Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - Jesse Williams

Episode Date: May 23, 2023

Grey’s Anatomy star and my Take Me Out co-star Jesse Williams joins me at Pijja Palace, an Indian American sports bar in L.A.’s hip Silver Lake neighborhood. Over green chutney pizza, wings and soft serve – we dig into our relationships with our fathers, his childhood moving place to place, and we share some humiliating early career stories. Join us! Want next week’s episode now? Subscribe to Dinner’s on Me PLUS. As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, but you’ll also be able to listen completely ad-free! Just click “Try Free” at the top of the Dinner’s on Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. A Sony Music Entertainment & A Kid Named Beckett production. To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [e-mail] Find out more about other podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, it's Jesse. Today on the show, another Jesse, Hector Jesse Williams. We'll talk about Broadway, our fathers, and uh, share some embarrassing moments. And about like five or six blocks in, I look down, and the red sauce and the tahini cream sauce had been pouring from my wrist, from my sandwich, down my pant leg of my khakis, all the way down my leg. You're gonna wanna stick around for this.

[♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ This episode is sponsored by Airbnb. Maybe you've stayed in an Airbnb before and thought to yourself, hmm, this actually seems pretty doable. Maybe my place could be an Airbnb. Maybe you've stayed in an Airbnb before and thought to yourself, hmm, this actually seems pretty doable. Maybe my place could be an Airbnb. It could be as simple as starting with a spare room or your whole place when you're away. Find out how much your place is worth at Airbnb.com slash host. I got to know Jesse working together on the Broadway play Take Me Out. I got to know Jesse working together on the Broadway play Take Me Out. It was his first time performing on Broadway and of course being the tremendous actor that

he is, he landed the lead role of Darren Limming. Darren is a biracial gay, major league baseball player who comes out and in the process learns a lot about homophobia and racism amongst his teammates. It's been one of my favorite plays forever, and I was thrilled to get the opportunity to play Mason Marsak, who plays Darren's gay business manager. So I mentioned that long preamble to get where we are today. We're at Peja Palace, an Indian American sports bar in Silver Lake. What's your name? an Indian-American sports bar in Silver Lake. Think sports bar favorites like wings and pizza,

but with an Indian-American twist. This spot has been booked solid since it opened in May of last year and I have been dying to try it. Dibs on the green chutney pizza. I thought it would be a fun place to take Jesse because he's a curious guy who likes to try new things. Plus, there's these sporty touches, like the leather stitching reminiscent of a baseball glove, or the old-school lightboxes that show the names of players that are actually playing

in the game seen on the TVs around the restaurant. It's also perfect for people like me who let's just say are sports adjacent. Like, I can appreciate a home run, but I'm coming for the food and the calming postmodern pastel decor. This is Dinners on Me and I'm Your Host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Now let's get to our interview with

Grey's Anatomy Star and the EP of the Oscar-winning short film Two Distance Strangers, Jesse Williams. So wait, the last time we saw each other was after our last performance of Take Me Out. Wow. Right, how you feeling? I know, I was going to ask you how you're feeling. I feel fine.

Yeah. I'm curious to hear how the experience was for you. Now the has some perspective and you're away from it now. What first comes to mind when you ask that is how insanely privileged I've been because the play was so good and was reviewed so well and houses were full and all that stuff. Like, it was such a raging success that I don't think I was confronted with the temptation of feeling ragingly insecure at all the turns and forks in the road that could be there, that could befall us.

Because I do have, I certainly had flickers of Imposter Syndrome, I absolutely had nerves early on. And sometimes if you just hear a remark or ask, yes, somebody what they thought about the play and they kind of give a vague, a two-sponsed response. There's bad backstage. Yeah, you start like getting in my head a little bit, or should I change that? Have I been doing that wrong? Is that... But those are all pretty brief. I felt really calm and confident, I mean, to the point where I wouldn't even care if I knew my lines are not.

Like, I came in off-book because I was so nervous. I'm an asshole. I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted He would always learn all this lies. Because then you can play immediately. And I also had big long speech just so I was nervous about learning those. So I came in, I'm gonna say like 85% off book. And I remember you like, you were like, oh, yeah, that shocked you.

Yes, it threw me off. Now that I remember, when we first started that, I was coming off of I I think, directing grays and acting in two, so I'm a Tania said, I would just overwhelm. I didn't have the bandwidth to also be downloading the entire play, so I was insecure about just being unprepared.

I was, by my own standard, I was not happy with that. Yeah, go ahead. Thank you. Thank you. Welcome to Pigeon Palace. My name is Suzanne. Let me know if you'd visit me in anything at all. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Welcome to Pigeon Palace. Minus Suzanne, let me know if you have anything at all. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Keep that in. So, we'll see. Yeah, it's part of it. Okay, good. I remember looking at your Instagram and seeing that you were directing Grayson Adam. I think I've been asked, was like, how did you possibly have bandwidth for that? Yeah, yeah.

Go ahead, Norris. You've been to Pigeon Palace before? No, this is my first time. Our first time. So, we are basically an Indian-American sports bar. We've kind of put our own spin on fusion and Italian deliciousness. Some of the things you've probably heard about are our Marlaya Rigatoni. It's a vodka cream to made and sauce with macellothramin. Yes. We have our green chutney pizza that's on Instagram everywhere. Green mint cilantro chutney on top of our signature blend of mozzarella

termijon. I'll show you guys. We really really delicious wings. I know you guys have heard about them. And yeah, if you have any questions, just let me know. Yeah, that's all amazing. I'm very hungry. Can we do all of that that you just said? Yes, I'll put it in the pizza. The wings, the pasta, the pizza. The wings, the pasta, the pizza. Great.

Yeah. Are you going to drink for you guys? I'll be okay with that. Yeah, I'm okay with it. Do you have any greater non-alcoholic options? I like ginger and I don't want alcohol and I don't want sweet. You might really like the Sesperola. It's a house made Sesperola.

I do like Sesperola. That sounds perfect. Okay, perfect. Thank you so much. Make me one too. Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you guys very much.

Thank you. What are we? No, but the rehearsal process. That's perfect. Yeah. Yeah, I, it was, I mean, I don't know if you find it this way too, like it's more daunting in the run-up and in the setup and getting everything in its place,

but then it's kind of like riding a bike once you start grooving, have you found that in your first couple episodes of this? Yeah, for sure. I mean, I get nervous before every single one of them and then like five minutes in, I kind of forget that I was nervous. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think that I can relate to that. So I don't know. I still found ways to trick myself into getting a little nervous, even in the last couple months. I think in the same way because it's really ending. If I haven't tried something yet, I better try it now, like getting on my line trade. I really had nerves come up.

I had some bonders towards the end. No, listen. So, Jesse did know his lines. I will say that. They just weren't always in the right order. But it always made sense. It's a long troche, right? Market badges. Thank you so much. Do you think that she would do theater again? I mean, I feel like what we had was a

very blessed experience and there'll be nothing like that. I mean, I've done, been doing theater for 20 years and thank you. I have never had an experience as positive as that. I mean, I've done things that I've loved very much, but with that sort of amount of like critical love and just camaraderie between the cast and the, it's going to be hard to top. Right. So you're trying to discourage me from trying it again. No, I don't think you should do it. I think you should just like that, that be your small song.

No, when to get out. Yeah, get out now. I would, I would be open to doing it again in a limited way years from now. I'm thrilled that I got to kind of watch you create that character up close and be a part of that process with you. It's a sweet, sweet privilege. You know the feeling as mutual as you remember early on how in all I was of you, I'd be standing there guys just watching Jesse. I was trying to lead you to this.

I was trying to lead you to this. And I would just forget my, this I would just forget that I was in the play. I was just watching. I was just standing there you to this. I was trying to lead you to say something about this. And I would just, forget my, this, I would just forget that I was in the play. I was just watching. I was just standing there like a dork, smiling at him 10 feet, five feet away and I was like, no, it's your line, idiot. Yeah. Early on, it just, it was really, really magic.

The whole time. Yeah. It was pretty special. I always do research on all of the people I'm sitting down with, even though I've know all of them. But you have more nooks and crannies in your research that I didn't know about or that I didn't have as much knowledge about. It seems that you, I mean, I have met your parents. I know that they instilled a lot of who you are in a very early age, especially with your activism and being socially aware and just speaking up for people.

And the research I did, you did say that was kind of hard for you as a kid. You know, I think a lot of people can relate to things you resent early on as a young person you come to appreciate later, about a teacher, a mentor, a coach, a student, a sibling. And in my case, that was especially the case with my dad. He was very serious. Everything was important and education and respect for yourself and doing your research and being politically aware and having an accountability and responsibility to the collective was always just drilled into me and that's not fun. Right.

And you're five, seven, or eight, or ten, or twelve. And it was always a reality check. And then as you hit a corner in your teenage years, you realize all of the interesting things you know or are saying are Pareding him right, you know like all these tools that I were stuffed in my toolbox That I was lugging around that were a heavy pain in the ass are now really coming in handy Yeah, and really preparing me to be able to Navigate and very different spaces. I lived in very different worlds and and kept moving and shifting and changing so I had to be able to kind of code switch and learn how to navigate and keep my head above water. And he was all about preparation for that.

So you're not having to get ready later and be surprised later. And I'm sure that moving around, you know, especially as a kid, when your kid's thrive on stability that had to have been difficult. It was an adventure that was really informative. Like I, which sounds like a very adult thing to say in retrospect, but I even valued it then, like, oh, other than the hood in Chicago

and the 80s during the crack epidemic, you know. It was very... I have your old piano and blues. They are marinated in yogurt, English mustard, and I don't know if they're not. Oh my God. Just a drizzle of honey and that's incredibly French. Thank you so much, gorgeous. This is all starting very well. yogurt, English mustard and buttermilk. Oh my god. For Scottish, just to drizzle honey, we've got some curly French.

Wow. Thank you so much, gorgeous. This is all starting very well. For lips, that's very much fun. I don't want to taste this place for so long. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. Jesse and I dig more into his childhood and how it was a big cultural shift for him

when they moved to suburban Massachusetts. Okay, BRB. When the weather changes and the evening's heat up, you change your sheets. I mean, slumber should be relaxing, not sweaty. And Brooklyn Inn is here to help. Their crisp, classic, percale weave will cool you right off. Or try their best-selling butter smooth Luxe Satine sheets. Brooklyn was founded by husband and wife duo Rich and Vicki in 2014 and their mission is to Provide their customers with hotel quality luxury betting at a fair price. Both Wirecutter and Goodhouse keeping agree that Brooklyn and Sheets are hard to beat. So shop and store or online at www.brooklinon.com today to give yourself the cooling sleep you

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Both Wirecutter and Goodhouse keeping agree that Brooklyn and Sheets are hard to beat. So shop and store or online at www.brooklinon.com today to give yourself the cooling sleep you deserve this summer. Use promo code dinners for $20 off on your online purchase of $100 or more plus free shipping on www.brooklinon.com. Brooklyn and dot com. That's B-R-O-O-K-L-I-N-E-N dot C-O-M. Use promo code dinners for $20 off plus free shipping. And we're back with Jesse Williams. We were just talking about how moving a lot as a kid taught him to code switch and adapt quickly. Yeah, so switching communities and schools and households and stuff was not something I was excited about beforehand, but they all came with their gifts and curses.

Moving to the suburbs got me called a lot of racist names really quickly, but I also could run around and play and there was grass and there weren't gunshots and I wasn't at risk of getting killed. But it was, so I had some freedom, but it also psychologically and socially was really destructive and unpleasant, but that taught you a lot about people. You could trust, and what friendship is, and who can be reliable, and how to be there for your siblings and stuff. So there were things that I came to appreciate pretty quickly, and that's that temptation.

Do you, you know, candy's bad for you, but it also tastes great. Like, you know, you get to run around and play, but you're gonna have to realize that they're not, these, those three people are not really your friends, but they do have a psychogenesis and cable and a basketball court, and that's a fun thing to do. So I'll have to make that trade. I don't have any other trade to make besides sitting in my little room.

Um, here, what was your circle of friends like when you were younger? It was awesome. We were like the goonies. We had a rule of six or seven of us. We rode our bikes everywhere. circle of friends like when you were younger. It was awesome. We were like the goonies. We had a rule of six or seven of us. We rode our bikes everywhere. We played sports, we played hide and seek. We just played video games.

We were, and this was, again, this is, we grew up in an era where you got in play all day. You come home and the streetlights come on. You know, like we weren't helicoptered in the way that's fashionable now. So it was really fun. And you get bumps and bruises and you fall down, you get in fights and we were really proud to be from Chicago.

We had the bulls were getting really good. We had baseball games, I play baseball all the time. It was a really wonderful childhood and then moving to the suburbs. It was a little different. That was the first time I had friends who had like, you could play in their houses. We were all crammed in apartments and small houses

with a lot of kids in Chicago, but in Massachusetts, these kids had finished basements and their own room and a TV in their room, a phone. Yeah, cable, like their parents weren't home. It's like in the house with a kid where like there's like a snack drawer, like all these like shirt-sertles. in the house with the kid where like there's like a snack drawer. Yeah. And you can see the basement all night and a parent never comes down. You could be doing whatever we were.

Smoke and weed and doing things we shouldn't have been doing. Because there's no supervision whatsoever. And you know, kids were criminals. We're stealing things and doing drugs and stuff. But it was all in this. There was a big net around their world. You can't fall far, and that was really enlightening. Like, oh, this is how it works.

And the school was fine. And my in Chicago, I was ahead in two grades in all non-math classes. I had to get up and leave third grade to go to fifth grade for history and for English and language arts. Then I moved to this suburb and I was at my proper grade level. Oh, interesting. So it was like, why is that?

So what about everybody I just left? They're just, so it's not me, it's the school system. Right. Because I'm not two grades ahead of my peers here in who I probably wasn't there either. But like so it's just we're just gonna leave of them back there in this shitty school where it's okay that they're failing. We also had 40, 50 kids in my classes in Chicago. I had, my second grade was also third grade.

We literally had one teacher and 55 kids in one classroom. And she would say, and they're taught, teach second grade, while the third grade is weighted, and then step two steps to the left, and she'd say, yeah, totally crammed into these kind of cages. So it was just a real interesting look into a microcosm of what the country, how it works and so many things that are disguised as meritocracy or not meritocracy.

Their situation, it's about the situation and the privileges that come with it. And even at an early age, I know you had the, certainly the encouragement from your parents to speak up and to look after people. I read it about the story where one of the kids in your school was called the N word. And like all the other kids knew like, oh, we gotta go find Jesse Williams.

Cause he's gonna fix this. He's gonna stand up for this kid. And you did. And this was at a Quaker school where violence is not, you know, accepted it all. And you got into trouble and you had to speak in front of a court system. At that school, we had a judiciary committee. So any matter of discipline, disciplinary action, you have to represent yourself in a trial and the jury is half students, half faculty. So students can be nominated and elected

to be part of the judiciary committee. I think I'm saying, I think that's what the title of the committee was. Yeah, so that was my first run-in with that. This is what really impressed me about the stories. You had the courage and sort of the faith in yourself to challenge them because you said, I should not be on trial, you don't have a single person of color on this jury. You ended up using this moment that this point in your childhood in front of the group of people

to actually change that system and you ended up becoming part of I became the first Black person the first non-white person. I was a student. I was a member of the judiciary committee. I mean how do you yeah What age were you when this last 15? I mean, I was a sophomore Probably yeah, may be a junior, but I don't think so. I don't think that the courage to. I had it too. I mean, it wasn't out of nowhere, right? A, my parents, my dad especially,

was very forceful about being able to defend yourself and being able to have a sense of situational awareness. So you're not stunned and surprised by the most predictable behaviors, none to man. And I'm, you know, I'm biracial. Half my family's white, half my family's black. I lived in very poor urban areas, but I sail in the summers in Maine.

I know how to live. I've kind of speak those languages. So I get a sense of casual, passive, direct, aggressive discrimination. And so I got my hours in. I got my black whale 10,000 hours of racism in by then and then moving to this, you know, this kind of suburb of entitled not quite middle class or aspirationally middle class people that are bitter and don't really like

their lives and pass that bitterness down to their kids. That was my junior high school experience. So by the time I got to the halls of you know, free, ideally grooming schools, essentially what it was, or what it is. It wasn't my first time coming up against it and in order to go into a school like that, you're damn sure I got many of Pep talk about understand where you're going and understand you need to. Who would give you those Pep talk? My father. Do you feel like lessons that you're damn sure I got many of Pep talk about understand where you're going and understand you need to. Who would give you those Pep talk? My father.

Do you feel like lessons that you're specifically, I guess your father instilled in you as a father now yourself? I mean, how, does it trickle down? Is it, like, how do you talk to your kids about things like this in today's age? I do. But they're young, as you know, like as young parents of young kids,

you're trying to find what's the right, what's age appropriate? Sure. Is this movie age appropriate? Is this conversation age appropriate? You want to have them prepared, but not scare them and take the joy out of nice moments and let them learn lessons for themselves. So yeah, I'm definitely, you know, my kids are nine and seven

and they're in elementary school, so we're letting them figure it out and so much of it is about their home life too. And your daughter is, I think, at an age now, where she can sort of sense what's going on in the world, though, I mean, you know, we've, the old one. Terrible. My daughter is highly- world though. I mean, you know, we've... Terrible. My daughter's police brutality.

And like, I just know. I'm emotionally intelligent. I mean, she's very absorbing. Absolutely. And she'll cover for you. Like, she tries to protect adults from themselves. She's a bit of a sucessary. Or it's pretty creepy.

But yeah, yeah, they can, and they ask questions, or I'll ask them, that's interpret current events. That's how I learned, it's not, you know current events. That's how I learned. It's not you know school. It's it's um how are we interpreting what's happening around you and getting some historical context for what's happening around you? Why is it called that? What's the etymology of that word and name? What does that mean? Mm-hmm. Just thinking you know like our older son is it could be three in July and of course these are not questions he's asking now, but we are anticipating the time when he's like, well, what's a mom?

And like, why don't I have one? And he was aware what was going on now with just the rights of the LGBTQ community. I don't want him to feel scared for his dad. You know? How do we have those conversations with these kids? And the world's a pretty scary place right now, and it's just, at some point, obviously not now,

he's too young, but there has to be a point where we come to a consensus on how we're going to have those conversations with them. It's just, I think you're... It's also, we don't have to come up with the answer and then deliver it. It's a gradual kind of trickling out process and feeling. It's funny, you say that because I think this morning, I've taken them to school, Sadie was describing her a friend or classmate or teammate.

And she said, oh yeah, you know, they're coming over. You know, I think you might know her mom or mom's name. So-and-so, and her dad is sometimes at the games. They're divorced like us. And she has a mom and a dad. Because I think I said, I think I actually said, oh, I don't know if I know her. And have I seen her, does she have a dad

or does she have another mom or a dad? Because several of her friends have two moms, are two dads or one of either. And it was just, I just noticed. And it's like how easy and light all of that just getting specific was to try to track somebody, okay, got it. And that's certainly different than it was when we were kids.

Oh, for sure. For sure. I mean, I find myself slipping up more, especially with like pro nouns, for example, where my friends who have kids like they talk, it slips off their tongue so easily, they're so good with it. Which is, you know, wildly encouraging. Right. I think obviously, you know, in that case, the future's in good hands with those people, with these kids. But yeah, it's a terrifying time to raise kids right now. And I'm just interested in anyone's perspective

when they have children around my kids age. I know for you, you produce such a brilliant film, I told you after I saw it, but two distant strangers, which went an Oscar for Best Live Action Short. And it obviously was in response to police brutality and George Floyd and Breonna Taylor. It gets homey, very, very much. Oh, my gosh.

It made a princess. And so, space is tap into chives, olive oil, and Parmesan cheese. This mashup of Indian and Italian is... I'm losing my mind. It's so great. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. We dig more into Jesse's activism. I also ask him about that BET speech that went viral and how it had impacted him.

Okay, BRB. When the weather changes and the evening's heat up, you change your sheets. I mean, Slumber should be relaxing, not sweaty. And Brooklyn is here to help. Their crisp, classic percale weave will cool you right off. Or try their best-selling buttery, smooth, luxe-satine sheets. Brooklyn was founded by husband and wife duo Rich and Vicki in 2014. And their mission is to provide their customers with hotel quality luxury betting at a fair price.

Both Wirecutter and Goodhouse keeping agree that Brooklyn and Sheets are hard to beat. So shop and store or online at www.brooklinin.com today to give yourself the cooling sleep you deserve this summer. Use promo code dinners for $20 off on your online purchase of $100 or more plus free shipping on Brooklyn and dot com. That's BROKLIN.COM use promo code dinners for $20 off plus free shipping. The other day I made one of my go-to recipes for my cookbook, my beef and pickle tacos, they're delicious, a summer favorite in the Mekita Ferguson household. The ground beef was already in my fridge, having arrived on my doorstep from butcher box. Butcher box makes it so easy for me to plan recipes for the week with high quality meat

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Butcherbox is giving us a special deal. Sign up today at butcherbox.com slash dinners and use code dinners to get New York strips for a year. And we're back with Jesse Williams. We were just talking about that film he co-produced, the 2021 Oscar-winning short, two-distance strangers, which you can stream on Netflix, by the way. I love watching We Carves, by the way. I love eating cards. I've been here. I've been here.

Three years just watching you, like a bird, a void. Yeah. Tiptoe around it. No. since Jesse. I've been eating pizza pasta It was also like the last three weeks of the playoffs. I fuck it. I went to Joe's pizza Three out of four nights in a row like the last week. Oh, yeah, it was over I've been bagels. I'm eating bagels all the time now. I'm back to my normal self It's it's it's quite a triumph. I'm meeting bagels all the time, now I'm back to my normal self. It's quite a triumph, I'm gonna say. Yeah, because I'm there.

But yeah, doing, you know, that film was certainly a, I think it felt topical for all those reasons that you mentioned, those events of the time. But it was also just a response to a lifetime. Many lifetimes, the back people feeling like, you keep moving the goalpost. Do this, dress this way, say this, ask, don't ask. Put your hands up, don't put your hands up.

It's like getting orders from police, whichever person, certainly every black maleist had, confusing absurd orders yelled at you with a gun pointer in your fucking face. Hands up, open the door, give me your wallet, hands up. Like, that happened when I was 14. Like that happens to so many of us, and it's absolutely terrifying.

And so what if we kept trying everything to see if we can get to an answer? Oh, there's no answer, because you don't actually know what you want. The point is you need to have exert power. And it's under the guise of panic and somehow you're both the villain and the victim at the same time.

This film, you can watch on Netflix. And it's a guy who's coming home from a one night stand, or maybe it's not a one night stand, but it's his girl's house. And he's just trying to get home and feed his dog. Or let his dog out. And he is murdered by a cop. And then it's like a groundhog day thing,

where every time he's killed, he wakes up with... Just shot at it. And he gets another shot this day, and he can't escape being killed again. And it's like how many different ways can this guy be killed? You know, is someone who viewed it, is a consumer of this movie, is someone who's white. It gave me a lot of anxiety.

And I think that's what's so brilliant about it. It puts anyone who watches it in the shoes of this person because you just want him to make it through the day. Yeah. And it also explores, it is an unfair standard to expect us to be perfect in moments of stress and strain. 100%. If you had just what you try it, you try to do the thing that would be ideal to do, fearing for your life, and an established pattern of hostility. Okay. Well, and we all have that of hostility. Like, okay, well,

and we all have that feeling of walking away from a conflict and argument with a classmate or a partner or a friend or, you know, hanging up, oh, I should've said this. So, what if I said this afterwards, we've all done that. Kind of like auditions, I used to say in New York, like, your best audition is on the train ride home.

That's right, yeah, why would we go to the beach? Why would I say it like this? I mean, I wouldn't be a shitty modern family. I would drive home and be like, oh, no, I wouldn't be a shitty modern family. I would drive home and be like, oh no, I did that scene completely wrong. Yeah, yeah. Which was also the beauty of theater, which is obvious to many,

but was something I had to learn. I can do it tomorrow. Not squeezing so damn tight. But yeah, so that was certainly a part of the impetus for building out to this stranger's give people a little taste of what that's like. Yeah, really, it's just very well done. and I can't recommend it enough for anyone who's listening.

You know, my consciousness of you parked up when you gave that wonderful speech, the BET awards, and I know that for so many people, that's sort of like the defining moment of you. And in listening to a podcast you did, the accidental activist, I found it so interesting. When you kind of admitted that was not, is defining of a moment for you as it was for almost everyone who had consumed it. It was in a season where I had,

we're a series of years where I had been saying many of the same things on news, on CNN and MSNBC and live in Ferguson and things like that. So I was just being consistent and being myself. I think in the same way, spontaneity and freshness again, kind of like a theater or other elements of like when you have to perform, if you get ahead of yourself, then by definition you're not being present. And I'm really glad that I was just

present. And this was something that I noticed often when I'd be young and I'd be talking to the power online. And I used to use Twitter a lot back then and talk a lot of shit on that too. And it said people were surprised that I wasn't scared. Yeah, I have some kind of repercussion of some kind, and I just like, I don't, it's good of who? Some TV station, like, I think that's probably why made such a mark for folks is that because I was the, you know, nobody was doing that. It was also just the posture, I think, that just through, oh, we don't do that here, we play nice.

And this is a fucking emergency. How is playing nice got you? You know, so I think all of that kind of color and continues to color that kind of what's become a bit of a mark in history. Well, I mean, what you just said not being scared of it is what I found so inspiring because I could tell you weren't.

And I've read it again. I've read that speech many times. And I do, I kind of feel like it's gonna go down as like one of the great civil rights speeches. I draw inspiration from that because when I get up and speak for classes, I care deeply about it. I try and, you know, bring that same sort of conviction,

passion, eloquency. And it was just, it was a perfect kind of marriage of all those things. And I know that your parents were there in that room. Yeah, I made sure. I do remember what they said to you afterwards. Yeah, my parents are not a few people. Yeah. And they were they I'm sure in some way communicated that they were proud or approving.

Mm-hmm. And in their way that was as loud as some big, some other, you know, your mom might be big and exuberant and demonstrative in her love and pride. Our family doesn't really do that. Or a little more like, particularly, the world of entertainment is not something that a family is very familiar with. Like, if it was I could, if I was getting my PhD, my dad would be very impressed. But this is, but they were certainly proud.

I could feel that. I don't, that might just be with a side hug or like, I'm sure that they said to me that they were proud. But yeah, it takes a different form with all those people and to feel the response that speech generated, it must have moved your front. I'm certain it did. I'm certain it did.

And there's no mystery about it. It's just not, we just don't articulate it in the same way. Yeah. I do know that your mom was incredibly proud of your performance after I talked to her after giving me out. And she was, she's increasingly, she's got a little more communicative about those things. And they're both so supportive.

And what this show, this run we just did on Broadway, is a real hinge point, I think, for us, A being around each other and supporting each other in a new way. Mind to your families on the East Coast. I mean, only one west of the Mississippi, that's still true That is true. Just going to have a big family

So I'm not sure that's accurate. So don't get an email from my second cousins roommate You know and I've been gone since 2009. Yeah, so my entire family is east. Oh wow Amazing, thank you. I'm really trying to pace myself. Food is outstanding and rich. So, you know, that you get into that dynamic where, you see your family on the holidays and you see 30 people at a time and you try to get some little small talk with six of them

and then you're back on a plane. That's tough. So what was awesome about living back in New York, right, both my brothers are there, my niece and nephew, my sister-in-law, support sister. You know, and my parents could come down and just stay for a week.

It happened several times. They just come to stay for a week, see the show a few times, bring some friends, and we got to really just have that in between time of just spending a regular Wednesday together, and not being an event. Right. And so in those moments, that's when that kind of love and support is communicated. And a lot of that has to do with, I think, you learn as, I don't know about you, but

like as an adult son, right? You don't child. You're still there child, but you're an adult, and now we have kids of our own. It's really easy, probably particularly as men with our fathers to still default into the small boy. 100%. Right? Because you were gonna say to your dad, and then, yeah, did you say it?

And we'll know, I'll say it next time. Yeah. Yeah, these things are hard, and you plan for it, and you plan for it, and you don't. And I have, with the help of therapy and stuff in the last couple of years, like gotten better as both my brothers have as well, gotten better about saying what we mean and saying what we need and articulating

what we want and what we hope for, what we miss and saying I love you and things like that. Yeah, yeah. Just in my dad just came to visit. He came to visit my kids back at Insulven and he stayed with me. We had a great time and we were up in my office. I was like, oh, I'm gonna show him by Tony Award. So I pulled it down, I handed it to him and he was looking at him and goes, what is this?

And he knew I won a Tony Award, obviously. But I don't think he recognized that. He was actually holding one. And my heart broke a little bit. Because it was like, I was also that kid growing up where I was one watching the Tony Awards or on the kitchen table. It was the was like, I was also that kid growing up where I was one watching the Tony Awards or on the kitchen table. It was the only TV that I was allowed to watch it on

because they were watching a game on the big TV. So I had the little crappy TV, like the kitchen table, watching the Tony Awards, watching the little performances on this tiny little color TV. And so it sort of brought me back to that moment of like, oh, this is something I really, that means something to me that maybe doesn't mean

as much to you, which is fine. It's okay. But it took me right back to being a kid, and I didn't say anything. But I told him, it's the Tony Warden, you know, I know he was very proud. I thanked him on my speech when I was, so I know he knows that I appreciate everything

he's done for me too. but there was just that brief moment where it's like, I just wish he would have like, pretended to maybe know what it was or like, ordered it differently or just like, not have said anything and let me tell him, like it's not stopped the flow of exchange. Yes, yes, mm-hmm, God. Yeah, it was, it was an interesting moment.

These things are so loaded and we carry them with us. Yeah. Talk about like dissecting and thinking. I won't say overthinking, but examining the little every little flicker or flutter of our parents, particularly fathers. Yeah. What do they mean by that? What does that mean? Maybe nothing. Maybe nothing. But But we all make concessions to keep the flow going. Oh, that's so sweet. The kid's drawing isn't good, but we pretend it's good and we're encouraging. You don't have to always keep it real, so to speak. Yeah. No, I can certainly relate to that. There's many, many times as a film major, it was one of my majors in college, and being, I started to get interested

more in the arts as a young adult, my dad, and even starting as an actor. My dad kind of like, uh-huh. But you're gonna go to grad school, though, right? Like, yeah, something academic that's real. Right. Oh, okay, yeah, but that's like a hobby, right? Like you have a backup plan, right?

And that's a bit of the jam of the conundrum of being a parent who didn't come from a lot, sacrifice a lot, and you're the hope. Sure. Whether they would articulate it that way or not because it's precious. So they're not trying necessarily to take us down by saying you have a backup plan.

It doesn't necessarily, it's not, it doesn't, in necessarily to take us down by saying you were back up plan. Yeah. It doesn't necessarily, it's not, it doesn't intend to be a lack of faith in you, but I don't even know what that faith would be. Because I don't think your parents know a bunch of TV stars. Right, right, right, exactly. That's not a real thing. I don't, I got, it's not because I don't think you can do

something, but I don't, that's not a real thing. I don't know anybody that knows anybody that knows anybody that does that thing you're talking about. Yeah. So for you, I mean, like you also, your plan A was, was it a lawyer or a teacher? Is there a ride to journey or something I always knew I could be and wanted to be, and new head purpose and would be very satisfying. And I was beginning the process of like, I was going to start studying for the LSATs when I, to go to law school, when I decided to take a shot on acting. But that was kind of it.

It was something in education or public service or activism. But it wasn't, I didn't have a die hard, singular dream. I've never hitched my wagon into the phrase, I don't think I've ever set out loud. I'm a big anybody in our generation has set hitch to your wagon. No one says, um, I never did that with the wagon in the hitching.

To any dream or person, you know, I'm not a, I'm not a singular in thinking in that way. All right. Thank you so much. What is this? Green. Green shot me pizza. But also, like, just to circle back a little bit, like you were on something a television show that was so successful, continues to be so successful. And you're part of that legacy.

Slightly less successful since I left, I think. Yeah, you get that's getting all gone downhill. But I mean, what was your father's reaction? I mean, I, I, both your parents, really your father's reaction to you being on something that was so, so big. I mean, it was, it was, I remember early on, a lot of like, that's great. Are you gonna direct? It, you know, there's like,

there's something more, which I think is about control and ownership and using your brain, which is to somebody who doesn't do what we do, one might think gets more about emotions only or aesthetics or other things. I frankly did not have this struggle of five years of kicking around and not booking anything.

I kind of went right into work. And so they had something to show for it for them to kind of clear up the window of the mystery of what are they doing? How do you measure progress? Because you immediately had something to show for it. Yeah, like I'm going to try this thing and oh, I'm off set on the biggest show. And yeah, you know, I think the way I was expressed, it would be what it comes to mind is it'd be like, oh my woman at work says you love you on the show. You were great, could you sign something? Like, praise through association. Sure.

Right? Like someone so said it was really good. But then, him and my stepmother, Trisha watched him and so incredibly supportive. And I don't know, my dad also, I think a lot of people have this here, men generally aren't the greatest communicators. My dad, I get a lot of people have this, men generally aren't the greatest communicators. My dad, a lot of information through my stepmom.

A lot of love and support through her. It's for both of them. Sure. But she's like, yeah, she's one of the people. She's the one who's the kickstarted or delivered, or he'll deliver it via her. She just said, we have all these funny ways that are really adorable, actually.

Once I learned not to learn how to metabolize it, you know, not take it the wrong way. But yeah, being on show that big, it was very much proof of concept early on. So, and it also, it was more money that I made in a week than I made in a larger span of time so I could support them and not support them. But be able to afford to fly out.

I could afford to do some of the basic things. It's proof visually, but it's also, oh, he can be a big adult and actually pays on rent. And what do you think your parents are most proud of you for? Anything activism or academic related and being a good dad, that it's still me. That like my social conscience is still central to my work. It's not a diminished asterix in my work because that's them. It's a direct line to them. There isn't none of it exists without them. So

I'm I literally and visibly have them with me in my work. So I'd like to think they see that. I think it's very easy for us to disappear, and be really busy, and myself included. I have absolutely had swings out here on the other side of a monstrous country. Been isolated, and I'm not gonna make the trip back. You know, this other thing I want to do, and sort of peaks in valleys of family time

and family prioritization, and then I come home and that I love them, yeah, family connection. For sure. They don't give a shit about the credits or, you know, it's just like, are you a good person or are you smart? Right. My mom wants to talk politics, you know, like, can you keep up? Can you know what's going on in the world? Can we talk about that? Are you still present in the world? That's their metric. I don't know the piece of that pizza. That's a big winner.

It's so good. It's so spicy. I mean, it's like a cheese pizza with, and that's chutney sauce, really. It's not crazy. It's not a zany collision of flavors, I don't think, but also I think my palate is pre-... We're in the Indian...

Yeah, I've got this zany in the Indian. How you're in the Indian, the spice is going. It's really, it's pretty taco the way they've married those two cuisines. It's pretty awesome. Who to thunk it? Who to thunk it? I wish my wagon to this place. Oh, we didn't try this.

The masala topping. Is this more spicy? I can't, I'm not braving spicy. I think I have enough flavors. Yeah, there's a lot of flavor on there. I love spice. I had spice everything. My kids make fun of me because I had hot sauce on everything.

Yeah, you do. There's always hot sauce backstage. Just to make fun of me, because I really will sweat through it. I mean, I'll, because I love the way it tastes, but my body is like absolutely not. Please stop.

That is really funny. And it tells me to please stop. I like just completely sweating everywhere. I get bright red. Watching people sweat when they don't want to be sweating is not, never not. Not, it's happening to me right now. I don't worry.

Internally overwhelmed. But trying to be cool. No, no, it's cool. Is it ice? You mind if I have? I remember so many auditions that I ran to in New York City where I barely made it there. I was in the subway of the summer. You go in and you have that brief moment

before you go into an audition room and you're just trying to play it cool. And it was usually a musical theater audition. So I was like, having to get up and sing something. Oh, God. And just trying to play it cool. And it was usually like a musical theater audition. So I was like having to get up and sing something. And just trying to like calm yourself down and then like just sweat and then also like little beads of sweat coming out of your hair. And just trying to stay calm and like

to hope that they don't notice. And you know they do. Oh, it's the one. Like the backpacks sweat strip. Like the backpacks here. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. You're a little backpacks wet. Yeah. Air conditioning hits it.

Oh, did I tell you about one of my worst experiences? It wasn't really an audition, but I might have told you this. When I first moved to LA, someone was like, you should look into modeling. Did I tell you this? No. Like, you have an interesting look. You have red hair.

You're really light-skinned. Like, it's like, you know, I've like no eyebrows. I was just like, you know, you're exotic looking in a weird way. So I was like, okay, I'll look into that. And so I just started circling all the modeling agencies. I was like, I'm just gonna stop by these places and like drop off my head shot.

Yeah. So the day I decided to do this, because I was working like three jobs, and I only had one day off that week. And it was pouring rain, really windy. And I was like, oh, and I only had one day off that week and it was pouring rain really windy And I was like, oh whatever. This is the day. I blocked off to go do this. So I'm gonna do it I'm walking to the subway my umbrella immediately like turns inside out and like blows away And I have to throw it away have to run to the subway and I'm getting wet. It's like, okay

I feel like the universe this time. This is a bad idea, but I'm gonna go ahead and do it anyways so I start going to these modeling agencies and handing off my headshot. And I did about four or five of them, and they all had the same reaction. They looked at me like I was a crazy person and they took that headshot and they're like, okay, we'll pass this along.

You're also wet, I'm like a drag-old. Yeah, it didn't look great. The last place I went to, I get in the elevator and the door's closed and it's a mirrored door and I see myself for the first time. A piece of the umbrella that had broken apart is hanging off of my hair. Like part of the metal?

Like part of the vinyl? Not the vinyl, just like a piece of metal like that scrap metal, lightweight metal. Like, you know, it's a piece of metal, like that like scrap metal, lightweight metal, that like, you know, it's hanging off of my hair. And I had gone to all these places saying, hi, I'm interested in talking to someone about modeling, handing them a black and white head shot. Well, I have a piece of scrap metal in my hair.

Which it makes, yes, not easy to identify, but you look like you were just slept on a gray. I looked insane. Wow, that's fucking interesting. I didn't make it, once I saw that, I pushed the lobby button again. I was like, I'm not going up there. It's over.

That's the universe saying stop this. This is insane. But these people hadn't seen you yet. Those people had been, they never would. And I think it was like, I think it was like four months. Yeah, yeah, it was so huge. It was so huge. Like, I could have been here big time.

I could have been it. Who knows, anywhere. Oh my gosh. People asked what my worst audition story was big. I could have been it. Who knows? Oh my God. People ask what my worst audition story was. I was like, it's not technically an audition, but that would be it for sure. You know, they just ask you to do the silliest things. God auditioning.

People don't know. No, it's purifying. It's how many commercial auditions I had that were so humiliating. This was not audition, but you're running you're running around New York, the sure mind I was, I think I was still in college, maybe killing time before going to the Chinatown train back to Philly. Walking down Broadway, beautiful sunny day, I often ate at the falafel cart on Houston

and Broadway. And I did, I got a flaffle, I was eating it. And I was walking down, I felt like, like, against traffic, walking down Broadway. Beautiful day, seeing some cute girls, waving, listening to my music, feeling good, I'm gonna walk like five blocks to some store. And definitely was like waving waving to, you know, checking out girls and talking on the phone

and just kind of, just feeling myself. I had a soundtrack going. Yeah, yeah. Walking like five, six big blocks. And I'm wearing like khakis and some kind of shirt and a backpack. And people are kind of like, looking at me funny,

but I don't know if I'm kind of dancing with the music or what it is, but people kind of give looking at me funny, but I don't know if I'm kind of dancing with the music or what it is, but people kind of give me weird looks. And about like five or six blocks in, I look down and the red sauce and the tahini cream sauce had been pouring from my wrist, from my sandwich, down my pant leg of my khakis all the way down my leg, down my pant leg of my khakis,

all the way down my leg, and then the cuff of my khakis was scooped up, so it was pooling and sloshing off the side of my leg. I had this red mixed with white streaks all the way down, and it was pooling and slapping down into my sock. That's what everybody had been looking at the last week. And I was going to a casting or audition on Broadway. I was getting married with this massive confidence.

Yeah, I was totally, I've never, I felt like I had the Bee Gees playing, staying alive or some shit playing behind me or something. And I had to go into a casting before I had to catch the bus home. So I remember panicking, not knowing what to do. And yeah, yeah, yeah, hey. Oh wow, dessert. And cardamom topped with Oreo cookies. And you have each flip-multed chives,

an out-served ice cream. And some of the new piezo we have, a mango trifle with something jaggery cake. That's what this is, I assume? Okay. Can I trouble you for some more of that, um, sasperilla? Oh, yeah, of course.

Please, that's very good. Oh, yeah. So here's our mango, trifle. Mango trifle. Oreo, something or other. What's your real one again? That is our vanilla cardamom ice cream topped with Oreo crumbles.

Are these wappers? Those are our... They're woppers? They're not. Yeah, I'm. It's chocolate moppers. It's chocolate moppers. It's chocolate moppers.

Don't get it. They're not woppers. They're little woppers. They're little, they're little, really woppers. Wow. That looks insane. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Oh, who? Those are woppers. Yeah. Actually, I'm sharing. Thank you so much. This cardamom situation is very very good very good Is this caramel on the bottom of this is oh? I didn't even get that deep. That's good

I think this is my favorite the cardamom. Yep intake me out your character has to ingest a lot of Like hate speed and homophobia. Part of me feels like, okay, Jess, he's conditioned for this because he's been to Ferguson, he's been on the ground, he's been in the trenches, he's done the work, and so he's maybe has more of an armor and a guard.

But I know we would have sometimes we'd have these talk backs with the audiences, and you would kind of touch on a little bit of the protection or that you had to do to keep yourself feeling safe and feeling healthy and feeling like you are able to leave it at the theater and I don't know. I just wonder if you could I kind of elaborate on that because it's something I think obviously you did well But I just sometimes I'll be perfectly honest every day. So I was like I worried about you it was

Rough at times. I think especially early on I didn't anticipate it taking a toll, and it really is kind of twofold. There is certainly the taunts and nasty words, the nasty, you're experiencing something negative in real life. You're, as I say, your body doesn't know the difference of, you know, you being tense and you being strained and you being angry and you being hurt and heartbroken. There was like the absorbing of negative energy, of negative words and feelings and thoughts. Unfortunately, our cast is superb and it's very believable. It came from being trusted. I have learned, and if you had asked me any time before the last five years, I would say, I'm not really emotional, I'm not really sensitive, I don't certainly, which was true, I didn't

know how to communicate my emotions, but I learned that I am sensitive, that I do absorb those things, and it does hurt. And so early on in the production, the first couple, for a couple of months, I was like, oh, I see how actors go down a hole. I see how people fall into some form of depression. I don't know how to clinician. I don't know what exactly that is, but what constitutes official depression?

But you get, you know, how you need sleeping pills because your mind's racing. Right. Combination of nerves and pain and unresolved things. It had flickers of darkness for sure. And it's just a lot to make an emotion like to get off your body to wipe off. It's ugly.

But I mean, it's for me, it's in like, circling back to how we started this conversation, which is like, you know, a posture syndrome and doing something that you, you know, aren't sure, you know, how to do. It's just for me, I'm such a perfectionist, I wanna do everything so well. It's that sense of like, I could fail at this.

That is, and the unknown of like, if I'm gonna fail or not fail, that's what scares me the most. I need to be in the driver's seat. I need to know that I have complete control of the situation. And that's something that I rarely do have. I mean, I'm surprised that I'm not more scared to do stage work because that's like you truly don't have any control.

For some reason, I feel okay doing it. I feel like I'm in the driver's seat. It's really, I'm just thinking of two things simultaneously. And I remember I'm thinking back to answer your question like of other little moments in life where I just learned not to be Scared because if other people can do it so can I and I just remember if I would come back to home from class with a B Got a test my dad would be like also nobody got an a Like they don't know you don't the a's aren't available like what wow so are they smarter is that is terrible smarter than you but little things like that and then also I think being able to moving from one planet to another and this and and and a place that

is generally intimidating and then getting the look beyond the hood and realizing you people are not scary at all. You're not even impressive. You keep taking down the villains, and you see it's really just, you know, the Wizard of Oz. It's really just a man-mind occurred in like, it's not really that scary. Those little things come to mind, like the efficiency of fear, and also like,

if somebody else can do it, so can I. You just reminded me of like little moments in my young life that came to be, but there was something. Oh, that since the play, I said, I don't, I'm not running the lines and feeling like it's incomplete in the same way it was after the first run. But I do often think like, just randomly like,

I can't believe we did that shit. Yeah. Eight times a week. That's a really terrifying thing to do. Like the vast majority of people on the planet wouldn't make it through 10 seconds of that. No. What a crazy thing that we did, like you have to do it. And you're doing it. And now you started, the curtains up, you have to get actually with a gun to your head. Yeah. I do sometimes just zoom out in all, like I can't believe we get my skin to dry. I'm just trying to get my skin to dry. I'm just trying to get my skin to dry.

I'm just trying to get my skin to dry. I'm just trying to get my skin to dry. I'm just trying to get my skin to dry. I'm just trying to get my skin to dry. I'm just trying to get my skin to dry. I'm just trying to get my skin to dry. I'm just trying to get my skin to dry. I'm just trying to get my skin to dry.

I'm just trying to get my skin to dry. I'm just trying to get my skin to dry. I'm just trying to get my skin to dry. I'm just trying to get my skin to dry. reflect, I don't reflect on it with anything left on the checklist, but I do with that bit of admiration, actually, and not of myself, but of just... What if that exists? You see something, I didn't know. I just saw some picture of a rainbow that is circular around the cloud, it's some affective, whatever, in the cloud. I didn't know that existed, that's spectacular. Just as just totally objectively, I didn't know that existed. That's spectacular. Just as just totally objectively.

I didn't know that shit was really hard. Yeah. And I think there's something in a world where everything is recorded and everything is on camera and everybody can film everything and nothing is special or committed to memory. Everything can be re-examined and dredged up. Having something that dissipates.

And if you weren't there on Tuesday night, you did not see that thing that happened. I could tell you about it, but only a few of us saw it. Like it's a witness to magic in a way that's pretty, pretty special. But it's also something that's built so slowly, which I think is so interesting. The performance that we all gave on that last Sunday

that we did the show was so different from the one that we gave and the very first time we did it. And to even think that how did we create, how did we build it to that last performance? That's what that's what that's what kind of always baffles me with with these shows that you get to do a bit of a run with. It's like, to start off like a know that you have this mountain to climb, you don't realize you're climbing the mountain. You just suddenly get to this place where like,

now I'm at this peak and that's it. Yeah. But like you could never ever create what you created on day one. Right. You could never get to like what you did on day 200 on day one. And that's what I think is so beautiful about. It's one of the reasons I love being on stage, is because you get the privilege of a slow build. You get to create something brick by brick with the people that happen to be in the audience

with you that night and create something and you're always moving forward. There's always forward momentum. You're always continuing to build and continuing to create and tinker. And I'm also really proud of everything I had. It was a really cool experience. Yeah.

Well, that was a success. Yeah, I think so. This food was a success. The food's insane. What was your favorite? That one. This, but I forgot everything. The Rigatoni.

I can't wait to eat. I'm a sucker for Rigatoni. I didn't think that I was skeptical about the pizza. It was very good. We do have two pizzas. And I requested more, yeah. Yeah. It was, that went well.

There are so many ways to do fusion wrong, but this place does it right in a really unexpected way. And as the added bonus is a business model of also being a sports board. Oh, you're surrounded by TV's playing sports. Yeah. On the day that matially baseball's opened up again. That's right. But there's by TVs playing sports. Yeah. On the day that Major League Baseball's opened up again. That's right.

But there's no baseball playing here. It's all seems to be basketball. Is that what they call this game? Oh, for Christ's sake. Oh. Oh. It's your equivalent of maybe like, is that a plan? Oh, my God.

Jesse Beckett's in soccer. Oh, good. And did I tell you about my first soccer game when I was a kid? My dad forced me to do it. I didn't force me, but he was encouraging me to do it. And no one explained the game to me. So I didn't understand what was happening. And I was just always running the wrong way.

People were yelling at me. I was getting very frustrated. So on the very first game that we had, I'm running out to the field. I trip over sprinkler and the entire team runs over me. And I was like, got so. sprinkler and the entire team runs over me. And I was like, got so only happening like Dennis the man. Exactly. It's I've been my dad was like, okay, you don't have to do this anymore.

But then I put me through this anymore. Yeah, exactly. I can't watch this anymore. But I was a sucker practice with back at the other day. And I was sort of had a little bit of PTSD. And he's good at it. He's into it. But you had flashbacks.

But I was having a hard time. I was like, oh God. Yeah. I'm so good for them. It's so good. It does any, both my kids have found a sport that they're really into. And it just so many, less, so many opportunities

for lessons about yourself and self-reliance and competition. Yeah, I never got to that point with fine. Yeah, just trample just to boot my exciting back. I love it. I love it. I made me score a goal last week. I was so happy and so loud. I was like, I scored. It was so exciting. But I was a day I asked if. I was like, I scored.

It was so exciting. But I was a day I asked if you would meet me for a drink. It was it? Yeah, I was just saying you were going to soccer game. It was, man, it was just, and it's watching them put things together and getting a result. And then feeling confident, they all, I can put this to go, okay, if this plus sad, it was okay. Let me try this. It's pretty amazing.

It's pretty amazing. And we can work on my left foot after school together, right? They wanting to put things together. So when they start steering it, instead of you feeling like you're putting in my push them too hard, is this age appropriate, the hardcore I'm being? Yeah, it's pretty amazing. Yeah, I love it. It's going to a fun ride so far.

Sullivan's still not doing anything but pooping and crying, but you know, he'll get there. Okay. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it.

I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it.

I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love two months so I feel like I was going to a bit of Jesse withdrawal. He's so brilliant. I think we often see a more serious side of him but he has this really playful side that I knew about but I'm so happy I get to share with you. I also feel like he could have been a therapist in another life. He's so easy to open up to. So thanks Jesse. I will Venmo you for the session.

to open up to. So thanks, Jesse. I will Venmo you for the session. Next week on Dinners on Me, I chat about the theater, Keith Morrison, and mental health with Kristen Bell. And if you don't wanna wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners on Me Plus.

As a subscriber, you not only get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen to them completely ad-free. Just click Try Free at the top of the Dinner's On Me Show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Dinner's On Me is a production of neon hum media, Sony Music Entertainment, and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by Yours Truly.

It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Chloe Chobal is our associate producer. Sam Bear engineered this episode. Hans Dail Shee composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sam Yalison. Special thanks to Alexis Martinez and Justin McKeeda. Oh, in that ridiculous story I told about that umbrella falling apart and landing in my hair,

that happened in New York City, not Los Angeles. I'm always getting these two cities mixed up for some reason. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week. you