories of women on dates.
Have you ever had that where girls just like
shitting their ex the whole time?
Like, what do you do?
I've heard about it, yeah.
Have you ever had that?
I haven't, my friends have dealt with that though.
Do they leave or do they just entertain it?
They just entertain it, got to pay the bill
and then never talk to them, I guess.
And that's where, and then here's the thing,
then those girls will post the guys in the Facebook group
being like, he ghosted me, he didn't wanna see me,
and you're like, yeah, but girl, how'd you show up?
That's the perfect example of,
well, that's only one side of the story.
Right.
What do you think about being friends with exes?
I don't get the point.
Okay, there's nuance.
You have children, that's one thing.
Like, obviously you have kids, do what's best for the children. Doesn't mean you need to be quote unquote friends. You have children, that's one thing. Like obviously you have kids,
do what's best for the children.
Doesn't mean you need to be quote unquote friends.
You can be cordial.
I think friends with an ex,
it's the type of thing that if both of you were to let,
hey, you know, both of you are like,
hey, I'm just, I'm not feeling this.
I think we're better off as friends.
When both are mutual about that, fine.
But the reality is when you get into a new relationship,
you have to be okay with the fact that your new partner might not be okay with that
But and there's a time like and it's not about your new partner is telling you to be friends with
But I had that my my ex and I were really good friends after we broke up because it was very mutual
And when I got with my new partner, he said listen, it makes me really uncomfortable
Like you guys had a year relationship. I just I don't see why you need to be alone with him
Fair I respect you and I think that is a very valid ask.
So I think there is nuance and it depends because it's not, it's not
necessary to gaslight people of like, Oh, what, she's just my friend.
Nothing happens.
And it's like, yeah, but that's not instilling confidence.
You're not making your partner see, feel validated.
You're gaslighting them to make them feel like they're insane for even asking.
So I think if it's an issue, talk about it.
And if it's not, your friends,
if your partner's cool with it, great.
I just, I don't personally see the point.
Do you?
I agree, no, I agree.
I wouldn't want my fiance being friends with their ex.
Have you ever stayed friends with an ex?
Yeah, but I still had feelings for her.
So that's what I mean.
Like those feelings are tough to get away from.
And usually when it's mutual, you're like,
all right, well, have a good life.
I'm good.
Has the Red Pill Movement brought a lot of hate your way,
like all this body count stuff and all that?
I, well, that'll be a video I'll be doing soon.
So I don't think on body count.
No, OK.
I am the type of person that if somebody else's body count
bothers you, that's you, right?
To me, if somebody were to ever judge me,
like I'll be honest, I had my hoe hat on
for a long time living in New York,
because I connected physically with men.
I was insecure and I had my own trauma.
And intimacy was really scary for me.
So great, I'll just connect with my body
and I'll sleep with you and then we're done.
And for me to be judged now in my adult life
for something that was really coming from a trauma
would be highly irresponsible for the other person to do
because you're not allowing me to grow.
You're not allowing me to evolve and change.
You're holding me to the girl that I was,
but you're not allowing me to be the woman that I am.
And so I think that's where it becomes just dicey.
Again, I will respect if body count is important, fine.
That's on you and you and that person.
But I hear it all the time, women on dates saying,
I was insulted, especially on a first date.
Have you heard about that?
People are asking about first date.
Yeah.
First date being like, what's your body count?
It's like.
On a first date?
I'm sorry, homie, but you wanna never fucking get laid
or spoke to again.
Don't ask that.
Like if it's that important, ask before you go on the date
of like, hey, I'm someone who's a lot more conservative.
I really don't wanna be with someone that's slept around.
Sexual health is important to me.
But it's still with that, go get tested, right?
Even fucking LabCorp on demand has like,
you can go walk into a clinic now and get your STI testing.
So if there are issues, let's talk about it.
But I would be curious for the people
that have such an issue with body count,
where does it stem from?
What's the issue?
And like I said, if that's a thing,
I respect everybody personally, I don't give a fuck,
I'm not trying to change other people's mind.
But if it does bother you, say something.
It's these podcasts, man.
Would you ever go on like a Fresh and Fit
or one of those Red Pill podcasts to debate them?
Honestly, my mama has always taught me like,
you can please some of the people some of the time,
but you can't please all the people all the time.
And for me, I am much more
In the school of thought of I'm going to resonate
I'm going to speak my truth and if you want to join me come but I don't need to convince you to join me
So I think going on those could I sure but if somebody is
Misogynistic or old-school or sees of either judging people
It's like me having one quick conversation with them
isn't going to be doing enough.
Like, oh, that person needs fucking therapy.
So have you been on them?
No, but I've had a couple of them on my show, I think.
Have you?
Yeah.
Not fresh and fit, but a couple of those like red pill guys,
one guy's named Rollo, Michael Sartain.
Like I said, there's someone for everybody.
You know, it's like, it's the same with these women
that want provider mentality.
I want someone to do all this and it's like,
hey baby, let me just let you know,
ain't nothing in life is free.
So you wanna go for a dude that's gonna pay for everything
and take care and you don't have to lift a finger?
Well, what are you doing for him too?
Cause I think women forget, we never were able to vote.
Sex was a currency and it wasn't even sometimes by choice.
And so oftentimes, so up until what?
We were allowed to have jobs?
We didn't have a way of reciprocating back.
So it was very well known,
man takes you to dinner, you sleep with him.
That's just what the,
that was a transaction that has been going on for decades.
Wow, I didn't know that.
Very, very, yeah.
If you actually look at like the deep rooted
like sexual history.
Now I'm not saying, yeah, and I'm not saying that's good or bad
But I'm just saying like that's kind of where it's stemmed from so again if we're gonna come from that
I want the provider mentality low body count. It's like, okay. Well, then what else comes with that?
Are you going to be cooking and cleaning in the house? Okay. Well, if you want a man, that's that
Specific I'm not gonna use any other words
Well, then what is he gonna,
how is he gonna treat you like a partner?
You think that he's gonna let you walk out
in whatever you wanna wear,
but yet this person is upset
that if you've had more than one partner before him.
So we kind of just have to look at
what are we asking for, what are we getting,
and is there a connection there?
And if that works for you and you like that,
you do you baby, I'm not in your relationship,
I don't give a fuck.
Yeah, have you ever seen an open relationship workout?
Not successfully Wow yeah, I'll be honest. I'll try that right they try it often
Usually more often than not one person gets jealous the other person falls for them no again
None of this is black and white there are so many people out there listening going I have an open relationship
And it's great, and it's like fuck yeah
It's like long distance long distance distance relationships, more often than not,
don't work out.
Right?
It's safer to be in a long distance relationship
when you have a fear of intimacy, it's easier, whatever.
Can it work?
Sure.
Can I win the lottery?
Sure.
But am I gonna put my paycheck on it?
Probably not.
What do you think about open relationships?
I'm not a fan.
Yeah.
I don't get it.
I just, human nature, you're gonna get jealous, right?
There is that debate where like men are programmed, you've probably seen this biologically to reproduce. They're not programmed to be with one person their whole lives. What do you think about that? I
Think listen, I understand the biology of things
But I also think that we have evolved and I think that there are ample people to show. Yeah, you're right
There are some people that really are just like no like but even it's funny as I think about it
I was like, oh I have some examples of people and I was like, ooh
But even, it's funny, as I think about it, and I was like, oh, I have some examples of people,
and I was like, ooh, every one of those people
really needs to get help.
Because a lot of it comes from a deep rooted insecurity,
I don't want just one partner, I get bored.
Again, if that's something that biologically
feels like it's in alignment with you,
just make sure that you have a consenting adult as a partner.
That's all I ask for.
18 and over and they're a human.
Pretty simple.
But for me, I don't know,
I think we've also evolved as people.
I think what we biologically used to do 200 years ago,
now that we have cell phones,
have completely changed the game.
So I think that we can evolve as people,
and I think some can, some can't,
and it's not just men, I see some women,
and usually it's a fear of intimacy.
That's why they want multiple people,
is because you don't have to really show
full parts of yourself.
You can go to different partners, but hey
I'm not a sociologist right now. I don't know the evolution of people but that would be just the psychological aspect of it Interesting. Yeah, we're in crazy times right now. Only fans just hit another revenue high. No way
Yeah, five point four billion that last year
Those girls are making more than more than athletes
They added up all the revenue from NBA players and the OF girls are making more than athletes. They added up all the revenue from NBA
players and the OF girls were making more. All for showing your butthole on screen, right? And listen,
again, more power to you, baby. You take control of your career. You have full autonomy of that.
But I mean, listen, let's also be honest. The OnlyFans world, like I know that the porn conversation
is a huge one. A lot of women are really against it and all of that.
And it's like, okay, I'll be honest.
I grew up, my father owned 15 porn theaters in New York.
Wow.
Yeah, that was when he moved to the States
when he was younger.
He started a bunch of businesses and that was one of them,
it was very lucrative.
And then he had a gay club in New York for 30 years.
So I grew up in a bit of a different environment.
I understand what it can do,
but I also think that for a lot of people
that hate on that type of stuff, OnlyFans and you know things like
that, if it becomes an issue in your romantic relationship, like if your
partner doesn't want to have sex with you anymore because of an OnlyFans girl,
okay that's an issue. But I know that men are very visual creatures and men are,
it's a lot of visual. So to me if you're getting visual stimulation from that and
especially if you're single, I'm like, I don't care.
But just manage your expectations
that most women are not like that.
Agreed.
What's your opinion on your partner watching porn?
Some women consider it cheating.
I'll be honest, I watch porn.
Oh yeah?
I do.
A woman pleasuring herself is a really empowering act.
And for me, it's a way I can connect with myself again.
And for me, it's a way that I can outlet fantasies
that homegirl is never going to do.
I have some fantasies that I watch on those
and I'm like, oh my God, I wanna do this.
If you even considered it with me right now,
I'd probably go into a shell and hide.
So for me personally,
like if my partner wants to watch something,
I don't take it as an offense
because he still wants to have sex with me
all the goddamn time.
So I'm happy, I'm fine.
If he wants to have him night on his own
because I was too tired that night, go have it. If he wants to have a night on his own
because I was too tired that night, go have it.
I think, like I said, where it becomes an issue
is when your partner no longer wants to be with you
or has unrealistic expectations
or expects that you're gonna do what they're doing.
Then that's, I think, when it becomes an issue.
That makes sense.
How do you feel about that?
Probably similar.
I try not to watch it just because of the mental,
there's a lot of studies now on it,
how it's affecting the brain.
Totally.
So it seems pretty damaging if you're watching it daily.
Consistently, exactly.
I was gonna say, like anything,
we have to have boundaries, right?
I might watch something once a month,
just to be like, oh God, that was a fun fantasy,
and then back to my day.
But if it became a day-to-day thing, you're like.
Well, there's guys out here that I know doing three a day,
like four a day.
No shit.
Isn't that crazy?
See, that's where we have to say it's dangerous.
But I'd still go and it's like, those are the same people.
It's like an addiction is an addiction.
Your brain is gonna get caught on an addiction loop,
whether it be drugs, alcohol, porn or a person.
We have the chemicals that get released.
We have different aspects.
So I think for those people,
it's like, that's very much, they're numbing.
They're trying to avoid dealing with other things.
And also when you masturbate,
you release all those hormones and it feels nice.
Absolutely.
What's been your experience with Shark Tank?
How was that process?
I've had a couple of those guys on the show.
Oh man.
That's the devastating part of this conversation.
Oh really?
Yeah.
Didn't go well.
Well, so 2022, March, 2022,
I had my clothing company called Software
and I went through every round.
I got through everything and they were like,
literally no notes.
Like I even did my pitch and they were like, perfect, great.
You didn't prepare?
I will of course, but I meant like every,
so the way that it works with Shark Tank is you go into,
so February of 2022 is when the
process starts.
You have about 60 different meetings between then and when you get on set.
It's insane.
Every week you're getting a new email from them and it's like you're seeing if you made
it to the next level.
So for me for a while I was like, hey, and I just, I kept making it to the next level.
Cool, cool, cool.
Then you have the big call with everyone that's on it and you start to see who else is on
there and you're like, oh cool. I saw a couple of friends on there. We were texting each other. We have to be very hush hush
I couldn't tell anybody about it. And so then you go through another round of like six
Interviews where you have to do your pitch over and over and take notes. I did it
I remember doing and I all I got was it was perfect. We can't wait. Great done day comes
Here's your schedule for day one of filming Sabrina. We can't wait to have, great, done. Day comes, here's your schedule. Day one of filming, Sabrina, we can't wait to have you.
I get there at 10 a.m., I'm in the room,
I'm shitting bricks, I am sweating like a whore in church.
I was doing my fucking meditations,
and I was like, Mark Cuban, you're mine,
I'm gonna get you, and I went on set,
they show us, they do the tour.
Sabrina, here's your stuff, all of that amazing.
Calling my mom, I'm crying in the room,
all my friends were prepping.
I get taken on set, I hear a pitch going,
and they're like, you're next, okay cool,
put me in the green room.
I go to the bathroom, I'm like,
oh my god, there's Mark Cuban's room,
and there's Lori's room, and I was like,
holy shit, like I'm here.
Hair and makeup comes in, done.
Outfit comes in, done.
They come in, prep me one more time,
you ready Sabrina, let's fucking go.
I'm sitting there for 25 minutes,
what's going on, Where is my tent?
Comes in right after.
I'm so sorry.
This is our least favorite part of the job.
We're not gonna have time today to put you on.
We've already, it's past six o'clock.
And I was like, I've been here for like nine hours.
I was like, I've been sitting here waiting.
Well, that's why we say there's no guarantees,
but don't worry, we have tons of spots
and we're gonna fit you in.
I left and as I walked out, I heard someone else pitching
and I was like, you fucking asshole.
You gave my fucking spot up because I was local.
So they prioritize if they're gonna fly you in
and they claim no.
They claim no, no, everyone's equal.
It's like, God, get that.
That person flew in, you spent money on them.
I was local in LA, so you didn't have to spend money on me.
And I went through another three weeks and I was dark.
I was because-
Three more weeks of that?
Like you went in every day and they-
No, the way that they do it, you're on call every day.
And so every day I had to let people know at any second,
like one of my friends did it, she was on a hike
and they said, can you get here in an hour?
And she was like, oh, somehow I will.
Walked on, got the, and did it.
So that was my, and she was was a friend we were talking at the time
So she's like you got this and like it's a very lonely time because you can't talk to anybody about it with the NDA
Mmm, and so you're kind of like shit. I'm stuck in my own loop
But and so every day for three weeks it was another day of no another day of no and then I got the call
Tomorrow's the last day of filming. You've got the last spot Sabrina. We're gonna get you on and I was like just cheering
This was my this was before I had any of the that I have now.
So I only had my clothing company.
I was like, okay, we're made in America, we're sustainable.
Like I get my chance, right?
I'm a solopreneur, did this all with nothing.
Night before, guess who gets a call?
I'm so sorry, we're gonna have to give your spot up.
And I fucking went off on her.
I was like, that is disgusting.
I told her very straightforward. She says, well, you wanna try for next year? I said, I fucking went off on her. I was like, that is disgusting. I told her very straightforward.
She says, well, would you want to try for next year?
I said, go fuck yourself.
You think I want to try for next year?
I said to go, sure enough, a month later,
I started my TikTok and here we are.
Wow.
So I'm grateful it didn't happen,
but I also know that it was really, really tough.
That's a crazy experience.
So if they hit you up right now, what would you say?
They'd get fucked.
You're still bitter about it?
I would not, because one, I don't trust them.
Two, the reality is I had to let that burn.
And what I mean by that is I was holding on so tight
that this company was gonna be what put me on the map.
And this was gonna be it, that I didn't hold space
for the fact that that's not my future.
I love my company, I'm selling it right now.
I don't have the bandwidth.
My career now is so much more lucrative and successful.
More fulfilling, right? I love it. I started with clothing too. Did you? Yeah. No shit, what were you doing? I was doing jerseys. Yeah, sports jerseys. So you know. I know. Very similar path. Where were you
manufacturing? China and Pakistan. Okay. I was doing everything in LA. Oh nice. It was expensive but it was worth it. I was stoked, sustainable, high quality, everything. It's tough though with the margins. It's insane. And like trying to scale it,
you need multi-millions of dollars
to even just get anyone to come to your website.
Like I was stoked, I did a million during COVID
by myself, hand tie dyeing.
Like I was really proud of what I was able to do,
but to get that to a 50, $60 million company
as a solo person with no money, no investment, nothing.
It's almost impossible.
Truly, unless you're just that lucky.
But I'm really grateful
it didn't happen because if that's why if they called me now I'd be like, hey, that doesn't align
with the future. They hit me up too. I'm glad I didn't go through this now. Wow. When did they?
60 interviews, uh, maybe three, four years ago. So I was 20, 22. So probably probably beat me by like
a year or two. It's insane. The process you have to go through. Now don't get me wrong. Like I,
had I been able to go through the experience in totality,
would have been cool.
But that wasn't on the cards for me.
Absolutely, now you got a killer podcast.
Now, I just talk about a completely different career.
And that's something that when it comes to dating,
I try to like help people with.
Let it burn, let it burn.
If something's not working out, if the career,
if everything feels like an uphill battle,
that's when we have to stop and be like,
okay, maybe there's something else out there for me.
Absolutely. Right?
Yeah. Closing messages, where can people find you?
It's been a pleasure.
Thanks, Sean.
So closing messages would just like, man,
at the end of the day,
focus on becoming the best fucking version of yourself
so that you can then be the best partner
to an amazing person that's trying to come
into your life as well.
Because at the end of the day,
we have no control over anybody but ourselves,
and that is really the priority,
and that's where we need to put our focus on.
And so anytime for anybody,
if you're focused on why are they,
I want you to instantly reframe that to, I don't like this.
Why are they means you're not taking any ownership
and accountability of what's happening for you.
I don't like that they do this,
starts to understand, okay, what don't I like about it?
And you can start to understand yourself. Love that, that's such a simple shift too, but it can go a long way huge with my friends
Her name is Britt Frank
She's a neuropsychotherapist and she taught me that and she was like cuz I work with children and I started to see they don't
Care why their parents died. They don't like it and they're uncomfortable and so we can understand ourselves
So much more when we really get that like our brains neuroplastic you can heal all of this
Just take some work, choose your heart.
Love it.
So yeah, you can find me the Sabrina Zohar show
on Instagram.
As you know, when you have different handles,
you're like, bleh.
Instagram's the Sabrina Zohar show.
That's the name of the podcast and Spotify
and all that stuff, fun stuff.
And then Sabrina does Zohar on all the other TikTok
and Insta.
Perfect, we'll link below.
Thanks for coming on.
Thanks, Sean.
Yup, thanks for watching guys.
That was awesome.
Check out the links below.
See you tomorrow.