Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - Joel Kinnaman – Reflecting on Mortality in ‘For All Mankind’ and L.A. Hiking Dates

Episode Date: May 5, 2026

‘For All Mankind’ star Joel Kinnaman joins the show. Over fresh fish and farmer's market vegetables, Joel tells me about aging across four decades on the Apple TV+ series ‘For All Mankind’ and this season, portraying the same age as his father. Plus, we hear about his fascinating upbringing – from being raised by his American father in Sweden, who deserted the Vietnam War – to being an exchange student in suburban Texas. Plus, playing in his native Swedish in Netflix’s ‘Detective Hole’ and his unexpected wedding at Burning Man. This episode was recorded at Crudo e Nudo in Santa Monica, CA.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Spring break planning at our house is, it's definitely an adventure. Our kids have very strong opinions, and they're always on different sides of the spectrum. Beckett has very strong opinions about the ocean. It has to be a certain temperature, and the wind has to be blowing a certain way if he's going to get anywhere near it. He doesn't want sand on his feet. Sully, on the other hand, he will roll around in the sand and doesn't care about the water temperature, and he could be just sitting amongst seagulls and he's happy. Justin and I, we just want air conditioning and Wi-Fi, honestly.

Juggling all the details of a trip can be very stressful. And while I'm thinking about our plans, I also start thinking about our house while we're away. And it hits me. Maybe we could list our place on Airbnb while we're gone. It always sounds great, but I don't know if I can manage all the details myself. That's where Airbnb's co-host network comes in. You can hire a vetted local co-host to handle all the behind-the-scenes details. managing reservations,

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someplace with air conditioning and Wi-Fi. If you're ready to host but could use a little extra help, find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. I'm Jenna Fisher. And I'm Angela Kinsey. And together we have the podcast Office Ladies. Just because we finished rewatching the Office does not mean we're going anywhere. Every Wednesday we'll be sharing even more exclusive stories from the Office and our friendship with brand new guests.

Plus, you can revisit all the Office Ladies rewatch episodes every Monday with new bonus tidbits before every episode. So follow and listen to Office Ladies on the free Odyssey app and wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Jesse. Today on the show, you know him from shows like The Killing, and for all mankind, he has a new show out on Apple TV Plus called Detective Hole. It's Joel Kinnaman. I think it's really healthy to kind of keep your mortality at the front of your mind and just, you know, not forget that we're all dying. Yeah. I mean, I really think it's one of the keys to live a rich and full life. This is Dinner's On Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson.

So today I'm at Crudeau-enuto in Santa Monica just off of the very busy Main Street. This restaurant is known for some of the best seafood in all of Los Angeles. You know it's fresh when the menu is constantly changing. There's a chalkboard inside that lists all of the day's offerings. I think today we're looking at halibut and scallops for some other delectable treats, all pulled from the waters, from Baja to Monterey. And everything's finished off with beautiful flowers and herbs from local farmer markets. There's a reason why this place is on the top of so many lists of places to eat here in L.A.

I am very excited to have a meal with my new friend, Joel. So let's skip to the conversation. I have to tell you about this crazy thing that's happened. I told Joanna, I was like I'm saving it for when the cameras are rolling. Okay, so I'm doing a play in New York right now. Okay. Um, and it's a play about Truman Capote. I'm doing it in a very small space.

space for like 100 people a night. So it's like library. You playing good body. Yeah. Fantastic. It's just me. And for opening night, I got this like really amazing Zippo lighter that's like in gray that says gold lighter.

It has the name of the play and the venue on it. And I had to fill up a butane. So I ordered Bhutan from Amazon filling it in the sink. Some of it dripped into the sink. I thought I'd washed it out. You know where this is going. I tested the lighter. Like a Mission Impossible style, like cloud of flames came up and hit my face in my apartment.

Can you see? I'm like peeling. Now you can see it a little bit. For, okay, so this happened on Thursday. You blew your face up. I blew my face up. It was so bad. That was, you should have, you really shouldn't have done.

And I was so mad. That was a mistake. That was, yeah. Okay. Yeah, next time, go get your face up. And so, like, it was on a Thursday. This happened Thursday. What's today?

Today's Monday. So this was a few days ago, four days ago. And at the time, I was like, oh, it's just kind of like, I mean, I've had some bad sunburns. I was raised in New Mexico. Yeah. It's like, it's just a bad sunburn. Yeah. That night, I, like, just put some makeup on.

I was like, it's fine. The next day I woke up, this was all, like, a blister. this was like my nose was falling off like I looked like I had leprosy on my nose just red here which I'm playing an alcoholic so I was like that kind of works no it's great yeah it's perfect but you know I'm I'm just looking a little dehydrated that's all you know it's a little dry but I'm performing for like in a very intimate video like I mean I'm I'm about as far as a way I'm closer to audience members than I even to you right now and I's too intimate yeah that's yeah too intimate yeah especially if

If I was an audience member, I would be like, you know, keep your distance. Yeah, back up a little bit, yeah. Yeah, if you came to see it, I think there are safe first scenes that you could, you would say it. But, you know, I, I, I, anyway, like day three, I could face him to friend of mine. Do you know busy Phillips? Oh. She's an actress. Anyway, she looked at me and she goes, what's wrong with you?

Go to the doctor. Like, and this was now Saturday. I was like, well, it's been two days already. Like, this is kind of healing and it's getting worse as it's healing. and she's like oh my god she's like she had this real life she goes oh my god even straight men or even gay men are just men like you guys don't want to do anything to help

yourselves so I was like you're right no I need to go get so I went I went to a doctor I got some stuff I went to like an hyperbaric oxygen chamber now I'm like finally doing things to to heal but anyway that's all to say I'm in the process of my face is healing I'm part of your healing journey yeah I'm so glad

yeah have you eaten No. Excite. You're in Lowebue, right? Yeah. I used to live down the street. Oh, nice. It's famous. Yeah, nice. Thank you. Is there, what should we know? Many exciting items come in. Hi. But we have some kudos. It's pretty much what we're known for. They're going to be sliced really thin, kind of sashimi style. I love me some crudo. Yeah, perfect. Very excited. Yeah, definitely. We just like to showcase a lot of, like, local farmers, fishermen, things like that. And so everything is coming either three hours up or down the coast. Is all the fish wild?

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's all coming from, like, Channel Islands, bottom of us. But not anywhere, like, north or south of there, essentially. That's so great. I'm so excited. And are you guys okay with everything? Do you have any restrictions or allergies?

No. No, I think I'm good. Thank you. Awesome. I hadn't started watching all mankind yet. And so I was like, let me just, I was like, I was given a link to start, like I could see the new episodes. So I was like, no, I'm going to start at the beginning.

This is the problem with having a podcast. When you haven't started, like now I have another fucking show I'm addicted to. It's so good. Yeah, it's good. I'm only three episodes in. And I've done enough research to know that you, you know, you age in each season and kind of by a decade. Yeah.

Not only my character, but everyone. Yeah, yeah, you're not Benjamin Button. But it's so fantastic. Yeah, it's a super well-written show. Yeah. Like, it's, um, that show is, like, really special to me. I think, you know, it's, like, a combination of things. I've been trying to, like, can I put my finger on, like, why I feel, like, so emotional about the show compared to, like,

like 99% of other work that I've done. I mean, it is like the character that I've played for the longest amount of time, because we started this in like 2018, so it's been a minute. And so it was like, you know, I've been shooting it for a real era of my life. But then it's also,

it's been something really special with, you know, shooting in all these different ages. I was like 40, 50, 60, 70, and not 80 on the show. And it's just something really, special by like sitting you know because it's also not usually when you go through the sort of aging process it's just kind of like an epilogue scene you know that you do for like a week you don't

see a whole season but you're not spending six months looking like that and like being that and and it's just something with you know like trying to embody that age and think about just you know think about what that age does to you for that amount of time for all those different like eras of your life. Yeah, it just really made me, you know, I think it's really healthy to like kind of keep your mortality at the front of your mind and, and just, you know, not forget that we're all dying. Yeah. I mean, I really think it's one of the keys to like live a rich and full life to, because I think it's so easy for us in our minds that we sort of just kind of, you know, put things away and then we just kind of keep shrugging along and then just keep doing our routine.

and then all of a sudden, like, 20 years passed, and it's like, oh, why didn't I do that? And then we kind of lose the sight of our dreams or, you know, the things that are scary that we didn't really go for and things like that. For sure. So I think the experience of shooting on this show just really, like, put that in front of my face.

How old are your parents? So my dad's, like, the same age that Baldwin is in the same... In the last season, so he's 82. Wow. Yeah. So I think that was also, like, very... emotional. And I was like for the last season I was really like kind of studying my dad in a different way. Yeah. And and he's he's gotten a little grumpy, you know. I mean, it's perfect. We're all heading toward

yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. This looks great. This looks great. So this is local bread from Yonah's a cake for me. Come on now. And then a bit of all of all from Spain. Nice. The problem. Yeah. Yeah. Not really good. Ombread. So good. Bread. I love me some bread. So you're done shooting the show.

You've, and how does it feel to, because it's over, right? That was it. For me, yeah, so it's, um, I die in the next episode. I, fuck you, Joel. I said no spoilers.

Sorry. Yeah. Oh, no. Yeah, so I die in episode three. Flashbacks. And, um, it was, so emotional shooting that? I don't know.

No, I'm sad. It was so emotional. It was strange. I was like crying my ass off while we were shooting, after we were shooting. I don't know. I think it was something that was connected in me with my dad. You know, it was like,

because I was on my deathbed, you know, saying goodbye to my grandson and my daughter. and there's something, you know, like, about that situation, you know, it's like, I mean, that is going to happen, you know. Yeah. You know, hopefully, you know, hopefully that happens to everyone that they get to say goodbye to their parent, you know, in a good way. But that is wild, like, to be put in a position to, you know, have to live in that space of passing away and being playing the age. that your father actually is. I mean, that is, that's wild.

Yeah. That's really wild. Makes a thing for sure. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Joel tells me a fascinating story about how his American dad ended up in Sweden after five years on the run. Yes, there's a story there.

And we get into Joel's stint as a foreign exchange student in Texas. Okay, be right back. Hey, sweetie, your mother showed me this Carvana thing for selling the car. I'm going to give it a try. Wish me luck. Me again, I put in the license plate. It gave me an offer. Unbelievable. Okay, I accepted the offer. They're picking it up Tuesday from the driveway. I haven't even left my chair. It's done. The car is gone. I'm holding a check. Anyway, Carvana. Give it a whirl. Love you.

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Your dad was born in the States, right? Yeah. Right. Yeah. There's an interesting story with her. You were talking about maybe even creating a film about his life. Yeah. He,

left kind of during the Vietnam War, right? And went to... Yeah. So, it's pretty funny. He was born in Indiana. And then he moved here. It's down in Monica. Oh, really?

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. This looks incredible. Mm. That looks so good. Put it in my mouth. So this is the Critot Trio. Again, it changes pretty much table to table.

I recommend starting with the middle one here. It's going to be the line. and most delicate, so it's halibut. It's very lean, clean, and then there's a dashi that we make from the roasted fish bones, Arbakeda olive oil, and then sesame. This is Lupin tuna with a house-made blood orange juice, which is clarified, a little bit of lemon oil, and then basil floods and Aleppo. And then finally, the local vermilion rock fish from the Channel Islands

with Mandarin oil, white soy, or could be bare pepper, and shrew. These looks so incredible. You're gonna want that bread to sup up all the juices too. We'll do, Joel. Okay, wait, so go back to your dad. Yeah, so he moved here to Santa Monica. He was on Pico, just like two blocks away. And that's where they found him in the draft.

And he got drafted in the army. He got drafted while high on LSD. Wow. He said it was like, it was a turn. It was a turtle that showed up at when they were like, right when they were like processing him and he was like, to this day he doesn't know if the turtle was real, but it shouldn't have been a turtle in the middle of... That is really funny.

And then he got the station in Bangkok and there he started to spend time with a bunch of European backpackers and who were like in Bangkok and just... had a completely different view of the whole conflict and the war and what the U.S. was doing there. So he started to bring these ideas back to the base, which was not appreciated, and became more vocal, and the situation started to become untenable. And then a friend of his who was sort of in the administration at the base told them, like, hey, just so you know, like last week we saw your orders have changed, Like you're being shipped to, I don't know exactly where it was,

but it was like in a zone of heavy combat. And then he just made a decision that it's not going to do this. So one of the following nights, he like snuck out of the military barracks at night, hitchecked his way into Bangkok, burned his passport, and then hitched his way up into northern Thailand, and then snuck over the Mekong River and then into Laos. And then he lived on the run in Lao for five years. And then he met my sister's mom.

And then they decided to try to escape. And they found out that Sweden was the only country that accepted actual deserters. There was a lot of Canada. There were other countries that accepted draft dodgers, but actual deserters. Sweden was the only Western country that accepted them. So got to borrow a passport. from a journalist friend.

And so he got on the plane and landed in Stockholm and applied for political asylum. Yeah, the rest is history. It's a fascinating story. Yeah. And has your dad been back to the States since? Yeah. So Jimmy Carter issued a sort of partial amnesty.

So after that, he was able to come back. What's his relationship with the United States? Conflicting, for sure. And it's funny because, you know, I came here and found out that I love this place. You came here pretty young, right? It's an exchange student. Yeah, I was here for a year when I was 16. Texas, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, God. That is a total culture shock. Yeah. Yeah, that was... From Stockholm, you came to Texas? To Texas.

yeah but it was like it was still a great experience and then and it's so valuable for me to have spent a year like in my late teens in Texas and went to high school in the US but after like moving here and then trying to play American

in shows it was so important to have had the sort of high school experience because I think high school is a much more defining thing in the US than it is in Europe. Okay. Sort of your identity in high school, I feel like it has much more like significance to people here, like in the later parts of their lives, like either who they were or who they

weren't. Whereas like school is like a much smaller part of that sort of identity building aspect in European schools. because all your extracurricular activities is outside of school. Right. So it just has a lesser importance. Right, right.

So good. So incredible. So good. Did you try this yet with the bagel? Yeah, the tuna is bomb. Yeah. So good. That might be my favorite actually.

Yeah. I was like a little fuck boy even back then. And, you know, I was just trying to get high and, you know, try to pull it out. Trying or doing it? I was, like, as soon as they could get any drugs, I would take them. Okay. But it was. As soon as they let me out of the house, I was like, I remember I went to this, like, Texas party

and some of the football players, and it was like, it was like a Texas gangster party, so it was like, you know, like bombs of hay that you were sitting on, but it was like Mexican gangsters. And they were like, you ever smoked a Primo essay? And I was like, no, but I want to. And I smoked it. And they were like, I was like, what is that? It's like weed and cocaine. I was like, great.

That's exactly what I needed right now. Oh, my God. Yeah, I was a little idiot. So, I mean, I probably was not like an easy kid to have as an exchange student, so, you know. Right. God bless him. Wow. And were you interested in acting at that point?

Was that something that... No, no, no. I was interested in different kinds of drugs and then... And all of the girls. Uh-huh. But that was your first experience with America, this Texas. Yeah. And this, like, weird, little pocket.

of Texas. Yeah. And yet you still kind of knew that you wanted to come here. No. No, I didn't. No, that was later. Because you did,

well, tell me how you ended up falling into actor in that. Well, I was like kind of, because you did theater, right? Yeah, yeah. When I was like in my, like when I was like 19, 19, 1920,

I never graduated from high school, but the people that I went to high school with, they were in the acting program and were about to become actors. So then I was following them. They knew what the path was, how you do. And in Sweden, the easiest path is to, the easiest pass

to credibly become an actor and to be able to say that you are an actor is to get into the National Theater School. Right. And it's like every year there's like 10 spots and 1,000 to 2,000 people apply. And then when you get in

it's like four years and it's an incredible education. It's like it... The education is, you know, in Sweden it's a little bit more civilized than over here. We actually get paid to go to college. Wow. Really?

Yeah. You get like a stipend from the government. Wow. And it's free. So you actually get paid to go to. So there's like a real incentive to get educated. Yeah. I think I'd gone in on my like fourth attempt or something.

And when I got in, that was like, my life just like completely shifted. Now let's take a quick break, but don't go away. When we return, Joel tells me about returning to acting and his native language. and the new show Detective Hole, now out on Netflix, and we get into his unconventional wedding at Burning Man. Okay, be right back. One day, you're negotiating with suppliers. The next, you're installing a shelf in the back room.

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I'm Jonathan Hirsch. Cut Color Kill is available now on The Binge. Search for it wherever you get your podcast to start listening today. Subscribers to The Binge can listen to all episodes, all at once, add free. Infamous is the gossip show that's smart. We talk about Tyra Banks and bringing down top model. We talk about Jenna Jameson and how she dominated the 90s. You know, she's horny and she's in charge.

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I am one of Jen Shaw's many victims. She was defrauding the elderly, and her tagline was the only thing I'm guilty of is being shamazing. Listen to Infamous, the gossip show that's smart. The show's called Infamous. And we're back with more dinners on me. Hi. Nice. Oh, wow.

Oh, my God. Do you want to hang on with the bread? Yeah, right? I don't know. Keep it. Why not? Yeah. So this is going to be, I like to say, if you're taking a walk down the Santa Monica Farmer's Market.

Oh, wow. For the week, it's kind of what's going to end up on this plate here. So we have a bunch of different veg. We have some pickled veg and then a green garlic hummus. Olive is topped off with an almond and hazelnut ducca. And a little bit of peopal olive oil. Wow. Beautiful.

I mean, the other, it's so crazy that you have, you know, the two shows that I, just watched you in the other one being um detect a hole which is so wildly different than you know anything i've actually ever seen you in um and but you get to also hit so funny because i was watching and like my my iPad message it's a default mode like go to um like a dubs english and i was i was watching about half was like this doesn't seem right like their their lips are The ADR on this is really bad. And then I was like, oh, I'm watching it over there. And so I started it again and watched it in Swedish, which is so much better.

But it's so dark and different. But I was also thinking about how I imagine it must be somewhat freeing to also be able to act in a language that maybe you haven't acted in. in a while yeah no for sure um yeah i hadn't played in swedish for over 15 years wow um so and i it was a couple of months into the shoot of um of detective hole um i was i was i had i was i had this like a moment with myself and i was like oh my god like what have i been doing because i realized While shooting that, like playing in Swedish, like I have another gear that I just haven't been using. And there's like something with the language, playfulness with it, this sort of fluidity of, you know, impersonating people and dialects and stuff like that. Because it's the language that I grew up with my first 30 years.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you spoke, when your dad spoke English and you and your mom spoke Swedish, is that? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I spoke English at home. So, like, English is an emotional language for me. You know, a lot of people that have learned other languages, it's like, we can speak it well, but it can struggle to, like, really, like, express their emotions in a way because it's sort of,

I have to translate it internally. Like, I don't have that in English. So I can, English is, I can be fully expressive in English. But there's, like, something there that is, like, um, you know. And I think my identity is more tightly bound to Swedish. It's weird, but it goes back and forth. It's strange. It's funny with language.

Like, it's, especially when you live this, like, really bilingual life that I do. Or even with my wife, you know, because she's also Swedish, but she grew up in a household that spoke English at home because her dad's Australian. So we speak both. Oh, really? speak like, she probably speaks like 70% English to me and I probably speak 50-50

to her. And very often she will speak English to me and I will respond in Swedish. Really? Yeah. Just a little bizarre. How did you to meet? I slid in to her the end. Oh really?

Wow. Very ocrant. Yeah. It took me seven months to get a date. Really? Yeah. When was this? Where year?

It was 2018, 29. Yeah, we started chatting in 2018. And I was like, I've been like single for a year or something like that, maybe a little bit less. I was like still heavily in the newest iteration of my like fuckboy era. And it's like the things that I were, was. suggesting to her, I mean, it's like, it's embarrassing. You know, say, hey, you want to come have a drink in my hotel bar at 11 p.m.? Right. She's like, no. No. Good for her.

I got me. Yeah, so when I had like, you know, played through all of that and then kind of come to my senses, then we went for a hike in L.A. when she was here visiting. That's what she's doing on a day now. Yeah. I did that with my husband. I took it for great. So she, yeah, yeah, hike. That was it? It's great. It's like, it's nice. You're out. It doesn't become so obvious that you're trying to smash, you know?

I mean, it's literally same. I had a dinner date with my husband the night before. And then he was like, he, he, I like, obviously wanted to see him again. And so I made this date to go hiking the next day. And then, like, it wasn't until, like, after the hike that, yeah, things escalated. as we say. And you guys got married when? Year and a half ago, I think.

Yeah. What was that? Almost two years ago. Well, her idea of a big wedding was like 35, 40 people. That's big, okay. And my idea of a small wedding was like 120.

Okay. So there was not much middle ground there. So then we decided to get married a Burning Man. That's a very trigger. word for me right now. Yeah? Yeah, no, you literally are the burning man. No way. So this was me coming to the man burn, you know. Oh, shit. Burning, well, how does one get buried a burning man? Like, you just, did you just do it? Um, you just, do you need an officiant? No, we had a, we had a friend,

that, uh, that, that appreciated. Um, it was actually really beautiful. We had, it was like seven friends that we were there. No one was, like, invited for the wedding. Right. And, and, and, and, sort of. Did you know you were going to get married before going to go? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You didn't tell anyone. Huh? You didn't tell me of your friends.

No, we didn't want to make too big of things. We had a couple, you know, that were like, eh, it'd be a good idea if you came. Got it. But we did everyone that was coming, like all of our friends were sort of from all over the world. So we asked all of our friends to, you know, maybe bring a tradition from their culture of them.

So we had this, had some friends from Iran. They did this like this Persian ceremony where they're like yeah, it was a beautiful something we had to like lick the honey in the mouth and they were like grinding something above our heads and it was awesome.

And then another friend is Thai so she had this sort of Buddhist tradition of like she had this conchel and she had this special water and then we got to say our love and our intentions into this conscience and she prayed over it as well and then she had these two or she had this plant that um that she then poured those intentions into and then yeah i think we just killed that plant by the way which is not a moment it's not it's not doing good that sounds so special

and like something that you would never be able to like put together in any other way i mean i've never been a burning man to be perfectly honest it sounds like my worst nightmare like just being in the desert. It's like no shade. But I mean, I know people who go and absolutely swear by it, they love it so much. So it's the tuna tart tart toast. Bam. Wow. That is crazy. A little Yuzu oil drizzle and then some black sesame over the top. It's cut in half for you so you're good to go. Oh my gosh. Thank you. Do you prefer fresh plates or are you no, I'm okay with this? This is it right after this? This is the final dish. Oh my God. What do you think, I mean, now that all mankind is done, what do you want to, I mean, what would you, like, what's your dream job now, do you think? I mean, you've done so many fucking awesome things.

Situational comedy. I do, I do want to do more comedy, actually. I'm actually, like, that's, that's actually where I want to, like, kind of focus a little bit now. I really enjoy it. And I have a new show that is going to be great, and I'm really looking forward to it. But it shoots in Montreal. all. And it's like, that's probably the last time I'm going to sign up for something, like, longer term that's not shooting in L.A. Nice. What is that? It's called Bishop. So the sort of elevator pitch.

It's like a mixture between seven and succession. Got it. I totally announced for him. Yeah, got it. John Malkovich plays my dad. No way. Wow. That's crazy.

Yeah. Have you met him yet? No. Can't wait. That's going to be wild. Oh, so good. So fun. I mean, what does it like when you get to work with these?

I mean, I love, my favorite part about being an actor is that I get to encounter people I just absolutely worship. I know. And get to. create with them and I mean he's someone that I just John Malcovic and I just love so much do you find it intimidating or I mean how do you usually

no I mean I work with Denzel like early in my career so he was a little intimidating but I also didn't have any like real scenes with him like this it was just like kind of he put a gun to my head and we had a little conversation with yeah yeah yeah

But otherwise I find the better the actors are, the easier it is. The easier they are, I know. That's so true. And it's like it's the better they are, the easier it is to play. And the easier it is to play, the better of a time you're having. Yeah. I got to do Shakespeare with Al Pacino.

And it was, I mean, one of the highlights of my career, for sure. Yeah. But what you were saying about people who are that talented in being the easiest to work with is so true because I went in with this idea that he was going to be so intimidating and so like I was going to have to work extra hard to get in with him and he was so open also you know we were doing a play together so it's like you know you're really creating from the ground up and you're taking the time with rehearsal which I love so much I love being able to rehearse and he's such a creature of theater and I something I am so passionate about I think

he really recognized that and really the entire cast but it was such a great experience and I was it definitely changed the way I interact with people that I admire now because I feel like you know we're all human at the end of the day and like we all we're all doing this thing and not everyone's gonna you're not have a great experience with everyone but all I can just put my best foot forward and like offer the best version of myself and hopefully they'll respond to it And like, if they don't, then that probably, that revelation is probably not meant to be. But he was someone that I really treasured working with. Yeah.

It made me think of, I remember when I started working and when I started working here, and when I started getting my first sort of lead roles here, and I realized, like, okay, I can really, like, play a big part in changing the vibe. on set. Like if I come in with like a good spirit and like being generous and like showing that this is like a place where we're not like doing bad ego stuff here. It's like here we're making fun of ourselves. Setting it's home. Yeah. And I thought I thought that was like so so important and to be like generous and to create that spirit. I don't know. But now I

feel like everyone's doing that. So, but I feel like there's so much like posturing and like sort of virtue signaling around that, that it doesn't, like, I feel now I'm, I mean, it's still very important that, you know, people show up and are being generous and warm. but I find like it's I feel like it's become more and more important for me that people are just like real

that they are themselves and then or maybe I'm just like I need to be like a contrarian I always have to like duty opposites now I'm gonna start being an asshole to everyone like I'm just being a diva because that's

Are you feeling sometimes it's just an act like that people are? Yeah yeah yeah I now it's like everyone's like a politician you know and it's like it's like for the gram Yeah.

No, but the one thing that I find, like, really difficult to deal with is, like, when someone has, like, a bad ego, and it's like, and you can tell that they sort of thrive from pushing other people down, like, that energy. Yeah. And I don't care about who they're pushing down. It doesn't even, I don't really judge people how they behave towards me, you know? It's more like seeing how they're treating other people. people that I want to see that especially like from someone that's sort of leading you know that's

that's and nowadays I think this a lot more subtle you know people don't want to get called out you know yeah but when that energy is around like that bothers me yeah yeah for sure I always think I'd be a great number one on the call sheet no one's let me that'd be awesome and when it happens It's going to be a great set. You can be on it. Can't wait. Thanks for doing this. Not pleasant.

I appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you. Love chatting with you. This episode of Dinners on Me was recorded at Crudeau in Santa Monica, California. Next weekend dinner's on me. You know her from the Blue Lagoon, suddenly Susan and Lipstick Jungle.

It's Brooke Shields. We get into what it's like basically being famous since you're a baby, navigating invasive moments with the press in the 90s and her latest project, which I'm so excited about, a campy murder mystery set in a quaint new England town. Say less, listen, I'm binging it already. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now

by subscribing to Dinner's On Me Plus. As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, they'll also be able to listen completely ad-free. Just click Try Free at the top of the Dinners On Me show page, on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Dinner's On Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions.

It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcalf. Sam Bear engineered this episode. Hans Dale She composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tamika Balance Kalasney

and Justin McKita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.