Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - Jake Shane on Therapuss, TikTok Fame and Chasing Validation

Episode Date: July 21, 2026

Therapuss host Jake Shane joins the show. Over prosciutto and pasta, Jake tells me about going viral on TikTok seemingly overnight, the supportive celebs who helped his showTherapuss (now on Netflix!) succeed and we get into anxiety, people-pleasing and coping with online criticism. This episode was recorded at Sogno Toscano in Santa Monica, CA.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Being in London this summer for Jesus Christ Superstar has been so fun, so incredible. But one thing I've learned is that when you're somewhere else for work, you still want to carve out time to actually enjoy where you are. London's an amazing city. I'm here with the family. So between performances, Justin and I have been trying to explore with the kids, find new parks, squeeze in museum visits, you know, make some real family memories while we're here, which, as any parent knows, takes a fair amount of planning. and anyone who knows my relationship knows that's all Justin's territory. It could sometimes feel hard to plan while you're traveling when you really just want to go with the flow and see where things take you,

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At least they're talking about me, thank God. Imagine if they weren't, I'd be doing a horrible job. And then I'd be more upset that they weren't talking about me. This is Dinner's On Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Today we're at Soyo Tescano Cafe in Santa Monica. It's this effortlessly cool Italian cafe and market that feels equal parts, neighborhood hangout, and celebrity lunch spot. The menu has everything you'd want for a long lunch, flaky paper, pastries, truffle egg sandwiches, fresh feccacha, giant ice coffees, I'm eyeing a

pommodoro. Soyo has this really great energy today. It's a memorial day and it's a jazz band playing and it seems like the perfect place to hang out and meet a new friend. I'm very excited to meet Jake. I think I've been in the vicinity of him a few times, but we've actually never met. So I'm very excited to hang out with him. All right, let's get to the conversation. Here's the thing is I love an Italian restaurant that sells Italian delicacies on the side. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like a little market attached?

Like, look, I love the market. Are you going to leave with some dry pasta? I think I might. I think I might. It's my favorite thing. Thanks for having me. Thanks for coming. I sat next to you.

I've been following me on Instagram for some time. Olivia? Yes, but we didn't really talk. I'm super shy. You are? Yeah, I am. Now we are saying hello. I know.

That was a fun concert because it was like her... It was like a preview of her... Guts. Yes. Her new album's gonna be amazing. Have you heard any of that? No. I wish. I just know it's gonna do things for me.

How are you? How are you? This is Jake. Hi, I'm Jake. Nice to meet you. Jake's been here before. I have not for years, but I have been here. But you have been here.

I've never been here. I love a little floppy menu. There's a couple of drinks and some wines. If you have any question, I'm here for... Okay. Thank you. What? Do you smoke?

I don't. I get that from you. You do smoke. I was just listening to you talk about that in a recent episode of your podcast. It's a little, I think that's why I'm a little. I think I was just hearing you talk about how you were trying to go to New York and not drink over a weekend. I want to know if you're successful. Oh my God.

I didn't drink. Thank you so much. I didn't drink. But you said you were going to like smoke like a chimney. I did. I did. I smoked. Weed and cigarettes?

Or just one of the other? It was mostly. We need and then... But I'm potty with him not drinking. Did you feel good? Yes. Yeah. And I didn't drink this weekend either.

Good for you. Yeah. And then I like was like, oh, I feel good. Yeah, no, it's definitely like... Because when I go for the drink, like when I really go to drink, like, it takes me on a commission for like a week. Listen, I am substantially older than you. And I used to be able to go so hard. And now I have two kids and I'm a few decades older than you.

And I just can't do it anymore. How old are your kids? They're approaching four and six. Good age, about age? I think it's a good age. Okay. I'm into them at this age. Gentlemen, do you have any question for me?

We do, actually. Guess what's the seasonal salad? We're dying to know. So the best one or like the season? Like if we got this lunch special and we got the seasonal salad that came with it, what would the seasonal salad be? It's kind of like a mixed salad, so I don't know if I like it more tomatoes or some fat or cheese or some leaves. So we can do it together.

Oh, we can do it together. can create it together. Oh. Okay. It's going to be just like a side, but yeah, we can do. Okay, this is what I'm going to do. And you can take my lead if you want. You go first, please.

Okay. I'm going to do a capraise salad. And Jake might partake in some of that with me. Yeah, I will. And then I'm going to also then do a, I think I just want to do the Pomodoro. Yeah. The pasta? Mm-hmm.

And I want the pasta. You want the pesto, okay. That's great. I do. This is a great choice. And I think that's good for me. That's good for me too. Do you have Iberico ham?

Nope. Okay. Would you like... Presudo maybe? With the capricci with the caprice. On a side of prosciutto? Mm-hmm. And then, ooh.

And then can I get a... What does Cheikorado? I mean, it's pretty popular in Italy. It's like... Oh, that's like an ice coffee. Oh, it's an espresso martini. It's like espresso martini, but no alcohol. I'll do that.

It's like coffee and putting the shaker, shake, shake, shake, shake, foam and top. But no alcohol? No alcohol. Ooh. Do you want alcohol? No, no, no. God, no.

I think you know it's going to stick with water. You don't do like an ali-o-olio, do you? No, we don't do. I know what I mean, but no, we don't have. Okay, that's great. Then we're good. Thank you. Yeah.

Thank you so much. Thank you. Can you take your menu? Yeah, you can take my money. Thanks. What is that? so much. What is about sandwich? What just walked by? The sandwich.

The sandwich. Because I'm going to eat... There is a couple of different... Do you want to try? Can I send one? Whatever sandwich she... Yes. Whatever sandwich she... You want to send that out? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever sandwich situation she just... Let me show you out. And then instead of the Pesto, can I also do the Pomodoro, but with Capitelli? I'm so sorry. Thank you. Thank you. I cannot wait to see what comes out. I know. So, are you watching the Burroughs on Netflix?

I haven't started it yet. It's good. My friend Dennis Learres on it. Okay, well, the confusing part about the burrows to me is that Bill Pullman is in it. Oh, well, this is a spoiler. He dies. Okay. Episode one. Okay.

And I'm like, well, they must bring him back. It's Bill Pullman. Right. No. So I'm very confused. He's like the Drew Barrymore of Scream where she dies in the first 10 minutes. But was she drew Barrymore by the time she is? Yeah, she's been Drew Barrymore all forever.

So was everyone very confused as to what? What? Yeah. Okay. That's like the thing. Like, that was like a crazy thing that they did with that film. It was like they brought in a huge stock, probably the biggest star of the film. And they killed her off in five minutes.

I did not know that. And were people like super gagged by it? Yeah. And so like when they did like the scary movie franchises, they like, they basically like. I've seen scary movie. Emulated that same setup by getting some huge star or like some very like fuzzy pop culture figure. Got it, got it. Got it.

And then killed her off within the first like, you know, 10 bats. Got it. What's your favorite movie of all time? Of all time, okay, that's a very difficult question, but I do love Magnolia. I've never seen. Is that Steel Magnolias? Or Magnolia? Magnolia, the Paul Thomas Anderson film. It's probably like two decades old. Julian Moore... Is that the one that put him on the map?

No, I would say Boogie Nights. Well, actually, Magnolia might have been right before Boogie Nights. It was definitely a Gronofer, like, huge successes. I'm not well-versed in cinema. I'm very well-versed in pop culture. In pop culture and television. Okay. TV, I like, hop down. Wait, let me ask you. Did you watch Modern Family or? Yeah, of course I watched Modern Family. No, because some people don't.

Of course I watch Modern Family. Some people had a stigma about it. Like, it's like a family sitcom. I feel like that was pretty objectively funny. Okay. That's how I felt about it. Did you, and you liked it? I loved it. There's no pressure.

So I watched Modern Family. I watched How I Met Your Mother. And I, and 30 Rock. Okay. Those were the three sitcoms I was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you, okay. And a little bit of Parks and Rec here and there. Oh, wow. Wow.

Gives the illusion of a cocktail. Oh, when I get one too. Oh, wow, it's like a proper mocktail. I'm gonna fly out of here. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. I know that.

Mmm. It's like a chilled. I feel like I'm drinking, but I'm not. So it's making me feel weird. To be honest. It's giving you mixed messages. I wish I had a nice coffee instead. But I'm gonna go with this.

I'm gonna ride this wave. It's a little sweet though, which I, I think it's a tad sweet. Okay. It's got a bit of a look like a guy. I like coffee that tastes like dessert, which is probably why I put on 20-thousy-a-year-a-old. And you want more sweetness in here? I want like an ice cream. Okay, I got it.

Jake, tell me about your Broadway debut. Oh, I'm so happy you asked. It was so wonderful. It was so wonderful. It was with Nicholas Braun, Ray Bermano, Jenny Slate. Simon Rich wrote it. Alex Timbers directed it. It was like, it was just the best.

It was so nice having, I mean, I know this is like the least of it, but like having that routine of like every day having a show. Because I've been on tour for my podcast, which was a little more taxing, just because it was just me on stage, but having a script to read off of knowing that you could do a little bit of improv and you're doing it with other people and you get to do it every day.

Like it was just the best. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Jake talks about the TikToks that launched his career overnight and why he still misses making the strange hyper-specific sketches that started it all. Okay, be right back. Support for today's episode comes from Square, the system that fixes one of the biggest headaches in running a business.

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Yeah, I did the sixth grade play, the eighth grade play, and my senior year. Okay, and this is when you were in New York? Yeah. Okay. And did you think at that time that you were going to be an actor? Did you want to be an actor? I think I always wanted to be, but I think I was like. Like, my first priority was, like, making sure, like, my bills were paid.

Your bills were paid? Yeah, my bills. Because my parents were going to cut me off the second I was whatever. Okay. And... So even, like, in the eighth, ninth, ninth, and tenth grade when you were in these plays... I think I was also insecure. Okay.

And being an actor requires a lot of security. Uh-huh. Because you're, like, essentially, like... I don't know. I feel like it's pretty self-explanatory, right? To be an actor requires a lot of, like... like security in yourself? Yes and no.

I feel like I was also very insecure and I found by acting I was able to hide into other characters and other people and then not have to deal with like this. Interesting. The real version. Interesting. You know.

So for me it was like a way to avoid insecurity by pretending to be someone else. But yes, I understand what you're saying where it's like, you know, there is a certain level of like confidence in yourself. that you have to have in order to... I think I was just shy as well, in a sense, there. And I was like, I don't want to do a bad job at anything.

And then have people be like, you didn't... I don't know. Regardless, I started working in music. So that was like, that's where I went. And I was very happy. Very, very, very happy. And one thing kind of led to another. I was put on TikTok, and they just kind of all took off all at once.

But all this was happening when you were still in high school? No, I went to college. I went to USC. I was working on record leave of my junior year of college. I was interning. I entered for the entire year. I was obsessed. And I was like, I'm ready to quit school.

I'm going to start working for you. And my boss was like, no, you need to finish school. And I was like, okay. So I was very bored that year. I was smoking a lot. I was smoking a lot. Like, I was just, it was my senior year of college. I literally, I was just, like, I felt like a real college kid.

And so I came up with this idea past that put or past the pus. And that username was taken. So past that puss is what I came up with. I started reviewing Octopus, like the food. And then I just started posting TikToks. And then I ended up working full time at this record label. My boss, this guy named Zach, was like, if anything ever happened with your TikTok, I'll manage you. And then over the course of a week, I posted these, like, improv skits.

Yes. Which was sweet because that tied back to, like, my theater kid roots. And that is what took me off. And these were sort of these abstract. Yes, yes. Yes. That's how I discovered you because they are so clever and funny. Thank you.

I appreciate it. I feel like I've kind of done them to the ground, but I appreciate it. But whenever you revive one or you like decide to dip your toe back into that, I get very excited. I know. Thank you. It's only when I'm with Brett, my roommate, my best friend, who is a very big modern family fan, man, as the rest of the world. This is still your roommate now. Yes.

Okay. And once we get a good one. will be like, oh, that was, I have to make her laugh. At one point, I was doing them just to do them, and no one was laughing. So I was like, okay, like, I got a, like, there's no point in this. And so for people who have never, like, seen me, because there are, like, a handful of people who have, like, yet to see one of these. Like, how would you describe them? It's just so basically, it's like someone will comment, like, I tell Julia Fox be, like, comment something, do you want me to act out and I'll act it out.

So it's that. And I kind of just play it as me. Right. So the one I remember, like, loving was, like, George Washington. I had his photo shoot. Yeah, yes. Yeah. I had a photo shoot for the dollar bill.

Yeah. Yeah. That's a real problem. He's surprisingly. I didn't laugh at me. You know, no one in the room when we did that laugh that hard. No one thought it was funny. And I was like, I feel like people like you would get it.

He's done a photo shoot. Yeah, yeah. And, like, he's like being a... It's very nuanced. I was just like I'll play him as like a pop girl. Right, right. Yeah. Very nuanced.

It's very specific. There was another one of, like, was it a storm? You were doing some sort of a storm? Oh, thank you. Thunder. Are you ready for you? Yes, yeah. Thank you.

Yeah, me. Yum. Yes, I was right. You were doing thunder. My mouth is literally watering. How about that? Yes, thank you so much. Thank you.

I don't know if you want to share, but. I think we got the same thing. Oh. Now, why did you want that pasta instead of the pasta? I like stuff that I can, like, Little bites Little bites This place is amazing

I'm not just saying that You know I think I really responded to your videos When you're doing these like really abstracts Well thank you that means a lot for me coming For someone like you Because like Tyberl and I When we were during Modern Family

We would We would also Thank you Forciutto di Parma Oh my God, yes Here you are Look it, that's all for you like that's our humor

like we would do this like one of our sketches that we would do for each other are imitations we would uh I would do this this character

I would always I would never be able to talk about this on like a talk show because they would be like tell us about some of the inside jokes and Ty and I would always want to talk about us but like it's just not appropriate for like daytime television

but I would do something called oh my god this kid's so cute I love babies I would do this thing called the blind masturbator uh huh Which was? Which was

I would be blind and I would basically like feel around to make sure no one was in my vicinity and then I would start masturbating and then I would like Jesse Jesse Jesse and then I would like stop masturbating

and this is that real someone was actually in the room with me and so that was just a joke we would do and I would just kind of if we were bored on set I would just kind of go he knew when I started doing this that like it was time to like do the blind masturbator.

Uh-huh. And so, but we can't ever talk about this on a talk show. In fact, I don't even know. This won't even make it

to the podcast. It won't. Derada says it will. You say it won't. It's pretty incredible. So anyway, that's like, what you were doing,

what you were doing on your TikTok was equivalent to the blind masturbator. It was really hitting my sweet spot. Thank you. I appreciate it. But that's why, that's how I thought here.

Your humor. Thank you. I miss doing them a lot. I think I'm going to sign up for, like I think I want to do some UCB classes just for like like because like that it's so I love improv it's so fun for me

it's so fun like I love it allows me to bring exactly my humor to what any scenario improv is so I feel like improv is like a fingerprint kind of it's like no one's improv is going to be the same no no no absolutely not yeah you're so right did you when you were doing you know these TikToks and then sort of

making a impression on social media was, because I mean, I was so late to all this. Uh-huh.

But was there a moment where like you did something specific or there was like a week where like sort of like all changed for you

where you felt like it was the week that I was doing those kids. And what did that I mean, what did it look like you were just like doing these things

with their roommate and then all of saying putting them on your TikTok and then I got it. It was like I was like, I went from like 60,000 followers

to, it sounds so dystopian, but it is true, like a million. And my boss at the time, Zach, was like, okay, well, I'll manage you now. So he took me to all the talent agencies because they had all reached out and I signed with the talent agency and it just kind of took, like,

it was off to the races from there. And like when you signed with a talent agency for, you know, being at that point, I guess what you would call it TikToker. Right. I mean, what is, like, Well, it's difficult because I was like, I want to act, and then SAG went on strike right after. Oh, right.

So then we were kind of like... This is so recent. Uh-huh. Yeah. Then we decided to do a podcast, and my manager told me to not expect any growth for two years. And I put my own money into it, which was great, because I own it now. And the podcast then became like my... source of how people knew me.

And when you were starting that, because you have pretty impressive guests pretty early on, in my opinion. Yes, that's true. And how did that happen? Because I was friends with Tate and Renee before, and they were very good friends and came on the show when they did not need to. Tate McGray. Yes.

And Renee Rapp. They did not need to come on the show. They could have done anything else, but they were really, really, really good friends. And they came on the show, and it, like, opened the floodgates for other people to come on. And it's literally all because of them. And I also, my best friends who came on the show, like, Julia. Well, I mean, what is impressive to me is that, you know, you get people on who don't necessarily do this a lot. Like, they're not really people who you hear in, like, long-form interviews.

They're sort of, they certainly use their own platforms to talk about things, but they don't really bring that talent to other people. and, like, they seem to trust you in a way that's, like, really incredible. And is there something that you feel, like, I mean, what do you think it is? Well, it's probably partly the fact that I'm like, you can say something, and if you want it out, we'll cut it out. Yeah, I'm in the same way. I will always say that. I'll say that public, like, well, I don't really care.

And there's that. And I don't know what else it is. I think it's just like... They obviously feel safe with you. I don't know. I don't know. I try to be disarming. I try to be pretty self-deprecating, which, like, which, like, I think is disarming in a way. And, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I'm never looking for a scoop. I'm never looking for a scoop. I'm never looking for, like, a gossip. Like, I'm never looking for. My whole thing has been, like, let's just, like, hope that this is funny or just see where this goes. I don't really, I don't know. My best, I don't know. I don't know. Thank you for saying that, though. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Jake shares how an unexpected friendship with model Kaya Gerber changed his life.

He opens up about navigating fame and validation and explains why not everyone has to like you. Okay, be right back. Hey, y'all, it's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder, what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if.

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The poet is available now on The Binge. Search for it wherever you get your podcast to start listening today. Subscribers to The Binge can listen to all episodes, all at once, add free. And we're back with more dinners on me. You also, I know you've talked a lot and you've even just mentioned it now, but like, you know, there's insecurity, there's OCD, there's anxiety, which I can check all this boxes myself completely. And, you know, I, what I've read and like what I've heard you talk about on your podcast is, you know, that there was like a very self-admitted, like, desire for. validation, which I think, you know, anyone who's involved in the entertainment industry completely understands whether or not they say that that's what they're seeking for.

I mean, none of us do this because we all want to be validating. Right, well, I didn't know that that was a crazy thing to say, so I wouldn't think it it is. It is something that a lot of people will not admit it. Right. We will not say it that bluntly. Right. I think there's something refreshing about you saying, like, yeah, I want validation.

Uh-huh. That being said, you know, you're in this place now where you have a, you have a podcast that is obviously doing so well. It's on Netflix now. It's like how do you manage this phase of your career that's still starting out? I mean, you're still at the beginning of whatever you want to do. Hopefully. I don't think this is your swan song yet. But like how do you manage, you know, when you do something like this, you put yourself out there and like all of a sudden validation is part of like what fuels your career. It's hard. And how do you manage How do you live in harmony with what people are saying about you?

And, like, comments and, like, have you had to curb yourself from looking at that stuff? A little bit. A little bit. I just remind my—the one thing that will make me feel better, if there's, like, a bad pressing— And it's like, oh, my God, well, at least my name gets clicks. Okay. Like, at least they're talking about me. Thank God.

Imagine if they weren't. I'd be doing a horrible job. And then I'd be more upset that they weren't talking about me. Right. But then the second thing that makes me feel better, it's just like, well, I still have my best friends that I've been best friends with for almost for eight years now. So it's like, you know, I still have my best friends. They're not going to leave me, I hope. Yeah.

That's my family. Right. Right. And I think that's the only way to like get through it. One is like, thank God that my name draws attention if it does. And two, I have best friends. Have you experienced, like, moments where... Is that bad to say?

No. Okay. Why would that be bad? Okay. It's the truth. So... I think that's really healthy. I mean, I think personal relationships are wildly important.

I mean, I think about that with, like, you know, if I'm doing something that's feeling like, it's not hitting the right way or it's, you know, my, whatever I'm putting my energy into is not resonating in a way that I feel it should. Like, I always go back to, like, well... Because your best friend will also... Right. And they'll tell you the truth. And then at the end of the day, you're still breathing. So it's like... Right.

I have been, I guess, in the past 15 years, maybe 16 years now, in a place where just more people listen to what I'm saying. Or like if I say something that the chances of it being heard by a great amount of people is higher than before. And... But I have... As time has gone on and as social media has gotten... more intense and just more, um, just, it's become a tool that everyone's using. Like, I have learned. I've had that. I've had to like basically, uh, I don't know, I added myself in ways that I'd

never had to before. And I remember saying things on social media, you know, 10, 15 years ago on Twitter. I think had I said it now, it would have gotten a lot more fraction and heat. And like, I'm grateful that that's not the case. But, like, it is... Well, people are a lot angrier today. Like, the world's, like, in far more shambles than it was back 15 years ago. Yeah. So I think that's why there's a lot more...

I mean, you see it, like, it's like science. It's like during COVID, cancel culture was at its peak because people were fucking miserable. Being on a podcast that's so popular, I mean, does it ever feel... Do you ever feel like there's, like, landmines that you're having to avoid, or is it just... Yeah. Yeah. We just all with one. I asked the dumbest question on planet Earth.

And it's like, do I keep it in or cut it out? Cut it out. Yeah. But then I kept the other dumb question I asked it because, like, that's who I am. You know. Yeah, I get it. Yeah. I mean, as someone who does get anxious, just managing that sort of new level of exposure.

Panging out with my friends, working out, helps me a lot. I have a new therapist who's been great. Yeah. Little things like that. I just imagine, like, growing up in New York would give me anxiety in ways that I didn't have to deal with. Because I grew up in Albuquerque, New Mexico. But, I mean, you really have spent most of your life moving between Los Angeles and New York,

which are these, you know, huge cities where there's just so much going on. There's so much life happening at both. And you were born in 99, was it? I mean, I look back at like, you know, what the world has been between, you know, 2000 and now. And it's like so much has happened. I mean, it's a crazy time to live in the world. Right. But then to live in those two cities, I think must just be, to be raised in those two cities has got to have been insane.

And yeah, growing up in, yeah, it was a lot of stress. It's like, you know, it's like a lot of people wanting to win all the time. Yeah. That's like what I remember. And then I was like, no, I'm gonna win. Like, that's, like, what I remember, like, from going to school in New York was that everyone wanted to go to the best college, everyone wanted to do, me included, and it was just, like, a shit show.

I always have this idea of, like, people who, like, went to high school and college in New York. It's, you know, sort of running in these circles with, like, it's, like, basically, like, an episode of I Love L.A. Like, it's just like... That wasn't my life. I couldn't get in anywhere because I looked too young. I couldn't pay my way in anywhere because I didn't. have the money to.

And that was that kind of, and that was like the story of my life. Like, like, I couldn't, like, really do the things that you would imagine a New York high school kid would do. Right. You know? But, but I thought, like, I always felt like, kind of embarrassed. People would be like, is it like, like, gospel?

And I'd be like, yeah. And it wasn't. Right. You know? Right. Do you think you would, I mean, so you, I mean, I think it's pretty awesome that you got to go back on stage after, you know, being away from it for so long? Is that something that you'd feel like you would ever want to do again?

Yes. Do you see yourself as an actor? I want to see myself as an actor. And I want to act more and prove that I can. I just did my first movie. Right. Wishful Thinking, which was... South West Southwest, right?

Yeah. And it was the best experience ever. It was me, Lewis Pullman, Maya Hawk. Yeah. And Eric Rahil and... Yeah. It was a great cast. Was that the video I had to shoot for, or is it? I got drinks with, you know, Kaya.

Okay, so I got drinks with Kaya Gerber, her boyfriend. I mean, I know who she is. Yes. Yeah. I got drinks with Kaya and Lewis, her boyfriend, Lewis Pullman. Right. You just spoke about Bill, who dies in the first episode of the Burroughs. Right. And I got drinks with them, and Lewis's best friend from

high school Graham game and Graham was making this movie wishful thinking and I didn't know that that was happening. So I like like when I'm like when I'm like holding court at like a like I wasn't holding court but like when I'm like putting on a show for people I don't know like over the top and like self deprecating and Graham thought it was really funny so that he cast me at that role. Okay. And that's how that happened. I was like crashing out over a guy.

I love it. That's so great. I love that. How did you in Miami? Her best friend, Travis's birthday party. My best friend, Will, was friends with Travis. We went to Travis's wig-themed birthday party. I love a wig-party.

I met Travis and Kyra the same night. Travis was like, happy birthday. Travis is that my best? Wait, is it a big party something that actually happened? Yep. I feel like I was the only person. No, but it was a wig party. And Kaya said to me, I love therapist.

And I'm thinking, like, oh, sure, you know, like, Kyra doesn't listen to therapist. And then a minute later, she said something very niche. And I looked her and I said, what? And we've been best friends ever since. I love that. Like, best friends. She's the best. She's like my biggest champion.

Like, really the best person in the entire world. So smart, so kind, so funny. It's interesting because, like, you know, I mean, you're very honest about being obsessed with celebrity and pop culture and, like, being insecure. And, like, you have now these relationship. people who are famous. And, you know, I think, you know, you're now entering your own part of your life where you are now getting your own fame.

Has it been, I mean, have there been conversations with these people who have sort of experienced that their entire life? Have they helped you through? Thousand percent. I'll talk to, like, someone. I'll just be like, how do I deal with this? Yeah. How did you deal with this?

Like, oh, just this, that. Like, this is my coping mechanism. This is how I cope with that. And it's very helpful to hear from somebody else. Right. I'm very lucky that I have people like that to go to for advice. Yeah. I mean, it's a very complicated thing because I, you know, there's one thing about, like,

wanting to be a part of something, and then actually the reality of, like, losing your anonymity and, you know, having your thoughts and your ideas be magnified in ways that other people don't have to worry about or at least deal with on a day-to-day racist on the most part. Has there been, like, something

that's, what's been the most surprising part about that for you? Yes, how's it going on here. It's so good. Thank you so much. Thanks. Stereo. Well, also, like...

It's so good. My team, like, the people that I work with are also my best brands and my family. Oh, interesting. So, it's like, it becomes a little less serious when you're doing it with people, that like is like your actual like you feel like is your family right you know it becomes like a little less serious and i don't really feel like i i kind of have to remind myself that the only reason i'm

here is because i was like myself and said things that were i found to be funny and true so if i ever stopped saying things that i find to be funny and true then right why am i here right right even if People don't agree with it. I need to find peace in the fact that people aren't going to agree with it. Like, it used to be like I was just saying it to a smaller group of people and everyone would agree with it and laugh because they wanted to watch it. So I think now that maybe people who don't want to see me are seeing my stuff, I just need to remind myself that, like, that's not.

They're not your audience. That's not my audience. Not everyone is going to be your audience. such a people pleaser. Like, it is, that's been the hardest thing for me. Yeah. I am as well. Wanting desperately to have everyone like what I do and, and it's just not possible.

It's horrible. It's just not possible. It's not possible. I mean, there's, did you ever see title show? Do you know the show title show? It's probably musical. There's this great song in it called, I'd rather be, let me see if I get this right, I'd rather be nine people's favorite thing than 100 people.

nine favorite thing. Oh, interesting. And I love that thought. Like, ultimately, yes, I would like, I'd rather be nine people's favorite thing. But it is also hard for me to not be 100 people's night favorite thing or even. You know what? I remind myself how many people in this world must Taylor Swift is my, like, favorite person in the entire world. She is my North Star, my everything, my Bible.

I literally remind myself the shit she's put, had to deal with. and how many people don't like her and then how many people love her. And you just have to like remind yourself of that. It's like, well, I love her despite some people not liking her. Right. I don't know.

It's like a weird, I like honestly like my North Star. Oh, I want to know about there's something, you were developing something with Hulu. Yes, I am. Is this something you're talking about now? I'm developing a show with Lulu. Paul Burganti is directing.

Genevieve-Vinellio is writing. And Amy Solomon and Alecberg are producer and then Susanna Mocko's at Hulu is like helping us develop it and she's like leading the charge on that and it's just like I feel like I have I'm surrounded by such all stars so I feel really good and really happy about it and really excited is it what's it's it gonna be based on your life it's like gay Dave have you ever seen Dave yes like gay Dave yeah I love that yeah and um do you feel I mean like I'm very like a damn I'm glad he's a very close friend of mine.

Like, I'm so inspired by his ability to take an idea. Like, he's, you know, I think he's one of our greatest creators right now. I think I love everything he's doing. I mean, and I think that he takes a lot of, like, what happens to his, you know, obviously what happens in his real life, but it, like, uses it in his art. And he, I just find him to be wildly creative. Do you feel like creatively, it's like that's where, that's your sweet spot? is like, you want to like...

Myself. Making fun of myself, taking stuff that happens to me and making it. Yeah. And so, yeah, I do. That's where I feel like I... That's why the skits did so well.

It was, like, based on me and my friends. Yeah. Every interaction. The reason they were laughing so hard is because they knew, like, I was making very niche references to our friend group and stuff we talk, how the way we talk,

the way we deal with situations. Like, it all ties back to, like, making fun of myself and ourselves. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For me, at least. Yeah. Yeah.

The Netflix deal was so exciting because that was sort of like one of the first podcast that Netflix, you know, started to air. I mean, so you're a bit of a trailblazer in that way. Oh, well, I don't feel that way, but thank you. I think so. It's very kind. But I, yeah, the Netflix really solidified made me feel good. It made me feel proud of, like, you know, I felt like I've done something, like, correct.

If I wanted, like, a streamer, like, Netflix wanted it. But, I mean, I'm confronted with this a bit, even with, you know, having a few cameras. Like, now we're putting this on, you know, streaming services. But, like, you know, people, when they do a podcast, like, the allure of a podcast just to be the fact that, like, people could not, you know, have to get dressed up or put on makeup. Yeah. Or you could get the campant list. Like, it'd be fine. And now, you know, it's literally on Netflix.

So is that something that, have you, like, had me pushed back from people? I never push back with anyone on anything, usually. So if they want to show up in a ball gown, they'll show up in ball gown, if they want to show up in sweats, I show up in sweats, like, there's not much thought behind that. It's mostly like the day comes,

they show up, we do it, and call it a day. Yeah, yeah. You know? I don't really think about, like, what the other person is going to wear at that. Sometimes they'll bring glam, sometimes they won't bring glam.

Like, you know, It really just depends on the person. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I do want to ask about hacks. Oh, please. It's coming to an end. I know. I know.

What an incredible thing to be a part of that. I mean, it's such a great show. And, like, I mean, I, Gene Smart is one of those people that I've absolutely adored for so long. It's like, you know, I mean, I used to watch Designing Women, which was on before you were born. Like, she is such an icon. First of all, how did you get,

involved that show. I was, I watched it and I was obsessed. And I was like, if I, if there's any way it could be a part of the show, I would die to be a part of the show.

When I auditioned for a character and I didn't get it. And then I got offered the part that I ended up playing. And I think it was because I didn't get that first role. And I was like, okay, well, I'm just going to go back to then what I do, what I know I can make people laugh with is doing skin.

So I It was a bunch of skits that weekend that I heard no, and I think someone made it to the writer's room, I think. Oh, really? And I think that's how I got that role. Do you think, first of all, do you audition for a lot of things? Do you think you're a good auditioner? No.

I'm a bad auditioner, but I do audition when I can't. No, I'm, I'm obsessed with hacks. I'm so excited to finish it. I know. I'm sad. Also, I feel like that they've had, they've really had their pulse on, like, or their finger on the pulse of, like, what's happening in, you know, just like having Megan, Megan on the time.

Yeah, mixed all. Yeah. Next alter. Have you gotten into her stuff? I used to watch her on Twitter. Instagram and Twitter. Yeah. Yeah.

I think she's so esoteric and strange. She's brilliant. She's brilliant. She is one of the funniest people. She is the funniest person out there right now. Yeah. She makes me cackle, cackle. Yeah.

She's so brave in her comedy in ways that I just don't know if I would ever be. And I'm just very fascinated by people. are willing to go there in that way. She goes there. She does, yeah. And she's so awesome. How's he going here? Good?

Good. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Can I think something? Yeah, please. Yeah, any guess. I feel like I already know your answer.

Well, who? If I asked you if there was any guess that you were nervous about it. Highley Jenner. Who? Helly Jenner. Oh, really? Highley Jenner. Why?

Because she's the coolest girl in the world. But I listened to part of that in Rio. I feel like you. you guys were so... Yes, that's why she's the coolest girl in the world! She, like, immediately, I've seen like, because we're best friends. Yes, that's why she is the coolest girl in the world.

So when you are nervous about talking to someone like that, and they come in with that energy, and she just seemed like she was so excited to be dead with you. Is that... Are you immediately, like, put an ease, or do you spend the next hour? We drank, so I was, like, very put at ease through that. Right. Yeah.

And just, like, her, as a person, she's funny, she's smart, she's cool. she's her. Yeah. Kylie is her. Yeah. Yeah. She's her. I think she's pretty awesome, too.

I'm thrilled that you said yes to this. Oh my God, I'm so happy to be here. This was so fun. I want to, if you ever need me to come onto your podcast. Yes, I will let you know. Did I just kick you? I'm sorry. We're playing footsie.

I'm sorry. We are playing footsie. I'm so sorry. Oh, this will, okay, speaking of, are we dating? What's happening? I'm trying to, but you know, it's summer.

So we'll see. where what summer brings me. Okay, all right. All right. Well, I hope you, I wish you a summer of, uh, Flirty Girl summer.

Yeah, I want to be dirty. I want to be drinking. I want to be outside. I want to be in Europe. I want to do it all. Thanks for doing this, buddy.

I appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Yeah, of course. This episode of Dinners on Me was recorded at Sonio Tescano in Santa Monica,

California. Next week on Dinners on Me, you know her from Gray's Anatomy, killing Eve, and she's currently starring in London in the misanthrope. It's the incredible Sandra O. We talk about behind-the-scenes hijinks doing Shakespeare in the park last summer, her time at the National Theater, and what she's most proud of in her career. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can

download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinner's On Me Plus. As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, they'll also be able to listen completely ad free. Just click try free at the top of the Dinners On Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Dinners On Me is a production of Sony music entertainment and a kid named

Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcalf. Sam Bear engineered this episode. Hans Dale She composed our theme music.

Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tamika Balance Kalasni and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.