Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - Dan Bucatinsky – On Coming Out in Hollywood, Teaming Up with Lisa Kudrow & Finding Success After 40

Episode Date: March 10, 2026

'The Comeback’ executive producer and star Dan Bucatinsky joins the show. Over minestrone soup and burrata salad, Dan tells me about hiding behind parked cars to avoid being seen with his now-husband, why he almost missed a dinner with Michelle Pfeiffer, and nabbing his Emmy-winning role in ‘Scandal’ in his late 40s. This episode was recorded at Louise's Trattoria in Larchmont Village, Los Angeles.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Right now, we're in one of those seasons where everything is happening all at once. I'm getting ready for a play in New York. And then after that, I'm going to be doing a musical in London. And we're figuring out schedule, school, travel, where everyone's going to be, you know, all of it. And it's getting down to the wire. And in moments like that, I'm very aware of how helpful it is to have a little support, which is something I've been thinking about when I've thought about hosting my home on Airbnb. Listen, if you're traveling, relocating temporarily, or just juggling a lot, hosting can feel like just one more thing on your plate.

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Do it the right way with Indeed. Hey, it's Jesse. Today on the show, you know him from hacks, the comeback, scandal. It's Dan Buchatensky. I'm hoping that by Friday. What's today, Monday? I'm hoping that by Friday, I can sort of be my authentic self in public. This is Dinner's On Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson.

So today we're Louises Tatoria in Large Schmant in Los Angeles. Louises have been around since 1978, and they are certainly in L.A. staple. I personally love their minestrone soup. They also have gluten-free pasta and pizza. And my friend, Dan Bukotinsky, happens to be gluten-free. so I thought this might be a perfect place to bring him. It's also a place that I feel his character, Billy from the comeback, might come to secure a magazine deal for Valerie Cherish.

So, all right, let's get to the conversation. I haven't been to Louises in a million of workers. It used to be my... What? I haven't been here in here. No, this might be my first time here. How long have you lived in Los Angeles? Too long to not have come here before.

I know. Yeah. Beverly Hills when I first got here to LA and there was a Louises in Beverly Hills and we would just always go there. What's the Canon Theater like a movie theater? No, the Canon Theater was a theater. It's where Love Letters was. It's where Forever Plaid was. The amazing thing about the women who ran that theater is they would let us use the theater on Mondays to showcase our talents. What? So I wrote a show, I had come to L.A. with a, this is more than you need to know, but I'd written a sketch show, a show. I'd written a sketch show. A.

two-person sketch show in New York that I was performing in the duplex. And then I had this opportunity to do it three Thursdays, three Thursdays through Saturdays at a Santa Monica club. And so I flew to L.A. I put on the show at this Santa Monica club. And then I thought, L.A. is kind of cool. We should give it a shot. So I got a job at the Cannon. They let me do that same show on Mondays on the set. I didn't really start doing it regularly until Forever Plaid was there. So I, I was doing my little sketch show on the set of Forever Plaid. I love that. Which had no bearing on my play, but it didn't matter.

Right, right, right. That is incredible. And you, I know you wrote a play that you had turned into a movie that, you know, you had made. The basics, I mean, this is how much I can squeeze as many possible things, including an ice show, maybe, out of the same material. There was like four sketches in my sketch show that became the play that I put on at the Tiffany Theater. in West Hollywood, which isn't there anymore either. And that became the movie all over the guy, which I then was in, and that sort of launched everything.

But all of it, and the woman who produced that little play and told me to turn it into a gay story and make it into a movie and invested in the movie was the woman who ran the canon theater. No way. So that relationship. Were you out at this point? No. No.

So in. So in. So in. Don and Don and I were dating. Your husband, my husband, Don Bruce. Don Roos, screenwriter and director and my husband for more years. Most importantly, your husband. More years than I care to admit.

He met me while I was working at the Cannot Theater. He would come, he would, he and I would go have dinner during the, during the show, and I would come back afterwards to sell pencils and cassettes for the, for Forever Plaid. That's so romantic. Is it? I think so. And so you weren't, you were, were you dating him? Are you, when you said you weren't out, we were very in, were you out to yourself?

Yeah. Okay. I was out to myself. And you were interested in. No, I was in, when I met Don, says, when I met Don, I was in a love affair, an absolute head over heels love affair with another guy who was working as the general manager of Forever Platt. Oh. And then he's like, yeah, I'm dating the merch guy. Yeah, yeah, totally.

No, it was totally top secret. because he had a long-term person in his life. So I was the other man. And I couldn't understand how one person could love two people. I was like, you clearly have to leave this person. I can't, you can't feel this way about me, and I feel this way about you, and you still have somebody else. Like, I couldn't wrap my brain around it.

And he was like, I believe I can love two people at the same time. And I was like, and then he got a job. Interestingly enough, he got a job on the national tour of Cats as the manager, as a general manager. So he left town. And I said, you're leaving town. Don't call me.

It's too painful. Don't ever call me. Don't ever reach out to me. I need to mourn. He left town. I'm not kidding. He left town like on October 8th, let's say. I met Don on October 23rd.

Oh, my God. And Don was like, you are not interested. So let's not do this. And I don't know. We kept talking on the phone over and over and over and over and over. So he was wooing you. He was wooing me. Did you have a coming out,

this while you were dating Don? No, I came out to my family and to myself like two years earlier. Okay. But only two years earlier. The business to me was like, oh my God, nobody can know. Because at that time, that time really, truly. It was like if they saw you as gay, you just would not, you know, God forbid. And you were trying to break in.

I was trying to break in. And then Don and I were dating for several years and I was keeping it. I was really not being very out about it. for an embarrassingly long amount of time. I'm going to say six or seven years. Really? That's a long time. One time we were moving in.

We were moving in together, finally, and we were area rug shopping together. You know, as bros do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we were in one of those shops. And Meg Lieberman, the acclaimed legendary casting director, she saw me, and she was like, hi, Danny. and I was like, hi, I waved, and I ran around the corner and I called and I said to Donna, I go, I can't be in there with you.

I cannot be in there with you. So I'm going to hide behind this parked car and she won't see that I was with you. And so I hid behind a parked car. As though she didn't see us, as though she didn't think the two straight bros spend their Sunday afternoon rug shopping. Like, I was so lame at how much I thought. I thought I was getting away with it. And years later, Meg, she cast the first season of the comeback. Yes.

And so she and I laughed about that story many a time. She remembered that. Yeah. She was like, I love how you thought that you would pull the bull over my eyes. I mean, she completely busted me in her head. Oh, my God. And she didn't care. That's the thing.

We cared way more than the world did. Sure. But who knew? And I was not working very much. I was getting little tiny bit rolls, but I realized it took me years to realize that by pretending to be a person who was pretending to be another person,

it was one extra layer that just did not ever connect me to material. And I think people were like, yeah, okay, he's... You know, I was unspecific. Right, right, right, right. And that's such... I always tell actors this, like young actors, like whether you want to be out or not

as a decision you have to make, but the more specific to your true self that you can be, when you have to take on anything, the better it's going to be. It took me a long time to learn that lesson. But anyway, blah, blah, blah. What did you feel like, what did you feel like

was the moment for you when you didn't have to worry about that anymore? Like you could just be a working actor who didn't, wasn't concerned about that? You know, it's a good question. I don't think, I don't think, I don't think, have you gotten there yet? I'm hoping that by Friday.

I'm hoping that by Friday What's today, Monday? I'm hoping that by Friday I can sort of be my authentic self in public. No, I I, um, you know what?

I was kicking and screaming a little bit. I think I was really scared. And Don was like, you know, we would, oh my God, there's other thing happening. When I first met Don, the premiere of a movie he had made called Love Field

starring Michelle Pfeiffer for which she was nominated for an Oscar, there was a premiere of that in Westwood. And Don and I were only not even a year together. And he was like, you want to come with me to this? We're going to go to the premiere, but we're not going to watch the movie. We're going to go to dinner with Michelle Pfeiffer. And she at that time was dating her brand new boyfriend, David E. Kelly, of Allie McBeal and many other show fame.

Right. And I was like, I can't be seen in public with you at a dinner with Michelle Pfeiffer. What if I ever work with her? And Tom was like, she's met. She's a movie star. She's met some gays before. Yeah. Yeah, but not on camera.

Like, that could ruin my career. Oh, my God must have had to bite his lip to keep from laughing. He was like, well, you can come. I have a feeling you're going to be okay. Yeah. I was a wreck, and we went to the dinner. And I don't think anybody knew I was even there, which was fine with me. But I was invisible at the dinner, which was perfect.

And Michelle was gorgeous. Yeah. And, but I remember that feeling of like, oh, I better not even be seen in public with you. at a Hollywood thing because I have my whole career ahead of me. Like, what if, what if what? You know? I can't even connect to even what that thought was now.

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Dan tells me about the unexpected way he got connected with Shonda Rimes and we get into the pressures of aging in Hollywood. Okay, be right back. So on a recent episode, we had Ted Danson on. And if you know Ted, you know he's very passionate. about protecting the oceans and buying sustainable wild-caught seafood.

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Thanks to Wild Alaskan Company for sponsoring this episode. I love beautiful landscaping. I love having a beautiful backyard, gorgeous trees, flowers, the idea of it's incredible. And then I actually go to a nursery and I immediately feel overwhelmed. I'm wandering around trying to figure out what works, what won't die in two weeks, how I'm even going to get at home in my car, especially when I have, hypothetically, two small children who have completely different priorities than plant shopping. That's why I love fast-growing trees.

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DOM at checkout. Fastgrowing trees.com code DOM. Now is the perfect time to plant. Let's grow it together. Use code DOM to save today. Offer is valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions may apply. Okay, be honest. You know that thing you've been saying you're going to do for years? I'm going to start therapy. I'm going to look into. therapy. I'm going to emotionally process that later. Yeah, yeah, same. For the longest time, I kept putting it off because every time I googled a therapist near me, I'd end up 40 tabs deep, comparing credentials like I'm buying a refrigerator, and somehow more anxious than when I started. That's why I love grow therapy. They make finding a therapist feel human and doable.

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no subscriptions, no long-term commitments, you just pay per session. Therapy that fits real life. And honestly, I'm such a big believer in therapy. It has helped me become a better partner, a better father, a better friend, and on, well, on most days, a calmer human being. Whatever challenges you're facing, grow therapy is here to help. Grow except over 100 insurance plans, including Medicaid in some states. sessions average about $21 with insurance, and some pay as little as $0.0. Visit growth therapy.com slash D-O-M to get started.

That's growth therapy.com slash D-O-M. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. And we're back with more dinners on me. Hi, how are you? Hi. Good. Good. Good.

get an iced tea. Sounds refreshing. Well, you tell me. Well, hopefully. And I'm gluten-free. Oh, you have gluten-free pasta available. That's such good news. Thank you.

Just let you go a couple minutes? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I can, I mean... I think I know what I want. I'm going to go really super simple. Okay. I'm just getting him in a strong suit. Sounds good at night.

I'm going to order a couple of things because I haven't eaten since about an hour ago. The 80s. No, no, no. The 80s. Can I... start with, wait, let's, I'm looking to see what has the GF little logo on it, right? Well, I'd love some barata and a roguila.

Okay, and then I'll, and then, shall I order the other thing now too? No. Yes? All right, thank you. Do you want a pasta that's gluten-free pasta? Yeah, they have, do you know what form of gluten-free pasta is? It's Penne. It's Penne.

Yeah. Okay. You can just say any type of sauce. Any of your sauces. That's exciting. Okay. I can offer you the papadele in Italian sausage is really tasty and creamy, and that goes pepper with the gluten-free option.

Wait, tell me what that is, the pepper dally with Italian sausage. But you said it's creamy. I don't like a cream sauce. But that sounds delicious. Can they make that same thing but no cream? For sure. All right, that's what I want with gluten-free pot. That sounds delicious.

No cream. With no cream. And I'm getting a little broad of salad, too, and that sounds... That's perfect. Can I get a spurt free water, please? Thank you. You want to do a small or large bottle? Small is fine.

Okay. Sounds great. Thank you. Well, I'm thrilled. I haven't been here in a million years and I love it. But this is just an example of how powerful a fucking closet is. I made that movie all over the guy, which was a love story. I starred in it.

I wrote it. Much of it was autobiographical. And I refused to talk about how autobiographical it was to the pre- autobiographical it was to the press. I was like, well, the writer could, the writer is out, but the actor isn't out. I was like, I,

and I'm, I'm a college educated individual. Like I, when I'm saying it now, I'm like, what kind of dumbass do you? Did I actually think I could get away with talking about sort of the, the autobiographical tones of my script? Right. But the actor, I don't need,

none of your business who I sleep with. I think after my movie came And I was like, oh, we're in every gay and lesbian film festival in the country, every single one of them. And I went to every single one of them. And I was like, this is a crazy opportunity. This is a crazy opportunity to tell the story, be the story, live the story. And so for the years after that, and for the couple of years after that, as I started writing more, I started letting my guard down in a much bigger way. Right.

And then, you know, then having a kid. I mean, the movie came out in 2001. I had my daughter in 2005 and my son in 2007, wrote a book about it in 2010. So that was 10 years from the movie to having two kids and writing about it. I've never been more exposed, but nothing was more cathartic than being 100% honest. Yes.

And it took me a long time. Yeah. Yes. And, you know, I wrote it in ways that you wanted to share. In ways that I wanted to share. But it took me a long time. Yeah. I mean, do you feel like for you having kids was that thing that cracked into like a more,

that sort of blurred the lines between your private life and your work? Yeah. Well, it did. Let's see. It did a little bit because I wrote because I wrote about it. Right. And then being a gay dad was something I was very vocal about and parenting in general. And I was writing articles in Out magazine and The Advocate.

It was fairly not brand new, but I was on the early side. Yeah, you are. So I was sort of on this, I was on this daddy kick. It became a big piece of my identity. And I have to say that because of that, weirdly enough, because of that honesty, because of owning that, because of talking about it. I connected to Shonda Rimes because I adopted my kids and she adopted her kids.

And it's not an accident. I mean, it was very good luck, but it wasn't just luck that landed me on scandal because she and I had a relationship. She wanted to see there be a writer, gay dad on that show in some way, and she worked it into the show. Yeah. But I came to L.A. at age 27, and I wound up, and really just because of the success of scandal, I had no control over that, but the crazy success of that show was 20 years after I came to L.A.

So the kind of success I wished I could have when I got here at 27 happened for me at 47. At a time when you were more comfortable with who you are. Totally. Thank you so much. I am wow, barata and arugula Come on, that's a beautiful Crazy combination

Can I show this to all cameras Oh my god I can't really like to do that That is the funniest thing That is ever out Oh my god It's all good I wanted to toss it anyway

I was just trying to toss it By far My favorite thing That's happened You know I'm a TV producer Also right I was trying to help the camera

angles. Oh my God, that was so funny. It was perfect because I got to toss it, which was really what my intention was. That was my intention. I like to have it a table toss. It's called a table toss salad. When I say table tossed out, I mean like I spilled onto the table, I toss it and put it back in the bowl. Correct. It's the only way really

to toss. Oh my God, that was so good. Oh, my lord. I can't believe that just happened. Yes, I can't because I do that shit all the time. Oh, my God. It's really good. I cannot wait to watch that back. I can't. I can wait to have you watch that back. Oh, boy.

Anyways, Don and I had our kids at 40 and 50. And we had been together for 12 years already. So we had done a lot. He had made a bunch of movies. I was already on my path, at least career-wise. And we were on the older side. But certainly nowadays, when so many young gays are wanting to get married at 28, 29, 30, 31.

Like, they're just doing it all earlier. Yeah. Don was really worried about being a dad at 50. Yeah. And now I have a daughter who's 20. Yeah. And my son's 18. And I certainly hope that we're empty nesters at some point.

You both look great, by the way. I mean, when you told me you just turned 60, I was like, I did not believe you. Don's just not like his age. You all look great. Well, we're hanging up. on by a thread. That's one thing about the gays.

We know how to take care of ourselves. We know a good skin care routine. Yes. We know we need to plunge our face into an ice water bath every once in a while. I absolutely am going to start doing that. Are you kidding? It's the one thing I haven't done.

And I'm going, if it was good enough for Joan Crawford, it's good enough for me. That's right. Well, I had my eyes done. My dad genetically had incredibly, incredibly pronounced bags under his eyes. Oh, yeah. As did his sister.

And I started noticing mine in my late 30s. Oh. And I was doing 24 Legacy. It was like the reboot of 24. And the lighting on the show was, as you can imagine, not glamour gay lighting. I was at CTO with a headset. And the camera was always under my chin. And I was like, guys, come on.

Help the lady out. I went to do ADR. and I had an episode where I was being interrogated, and I had to take my glasses off. And I took my glasses off, and I couldn't believe it. When I took my glasses off, I looked like my dad did 30 years later. Wow. And I was like, I'm leaving here, and I'm making an appointment.

Wow. Tits and ass. And off I went to Park N-Sev-P. Park-N-7-3rd? No, I went to a guy who just does eyes, and I met with him, And he said, yeah, you're holding all of your age in your eyes, and we'll take care of it. And they did. And it was the best money I ever spent.

I couldn't believe it. Desper before and after. You don't need, oh, I'll show you before and after. But you won't believe it because it was almost 10 years ago, and you won't believe it. And I will let anybody who wants to look at it, because I'm a big proponent of doing whatever you want to do to make yourself feel better. more than anything else. Same. Do you think A, being gay or B, being in our business

is pushing us towards these things more than we would normally? I think being in, for me, it's being in the business because I would not have cared, but I would see myself on screen. I don't like the way that's making. It's happening to see ourselves. Yeah, I think that's what it is for me. And I've been in your house.

It's all mirrors. I don't know why you would do your entire house in mirrors. I mean, you would see yourself anyway, so I don't really know. I guess it's something that you guys like, but I find that. It's not. It's not. It's all just in the ceiling, just in the ceiling. Your house is stunning. Thank you.

It is absolutely gorgeous. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we return, Dan tells me about how he and his creative collaborator, Lisa Kudrow, narrowly missed one another in college. And he tells me about the backhanded way he learned he was an Emmy nominee. Okay, be right back. Reggie, I just sold my car online.

Let's go, Grandpa. Wait, you did? Yep, on Carvana. Just put in the license plate, answered a few questions. Got an offer in minutes. Easier than setting up that new digital picture frame. You don't say? Yeah, they're even picking it up tomorrow.

Talk about fast. Wow. Way to go. So about that picture frame. Oh, forget about it. Until Carvana makes one, I'm not interested. Car selling made easy. On Carvana.

Pick up these may apply. You know Kelly Rippa. You've watched her every morning for years. I've watched her every morning for years. But now you're finally getting Kelly off camera. And as someone who has met Kelly off camera, all I can say is that version of Kelly is a delight. Kelly Ripper is launching a new podcast called Let's Talk Off Camera with Kelly Rippa.

I am so excited about this because this is where the filters come off. Each week, Kelly dives into stuff she doesn't always get to say on daytime TV. Stuff about her marriage. family, her career, and how she somehow holds it all together while living very publicly. She's joined by a rotating group of friends, people like Matthew McConaughey and Kate Hudson, and the conversations go everywhere. Fitness fads, sex, aging, ambition, marriage, the chaos of life, all of it. It's funny, honest, sometimes unexpected, and very, very Kelly. So if you want real talk with heart, humor, and zero small talk.

Check out Let's Talk Off Camera with Kelly Ripa. Listen now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, pts, you didn't hear this for me, but Normal Gossip is back for its ninth season. Join me, Rachel Hampton, as I share the juiciest gossip from the real world with some very special guests. This season, we're bringing back some old friends, a Radiotopia Buddy, and for the first time ever, a Nobel laureate. That's right. We have Malala on season nine. Normal Gossip is out on all your favorite podcast platforms.

And we're back with more dinners on me. But no, yeah, having to, the self-acceptance part of it is really hard for me. Yeah. I see things like I've been watching episodes of the comeback, which is, which I don't know when this drops, but is imminent. Yeah. The third season. when this drops, you will have premiered. We will premiere.

Well, the comeback started in 2005. I was going to ask, going back and looking at yourself. This is what I mean. In 10 decade increments. Because, yeah, it's 2005. In 2014. Right? And then now we're driving in 2026.

So 21 year difference. Yeah. And the same character, you know, you just have to look at the episodes and you can watch them back to back. And you see a before and after. Well, what's so great, what I kind of love about this structure, and I think it kind of, it probably happened by accident because, you know, I, as many people will also say, am a massive fan of the original season, the first season to come back. And I think I was shocked, as many people were, that it was not renewed for more seasons. And I think, you know, I think in hindsight, we can all recognize that it might have been a little bit ahead of its time.

And, you know, I don't know, there probably are the reasons. why it didn't get picked up for another season, but the structure that we've now found ourselves in where we check in on these characters every 10 years is kind of genius because it's these people who are navigating where the industry is at this moment and trying to figure out how to stay relevant,

which is very relatable, maybe more so had we just had like a five-season run of the show initially. You're taking... That's 1,000% exactly right. I mean, literally, almost verbatim, when I talk about the show, you are hitting on exactly what is this interesting thing.

Listen, I'm not one of those. Everything happens for a reason, people. I'm not. Manifest, all that stuff. I find all of it really tiresome. But what you said is so true. The show would have been a completely different show if we had done seasons consecutively.

for five years. And just Valerie and a lot of different, really funny, interesting, maybe sometimes embarrassing situations and victories and all that. They would have been smaller stories. Valerie loses her keys. By the way, I would love to watch about...

The thing about I love about Valerie Cherish is I would watch her do anything. But what you're saying is exactly right. By accident and not by design, we have had the good fortune in a way to not be able to... make consecutive episodes. So we, to do a season that it was about the way reality television impacted, threatened,

maybe even helped some people who were looking for relevance back in 2005, what it was doing to writers in particular, and then come back 10 years later and talk about not quite streaming, but premium cable. And the sitcoms were starting to fall away. and the dark comedy was becoming the most important thing and how this woman was going to navigate relevance in that world. And now 10 years later, what can we talk about 10 years later

that is both possibly a threat or in an inevitability in our business? And how does that impact these characters, but particularly this one character, who all she wants is to keep working, having fun and be relevant. And the show, oddly enough, continues to have relevance because we check in every 10 years. This is definitely the final season and it's really... How can you say that, though? Because it's called the final season.

So? Well, I'm very close with the creators of that series, considering I produced it too. And I can... And I can let you know this is the final season. Okay. Okay. I've done two projects with you that you've created with Lisa Kudrow. I did web therapy, which was a dream.

You were so funny. To include myself on a guest cast list that has some of probably the greatest TV cameos of all time. Meryl Street. Including Murrell Street. Was just a huge honor. So web therapy, and then who do you think you are, which is a reality show that you and Lisa created and produce about finding your roots. You and Lisa have known each other for a very, very long time. Yes. How did you two meet initially?

Well, we met really truly for the first time on the set of my husband's movie, The Opposite of Sex. Yeah. Great film. In 1997. But Lisa and I went to college at the same place and overlapped by two years. Oh, no way. A tiny college named Vassar College. And she was pre-med and always in the chemistry building.

And I was everything but. pre-med. In fact, my only brush with the chemistry building, which she'd spent every minute of her time, was I had joined a modern dance troupe that did an interpretive dance piece on the steps of the chemistry building called Lost Angels.

It was about L.A. And this very loud song, we would rehearse on the steps of the chemistry building all the time. And Lisa remembers those fucking drama-ramas dancing when she was trying to study. And I was like, that was me.

That's incredible. So that fact that our experience at a very small college was so different that we just didn't run into each other. We had some mutual friends. Right. And as the years have passed, we have some alone friends that are the same.

But we didn't meet up at Vassar. Subsequent to our meeting and becoming friends, we've gone back a few times. So you really don't even remember seeing her in college? Nope. I don't remember, I don't ever remember laying eyes on her. And I did a play at Vassar called The Man the Glass Booth, and Lisa always talks about remembering people talking about the play

in a positive way, which was nice. And she was thinking, she remembers feeling like, I can't believe I missed that play. And I was like, had you seen the play, we would have laid eyes on each other for the first time. It's all could have started way earlier. It could have started way earlier. but I really credit my husband with meeting Lisa Did you have

hesitations about getting into business with a friend and like what that was going to be? Yes, and our representatives were really not supportive of it. They really did not want Lisa to hitch her wagon. What happened is I made this movie all over the guy, which was this little gay rom-com after the opposite of sex. and so I knew Lisa and she did a cameo in my movie

and right about a year and a half later I had made that movie I was writing television pilots Lisa and a lot of the friends were offered by Warner Brothers what they used to call vanity deals you know we'll give you an office and a production budget and yeah people like Jesse Tyler Ferguson and by the way they're called vanity deals

but what you make of them is what you make of them and Lisa wanted to produce and she didn't want to partner her agent was trying to match her up with a development executive from a studio or an ex-agent and she was like, no, I'd love to partner with Dan who's also an actor and a writer

and produced his own movie. Like, we can make things together as two creative artists and the agents are like, you're making a big mistake. And my agent was like, you're making a big mistake. You're just starting your career. You don't want to...

And so we did it anyway. Sure. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. That looks great. Wait a minute. I wanted to ask you something. Did you know that I had auditioned to play Mitch and Cam?

I did not know that. Yeah. And I auditioned to play Will. I was going to say... And Grace. I got so close. I tested opposite Deborah Messing for Grace. No, I auditioned for Jack.

And I was destined to not be a famous gay on TV. Well, it happened later. It happened later, but in a different way. To Emmy Award winning performance, might I have. God bless you. You audition for Mitch and Cannes. Yeah, they brought me in for Mitch, and I remember that audition really well,

because Steve Levittan and Chris Lloyd, and Chris Lloyd, you were both in the room. And then I came back and auditioned for Cam and it wasn't meant to be it was somebody else's story it was someone else's story

and you can't imagine it being anybody but you you cannot imagine it's one of those things always worked out it's so iconic it's so you're now like the touchstone of a gay couple on TV having a baby from from minute one which was so I also read that pilot and was so infuriated

that I didn't think of it. I loved that pilot with every fiber of my being. The notion of meeting three families and not knowing how they connect into the last scene gives me goosebumps. That's the thing that's tricking up because the show is part of the zeitgeist

and everyone just knows that that's one big new, like one big family. And, you know, what I keep forgetting sometimes is that, because I remember when I first read it, I didn't know, I was like, we're following these three families. I don't know how, why are we following these three random?

How are we going to connect? And then in that last scene, you realize they're all related to one another. And that's just something that people forget because we know the show so well now. Want to check in, see how we're doing with lunch. So great. So good.

Thank you, yes. Are you Louise? Yeah, no, Luis is like. I know, I remember. Paul, this is my family spot. Thank you. Well, it's delicious. Thank you for having gluten-free pasta.

Of course. Thank you for having gluten-free pasta. And pizza, too. Oh, you do? Yeah. Yeah. Incredible. I didn't know that.

That's awesome. So good. Yes. Yeah, totally. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I feel like I remember you saying that, like, you felt like your Emmy nomination was a joke at first?

Oh, yeah, because of Josh Molina. Wait, explain that to me. I don't think I know this story. Josh Molina, who people will remember from the West Wing and was on scandal as David Rosen. Right, right, right. Another part I didn't get. My God.

The roles in your... The rolls in my wake. But listen, I'm happy with the way things turned out, even though I could have been Chandler on Friends. Another one? Another one. Can you believe that? I just found the sides in my file cabinet the other day.

There's not crazy. That's crazy. Anyway, Josh Malina is a famous prankster. I mean, he will pull pranks. That's all he does on set. He makes people's lives miserable. And he loves it. I mean, he is a...

self-proclaimed sociopath in that he just enjoys the coming up with a way to like torture you on set. Yeah. And so that was always his thing. It was always his schick. And he did it to me a lot. And so on the morning of the Emmy nominations, I don't know if I was even aware that they were being for whatever reason.

I didn't quite think it was possible. I wasn't that keyed up about it. I certainly was a pipe dream. I certainly thought it would be amazing. but the competition was fierce, and it was in the guest star category, which was a much bigger category. In the drama,

like Madman was this. Madman. Two people from Mad Men were nominated, two people from Game of Thrones. I mean, we're up against all these cable shows. It just didn't seem possible. So I wasn't really that keyed into it, but I was certainly,

I just didn't know what time they were going to announce them. And so I got up, to go to the bathroom at 5 o'clock in the morning or 6 in the morning or whatever it was. And I noticed on Twitter at that time there was no Instagram. It was just Twitter. Josh Molina tweeted out, yeah, and Dan Bukitinsky pulls off. In a snarky way, he said something about an Emmy nomination. And I was like, oh, what a jerk.

Like, why would you tease someone that way? And then I was like, wait, is he teasing? It is this morning. So then I ran to the TV and I tried to turn it on to see if there was any. They're not going to list that category. Guestar doesn't get listed on television. Right. It's not a headline.

And so I couldn't find it. I couldn't find it. And I was like, Don, wake up. No, no one was calling you? No, nobody called me. Not yet. Not yet. Half an hour later, I got a call.

I got a bunch of calls. Half an hour later. And I was blown away. I was so unbelievably thrown and honored and thrilled. I will say, like, it was great to win, but I have to say that people say this all the time. I will never experience, I think being nominated is unbelievably thrilling. It's just thrilling. To win is like winning lotto in a way.

It's like, oh, you were in a sweepstakes, and you won the sweepstakes. But, like, this felt huge. And Josh was not kidding. At this one time, he was not joking. But I thought he was teasing me. I thought he was, like, ribbing me. it didn't happen. Yeah.

So that was a thrill that I'll never forget. And, and, yeah, well, you know, these things, you can't predict, I could never have predicted that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember right before the Tony nominations came out, the year I was lucky enough to get nominated. The day before, the Time Out New York, so the acronym from Time Out New York magazine is T-O-N-Y. they published their Tony Awards. And so I was included on that list. And did you, did you, did you, I got a flood of congratulations.

Because people didn't know. And they didn't know. And they didn't say Tony. And then like, and like the kind of, I think it was like, copyright or like, all are, whatever, like in the circle. Not the real Tony. Yeah, not the real one. But still.

Maybe there's quote marks around it. And like, I didn't know. I was confused. I was really confused for a good. like 20 minutes. Ended up getting a nomination. Yes, you did. And winning.

Yes, you did. That's not why we're here. Well deserved. Well deserved. I mean, theater is your home and first love, right? Yeah, it is. Yeah. Do you think you would ever want to go back into that world?

Like writing plays, doing beyond stage? I don't know about writing a play. That's so intimidating. I mean, I did it. I've done it. And I just don't, I can't imagine doing it again. Maybe that's the trigger you need to go and do it. The things that make us afraid are the things that we need to jump into.

That's my new path, by the way. I'm all about talking about how fear stops us from success. I don't know. If something scares me, I'm like, that's probably what I should be doing. Right. That's right. And yet, and yet, sometimes it really, some things are really scary. I don't particularly want to eat an oyster or do mushrooms

or jump off a building or jump out of an airplane. Right. There are some things that we're fine to not do. I like that eating an oyster was included in that. Yeah, I find it scary. Yeah. I mean, what's in there? It doesn't feel like it was meant to be eaten.

That's how I feel. You're not wrong. I feel like if something... Let me explain something to you. If something from nature, then the world of nature is letting you know, this is not for you. And how do you know?

It's impossible to open. It's impossible to open. There's like 4,000. locks, do not open this. And we're like, no, guess what? I'm going to open it. I'm going to jam my fingers and stab my hands to get this thing open, and then I'm going to eat it.

It's like, that just goes against all logic to me. You're not wrong. I'm not wrong. So there must be something about it that's like not meant to be eaten. Listen. But I'd like to get over that. You're not wrong, but I do. You love an oyster.

I do like an oyster. You see? Yeah. It's like I'm missing out on something. I got to try it. I don't know if you are. Thank you for doing this with me. Thank you for, thank you for lunch.

It was delicious. Very welcome. It was a delicious dinner. It was a dinner. And you know what? This dinner's on me. Are you serious? This is.

I was just about to vendil you. No, you do not need to because dinner's on me. Well, thank you. This episode of Dinners on Me was recorded at Louise's Tatoria in Larchmont Village in Los Angeles, California. Next week on Diner's on Me, you know her from the movie musical version of Mean Girls and Spider-Man, No Way Home. She's now starring in the gripping Apple TV Plus series The Last Thing He Told Me, it's on Gowery Rice. We'll talk about what it was like working alongside Jennifer Gardner

and how growing up in the industry shaped the kinds of roles she's drawn to today. Plus, we get into her podcast and why storytelling has become such an important creative outlet. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinner's On Me Plus. As a subscriber, not only do you get access

to new episodes one week, early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad-free. Just click try free at the top of the Dinners On Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Dinner's On Me is a production of Sony music entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcalf. Sam Bear engineered this episode. Hansdale She composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison.

Special thanks to Tamika Balance Kalasni and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week. Getting ready for a game means being ready for anything. Like packing a spare stick. I like to be prepared. That's why I remember, 988, Canada's suicide crisis hubline. It's good to know, just in case.

Anyone can call or text for free confidential support from a train responder anytime. 988 suicide crisis helpline is funded by the government in Canada.