Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - Geri Halliwell-Horner

Episode Date: October 24, 2023

Spice Girl and author Geri Halliwell-Horner (aka Ginger Spice) joins the show. Over lobster and oysters, Geri discusses why the Spice Girls and their “girl power” message still resonate today, and the release of her new book “Rosie Frost and the Falcon Queen.” A Sony Music Entertainment & A Kid Named Beckett production. Interested in advertising on the show, contact [e-mail]. Find out more about other podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you like a little danger with your romance and come on who doesn't, there's a new showtime original limited series for EO. Fellow travelers from the writer of Philadelphia and the network that brought us homeland and the affair is part epic love story, part political thriller, and all in on one big secret. It's this story of the risky, volatile, and very steamy relationship between two political staffers who fall in love at the height of the lavender scare. That's the McCarthy era campaign against gay government employees that you may not have learned about in school. Matt Boemer and John Lombardley star as lovers whose fiery and forbidden affair intensifies through the anti-war protests of the 60s. The discocene of the 70s and the

AIDS crisis of the 80s. All despite the constant threat being exposed and losing everything, including each other. Don't miss the series premiere of Fellow Travelers streaming October 27th with the Paramount Plus with Showtime Plan. Hi, it's Jesse. time plan. Hi, it's Jesse. Today on this show, she's a space girl and she's also a children's book author, a young adult author and the author of her own memoir, Jerry Hollowell Horner. I don't think I would have had the success I've had if it wasn't for America because when

I was a little girl, when my mom was at work as well as reading, I was watching television but American television. So I was watching Rocky watching Rocky you know and he was telling me you can do it no matter where you're from you can have that American dream. This is dinners on me and I'm your host Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Much like any living breathing person in the mid 90s I was a fan of the Spice Girls. I was totally hooked on their music, yes, but what I really remember being taken by was their chemistry as a group and their ownership of self-love. And, well, yes, of course, girl power. Being a redhead myself, I was naturally

drawn to Jerry Hollowell, a.k.a. ginger spice. She was one part of what made the Spice Girl special, but I always considered her contribution to be irreplaceable. So I was very excited to sit down with now Jerry Hollowell Horner and discuss her work not only as a pop icon but as a brilliant author as well. Her new young adult novel Rosie Frost and the Falcon Queen had just come out and I caught up with Jerry after a book signing in Los Angeles. Thank you. Oh're doing this? Oh, it's my absolute... I'm so excited to feed you, too.

I asked Jerry to join me at Son of a Gun on Third Street, just a short walk from the Beverly Center. I've been a fan since John Schuch and Vinny Zatolo of John and Vinny's fame opened this restaurant over a decade ago. It's known for its seafood like shrimp toast and lobster rolls, but it's definitely more than seafood. The fried chicken sandwich is insane. I mean, it made the cover of Bone Appetite magazine.

Son of a gun has a kitschy nautical vibe with charts and wheels and marlins hanging on the wall. It's been one of my favorite restaurants and Los Angeles for years, so I was very excited to introduce it to my new friend, Jerry. All right, let's get to the conversation. I'm so excited to talk about to my new friend, Jerry. All right, let's get to the conversation. I'm so excited to talk about your book, by the way. It's Rosie Frost and The Falcon Queen. So a hardback was sent to me by Have Not, Got In The Hard Copy-Ed, but I opened the PDF last night

thinking I'd read like two chapters and I could not put it down. It's so good. That's right. It's so great. It's very entertaining and it's quite a page turner. The book's been out for a few days. No, no, no, no, it's been this is the first week.

And you just came from a signing, right? Yeah. And what was the response? Like, I was doing really well. Yeah. About I'm thrilled that you're still very passionate. I really am. And it is a young adult book.

And so I wasn't sure like, I was like, I want to read it just to sort of see What what she's writing about but it is really truly a book that speaks to many generations? If you like books in general like yeah, so Because I love books. Yes, and so as a reader when I'm writing think about, who am I speaking to? And I want to make sure that you want to turn the page, that you're invested in the character, because if you're not, who cares? Yeah. That's what I was trying to do.

Well, it's certainly working. Hi, how are you? I made you ask, hi. Hello. I can walk you through the menu, so we can definitely have the oysters, of course. And then you can also have the ceviche, the big egg tuna. It's just, um just the Caesar salad. We can pretend we're on a date.

Yeah, we can. Oh, for sure. People are definitely be talking about this. We'd make a piece of baby. We've been here with the new hot couple. I definitely think you said the Caesar is something we could both have. And then the tomato salad, which I'd recommend.

I would love to get you a lobster roll in lettuce wrap. OK, it's fine. Right, right. I mean, you as well, you get a good, a perfect. Yeah. I have a lot of sushi. Bring my mackerel bread. Okay, it's fine, right? Yeah, I mean, you as well, you gotta get a, perfect. Yeah, I have a, I'm not choosing, I'm not choosing. Bring my mouth with bread. It's fine.

If you want any tea, I could just some green tea. That would be amazing. Can I have a mocktail? So I'll try that with Chul-jen, yeah, perfect. I'm having. I know that you are, you were a big fan of literature growing up too.

You spoke about not having a ton of money, you know, instead of famifications, you were reading like Alesson Wonderland and you were exploring books and that was sort of your escapism. You know, did you ever imagine when you were a fan of literature that you would someday write? I think when I was a little girl and like my mom was at work, I'd always write little stories. I'd read a lot because what I found doesn't matter if you haven't got the money to do something, if you read you can be transported to another country, another life without getting your fingers burnt.

I always felt that sort of sense of power when you write. I always felt that sort of sense of power when you write. So I always did it. And then I studied literature, you say, before music. And I always liked the power of word because I'm no Mariah Carey, okay. But I always felt confident in the songwriting which is like a perfume version of writing. Do you know what I mean? It's like a coffee shot instantly, whereas writing a long story is taking you on a, it's more like a supper that we're gonna have. And you're a pull you in,

and really help the reader invest in you, is asking something different. We're gonna have a long-term relationship, I think. No, for sure, yeah. I'm also, I've been following a lot of your philanthropy. I'm like, I know that you're such an advocate for literacy, especially overseas. And you're sort of bringing that passion across the pond.

I just saw that on the today's show, you announced that you're working with the Barbara Bush Foundation. Tell me a little bit about that. Well, yes. So some of the percentages of the proceeds of the book will go to her foundation. And I always think the more you give to the world, the world will give to you. It's like everyone's a winner that way. And I was thinking, who can I give to?

And her foundation pops into my mind instinctively because what they do is brilliant. And I used to work with the United Nations. Yes, you were an ambassador. You were a professor of... Yeah, health care. Well done, good research. But anyway, but what I learnt there is if you educate a community, the whole economy, you know, goes up.

It's a proven fact. So you're sort of investing in that. But then I was thinking, for me, nobody likes to be preached. Nobody likes to be told what to do. So can you make it fun? So I always think hide vegetables in chocolate. Does that make sense?

Yes, absolutely. So it's really light. And the other thing is America gave so much to me. I don't think I would have had the success I've had if it wasn't for America because when I was little girl, when my mom was at work as well as reading, I was watching television, but American television. So I was watching Rocky, you know, and he was telling me, you can do it no matter where you're from, you can have that American dream or

Charlie's Angels, the Walten's, but it was always low as value. The 18 totally the 18 don't you love it when a plan comes together. Yeah, yeah. That's America. That's a very American can do attitudes. And so I thought, you know what, I feel like we're British, we're cousins here. We're sort of connected family.

So to keep that appreciation and love going, that's a wonderful thing. Yeah, but also all these shows that you mentioned, it's interesting because it is about kind of an underdog, the A-team is an underdog story, but I was struck by just from doing the research and then reading your book, like, how much of you is in this story? And just immediately chapter one. I mean, you lost your father at a very young age. And, you know, in the prologue, we learned that our protagonist has lost her mother. And, you know, just the scene of the protagonist at school and this sort of elite school, you teased because she just really belonged there.

It's also something that I think you experienced as a young person. So I was just, I was so taken by not only this idea of being an underdog and sort of creating an opportunity for yourself, which I think you've done both, obviously, in your music career, but then it seems that you're also carrying off into these stories as well.

Really wonderful messages about finding yourself and trusting yourself and being your own biggest fan, but then also just how you incorporated your own personal life. It seems like that was not a mistake. Right behind you. Oh my God. What is that? What is that?

So this is the Big Ituna. So the Big Ituna is wrapped around some chips. I'm then avocado. It's not the big tuna. So the big tuna is wrapped around some chips and then avocado. It's like a big heart. It does look like a heart. And then you're fermented it. Thank you so much. Okay you eat. I'm going to. Okay okay so I'll answer your question and you eat. I cut into this. Oh my god. Oh wow. It's beautiful. That looks so nice. It's beautiful. That looks so nice. No, so the point you're making about the underdog, I think everybody in their life can feel like an underdog or on the outside.

In any shape of form, we can all feel marginalized or just our human nature is born and belong and be filled part of. I think it's human nature. And if there's any kind of difference and it doesn't matter what it is, whether it's through race, religion, culture, gender, whatever it is, age, we can all find our differences,

but I think we're more alike than different. This is what I've found. We all want that sense of belonging and a feel appreciated. And in my own life I've had different experiences of that and I learnt through writing to write about what you know where you can use it you can turn that poop to fertilizer and it can just give a little bit of drive and substance to what your experiences and then

the chapter one I didn't write that chapter until the very end. It was the editor said to me, oh, I think you should give the backstory to where Rosie came from. Right. And so I wrote that. And then it wasn't a laughter. I finished. I went, oh my god, I've used my whole experience

when I was a child and my father died. I was studying Hamlet. And so it was very poignant. died, I was studying hamlet. Oh wow. Yeah, so it was very poignant. Yeah, it was very poignant. But what I experienced was through grief. I don't know if you've lost anyone. But when you lose someone in, I think in the Western world,

that you get a little bit embarrassed for your feelings. It's very so, oh yeah, it's an I didn't want to embarrass anybody else that anyone to feel uncomfortable, or it's in the East. They're very so much more open about death. So what I decided was, okay, the world needs a new hero. Someone that's not perfect, not alpha, and that's vulnerable, maybe this hero is about finding the courage you never knew had. And actually, maybe a modern hero, you feel their feelings? There's something also so, I don't know if you feel this way, but there's something so powerful about what's happening. Meeting Ivacardos.

Oh yeah, yeah, you meet Ivacardos, isn't it nice? It's really good. There's something so empowering about taking something that happened in your past and turning it into something that is bigger than what it was and it's offered to the world. There was an episode of the TV show I was doing, Modern Family. There was a flashback of a photo of me in high school. And so of course I used a real picture of me in high school. And it's this picture that when I see it, I remember like who I was at that time.

I remember I was ruthlessly bullied as a kid. It was horrible, man. Awful. But now I was taking this moment in time that people treated me a certain way and ostracized me because I looked a certain way or acted a certain way. And now I was using it on this huge hit TV show that I've nominated for five Emmys for.

And it was like only enriching this experience and this character. And I was offering it to the world now. And I was taking ownership of it. And it was only enriching the character that I was creating on the show and giving him more backstory. It was so true.

It was so gratifying for me. If you used it well, I'm so, do you know it well done you. I've had that thought as well. I'm like, everything is copied, everything is prologue. I can turn any piece of pain or poop to fertilize this, and that's what you did. I actually had that thought the other day. I thought, if it wasn't for those bullies,

I wouldn't have that sort of ingredient to put into this. I was like, thank you so much. Thank you so much. And that isn't that quite satisfying? Did you have a lot of boys growing up? Well, there was a few here and there, definitely. And, you know, we all know what the story is behind Billy, it's generally mean they feel disempowered themselves. And they sniff it out, you know, that if you're willing prey, and to find that strength within,

what is your battle shield? So the book is set in modern daytime, but cut back to 500 years ago, Queen Elizabeth I, she's just coming into being the queen, and there is massive pressure for her to get married and produce an heir. And she says, actually, do you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna build a school in honor of my mother, Ambulin. And she says, do you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to build a school in honor of my mother, Ambulin.

And she says, do you know what the pupils of this school, their ideas will be my heir? She's taking agency of her past. But if you think about it, would you want to get married if your dad had chopped your mother's head off? No, you wouldn't. You'd be a bit like, I'm going to rethink this.

And we can feel bullied. I am Berlin had a horrific time. If you were really unpacking it and look at it from a different angle, she was murdered that, so it's 30 with a two-year-old child. And all these smiling vipers or bullies turned against her because she was smart, different of her time.

And I'll sink him. So, Ambulin, she knows she's gonna die, right? And so what she does, she writes four rules, okay, they're Falcon Queen rules. She gives them to Queen Elizabeth I and Queen Elizabeth I uses those rules and then becomes the greatest monarch ever, right, of her time. Then five hundred years later Rosie Frost gets those rules and she sort of stands up to the bullies. She kind of finds a courage. She never knew she has. She enters what's called the Falcon Queen Games, which is a bit like

Squid Game but less violent. But the point is those four rules are embedded in there because anybody that feels marginalized or wants to find their power now can use those rules. Do you want to know what those rules are? Are you going to tell me? Yeah, why not? That's the whole point. Or you could just like fast page turn.

I put them in the back of the book. Can I tell you? Sure, yeah, sure. So one is have courage. Take the chance you fear the most. Number two is United We Stand, Divide the Week 4. the most. Number two is united we stand divided we fall. I know I can't do it by myself. The third one, and you've been talking about this,

it's never give up, be the light, serve your kingdom, you'll win your fight. So you said to me, do you know what? I've experienced all that horrible stuff when I was younger and then I put it into a character, okay? So you were the light, you were the example of greatness. The fourth one is, to thine own self be true. If you like it, not these rules, make up your own.

So it's basically Shakespeare who went to the school. Yeah. And it's saying, just make your own rules up. There's no right way to do it, which it sounds like you're doing it already. I'm trying. You're gonna need to, oh, oyster. That oysters are delicious. Are you gonna have one you're doing it already. I'm trying. You can eat it all oyster. The oysters are delicious. You can have one. I had one already. Look I always turn them

upside down when I've very had one. Oh that's the thing. That's the thing you do. Okay. I mean did you put that in? I put this one on. It's like a hot sort of thing. And that one was that. This is like a this could be like a vinegary it's shallot. Okay nice. And oysters are very, very good for you. They go zink in them. They zink. They zink? Zink, which is really good for you.

And why is it good for me? For your immune system? I always just thought they made you horny. No. That too? Maybe that too. Maybe that too. I mean, I was like, oh, watch out.

You're having a waste. I was like, I just never like that in some of my animals. They're really good for you. I've never noticed that it makes me anymore horny than I would be on in regular days. Well, maybe you feel more fortified. I guess so. Yeah, yeah, yeah, perhaps. Now for a quick break, but don't go away.

When we come back, I share a very special message with Jerry from my husband Justin. Okay, be right back. So it's no secret to anyone who knows me that I love to be in the kitchen. I love that with masterclass. I can be a student of some of the greatest chefs in the world, like Thomas Keller, Alice Waters, and Roy Choi. I don't know, watching these masters break down their technique and share their own stories of growth has made me so much more confident in the kitchen.

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That's masterclass.com slash dinners for 15% off. If you like a little danger with your romance and come on who doesn't, there's a new showtime original limited series for you. Fellow travelers from the writer of Philadelphia and the network that brought us homeland and the affair is part epic love story, part political thriller, and all-in on one big secret. It's the story of the risky, volatile, and very steamy relationship between two political staffers who fall in love at the height of the lavender scare. That's the McCarthy era campaign against gay government employees that you may not have learned about in school. Matt Boemer and Jonathan Bailey star as lovers whose fiery and forbidden affair intensifies through the anti-war protests of the 60s, the discocene of the 70s and the AIDS crisis of the 80s. All despite the constant threat being exposed and losing everything, including

each other. Don't miss the series premiere of Fellow Travelers streaming October 27th with the Paramount Plus with Showtime Plan. And we're back with more dinners on me. What's your husband like? Well, that's so interesting you ask, because I want to show you something. Yeah. What does he do for living? He's a lawyer. Okay, that's quite useful, isn't it? It is very useful

Okay, nice. Yeah He was really wanting to come so he could say hi and meet you, okay But he wasn't able to and he sent a message and I want to play it for you What kind of lawyer are you? He's a well he works with them. He does a lot of nonprofit work Okay, he upset about our founders. So I just gonna give you a heads up, because I love what he says in this,

and I actually want, I think it's actually a conversation starter. Otherwise, I would just show this to you afterwards, but I kind of want it to be a part of the pod. It is. What's his name? His name's Justin. I'm gonna warn you, it's three minutes long. So we're just gonna listen to him.

Okay. I was nine years old when the spice girls happened and it was like game changer. I couldn't understand all the that it was right for me. And I fell in love with you guys. And I can't pick a favorite though, if you look at my husband, you can tell I'm partial to Jin. I just couldn't handle it. My little gay heart was exploding with joy at all times.

And I didn't know I was gay, but I sure of. And why am I telling you this now and also what makes this different than any other love letter from a 30-something gay man that you've received is that you also were my first heartbreak when you guys broke up it was like devastating for me personally sleep and the fact that it ended as quickly as it began and yet remains still one of my top true loves and I'm just so sad I can't be there to tell you all this in person but it's probably better for both of us. I just want you to know that I love you so much and I'm so jealous that you're with my husband. And, um, yeah. I just hope someday I can give you a hug. Ah!

He's got beautiful smiles, isn't he? Let's do a message back. Okay. It's only fair. Put it on. What's his name again, sorry? Justin. Justin, that's gorgeous.

Hi, Justin. It's me, Jerry. I just want to say thank you so much for that gorgeous message. And if you connected with us or me in any way that's, I'm truly grateful and it's very flattering, that's the point. And I'm with your gorgeous husband and I see you have a partial for Ginger, which says a lot about you. He's got a very big heart and you've got a lovely smile. Anyway, and your lawyer, which is good and useful, because every flower needs a stem. That's what my mother says. So you sound very useful and you've got two lovely children, which you sound like a beautiful family. Anyway I just wanted to say hello and I look forward to meeting

you another time and send you much love and thank you for sharing your gorgeous story with me and be kissed. Bye. Thank you so sweet. But I mean what like I'm sure you've heard so many people tell you how much those, what Justin said that I actually hadn't really thought about is that it was such a quick thing, where I'm obviously talking about the spice girls now. It was an 18 month thing that happened when you were really in the thick of it. Obviously, there were reunions afterwards,

but really that the intense inception of that moment was 18 months. And yet here we are in 2023, and it still affects people so deeply on such a cellular level, as he said. I mean, I'm sure you hear that a lot and like what is your response to that? First of all, I'm truly grateful because that was the point. I think R, any kind of R, whether you are acting, music or books, is a voice for the voiceless. Sometimes you can't find the words and then somebody says it how you're feeling. And go, okay, I'm connected, that's it.

So it's always like, I always feel like, can I put my finger to the wind and feel the temperature of what the zychitis is feeling? And back then, I was like, it was a temperature of what everyone was feeling. And you were talking about how when you're writing, you like, to sort of wrap things in chocolate, wrap the vegetables in chocolate. I mean, I think in a lot of ways, a lot of the message of the songwriting that you're

so known for as a group, you know, also did that same thing so beautifully, you know, talking about empowerment and, you know, I mean, obviously, girl power, but like just self-love, I think, but in a way that was fun and it was yeah thank you obviously melodic and fun with costumes and girl power to me is if really is about it the equalization for everyone you said about love so sometimes a pendulum needs to swing before it ticks in the middle so So it's not just about girls, it's about everyone, whatever race, gender, who Jews to be, all of that.

It's sort of the, like, insulation of something. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's so many people who know you and have opinions of the snapshot of you that happened for like 18 months. And, you know, I, and this deep dive that I was doing, I don't know if they're unauthorized, opinions of the snapshot of you that happened for like 18 months. Yeah. And, you know, I, and this deep dive that I was doing, I, there's, I don't know if they're unauthorized, but there's, there's so many like documentaries behind the scenes things.

And I, I stumbled upon something that was basically in the moments before you all were signed to a record label when you were living in a house together. Oh, yeah. Kind of creating a band that wasn't even at that time called, you know, the spice girls. It was called something else at the time. This just me speaking for myself as a viewer, I found, you know, a lot of you to be really misogynistic, you know, with the men who were putting this thing together. And what I love about it is, in the end of that, you all decided you had the power.

And you said, we're actually not going to go with you as a manager because no contracts had been signed and you took the power into your own hands and as a group of five created your own destiny which then became the spice girls. Yeah, very frankenstein isn't it? It is but also like the fact that you know you were a group of people in varying an age obviously from I don't know 18 18 to 20 something, but that you had the wherewithal, and obviously the friendship and the trust between the five of you to do that as a group is really quite remarkable. I don't know where that confidence comes. Maybe it's youthful bravado, but I was like...

I mean, it seemed that way when I was watching, but it was very charming. Yeah, you get away with it when you're here, yeah, with younger. I don't know, I've always felt like, maybe, I think Bob Dylan said it, you know, this isn't an album, it's a movement. I've always felt like, maybe it's very woodstocky, we're in this together kind of thing. I've always felt like this band of brothers and sisters

stand together. Right. I've always felt like that way. Something else I found very interesting is that there was so much work that you all did as a group before you ever were in like a stadium doing a show. Yeah. Basically, that was almost at the end of your 18 months.

Do you remember the time when you felt like you had that connection with mostly, it seemed like, you know, young girls, and you were able to relay that message of of self-worth and power was there a defining moment when I was like oh we connected yeah sure the funny thing with me I've always like I don't think I think when you're in the eye storm you can't quite absorb that's 100% true. But I've always had that feeling of, yeah, getting back to that youthful rvado of, I don't know, this sort of this identity that I'm on a mission. Come on, we're doing this. And I always felt

very pleased when other people were connecting and joining. For me, you know, the spice girls belongs to everyone and it puts gas in your tank. Sure. It really does. It gives you the impetus to push things forward. Do you know there's music in the battle? I do and I listen to both the side of the game. So I listen to... If you come from a musical background, so... I did musical theatre. Okay, so Totally up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Number two is that's what I was gonna say. I was I was with my 11-month-old and I was Beating in his bottle. I was listening to the song Sullivan is the Sullivan Sullivan. Yeah, but anyway, I was I was with him last night listening to the the two tracks that are

Connected to the book and the ghosts in the house, that was called, that came on and Sullivan did not want his bottle anymore. He just wanted to pop his head and dance around. So it is quite a jam, yes. Did you listen to the piece we're like? We're excited, yeah. That's more you, isn't it? Going through turning all your crap

that you've experienced into something good. Yeah. It's also interesting listening to these songs before really diving into the book, all your crap that you've experienced into something good. Yeah, it's also interesting to listen to these songs before really diving into the book because it sort of set the table. That's the point of it, is to help you emotionally to go, okay, now I know where I'm at, it's to help the reader to go, okay, this is the feeling, this is where we're at. I really enjoyed it. I have a friend of mine, I actually have one more multimedia thing to show you.

It's a friend of mine who's also has a three-year-old. I really do. Found out I was going to be talking to you. I was asking her when I was lunch with her the other day, not even knowing that I was going to be talking to you. I was like, who are you going as for Halloween this year? So this is what I was sent later that day. It's dark right now. Thank you very much. I need some little hair in hell.

Hey you, always on your own. So there will be a past summer. That's so adorable. Isn't that adorable? That's adorable. What I love about this is, first of all, that moment in time is so far before she was born. She looks nothing like you. There's not a stitch of red hair, and she connects with you.

It's something I think it's that essence of what you all have these different sort of essences. That makes me so happy. I'm so happy that makes you happy, yeah. Yeah, it's brilliant because it's actually that. It's our inside. It's really saying, actually, regardless of wherever you exactly that is our inside. Yeah, it's really saying actually regardless of You're wherever you're from our insides are more like than different the spirit of you right within me

Within each other and the other thing is do you know what's really satisfying? Because you know those first two lines of that song. Yeah, I wrote those two lines and I was in bed in my little cottage. Oh, amazing. Yeah. And they were sort of coming to me in my mind. And then the next day I went into the studio and I'm like, what do you think about this? La-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la. You know, it's like that.

And so to the fact that somebody is being, you know, a little girl. That moment that you had in a cottage, now it's like... 25 years later, this little girl, you know, is repeating that it's beautiful. Interest in... Yeah, yeah, it's beautiful. The this girl you know is repeating that is beautiful. Yeah yeah it's beautiful. The dress that I from what I understand you the Union Jack dress which I understand you made yourself on a whim. I can also relate to this because I did a character and this musical called the

25th annual Putnam County Spelling Bee. I don't know if you know of it. The 20th the 25th annual Putnam County Spe beam. Okay. And it was on Broadway and once in Tony Awards. I can't this is the one you got the Tony Awards. No, this is not the one I got the Tony Awards. Okay. But this is something I did 20 years ago, I'm honest. Okay. And did you lie doing it? I did. I loved it. I loved it. But I created the character from scratch and I was done through a workshop process. And we all brought in ideas for these characters. And one of the things that I decided my character was going to have was a cape.

Just he has a cape that he made for himself. And he wears it. And there's no explanation about the cape. We never comment about the cape. It's just something that he has. It's your invisible shield. It's his invisible shield. Yeah.

OK, nice. I love that. And now, to this day, anytime I go see a production of spelling bee, you know, there's this character that has a cape on. And that's the thing I made in my little, so I feel that there's, there you go. I have to get it.

Yeah. Your birthday soon, isn't it? October 22nd, yes. Okay, so you're scoping. Libra. Libra, yeah, yeah. You're the only non- more in the whole social system. Yeah, that's right.

What's your husband? He's a... He's on September 10th. He's Virgo. Where did you meet your husband? I met my husband and I didn't meet my husband until I was... I was thought... Actually, I met in... There's a picture of us meeting,

how many years ago, probably about, I know, 13 years ago, something like that. Do you ever watch F1? There are many things. So many people when I said I'm sitting down with you were like, oh, they know all about your husband as well. Yes. It's a very, very popular thing.

I don't know a lot about F1, but now I've read up on it. Are you really? You'd really enjoy it. But you'd like it because it's very showing, it's more than just about racing. It's about perfectionism, teamwork, characters, and I really have a lot of admiration for that sport and I met him on a grid which is the race in Monaco There's a picture of us shaking hands. You know when you sort of go hello Yeah, yeah, and I was like hello And then we met a couple of years later properly. Why were you in Monaco? Because I've always loved racing. My father was a car dealer, and I was there to enjoy the race. I was invited by someone else. Gotcha.

Yeah. Was he a fan of yours that you know who you were? I don't know. I could tell that you know, potentially he might fancy me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can feel it. Well, you're very, very good looking. You're very cute.

Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're very cute. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's very kind of you to say that. Well, it's not hard to say. So I am going back to Spice Girls first, but from all that, because at this moment in your history, does fascinate me.

When you decided to actually pick up and go, I mean, you've been very open about just being incredibly overworked, feeling redundant, which is also something that I can relate to when you're doing a job for I did something for 11 years and like, you know, you start to feel like, what more can I offer? But what really struck me, and I think it was just sort of a sign of the times, was how overworked you all were. I mean, I keep talking about this 18 months And it's such an important timeline because it really was non-stop Go go go go for 18 months and you know, they're there came a point where you in the in the tour

He said, you know, I have to I have to take care of myself and I have to I have to leave and listen to what I need Which is incredibly remarkable and brave. Do you feel like if you had been offered or given a month off or a summer off? Like I'm looking at Taylor Swift and what she's doing right now. And she does this three hour show, it's over three hours, it's three and a half hours,

and she's doing so many cities, but now she's taking like three months off, granted she's in charge of herself. But I wonder, would there have been maybe more steam in your engine if you had been given a little bit more, afforded more time and given a little bit more room to breathe? I think, you know, I was 25 years old, 26 years old, and I don't think at that age I didn't have the tools to express what was going on, but having said that, you know I'm so grateful I like what you said about your experience, but I just look back, I love being

with the girls and look back at that time in my life that it's a bit like university students, do you know what I went to university and you think that was just a moment that you cannot express the gratitude and of what we went through together. And then like, I'm doing something now. But I always look back at it with such, you know, with bonness and gratitude. So.

What was it, because the tour kept going without you, what was it like to see that happen without you? I think the Spice Girls belongs to everyone. Yeah, no, you know what I mean? So I felt like it'd be graceful about it. Do you know what I mean? It's a summer ballpark. I mean, Jerry, I had to once call out of a show

and I felt like I was like, I could not believe that they were going on without me. Like I was so devastated. And I was like, I was doing a show on Broadway and I had to, it it was taking me out. The show I just did. And I had some vocal injury,

and I had to take my EMT was like, you have to take time off. Or else you're gonna hurt yourself. And knowing my understudy was on stage, just. I think that with us human, isn't it? I think our humanness, Jun and me, we can all part of our, you know, and then I would say, um, but then there's having that ability and reflections, say, actually

something bigger than their individual Jun and me, that show that you did or whatever is, whatever it is, it's always bigger than me. It's like a football team, right? Juno mean. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, we dive into being vulnerable and putting yourself on the line. And she also talks to me about pivoting into being an author. And I talk about a very vulnerable moment that still sticks with me to this day.

It involves sports. Okay, be right back. It involves sports. Okay. Be right back. Groovy, new name. Subscribe to the Official Prince Podcast now to get the first episode as soon as it drops. The story of diamonds and pearls is produced in collaboration with NPG records, Paisley Park Enterprises, Sony Music Entertainment, and Warner Records. I'm launching a new series called Curious Now. Every other week on Curious Now, we're covering major news stories or stories that should be major. Elections, climate change, LGBTQI plus rights. I'm so excited to be bringing you my journalist, adjacent best,

and best of all, getting curious isn't going anywhere. Listen to Curious Now every other Monday wherever you get your podcasts. And getting curious every Wednesday is usual. And we're back with more dinners on me. Can I just tell you I had to do the first, you know, when they do the pitch, the pitch, there are pitches that you can see me doing the first bit. I did the same thing to please tell me about yours. Okay.

How did it go? It went, okay, for anyone that didn't, I didn't know this, right? But perhaps. Wait, what did you tell the first pitch for? The Dodgers. The LA Dodgers. Okay. Okay.

And they said to me, they said to me, if this ball bounces, it's a bad luck for the team. So I was like, okay, and I was like, okay, no pressure. And I'm one of these people that I have this philosophy that say failed to prepare, prepared to fail. So you're going to go and practice. Yes. I went and practiced. Of course. And then I put my little outfit on, and it went all right, it didn't bounce.

It did good. It did okay. What happened to you? Tell me. It still makes me like my skin fall a little bit. Oh no, oh no, what happened? Okay. Do you want some of this crap? No, I, because I have, that's the lobster roll and I've had mine in bread. That's yours, it's just in lettuce,

because it's gluten-free. No, it's really nice. It's really nice. That is really nice. So it was LGBTQ night at the Dodger Stadium. Okay. And they asked me to throw the first pass. I know, that's great, that's great.

And so Eric Stone Street, who played Cam and Modern Family, we went together. That's so sweet. And he is very, he's athletic, he's good with sports. He does all those things very, very well. So he was like, let me see your pitch. So I showed it to him. He's like, OK, let's go over and work on this.

So he basically coached me through it. I was doing really good Then the time started getting closer and closer close to when I was actually gonna have to throw the first pitch And as we're continuing to practice the ball starts going in like weird ways. I'm just getting nervous It is getting the best of me. I'm like I'm a great additional like when I'm in my element. I can handle things but You put a baseball on my hand. I'm freaking out. And the stadium is full of people. I mean, it's huge. I've never been in front of that many people before. So it comes to its point where I have to throw the first pitch. And they already put you closer

to the batter or the catcher then. Yeah, they helped me out a little bit. And I thought the only thing that is going to make me be okay with this moment is I just take the moment it's my own hands and make a comedy bit out of it. So I wound up to do the pitch and then I jogged up to the catcher and I just dropped the ball into his mitt. And like that's the photo that if you look on like me. I thought so too. However the, I was gonna call him the audience.

Well, they were the audience. The crowd, it was a combination of laughter but also a lot of booing. Oh no! And it took me right back to being a kid and not being good at sports. I was gonna be booed. Because I was sort of like,

they were saying it's okay. I was pushing out on it. Like I wasn't, you know, I wasn't doing it. I was copying out. And to this day, I wish I had just thrown the ball, and I wish I had done a better job. Not because I was ashamed about getting booed or whatever, but I just feel like why did I have to do that? Why couldn't I have done my best? We can look back at it and go, okay,

that's what we did at the time. When I step out of my comfort zone, I'm not, here's the truth, I'm always terrified. Yeah. I'm always terrified. Okay, that pitch, if I could change it, we can't change it past this, done. Maybe you're gonna get another go,

maybe we could bring, maybe I'm gonna ring them up for you and say he wants another go, right? I do want another go. I would love to do it again. I think we're gonna ring them up, I'm gonna ring them up for you, say he wants another go, right? I do want another go. I would love to do it again. I think we're gonna ring them up. I'm gonna ring them up. If you give me their number, I'll ring them up for you. Give them another go.

1-800 Dodger Yes. Okay, but next time, do it and then say, actually you have the humility to try again. Yeah. And I'm doing this this time to show for anybody that, you know, we're allowed to fail with that part of the process. I've failed a million times. Do it again.

That's the difference. It's something I already know. I'm so good at picking myself up in other situations, but for some reason, just out of my comfort zone. Out of comfort zone. Out of comfort zone. We all feel out of control. We all do. You can't change it found out control. We will fill out of control. Yeah.

We will do. You can't train yet. You have to love yourself for it. Yeah. When you first offered your writing to the world, having the history of being a pop star, what was that transition from music into this? Because I mean, it's a very vulnerable thing

to write something and then give it to the world. And I mean I thought that way even just writing a cookbook. I've always loved writing, I've always loved books. I mean you as an actor and I've done a bit of an acting, the same with writing. When we are most vulnerable on the page or you know, present on the screen, that's when it's the most connective. No airbrushing. That's the most interesting, don't you think? I do. When it will idiots, or real happy messes at different times. But I'll allow and that's not easy, that's brave. All the millennials, you know, they are telling us how they feel. I think, okay, we're not holding it in. I think it's healthier not to hold it in and just, okay, we're gonna share it.

I had noticed so many people reference you as in the music world is a massive, you know, you end the four other spice girls as an influence to them. You know, everyone from Adele to Taylor Swift. I just want to leave this one anecdote because I brought up Adele. I met her at the Super Bowl party of a mutual friend of ours and I walked in and I was like, oh my gosh, she's one of my all-time favorites and I got up the courage and I said hello to her and she was very kind, very nice and she's talking to me. And Justin, my husband was talking to someone else about the spice girls and she whipped her head around. And all of a sudden she and Justin were in this intimate, deep conversation, like they connected on,

like that's what they connected on, was their mutual love for the spice girls. That's so nice. And I was sort of like left out to dry. And I was like, well, I'm the big fan here. But like she went in, they exchanged numbers. She was like, oh, I'm the big fan here. But she went in, they exchanged numbers. She was like, oh, so we ended up like actually we had her over for a dinner one night,

but only because she and Justin connected on. Like, she's just. Yeah. That's so nice. Yeah, yeah, but she's a massive fan as I'm sure you already know. So. No, I feel very flattered that anyone can connect

with what we've done before, I feel very and flattered that anyone can connect with, you know, what we've done before and very grateful. I cannot wait to finish this book. It's really wonderful. Thank you very much. I can't wait for my kids to order enough. I can read some of your other books to them. And then Rosie Frost is for any age, really. Like my husband read it. And he went to me, okay, you're related to this, right? So my husband, when I was writing it, I would go, would you read it? And I just read it and he goes, no, wait, I'll wait until it's published, right? I was like, okay. Anyway, it's now okay. Nine years later, it's finally out. Okay? And he takes it on one of his travels. The first thing he says to me, 100 pages in, he goes, oh, it's much better than I thought it was going to be. I thought cheers. Thank

you very much. And then he said, oh, I couldn't put it down. I just wanted to find out what happened. Then I thought, oh, okay, my work is done because he's a reluctant reader. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you know what I mean, he's very blokey bloke. So he's not a big reader, so I was at very, I love that he was just reading a hard copy.

Yeah. Rosie Frost on the train. There we go. This manly man in. Yeah, very manly man. It is, so I thought actually the fact I can get him, but also it should mean it's for anyone. That's what I'd like to think it is.

I really appreciate you taking the time. Oh my gosh, thank you so much for doing this. Thank you very much. It's so lovely meeting you. I sculpted her. Yeah, we did good. Dinner's on me is a production of Neon Hum Media, Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions.

It's hosted by Yours Truly. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Chloe Chobal is our associate producer, Sam Bear engineered this episode. Hansdale She composed our theme music. Our head of production is Samuelison, special thanks to Alexis Martinez and Justin McKeeda. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson.

Join me next week. you