Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - Iggy Azalea

Episode Date: July 23, 2024

Australian musician and entrepreneur Iggy Azalea joins the show. Over pasta, Iggy tells me about her decision to step away from music, her success in crypto with her coin $MOTHER and her advice for young people out there who might feel like outsiders or misunderstood. This episode was recorded at Sartiano’s at The Mercer in Soho, NYC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This summer I took a little break that me and Justin had in our schedule to do a little two-week summer vacation We grabbed Beckett and Sully and we introduced them to some of our favorite spots Provincetown in Massachusetts and we also jumped across the pond to London while we were away. I had this thought What if we hosted our home on Airbnb? We all have times when we're away from home whether we're visiting family or traveling for work or maybe taking that well-earned vacation. While you're away you could be earning some extra cash. You can host your entire home or if let's say your kid is away at college, which seems so far away since my boys are still just so young, but for you empty nesters you could just host a

spare bedroom. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.com slash host. This is an advertisement from BetterHelp. Everyone knows therapy is great for solving problems, but turns out therapy has some issues of its own. Finding the right therapist, fitting into their schedule, and of course, the cost. BetterHelp can help solve these problems. It's online, convenient, built around your schedule,

and surprisingly affordable too. Connect with a credentialed therapist by phone, video, or online chat. Visit betterhelp.com to learn more. That's better, H-E-L-P dot com. Hi, it's Jesse. Today on the show, you might know her as the rapper from Australia with hit songs like Fancy and Black Widow,

or you might know her from her recent foray into crypto with her new coin, Mother. It's Iggy Azalea. I don't know what it is about me, but my whole life, whatever it is that everyone else is doing, I don't want to do it. This is Dinners on Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson.

If you told me that one day I would be casually having a one-on-one meal with Iggy Azalea, I never would have believed you. I know, I know. On paper, we seem like such an odd couple. Now, of course I knew her music. Her hits like Black Widow and Fancy are such a part of this generation, they're impossible to escape.

But once I started researching her, I realized, first of all, I knew way more of her music than I thought I did. And also I learned that being a world renowned musician is just scratching the surface of who Iggy is. I also discovered I have a lot more in common with her than I ever thought. One of the joys of this podcast is that I get to meet so many incredible people who I probably never would have gotten to know otherwise. And when I meet a

kindred spirit like Iggy, it makes it all the more gratifying. Hi! Nice meeting you. Thanks for having me. I'm such a fan of your ever. Nice to meet you. I'm so glad we're meeting you. I brought Iggy to the newly opened Sartiano's, tucked away in the heart of the Mercer Hotel in Soho. It's owned by renowned restaurateur Michael Sartiano and inspired by his Italian roots. Let me tell you, this place is glamorous.

Plush gold booths, white tablecloths, soft moody lighting. I mean, they threw the Met Gala after party here, if you need proof of its chic reputation. The kitchen is led by three-time James Beard award-winning chef Alfred Portale, a master of contemporary Italian cuisine. The food is so good, in fact, that Iggy dined there the night before and during our meal she ordered the same thing and then some Okay, let's get to the conversation I am starving. I haven't eaten all day today. The only thing I've had is a cup of tea. Oh my god. I've been back-to-back in I'm gonna do a chopped salad

Wow, you're a lot better than me because I am not gonna do that. I will do... Meatball parm sounds good too. I was looking at that too. It looks amazing. Hi, how's it going? Good, thank you. And how are you?

Good, I'm good. Could we please get the focaccia, the bread, and then could I get the... Sorry, I ordered a pasta last night but I don't remember what it was. The spaghetti pomodoro. We have the spaghetti arugato. If you like a little spice, it's the same but a little spicy. How much out of more spicier? I think you'll be good if you like spice.

But it's maybe like a five. Out of ten? That's what that's supposed to be. We can always have the other one as a backup. Yeah, we can do the pomodoro if you prefer. Can I just get both? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, just to be sure.

Just to be sure. And could I please have a lemonade? Thank you. Yes, my favorite. I want a lemonade too. And a chopped salad please. Sure. How spicy is a chopped salad?

Add it all. Okay. Yeah, good thing. Let me take your huge menu. Thank you, thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Oh, my Thank you, thank you.

Oh, my earring. My earring. It fell off. Did you hear it? Oh, that's hilarious. Hilarious, okay. I just, first of all, you're doing so many things. Like I was on my way here and I started following your telegram.

It's chaotic. And I was like, oh my God, there's new things to talk about since I last so much to talk about. Every hour. Every hour, literally, there's a new huge thing you're doing. Yeah, it's chaos. It's crazy, it is in the best way. It's fun, my Telegram is so fun.

I don't really know a lot about Telegram, it's basically just like a... It's kind of like the way I think about it is almost like an MSN or an old AOL chat, like that's the vibes, right? Yeah, exactly, totally, totally. That's the vibes, right? Yeah, exactly, totally, totally. It's just people in there chatting.

You can do voice and stuff, but mine's turned off so that it's, I'm the only one allowed to talk. That sounds like a dictatorship. But it's just easier than everything. But people can comment, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, no. We talk and chat back and forth with text and gifs and stuff, but I'm the only one that puts voice into it. Right, right, yeah, no, people, we talk and chat like back and forth with text and gifts and stuff, but I'm the only one that puts voice into it.

Right, right, right. And the whole point of having that access to your fans is because of all this new stuff that you're doing, which I wanna talk about, it's a fast name, with the cryptocurrency, which I know nothing about. Like I want you to give me like a crypto 101 for like an eight year old. Okay, I'll try my best.

I have been trying to, honestly it is hard to break it down, but I've been trying my best, because a lot of my friends are like, what is this? And my mom as well was like, what? And I tried to explain it to her. She kind of didn't get it, and then two days ago she was like,

I wanna buy all in on Mother. I'm all in. And Mother is the name of your crypto. Ticker. Okay, now explain that to me. What is the ticker? Yeah. So the ticker is basically the name

of the coin that's minted. Got it. Crypto is so like, I mean not all of it, but I think Solana is kind of like the fun blockchain where the cool kids are, in my opinion. Okay, what's Solana? Solana is a blockchain. I just took on your Australian accent for a moment.

It's okay. Solana. Solana. Solana. All my Aussie friends put R's on the end of the words. Oh no, you go on an Australian accent, oh no. You could mint other tokens or projects that would then be on that chain. Does that make sense?

Somewhat. And then Solana is its own separate chain and its currency is Sol. And so I, or anyone can mint coins on that. And then my, you would be trading Sol to buy whatever the token is that you want. Right. And so your ticker and your ticker is called Mother. Mother, yeah. With a dollar sign or something.

A ticker always starts with a dollar sign. So it's not smother. No. But it is convenient. Yeah, I know, it is convenient. I wouldn't be mad if you got it wrong. It is not smother, but I am smothering everyone though. Doesn't a mother always smother?

I think so, yeah. Why did you call it mother? Multiple reasons. One, because I want, I think the best brands are always things that are true to the person, their genuine identity, and I'm a mother. Yes. I like mother because I am one,

but also because within pop culture, there are so many interesting interpretations of motherhood. Yes, I mean, did you watch the Maya Rudolph SNL? I could go on and on, actually. Actually it's funny because I have this other sub-telegram where people join and they just put in memes and sometimes they superimpose my face

on different skits and stuff and that was one of them. Of course, yeah. Yeah, so yes. Yes, yes. Mother of Dragons, Game of Thrones, we've had a lot of fun with that and memeing that in regards to this. There are just so many deranged.

You could go full Hitchcock with Mother. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There are a million Mothers, good, bad, ugly, in between, mean girls. I'm a cool mom. Evil stepmother, yes. Exactly, I'm a cool mom. Like, exactly, we could, mother is always a prevalent character throughout entertainment.

Stifler's mom, so when I'm thinking about something that pertains to me and then that, you know, within pop culture already has a lot of content that has virality, I think mother is a really good topic. It's in proximity to every single one of us in some way or another. We have a relationship. And we have an opinion about it. Our moms are crazy or whatever.

I'm a crazy, pretty chaotic person if you haven't noticed. I'm like, I am that mother. I am the crazy, wacky mom. It just made sense to me. It seems like it's something that you are artistically invested in too. Yeah, because it's so fun. I love doing disruptive stuff and I just think meme coins, when it comes to crypto, that's more,

I feel the pop culture side of things, if that makes sense, where they're like, we're here for entertainment, fun, chaos, and community and these things. And so meme coins, I think right now, are at the forefront of engaging with that. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Iggy tells me about why she finally said goodbye to music, her year

on OnlyFans, and why mixing your passion with your career can get complicated. Okay, be right back. Don't you just love it when someone looks at you and says, hmm something's different about you. What were you up to last night? Well no matter how late you were up the night before, Lumify Redness Reliever Eye Drops can help your eyes look more refreshed and awake than ever. Lumify dramatically reduces redness in just one minute to help your eyes look brighter

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kind of like things that are on the cutting edge, like OnlyFans and meme coins. I just, I think it's so incredible that you kind of waded into these waters that no one else has really proven success in. And yet you have gone in with incredible success. I put my boots on and I get to work. You do, well that's just it.

I think that's what so, that impresses me about not only your career. I mean, I assume you're always gonna have music as part of your career, but like- I mean, honestly, no. I stopped making it a year ago, actually. I made the choice to not, but that's because I wanted to focus more on these things.

Like I love music, but there's only so much time in a day. But you're also like, you're about true. But you're so, what I wanna say is that you're so like 100% in when you do something. Oh, I'm 100% in, yeah, yeah, exactly. And that's really, I mean, it's remarkable. I had a musical career for 12 years, and it was very fun, and I think it was very fruitful,

and I did everything that I wanted to do with that. I achieved all I wanted to achieve with it. Just take the whole bread. Oh, I am, I am. I'm only splitting it up so I can put that on it more. Yeah. It is so good. I ate this at three o'clock in the morning last night,

and it was, it smacked, let me tell you. It was so good. Sm ate this at three o'clock in the morning last night and it was, it was, it smacked, let me tell you. It was so good. It smacked. Where's the butter? I need this butter way closer. Well, I do too, but I just want a little taste without and then, you know, I get in, I get out, I get in, I get out.

But, you know, I don't know, for me, like, even with music, the thing about music beyond making music Of course that interests me is just like to be a first mover in a space and When you've been doing the space for 12 years, you're not really a first mover anymore. Are you? You're just in it so I just felt like I've taken it where I wanted to take it and I want to find something else to Dabble in and I'd love to be able to develop something of my own. And so I started on with down this path,

developing this company called Dream Vault. And getting with VCs, raising funds, and developing the idea. It's been like about a year in the making with that. So Dream Vault's something that I just found out about today as I was reading, which is. It's not immaculate by the way, so. It's pretty incredible, yeah.

Oh my God. I mean, so how I was sort of interpreting it is sort of like in the way that maybe you would think of crowdfunding or like. Yeah, it's crowdfunding and gifting essentially. It's sort of like a chance to soft pitch, I'd say, like to your friends, community. If you're a creator, it could be that, you know,

hey, I have this amazing idea for a script that I want to make happen. This is my pitch, and I have a chance to explain what it is that is my project. I'm gonna, maybe you want to crowdfund for that, or maybe you don't want to crowdfund at all, and you just want to get some equipment for that, or you want to add costuming or lighting, maybe you don't want to crowdfund at all and you just want to get some equipment for that,

or you want to add costuming or lighting or whatever it is that's in relation to this dream. Different from like GoFundMe. GoFundMe. The thing with GoFundMe that I hate is it has no social element to it. There's no time spent on platform. And for me, that was something that I wanted to resolve. And then also the perception problem.

Create a community. Yes. No community around it. And then also, you know, GoFundMe is charitable. And a lot of people are like, well, I don't want charity. And it's like, okay, well, it isn't charity. We're just using community to make dreams happen. To make dreams come true. And that is no different, I'm sure you'd understand,

as to what you're all doing to achieve your dream in everyday life. Anyway, that's why we have award speeches You can thank everybody that made it happen. Yeah, I'm just making that digital and Bringing the community that helps you whether it's family friends or that it's your fans or following Bringing that onto a digital space where you can talk, interact with them, get updates about what's going on, and within your wildest dreams of whatever's accessible on the internet. And it's cool.

It's so interesting, because I mean, of all the best things that I, you know, I'm an actor who does a lot of stage work. Right. I mean, I've done TV, but like that stage is my love. And that, you know, putting on a play or putting on a musical takes input

from so many different people. And my favorite part about being a stage actor is that it is a communal thing and it is something that a whole bunch of artists come together to create together. I feel the same way about all the projects I do. Yeah, I'm sure as a musician, you absolutely feel the same way. But this is like do. Yeah, yeah. I'm sure as a musician, you absolutely feel the same way.

But this is like an extension of exactly that sort of same mission statement, which I just I really love. I mean, I think it's a really. There's and there's nothing like that right now. Well, I mean, for me, like going on OnlyFans, it kind of ended up being that I wouldn't really post things that are very raunchy at all in the end. For people who don't know OnlyFans, like I guess...

I had a... Well it's funny, like the thing with OnlyFans is I had a deal that I had already done with OnlyFans. I didn't just like join the platform. And for them, something that they really wanted to do and that was important to them last year was they wanted to onboard people that weren't doing X-rated content and expand the type of person that was creating content on there because it's hard for them to get actors or just people that are. There was maybe a little bit of a stigma around people.

A little bit. There's a lot. Just put it lightly. Listen, there's a lot. Of course, in the beginning it was who you'd expect to be on there with creepy guys and stuff, stigma around people. A little bit. There's a lot. Let's just put it lightly. Listen, there's a lot. Yeah. You know, of course in the beginning it was who you'd expect to be on there with like creepy guys and stuff,

but it really evolved over the course of a year that I was on there into just fans and people wanting to interact, reach out, hear what I was doing, and have proximity to me in that, it's community. And they would wanna just donate money to me for really nothing. Right. In my opinion. And I'm like, okay, well, what if this could actually be a different platform?

Like, I think there's something here to this in terms of people's need for proximity, but then not necessarily. And wanting to genuinely help even my fans off fans, not in regard to this platform, when I've put out albums independently, they've gotten together and crowdfunded themselves and put up billboards in celebration of it and done things like this. I'm sure a lot of other artists

probably have experiences like this when you have a strong fan base where they do things like this for you on their own. People will go to the ends of the earth when they believe and feel part of something and so I just felt like there's something here that I don't think really exists. I don't think this riddle can be solved via OnlyFans although I respect the effort. I understand what OnlyFans was looking to do but I don't think... I think they're

too far down that stream. Weren't you always kind of only planning to be on there for about a year? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I stayed on it. It's funny, everyone's like, oh, she edited her OnlyFans for crypto. In truth, it was always coming to an end. I ended it a week before, to be fair.

You know what I mean? Like, thank you for giving me the credit, but I probably don't deserve it in regard to that. It was a business choice that was already on my schedule. You know, I do remember like navigating that new world and I guess I've never really looked at crypto as this sort of opportunity really. Yeah, yeah.

I love that you're having a good time doing it. I mean, also it should be said that it's doing really, really, really, really well. Yeah, it's doing really well. It's doing incredibly well. It is, it's true. I always like to be the first mover in a space. I'm not the first to create a meme coin that's a famous celebrity,

but I think I'm maybe the first person to take it seriously, perhaps. Right, maybe. Maybe. I mean, how old's your son, two? He's four. Four, oh, four already, wow, mine too. Yeah, I would like to have one more baby,

but I'm probably a while away from that happening, because I'm single. You're very busy. And I'm pretty busy, yeah. But it sort of seems like your music career was coming to some sort of a climax or finish. Yeah, I agree. I wouldn't call it a closure,

I'd call it a climax, as you were becoming a mother as well. I think sometimes things in life are just serendipitous and sometimes there's just the perfect time to jump in and other times it's the perfect time to exit. And I think that, you know, probably people older than me or my age would understand this and if you're younger

and you don't, you will one day, but like life has many chapters and you have to know when it's time to move on from it. It can be because maybe you're not being successful at it, but also from an emotional standpoint or from a growth as a person standpoint. And I just didn't feel like,

beyond the creativity element of it, or me feeling a little bit stagnant in that, and in regard to like, what can I do with the character of Iggy and where can I take that? I felt that I've been very creative with it for many years in the different music videos. I did feel burnt out creatively that I didn't really have much more to offer and was rehashing a lot.

That made me want to spend time doing other things, but having my son was a massive catalyst to that because I no longer want to be traveling around everywhere. I wanna take my son to school, you know? I want him to have memories with me and give him that time. It's really important to me. I owe my success in large part to my mother

because she spent so much time with me and she just really gassed me up and made me think I was a superwoman genius dancer extraordinaire, painter extraordinaire, chef, whatever it was you know and and it's important to me even when my son's only four like that I'm know I'm there like instilling that like confidence in him and like you know just helping guide him. It's my job as a parent. I think if you're going to have a child, you should be prepared to do that and engage in that way,

and I really want to. So, it just, I toured two years with my son on a bus, and it was time for that to end. You said something about that, I think it's so, I never hear from anyone in any industry regarding the entertainment business. Yeah. But you said something that I think is so,

I wouldn't even call it brave, but I'm just like, you were so honest that you said, I didn't have any more to give. Like, I just feel like there's so many people in acting industry, music industry, you know, writing industries, that they feel like they have to stay ahead of that Indiana Jones ball that's running after them, even though,

and you're like, I'm not gonna actually be in this tunnel anymore, I'm gonna go to a whole different tunnel where there's no ball. I wanna make a new character. Yeah, yeah. I just think that's so fascinating. There's something sort of brave about that too, to say this thing that people love,

I'm gonna step away from it. I think you stay in it, a lot of people, I think stay in it longer than they really know that they, wrong than they really want to because of that. Like the pressure from the industry. To be honest with you, I think I probably was in it for maybe, I'd say maybe two years longer

than what I really organically should have been, but that was purely because I wouldn't have been able to tell you at that time what the direction should be for me and those last two years Truthfully word me being like let me keep doing what I'm doing what I know This is all I know to be good at and it does make me happy I wasn't unhappy doing it worse, but I wasn't totally fulfilled doing it at that time either But I just don't know what else is fulfilling to me.

And I'm just trying to, in my free time, dabble around and try different things and figure out what gives me that spark of happiness and excitement. Because ultimately that's what it's about, I think. We're all doing whatever we're doing to be happy, right? And I think happiness is're all doing whatever we're doing to be happy right and I think happiness is as Simple as having something to be hopeful and look forward to doing every day

And I didn't really feel like I was loving getting up to do those things They started to feel more like a job to me, and that's when I think you should probably Step away step away. I as an actor. I sometimes feel like I wouldn't know what else to do. I have other passions, like I love cooking. I would go to culinary school if I could. Me too. I looked into it. Did you?

Yes, but I was still in music. I was like, you know what, I'm way too much. So, what would you ever do then? I looked into it during Modern Family, and I was like, well, how am I gonna do this? I'd love to learn more knife skills. Me too. We should go to cook school together.

And stuff like that, that you just have to be there to be taught. I'm like, fuck, I can cook a recipe, cook my ass off, but I love to learn how to plate food and just skills that can only be taught when you're there. I go back to Instagram pages just full of people plating food and making cakes.

I think a lot of creative people have this dilemma and it's a tough one because it's like, your job should not be your identity as a human. 100%. We can all agree with that. But it gets complicated when your passion, which is obviously your identity, becomes your job. It also gets complicated to add on to that when you have a fan base that blurs the line between who you are and who like, quote unquote, Iggy is or Jessie is. Yes.

Yeah. Very much so. And then there's the judgment of that too, like are you okay, are you sad, are you abandoning us, do you not care? And there is a lot of like guilt about leaving too, where it's like I don't wanna abandon you and I don't want you to think I'm unhappy here either

or ungrateful I am, but like, I have to figure out who I am outside of my job because it doesn't serve me, but I am still, my job is my passion and all I've ever known. It's so much of my identity that I don't know where to even start to begin to move on from a chapter of that, which it's scary, it is scary. So I understand why people sometimes

just never leave and keep just on with that cycle. Well, I think if you hit it, you really hit it on the head when you're talking about disappointing people because if you are in the entertainment business and you're lucky enough to be someone that is successful, usually that's because of people who have decided to be fans of yours.

And you know, purchase your music or watch your films or watch your movies. And so yeah, it's exactly that. You don't want them. They are the reason why you were able to do all these other great things. But at the end of the day, your happiness is very important.

You do have to worry about yourself. And you can't be a machine, 100%. And also at the end of the day, your happiness is very important. You do have to worry about yourself. And you can be a machine, 100%. And also at the same time, like, I do know that you love me, but in fairness, you are loving this one layer of me that I showcased for the sake of entertainment, but I'm many layers, we all are. Yeah, and I've heard you say before that you feel like,

and I certainly relate to this, that your fame actually made you feel less connected to the people who admire you and your fans. Yeah, you become the wizard behind the fucking, the curtain. And it's like, I don't wanna be the wizard of Oz. I wanna be Dorothy going down the park and meeting everyone along the way. I don't wanna to be the Wizard of Oz. I want to be Dorothy going down the path and meeting everyone along the way. I don't want to be the wizard back there, you know?

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Iggy talks to me about being a single mom, leaving her small town in Australia when she was a teenager, and finding her community online. OK, be right back. and finding our community online. Okay, be right back. When your celebration of life is prepaid in advance, it becomes a gift from you to your family later,

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And we're back with more Dinners on Me. You were talking about your mom a little bit. I know she was a single mother for a while, right? I know she's... Yeah, she was. I lived with my dad and my mom until I was about, I want to say maybe seven or eight. And then she just came and picked me up from the bus stop one day and was like, you're not getting on the bus to go home today. And that was that. And she was just me, her, and my sister for a while,

I'd say like maybe four or five years. And then she remarried and I love my stepdad, you know. They're still happily married to this day, so she was a single mother for a little, for a section of our life, yeah. And I know, you just mentioned yourself, you know, you're being single right now. Yeah, I'm very much a single mother.

Do you? I'm very much the only parent. Oh, yeah. No disrespect, but I, You're being single right now. Yeah, I'm very much a single mother. Do you? I'm very much the only parent. Yeah. No disrespect, but I am not co-parenting, really. I totally get it. That's just the reality of it. It's 24-7.

I mean, has your mom been helpful in any way, sort of like guiding you through being a single parent? Or are there things that she did for you that sort of has been something that you look on as? I think we all, whether you're a single parent or not, you look back at the job your parent did once you become a parent and have a lot of light bulb moments, definitely.

But to be honest with you, I don't necessarily go to her for like, to confide in her or for guidance. I have like a life coach, therapist, career coach, really both of those things that, that's been my number one life-changing thing for me. When I- How long have you been working with someone like that? Four years since I had my son.

Incredible. When I had my son with COVID and then, you know, I abruptly broke up and my life was very upside down. I wasn't working like most people in entertainment weren't because there was no work for us to be had. And I just felt really discombobulated about where my life was. And so I decided that I would go talk to somebody because I just didn't have the answers. I had no answers. I tried to find the answers for about six months and I was like, Hey, I can't find these on my own. And I need help with figuring it out.

And so I started to talk to this, this woman, she's amazing. Um, and we'd talk twice a week, sometimes three times a week for the first year or two. Now I check in, you know, usually when I'm frustrated in business actually. I'll be like, this fucking bastard, yeah! And she's like, hey, you know what? Let's read, let's read. I have a friend who used to call her therapist

on the way to her therapist. Like literally, she's like, I gotta start early. Like why do they want me to fucking come and do this when they, what, don't they trust my, you know, like, but it's helped me so much. It's helped me so much in every, like, which way of my life. That's been really my biggest help, but with my mom, the way that she's really like helped me so much

is just by being there. Cause sometimes it can't even be put into words. And I'm still like that as an adult where I'm like, I'm not even calling for advice, but I just am calling to tell you, please get on a plane because I don't even need you to say anything. I just need you to sit in the corner of the room I'm in.

And somehow it helps. You know, sometimes I still have times like that. And she's like, really, that's been the thing since having my son that has helped me. Isn't it powerful knowing that you're going to be that for your son? Yes. That presence is so important. A million times over, a million times over.

Every other day I'm like, am I still your best friend just checking? Yeah, same. I mean, when my- Can I be doing it? A thing else? When my son asks about me, if I'm not around, like it just warms me so much. Yes, same, same. Yeah.

I just always wanna, I think it takes a village and it's important to remember that as a parent, like hey, it takes a village, but I just wanna make sure that within that village I don't get lost in that village and that a lot of parents that I'm friends with, you know, or that'll just be them raising their child all the time

without, and they kind of have this guilt to like, let your child go or let a family member help that day, or if it's that you're hiring a nanny or a babysitter and there's this like, always this parent guilt. I know, I have it too. Yes, we are. And you're just, even right now I'm in New York and I feel so terrible that I'm spending two days away

from my son. He's like, it's fine, two sleepovers, see you tomorrow. You're gonna bring me macaroons or what? You know, he's fine. He's independent, but in that regard, that's what I'm saying. I think that ultimately it's like,

it's important for you to try to remember even through your parental guilt that you're giving them a village ultimately, and it's good. It's good to have the village. And setting such a great example of doing things that make you happy and passionate. Yeah, exactly.

One day your child's gonna go off and have their own journey. And you want them to do things that... And then you wanna make sure that you're still on your own. Your journey cannot become somebody else. I'm so inspired by you and also just like, I love this chapter that you're entering into. I mean, you'll always.

Me too. You will always be known as first an incredible rapper musician. Yeah, no, of course. I don't want to discount that. I had my fun, it was great. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was amazing.

My son watches my music videos. Which one does he love? He loves Black Widow. Oh, yeah. It's the Samurai Swords. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he wrote me a birthday card, it was my birthday a week ago,

and he drew a big spider in it, and he was like, that's a black widow. Okay, cool. He's been writing songs lately, which terrifies me. I'm like, it's fine, it's fine, he's four, I really don't want you to be an artist, don't go in the industry, no, but you know, I have to support whatever he wants to do. And he is four, it really don't want you to be an artist, don't go in the industry, no, but I have to support whatever he wants to do,

and he is four, it'll change a million times over. He'll probably want to be Spider-Man next week. But he's definitely interested that that's my job, or he doesn't really understand my job now, but seeing the music videos is tangible to him. So he's like, yes, Samurai Sword's singing songs, dancing, yes. I mean, you look like a superwoman.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's very cool. He thinks it's great. He thinks it's great. And once he watches Clueless, we'll show him. He'll get that. Yeah, yeah, we'll show fancy.

More to come, more to come. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, right now, Black Widow, it's the samurai sword fighting, the spiders and all that. Yeah, that is his absolute number one favorite song of mine, is Black Widow. I love that. I respect it, I respect it.

Sometimes he'll be like, you sing your song. I'm like, work, work, working on my shit. I'm working on it. Woo, is this good to you? But he loves it. So, you know, I'll be an idiot for him any day. I love it. I love it.

I am curious. I know you grew up in a very small town in Australia, like 4,000 people, very small. Yeah, I mean maybe now, I think when I live there, even less. Yeah, yeah. It's, it is. Like in a house that your dad built, the bricks with mud.

He did, he built our house out of mud bricks. It is pretty, I mean I'm just sitting here with you now, it's like an incredible, I'm always so curious on how people get out of those. From there to there? I mean, I'm just sitting here with you now. It's like an incredible, I'm always so curious in how people get out of those. I mean, obviously a million things have happened for the good you came here. But I mean, like to leave Australia and to have this dream of being an artist,

and I know you left Australia when you were very young to come to the United States, and you know, those are big moves, but now like after I'm sitting down with you, I realize that you only do big moves. I feel like that's really incredible. Yeah, I only do big moves, but now after I'm sitting down with you, I realize that you only do big moves. I feel like that's really incredible. Yeah, I only do big moves. Did you know, obviously at 14 you don't know, you don't have the macro version

of what your career's gonna be, but you were kind of starting that trend of really setting yourself on your own path. I don't know what it is about me, but my whole life, whatever it is that everyone else is doing, I don't wanna do it. Yeah. And that would get me bullied a lot

when I would be in school, because I am from a really small town, and so you're in a class with 30 kids, and for me, in school, that was always dressing differently from everybody else. And so I was- Your mom made your clothes, right? It, I had a lot of tie dye.

Yeah. A lot of tie dye was happening and Spice Girls were really cool. So I was doing platforms and everyone else was not doing platforms. And I'm like, I mean, I think I'm the coolest. Yeah. But I am getting bullied for the way I dress, but I also won't change it. So I don't know, I think like, when I think back to things like that,

I'm like, I can see why, I don't know, I guess I've just always liked that, ever since four or five, like even preschool, it's just, I don't know what it is inside me that's made me be that way, I can't explain it, but it's always been that way. I would get dressed up in our dress up box and walk to the supermarket often with my friends

and then we would, this is so stupid, I've never said this in an interview but it's true, we'd go to the checkout and buy candy and then talk to each other and have a script where we would pretend we were going to our friends' dress up parties, but we weren't. But we would like, or I would get- For like the benefit of the person

who was selling you the candy? Just for a narrative of excuse of why but really I what it was about was that You know we wanted attention or to be looked at yeah It's a showmanship in some way of I think that's what it deeply was like I wanted to put on a show somehow and that was my Stage the supermarket when you live in a town that little, that's what it is, you know? But like, I can't explain what it is.

It's always, I've just always had that. I wanted to play soccer and I did because it was all the boys. And so now I wanna be the girl playing soccer. I think rap was a little bit that way for me too at the time where there weren't too many, there weren't a lot of females in that space at that time. And so I felt like, okay, this is something then

that I wanted, it's something to try to conquer. And me being from another country makes it even more unlikely. Now I really want to do it. I want to be from Australia and crack that because the layers of unlikeliness and impossibility for me in anything that I do are always what makes it interesting and what makes me want it.

The ease of something is not appealing to me and I can't explain on a deep level what that is. I may have to call Barbara, a therapist, she probably could tell me, but I just, I am drawn to it like a magnet in every way, shape, and form. I don't know. I'm so inspired by you. I'm so happy I got to meet you

because even just hearing how you were bullied and came out of that, I'm constantly being asked by kids who are feeling like an outsider, like what advice would you give to me? And I never know how to answer that question, but just even hearing how you were saying, embracing, you kind of like doubled down.

Double down. On it. Double down. Is a piece of advice I have never given, but I think is actually so wildly helpful. Yeah, this is what I would say to somebody. One, double down. Be convicted in what the fuck you're doing, because whatever your own natural first thought is,

it is always the right one. So don't ever in life, like, never in life let someone sway you from your gut instinct. You'll never be happy with that. So don't ever do it. Even no matter what. Never double down on your gut. And then just find your community. Like for me, I'd never liked going to school, even in the 10th grade, I didn't like it. I didn't like it in preschool. And I didn't like it. I didn't like it in preschool, and I didn't like it in the... The 10th grade was the

last grade I graduated from, actually. So that's why I say 10. I never found my community in the real world until later in life as an adult, but I think that's the beauty of technology, too, where you have access to the internet, and there are a million things. Friendships are just as powerful and community is just as powerful in digital form as it is in real life form.

It's still connection. That's what got me to America. That's what I would say. Double down and then find where you fit in. It might not be in school. Fuck those people. I'm so glad I didn't ever worry about what those people think.

Whether the other people perceive it as cool or not, like you want to organically be wearing or doing or saying, or you want to be exuding the things that you believe in. Right, that things that make you happy. Is it really such a, yeah, it's hurtful, don't get me wrong. It's emotionally a big deal. But when you think about it logically, like do you really want that person to think that you're cool? Yeah, it's hurtful, don't get me wrong. It's emotionally a big deal. But when you think about it logically, do you really want that person to think that you're cool?

Yeah, it's great advice. I think you're putting really beautiful stuff out in the world. And you're really putting your money where your mouth is. Thank you. And you are advocating for things that, you know, you've received so many gifts in your life and you're giving back in a really beautiful way.

Thanks for doing this with me. Thank you for paying for my food and letting me eat something. Yeah, of course. Yeah, dinner's on me. And having a really cute and amazing conversation actually. It's been nice. This episode of Dinners on Me was recorded at Sartianos at the Mercer Hotel in New York City. Next week on Dinners on Me, the comedian, actress, and icon, it's Sandra Bernhardt.

We'll get into her friendship with Madonna, making a name for herself in stand-up, and being one of the first queer women on TV. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners On Me Plus. As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad-free. Just click Try Free at the top of the Dinners on Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today.

Dinners on Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Angela Vang. Sam Baer engineered this episode. Hans-Dyl She composed our theme music.

Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tamika Balanz-anz Kalasny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week. If you're shopping while working, eating, or even listening to this podcast, then you know and love the thrill of the hunt. But are you getting the thrill of the best deals? Rakuten shoppers do. They get the brands they love with the most savings and cash back, and you can get it too. Start getting cash back at your favorite stores like Old Navy, Best Buy, and Expedia, and even stack sales on top of cash back. It's easy to use, and you get your cash back through

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