Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - Cynthia Nixon

Episode Date: April 16, 2024

"And Just Like That...” star Cynthia Nixon joins the show. Over a pear and pecorino salad and pork chops, Cynthia talks about juggling two Broadway shows when she was barely out of high school and dishes on never-before-seen "Sex and the City” scenes. This episode was recorded at Hearth in the East Village, NYC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Oh, that's very luxurious. Live up to the all new Lexus GX. Luxury beyond limits. Experience amazing, it's your Lexus dealer. Hi, it's Jesse. Today on the show, you know her from Sex and the City and, and Just Like That, and from her iconic roles on Broadway, it's Cynthia Nixon. I do remember it was like 1979.

There was some party on a weekend and I remember somebody said, it's snowing in Georgia. And that meant there's some crew people doing cocaine in the bathroom. Oh. I was like, yeah. That's amazing. This is Dinners On Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson.

Cynthia, Cynthia Nixon, she's always been one of my favorite actors. Her range is just incredible. And I love the risks she's taken as both a performer and a human. I mean, remember, she ran for New York governor against Andrew Cuomo in 2018. Fans of theater know that she's been creating impressive roles on the Broadway stage since she was a teenager, but many people became fans of hers after her iconic role as Miranda on Sex in the City, a role she's picking up again on and just like that. I met Cynthia years ago when she was at the height

of the Sex and the City phenomenon. What immediately struck me about her was how unfazed she seemed by all of the attention. She's for me the embodiment of a professional working actor. She's serious about her skill, but she never takes herself too seriously. She's generous, she's kind, incredibly wise, and smartly opinionated. I've had many meals with Cynthia, and I knew this one would be equally as

fun. I just happened to be bringing microphones along this time. Hi! So Cynthia met me at Hearth in the East Village on the afternoon before a performance of The Seven Year Disappear, a place she had just opened off Broadway. Hearth is one of Cynthia's favorite restaurants and just like its namesake, it's warm and cozy. We went there on a rainy New York day and it felt like I came upon this charming cottage in the middle of East 12th Street. Chef Marco Canora opened Hearth in 2003, after years working alongside Chef Tom Cliquio at Gramercy Tavern, and later led the team at Kraft.

Canora's rustic Italian-inspired dishes earned him a James Beard Award for Best Chef in New York City in 2017. You may or may not hear him planning with his staff at a table near us during the conversation. Kanora is known for his thoughtful ingredients, grass-fed butter and beef, locally sourced vegetables, and he even mills his own flour. I love their emphasis on eating responsibly and deliciously.

Plus, Cynthia's endorsement as a regular was all the convincing I needed. Okay, let's get to the conversation. What are we recording? Oh yeah, we've been going the entire time. The whole time? Yeah. Great, good to know. We got you going to the bathroom.

Going to the bathroom? We followed you in. Did you have a mic in the? We have a mic in the bathroom. That's great, snorting. Yeah, yeah. Little cocaine in the bathroom. You know, it's the middle of the day.

You gotta get a pick me up. You have a show tonight. Exactly, exactly. Exactly. So the last time I saw you was backstage at your, oops, my pen. in the bathroom. You know, it's the middle of the day, you gotta get a pick me up. You have a show tonight. Exactly, exactly. So the last time I saw you was backstage at your, oops, my pen, after your performance. Cynthia, I love the play so much.

Thank you. I kind of wanted to save me gushing over it for this moment, but the play's called The Seven Year Disappear, written by this new playwright? Is he new? He's not new. He wrote a play that I never saw but I have since read called Homo's.

Okay. That Michael Urie and Robin De Jesus did. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I know of that play. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Jordan Seavey. Seavey. Yeah. Really talented, really interesting voice. I know you've obviously grown up in this industry,

in the theater industry here in New York. Your mom was an actress. Yes. And I didn't realize, but she was, she worked as a, what is this, with a game show? So, okay, so my mom studied acting in college. She went to the Yale School of Drama. She studied with Uta Hagen,

but she really never had any success as an actress. She would do freelance stuff for Goodson and Todman who did a lot of the game shows. Yeah. And there was a time where a real job came available and she said I'm gonna go in there and ask for the most money I possibly can think of and if they give it to me I'm gonna give up acting. And she said the amount and like, sure. And she said she probably so low balled herself. But that's when she decided she wasn't going to try and act anymore.

And so she worked in all of these. She worked in Play Your Hunch and What's My Line and I've Got a Secret. And when I was a kid, she worked on To Tell the Truth. And then I was on like four different times, only once as a contestant. But her job on To Tell the Truth. And then I was on like four different times, only once as a, like a contestant. But her job on To Tell the Truth, so To Tell the Truth, for those of you who have never seen it or don't remember,

it's a real person who's famous for something but not recognizable. Right. And two other people pretending to be that person. It'd be less hard to play today because everyone knows who everyone is. I guess so, I guess so. And then the other two people would get briefed

and try and lie and pretend and convince people to vote for them like I'm the real person. I'm the real Jesse Tyler Ferguson. And so it was my mom's job to brief the people into lying. Right, like kind of coach them. Coach them, give them not only the information, but here's something, don't do this, because everyone can tell you're lying if you do this.

So it's sort of, in a weird way, it's like. It's teaching acting. It's teaching acting, right? How to be believable as something that you're actually not. Yeah, do you think that that's like where sort of this. No, my mother indoctrinated me from a very. You were already interested in like. I was completely indoctrinated me from a very- You were already interested in- I was completely indoctrinated.

So this was just like an opportunity to pretend to be other people and it was exciting for you or- Yeah, I mean my mother, she passed onto me this like obsessive love of theater and film and old movies and acting and literature too. But I think so many of our games would involve, like she would do little scenes with me,

or she would say, if you have to have a limp, don't try to limp, distort your foot and then try to walk as well as you can because that's what people, or if you have to cry, nobody wants to cry, nobody tries to cry, you try to cry, it's very hard, but you think of something that's painful or beautiful and then you try not to cry.

Because again, we always, whenever we're crying, we're trying not to. Right, right. It always fastens, but I have a few friends who grew up in New York. It always blows my mind that people actually were able to live their youth amongst these great artists. in New York, it always blows my mind that people actually were able to, you know, live their youth amongst these great artists.

Yeah, it is great having, I mean, I don't really come from a theater family, but I come from such a theater mother. Yeah. And she was, you know, I was an only child, my mother was an only child, my father was an only child. And so there was not a lot of kid stuff in my life per se. And my mother would always say,

I would never take you to a movie that I wouldn't want to see myself. Right. How are you? Oh, well, how are you doing? I'm good. What's your name? I'm Madison. Madison, nice to meet you. You know Cynthia, I'm sure already.

I do. Regular here. We do, we do. What do you like here, Cynthia? Oh, I like everything. I mean, I would definitely like that pear and pecorino salad. That sounds delicious.

I'd like the pork chop and maybe the hen of the woods mushrooms. Correct, those are delicious. Oh, go ahead. I have not. Okay, so I think a cool thing about our pasta that I quite like is that we don't just make our pasta in the house, we mill it downstairs,

so we make all our own flowers, and it really comes through. So if you're a pork eater, go double pork. Let's do the macaroni and the pork chopper. Really? Yes, it's pretty incredible. Okay, I'll do it. Yeah, macaroni?

Sure, let's do it. Anything else sticking out to you that you wanna try today? Chard Romanesco, maybe? Yeah, let'll do it. Yeah, macaroni? Sure, let's do it. Anything else sticking out to you that you wanna try today? Chard Romanesco, maybe? Yeah, let's do it. Thank you. Thank you so much. I mean, your kids are large, you go back and forth, but largely in LA, right?

Yes, yeah, yeah. But I mean, when we bring, when we bring Beckett to New York, I find that he doesn't really want to play with toys. He doesn't want, he wants to go outside and look at the trucks. He wants to see the music that's on every corner. You know, there's-

I mean, I have to say, I, you know, I grew up here. I'm raising my kids here. And I just feel like New York is an incredible place to grow up, or at least to be exposed to, because it's so different than so many other places. And also, I always have told all my kids that 11 is the magic age in New York. 11 is the age when you can, particularly now

with cell phones, but even before, where you can really take public transportation yourself. There's so much that you can just do. But also, for you, when you're saying 11 is the age that you can go out and like, you know, really be free in New York, you know, for you 12 was also the age that you could like just go work on a Broadway show. Well, right, so I started acting, depending on what

you count as the real thing, like 11, maybe really 12. And I did like an after school special, and then I got cast in a movie called Little Darlings, which was starring Tatum O'Neill and Christy McNichol. And I didn't know who Christy McNichol was, but Tatum O'Neill I like worshipped, you know? Paper Moon and Bad News Bears and oh my God. And I had like a really nice part

and there were all these young girls in it and it shot in Georgia for 10 weeks. And my mom worked and my dad worked. And you know, like my babysitter from when I was younger went along for a bit. My godmother took off a week. My mom, you know. But eventually they were like, we're really out of days.

And that was fine. And so there was like another mom of another girl there who was ostensibly assigned as my guardian, but it was just on paper. That was fine. And so there was like another mom of another girl there who was ostensibly assigned as my guardian, but it was just on paper. Right. So I was like 12. Just living in Georgia.

By myself in Georgia in the Holiday Inn. Oh my God. And it was fantastic. I'm sure. It was so fantastic. There was a pool and I had never gone to summer camp. It's a movie about summer camp. We played volleyball at lunch and I don't know.

I burned a lot of incense because I was very into incense and I got a notice from the Holiday Inn saying, you must stop, you're burning so much incense. We're never gonna get the smell out. Yeah, and my mom trusted me. I mean, that's incredible. I went to sleepaway camp for a week or two and I guess in a way it's sort of the same thing. You, I mean that's incredible. I mean I went to sleep away camp for like a week or two

and I guess in a way it's sort of the same thing. You're obviously being well looked after. Those crews on those movies and television shows are always a big family anyways. So. Right, although I do remember it was like 1979 I think and there was some party on a weekend and I remember somebody said, it's snowing in Georgia.

And that meant, oh, there's some crew people doing cocaine in the bathroom. So I was like, I felt so sophisticated. I don't know, somebody explained it to me. I felt so sophisticated, like it's snowing in Georgia. I was like, yeah. That's amazing. Now for a quick break, but. That's amazing. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Cynthia tells me about juggling two Mike Nichols shows on Broadway when she was a high school senior.

And if you don't know who Mike Nichols is, I don't know, Google him. He's a legendary director, Emmy, Grammy, Oscar and Tony Award winner. Anyway, we hear what it was like to piss him off. Okay, be right back. I love my home. I do, I love it so much, but I also love vacationing. I work a lot and sometimes it bothers me to think how often I'm not actually there to enjoy it.

I mean, whether I'm going on a fun vacation with Justin or traveling to New York for work, there's big chunks of time that I don't get to relish that sofa I pined it so hard to buy or bake cookies that I can make with my stand up mixer that I got for Christmas and I realize there is a way that I might feel better. If I became an Airbnb host, I could make use of the space when I'm away and make some extra cash. I mean, my next vacation could essentially pay for itself. Like my extra Airbnb cash could go into an account for that trip to Paris I've been pondering.

And then basically the trip is free. Do you see what I'm saying? I mean, I know that's not technically how math works, but okay, also if we're saving money hosting, this means I could do some shopping, right? And the weather is also very nice in Paris at this time of the month. And I just feel like it might be,

okay, you know what? I'm going to talk to Justin about this. Thank you for letting me share this epiphany with you. I appreciate it. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.com slash host. We've all got old things lying around. Listen, if one of those things is an old 401k,

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assets. Fidelity Brokerage Services, LLC, member NYSE, SIPC. And we're back with more Dinners on Me. I'm sure you've talked about this at Nausium, but I just find it incredible. And it's like part of obviously theater folklore. When I was doing Take Me Out on Broadway, I was reading the Mike Nichols book. Which one?

Mark Harris's, Tony's husband. So when you were a freshman in college at Barnard, you did two plays for Mike Nichols. Well, right, no, it started a lot earlier than that. It started when I was, I guess, a senior in high school, right? Okay. Yeah, I was a senior in high school. I auditioned for this play, The Real Thing, that Tom Stoppard, the British playwright, had written that was going to star Jeremy Irons and Glenn Close, Christine Baranski, Peter Gallagher, and I was going to play Christine and Jeremy's

daughter. And so they cast me and I was very excited about it. It was only one scene, so I was a little like, it's only one scene, but we took it out of town to Boston like they used to do, the Wilbur Theater. And we were a huge hit in Boston. We came into New York, we were a huge hit. And ooh, food. All right guys, we have our Romanesco.

Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. Here's a pear pie. I'm gonna swing it over here. Yeah, thank you. Ooh, it's gorgeous. Isn't it good? Isn't it yummy?

So pretty. Don't be shy now. I'm not gonna be shy. Don't be shy. And so, we had just opened, right? And we had opened on Broadway and everything was like sitting pretty. And Mike Nichols gave me this script, which I still remember was like in this, it was like a red leather cover, like very, you know, old fashioned-y.

So one of the amazing things about this play, other than the play itself, were all the people who were going to be in it. So it said, his note to me on his Mike Nichols stationary, you know, said, William Hurt is Eddie, Christopher Walken is Mickey, Harvey Keitel is Eddie, Christopher Walken is Mickey, Harvey Keitel is Eddie, Jerry Stiller is Artie, Sigourney Weaver is, I can't remember her name right now, and Yardley Smith is Debbie.

And meaning that Yardley Smith, who is the Ways of Simpson, was my understudy at the real thing. And so if I did this, then Yardley Smith would go on in my part in the other play. Oh, interesting, okay. You know, amazing actors who are, many of them who are movie stars, and you know. And it was to go out of town to Chicago,

to the very small black box at the Goodman Theater. Okay, and at the time you still were working in The Real Thing. In The Real Thing, and I was also a senior in high school. Right. So, I rehearsed one play while I did the other, and I remember I would sleep in our rehearsal studios. There was like this banquette. I would sleep on this thing,

and I would say to the stage manager, whoever, I was like, don't wake me till it's my entrance. Like, I don't need any transition time. It's like when you're like half a dozen lines away, just wake me, because I was so exhausted because it was senior year and whatever. And there were so many things like, that I remember about doing the play.

I mean, there were many crazy things for my 18th birthday. They gave me a cake from the erotic baker with a huge erect penis on it. I mean, the play itself was very sexually charged. It's not only sexually charged, but very kind of boys against the girls and the boys have all the power.

Or not all the power, but a lot of the power. I mean, that's one of the things about the play. It's like a portrait of misogyny. And I think sometimes people mistake that for David Rabe's own perspective, which it's not at all. I think he's looking at toxic masculinity. We didn't call it that then. But yeah, and then we brought it into the Promenade Theater, which is an off-Broadway theater on 77th Street.

We were a huge hit, and then we moved it to Broadway, and then Yardley got a movie in Texas and had to go, and I guess her understudy couldn't cut it, and people panicked. Okay. And I walked up to Mike and I was like, youy couldn't cut it and people panicked. Okay. And I walked up to Mike and I was like, you know, we always made this joke

that I could do both of these parts. Well, I can do them. Now both of these shows are on Broadway. I mean, the first and the third act of one and the second act of the other, which was why it turned out to be a good thing that the part in the real thing was only one scene. A small part, one scene, yeah.

Right? And he was like, I will call your agent tomorrow. And they put me on right away. First of all, my logistical question is how, what was the proximity of the two theaters? Do you remember? They were two blocks away from each other. I just, I'm trying to put myself in your shoes

during that moment because, I mean, when you are in a play, you really, you enter that theater and you're in a sacred space, you put on your costume, you put on your makeup, you're in that character. The idea of taking your clothes off, putting on your real, your synthetic sin, this is how I arrived to a theater clothes,

walking two blocks in Times Square, entering another space, putting on a different costume, becoming that other person who is British. I keep forgetting that part of it. And the real thing you were playing, the character is British. They're very different people. The British one is like a young woman of privilege,

incredibly educated, kind of saucy with her father, very sassy and opinionated. And, right, whereas the girl in Hurly Burly is like a lost runaway on the streets who's been beaten down, who, you know, who in the last scene we see her and she's obviously like a hooker on the street and she's really kind of doomed.

She's like a doomed character. Okay, so this is even more interesting. So you play that, you go over, you walk a few blocks up, play this, you know, British character, come back, now you're a hooker again. I mean, it's just, I mean, do you ever look back on that time and think that that's crazy that I got to do that?

It is totally crazy that I got to do it. Incredible. Did you work with Magnicles after that ever? Um, you know, here's the funny thing. So I had done both of these parts for a long time and by the time I was doing them together I was like, I was a freshman in college and I was a freshman in college, and I was taking geology three mornings a week at nine a.m. to try and knock out my science requirement. And I found it incredibly hard. And I was terrified that I was going to fail.

And I was a very good student, but like college, it's an adjustment. And so I went and I gave my notice so that I would have three weeks to study from my geology final, and Mike Nichols was very angry. Oh wow. So he was very angry and he wrote me a letter. He was not visibly angry, but I could tell that he was very angry and he wrote me a letter. He was not visibly angry, but I could tell that he was very angry.

And he wrote me a letter basically saying, you know, whatever you do in this world, I'll hope you look back on your time with us raggle taggle gypsies, which was like a way of saying like, you will never work in this town again. Like you have made this decision. I mean, not really, but it was, he was very angry. He wanted to kind of slap me a little bit.

So for years I didn't, and I understand, I might have been mad too. He gave me such an opportunity and I was like, I'm sick of this, you know. You were also choosing your education. Yeah, but I was also just, yeah, it was both. So then years went by and then he was, I think he saw me in something on stage, I think he saw me in something on stage,

I think he saw me in Angels in America on stage. I had heard that he was there. And he was directing the movie Primary Colors. Yes. And he asked me to come in to be a reader for the young man. I mean, no, no, to read all the, like it was like Cuba Gooding Jr. and Adrian Lester and all.

To be the reader with the actress who's auditioning. To be the reader with the act, because I was young, right? And that was fascinating too, because not only did I get to see these guys audition for this big, right? But then I got to sit there in the room with Juliet Taylor and Mike Nichols

and see, you know, what they thought of everyone. That was incredibly eye-opening. It was incredibly eye-opening. It was incredibly eye-opening. I also saw you in, well, the first time I saw you on stage was Angels in America. Oh, really? I had just moved to New York,

and Tony's play, Angels in America, was something that I read. The high school student, sort of a lonely theater kid in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and I fell in love with it, obviously. And when I came with my father, he dropped me off at school and it was the only show I wanted to see.

Well, it was Perestroika and Set of Millennium Approaches, which is Perestroika's the second half of the play. It's a six hour play, but I knew the play so well, I didn't care, I was like, I'm gonna see it out of order. But my father, who had never six hour play, but I knew the play so well, I didn't care, I was like, I'm gonna see it out of order. But my father, who had never read the play, or you know, he was also still struggling with, you know, maybe his relationship with me being gay. I brought him to this incredibly difficult,

challenging play, basically dropped him into the deep end of this story. And I just remember like, you know, afterwards, he didn't really know what to say to me. And I think a piece of it was, you know, scary for him too, because, and it's about AIDS, and I just remember afterwards he didn't really know what to say to me. And I think a piece of it was scary for him too because it's about AIDS and it's about that time of kind of like right when I was in New York,

it was about that time period a little bit before, but I think he was very concerned. It was a jolt to his system, but that's also why I love that place so much, it's good it did jolt him. And anyway, then I went back and saw part one with when I was in school and you were still in it and I actually got arrested on my way home

from seeing Angels in America because I jumped the turnstile with my friend. So we only had one subway token and we got pulled in and arrested and put in a cell overnight. And then at the end when you're leaving jail and they give you back your belongings. They have the playbill.

They gave me back my playbill for ages to break. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. I love it. But that was the first time I got to see you on stage. And then I saw you in indiscretions afterwards and I just was very, I was very taken by you from early on. And so, you know, when Sex and the City happened, and you know, there was that thing of like,

everyone was like, oh, I'm a Miranda, I'm a Samantha, I'm a Karen. I was like, I know I'm a Miranda, and I don't even know if I'm a Miranda, but I know that I love that woman who's playing Miranda, because she's a theater people. You know, also seeing you kind of move into that world of television, you know, at this this time I was also like not,

I wasn't acting, I wasn't making any money doing any of this stuff, but it just sort of, for the first time showed me how wide a career as an actor can be. And so I definitely- And long. And long, and long, yeah, absolutely. Was it a surprise?

Because I mean, your acting career has a definite tone. It's very serious, it's very grounded, but it's also you make, your characters have a, there's a quirkiness about them. Very quirky. And Miranda Hobbs is such a 180. Yeah, so I was like 30. When Sex and the City came along,

there was just almost no TV in New York. There was like... Law and order. There was law and order, there was Cosby, there was like Hope and Grace, do you know, like there was almost nothing. And there seemed to be a million women in this, not just four, because they would also,

in the initial season, like Carrie would be writing about a woman and that would be the framing device. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was like, I gotta get one of these and then I could shoot a thing in New York and earn money and not have to leave. Yeah. And by then I was a mom already too.

So yeah, so I auditioned for Carrie and they were like, no, not so much. And they were like, come back for Miranda. And it was, like you say, it was a very big departure from anything that I had ever done. Because I'm like long blonde hair, kind of a hippie-ish person, played a lot of waifs and a lot of flower children and you know, and Miranda was so like, acerbic and you know,

it was like with the one-liners, you know? I had never played anything like it and then it came to define me, but it was so not, I mean, obviously it was a part of me and it was really funny because, because also like, I was in a committed relationship, I had a child, I was very domestic. I was in still the same place where I grew up.

My friends were from my childhood. And Miranda's the polar opposite. She's relationship phobic, she's very wary of men, she's very wary of motherhood and marriage and any kind of domesticity. That's why a lot of people connected to her. Right, totally. Because she worked against the her. Right, totally. Because she worked against the grain.

Right, totally. And very confrontational, and like, I was just not that way. Yeah. And, you know, people all through the show would ask me, you know, how are you like Miranda? And, you know, I would say, well, we're both very confident about our brains,

but that's kind of it. You know, like, she's dated a million men, like I've been in like a few long-term relationships, you know. about our brains, but that's kind of it. She's dated a million men. I've been in a few long-term relationships. They asked my mother one time on a red carpet, you know how I'm like Miranda, and she said, well, they look a lot alike. But it was funny, by the end of the show,

they asked me that on the exit interviews we were doing, and I was like, I'm like her in every way. Yeah, it's like you guys came together. It was like we came together. They started softening her up and giving her more interior stuff, and they gave her a partner, and they gave her a child, and they gave her a home.

And I just sort of at that age came into my own and learned partly from her, but also just learned from growing up, you know, how to be more forthright and outspoken and, you know, and not less, less waify and flower childy. Right, right. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Cynthia shares some details on Sex and the City scenes that didn't make the cut, but are absolutely absurd, and I wish they were available on YouTube or something.

Michael Patrick King, I'll pay for them. Okay, be right back. This episode of Dinners on Me is brought to you by BetterHelp. I have recently embraced therapy. I don't know why I didn't embrace it earlier. I think there was always maybe a little bit of a stigma for me. Like if I had to go to therapy, it meant there was something really wrong with me. But once I let that

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So, you know, Michael Patrick King's a friend of ours and I don't know him nearly as well as you do, but I have become friends with him and I was talking to him the other day, and he goes, I don't know if Cynthia's gonna remember this, but ask her if she remembers the scene that I had to cut. Oh yeah. Do you know what the scene is?

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. So, there's a brilliant director named Alan Coulter who directed a bunch for us and directed even more for The Sopranos. But yeah, so there's this thing where Carrie gets her shoes stolen, and the detective who shows up to help her with her stolen shoes is kind of hunky, and Miranda shows up, I guess, because she's like her lawyer or whatever.

And the guy likes me. And I'm kind of, like, overwhelmed because he's, in my mind, he's so out of my league and we go out on a date and I'm like super freaked out and nervous and I drink way too much on the date and I'm like kind of, you know, manhandling him and we filmed a scene that they cut because they couldn't do that to Miranda. Where I'm on top of him, we're having sex, I'm on top of him, and we shot it from the side,

so we're both in profile. There is a tube, like taped to the side of my cheek that's the side that's away from camera, so you can't see. So we're having sex, I'm bouncing up and down on him, and then I kind of stop, and I open my mouth wide, and we have this chunky chicken soup thing, Campbell's, that they shoot out. Projectile vomit. Projectile vomit out,

not just into the sky, but all over the sky. Into his mouth as Michael Patrick King sold me. Right, I mean all over, and then we do extra shots, ooh that's so beautiful. There we are, my friends. Oh wow, thank you. We do extra shots, which are just me, and I have like a little honey dripping from my lips

with like a little bit of like, you know, chopped up almonds and it's kind of dripping and I kind of just pass out. Yeah. Michael Patrick King's version is that all that happened but then the reason he actually cut it was because you kept seeing the tube. The tube was in the shot. That's why he says he cut it?

That's why he says he cut it. Because he never got it without the tube being seen. Really? Well, there's another scene that we cut that he might, that I'm sure he would remember too. The chocolate one? That he didn't direct, right? That this brilliant guy, Alan Coulter, directed

in that episode where Miranda's not having sex but she's eating a lot of chocolate cake and she tries to buy a whole cake, and it's like $80, and she's like, this is ridiculous. I'm not gonna spend $80, so she goes and buys like a Duncan Hyde mix and makes herself a cake, and then she can't stop eating it, she eats piece after piece after piece.

And Alan Colson. That's the one where she's eating out of the trash can. Right, and then finally she has to throw it in the trash and pours detergent on it. That's right, that's right, which I've done before, by the way. You have? Uh-huh, I think I took that tip.

Wow. But so, before we got to that, Alan Coulter, who was a very creative director, filmed a scene. It was kind of like psycho. It was like a lot of quick cuts, and she would like, she was like rabid, and she would like eat it with her hand,

and like, right, and she like slid down the refrigerator, leaving this, we might have even shot it in black and white, I don't remember, like this streaks of chocolate, which sort of like blood. Wait, what season was this? It seems like it's such a departure of style. Well, that's the problem.

Michael Patrick saw this thing and he screamed. He was like, we can't put this in our show. This has nothing to do with our show. And also, how does Miranda recover from that? Are we gonna go and find her in the loony bin? Like she's lost her mind. So we had to reshoot it in a more mundane way. Right, right, right.

That's hilarious. And it is footage that I, cause I'm sure he cut it together. I would just be, I would. I want that and the vomit scene. I know, I know. For sure. I want both too. Yeah, I'm sure there's, it exists somewhere for sure.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the show's always been one of those shows that like people, there's always something to talk about with it that's like this and that's what I have to do with the show itself. Like, you know, and then when you came back, it was like, well now Samantha's not here. And then it was like the Shea stuff.

And like, there's like, how do you navigate that? When it's like, your job is just to come to work and service the work. how do you block out? Because I know it's one thing to like not look at press and not like look at what people are saying, but you know, at some point you hear about it, things filter through. Yeah.

What do you do to protect yourself and just sort of still move forward? I don't know, I mean, and just sort of still move forward. I don't know. I mean, it's sort of some of this stuff you can't really tell, you know, until a few years pass. You know, with the original show, I mean, people embraced it pretty quickly,

but there was a lot of pushback even in the original show that was like, these are not women, these are gay men. This is written by gay men and that women don't have sex like this with this frequency and talk about it so dispassionately and clinically, all this stuff. For me, I love the stuff that happened with Miranda in the first season and in the second season too, you know?

But I know not everybody did because I think, I don't know, it's so funny through the mists of memory. Our show pushed so many boundaries, but also it's been watched now over and over and over that it sort of also has a comfort food aspect to it. Yeah, oh, 100%, yeah, sure. But it was like, we were always a show that, when you first saw it, that pushed buttons.

And I felt like Miranda switching her career, being unhappy in her marriage, trying to like, as a white woman, sort of catch herself up with her privilege and her bubble-ness, you know? I felt like the stuff that happened was very believable, and I think a lot of women who identified with Miranda were like, Miranda would never be so, you know,

foot in mouth. It was like, have you met Miranda? I mean, Miranda's always been a bull in a china shop kind of charging forward in sort of the generally right direction, but kind of leaving chaos in her wake. And I think this was so perfectly what they did with her. There's also, I think it dealt with something so perfectly what they did with her. There's also, I think it dealt with something very interesting that it doesn't matter

what stage of your life you're in. You could be young, you could be in your 50s, you could be in your 80s or 90s. Like, when things, your life can be upended. And it's about how you pivot with it and how you deal with the things that are in front of you at that moment. And I just, it was, I mean,

in some ways it was like, is she having a midlife crisis? But instead of buying a convertible, she's like, I'm in love with this person. Non-binary person. Right, I'm having sex, I'm drinking and having sex in Carrie's kitchen. In the best sex of my life. Right, right, right, right.

So I just, that's why I really responded to it, because I felt like it gave, I don't know, freedom to sort of like take the pressure off of ourselves for we're never fully formed as people. We're always evolving and always being malleable and changing and discovering new things about ourselves. Yeah, and I feel like they've always allowed us on the original show and the new show

to grow and change and evolve and age. And I think it's one of the reasons that we're not just doing a reboot, right? It's not like we're just going to check in with these characters who were in the exact same place when we left them however many years ago, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I think there was this sense, you know, back then it was like, once you were like 40, you were, you were old, right? It's like we just sort of say like, oh, you're in that bin.

You're just old. But I think one of the great things about it and just like that is like, no, you know, you don't become frozen in time and solid and having figured out and predictable. It's like, you never know, you know, your partner can die. You can decide that you realize that you're gay.

You can chuck your career. Your kid can be non-binary. Like all kinds of things can, like were kind of the last thing you expected to happen, can happen. It's not like a, there's never really a safe age you get to, right? Right, where you're just.

Nowhere like, and done. And you know, there's security you can build up through relationships and wealth and family and home, but you know, you never know in good and bad ways what curveball is coming at you. Right, right. And I mean, it's also interesting that you and Christine met right before Sex and City ended, right?

Yeah, we met in 2001, and we worked together for a few years doing education, fighting for education. And then we started dating, yeah, like in January of 2004. So I think that's right when it ended. Massive job ending, new relationship with someone of a new gender. I mean, talk about that. Like what was that?

And also, right. And also, you know, I mean, the fact that she was a woman was obviously front and center. Right, well that's what people are very interested in. Right, but also for me, so many of the people that are in my world, particularly then but still now, are people I grew up with.

Most of the men that I dated were guys I had gone to high school with. Even my ex, we didn't date till we're the end of college, but we had gone to junior high and high school and college together. Do you know what I mean? All my friends knew him. So there was no, I knew him.

Right. And I was like, I think this person is incredible, but maybe I'm just bewitched or, bewitched or something, right? But I was like, I'm gonna go with it, even though I don't know anybody that this person knows. Right. Which was a funny thing for me. That's so interesting, yeah.

I mean, even when I would date actors, right? Like, I had known them for a while and they knew everybody that I knew, you know? It's like a safety net around that relationship. Yeah, it's like, it's right. It's like you've done a background check, in a way. Exactly, like a safety net around that relationship. Yeah, it's like, it's right. It's like you've done a background check in a way. Exactly, like a total background check. Like a 360 degree background check.

But I have to say it was, so there was always this thing of like, am I just crazy? And then I met her parents and I was like, oh, I'm good. Oh wow. Oh, I, all of this, all of this that I see in her, I now completely see where it comes from, and I have no reservations. Oh, that's so interesting.

Yeah, because her parents are just, you know, the most incredible, loving, competent, wise, you know, you name it. Right. Yeah. I mean, I adore Christine. I talked about you being such a great multitasker, but I mean, even I know that there's a point in your career when you're like, I just have to focus on one thing,

and that's when you're running for governor of New York. Right, yes. You know, there was no room for multitasking. No, there was no room. And I remember talking to you right before, and my first question for you was like, if you get this, you obviously can't continue acting for a while. Right. How do you feel about that?

I just consider you such a consummate actress. And you talked about roles that would probably have to go away that you were excited about. But I was also so happy that you were running. I'm not registered to vote in New York anymore, but I was so happy that you were running against Cuomo because he was running unopposed and you were like, this isn't fair and let's give him someone to fight against.

And you did really well. First of all, talk to me a little bit about, was it scary at all for you to jump off that cliff? It was terrifying every day. It was terrifying all day every day. It was really terrifying, yeah. And just sort of also like, as far as like a career, like did you, I mean, I'm sure, I hope that you felt that you always had that It was really terrifying, yeah. And just sort of also as far as a career,

did you, I mean, I'm sure, I hope that you felt that you always had that to come back to, if not to the- I mean, I hope so, right? And I mean, I think that this was one of the main reasons that I could run as opposed to somebody else, right? The reason he was running unopposed was that he was so famously vindictive

that if you actually had a career in politics, he would just close all that oxygen off for you and your career would be over. All the money would dry up, all the connect, you know, he just had so many tentacles in so many different places. Yeah, yeah. Does it make you appreciate or look at our leaders in a different way?

Is there? I think it makes me a little less, they're just people. There's not, particularly nowadays, there's not training, sometimes people go to school, but it's sort of like, you just have the wherewithal, the confidence, more and more often these days, the money to run for office and say I want to do that.

Right, right. And just by running for office, you have this aura around you. I mean, one of the heartbreaking things was how people would look at me when they would talk to me as a candidate. So much hope and so much need. And I'm used to people as an actor that people, you know, recognize playing characters that they love, whatever, like looking at me

with a certain kind of like awe and admiration, so that's not, but this is different. This is like you have power and you could help me in my life and I need these changes so badly. And you know, it's like, you know what? I don't, I actually don't have any power. I'm just a person running for like, I'm not in awe, you know? And it makes the stakes, I guess, of your campaign

so much higher too, when you have those encounters. Yeah, so many people. You don't want to disappoint people. No. Well, what is, I mean, it's one thing to do, as an actor, you are faced with disappointment all the time. There are jobs that you want that you don't get. There's things you just have to pull out of,

but I'm sure losing a campaign is gotta be a different kind of thing. Yes, but I really had never, the chances of my winning were like, I don't know, like 3% or something. Do you know what I mean? It was not crushing. It was like, I need to do this and do the best job I can.

And one of the really great, thank you, one of the really great things about running when I did was our New York State legislature had a majority of Democrats, so we should have controlled the legislature. But these certain number of kind of more centrist or even right-wing Democrats had been siphoned off to vote with the Republicans, to caucus with them so that the Republicans had the majority. And so one of the things that happened in the year that I ran is we unseated six of those

eight turncoat Democrats and my candidacy, we really worked hand in hand. And so once we took back both houses, you know, officially, then we could pass all this legislation. And so much of the stuff that I ran on got passed. Right, right. That's gotta be filled really good. It was, yeah. And so it was like, I mean, in some ways it's the best of both worlds, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, cause you don't have to have the job. I don't have to have the job. I can, right? I can get all this attention. I can fight as an activist, but fighting as a candidate is more effective. Sure, sure.

If you can get people to pay attention to you, which I knew that I could. Right. So, you know, I think that there is, there are things that you gained from it as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I've always respected your opinion greatly, but like, I respect you more as a, as of that.

I won't give you too much longer, but I do want to like just talk about the first time we met, because it is really special to me. Because like I said, I appreciated your work from an early age and I finally got to meet you, I think it was at the Public Theater Gala, is that right? Yeah, at City Center, right?

Yeah, that's right. And you were singing Dance 10 Looks 3. Yes! From a chorus line, yes. And I had several small little things that I was doing. And Leah Delaria was singing, who I started in On the Town with, she was doing something from On the Town,

and I was sort of her plus one for the day. And she brought me over to you and introduced me to you, and you were so generous and kind. And at this point, I had done very little. I was really just Leah's friend. And I don't know how we kept in touch, but when you were doing Rabbit Hole, I somehow got ahold of you and said,

I'm coming to your show today. I was in matinee, and you asked me to come back and say hi. I don't know if you remember this. I don't think I do. And I came back and I said hello, and first of all it should just be said that you won a Tony for rabbit hole.

It was like this very buzzy performance. So I go see you in it, I was brave enough to say, hey I'm here, and you were so kind, you said come back. I came back, we said hello. You're like, I'm gonna go get some sushi, do you wanna come with me? Do you remember this? No!

You took me out to eat sushi with you in between your shows on Saturday. Well, two things, on our way to the restaurant, it was my first time sort of walking with someone where people were doing double takes. This was pretty soon after Sex and the City. Yeah, it was 2006. Yeah, so Sex and the City had just ended.

You were like, you know, everyone knew your face. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was crazy to walk next to you, and this is how I feel like, Sex and Stay had just ended, you were like, you know, everyone knew your face. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was crazy to walk next to you, and this is how I feel like, you know, now people sometimes experience this walking down the street with me. But like, you know, everyone sort of, and I was watching you navigate it,

like, look how she's like, she's getting to where she needs to be, but she's being kind to people. I was like, okay, I'm taking all this in. And then, you know, you ended up taking me out to sushi dinner. Kodama, we must have gone to Kodama. We went to Kodama, that's for sure.

I'm so sad that it's not there anymore. I hate that it's not there. I know, I know, I know. But you were just so generous with your time. I mean, you were in between shows of this incredibly complicated play about a mother who's grieving the loss of her child. And you had time for this person who did not,

we didn't know each other, Cynthia. I mean, I had seen you expelling me. But come on. Oh, but you were so amazing. It was like you were doing like a charity event taking me out to dinner. But I was just so touched by that generosity. And it's something I've always remembered.

And it's something I've tried to remind myself of when people enter my life and sort of in that capacity of like, I feel that they're admiring me. Like I remember, because I certainly admired you and continue to admire you, just how generous you were with your time and it really stuck with me. I really appreciate you doing this.

I love seeing you and I love seeing you on stage again. ["Dreams of a New World"] Next week on Dinners on Me, you know her as Gina Linetti on the hit comedy Brooklyn Nine-Nine, It's Chelsea Peretti. We talk about her foray into directing with her debut feature film, first time female director, now on Roku, being Twitter famous during the peak of Twitter, and why she thinks comedies aren't funny anymore. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners on Me Plus.

As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad-free. Just click Try Free at the top of the Dinners On Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Dinners On Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson.

It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Angela Vang. Sam Baer engineered this episode. Hans-Dyl She composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tamika Balanz-Kalasny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson.

Join me next week.