Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - GIA COPPOLA — on making ‘The Last Showgirl’ and on the inspiration she pulls from her filmmaking family

Episode Date: February 18, 2025

'The Last Showgirl’ director Gia Coppola joins the show. Over pesto sorrel bowls and ricotta toast, Gia tells me about the wisdom she’s gleaned from her grandfather Francis Ford Coppola, the impact of ‘Jaws’ on her, and her love of Las Vegas. This episode was recorded at Sqirl in East Hollywood, CA. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Today on the show, you know her as the director of Pamela Anderson's recent film, The Last Showgirl. It's Gia Coppola. Well, I hadn't seen Godfather until much later in my life, because all my family had sort of been a part of it and seen it, so no one really wanted to re-watch. This is Dinners on Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Born into one of the most iconic families in film history, Gia Coppola carries the weight

of a cinematic dynasty while striving to forge her own unique path in the creative world. She made a huge impact with her most recent film that she directed, The Last Showgirl, which starred the iconic Pamela Anderson as an aging showgirl in Las Vegas. Pam Anderson's performance was nominated for a Golden Globe and a SAG award. As the granddaughter of Frances Ford Coppola and niece of Sofia Coppola, Gia grew up amongst legendary storytellers

whose work has defined eras of filmmaking. Her journey as an artist is a compelling blend of honoring her lineage and collaborating with her family, but also establishing her own identity. Gia's work reflects a deeply personal perspective. By focusing on small, intimate stories rather than grand, epic narratives, Gia demonstrates a commitment to authenticity and exemplifies the delicate dance of an artist

shaped by her lineage, but defined by her own distinct voice. How are you? Oh, you're so cute. I brought Gia Coppola to Squirrel in East Hollywood. Founded by chef and owner Jessica Koslow in 2011, the restaurant started as a small jam company before evolving into a full-fledged culinary destination. That's so LA, am I right?

Koslow's background in fine dining and her meticulous approach to flavor help shape Squirrel's signature dishes like the gorgeous ricotta toast with a rainbow row of house-made jams or the sorrel pesto rice bowl which blend comforting familiar ingredients with bold unexpected twists. Now don't be surprised to see a line out the door at lunchtime. The restaurant straddling the neighborhoods of Los Feliz and Silver Lake has long attracted a creative, food savvy crowd, from artists and writers to filmmakers and musicians, all drawn to its playful menu and effortlessly cool vibes.

I thought it would be the perfect spot to bring the effortlessly cool Giacopola. Okay, let's get to the conversation. Were you guys okay with the Encino fire? We were, yeah. It came creeping over the hill toward us, but we did actually have to evacuate. But we also self evacuated a little earlier because I have two young kids and dogs. Yeah, yeah. Super stressful.

But we were okay. How are you? Yeah, we were fine. We evacuated too. I have a one and a half year old, so we were like trying to get out. We all, at one point the first night, all my whole family and I went to my aunt's house and we all slept on the floor.

So in a way it was kind of a fun sleepover, but given the circumstances. My kids, we went to my in-laws and they were just like excited to hang out at Grammy and grandpa's house. Like it was an adventure for them. At one point when we actually really did have to evacuate cause the fire was truly coming before it was like self evacuation.

And we there was like cumulus clouds coming over the ridge. My son was just like so fearless about it though. He's like, Oh, that that fire is actually very close. Yeah, we're leaving. But yeah, I know that, you know, you were meant to do a lot of press with last show girl during it. Yeah, our premiere actually canceled. It was like the same week that was going on.

So, I mean, it was crazy. Oh, god, that's insane. Yeah. I'm a SAG voter, so I watched a screener of it of quite a few weeks ago. I loved it so much. Oh, thank you. It's a beautiful film.

Thank you. That car actually, I bet that car should be, hopefully it's driving to like an auto shop. Yeah, he needs some help. There's something dragging under there. We had Kiernan Shipka on the podcast a few months ago and there was just such buzz around it. And so I felt really so excited to finally see it.

It's such a special film. Yeah, we had a lot of love going into it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this is interesting. I know Kate Gerstin from years ago. Oh really? Oh amazing. She performed with my good friend, Kevin Cahoon,

in a production of Hedwig and the Angry Inch. She was the understudy. He played Hedwig and she played Yitzhak, opposite of him. And they became really good friends. And I know that she'd gone on to be a really great writer and like Mozart in the Jungle is one of my favorite TV shows that she was a creator on. And to see her name attached to this,

I thought it was so, I just, I had no idea that she was part of this and so proud of her, my God. Yeah, yeah. How, now I know there's family relations and I should just say Kate Gerson's the one who wrote the screenplay for The Last Showgirl, but it was based off of the play that she wrote. Can you tell me about how it was adapted and how you two hooked up? Yeah.

I mean, well, she's married to my cousin Matt Shire. So we were quarantining together during COVID, and my cousin Matt knows that I love Las Vegas. And he's like, my family was like, oh, you're so strange, why do you like Las Vegas? And I mean, I've always, during college, I was a photo major and I would drive cross country to move my car back and forth. Bard College is where I went.

I'd always stop in Vegas and I'd love to take photos and just kind of wonder what life is like there and what is it like to live there. And I guess I was talking about that during COVID and Matt was like, you know, who else loves Vegas as much as you do is Kate. And she wrote this play when she was at Juilliard. And I guess she was doing, she says the pattern

between songs for a show that was sort of overtaking the Jubilee Showgirl show. Okay, so yeah, Jubilee, I mean, you and I know, but so Jubilee was a show that was in Vegas that was like iconic, I guess, really truly is like probably the longest running Showgirl show. And it just closed recently, right? It closed like 2014, 16.

Yeah, so not too long ago. But yeah, so she was sort of observing how it was getting petered out, and it was this big lavish, 80 women dancing on stage and a lot of stage hands, but like 10 people in the audience. And she was thinking how fascinating it was, and so she wrote this play really fast 10 years ago.

And I at the time was sort of craving to make just like an intimate movie. I was sort of frustrated with like the waiting game of the industry. And when I was a kid, my family, my grandpa would always sort of like have us do one act plays. Who's your grandpa? Friends for a couple of, okay. So like working with my family and being creative

was always just sort of instilled in us. And so it made sense, like why not make a movie together? And I thought about Kate's play and that sort of structure of not a lot of locations, not a lot of cast I thought about Kate's play and that sort of structure of not a lot of locations, not a lot of cast was made sense to sort of, to make a small independent film. And in doing that, I can keep my creative autonomy. It's, you know, no one's telling me who I have to cast. And yeah, so my mom did the costumes.

My cousin Robert, Matt's brother, was the producer, Kate, my cousin, was the writer, one of my aunts was the script supervisor, it was like all my friends from high school were like heads of department pretty much. I love that. So it was really fun, but, and yeah, we made it in like 18 days really fast.

So fast. Yeah. That's so fast. Wait, I have some questions about the costumes actually, because they're very, especially the showgirl costumes are incredible. We're many of those like actual showgirl costumes, I assume, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, so it's funny, like going into like wanting to just make this small independent movie, but then it's like, oh wait, these costumes are really- You need the opulence. Yeah, extravagant. And my mom was like, you can't make this movie unless you have these costumes. you can't make them.

You can't, and we were fortunate enough that Deida Von Teese was doing her show that was sort of an homage. Oh my God, I love her so much. Yeah. I guess she's our modern day, I mean, what would you, how would you categorize her? Well, she's burlesque, so it's a bit different.

And the show girls and like that whole world are very adamant that they're distinct or very different art forms. But, and Dina knows that and I was aware of it. So she really guided us of like how to make sure that we didn't like cross any. Cross into those. Yeah.

But she was able to help us sort of access those costumes. So they were the original costumes from the Jubilee. Oh, no way. Yeah. Oh, that's incredible. Yeah. So, I mean, they were the original costumes from the Jubilee. Oh, no way. Yeah. Oh, that's incredible. Yeah. So, I mean, they were like museum pieces. They hadn't left the building in 30 years. And like, Pamela said that, like, some of the names were still written

on the back of the costumes. Oh, wow. It says Pamela Anderson, who is your lead. Pamela Anderson, yeah. That's incredible. Yeah. I mean, Pamela Anderson was so incredible in the film, nominated for a SAG Award for Best Actress. So, but how, what was it like securing Pam in that role? I mean, that must've been such,

the whole DNA of the film must've changed. I mean, having someone like Pamela Anderson, who's such an icon. I mean, I was listening to an older podcast of hers, and they were sort of dissecting how, when she was doing Baywatch, she was arguably the most famous person in pop culture at that moment.

I mean, everyone knew her name. Everyone knew what she looked like. I mean, she was so famous and still is so famous. And then obviously with this documentary that she did recently about her life and rehearsing for Chicago, which I didn't see her in, but I heard she was incredible in and I can only imagine she was

because seeing what she did with The Last Showgirl, I saw versatility in her that she probably has never gotten the opportunity to show. First of all, I was thinking what a gift it was probably for her to play a role like Shelly in The Last Showgirl. But also, I mean, truly what just the history of what she who she is as a person bringing that if there's so much unspoken subtext and nuance that she brings to the movie and the role. I mean, what was that like for you to know that she was, could be the one taking over the role of Shelly and bringing it to life. Well, I was sort of thinking about who could play

the role of Shelly and on the page, she's like a very distinct character. You can really hear her. But like, no one was really coming to mind. Like you kind of fantas fantasize about a Marilyn. Because I think the character is so nostalgic herself. You bring yourself to that era of actors. So Matt was like, I know who your Shelly is,

watch Pamela Anderson's documentary. But it did feel kismet because I saw a picture of her circulating from press for the documentary and I was sort of wondering, what about her? She'd be so interesting given this kind of history. And I was such a kid kind of during that heyday that she's sort of just this icon, but it wasn't really, I never watched the show.

But I think watching the documentary, I just saw someone I really liked as a human. Like she's so soft and sensitive, but there's so much quiet strength to that sort of vulnerability. And yes, like I could see a lot of similarities with the character of Shelley and Pamela herself, like women sort of defined by their exterior beauty,

but feeling like so much more and undervalued for kind of who they really are. And Marilyn was similar in that way. And I related so much to what Pamela's taste was. She is such a wealth of admiring classical cinema and reading her book, and she loves to cook and she loves philosophy and Carl Jung and a lot of things that I like and French New Wave. So I just felt like I was gonna bond with her. Yeah. And I really just didn't want to take no for an answer and I

think also seeing like because she wasn't you know she was undervalued as an artist and and craving to express herself that way there there was a desire to really want to like hand her that opportunity because I knew she would run with it. Yeah. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Gia reveals the films that have impacted her, including the iconic film Showgirls, and we bond of her not doing well in school.

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to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash JTF. And we're back with more Dinners on Me. Did we ever wait our Joanna? No, this is my first day. You know how I do. Okay, what can I tell you? Hey doll, you come here often? Joanna's gonna take our order to go to the counter.

I'm gonna do the pesto rice bowl with salmon. Good choice. And then I think G and I should share the ricotta toast. The faint one? Yeah. You want anything to drink? Yeah, I want an almond milk latte. Iced?

No, I want it hot. Hot? Mm-hmm. I'm cold. Right, and what can I get for you? Thank you. Can I have the sorrel pesto rice bowl, the biggie, with the chicken sausage and kale avocado?

What can I get to drink? the biggie with the chicken sausage and kale avocado. What can I get to drink? May I have an almond milk matcha latte please? I'll do that hot to swap. Are you nervous to leave us? What if we go off the rails? Make sure it stays red. Were you a fan of Showgirls, the movie Showgirls?

Yeah. Okay. That actually might've been the genesis of what my conversation with Matt, like because I sort of like way back during that time, I was like trying to investigate, could you remake the Pete Vanderhoeven Showgirls? Right. And I think everyone thought I was crazy,

but now it's like super trendy. Yeah. But then with Kate's play, I was actually really struck with getting to know the real etiquette of the Showgirl industry and like that symbol is like so much a part of Las Vegas, but the real show doesn't exist anymore. And so I was really inspired to kind of learn more

about the actual craft versus the Pete Banner version, but I do love that version. I love Gina Gershon. So good. I mean, I just revisited that film over the pandemic. My husband had never seen it. Oh my God. And it's one of those movies that when people say

they haven't seen it, oh by the way, I have an admission to make to you in a moment. But when people say they haven't seen Showgirls, I'm like, are you insane? Yeah. Like that for me is required viewing. I just find it to be such a, I mean obviously it has a camp quality

and it's a cult classic. I just love it so much. And we had Kyle McLaughlin on that, on this podcast. And I was like, I'm not trying to make you feel like, because he has mixed feelings about being a part of it. And I was like, I truly, I'm not just saying it to be funny, I really love the film.

I enjoy it. And I enjoy it on many levels. I enjoy that it's campy and it kind of is over the top. Like it all makes sense to me. It's actually a really smart movie. And I've like, there's some great think pieces on it. It's like the obviously it's like all about Eve, which I love.

And like then it's the sort of metaphor for the grotesqueness of Hollywood. And that sort of over the top camp. But when you're talking about films that people haven't seen, I'm nervous to tell you this, but I mean, I've never seen The Godfather. Oh. And it's one of those films that people say like,

that's one that people cannot believe I've never seen. But I was, I mean, I know you're such a film buff. Are there, you obviously must be incredibly influenced by both your aunt Sophia and your grandfather's filmmaking, but what other filmmakers are you inspired by that aren't your family members? But also are there things that you're ashamed to admit that you haven't seen yet that are considered classics?

Well, I hadn't seen Godfather until much later in my life because there was like a lot of pressure and intimidation but also all my family had sort of been a part of it and seen it. So no one really wanted to rewatch that with me. I understand. So it wasn't until like my mid late 20s when I saw it, like a friend would like sat me down and was like,

I'm gonna watch this with you. And... Can I ask what she thought? like, I'm gonna watch this with you. Can I ask what she thought? Oh, I mean, it's amazing. I mean, I hear so much about like his process of it, like those stories I've heard over and over and over again, but to just see, yeah, I mean, it's an epic. It's like, it feels like a novel, all the nuances.

I like when things have this undercurrent of America and our hunger for that American dream and what that means. I was thinking about what are some of my favorite movies? Like I always say Jaws is one of my favorites just because that's just like really tight and like never felt the same about water ever again. That's right, yeah. And also a lesson on how to shoot things on a budget and still there's such restraint in that film

that I found, you know, I didn't think about those things when I was watching it for the first time. I was just scared shitless. But now as an adult in someone film that I found, I didn't think about those things when I was watching it for the first time. I was just scared shitless. But now as an adult in someone who's made films, I'm like, oh wow, they've restrained the creativity that they had to figure out that movie. It's really incredible. Yeah, and how those accidents actually happen so often

and you have to just sort of have creative thinking and how that served the project. Yeah, yeah. And performance and the shots and like, yeah. So I love that movie. Social Network's a huge one for me. Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah.

I feel like David Fincher, like seeing his movies were like, oh, that makes me want to make movies. Yeah, it was incredible. But I don't know, like, I've never seen Gone With The Wind. Me either, me either. That's the other one. Those are the two, Godfather and Gone With The Wind are the two that I'm like, I feel like people look at me

like I have three heads when I tell them I haven't seen those. Yeah. The one that, I have several friends who've told me they've never seen Sound of Music. Oh yeah, okay. Have you seen that one? I saw that when I was like a kid, yeah. Yeah, see for me it was one of those

that I would watch every year and so much so that I actually didn't realize, because it was on live television and my parents would let me stay up late and watch it. Same with Wizard of Oz. But there was a point of the film where there was a commercial break and with Sound of Music it was right before

basically the Nazis were introduced and you realize that was a whole subplot. Oh my God, I totally forgot. Yeah, it's been so long. It's been a while. And, but my parents would always be like, oh, and that's the end. It was like basically like lonely goat herd.

And then they'd like, and that's the end of the movie. Even though there was like another hour. And so for the longest time, I thought that's the way the sound of music ended. And then I watched it all the way through. Then I was like, oh, there's a whole other act here that I've been deprived of. Yeah, totally duped.

But yeah, that's why that people, when they say they haven't seen sound of music, like that's a big one for me. Yeah. I'm always fascinated by, and I have several friends who I have, do have family members who are successful in the entertainment industry,

and are entertainers themselves. I mean, how has it been for you? Because you really do have a very distinct voice. I watched your very first film, Palo Alto, which I really loved, and I saw so much of that style carried over with the last show girl. And I do want to talk also about the sort of the evolution of the 10 years between those two projects.

But how has it been for you to acknowledge the legacy that you come from and then also carving out your own path within that? Thank you. Wow, these are big. Thank you. Oh, they're opposite here, yeah. you come from and then also carving out your own path within that. Thank you. Wow, these are big. Thank you. Oh, they're opposite here, yeah.

No worries. That's beautiful. Yeah. I think when I was a kid, like I wasn't interested in filmmaking just because it felt like a lot of pressure. But then I studied photography and I had a great teacher like I feel like once you I really struggled in school and like once

I had this professor Stephen Shore who's an amazing photographer and he really showed me to just like love learning and art. And it was so not about anything technical. To this day, I don't know how to set up any lights or any sort of digital photography. It's like I had a giant eight by 10 camera that I had to lug around in the winter, the East Coast winter, and you put your head

under the fabric and take your picture, but it was so much about being thoughtful with what you wanted to capture and what is the sort of concept behind it and letting other things fuel your inspiration and reading and so forth. And from there, I kind of just discovered that I wanted to challenge myself more

and that storytelling in movies was an extension of photography, but it invites more people and can be collaborative. And it's all these things that I love, like music and costumes and set design. And so I just kind of naturally would start gravitating to making like little films with my friends and when I got the opportunity to make Palo Alto, it still felt really kind of intimate.

None of the pressure of like where was this going to go or how is it going to be seen was ever really in my mindset. So I think I was beautifully kind of naive in a way. You were 27 when you made that 26 or 27. Yeah, around then, yeah. So I guess from there, because I wasn't thinking about the aftermath and I think that's so important when you're making something

is making it for you, your community, something that you wanna express. Yeah, something to be shared, yeah. Yeah. And that happened again with Showgirl, you know, I just wanted to make something. I didn't wanna deal with the waiting game and oh, you can't have this because you need that

and like the algorithm of what gets seen or who brings value and bullshit, bullshit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So why not just go and make a movie like how Cassavetes does use the, my grandpa always says use the weapons at hand. And so I'm so grateful that I have such a creative family that we could all come together and make something.

Yeah, I mean, it, your family is famously, I love this about your family, famously supportive of one another, very collaborative. A few things you said that really struck me, you talked about being not a great student. Yeah. I really relate to that. I definitely was someone who did not excel in academics.

I wasn't a great did not excel in academics. I wasn't a great test taker. Yeah. So much of when you're that age, when you're in your early teens and even before that, it's like your success is based on like the grades you get in school. Yeah.

And that, you know, if you're an A student or a B student, you're like that, you're on the right track. And if you're struggling, it means there's something wrong with you. Yeah. I know for me, I means there's something wrong with you. I know for me, I felt a lot of insecurity around that, and I lost a lot of my self-confidence, and it took a lot for me to regain that.

So it's always impressive to me when I hear from someone that they struggled in school, and yet they're so successful doing something that they're so good at. How did you overcome that? I feel like all of my trauma does sort of stem from like school and never feeling like good enough because I didn't get the grades. And I was really struggling because I remember, and it's a scene in Palo Alto where the college guidance counselor says like you're not going to go to college,

you don't have good grades. And so I think that bothered him and so he came up with a system that it's way easier to get into college if you go in as a transfer student in the second year. So if you go to community college, get your associate's degree, then you can transfer to college. And I got to transfer into Bard College, which was a school I wanted to go to. And then I was able to have Stephen Shore, who is a photographer I admire, be my teacher, who then helped me.

Thank you. Thank you. Ooh. It's delicious. If you want to try it. Okay. Thank you. Hi, Jessica.

You look beautiful. Oh. Nice to meet you. This is Jessica. Thank you so much. Have you ever been here? Yes. I love it here.

Stand here, Jessica, so this picks you up. Anyway. This is delicious. I'm so thrilled to be back. Yeah, this is the first time you've had it. I'm so happy. I've never had the salmon. You were telling me that I should get it with salmon. It's pretty new Oh, yes never had the toast so it's like that's that's we gotta go. It's you know squirrels healthy ish. It's not Healthy, but yeah, it's right there. Yeah, that's a good treat for a kid. I feel like they're getting I have some information

I'm excited about I learned just cuz You're opening up for dinner soon. We are. Ooh. We're opening, did you, is this, you're hearing it first right here. Yeah. Right.

Yeah, we're opening up for dinner in March. So yeah, we're opening a bar at the end of the building in 2026 and then, you know, then it'll be the whole package. I'm really proud of you. Resilience. True resilience and continued resilience during this time.

Yeah, yeah. I'm excited. Thanks for being here. Thanks, Chessica. Thanks for having us. Yeah. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Gia tells me about learning

about her late father, John Carlo Coppola, through his family. Napa summers with the Coppolas growing up, and her pandemic era meet-cute with her now husband, Honor Titus. Okay, be right back. This episode of Dinners on Me is brought to you by Nissan. These days, it feels like the world and our lives are moving at hyper speed. I mean,

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Conditions apply. Details at f phys.ca. And we're back with more Dinners on Me. Do you mind if I talk about your dad for a little bit? Sure. I know you lost your dad before you were born, like seven months before you were born. Your grandfather's side of the family, it seems that they really embraced you

and sort of filled that space of giving you information about who your father was. What is it like learning about your parents through the eyes of their other relatives? I always, you know, will have this missing part in my heart for not knowing what that was like. And I can't imagine like what my family went through to lose someone like that at such a young age.

And also, there is so much beauty in what I have to do is find the beauty of that. I'm so grateful that they've all embraced me so closely. And I have such a tight bond with my family because of this sort of loss and they all stepped in and helped raise me. My mom was only 20 when I was born. I was gonna say, your mother was also new to the family, right? Yeah, yeah. Right, yeah.

So he was 22 when you passed, but he had this like really full life. Like I hear stories of like he would have beer for breakfast and like loved cart. Like he had a very distinct personality that I'm like, oh, at 22, that's so rare. And I'm so grateful that like there's all this writing that my family have of that time and it's hard to read,

but it's also like what a privilege to kind of understand my father in this way and understand like my birth in this way. So I think, you know, that there's something different in that that not a lot of people get to kind of really experience in that way. Yeah. How is it, you're a new mom.

Mm-hmm. I mean, I felt so changed after becoming a parent. Is each kid like a new pancake where you're just trying to figure out? You think you know the recipe and they're like, oh no, I'm actually a waffle. Yeah. Just throw it in the chest.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But to be, you know, you and your husband are raising this child together, I mean, I just feel like becoming a parent, so much opens up and someone's just cracked open in you that you don't expect. Like, do you ever think about these moments in your life, like, oh, this person who gave me life

is missing out on such big moments. Yeah. Yeah, I do feel that loss, but I also believe that it's amazing when you think about like, oh, there's a piece of him in my child and things that maybe are so just natural. Like my family often says like,

oh, you have this expression that he used to do or like your mannerism was very much like that. And it's like, I never met him. How would I know to do those sorts of things? And that's sort of just the interesting part about genetics and to see that there's a piece of him and my son, I think is really cool. But man, parenthood, I can't believe almost everyone goes through this and it's so insane. That was so much of what this movie, like, I couldn't have told this movie

had I not become a parent. And I wasn't pregnant when I first embarked on this journey. And then I had my son and he was eight months when we were filming. And I was like, I couldn't have told this story had I not become a mother. Because it's like, opens up a part of you that is, you can do anything, like,

cause you have to. And I'm like, oh, there's such a strength in that. Yeah, so I don't know how you have three. That's amazing. Yeah, yeah, two, just two. Two, oh, okay. Please don't give me another one. People ask us if we're gonna have another one.

We're like, no, absolutely not. Yeah, yeah. Will you tell me a little bit about these, wait, first of all, did you grow up in Napa or LA? I grew up in LA, but I would go to Napa like every summer, every holiday. My mom, I was like seven years old and I'd put on the little like badge

and I'd just fly by myself to the Oakland airport and. Right? Yeah. It was a hot wheel. And yeah, I would just hang out with my grandparents and. Tell me about these One Act plays that would be done each summer. Well, I was young, so I would sort of just observe all the other family members kind of partaking it. It was only really one summer, but I think we were constantly always being creative together. I think that was something my grandparents really installed in all of us. They took Wannac plays and then either locals from Napa

were in them or the family members were in them and we had to direct them and they really performed them in front of an audience and they had the town come in. Oh my God. And I think to add to that was like, in children, like my grandfather is just always teaching us to be a child again and that and sort of creativity should be playful and enjoy it and fun. I mean, so much of being, I mean, under the umbrella of artists, but like an actor or

a director or a writer is about end product and like how successful is that end product. I mean, I've always struggled with like what the meaning of success is. Like I'm interested in like hearing what the definition of success is for you, but also through the lens of like having family members who have done things in their and done things very well in their field. Um, first of all, has it been intimidation? Was there ever intimidation for you to also follow in footsteps as you're forging your own path?

But also, what is success like for you? I feel like success, you have to take the external out of it. And it's an interesting question that I'm always sort of trying to understand is like, is it still art if it isn't seen? And my grandma, not to always just sort of revert back to like my family, but like my grandma would always do these sort of conceptual art films and kind of find art in all around us. I'm so grateful that I get to be creative, that I get to make stuff.

Like my grandma, I remember a bitch about like some job thing and she's like, you're so lucky that you get to work. Like it wasn't that long ago that women didn't even, they had to just be housewives. And you can still sort of see the, and so much of what this last show girl deals with is that kind of systemic lag for women and working mothers. And I found that interesting, but not to digress,

but success for me, I think, is that I get to be creative and my family is happy and healthy. I have a beautiful son that's so like, we go on a walk and every little thing is exciting. And it's like, it's just a puddle. But it's amazing. And I think if you can kind of keep that alive within yourself, then there's so much gratitude.

Yeah. I mean, I definitely try and align myself with that as much as possible. I forget sometimes I get caught up in like exterior and noise and what people think of, you know what I'm putting out there. It's hard. It's hard. Well, you think of like Van Gogh,

like he never knew what his success was. Yeah. So you just hope that your art gets to live beyond you, the planet still exists. Yeah. Your husband is an extremely talented painter. I'm a fan of his. Oh, thanks.

But how did you two meet? A blind date. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. My how did you two meet? A blind date. Oh really? Yeah, yeah. My friends, our mutual friends set us up. I mean, I think we kind of knew what each other looked like but not like much about each other. And it was during COVID and he took me to a restaurant

in Pasadena or I met him at a restaurant in Pasadena, or I met him at a restaurant in Pasadena, but it was because it was during COVID, it was just in a parking lot and he was really embarrassed that he thought we could go inside. But yeah, he was really sweet. He showed up holding flowers and... Um...

Um... Um... Um... Um... Um... Um... Um... Um... Yeah, I feel like it just kind of kept progressing. Like, I like nothing scares me more than like a date. I thought like, okay, what makes me relax?

Like playing a game, like maybe we can play like a card game because I love card games. It's like if he won the card game that I'm super skilled at, then we could get another date. And he of course won. And so it just like went on from there. That's a tricky time. I mean, I was deep into marriage during COVID, but I can only imagine that it must've been a tricky time

to also get to know someone. Well, we always say that like, it was kind of like Chihuahua years in a way. Like it just like made time really fast because you kind of get to know someone really fast. Yeah, you're right. So, you know, not too long after we have our son. Yeah.

I'm happy for you. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Well. I'm happy for you. Oh my gosh. Well, I congratulate you. It's so fantastic. I'm so excited to meet you. I've been a fan for a while and I just say I admire everything you've done. And thanks.

Thank you for lunch. Yeah. Yeah. It's yummy. It's on me. It's all on me. Dinner's on me. Add it to this list. This episode of Dinner's on Me was recorded at Squirrel in East Hollywood.

Next week on Dinner's on Me, she's a comedian that's been on your TV since 2007 with a long-running talk show on E, plus a documentary and talk show on Netflix. It's Chelsea Handler. We'll get into her latest book, I'll Have What She's Having, a memoir that the vulgar moments truly only Chelsea could experience, like playing pickleball with the Bush daughters, to Being Called Out by Jane Fonda for Being Difficult. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners on Me Plus.

As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad-free. Just click Try Free at the top of the Dinners on Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Dinners on Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson.

It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Angela Vang. Sam Baer engineered this episode. Hans-Dyl She composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tamika Balanz-Kolasny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.