Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - Joe Locke

Episode Date: April 2, 2024

"Heartstopper” star Joe Locke joins the show. Over green shakshuka and grilled halloumi, Joe tells me what it was like growing up in the small community of Isle of Man, auditioning for “Heartstopper” during COVID on Zoom, and some hints at what’s to come in season 3 of the hit Netflix series. This episode was recorded at Jack’s Wife Freda in Soho, NYC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the fall, I went back to Albuquerque, New Mexico, where I grew up, to show my sons, Beckett and Sullivan, the international hot air balloon fiesta. Even though I grew up there going to this fiesta, it just never loses its magic. And it's such an amazing and beautiful tradition. I love it so much. But sometimes when I'm away on trips with my family,

it feels impractical to have my house just sitting there vacant. I realized that when I'm away on trips with my family, it feels impractical to have my house just sitting there, vacant. I realize that when I'm away, that's actually the perfect time to Airbnb it. I don't have to be someone who hosts all the time. I can do it around my travel schedule and host when I feel like it. And I can take the extra cash and use it toward more fun activities with Beckett and Sullivan, like a weekend trip to the San Diego Zoo or, I don't know, toward a romantic staycation with Justin, who doesn't love date night, right? I feel like I've cracked the code here.

Like, how did I just realize this? Anyway, thank you. Thank you for letting me share my genius idea with you. That's very kind. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnnb.com slash host. Hi, it's Jesse. Today on the show, you know him from Netflix's hit show,

Heartstopper, and his debut run on Broadway is Tobias Rag and Sweeney Todd, the demon Barbara Fleet Street. It's Joe Locke. Most of my friends are at university and getting drunk and snogging someone in an alleyway. All these things you do when you're 20. And whilst actually I don't want to do that,

knowing I can't do that is slightly annoying. This is Dinners on Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Joe Locke gave a stunning performance in his breakout role as Charlie Spring in Netflix's Heartstopper, a queer coming-of-age story that I honestly wish had been around when I was younger. Now, at 20 years old, he's taking on Broadway in Sweeney Todd, the demon barber of Fleet Street and is set to star in Marvel's upcoming series Agatha Dark Cold Diaries, which is out later this year on Disney+. I was especially excited to have a meal

with Joe, not only because I'm a big fan of his, but I was curious what it was like to have your first TV show be so enormously popular, and then the added context of being openly gay on top of that. I mean, being out today is much different than it was when I was 20, so I'm curious to dig into that as well. Also, I need to hear more about his texts with Broadway icon Patti LuPone, right? Oh hi, you're stuck up on us! How are you? I brought Joe to Jack's Wife Frida in Soho. This stylish and casual cafe is named after, well, Jack's wife, Frida. The couple were immigrants who met and married in Johannesburg in 1930.

Nearly 80 years later, their grandson Dean and his wife Maya opened the restaurant in their name to celebrate the warmth and comfort of the kind of home that they built. The menu features dishes from their childhoods in Israel and South Africa with an emphasis on fresh, bright ingredients like their green shishuka, which is a favorite of Joe's. Jack's Wife Frida is one of my favorite places to eat when I'm in New York City and I was so excited Joe agreed to meet me on his day off from Sweeney Todd. Oh, I should also mention he was also just coming from a dentist appointment, so I was very touched

Joe made time for me. Okay, let's get to the conversation. I am so excited to sit down with you. I've been such a fan of yours for so long. Oh, I mean, I've been a fan of yours for so long as well. I was so thrilled when I first met you just a few weeks ago, the closing performance of Chuck. Yes.

Which is a very American show. Yeah, it was great. I think always seeing a closing show is always special. I'm glad. I was wondering, because I was sitting two seats away from you, I was like, I wonder if he's getting all these references, because it's very American. I spent six months last year in Atlanta. Yes.

I think if I hadn't done that, half the Southern jokes would have gone right over my head. But I understood, like, most of it were the jokes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So was Atlanta the first place in the States that you lived for, like, a long period of time? That is a very, talk about culture clash. Oh, I know, yeah. I love Atlanta. I love Atlanta.. That is a very, talk about culture clash. Oh I know, yeah.

I love Atlanta. I love Atlanta. But it's a very unique place. It's the most like diverse and amazing and cultured place I've ever been to. I was there for six months and the first month I hated it. I hated it.

I was staying in a not very nice part of town. My car got broken into twice in one week, which was so annoying. The second time I was getting in the car to pick my mom up from the airport, I was like, why can't I hear the outside world? I haven't opened the windows. I turned my head and suddenly glass is all over the floor.

And I was like, oh, God's sake, again. That happened twice? That was the second, that happened twice in a week. God. I just saw, this is a very LA moment, I just saw Catherine Hahn at the hair salon. Amazing. We also do Pilates together, ironically. And I told her I was seeing you and her face lit up so bright and she just adores you. Yeah. And ironically, tonight after I'm done with this, I'm being honored at the Vineyard Theatre Gala.

And Patti LuPone is singing for me. Oh my god. I'm sure you understand. Yeah. A huge, huge thing. Yeah. And she as well, I sent her a text, I said I was sitting down with you,

and she's like, I've never met anyone more self-assured and more comfortable in their skin than Joe. She absolutely loves you. I love both of them so much. What's it like to be friends and text with Patti LuPone now? It's crazy and amazing. And it's not like a real thing. I don't know.

It's weird. I think some people think I just say this because I am now happy to be friends with her. She is and has always been one of my idols. You too like getting to know her as a person is One of the things I'm most grateful for in my life. Yeah, like They said it meet your idols, but I'm very glad that I met her. Yeah. Yeah, I got to know her you're of course are doing on Agatha I have the dark cold virus right right which is a spin-off of the Yeah, and that shot in, that's where you were in Atlanta.

I was in Atlanta, yeah. And so obviously you and Catherine Hahn and Patti LuPone and Aubrey Plaza. It's an incredible cast, but, because I know you came off of Hardstopper, which was you were with your contemporaries, you were with people that you, you were with people that you were around your same age, to then be plucked out of your comfort zone,

put into Atlanta, working with these kind of massive talents that are very American as well. Talk about navigating that transition for you. I was so out of my depth that it almost made it easier for the fact that I had no idea what I was doing or that I just ended up going in knowing nothing and being there for open and just absorbing everything from other people and I learned so much from every single one of those women and it was also the most amazingly warm, incredible set and they all made me feel so,

I never felt like I was the new kids or the high, I never felt like I didn't deserve to be there as much as they did, which is just a testament to them and how amazing they are. It's interesting, I don't know if you'll find this more as you continue to work, but like, I find that the people who are super accomplished in their careers, and these people that I idolize are always the ones,

are usually the ones that I find to be the most down to earth and the easiest to get to know. But Patty, I guess I assumed when I first met her that she would be hard to get into, but she's so generous and so lovely, and comes at you with open arms, and I was like, of course, of course, Patti LuPone, who doesn't have to be that way, is that way. Yeah. We all think of Patti LuPone, they think of the very no-nonsense talking, straightforward,

it will cut you down if you cross a woman, which she is. Yes. And she's proud of that. But therefore, I guess, therefore, we wouldn't expect her to be the warm, lovely, Italian grandmother that she is. Yeah, right. Which is more so her than anything else. The thing I think I learned the most from her is like owning the respect that you deserve from other people. Whilst not being rude and not being in any way bad about it, but like owning the respect that you know you deserve. Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, she certainly demands respect. Yeah.

Hello, how are you? Good, thank you. Good, thank you. Thank you, Anthony. I'm gonna get the panel of juice. Panel of juice? Can I get an oat milk flat white? Yeah.

I might take a coffee as well. Do you know what you want to eat as well? Are you going to get that green milk flat white? Yeah. I might take a coffee as well. Do you know what you want to eat as well? Are you going to get that green shishuka? Yeah. Alright, green shishuka for Joe. So the green shishuka is spicy and the egg hard. Can I get the eggs hard? Yeah, thank you.

I'm a weirdo, don't like running yolks. I'm going to have the grilled eggplant baguette. And can we get, I know you already have some in your plate, but I'm going to have the grilled eggplant baguette. And can we get, I know you already have some on your plate, but I'm gonna get the grilled halloumi as well, thank you. I have never heard of the Isle of Man. So as I was doing my research on you, I was like, this is new for me.

So the Isle of Man where you were raised, where you grew up, was in between the UK and Ireland. It's an actual aisle, I assume. Yeah, it's an aisle. It's an island. And it's a very small population. And that's where you grew up. You were also born in 2003. And from what I understand, they only legalized homosexuality in the Isle of Man like 10 years before you were born. Yeah, in 1992.

And even then they only did it because they had to. The Isle of Man is, it's called a Crown Dependency, which means we have our own government, we make our own laws, we have our own head of government. But the UK is still kind of a rule. It never has, but has the power to, because we're a power dependency rather than a state. And they're in charge of defense and all that boring stuff.

I'd say it's changing now, but when I was growing up, and my mom was growing up, it's like 20 years behind the UK in certain ways. Being gay, for example, wasn't legal until 1992. And that was only the one time the UK government almost did step in because everywhere else in Europe had changed the law, and the Alamance was one of the last places.

And the UK government said, look, either you have to change this law or we'll do it for you. That's incredible. I mean, obviously, I grew up in Albuquerque, New Mexico, which is, I think, in its own way, it's Mexico, which is, I think in its own way, it's like, you know, it's not an island at all, but it felt like that growing up. I certainly felt very isolated

and certainly was afraid to sort of be myself. Did that impact you, like being on a literal island of? I'm not sure it did. I think I have always been surrounded by people in my life who I know Would have always accepted me for me and also have pushed me to be me I think one of the good things about living on somewhere so small is that like My childhood was so free and that I would run around the fields My mom would never lock the front door

Yeah I knew I was to come home when the lamp posts and the lights on and like It was never any worry about that or I could be out of my friends when it was dark and no one wouldn't worry that I was so bad was happening because it was so safe and Like there was one year three houses got burgled and it was huge news and everyone was talking about it It's that kind of like yeah, it never has which that you wouldn't just wouldn't happen in a big city because I mean what an kind of like place, which wouldn't happen in a big city. I mean, what an idyllic childhood, too. I mean, that's kind of what I always dreamed of.

Yeah. And it's like that classic small town thing of at the time. I resented it and couldn't wait to leave, because that part of me wanted to see the world and explore. But now that I have done those things, and I've explored and seen the world more than most people do in their whole lives, I love going home.

I love spending time there. I love going on walks with my dog. Yeah. Do you have siblings? Yeah, I've got three siblings on my dad's side. I mean, and was your, so you obviously wanted to like expand and leave and see the rest of the world and go to a bigger city.

Was, woo, cantaloupe juice. Was Heartstopper the first time you sort of had that opportunity to leave, or were you already kind of finding, you know, roots on the mainland, as they say? I mean, we went on a holiday and I went places, and like I went to China with my school for like three weeks, which is amazing.

But I never didn't have the opportunity to leave but Hallstamper was the first time that I like left. So Heartstopper happened for you. Were you still in high school technically? Yeah, I was doing my last two years of high school. And what was your plan had you not gotten that? Like where were you thinking about going to university? I had a place at King's College in London to study history and politics. Oh, really? And I didn't actually end up getting the grades for it, but that was because I was doing my exams. I do, when it came to the time I would do my exams, it was just after Hotspot came out,

so I would do an exam in the morning, I'd fly to London, do a TV show at night, go to a press party, get the 5 a.m. flight home, do another exam the next day, fly back by 5 p.m., be in London for the evening. Because at that point also, the show had been successful, I was like, I don't need these exams, I'm not going to do anything with them, but I wanted to have them. I ended up doing pretty great in the exam, not why I needed to get into Kings, but if I'd not been partying and living my dream in that way,

I probably would have been better. I mean, at that time of your life, people are at such a crossroads, and so to have opportunity like that, it's kind of insane that that's, you have this incredible job, but also you could go to university. I mean, your life could have gone in so many different ways.

I'm fascinated with the way that Heartstopper came to you, specifically at such a young age, specifically when you were in such an isolated part of the world. From what I understand, they did a pretty wide search and it ended up being like a Zoom audition situation, which I can't even fathom. It was also like height of COVID. So I sent in a headshot and then I did a self-tape. I did another self-tape, then I did a Zoom call, another Zoom call, and then they flew me to London

to do an in-person chemistry read. And then I did that. Because of the COVID rules in the Isle of Man at the time, my mom and my dog had to move out of my house. I had to be in the house on my own for two weeks, of which I then found out I'd got the job, but it was celebrating with on my own. Wait, wait, wait, wait, back up.

So your mom and dog and- It was just my mom. My dog stayed. Your dog stayed? I got to keep the dog company. So you had to live alone with your dog while you were waiting to see if you were going to actually get the role.

Because just in case you did get the role, they needed to have you cleared to start work? No, that was just an Isle of Man law. Oh, gotcha, gotcha. Isle of Man in COVID, we never really had a lockdown. We had a bit. We did have a lockdown. So when you came from your callback.

But it was way shorter. Yeah, when I came back from the callback, I had to isolate at home. I see, I see, I see. I had left the island. And you found out in that time when you were isolated that you got the role by yourself and you and your dog? Yeah.

That's so sweet. I know. And then my phone, my mom, and then she was at the bottom of our driveway. Oh my god. She could talk to me from the window. Oh, these be teary. That's really sweet.

She was so proud. Yeah. She came to watch the show last week. Aw, these be teary. I know. That's really sweet. She was so proud. Yeah. She came to watch the show last week, well, she came watch three times. Oh my gosh. That's so cool. Yeah. And at that point, your acting experience

was just sort of doing theater at your school. Yeah. The Isle of Man has an incredible Victorian theatre called the Gayety Theatre, which has been incredibly well preserved and also has an incredibly high brow and drum core. And so from the age of eight, I will be doing a show all the time at this theatre. I spent more time there than I did at home. Were you like the kid though? Because I grew up with Neil Patrick Harris, and he and I did community theater together

because he had already kind of, first of all, he's extremely talented, and he'd also done a few professional things at that time, but he was always getting the good parts. You know, like if I was in Peter Pan, he was going to be John, and obviously we'd be one of the Lost Boys. If I was in Oliver, he was going to be Artful Dod John, and I was going to be one of the Lost Boys. If I was in Oliver, he was going to be Artful Dodger,

and I was going to be like one of the Workhouse Boys. Or like, you know, Dodger's Gang. But like, I never got the opportunity, because like, Neil Patrick Harris was so, you know, so much more talented than I was, basically. I feel like you were the Neil Patrick Harris of your community. I mean, I don't, slightly, but not really.

There was a lot of very talented people. And this is what the great thing about being a male and amateur dramatic isn't with not many of you, and so you were always... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is great. But, yeah. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Joe talks about the overnight success of Heartstopper and what it was like to go

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instead of a reactive approach like drinking electrolytes or eating greasy food. Enhance your mornings with Z-Biotics. Go to zbiotics.com slash jtTF to get 15% off your first order when you use JTF at checkout. Thank you Zbiotics for sponsoring this episode and our good times. And we're back with more dinners on me. Well, I want to talk a little bit about like just, first of all, about to have such a huge life change happen to you during a period where, first of all, to have such a huge life change happen to you during a period where, first of all, the entire world was locked down because of COVID, and then this big thing happens to you,

and you're sort of experiencing this thing with people who are your peers, your actual agent. Heartstopper is about, it's a coming of age story about this kid, Charlie, who is secretly in a relationship with someone in high school, and then they break up, and he, of course, has his eyes set on the jock in front of the unachievable guy, who ends up discovering that he's bisexual himself,

and they develop this love story together. And unlike a lot of, oh, is that our halloumi? Thank you. Have you had just the grilled halloumi by itself? No. It's so delicious. I'm not fully sure why there's grapes on it, but I think that's just a traditional thing.

But what I found so remarkable about this show and what made me fall in love with it, is unlike shows like, not to disparage them at all, but like Glee, where you know, there were these high schoolers being played by people who let's face it were in their 20s you know what I love so much about Heartstopper is these stories were being told by the people who were living them and It was not only

There was not only incredible representation with a by a by character a gay character a trans character a character Who's you know asexual, but you were also being embodied by the, you were very close to the age of the people that you were playing. What was it like to enter such a monumental moment with people who were your peers? I don't think we, any of us understood that it would become a monumental moment when we went into it because Heartstopper is definitely on the lower end of like TV budgets and especially season one when no one had watched it it was like I mean for us we knew we didn't know anything different because with most of our first jobs and we had the most amazing experience

it's like doing the thing you love the most the people that you end up loving the most in the world it's like the most magical. We have so much fun. And one thing that I'm, I know about it is that even, we just finished filming season three and the pressure of it now has never affected the product, I don't think. It's, I think it's because of the relationships we have with each other as a cast and a crew. Yeah, cause I mean, it's that thing with streaming shows now,

and I've talked about it with some of my other friends who have been part of them, but it's that very rare thing where, and this didn't happen when I was doing TV at the beginning, but when all of the show is released at one point, and in the course of 13 hours, everyone knows who you are, and everyone has watched you do this piece of art

that is incredibly complex and 13 hours long and full of nuance. And it's just, most people don't have to deal with that. I mean, what was that overnight success like for you? It was, I think I went from 90,000 Instagram followers to three and a half million in two days, which was crazy. And I think I would have struggled way more with everything if 10 other people that I love dearly hadn't been going

through the exact same thing at the exact same time. And I hope that they're all my friends dearly for life. I know they will be, but if there ever was a time that they won't, I know that we could not see each other for five years and see each other. There's always going to be that bond between us because we went through this incredible weird experience that no one else in the world can relate to together. But those are great because I mean the people like the show. Then so we all went on a night out that and the season one was released, and yeah, it was great.

What's the, I mean, now I think you probably recognize that your show reaches a lot of people, and I think what's so important about it is that it reaches young people, and it's young people who are producing it and making it for young people, and also obviously adults, and love it as well, and actually every single

person I know loves the show. But there's got to be something really profound about knowing that you are that thing that's aspirational for a lot of kids now. I mean, and I know you've also used your platform, which I really appreciate to be vocal about LGBTQ rights and pushing boundaries forward and continuing to move forward. What's it like to know that you are some of the kids look up to now? And yet you're still kind of a kid yourself. Yeah, it's amazing and terrifying. I'm very grateful that I have been able to be a part of something that matters so much to people.

Very grateful that people see themselves in my character and that our show is being able to mean that much to people and genuinely matter to people. It's also quite scary. Yeah, yeah. Because I think there's always that weird thing of being unable to make mistakes yourself, which is terrifying because I am still a kid.

I don't have a plan on making mistakes, but I know I will. Right, I mean, you know, especially your age right now, I feel like that's the age that I remember being able to make mistakes and not being in a microscope. And like, you're figuring out things about yourself. And I'm glad that you are still like, I like to make mistakes. I like that you you are still like I like me I'd make mistakes I like

I like that you still are allowing yourself yeah that journey but it is I only imagine it is a lot harder when you know that mistake or that choice or that you know tweet or whatever that Instagram post is now gonna be like more widely scrutinized instead under a microscope and it makes you think twice about things and put a guard up. And... Well, even like, most of my friends are at university

and getting drunk and snogging someone in an alleyway. All these like things you do when you're 20. And whilst actually I don't want to do that, knowing I can't do that is slightly annoying. But also most people in the world in their whole lives can't say they've done a lot of things that I've been able to do. And so that outweighs that a hundred times.

Yeah, I mean, it's a gift that comes with a lot of drawbacks and it's also, there are a lot of things that are so wonderful about it. I mean, that's certainly understandable and certainly something I can relate to as well. I mean, I didn't have the successes you had at such an early age, but you know, I certainly understand what it's like to feel like

the pressure of representing and being, you know, a good role model and, you know, also needing to make mistakes myself and wanting the freedom to do that. It's a lot, it's a lot for sure. Something else that, you know, you are also, I mean, it's a privilege for sure. Something else that you were also, I mean it's a privilege to be able to tell these stories but also it comes with a burden.

But something I found really fascinating and a story that's not often told specifically around men and boys, it's a narrative that I rarely see on TV, was one of the eating disorder that your character Charlie suffers. And it was handled so beautifully. Can you talk a little bit about just the pressure

or maybe the opportunity to play that, but also the pressure that came with it? In the season that isn't out yet, we delve into that Charlie's eating disorder much more. It's probably the main focus of the season. And our writer, Alice, is, I never met anyone who can write such quite serious topics with such heart and such love. It's almost like she writes it whilst the audience is always aware there's a light at the end of the tunnel the

whole time. Which is a great... which I don't know how... I don't know how she does it because it almost allows the audience to not stress themselves out too much whilst also learning about a certain topic. And I think the only way I could do it whilst not stressing too much about it was not letting myself put that burden on. All I can do is the best I can do. And there's gonna be people who think that, oh, you didn't do that right,

oh, you didn't do enough research, blah, blah, blah. But I can put my truth into it, and that's who I do. I think you did an incredible job with it. I was recognizing as an actor that that is a lot to take on, especially knowing that it's a large platform and it's going to reach a lot of people and you want to tell those stories correctly. You want to tell them, at least, listen,

the most you can really do is tell them with heart and compassion and with an open heart and also with as much honesty as possible. And I feel like you did such a remarkable job with that. And I think you should feel really proud of yourself for it. Thanks. Thanks and things.

Thanks. Well, I guess I mean, if anything, I know you've just shot another season. Yes. Is that the last season of Heart Slopper? I don't know. You don't know? I don't know.

Did it feel like when you ended it, it could have been, or do you think that it's just? I don't know. It was really, every time we go back, it feels like going back to school again. Yeah. And like not any good school, like not like a school you don't want to go to. We had an amazing time, and I think it's going to be very good.

I don't know if it's going to be the last one. Could you tease anything about what happens? Obviously, a little bit of a fight, but they delve into the health condition. It's definitely way darker than other seasons of Heartstopper have been, whilst also maintaining that it's our stuff. The first half of the season, I'd say, is darker. The second half of the season is horny. Yeah.

That's how we've worked, that's how we've blocked them out. Nice, that's awesome. Which, yeah, it was a fun season to film. Oh, good, good, good. Yeah. Good. I'm sure you all love each other and hate to be away from each other. I know with Modern Family we'd go away for these summer hiatuses and we would have this text chain between the entire cast checking in with one another

and we just didn't want to be apart from one another. And it is really lovely when you do know you get to see them again in a few months but I can't imagine leaving this group of people not knowing if it's over or not. Yeah, it was a weird feeling. Yeah. It was a weird feeling. Have any of them come to New York to see you so far?

Yaz came a few weeks ago, he plays El. Yeah. A few of them I know have plans to come, which is really nice. That's great. I can't wait. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Joe shares his coming out story

and how contrary to what people might believe, he's actually much different than his character Charlie Spring. Okay, be right back. Don't you just love it when someone looks at you and says, hmm, something's different about you. What were you up to last night? Well no matter how late you were up the night before, Lumify Redness Reliever Eye Drops

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and I have to get up extra early for them and oh, it's a nightmare. Z-biotics is the answer we've all been looking for. The probiotic in Z-biotics was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. Here's how it works. When you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut. It's this byproduct, not dehydration, that's to blame for your rough next day.

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Green sugar's over there. Thank you. Oh, thank you. Mm-mm. Incredible. What has it been like for you? I mean, you've lived your entire life with social media, which I have a love-hate relationship with,

I'm sure most people do. What has that been like for you, just navigating that, sort of always having this thing be a part of your existence? Yeah, I always say that I feel very lucky in that social media, as we know it, didn't really become a thing until I was 12 or 13. So for most of my childhood, I didn't have iPads and iPods and the old ones,

the first iPhone came out when I was six, I think, which I feel very lucky for. But we were also the first generation that had- It makes me feel very old, but yes. Social media in high school. I hate social media. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I can't get myself off it.

Right. Did you come out on social media at that point and then like not rescinded? When I was 12, I had told my mum and she's amazing because my mum is amazing. And felt so overjoyed. I said I need to tell everyone so I put it on my Instagram. And then quickly realised that actually Nojo, you were ready to your mom, but you weren't ready to tell the world. Right, right. Deleted it, told everyone I got hacked. And then, like, so if someone went back in their closet. And then, like, so they told all my friends again,

they were like, oh, you told us two years ago. That one never really, like, came out. Yeah. Like, I, yeah. I mean, it's kind of a beautiful thing that you didn't have to and that you just sort of got to be you and people understood.

I think that's actually really wonderful and progressive actually. When I read that you had come out, I mean, first of all, it made me think of your character. There's a lot of parallels with you and Kit's characters and your real lives. I mean, and social media plays such a big part and Heartstopper, you know, I'm sure there was a lot

for you to draw from. Yeah, which actually not as much as people think. I think I'm very, very, very different to Charlie, which. In what ways? He, I'm not as quiet as him. He is way more accepting of himself than I was when I was his age. There are definitely a lot of similarities to us, but I like that there are a lot of differences too.

I think I'm way more loud and outspoken than he is. He's braver than me. Charlie's definitely way braver than me. In different ways. I can win an argument every time. I know I've got a very sharp tongue, so I don't think Charlie could, but I would never ask to kiss a boy I liked

or join a rugby team because I liked a guy. I would never be able to do that because I'm not brave enough. Or as Charlie would. Yeah. It's weird. I think also part of me wants to make myself less like Charlie because the world sees me as him.

Right. And like, I don't know. myself less like Charlie because the world sees me as him. And like, I don't know. What's it been like being here in the States and having fans come up to you? I always find it interesting when I go to a place that's not home and people somehow are still connected to me or feel like they have, they know me or have some ownership of me or, you know,

just even though the fact that they're fans of like something that I do is really crazy to me. Yeah, I mean, I still find it weird that people know who I am. Yeah. Or care what I do in my life. I find it weird, not in like a way, in like, it's just a strange thing.

Yeah. But one amazing thing with HeartStormer fans, especially, is I have, okay, maybe once or twice, but never felt like anyone has pushed a boundary or everyone I ever meet in the street is so lovely and wants to tell me the reason that my show meant so much to them, which is an incredible thing and is very special.

It's also weird and can be quite overwhelming because these people you never met are telling you how your show got them out of their deepest, darkest moments in life. And it's a lot to take on, but also is amazing in itself. And I, yeah. Truly. Amazingly beautiful.

Yeah, I can only imagine that. It's also just really gotta be hard at that age, navigating that thing. And also being in a new city, you know. How has it been dating as someone who is on TV and at that age where you should, this is like when you really should be exploring and? I don't know.

Yeah. I don't know. It's weird. I don't follow any of my friends, family, people I might be dating or not on Instagram because I have this inherent fear and stress that, when I did, they would get messages from people trying to get to me, and I have this fear and inherent

stress that I hate the idea of my career and my choices in life affecting them, or negatively impacting them in any way, and also, I think because I'm so, there's still most of me that's not used to this life, keeping the people I care about and love separate to the Joe who is a public figure makes things easier. And I think I always will be a very private person. Like I don't think I'm ever gonna, hey, if I ever I ever one day want to sponsor my wedding, that's very different.

But I'm never gonna be posting my significant other on my social media or doing things if I'm dating someone and that. And I think if that was to happen, they would think that was because of them, but actually it's the opposite. No. I struggled for a while juggling that and I think I've come to the conclusion that like people who really love me in my life don't care. I don't follow them on Instagram. And we've talked about it and they know and like and I don't know. It's just... I mean it's a brave thing.

Setting boundaries is incredibly important especially when you are a public figure and how do you handle the pressure to be more open when you want to keep yourself, you want to keep things private? Uh-huh. I'm asking because I'm curious, I like to do it more myself. I have learned that sometimes

you have to be a bit of a selfish. Yeah, yeah, I get it. And that doesn't make you a bad person. Yeah. I can? With that? I can say a savage cunt. Yeah, you can say a savage cunt. You have to be a savage cunt. Did you see Olivia Colman recently say that that was her favorite password?

She's told me that before. She has? Yeah. Because I was saying when we were on a horse ride, I was like, my favorite piece of your work is in Fleabag when Andrew Scott leaves and you just go, ah! Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. My favorite scene of anyone ever.

So good. Yeah, it was amazing to get to work with her. She's a very amazingly talented, incredible person. I mean, look at all these amazing women you're collecting. Olivia Colman, Patti LuPone. Sutton Foster now. Talk to me a little bit about your, the first night you went on for Sweeney Todd. The day after Tommy Hale, the director, came to my gesture room and he was like, so how

was yesterday? And I remember- He didn't see it? No, no, he did, but he asked me how it was. And he told me to write this down and I said to him, I'll remember the bits of yesterday that I remember the rest of my life. Because most of it was a blur. The bits I do remember, I'm going to treasure forever.

Will you share what those memories were? So the start of the show, we all come up in a lift. Yes. And we come up with a lift, and then the applause of the audience, I remember that. I don't remember anything from Porelli's, which is my first song. Yeah. Because it's just that song is the hardest. It's such a tongue twister.

It's the most like, at one point, sometimes rhymes the word buy in eight different harmonies. People saying like, oh, I'm passing by. Oh, I want to buy one. Oh, bye bye. Like everyone starts singing at a different time, singing completely different notes, but have to say the word buy exactly at the same time. And it's, that song, now I'm what, 35 shows in,

I'm still like, one, two, three, sing. One, two, one, and one, and three, and. Like, every, in my head, but I have to, because I just can't, it's so complicated. That's incredible. But I remember Delaney, who was playing Mrs. Lovett at the time for my first show, but singing Not All I'm Wrong with her

and then sitting on her lap and her just squeezing me while the applause happened, I just started crying. I was like, I was like, ah! But yeah. Did you ever sing that song before doing the show? I knew the song, but I hadn't sang it. I I mean it's one of Sontai's most beautiful pieces. Yeah, I mean I'm biased but it's probably my favorite. I mean, Barbra Streisand sang it.

Yeah. Yeah. That's something you share with Barbra Streisand. You've both sung Not While I'm Around professionally for money. That's a big deal, Joe. It's a big deal. It's, yeah.

Yeah. So what's gonna happen after Sinney Todd closes for you? I'm going to go on holiday. Are you going to go back to the Isle of Man or are you going back to England? I'm going to go back to the Isle of Man for a few weeks, but my base is London now, so I'll probably spend most of my time in London.

But I want to go somewhere hot for a week. Yeah, you should do that. Well, you are a very welcome addition to Broadway. I was really stunned by, I mean, I already knew you were a talented actor, but your voice is incredible. I want to see more of you on New York stages. I think you're born to be on a New York stage or a London, you can do theater in the Weston too, I'll allow that. But you're really wonderful and I'm just so thrilled that I got to meet

you and truly, I mean Heartstopper is such a special show and I hope you know what a special thing it is that you're a part of. Thank you. I was stunned. Thanks for having lunch with me. Thanks for having lunch with me. I didn't eat much, but to be honest, I'm completely hungover.

Are you really? I was at the dentist this morning. Oh, I know, I did hear that. So my mouth's still a little bit numb. Oh my God. I cracked my tooth on, I don't know what you'd call it, but you could be called a flapjack, but it's not a pancake bit numb, so. Oh my God. I cracked my tooth on, I don't know what you'd call it, but in the UK we call it a flapjack, but it's not a pancake.

Yeah, flap, you cracked your tooth on a flapjack? Yeah, but not a pancake. One of the, like oats and, we put like the bottom of a Heath bar in it, and it melted to the bottom of it, and then it rocked solid. Wait, there was a Heath bar in your flapjack? Where did you get this flapjack?

Flapjacks, I'm, which one went very different things? Okay, you tell me what you're talking about. Flapjacks to me are like oats and syrup in like a bar. Okay. A granola bar basically. Okay. But we mixed in like little bits of Heath bar, which we didn't think about that would melt

and go to the bottom. Sometimes take a bite out of it and crack. By toffee. Yeah. Like hard, rock hard. Well yeah, you gotta get that toothpick, especially for this thing in Sondheim. I know. It'll be whistling out the side of your mouth. Yeah. They're like hard, rock hard. Well yeah, you gotta get that tooth fixed. Especially when you're doing it in song time. I know.

You'll be whistling out the side of your mouth. Yeah. Well thanks for coming to me with a half-numb tooth now. But yeah, it's fixed now. I appreciate it. Thanks man. Yeah, thanks for having me. Of course.

Yay. Yay. Next week on Dinners on Me, it's the mysterious masked country crooner Orville Peck. We'll get into the evolution of his persona, how he found country music while growing up in South Africa, and how wearing a mask allows it to be more authentic and vulnerable. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners On Me Plus. As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad-free.

Just click Try Free at the top of the Dinners On Me show page on Apple Podcasts to search your free trial today! Dinner is on Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Angela Vang. Sam Baer engineered this episode.

Hans-Dyl She composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tamika Balanz-Kolassny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.