Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - Josh Radnor — on reconciling with HIMYM’s Ted Mosby, marriage, and side effects of fame

Episode Date: September 9, 2025

Writer, director, musician and “How I Met Your Mother” star Josh Radnor joins the show. Over oat milk cortados and bavette steak, I ask him about his new rewatch podcast, How We Made Your Mother, inspired by his wife’s first time watching the series. Josh opens up about the highs and lows of life in an ensemble cast and how, with time and distance, he’s become a genuine fan of the hit sitcom. We dive into everything from his ayahuasca journeys between seasons of the show, to awkward fan encounters. This episode was recorded at Evelina in Fort Greene, Brooklyn. Want next week’s episode now? Subscribe to Dinner’s on Me PLUS. As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, but you’ll also be able to listen completely ad-free! Just click “Try Free” at the top of the Dinner’s on Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. A Sony Music Entertainment & A Kid Named Beckett production. Get 15% off your Saily plan with the code ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠dinnersonme⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Just download the Saily app or head to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://saily.com/dinnersonme⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Stay connected — and don’t miss your dinner reservation. Stay connected — and don’t miss your dinner reservation. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So I'm currently traveling abroad in London, right at the moment, which is why so many of my episodes, I have people with British accents right now. It's amazing here. I love it. And until I need directions or restaurant wrecks or anything, and I've got no Wi-Fi and sky-high roaming fees, which is just, it's not cute. That's why I started using Saly. Saly is an easy-to-use e-Sem app created by the folks behind NordVPN. It gives you instant mobile data. in over 190 countries, and you only have to install it once. That means I didn't have to line up at the airport for a SIM card, get scammed outside the train station, or keep hunting for public Wi-Fi signals like it's a rare Pokemon. Seriously, I sat outside of Wagamama the other day

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Okay, let's be honest, staying hydrated is the only thing keeping me from turning into a raisin these days. That's why Fiji water is always close by. Fiji water really is from the islands of Fiji, 1,600 miles from the nearest continent. It's filtered through ancient volcanic rock, naturally protected from external elements, and it picks up a unique profile of electrolytes and minerals along the way. That gives it more than double the electrolytes of the other top premium bottle water brands, and that soft, smooth taste that I absolutely love. Unlike some other top, premium bottle water brands, Fiji's water electrolytes are 100% naturally occurring, and Fiji's water has a perfect balance 7.7 pH. I have no idea what that means, but I like the word

perfect score, okay? And since 2022, Fiji's waters 330 and 500 milliliter bottles have been made with 100% recycled plastic. So whether I'm backstage, at home with the kids, or planning our podcast recording. I know I'm hydrating the Earth's finest way. Fiji water. It's Earth's finest water. Hi, it's Jesse. Today on the show, you know him as Ted Mosby on How I Met Your Mother. And the co-hosts of The Rewatch podcast, How We Made Your Mother, it's Josh Radner. I have a friend who says showbiz is literally like, it's like a prison spotlight, like trying to catch, you know, the escapees. That's a great metaphor. And he said sometimes, it just lands on you. And he said when it lands on you, just make sure you're doing good work.

This is Dinner's on Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. You guys, I wrote a city bike here today. I came in from Manhattan over the Manhattan Bridge into Fort Green, which happens to be my old neighborhood. This is the neighborhood I lived in 15 years ago before I ever left New York to go to Los Angeles to become a TV icon. Now this is a neighborhood I lived in, and it's so exciting to be back in this area in this restaurant that I actually have not been in in probably over 15 years. I used to come here all the time. I am here to talk with my friend Josh Radner, and we have so much to talk about. We obviously both share history and the fact that we were on a huge sitcom for a very

long time, and we are very known as certain people to a large majority of the population. I'm very excited to talk to him about those years on how I met your mother, but also about his rewatch podcast, how we made your mother, which he just started doing. I'm sitting at Evealina in Fort Green. It's a spot that feels like a cozy European bistro teleported straight to Brooklyn. The vibe is warm. It's inviting.

It makes you want to linger over a glass of wine or maybe one of their Shakespearean cocktails that they have heard so much about and maybe talk about things that you didn't plan to talk about, which is exactly my plan with my guest, Josh Radner. After all, you know, many of how I met your mother's iconic scenes happened over drinks and snacks at McLaren's pub, which is a fictional New York City hangout. So what better way to chat with Josh over a meal at an actual New York hangout? Evelyna in Fort Green. And honestly, I think Evelyn could give McLaren's pub food a run for its money.

I am looking at the Bucatini with aged ricotta. I've actually had the Bavette steak with hazelnut romesco. It's delicious. But I think I'm I'm in the peach salad with strachitella. Maybe add some grilled chicken to that. Okay, I'm officially salivating. Let's get to the conversation. I was at the opening of 12th night, and you were so goddamn, can we say?

Yeah. God damn funny. They're fucking funny. You really were hilarious. and my wife wanted me to tell you that just everything you did made her laugh. I mean, truly, she was laughing. And you know this, but opening night audiences

can sometimes be horrible. The worst, actually. The worst, truly. Yeah. And you are all great. Yeah. Are you having fun doing it? I'm having a ball.

I'm having a lot of melancholy around it too because actually today is my, hi. Hey, how are you? I'm good. Thanks for letting us do this here. Yeah. You're a regular, right, Josh? I'm a regular.

I live. I live half a block that way. Great. We're going to... It's here all the time. I assume. I've been here, but I used to live a block away on Lafayette. No way.

Yeah. I love that. You probably already know what you're on. Can I get an Americano with some half and half? Yeah. Yeah, great. Sounds good. Thanks.

I'll do, I do want some coffee. I'm going to do like a quartado. Like, not like a cortado. Literally a quartado. Yes. Amazing. In terms of breakfast, I mean, the pancakes are delicious. The omel, it's amazing.

Yeah. Kind of when we do here is make a lot of our stuff in-house and just do like seasonal front ingredients so like the strachita cheese on the omelet is super fresh. We homemade our sour-go bread, but yeah, and then lunch menu items. Thank you. The peach salad is delicious. Beaches are in season. So it's with like guinea ribbons. You know it's very good if you want a pasta.

The popper deli is really. Yeah. And all of our pasta are made in-house also. You really can't go wrong with any of them. But yeah, our popper deli is definitely the most popular. I think I definitely want to actually do a peach salad. Yeah, it's really good. Is that a meal or should I get something else?

I mean, how hungry are you? I'm kind of hungry. Yeah, I mean, if you want it, sometimes people like to do like a side of grilled chicken or something and add it to the salad. That's what I'm going to do. I'm going to do that. Yeah, I like that.

That's what I'm doing. I did it. Can you add chicken to the grain bowl? Yeah, of course. Yeah? Let me do that. You can leave off the egg. No, sorry.

I want the steak. Yeah, it's great. I want the steak. No potatoes. Can you double the brocolini? Yes. Awesome. No, I was going to say I'm a little melancholy around this job because, well, for lots of reasons. One of them is I'm turning 50 this year, and I got my equity card doing the Delicourt Theater when I was 21 years old.

Yeah. And I'm happy with, like, you know, being a part of this play. New York, it feels very, I don't know, I feel, I feel very, I feel very blessed that I was chosen to be a part of it. And I think that there's a reason why I get to be a part of this play, because I think it's, it definitely feels like it's marking the end of, I don't know, a chapter. Well, also 50 will do that to you too. Yeah, well, I think that's the big thing for me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Being this age is, like, really fascinating. Like, I felt like I had gotten very used to being young. Yeah. And now that I'm, I don't think I'm old, but I'm not young. It's just this weird middle, there are these middle years that are really strange. Yeah, it's interesting. And like the thing you said about, you know, just economy of time and like really making sure that what you were doing with your time and your energy is something that feels worthy is, is, is, it's an interesting exercise for me.

Like, it's something I haven't had to do until kids. And I think, you know, even, well, I guess even like getting married, I feel like there was, you know, the minute you sort of bring someone else into your life in a really meaningful way like that, you have to, you know, really weigh how your choices are affecting them. I mean, you're really recently married. You probably are feeling a lot of this as well. I mean, I don't know, it's just been a very interesting transitional. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, marriage has been a whole, like, misconception of myself.

Yeah. you know and it's been mostly like completely delightful but i think i was afraid of being answerable to someone like my time like i got very used to my time right but also like getting married at what 49 yeah i got married at 49 yeah i mean so much of your life has happened i mean totally yeah you really i mean get stuck in your ways and like and not a bad way like but you become and grooved and like you know yeah do you know Elaine de Baton have you heard any of his like

he's a Swiss philosopher but he gave a great TED talk it's called Why You Will Marry the Wrong Person and he does say there's a benefit I don't know if he says it's in his talk but he says there's a benefit to getting partnering up a little bit older and one of them is you know

your insanity is your own so like if you get married very young you might blame your partner for things that when you're otherwise older, like at my age I could go, just to warn you, Sundays I get a little funky and blue, it's not you, right? But if you're younger and you don't have enough evidence that, like, that's what happens to me on Sundays, you might be like, why are you driving me crazy?

Yeah. Why are you making me sad, right? Like, you can own your own stuff a little bit more when you get older. Yeah, it's just familiarity with who you are. Yeah. Yeah. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we return, Josh discusses the highs and lows of working in an ensemble cast

and shares his wife's reaction to watching How I Met Your Mother for the first time. Okay, be right back. You know how much I love food, and lately I've been obsessed with this one thing from Boar's Head. Sweet Bees, a honey barbecue glazed chicken breast. The name alone makes me hungry. Oh, it's so good. It's honey drizzled and barbecue sizzled, and honestly, it tastes. exactly like that sounds. It's slow roasted, layered with this proprietary glaze that has wildflower

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I mean, it's weird because I feel like we're friendly, but we don't haven't, we've never spent time on this. We've never done this. Yeah. Well, there are also those people in show business that you feel like, forgive the, like you feel like they're in the same class as you. Like, I feel like if we were, if this was high school,

like we're in the same grade. Right, right, right, right. Because we kind of started around the same time. We like, similar weird destabilizing, but cool things happen to us around the same era. Yeah. You know. But anyway, go on.

What were you saying? But I was just going to say, what I've, what I've found a lot of comfort in as I was researching you, I bet, and just like listening to your musings on your time with how I mentioned another is how honest you have been about the complications that was, how complicated that was for you. Yeah. And it's something, you were able to, I don't know, you've really been able to. to articulate the complications of how, you know, sort of the duality of how complicated that is with how also amazing and awesome that is to have a job like that.

And I think the way you've spoken about it has always, you've had a really lovely balance of both appreciation for the opportunity, but also deep honesty with how it's, you know, made you feel and i i found that all extremely refreshing and then to know that you know that i mean you know as uh as i've been doing this podcast it started off with like me just asking my friends to do it and like you know i was like i don't know what we're going to talk about but now that i've been doing it for a while like a lot of people come onto this podcast because they have something to talk

about and one of the things that you know we want to talk about with you is this this rewatch podcast that you're doing with how I met your mother. So I love that, like, now we're in this moment where you're kind of reclaiming that moment of your life in a different way and reframing it through a podcast that you're sharing with the fans and you're sharing with the people that kind of puts you on that pedestal and changed your life in a lot of ways for good

and maybe also for bad. I don't know, maybe not for bad, but you know for in a way that the way I think of it is thanks for saying all that by the way but I feel like I'm old enough to understand like everything has like

a tax on it or like a little bit of a shadow like nothing is unqualified like purely good purely bad like everything is kind of like an interesting mix and if you if you kind of like get a win in this area it's kind of like

there's going to be a little tax in another area. Yeah. I don't know. That's the only way I can describe it. And what we went through and which we still feel the ramifications of, you know, kind of daily is really strange and really special. And also, there's very few people you can kind of like talk about the deep kind of gray of that thing.

You know, it's like even in like interviews. is as a cast, like, you all have to love each other, you know? I mean, that's just the truth. Like, no one wants to hear, like, they're at each other. Oh, they do want to hear that. You're not going to say that. And the truth is, if you're on a show for nine, ten years, you're not at your best every day. No.

Other people are not at their best every day. No. You see a lot of life in those people, in yourself. 100%. And, but you have to kind of, like, sell it to the public, like, oh, every day is a hoot. You know, like as if the whole thing is just a blooper reel. That's not being filmed as just all the bloopers and stuff. But at the same time, I felt like I was on this decade-long quest to be like, I'm not that dude.

But at the same time, the podcast came up because I got married. My wife had never seen the show. She'd never seen a single episode. And it's hilarious because she's a real TV watcher. But for some reason, that was just one she missed. And it was actually really helpful in getting to know her because she had no mistaken. sense of my identity. Did she know that she were

famous? Yes. Okay. Yes. And she quickly learned like if we were going to be out or at an airport people were going to maybe approach me. And that was something she had to really adapt to because she's a psychologist. Like she didn't have a public kind of profile to her life.

But she wanted to watch the show and it had been 20 years since it premiered and I called Greg Thomas, who I remained very dear friends with one of the creators. And I said, do you want to, I'm going to re-watch the show. Do you want to do something a little more formal and kind of like have some conversations on the record about this strange time in our lives and what it was like and what it meant? And so we've done the first season and I've actually been really delighted and it's been quite healing for me. Because I don't know if you went through this, but like, especially in the early seasons, I was incredibly hard on myself.

and I found it, I found myself, I found it hard to watch myself. And now I'm watching it with some distance and some, like, more tenderness and compassion for myself. And I'm like, you were doing a really good job. You were doing a really good job in a really hard role. And it's like whatever boot I had on my own neck around it has kind of released. And I've just been like, oh, I get why people love this show. I get why they're connected to my character. Like, I've been able to look at it much more compassionately.

kind of almost like, I love this thing, to compare myself to the Beatles for a moment, but I, Paul McCartney was, I heard this thing that he struggled with the Beatles for a long time and kind of similar, like he felt so eclipsed by it, and he wanted to kind of do his own thing and come out from under the shadow of it. And finally, he just made some peace with it. And when people say, I'm such a fan of the Beatles, he says, I am too. And I find that, there's something so tender about that, right? And generous. Like generous, like, oh, I love it, too.

And also, it was bigger than me, right? Yeah. Like, I'm not, I couldn't create this global hit show on my own. Like, I needed those four other actors, all the guest stars, all those writers, all the props people, all the scripts. You know, like everyone, you know, the one thing we try to do on the show is, is give people a sense of what the ecosystem of a set is like. And that it's not just us improvising, or it's not a documentary, they're not following us around. highly scripted, many rewrites, the network and studio are weighing in, like, I want people to understand, like, this is how you make something, like, this is how we made this thing that you loved so much. Yeah.

And even I'm learning stuff that I didn't know, like, how they arrive to certain bits in the writer's room and how they have all these callbacks and all this stuff. So I've been totally fascinated by it. It's been really fun. Has it given you a sense of nostalgia in a way that? Not in the way that I want to be back there doing it again, but I'd like, I don't know. if you feel this way, and it doesn't even have to be a series, but I'd like another thing that is, like, great and watched and beloved it. Like, for sure, I think you can tell actors who are terrified of the spotlight moving elsewhere, and I never wanted to be one of those actors who was like, don't forget about me, you know? Yeah. I have a friend who says showbiz is literally

like, it's like a prison spotlight, like trying to catch, you know, the escapees. That's a great metaphor. And he said, sometimes it just lands on you. And he said, when it lands on you, just make sure you're doing good work. That's a great metaphor. Isn't that so good? It's so good. I love that. Yeah.

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. After the break, Josh reflects on the remarkable journal entry he wrote before his rise to fame. And together, we recall fan interactions that brought us to tears. Okay, be right back. Vacation season is nearly upon us. And this year, you know, I'm treating myself. to Lux upgrades that I deserve with Quince's high-quality

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And listeners of this show will get a $75-sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at Indeed.com slash dinners on me. Just go to Indeed.com slash dinners on me right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash dinners on me. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring, Indeed is all you need. And we're back with more dinners on me. I love that, you know, the impetus for it is, you know, your wife has never watched, you know, any of the episodes. First of all, I want to know what she thinks of it. She's really loving it. I remember there was one episode where she was like, I'm in.

Like, it hooks you emotionally, and it's kind of around episode seven or eight of the first season. You can feel it. Like, all the things come together, and it's like, oh, this is really quite an emotional journey. She's a binger, though. Like, she likes to sit and watch many episodes, and we're doing one a week. So she's kind of having to be patient in a way she's not used to, but she's excited to watch the second season. Yeah. Yeah.

When you were starting off your career, I mean, where, you've conquered so many different, I don't know if I conquered is the right word, but you've, you have found success and traction in so many different facets of this industry with music and with writing and directing. I love your movies, Josh. Thanks, man. I'm really, that's mostly what I'm wanting to do. I mean, I think you're a great director. You're a fantastic writer. I'm in awe of the fact that you have not only written and directed, but also starred in those films.

Yeah, I don't want to do that again. I can only imagine that much to be incredibly difficult. But when you were starting off your career, did you have a game plan, or did you have like an idea of, like, what success looked like? I mean, did you know where you want to land? Was it was what you've created? Is this what you imagined?

That's such a great question. You know, for years I told a story about myself that I realized was a bit of a lie. Okay. And the story was I wanted to be a theater actor in New York who like did the occasional law and order but was just really committed to the theater above all things. And then I found these journals.

that I had written and like little pep talks to myself and I actually was envisioning a bigger career bigger meaning by coastal that involved TV and film just more varied I don't mean I think the theater is like the best but I did have my eye on the prize a little bit more than I but I had this story I think it's being from the Midwest is a very like don't brag don't you know what I mean and I've struggled with some of that through my

Columbus Ohio But it's got a kind of tall poppy thing going. So I felt like I had to disguise my ambition. But I was, I remember when I did the, my Broadway debut, I took over for Jason Biggs for a couple months in the graduate, Kathleen Turner. And they wanted me to come back and take over the role. And I told someone, I can't do this because I got to go out to L.A. and get a hit TV show so I can do all the theater I want.

Yeah. Like I had this idea, and I think some of it was from, because I went to NYU to the grad acting program, and there was this bulletin board, like the alumni board, you know, where they put up like what the alumni are doing in the world. Yeah. And, you know, there's reviews and good reviews are highlighted and profiles on people and all these magazines. And I would stare at it and I was just like, am I going to be on that board? Like, am I going to be up there? You know, because I wanted my training to have, be fruitful. Right. You know, I wanted, I wanted. I wanted. I wanted. a good career so I don't know I think that yes I wanted to be on a big TV show I wanted I even said this to myself I want to be on a primetime show I want to be the lead I want it to be generationally like defining I want the people who created it to have never done a big hit show before because I think it's kind of lightning in a bottle yeah there were all these weird things that I kind of like put on my little wish list that came true years later I was looking at that, and I realized I forgot to say, and I always say this now

when I put it in an order with the universe, I forgot to say, and I want to enjoy it. Because it took me a while to learn how to enjoy it. Yeah. I was too overwhelmed with how strange and vertigo-inducing the whole hit show thing was. And I also don't know, I don't know if you guys felt this on Modern Family as much as we did. We didn't feel like we were a hit show until

many seasons in. We were a little bit more like, on the bubble, and our demo was young. That's probably a slow burn for your show. Yeah. So it wasn't like, like Friends was like, I remember. It was like episode two, they were international stars. Yeah. And it was insane.

Yeah. We didn't have that. And I think that was to our benefit that we didn't have that because we had this slow and steady, so we could metabolize more of it, like in a, I don't remember. What was your hit showness like? Well, I mean, it's interesting because I had a kind of a, fall start with it because the class was a script that people

really excited about. I think David Crane, who was one of the creators of Friends, was our co-creator. It was directed by James Burroughs, who was a hitmaker in himself. And James Burroughs told us he took the cast of Friends

to Las Vegas the night before the show premiered. Because it was like, this is your last night of anonymity. And you know, he gave him all money to gamble and have fun. He took the cast of Bull and Grace to Palm Springs and did a similar thing. So he flew the cast of the class to Vegas the night before. I think you're saying Sacramento. He could get into getting lower Albuquerque. Sorry, Sacramento. Reno. We went to Vegas and he

gave us money to gamble and like we had a fun dinner and, you know, came back on the Warner Brothers private jet. And it was a whole thing. Like tonight's your last night. of anonymity and then the show premiered and it was it did fine yeah but it wasn't a huge hit and then you know the show ended up getting canceled and like I kept my anonymity pretty much in half yeah and so uh I had already had that sort of false start with it right right that when modern family happened I kind of I don't know I just it took me by surprise that it was such because it was a pretty big hit right out of the gate I remember walking into a restaurant and, like, shortly after Modern Family premiered,

and I was like, you know, maybe 10 people in the restaurant recognized me and perked up. Right. This was a full restaurant. I was like, oh, that's crazy. Yeah. But, you know, then like fast forward three years, I'd walk into a restaurant like that, and like 99% of the people, even if they hadn't watched the show, would have recognized me at least. So it was certainly faster than I expected, but.

Also, somewhat of a slow ramp up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You also really get, you get very clearly like, oh, at least then, you're like, this is about advertising money. Yeah. This whole thing is about advertising money and selling things. And you kind of feel like this cog in the capitalist wheel, like pretty strongly. That's how I felt. But I think that I was more than any other, I was more conflicted about all of that stuff and more,

I don't know queasy or like I was more uncomfortable than anyone else on my show I know you know Allie Neal and Jason had like been through the ringer on that I mean Ali had been on TV in Neal also they were pros about it Jason always made me laugh because he it was like he didn't take

any of it seriously and he would kind of like he was a clown like if anyone came up to him and they're like you won't remember this but and they would say dot dot dot he would always go I do I do I do, yes. And it was like a random thing that he would never remember.

Like, he just had fun with it in a way that I was like, I don't think I could do that. It was a little more like trickster energy. Like he just didn't care about that stuff, but he acted like he was caring. It was a really interesting magic trick he was doing. I just run a little more sincere than that.

But it kind of like, I think I worshiped, I think I didn't have like a deity or a religion or a theology that was as meaningful to me as theater. Like theater to me, when I discovered it felt like like empty theaters were my cathedrals. You know, I just was so moved by the whole process of people gathering and telling stories in the dark.

I just thought it was the coolest thing ever. And it really taught me how to be an emotionally expressive person because I didn't learn that in my family. You know, so it was like, it saved me in a lot of ways. But then when I got success, I realized that the shoulders of success were not big enough to support what I was actually looking for. So it drove me on like a deeper spiritual journey.

I started going down to South America and doing ayahuasca, like every second I could do, you know, fine. And I was just looking for something deeper. But yeah, I just, I think in some ways success is really good to happen when you're relatively young because it disabuses the idea that it will save you. So if you can get that out of the way, I mean, there's people 60, 70, 80 in Hollywood who never had a run like we had, and they, I don't know, I can't speak for them, but I imagine there's people that thought, well, if I had been on a hit show, like one of those, things would have worked out for me.

And I just had to, I had to acknowledge that, like, the thing I thought would save me didn't save me. And in fact, it gave me new problems that I didn't foresee. So then I really had to get on with the business of, like, what really will bring meaning to my life? what will really bring me satisfaction and weirdly it's still it's still storytelling yeah like it's not it's not like i had to uh throw it all overboard and become a fisherman or something like it's still in the area i had a sense about when i was like 16 right but it's just like it's um it's it's it's got a different fuel to it's not like i need the world to love me because i i didn't feel properly seen or witnessed when i was a kid whatever story there is you know it's now like

I don't know. I really like telling stories and sharing ideas and things like me up. And I just want to keep doing it, you know. But in a different way. Does that make sense? You totally. Yeah. Totally. And how, I mean, how has it been with 10 years to go back to something and, I don't know, like, reunite with the creators and also experience it with, you know, the person you're sharing your life with now?

I mean, are there, like, what, I guess, what are the things that, like, you, that spark you, that spark a lot of joy in you when you're thinking about the show? Like, what are there specific moments? Are there, are there interactions with the cast? Like, I mean, for me, like, when I watch an episode of Modern Family, if I happen to see it on TV, I'm not really watching the show. I'm enjoying the show, but what I'm really seeing is, like, all the stuff, that day. That day. That day, it's like, I'm, I crash cut back into that day. Yeah.

And stuff that I never thought I would have remembered, all of a sudden I remember. Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of that. I think the greatest thing, especially what we're doing on the show, and this was an idea I had that I'm really loving, is we open it with like a voice note. I was just going to mention that. From like a fan, you know.

We had on this last episode that just aired, did you listen to it? I did. The letter from the trans person. was such a beautiful letter and I felt like me and Craig's discussion but especially Craig's kind of stuff was so beautiful. Yes.

And I think like in some ways like we're still telling the story of how I made a mother. It's just like we're adding an additional like almost oral history to the whole thing. So we're, I just think Craig's journey around like with his son

and like certain jokes that were on the show that he never thought about before. but also like I love that letter Jesse I think was the person's name but like I loved how I met your mother even when it felt like how I met your mother

didn't quite love me and just how when you're lost and you feel alone a show about a group of friends in New York City can feel like this fire

like this campfire that you can gather around and warm yourself and hear this story and it teaches, you know, we've heard from autistic people who are like, how am I your mother taught me about social cues? Like, I didn't understand certain things. Like, there's just this weird way you don't realize you're contributing to culture. Yeah.

And, you know, you can think, okay, it's a silly sitcom and you can disregard it. But the truth is, like, I don't know what shows you grew up watching, but, like, family ties, like, meant a lot to me when I was a kid. Yeah. You know, certain shows meant a lot to me, and they taught me a lot. And maybe some of those lessons were, like,

I had to unlearn them. Right. There's all these things that the show carried, these lessons. Yeah. That I'm like, I was a part of that. I'm really, I'm grateful to be a part of that.

And they were things I was thinking about as I was going through that. Like, Craig and Carter and I are about the same age. You know, we were in college around the same time. I love that our show was one of the first shows to parody the 90s. Like, it was just far enough away from the 90s to look at the 90s as a period piece and to kind of like make fun of some of those things.

And you don't realize that you're living in a period piece when you're living in it. Like our clothes might seem ridiculous one day. Right. I mean, these are timeless classics we're wearing today. But like, the other thing is there's something very meta about the meta, meta, meta thing, which is Craig and I are nearing the age where the narrator was when he looked back on this pivotal time in his life. And the pivotal time in our lives was making the show about the show about the,

this fictional guy's pivotal time in his life. So we're now looking back on it with these older, wiser eyes and kind of narrating it for ourselves. You know what I'm saying? It's wild. It's like a lot of postmodern layers. Absolutely.

Yeah. I was just on my ride over here. I was listening to the first episode because I didn't start there. I started farther in of your podcast. And I actually was in tears in the last few minutes of it because you read a letter

from a 17 year old kid who talks about how he just finished watching the series for the third time and he cried for the third time and he feels like he needs to tell you how important the show is to you and he understands it seems like he understands that it's a complicated

relationship that you have with that period of your life and it was really moving I know because you think about a 17 year old kid that's such a pivotal time. You can feel so alone with these big emotions and then sees a character on TV who has these big emotions, who's also the hero.

You know, even though Ted was constantly, you know, knocked down and goofy and unbearable sometimes, he's ultimately the hero. Yeah. And I found that it was really hard sometimes to be, 2005 was still, like male vulnerability wasn't exactly in vogue. Then, you know, and there was something about playing a heart on your sleeve character who was quick to cry,

but it also lent him so many heroic. He was such a loyal friend, and he was an emotional guy. I also feel like I'm delighted by the fact that it's not just urban New Yorkers who like the show. Like, it is a global show. It was, like, very specific and of its time, but, like, I hear from women all the time.

We say, oh, I relate to Ted so much. Yeah, I get that all the time with Cam and Mitch. I love it. Straight couples say, like, my husband's. such a mid, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I find it so incredible to have a character, like, become a cultural shorthand for something. Yes, you know? Yeah. Um, I just, I don't know, I, I don't know why I was, I really still, I don't know how much I'm fighting this fight anymore, but it's so clear to me that I was playing a character. And I still

want that to be honored. Like, I'm, I'm a lot chiller with people who call me Josh than people who call me Ted. Yeah. You know, if you approach me, just like honor, like, I'm with my wife. It's many years later. Yeah. This is my name. Yeah.

This is my dog. Like to create, like, some distance. I'm glad you like it. I'll actually talk to you about it because I like it too. Yeah. But just do me the courtesy. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Do you have any of that? I mean, I remember being in, I think it might have been even after seeing a show in Times Square. I was in, I think I was in Times Square. I was in a very crowded place. And I, sometimes when I'm in places that I feel like are, there's too many eyes on me. I just say, I can't take a little. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because if I start, it's going to turn it to a whole thing.

And the thing that really bothered me, though, is I told this person, it's like, if I take a photo with you, I have to take a picture with all these other people. And they're like, come on, it's, you know, I'm just here for a day. You're the first famous person I've ever seen. And they, I relinquished, and I took the picture. I was immediately annoyed with myself for not standing up for myself and advocating for myself because I was also trying to get somewhere and have my day. And, like, I wasn't able to do that because, and I felt, then I also felt angry at myself for being angry at the situation.

So it's like, this is a very, I'm only in this position because I've had success. And, like, this, it's a very complicated. The loops you can do in your head around that kind of thing. Yeah. Do you know Steve Martin has, like, cards he gives? He won't take photos. Do you know about this? He has business cards that he has.

hands out and it says, this is to certify that you met Steve Martin world famous entertainer and he was delightful and charming. That is incredible. Can we get those made? You can make those. My friend Seth Godin made those kind of cards for me.

Do you use them? No, it was more like he made it seem like it wasn't me. Right. It was like, oh, I get this all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think it's also I think Hugh Lorry said something Like he referenced Steve Martin

He said do people have friends that don't believe them Like you need photographic evidence that you met Steve Martin Like why can't you just say I met Steve Martin today He was really nice Like you need to show the photo I think it's part of also the social media thing Like you and also you take those pictures And you know they're going up on

People's pages And it's just a it's a whole other It's a hornet's nest of self-consciousness I know And you also, you could probably, I don't know if you can think of it on top of your head, but like, some fan interactions are incredibly cool. Incredibly meaningful. Meaningful, yes. Yeah.

And I would rather, the thing I don't like is when I feel like it sounds like you, with this person, where you're literally objectified. Like, you are, you might as well be a cut out mannequin. Yeah. I will say that the most meaningful interactions that I've had with people where they will share a story about a coming out experience or I remember someone telling me a story about how they, they're their mother who is dying of cancer. Like, that was the show they watched together in bed as a family. They watched modern family together. That was, like, what brought them joy in the last moments of their mother's life. There's never a photo at the end of these experiences, though.

No. It's usually just... Because they have enough. They have enough with that, you know? And I would have happily taken... By the way, I would have happily taken a picture with them if they wanted that. But, like, it seemed like that was... They just wanted to share that with me.

And that... Yeah. I always leave those moments completely... First of all, devastated by the fact that there's something I did, It's that important to someone. It's devastated in a good way. Yeah. You know, and also just so grateful that, you know, that I have put something on the world.

That was able to be a tonic for someone in that way. It's very powerful. I met Damien Eccles. Do you know, Damien Eccles? He was one of the West Memphis three. Those three kids that were convicted of, like, the satanic murder. It was a total false railroaded. And they were on death row for like 20 years.

And I did an evening with him at Joe's pub, like a writing kind of evening. and I talked to him backstage, and he told me he was a huge fan of the show. And he watched it all the time in prison on death row. And I said, can I ask you, like, what was it about the show that you responded to? And he said, it was fake enough that it took me away from where I was into this other land, but it was real enough that it promised me a life I could maybe come back to if I ever got out. And I was just, I was bolded over by that. brought the way. Yeah. And you forget that like those things you're doing in a in a kind of moldy

sound stage on the Fox spot are like getting beamed out all over the world and might be the source, the lone source of like lightness or laughter or inspiration in people's lives. And that to me makes the harder day is like really worth it, you know? Yeah. I did want to ask before I let you go. I know that you did uh that she loves me reading. with Kelly O'Hara and Jane Grykowski is our mutual friend. Yes. Also Gavin Creel.

Gavin Creel, the greatest. The greatest. And I just, you know, I think about him every day. I lost, I mean, I lost my mom around the same time that Gavin passed away. And so it was a very, I don't know, like having, losing someone who was at the end of their life, who I knew was, I was going to lose. And then bookending that with someone who, was at the peak of their career and had so much life still was a very, I mean, it was hard for all of us who loved Gavin, but it was, it put my mom's passing into perspective in a way that I had never, I didn't really expect it to.

I was just asked, I just want to know if like, I don't know, do you have any thoughts about Gavin? I mean, I didn't know. I mean, it was so fast. I didn't know he was sick. Yeah. So when I saw the news, I had to read it like five times. I was like, how can this be? Like, it had this surreal. Like, this doesn't feel right.

It feels like the universe made a mistake. But I loved that guy so much. And he was, you know, when you, there's something about doing theater that feel, it must, I don't want to overstate this, but like, how military people fall. Like, you're really in the trenches together. and you get close so fast, you know. And I think when I did it, I was still in my, like, let's only talk about ayahuasca phase. And Gavin really wanted to know.

He was really curious about that. But I just found him, I remember him seeing me in disgraced. You know, he would just show up. He was just a guy who showed up. And he... Discraised being a play, not a state of mind. Yes, I was very disgraced. I was filled with shame and he showed up.

but I just I just loved that guy I just loved that guy and I you you hear so many you know everyone had the same kind of everyone I don't want to say this in any way

that flattens him but like everyone knew the same guy like his public and his private face were like the same you know there was no like duplicitous like he's one way this way and he's another way he was just the same with people and so fucking talented yeah like so goddamn talented and so effortlessly

like sparkly and handsome and a great like the way he moved on stage I just I found him so watchable and I just found him so delightful I just loved him yeah we're so lucky that he was a part of our lives I'm so glad to get to talk about him I haven't really been able I haven't talked about him publicly I mean I posted

about him when he died and everything but like he he was just the guy you want in your production and in your life yeah you know incredible yeah yeah really special yeah um i'm glad you did this i love your podcast i love that you're watching the show that i mean i loved and i think you have so many people obviously have such a very beautiful relationship with the show and i think it's really lovely that you're

revisiting it with some space and time yeah i'm and i do love the way you disseminate not just the episodes themselves but sort of like the cultural meaning of like what this means to watch the show now. What we got wrong. What you got wrong, what you got right. What, uh, it's,

it's, it's, it just feels, it feels very timely and it, it's really refreshing to listen to, uh, you all sort of, you know,

dive into, to, oh, that's nice. I had a line in, in happy, thank you more please, the first film, uh,

where one of the characters said, you realize, every five years, you realize what an asshole you were five years ago. Yes. And I think there's something about, like, revisiting, like, when I look back at my younger years or even stuff I wrote or, you know, even stuff no one saw, it's like, if you're growing and evolving, it should make you blush a little bit. You should be like, who said that? Like, that was, what an idiot.

Yeah, totally. Because we're constantly revising ourselves, you know? I think that, I think it's, it's good to revisit those times and say, like, you did okay, kid, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you did.

Thanks, man. Let me know when you rewatch Modern Family. I want to hear what it's like. This episode of Dinner's On Me was recorded at Evalina in Fort Green, Brooklyn. Next week on Dinner's On Me, you know where is Cora Crowley in Downton Abbey, and from 80s and 90s classics like Ordinary People and Ragtime, which earned her an Oscar nomination. It's Elizabeth McGovern.

We'll talk about her early days in Hollywood, including her childhood BFF, who became a celebrated, director, her connection with Robert Redford and other Hollywood royalty and how she feels about Downton Abbey wrapping up. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinner's On Me Plus. As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad free. Just click try free at the top of the Dinners On Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today.

Dinner's On Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcalf. Sam Bear engineered this episode. Hans Dale She composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison.

Special thanks to Tamika Balanced Kalasney and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week. You know how much I love food, and lately I've been obsessed with this one thing from Boar's Head, sweet bees' honey barbecue glazed chicken breast. The name alone makes me hungry. Oh, it's so good.

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