Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - Heather Graham — on Young Fame, Rollergirl, and Becoming a Scream Queen

Episode Date: April 7, 2026

'Boogie Nights’ and ‘Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me’ star Heather Graham joined the show. Over Spanish mackerel and steak, Heather tells me about doing her first film at age 17 with ‘80s teen icons Corey Haim and Corey Feldman, being discouraged to star in Paul Thomas Anderson’s edgy cult classic ‘Boogie Nights,’ and her latest foray into the horror genre with her new action-packed film ‘They Will Kill You’ and a hotly anticipated new adaptation of Stephen King’s ‘Carrie.’ This episode was recorded at Le Pavillon in Midtown Manhattan, NY. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Spring break planning at our house is, it's definitely an adventure. Our kids have very strong opinions, and they're always on different sides of the spectrum. Beckett has very strong opinions about the ocean. It has to be a certain temperature, and the wind has to be blowing a certain way if he's going to get anywhere near it. He doesn't want sand on his feet. Sully, on the other hand, he will roll around in the sand and doesn't care about the water temperature, and he could be just sitting amongst seagulls and he's happy. Justin and I, we just want air conditioning and Wi-Fi, honestly.

Juggling all the details of a trip can be very stressful. And while I'm thinking about our plans, I also start thinking about our house while we're away. And it hits me. Maybe we could list our place on Airbnb while we're gone. It always sounds great, but I don't know if I can manage all the details myself. That's where Airbnb's co-host network comes in. You can hire a vetted local co-host to handle all the behind-the-scenes details. managing reservations,

guest communications, and even providing on-site support. So hosting feels manageable, even with everything else going on. So if you're traveling this spring, it might be the perfect time to list your space on Airbnb and maybe earn a little extra cash while you're gone to put toward that extra future travel,

someplace with air conditioning and Wi-Fi. If you're ready to host but could use a little extra help, find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. So right now I'm in New York. York City, I am doing a play about Truman Capote and it's basically a one-man show. It's just me for 90 minutes. I am basically eating, breathing, sleeping Truman Capote and this play. And I have very little time for myself, let alone time to cook for myself. That's why Home Chef has been a total lifesaver at this point in my life. They deliver fresh, pre-portioned ingredients straight to my door.

and the recipes are so easy to follow. Whatever kind of day you're having, Home Chef has you covered. From classic recipes with fresh ingredients and home 30-minute meals to oven-ready trays and quick microwavable lunches. There's even a dedicated family menu

for easy four to six serving dinners. And this is the most important part. They all taste amazing, like restaurant quality amazing. Home Chef has worked with chefs like Gordon Ramsey and now Giata de Lerintes bringing chef-inspired recipes right to your kitchen. Plus, it's affordable.

Home Chef customers save an average of $86 per month on groceries. For a limited time, Home Chef is offering my listeners 50% off and free shipping for your first box plus free dessert for life. Go to homechef.com slash D-O-M. That's homechef.com slash D-O-M for 50% off your first box and free dessert for life. must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert. Hey, it's Jesse. Today on the show, you know her from iconic movies like Boogie Nights, The Hangover.

She has a new film out called They Will Kill You. It's the iconic Heather Graham. Nobody thought I was like that pretty. So I got this job as like the popular pretty cheerleader. And then people were like, oh, like it came out right as I was graduating. And I think people were like, well, maybe we should have, like, paid attention to her. This is Dinner's on Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. So today we're at La Pavilion in Midtown Manhattan outside of Grand Central Station.

This is Daniel Ballude's seafood forward restaurant. I've been hearing about this place for years. I'm so excited to try it. Places like this always make me think that I've stumbled upon some little alcove where business deals are being made and negotiations are happening and people are, you know, whispering over really fancy seafood. And I thought this would be a great place to bring Heather Graham, who has been in this business a very long time, and I'm sure has lots of tidbits about the industry and wonderful stories to share with me. This is a beautiful setting to have a great conversation with a new friend.

I think she's coming shortly, so let's get to the conversation. So this was your suggestion. Yeah, it is, yeah. I've been here one time. On a romantic date. Yes. Yes. Hi. Hello. Hello. Hello. I'm going to live over you. Thank you. Who are you? Everything is good so far. Yes. So far, so good. Okay, so we have one, I mean, if we have any recommendations,

we have a few of the classic at the restaurant. We have the grilled avocado salad. Yeah. Gril avocado salad comes with airborne berries on the bottom. So with green joker, kale chips, and harisazas. Then we have, if you want to do something a little bit more light, we can do a nice Spanish macaron. Spanish macaro comes like a sashimi.

or a service style, served with a green papaya salad on the bottle, serve with a cucumber and mint vinegar, moly, and cram fresh. Wow. That's a nice. That's interesting. Yes, very, very, very, very tasty. And also, one of my favorite for this season is the red snapper, puyares. Steak, you never run with the steak.

We have a timbulin carrots, He had chivaling onions and big motions. Very good, actually. Sounds great. Oh, my gosh. I was sort of looking at the scallops, but now I feel like I might want steak. I know.

Well, if you want, you could get the scallops. I could get the steak, and we could split it. I would do that. Yeah, yeah. Okay. I like tasting. Let's do that. Yeah.

And do you want to start with something? Yeah, maybe. Okay, so the one that you were recommending, did you say the mackerel was what you were recommending? Yes, myrrill is great, man. That sounds so good. It sounds so. That sounds so good.

Thank you. Thanks so much. Anything. Cheers. Appreciate it. This is very romantic. Very romantic. I know.

I mean, it's so beautiful. All these plants they have in here, right? I know. It's gorgeous. You say you live in L.A. and New York. Yeah. And you, you lived a lot of your life in L.A., right? Yeah.

Well, my father was in the FBI, and I was born in Washington. I was born in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. He was working there. He's from Philadelphia. My mom's from New Jersey. Then we moved outside of Washington, D.C. to Virginia, and then we moved to L.A. when I was nine. So I'm pretty much from L.A. Okay.

Yeah. What was it like being in L.A.? Were you working as a nine-year-old? No. I wanted to be. Were you? No. Oh. Okay.

Not working. Where are you from? Albuquerque. Okay. I was doing theater. Okay. But like, you know, not being paid. Right, right.

No, I was doing like school plays. Yeah. I was like, I would live for the school play. Same. Like, I got to be in the school play. Yeah. I was a nerd who liked to be inside. I was a total nerd.

Like, I want to read books. I want to, like, watch movies. I want to be in a musical theater. I want to be in the play. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We would have been really good friends. So you were doing that. But you were in this, you were, like, right up against this industry that.

Yeah, my father was really religious, so he was kind of, like, wary of the entertainment business. So it took a lot of talking him into it to, you know, I had to pretty much be, like, 16. But then I started driving into the same. city and working on films. Yeah. And do you have siblings or are you an older child? I have a younger sister, yeah.

Okay. And is she an actress? She is in the business too, yeah, yeah, yeah. And what was your first, was your first big thing with Gus Van San? That was my second. It's funny because I just, my very first movie was called License to Drive with with Corey Hame and Corey Feldman. And I recently just saw Corey Feldman like two days ago.

It's funny. Yeah. But, uh, but, uh, had you seen him? No, I haven't seen him in a long time. but I just kind of ran into him. But no, it's funny because some people still remember that movie. It's wild, yeah. And you were, what, 17?

I was 17. I was 17. I was in high school, and it was huge for me. Like, that was a huge moment. Yeah. I got to, like, make money. Like, I was independent. I was like, I had a bank account, you know, and I could, like, live on my own.

It was amazing. What did, like, your friends of school think when you were? Because I imagine, like, in L.A., there were, like, a lot of people that were here. I was nerdy, like, kind of what you were describing. Yes. You know, I was, like, smart, and I was just, like, nobody thought I was, like, that pretty. So I got, this job as, like, the popular pretty cheerleader. And I had very bad style and bad hair and makeup.

Like, I did not know how to, like, you know, do that. And then people were like, oh, like, it came out right as I was graduating. And I think, like, people were like, oh, maybe we should have, like, paid attention to her, you know. Oh, my gosh, that's so pretty. That's gorgeous. I don't want to take a picture. You a little bit about the food, right now? Yes.

Wow, that is pretty, too. Spanish macro. Oh my God. Oh my God. Okay. Yeah. Cicumbar and minagreate. Finish with molly and cron fresh on it.

Oyster Vanderbilt. Oh. Oh, Underville is made with white chatter sauce. In the top, we have a beautiful butter made with seaweed, parsley, hazelnut, and breadcrumbs. The chip recommend eat the oyster with a spoon. Yes. Just be careful.

Okay. And then on the bread, we have a sourdough. We have parmesan. We have Parmesan garden, focacha, lavash, and a beautiful jumbo deer butter. Mm. Mm. Yes, thank you.

This is really pretty. It's gorgeous. That's really good. Is it? Mm-hmm. That bread, just cracker situation? Oh yeah, no, that bread is so good. But wait, I kind of feel like to try trying this.

Thank you. When you, so what, how did you get that first audition? Did you have someone working for you? Did you go to? Oh, you mean my first real audition? Like, for the first movie you did? Oh, yeah. Well, I used, I would go to acting classes in the city, so I would drive.

I finally got my driver's license. I convinced my parents to, like, let me go to acting classes in the city. So I was going to acting classes, and I convinced my acting teacher to introduce me to her agent. And then they represented me and sent me on audition. So, like, but the Gus Van San thing, and that, I mean, I know. That was after license to drive. Right. Okay.

And that was like you were 19? 18. 18? Wow. And at that point was Gus someone who had, that was like the beginning of his career. He done a small indie film. Most people haven't seen it. It's called Malinochet for like $20,000.

So that was his first movie, really. Wow. Yeah. You are promoting this new movie, which I'm really excited to see. Oh, yeah. We have to talk about that. Yeah. they will kill you.

Yeah. I was supposed to get a screener last night. Oh, that's cool. It's fun to watch with people. Because, you know, it was at South by Southwest. Yeah. It was great. Thank you.

Yeah, thank you. It's really fun to watch it with people. It's sort of like the movie that you would, like, it makes you, it's great in a theater because I watched it with, like, agents and managers, and then I went and watched it with these people at film festival. People were, like, screaming, and people were, like, clapping. People were like, ah, you know. I mean, in the trailer, like.

that I did watch. I mean, it's so gory in like a fun way. Yeah, no, it's funny. It's like, because I do get scared by horror movies, but it's not just like

the whole time, you know, totally disturbing. It's scary, but there's also a lot of humor and there's like a lot of action. So. I mean,

I could tell just from watching the trailer, but I mean, I was part of this movie Cocaine Bear, which should have this like, oh, that's how you know, Carrie Russell, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it, yeah, it has like this sort of like pulp, like, yeah, but also like this like Cullen Brothers kind of vibe. That's cool.

It's just a real fun mashup. And, you know, we went to Ireland to shoot Georgia. Yeah, because that movie was like a big hit, right? I think so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, we shot in Ireland as Georgia. And I know that you shot in South Africa. Yes, as New York.

Yeah, yeah. Which is crazy. But shooting New York in South Africa. It's because they built all the sets. Okay. Mm-hmm. The sets are really cool. Mm-hmm.

And it's about, it's about, like, a satanic cult that is in a, like, lives in, like, a high-end apartment building. It's kind of like, Kill Bill meets Get Out meets Rosemary's baby. Sold. If you like. Sold. You got real estate. You got bore. You got action.

Yeah. But it's, like, fun. There's a kind of stylized quality. My boyfriend also compared it to the Evil Dead, which I've actually never seen that movie. But that's, like, a classic. But there's a fun action. aspect that's stylized, so it's not just like, you know, someone's stabbing someone throughout the whole, you know, but it's like, it's fun.

Yeah. Yeah. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Heather tells me all about what it was like to work with now newly Oscar award winning director, Paul Thomas Anderson, on one of his first films, Boogie Nights. Where are my gloves? Come on, heat. Winter is hard, but your groceries don't have to be.

This winter, stay warm. Tap the banner to order your groceries online at voila.ca. Enjoy in-store prices without leaving your home. You'll find the same regular prices online as in-store. Many promotions are available both in-store and online, though some may vary. This episode is brought to you by Tell Us Online Security. Oh, tax season is the worst. You mean hack season?

Sorry, what? Yeah, cybercriminals love tax forms. But I've got Tellus Online Security. It helps protect against identity theft and financial fraud, so I can stress less during tax season, or any season. Plans start at just $12 a month. Learn more at tellus.com slash online security. No one can prevent all cybercrime or identity theft.

Conditions apply. And we're back with more dinners on me. And you're also, are you doing something with Carrie? Mm-hmm. That's coming out. You're kind of like a Miss Hora era right now. I know. For some reason.

This is not even like, yeah, I mean, I don't know how it happened, but I've suddenly gotten into a bunch of horror movies. And, yeah. And Kerry's going to be a limited series, is it? It's a series. I think they might actually try to, you know, go be a series. Yeah, they have like some plot points that could keep going. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, that's very good. Yeah, well, it's Mike Flanagan. He's really a cool, great, talented guy. He's really lovely. And he actually ended up, while I was working with him on Carrie, he bought the roller skates from Boogie Nights at this prop auction. Yeah. He called me and he sent me the photo.

He's like, are these real? And then he bought like an outfit that I was wearing, you know, and like this necklace. He's like, it's all this stuff real? Because he's like, I'm about to buy it from this crop auction. Are you serious? So now he owns it his house. Yeah, yeah.

He owns your world. Well, there were two pair. Like, there was a pair that the movie company kept, and then there was a pair they gave to me. So the pair that I had, I ended up giving it to the Academy Museum. Uh-huh. So, so yeah. And then he bought the one that the movie company had that they were like auctioning.

Oh, my God. Isn't that funny? I love that. I know. He texted me one day. He's like, are these your roller skates? Because I'm about to, like, buy them. That is incredible.

No, but he has, like, rooms in his house with props from all these movies. Like, he has so many cool movie props. He's just a collector. He's just, like, he loves movies and TV, and he just, like, remembers every shot. And he's, like, a huge fan. Yeah. I mean, he's so great. I mean, I look at your career, though, and, like, Gus Fan San, Paul Thomas Anderson.

Yeah, yeah. You have, like, this list of people that I'm just, like, are my dream directors. I know. It's been lucky, yeah. Do you ever look back and, like, take stock of this incredible career? I mean, it's funny because sometimes I'll sign autographs, and then people have these pictures from the different things you do. And it's just, it almost feels like it's another lifetime ago, but it's you, so you know that it's you, but you're like, wow, you know,

because when I was in Twin Peaks, I was like 21. So it's wild to think of that, you know? Yeah, yeah. No, it is really lucky. It's very lucky. Yeah. Yeah, but I mean, I could say that of you, too. You know, I mean, it's very lucky to get into something that people are still,

people still watch. No, for sure. Like, I'm doing this play right now, and people are sending photographs of, like, things I have done, you know. That's so nice. 20 years ago for me to sign. It is, yeah, it's wonderful that your work that impacts people. It's so nice that people, like, you do something in someone that still watches it

or still knows it, you know, however many years later. It's really cool. I mean, I have to say, Boogie Nights, I mean, Paul Thomas Anderson for me is just, I know he's amazing. I'm so thrilled that he has an Oscar now for directing. I know. I know. It's really cool. You know, he's been nominated so many times.

I know. But that movie is so special. You were so wonderful in it. Thank you. I mean, it's such, it had such a impact on me. It's just like an actor and like is someone who loves film. I mean, it really was a seminal movie for me. Wow.

Also, because I felt like at the moment, I was, you know, I was younger when it, we're close to the same age. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. new shot, it was how old I was when I was when I was when he directed it, which is kind

of wild, right? Like, that's very young. But, you know, a movie about the 70s porn industry. It's like, I just, I was like... At that time, people were not making those kinds of things. I mean, nowadays, people would be like, oh, yeah, sure, and they would not judge it. But at that time, it was kind of on the border of like, oh, maybe you shouldn't be doing that. That's, like, creepy. It definitely felt risky. Yeah, it was risky. And in fact, I remember going on, like, do you remember that show? It was like Dr. Drew and Adam Carolla. And I remember him giving me a really hard time like that's going to be a terrible idea and like you know he was basically saying like you know it sounds really like um whatever exploited ever whatever you know right yeah and then later

he apologized no i mean it was not man yeah he was wrong yeah totally but i think now people are more open-minded about like what we're watching but at that time it was like oh you can't do that you know it's such a testament to like great filmmakers because you could take any subject and i mean obviously the script needs to be wonderful but like he did it with such care Yeah. That movie was so beautifully written and shots. I mean, I still think about that scene with you and Julianne Moore when you're asking her to call you, she's like, can I please call you mom? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I need to believe it when I, when you, and she says, okay, I can do that for you. It's such a gorgeous scene. Oh, my God. Oh, you're bringing this is like three courses or? That is exciting. Wait, should be telling me? It's so dirty. Okay, I have to dorcasishly.

You're going to light it on fire or something, right? Absolutely. This is the sea scallops. We have a lemon juice. Here we make a little bit of aroma. Wow. Okay. We have a frica, really sauce.

We have a pickled bikino peppers and almond remol. This is so decadent. That is really pretty. Gorgeous. Okay. I love that we're trying both. It's so fun, right? Yeah.

Wait, what is this thing on the top? Just caramelized lemon. Oh, that's cool. It's so pretty. Please enjoy. Thank you. Thank you. Wow, it's gorgeous.

It's really, like, artistic. But I want all your restaurant recommendations, too. I will. I'll give them to you. The beginning of your crew is definitely, like, you know, you played a stripper, you played a porn star, you played a drug addict. You know, you had like these kind of, these very, like, you know, like, you played a stripper. like characters that could have been perceived as like, sort of like easily labeled, I would say.

And what I've always been struck by your work is that you have brought such depth and humanity to all these different people. That's very awesome of you to say that. Well, I mean, part of it said this scripts are so great too. Yeah, for sure. You have done, I mean, if you like just sort of like listed what these characters are, I think, you know, people would be like, oh, yeah, these are the careers that, Like, someone does, these are the rules that someone does at the beginning of their acting career. But, like, if you, like, really look at what these movies and these roles were, like, there was such depth and humanity to all these people.

And, you know, what I also love is that, you know, in the midpoint of your career, like, you just started, like, writing your own material and directing. What was that shift for you to, obviously, you know, it's like, I'm in this place with my career where it's like, if you don't make things happen yourself, like they just start. don't happen. And I certainly understand that. Like, I understand the hustle and, like, needing to, like, you have an idea. You have to, like, do it yourself. You can't wait for someone else to help you out. Yeah. But it's also scary, I find, to, like, take that leap. But, I mean, what was it, like, for you to kind of just, I mean, what was the impetus for you to really start creating your own work? Well, it's like what you said, basically, you know, there's not as many projects I feel like, happening with female protagonists. I mean, there are some, but I wanted to be telling stories

that were about things that I cared about with a female protagonist and put myself in them so I wasn't trying to get someone else to hire me. And just, I like the process, you know, just the process of like developing something, writing something. I mean, finding the money is like challenging, you know, forces you to be like a business person that you're not really, wasn't really my, like, intention, but it's interesting to learn about. But, like, you know, learning how to shoot things and figuring out how to, it's fun the acting part and casting other actors and working with actors. That's really fun.

But, like, the post-production, it's just, it's cool to learn about all that stuff, you know? And I get, my goal is to start a production company that I'm working on that and just, like, kind of like a Hello Sunshine or, like, a lucky chap or just making sort of stories that are, like, from a female perspective. And I have an idea for a cooking show, too. Yeah. That, I don't know. I'm inspired by people.

you doing cool stuff like this where you know something that celebrates just like food and like women like kind of the conversation is what you're saying about like when you have great food with someone you can get into like a really cool intimate conversation and really kind of connect and bond and talk about I think in my show like talk about like sex and stuff like that yeah yeah yeah do you ever feel because I have certainly felt having done a role for 11 years um on a sitcom there's a great deal of counter programming that has to happen if I want to move forward artistically in my career. Well, maybe the problem being that you're such a hit, you're in such a hit and people

think of you in that way because you're such a huge hit. Sure. I mean, again, if you do one thing for like 11 years, like that's, I mean, of course you're in people's living rooms, that's what they're going to see you doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, when you were at the beginning of your career, did you feel like there was a bit of counter programming you had to do in order for people to not see you a certain way. I mean, well, it's kind of confusing as a woman to be like, because on one hand you're like,

okay, well, I want to play like a leading lady or sexy, but then you don't want to be too sexy. And it's like, well, how sexy is too sexy and how sexy is not sexy enough, you know? And it's like, that's hard to navigate as a woman sometimes, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Which I think is kind of sexism, you know, because I don't think men really kind of deal with that, you know?

Agreed. Yeah. Yeah. But the culture, I think, yeah, I just think as a woman growing up, there weren't a lot of examples of like female directors and writers. I mean, there's a few, but it's great that there's more now. But I just think, you know, how we consume media, it affects how we think about life and affects how we think about ourselves. So I think it's good for women and girls growing up to see more, you know, things that help them feel like, well, they can achieve their dreams or what they think matters. Because I think if you're always seeing yourself as like a supporting character, you don't feel like what you, what you,

what you want matters as much. You're kind of like there in service to someone else. So that's why I think it is important that women can watch things where like women are the heroes and women are the protagonists or women are the anti-heroes or women can be complicated and screwed up. Because that character is very common for men in movies. You know, like that Jack Nicholson character who's like, he's bad, but he's good, you know, but it's not as common for women, you know? Right.

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we return, Heather tells me about how her upbringing led her to become the fiercely independent woman she is today, and why her friends have compared her to Martha Stewart. Okay, be right back. When West Jet first took flight in 1996, the vibes were a bit different. People thought denim on denim was peak fashion, inline skates were everywhere, and two out of three women rocked, the Rachel. While those things stayed in the 90s, one thing that hasn't is that fuzzy feeling you get

when WestJet welcomes you on board. Here's to WestJetting since 96. Travel back in time with us and actually travel with us at WestJet.com slash 30 years. And we're back with more dinners on me. You seem to me, because I don't know you that well, but someone who's been very independent their entire life, or at least fought for independence, and then once you had it, really held on to that.

I know, I know. No, I'm very independent. Independent, very protective of, you know, what you want to do and, like, the artistic vision. I know. It's probably because when I grew up, my father was really controlling, and he would be like,

when you're at my house, to do what I say. And I remember thinking, I'm never going to have somebody to say that to me again. Do you know what I? So then I'm like, I'm going to own two houses and I'm going to like,

I'm going to do whatever I want. You know what I mean? So, it's good. I mean, and you could be like, we don't need to talk about this, but I know that you've spoken about, you know, how you, with Harvey Weinstein, right, right, right, right.

How you feel like you were, and again, you could be like, we don't need to talk about it. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, I know, you've talked about how you feel like you were blacklisted for a little while because of well not by the whole business but by him yeah yeah yeah yeah and you know just that idea that someone could have jurisdiction over your career even in like their circles yeah yeah yeah after all the

hard work that you've put into your career is mind blown to me um first of all i'm so sorry that that happened to you have you found um comfort and um other people who have had those similar stories. I know so many people, so many of my friends who have... Well, I mean, that moment in time was such... As a woman, it was a very cool moment where so many women were coming forward with stories because it feels like...

I mean, I'm sure I wasn't the first woman in the history of life to have stuff like that happen. I just think this has happened to women through the centuries. And a lot of times, just like, no one ever gets to complain about it, nothing ever gets done about it. So I think at least people started talking about it,

which I think is amazing. And it's cool, like he ended up in jail. I mean, that was like the most satisfying news that I feel like I ever read, because sometimes it feels like rich and powerful people get away with things. And when they don't, it's so satisfying to see justice being served. So I think it was a great moment in that a lot of people came forward with, like, sexual abuse stories and that people felt empowered. And I think a lot of things about, like, I mean, luckily, like, I don't know, nothing happened with me in terms of, like, physically, you know, being attacked or anything. But, um, but I just, you know, I just, you know,

I just think it's, I think our culture could evolve the past the point of feeling like, you know, victims of sexual abuse or survivors or can talk about it, you know, because I think that's how people deal with the consequences of their actions. Instead of just like, you know, acting like, oh, I should feel bad about myself because this person's like horrible, you know? So I think it's, it's really good that more people are feeling empowered to speak out about stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, do you feel like it's. things are getting better and the consequences are being, I personally feel like I see more

consequences. Right. I still think, you know, there's probably so many things that happen behind. No, I think the really horrible abusive people are probably still doing it and getting away with it. There are still people. Obviously, we both could think of people that are still doing it and getting away with it. But I do feel like the conversation has been open. So now more people are open to talking about it. Whereas I think in the past, you had to be like super ballsy to even bring it up at all, you know? Right. Right. Yeah.

What do you think? I mean, I, you know, I'm not a woman in this industry. I feel like it's really worse for... No, it's sad because there, I mean, all these things people have talked about, but like, oh, well, it's your fault if you got into this awkward situation in the wrong moment. Or, you know, just make sure you never get in that situation. Or, like, you know, how do you, like, turn down somebody without hurting their feelings to the point where they never want to work with you? You know what I mean?

Yeah, and I could certainly relate to that. I mean, I remember, like, early dating in New York. Like, I remember being with people that I was like, oh, I just want to make them feel bad. And, like, and the consequences weren't quite as big because they weren't, like, Hollywood most, you know, taste makers or, like, directors or producers. But, like, you know, it was just someone that I didn't want to hurt their feelings. And I did things with them that I didn't want to do because I don't want to, like, make the situation awkward. I feel like it's, like, a people pleaser element, which I definitely had growing up and I'm working very hard not to. But, yeah, I think that's what you're both.

It's easier with age, though, right? Yeah, you're just like, okay, why do I have to make this person comfortable? Yeah, why am I pleasing this person that I don't even care about? Yeah. Right, but I personally still find myself slipping into that sometimes. Yeah. And I have to remind myself that I'm a 50-year-old man, and I don't need to do that anymore. And is that working?

Sometimes. Sometimes it does. Oh, my God. I have to take another picture. That's so pretty. We have a cower on the bottom. We have a pimble in a caroling of carol. but onions,

cherrips, finish it with rotisserie sauce. That's really pretty. Is this part of the mushroom? Wait, this is... No, I think it's meat. It's like short red.

It's so good. That's great. Oh my God. I love that you're such a foodie. Do you, I mean, would you ever... Do you cook? I have dinner parties a lot. Do you?

You should come over. I accept the invitation. Do you find cooking to be peaceful? Do you stress out about it? I mean, I kind of feel like it's a means to an end. I mean, there's aspects I like, but sometimes I'm like, it feels loving and nurturing both to myself and to other people to just like, I'm going to make you something to eat from scratch.

And that's my way of saying like, I love you or like, I want to have you around. I want to enjoy food with you. I mean, I have this group of girlfriends and they come over and two of my friends are vegan, so I make a lot of vegan food for them. But I have dinner parties with like 14 people and I make food, you know. That's delicious. Yeah. Yeah.

I think I'm good. You know, I mean, I'm not going to open my own restaurant and cook for like 50 people, but I think I'm good enough to make a good dinner party. People are coming over to your house knowing your, you know. All my friends are like, you should have a cooking show. Like, you know, someone even compared me to like Martha Stewart, which is not true because I don't have, like, place settings and stuff. But I make a lot of food.

Like I try to make everything from scratch. Like I'll make, like, pickle done. onions. I'll make like a tahini sauce and I'll make like, you know, meat for the people that eat meat. And then I'll make vegan food for the people who want vegan food, you know? And I just want it to be fresh and just like healthy and tasty, you know? Yeah, yeah. I do think it's meditative. But sometimes it's a lot of work, like chopping, chopping.

But like I'll do something else. That's the part that I find is so meditative, like the Mizant Place, putting everything together. Like that's the part I really like zone out. I, um. If I can do, I like to like listen to a book or listen to something and then and cook at the same time. Same. You know, yeah. Yeah.

For a while, and I need to get back into it, but I was doing transatlental meditation. Oh, I do that. Do you? Okay. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's so good. I went to the David Lynch Foundation in, um, in L.A.

He's the one who told me to do it. Did he? Okay. Interesting. So he, like, when you were doing Twin Peaks, he talked to you about it. So he was already, like, deep into meditation. Yeah. He was doing it every day at lunch.

He was like, you should do this. He introduced me to his friend who's a meditation teacher. I'm still friends with her now. Yeah, I really loved it. And I was really... And you feel like it helped you and changed your life? Yes. Yeah.

It did, and I have not kept up with it. So do you do it every day? I'm, like, very disciplined, yeah. Two times a day? I mean, have I done it... I started when I was 21. Have I done it every single day? No.

But have I done it probably, like, 90% of the time? Yes. That's incredible. Isn't that cool? Yeah. You're supposed to do it, so do you do it like 20 minutes in the morning and then 20 minutes in the afternoon? I mean, sometimes I cheat and do it 40 minutes in the morning, just because I'm, like, not a morning person, so it helps me wake up.

But I sometimes split it up. See, my problem with the morning one was, like, I feel like I just woke up, and then I have to, like, close my eyes for 20 minutes. And, like, I was like, my mind would already start racing about what I had to do in the day. I guess this is probably why I need meditation. So for me, I'm like, I don't want to wake up. I'm still tired. I'm going to meditate.

Yeah. Oh, my God. Sophia Vergara was doing it. She signed up for TM. Mm, cute. And it wasn't working for it. I don't think she's, I don't think she's. I don't think she's wired for it.

But she told me that they gave her the wrong mantra. She's like, they gave me the wrong word to say. It does not work for me. I don't think that's how it works. I think like you just need to go with it. Oh my God. That is so funny. She's like, no, it does not work for me.

They gave me the wrong one. They messed it up. Oh, my God. I love your impersonation. I can like picture her. Oh, my God. It was so funny. Who are the people that you're most connected to in your life?

I mean, are they your friends? Is it someone you're dating? I mean, I know that you're, are you in your sister clothes? I'm not. Close with my family. Yeah, I'm estranged for my family. So I've sort of, that's why, I mean, I made this movie called Chosen Family. And I feel like my friends are my family, you know?

So I am very lucky. I have amazing friends. Like, my friends are just mind-blowing, like, incredible. And I do have a boyfriend. And, yeah, I have a lot of really good friends. That's great. Yeah, yeah. Am I one now?

You can be. Yeah, no, I would love to. I mean, I would love for you to, like, cook for me. and I totally come over to my house for dinner. Are you going to be in New York or what's your plan? You're here doing the play. I'm here until mid-May. Okay.

I'm sad I missed this play where you were like the reservations guy at a restaurant. Because I feel like that sounds hilarious. It was very funny. Was that incredible? Yes, and exhausting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So much so that after I was done, I was like, I don't think I'll ever do another one-man show again.

And then the show I'm doing right now, that's a one-man show. Oh, my God. is so cool. But I mean, you're so, like, successful. Like, couldn't you just write your own TV show and just do, I mean... Is it not? No, I know, I know. I know.

So you write, though. Yeah, yeah, but you could write your own TV show character for yourself. And, like... I have ideas. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I have ideas. Do you, but you did direct, right? I did direct... I directed... Did you direct... Is it? I directed Chosen Family? I directed Chosen Family. I directed a movie

called Half Magic and I wrote them and it was fun. It was a labor of love. I mean, we did not have a lot of money in the budget, but it does kind of bite you. You're like, I want to do that again. I definitely want to do it again. It's kind of like being a drug addict. You're like, oh my God, it's so hard. It's so painful, but I want to do it again, you know? Like, it's so awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's something I'm... I bet you'd be a really good director. I think I would too, actually. It would, yeah. Don't you ever feel like those days that you show up on set and you're like,

it's like a really complicated scene. Yeah. And you're like, well, at least someone have to direct it. Like I could just like be told where to go. Oh my God, it's so true. Being the director, it's so much more stressful because, you know, all the stress of like everyone's input and who gets cast and like how you get the money

and then, you know, how you're going to edit it and every moment of the way. It's depending, maybe you're in a great situation with great financiers and you don't have stress. I don't know, but. No. If you show up as an actor, you're like, here's my job. And they always treat actors a little bit like little kids.

Like, you're so great, you're great, okay? And then the director's more like gets the not that, not that treatment. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you feel like directing, like, pull the curtain back for you a little bit, like, a little bit in terms of like what happens on the, like, I mean, having been on the other side of the camera for so long? Yeah, I mean, it's like, it's really sad when you find out how people are cast, you know? I know. It's really, it's not like, oh my God, this person is just the best person or they're right for the role or, no. No, it's not. It's usually like someone with money decides that they're worth something.

And sometimes it's super random. They're like, oh, that person's worth nothing. Oh, that you know, it's like some random person is deciding who's worth something. Right. Or they put you in a computer and the numbers come up with like a certain thing. I have heard that. I've also heard and this hasn't, I haven't experienced this on any of the projects that I've been trying to get started. But like we're like things like Instagram followers are in the conversation. I mean, that's starting to happen that sometimes people are getting cast because they have Instagram followers and they're not even actors. And they don't even know really how to act. And it's just like, look at all these millions of followers and they're just casting them.

It's wild. Isn't that wild? It's really wild. There's, and she might be incredibly talented. I have not seen her. And I actually think she is an actress and a musical directorist. But the woman who's in Chicago right now on Broadway, she is an influencer? No, she was...

Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. She's a reality show. And I do think she was... And I don't want to just countertile because I think she's actually like a legitimate, like, performer. She's a dancer. But, so Chicago's been running on Broadway for like 3,000 years.

Oh, I know. I know. They have... With her in the show... Yeah. It's broken box office records for all time for the entire time. It's never made more money. Why? Because...

She has a great social media following. Wow. And again, like, I'm not discounting her talent at all, but what it does scare me is that... It's free marketing. It's like, this person, yeah. But it scares me that, like, that's, like, it's going to require, like, that type of person now to, like,

I know it's hard because, like, yeah, because we came up, like, oh, just be really good at your job, be a really good actor. Now it's like, oh, you need, like, to do your social media, yeah. Right, right. And I do feel like, I don't know if you feel this way, but kind of, like, taking a bunch of pictures of myself sometimes. I'm just like, this seems...

It's funny, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you so much for doing this. No, thank you. No, I'm a fan. I'm grateful to be to hang out with you and go to this awesome restaurant. This episode of Dinners on Me was recorded at La Pavilion and Midtown Manhattan. Next week on Dinner's On Me, you know him from roles like Blaine Anderson on Glee

and from his Emmy winning and Golden Globe Award winning turn as Andrew Kinnonan and the assassination of Gianni Versace. It's Darren Chris. We'll get into his journey from Thurne. theater kid to award-winning performer. He's a Tony Award winner for maybe happy ending on Broadway and how he reflects on a career that just keeps hitting new highs. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners On Me Plus. As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, they'll also be able to listen completely ad free. Just click try free at the top of the

Dinners On Me show page on Apple Podcasts. This is Sart Your Free Trial today. Dinner's On Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcalf. Sam Bear engineered this episode.

Hans Dale She composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tamika Balance Kalasney and Justin McKita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week. Hey, y'all. I'm Maddie. And I'm Poodle. And together, we host the podcast Reality Gays.

We are two ridiculous homosexuals who love nothing more than talking about reality television and tearing in a new one. So whether it's 90-day fiancé, love is blind, love after lockup, or any other trash TV show about lonely hearts looking for love, your gay besties got you covered, y'all. New shows every week. Follow and listen to Reality Gays wherever you get your podcast. Let's love. Oh.