Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - Keri Russell

Episode Date: July 9, 2024

"The Diplomat” and “The Americans” star Keri Russell joins the show. Over salmon and a glass of Sancerre (over ice), Keri tells me about aging out of the “Mickey Mouse Club,” an iconic bathroom run-in at the Golden Globes, and what it’s like to hang out with the Obamas. This episode was recorded at Cecconi’s Dumbo in Brooklyn, NY. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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So try it while you can, only at Starbucks. Hi, it's Jesse. Today on this show, you might know her from the Americans, the diplomat, or the Mickey Mouse Club. It's Keri Russell. What is it called, like, when someone sends you a picture but it's moving? I guess. Thank you. I still have AOL. I know, I know.

This is Dinners on Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. When you're an actor, being a fan of someone before working with them can be a dangerous thing sometimes. There have been a few actors I have been very excited to meet who, you know, haven't lived up to the image I had of them in my head. And I mean listen, why should they? I'm an advocate of people always being their

genuine selves and why should anyone feel pressure to be a version of a person who people want them to be? But you know, sometimes you get to work with people who don't only meet your expectations, they somehow exceed them. This is how I felt when I first got to know Carrie Russell. We properly met on my first day of filming the movie Cocaine Bear. Now listen, I was pretty fresh off of finishing binge watching The Americans

and to say I was starstruck would be an understatement, but within seconds of saying hello, she immediately put me at ease with her self-effacing humor and laid-back ease. And by 6 p.m. that night, I was having beers with Carrie in the local pub and chatting as if we'd already had years of shared history. Part of the job of being an actor is having to jump into relationships with other actors, and sometimes it can take a lot of work. And sometimes, in the case of Carrie, it's effortless.

On the day of this episode, Carrie texted me that she had just popped on a city bike fresh from a photo shoot and would be five minutes late, so I decided to do a little last minute research. And of course, she walks up on me as I'm watching clips from one of her very first jobs. Look at, come over here. This is what I'm watching right now. What are you watching? I need my glasses real quick.

Wait, where is it? That's Carrie. Oh! Could my hair be bigger? Could my hair be freaking bigger? Oh my God! Nope. I mean, Carrie's hair is literally

90s pop culture legend, but I digress. I brought this Mouseketeer to Chikoni's Dumbo, a spot where she's a familiar face. Now, a Brooklynite might possibly get a sighting of her at this bar during a night out with one of her girlfriends, a night that her son affectionately refers to as Mom's Gone Wild. Cicconi's is known for its Italian classics, handmade pastas and woodfired pizzas that you literally see pulled out of the oven when you walk in.

But what makes this one spot, this specific space so special, is its location. It's right on the waterfront in Dumbo, which the neighborhood is aptly named for, for being down under the Manhattan Bridge overpass. That's what Dumbo stands for. Housed in an old coffee warehouse from the 1860s, you can enjoy your grilled octopus in a glass of Sancerre

while sitting on its patio or gazing out its window as boats float by. You can also distract other patrons by loudly playing the Mickey Mouse Club opening on your iPhone. Okay, let's get to the conversation. Hi. Hi. What was the photo shoot for? Okay, so I really, I don't enjoy doing photo shoots. Me either. Because of this show, I haven't done any, they always say, hey, will you do this photo shoot?

I go, I can't, I'm really busy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I have to do something else. And so it's gone too long now, it's been like two years, and we don't have any new pictures of you. I'm like. They're using your Mickey Mouse clip. Which is fine.

They're like, your hair is less curly. So I said, okay, so they said, will you come do a photo shoot that we can just take a bunch of these pictures and then like put them out with whatever. I said, how quick can it go? Like stock photos. Yeah, stock photos.

Hilarious. Hilarious. But you're also really good at wiggling out of things you don't want to do. Because I've been, I've tried to get you to out of things you don't want to do. Because I've tried to get you to do things that you don't want to do. Like what? Like go see Waitress the musical.

I would go see it. I know. I do have genuine, my eyes are still watering from that eyeliner. I do have genuine interest in seeing it. I did, because now it's done, right? It's done now, yeah. You know it's streaming.

Okay. And also I promised Sara Bareilles that I would somehow get you to watch. But so I, when we did Cocaine Bear together, I asked you if you had seen Waitress Musical because I did love it so much and you were like, no, I don't want to go. And the reasons were all actually really super valid.

Like you didn't want people watching you watching it. That would be weird. That's true. I'm all circling back to how you like to wiggle out of things. I do wiggle out of things. And it was like two days before we were gonna go, and you're like, I have got to bathe my children's hair. It's so naughty.

And do you know how long it takes to comb it out? It's true, it's true. I wiggle out of things. Yeah, I'm just telling you it exists in a way you can't watch it. Sarah, I will watch it. Yeah, I mean, of course I want you to see it because, well, you were in the movie,

but I don't know, I think it's so cool that you were a part of something that then had this whole other life as this really great musical. And then it's Sara Bareilles, who's like an incredible songwriter. Who's awesome, yes, yes. It exists because you put it out there in the world,

and so I just want you, but I really wanna watch it with you. Oh God, no, I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. I'd be so embarrassed. I'd be so embarrassed. I love that I'm not even in it, and I'm still embarrassed. I know, I know, I know, I know.

Have you done, the last time I saw you was with, when was the last time we saw each other? I think it was when you came to see Take Me Out. You were so good in that. Didn't I bring Matthew? You came twice. Yeah, I brought Matthew. Yeah, because you came once at the Helen Hayes, and. And then when we transferred to the bigger theater you brought Matthew.

Yeah. You were so good. And the story behind that, I love that. Yeah. That was so special. I know, I'm so happy you came. And hi. Hi, welcome. Welcome back. Thank you. I was just here last night. Were you really? Yeah. I know you love this place. Because it was River's 17th birthday and so I said where do you want to go? I'll take you anywhere. And he's like, Chaconis. I said, okay. I know you love Chaconis.

Yeah, true. Your wish is my command. Okay. And may I please order a glass of Sancerre? Absolutely. And really tackily. I know, I don't know what's happened. I've turned into a soccer mom.

And could I, get ready for this, get a glass of ice as well. Oh, shit. Yeah, shit, it's all, yeah, I'm going all the way. You're just gonna dump it right into our glass of ice, aren't you? Real class act now. I love it.

It's summer. It is summer. Does Margot put ice in hers? No. Yeah, I think she does. She probably does. Just however goes down. We need, yeah, that's the fucking truth. Do you have non-alcoholic beer? I think she just. She probably does. Just however goes to the easiest. Yeah, that's the fucking truth. Do you have non-alcoholic beer?

I'm afraid not. Oh, god damn it. You don't have to join me, don't worry. I'll just do sparkling water right now. Yeah, sparkling for them. Yeah. Good with sparkling as well. I'll have tap water, please.

Thanks. We need a dinner, you, me, and Margot. I know, I know. Yeah, I'm doing this. It's also plop plop. Plop plop. Theop, plop, sorry. The plopping sounds you hear is the highest. This is what you're hearing as a class act,

Keri Russell class act. Plopping ice cubes. I don't know what happened. It just happened the last year. Wow. I know, all my girlfriends are like, super cold white wine. Did you say white wine?

Yeah, yeah. I was like, uh-huh. Yeah, I'm adding more. Yeah, yeah, that's right. I'm adding all of it. All of it. All of it. it's all happening. Okay, let me look really quick.

Okay. Pause for just a second. That's man. As you're starting to check out food, just a few quick notes from the kitchen. Tell us. Yes please, okay. We're currently sold out of the ravioli

and the chicory salad. Did you want either one of those, Kerry? No. Okay, we're good. Fantastic, we're safe. We can stay, we can stay. Good, good, well scrap the whole thing. Yeah.

My name is Sam, let me know if you have any questions about it. Do you know what you want? Thanks, Sam. Yeah, are you ready to dive in? I have to admit, I order almost all the time the rigatoni, but I'm gonna change it up. What'd you get last night?

Last night, I had the branzino. Oh. But I think. That kinda sounds nice. It was, it was nice and light. It's a warm out. I think I'm going to order the salmon, please. Very nice. Anything that caught your eye?

I am going to do the branzino. It's nice. It's nice. And the olives are nice and salty. And also, if Kerry's plate that she didn't finish last night is just lying around, I'll just take that. Yeah, he should have that. Yeah. Stab right in. Mm-hmm. Yeah, he should have that. Yeah.

Just dive right in. Mm-hmm. All right. God, my eyes are bad. Are they? Can you not? Because I just took this off and I don't know. I know. Well, no, mine, yeah, definitely.

The last season of Modern Family, all the other actors, all the other adult actors had to like pull out their glasses every time we had a table read. Yeah. And I was like, oh, we'll never be there. And like literally the last season, I was like, it's time.

And I had to get my readers out. I know. I know. I know it happens. It happens. But we're all in it together. I actually, I don't mind getting older. I mean, so far it's okay.

We're still. We're really cute. We're cute enough. Very, very cute. We're really cute. I mean, I'm cute enough for what I need. Do you know what I mean? I don't want to be 18 anymore.

I don't even want to be in my 20s anymore. I think the 40s and I hope the 50s are good. Yeah, no, I agree with you. Because Justin is 10 years younger than me, a lot of his friends are also that age, and I see some of them kind of scared about getting older. And I'm already on the other side of, way on the other side of 40 and it's great.

It is great. Don't worry about this. Don't worry about it. Because there's literally nothing you can do about it. That's right. Unless you want to like staple your face or something. Which, you know, we'll wait and see how. Doesn't end well.

Yeah. I mean, I guess for the few who, I don't know, go to some secret place in Paris. Right, right, right. But I don't know. You wouldn't secret place and pair us. Right, right, right. But I don't know. You wouldn't want to go back to the Mickey Mouse Club? I was a great dancer. Yeah, yeah.

I was actually, for real, like the worst person. The worst, the least talented kid on that show. I really mean that. I'm not like. I've heard you say that before, but. But it's the truth. It's the truth. How, because your parents weren't involved.

Your mom was a stay at home mom. Your dad worked for a car company. Your son, yeah, just like a regular job. Right, but how, so how did you even know that you wanted, first of all to be a dancer, but then also that the Mickey Mouse Club was a thing that you could do? Through dance, because I was living in Colorado at the time.

I moved around a lot, and some of my friends were going to a giant casting call for Disney at the downtown Denver Convention Center. And I went, I stood in line and did my little nerdy, you know, dance and they had me read a little skit, like about a mermaid brushing her teeth or something with chocolate or something stupid like that. And then I just happened to get it and that's like how I got it.

So I think they were just, I think back then, Disney was looking for kids that were kind of normal. Yeah, well it's interesting because I mean, I completely forgot that you were in the Mickey Mouse Club, and it's how we were, how? It's my gold, it's my gold. How dare you? It's the most special thing about me.

First of all, I didn't have cable, so I don't even think I watched it. I wouldn't have been able to watch it either. But then when we were working together, you were telling me that. I was like, oh yeah, I forgot that you were one of those people that came out of that show. But also, you just don't strike me as a kid celebrity.

And I feel the same way about Cynthia Nixon. She also had great success when she was very young. but she's grown up to be a very serious like, you know like disciplined actor and I mean do you is it Weird to you that you like you've got it kind of evaded any sort of it is so bizarre That we were the people in your final season was Britney Spears. Justin Timberlake Christina Aguilera, Ryan Reynolds. Not Ryan Reynolds, Gosling. I saw Joanna shaking her head out of the corner of my eyes.

The thing is I got to the last name and I was like, I'm gonna go for it, knowing it's probably wrong. She's like, definitely not. And I just saw the head shake, nope. Ryan Reynolds was adjacent though. I felt like he could have been in it. Totally.

He absolutely could have been in the Mickey Mouse Club. It is weird that I was on that. And I feel like probably the only reason we got out alive is I think what's really the creepiest part of kid acting is usually it's one or two kids with all adults. And so that really accelerates the adultification of everything. And for the Mickey Mouse Club, there were 19 of us.

The adults were invisible to me. Like, you know what I mean? Because you all had to have parents. Well, did you? Because you were older. Yeah, you had to have a parent with you. I was 15 to 17. So I think that is what was unique about being a kid actor at such a young age.

So I wasn't completely alone with all the adults. And I think that was helpful. But you also were, I mean, when you left, you were one of the old, like was there a coffee? After you turned 17, you can no longer be on it? Yeah, it's usually like girls who look like they were sexually active. Which probably I was one of the first. They're like, she's out.

She is out. That one is gone? That's incredible. Meanwhile, the boys stayed until they were like 19. No. Yeah, for real. Yes, I was like, by the way, I had sex with that person, so I know that they've had sex. Oh, no.

Yeah, for real. For real. That's incredible. But I think that's how, you know, there's girls and sexuality, like people are like, and by the way, me, I'm like a 12-year-old boy body. There's nothing like really sexy about me. But I think that was what was nervous.

Pregnant Mousketeers aren't on the roster. Right, right, right. So I left at probably 17-ish, and then there were still kids that... Right, right, right, right. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Carrie tells me about why she's hesitant

to watch herself on screen, making peace with the volatile industry, and she reminisces about falling in love with her husband while filming the Americans. Don't you just love it when someone looks at you and says, hmm, something's different about you. What were you up to last night? Well, no matter how late you were up the night before, Lumify Redness Reliever Eye Drops

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on this podcast. Indeed.com slash dinnersonme. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? You need indeed. And we're back with more Dinners on Me. I mean, your next big thing was Felicity, but before that... I remember. I moved to LA at 17. I slept on someone's couch. And then, oh, I did that thing with Dudley Moore and Harvey Fierstein, a sitcom.

Where I played the littlest sister in this show called Daddy's Girls and Dudley Moore played our dad. Uh-uh. Uh-huh. And Harvey Fierstein. Harvey. Harvey Fierstein. Yeah, yep. And it was three sisters and there was no mom, obviously. And I don't, who knows, it was like half of a season

or one season and my hair was still enormous huge massive and a long then you also did I forgot about this dumb Malibu that's right now the short now we sure I had to do a spell and spelling yeah show and so that was it was the era of like 902 I know Melrose place right so he was. So he was like the hot producer. He was the thing. And I had giant hair and just more tan. Just more tan.

Because you were in Malibu. I lived in Malibu. And my mom was Michelle Phillips, who's amazing. How old were you? 18. Wow. Yeah, I drove a big pickup truck with my big hair and I was just, yeah.

When that didn't fly, were you disappointed? Were you? I don't think I cared. You didn't care. I didn't care. That's so big of you, like that age to like not put all your eggs in like one basket. I remember.

You remember really caring. Yeah, but like really caring about those big, felt like big breaks. Yeah. And they didn't pan out. You know what, I feel like this business is so fickle. Yeah. And I feel like that's why it's been okay for me is I'm so okay with the tide.

You know, I'm really okay when I don't work for a really long time because I can spend time with my kids, I can be with my friends, I can show up to like their birthdays, life moments, and then I also really like leaving everybody and going away for a long time and reading my books and going to bed every night at 8.30 p.m. And waking up early and just some days on weekends

when I don't have my family or my kids, I don't talk to a single person and I love it. I love the ebb and flow of it. We're cut from the exact same plot. Really? Oh yeah, I've been here three days without Justin. He's coming in today with my oldest, Beckett. Okay, yeah.

And so I've just been able to do it, and it's the same thing. I've said no to so many people asking me to go out at night. I want to be, like 8.30 starts to feel like, oh it's starting to get time to, Oh, it's time to wind down to, oh the sun's setting. Wind down, get my oil on my face. Wind it down.

I know, I know I do love it. I love all of it, I love the craziness of it and the hard work of it and then I like. Well it's like that's our payoff. That's the payoff. When we get to have our own time, yeah. Oh thanks. All right, here we are.

Thank you so much. That looks beautiful, thank you. Ron Zeno. Does this look familiar? Thank you, much. That looks beautiful, thank you. Coranzino. Does this look familiar? Thank you. Yes it sure does, I had it last night. Anything else I can set up for you at the moment? I think I'm okay. This is great.

Do you need more ice for your wine, Carrie? No I don't, this soccer mom is doing great. I'm so sorry. Thanks. Wait, what were we talking about? Wait. We were talking about? Oh, the highs and lows of like being quiet and it's so nice. I know, it's so nice.

That's the payoff, you're right. I mean, I'm still at that place where my kids are young enough that I still feel bad when I leave. I mean, I think first of all, them seeing me do things that make me happy, I truly, I love working. And also, I'm doing it because hardly to provide for them.

So, you know. Of course. And especially now, I feel like we just had a strike, we had COVID, and it feels really, I'm super thankful to have a job right now, because so many of my friends do not. So I'm really just thankful. But who knows, I mean.

Well, I started watching The Diplomat. You don't have to watch it, don't worry. No, no, no, I am. You don't have to watch it. Hurry, I'm watching the show. Also. You don't have to, you never have to. It must be because you become vice president.

What? It must be because you. Oh, I bet you think so. And can we talk about Jani? Do you remember being on set and you and I were watching that like fall she does in primary colors? Yeah, that it's the most fucking genius thing. Allison was a genius. She's so good What she's doing is so specific and she's also just rad like she's just really cool person She's really cool. She is everything you want her to be

like class act, great, so good, funny. You know, we're doing serious scenes out on this lawn and someone says something about flossing. Do you know like that dance move that kids were doing from the video game? And she goes, how do you do that again? So we're dressed in suits, having this really serious conversation,

like, oh, you don't know, oh, you do that again? So we're dressed in suits, having this really serious conversation, like, oh, you don't know, oh, you don't know, like that. And she plays the vice president on our show. So she's trying to figure out how to do the floss, and I'm showing her in our suits, being all serious. And then she starts running the scene, this really crazy acerbic scene,

and she's like, you don't, oh, you don't like doing the serious diplomatic dialogue while flossing? Amazing. I lost it. Oh my god. Tears. Yeah, she's the best.

Genius. She is genius. Mm-hmm. But I love that you actually remember primary colors because you don't watch anything. I love primary colors. That's right up my alley. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You're right, I don't watch anything. I watch documentaries and boring. I know, I was telling Joanna this. I know, I'm the worst. My friends are always like, get with it. By the way, Matthew fucking loves the TV. We were just in the UK for 48 hours, and he's always like,

I love that he actually says, can I turn on the TV? But he wants to watch just shit TV. Well, he's always like, I love that he actually says, can I turn on the TV? But he wants to watch the shit TV. Well, he's so deprived because you don't have one at home. Is it still the case that you don't watch yourself on anything? I do. In fact, with The Diplomat, I did watch it. Oh, you did?

Because I was asking, OK, I was about to say this. I remember when I got back. I normally don't. I am a massive Americans fan, and you told me that you had watched the finale, because you watched it as a cast. Yes, yeah. Or you had some sort of a screening.

But other than that, it was just, you know, you read the scripts, and so you knew what was going on. Right, that's true. And obviously you were there when you were filming, and you were in a ton of the scenes, but like, there's a whole world, like with the Russians and that show that you probably have not seen some of those scenes.

Yes, well I just think I don't want to watch it if it's going to impede me continuing the project. Like if I'm going to be embarrassed by whatever, something, or judging it like hating the way I look, or the way I speak, or whatever, if that's judging it in a weird way. Or judging it, like, hating the way I look, or the way I speak, or whatever. If that's gonna fuck me up later, I'd rather not see it. But with a diplomat, maybe I'm just that much older,

or that's the other thing. I'm realizing so often it is important to see the world you're in. Your experience on the set that day can be so different than when you actually see it. You go, oh my god, that's the tone. The tone. The tone.

What am I gonna do? I'm concerned about the tone of the movie. Oh my god. God, are we gonna have to, well you're gonna have to come back to life and we're gonna have to do a different, a sequel. You didn't really die. You'll just come back, but you have no legs.

Yeah, just one leg, just one leg. You're gonna be so funny, oh my god. And Margaret will come back with just half her face missing. Oh my god. Oh, and you'll still be in that goddamn pink jumpsuit. Yeah, goddamn pink, it was just like sweat stains under the arms. My kids will be a little bit older, maybe.

That was so wild. Hilarious. I mean, also, I'm wondering, do you think the Americans was maybe also weird for you to watch? Because, I mean, it's also, it's sort of a live courtship happening as well, like. Oh that's interesting. Would you think of it that way?

I mean I don't know if it would be that way for you, but like, you know, you and Matthew played these people who were put together to work as a professional, arranged relationship, and then through, you didn't know each other, and then through that, your character developed a romance and ended up like having this very combative, sexy relationship.

And in real life, I mean, I don't think you, and Matthew, have a combative relationship, but you were getting to know one another and falling in love. Yeah. It's interesting, when I see occasionally, what is it called when someone sends you a picture but it's moving?

A GIF. Thank you. I still have AOL. I know, I know, I know. When you gave me your email address, it's like, this can't possibly be a real, this must be out of date. Yeah. So someone sent me something of that

and I was lying on a bed and Matthew was like stroking my lower back, like just, we were just talking, like having a scene. How are we feeling here? So enjoying a few things? I'll have a little bit more of this and I'll take another glass of some syrup. Thank you very much. And well first of all, I sent it to Matthew,

I was like, look how young we fucking look. And I loved it, it was so fun. I'm really able to enjoy it. And it was such a lark that we got to do that together in that kind of, at that prime of our lives. And had we met when we were 20, we wouldn't be together. We were just like in the right moment.

Totally. So I don't mind watching those things and it's especially now there's such distance to it that you can go oh wow. That's what I wish for all of us that we could look back and go, you look great. You look fucking great, stopping so worried about everything.

Right, I look back at me 10 years ago, and I'm like, what was I, why, I remember thinking like, oh I gotta be this, or look this way, or, but also I love that you have this time capsule of your, kind of like your courtship too. Yes, a courtship, because it was so kind of sexy and spy. And that world was just so languid. And it was just, it was really, it was a fun,

and it's obviously fun as you know, to be a part of something that's such a success and so beloved. It feels so good. Oh, it's so much better than things that aren't. That you thought was great, that no one else thought was great. I feel like you have a really good track record,

because I mean, Felicity, I know it only ran four years, which I think is still extremely successful. Yeah. It has a huge cult following now, still to this day. Yeah, it's sweet. And then, you know, the Americans, you know, obviously it was incredibly successful, and people loved the diplomatic.

I feel like you have, well first of all I think it's really interesting that you got these two big breaks, you have your big break as a kid with Felicity and then later in life, this other huge thing with the Americans. I mean I look at Ed O'Neill's career, he had married with children, which I know you were a guest star on.

I was, I forgot about that. For like one episode, yes that's right, that's right, the very end of were, I guess, a star on. I was. I forgot about that for like one episode. Yes, that's right. That's right. The very end of their show. OK. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, I always think it's so fascinating that he had that and then went on to have Modern Family.

And it just really doesn't happen a lot. I think I really feel like the secret of it is that if people are able to take a break. I don't think you want wanna see someone go from this to the next big thing as a different character. And if, but I don't care about the work as much. Like I want a break. I want to go live my life and read books and whatever,

watch movies, live my life so that I can have more experiences within myself. Because I'm not the kind of actor that someone better is, or you know, that a train, I'm not like, Matthew is a different type of actor. He loves to work, you know, he'll say, I say, what are you doing this week? And he goes, oh, I'm gonna go do these play readings,

whatever, I'm like, well, do you wanna do that play? And he goes, no, but I just, like, I wanna do, He just wants to do the work. Flex my muscles. I wanna, like, do a German accent, I mean? And he goes, no. But I just like, I want to do, flex my muscles. I want to like do a German accent, and a Russian accent, and all these things. He talked himself into a cocaine bear. I know. Just because he happened to be there.

But he just loves the work of it. He's not as precious about every single job. I want to do jobs that I think are really good. That really speak to me, and that I feel like I could do something with. And the truth is, I don't think I'd be good in everything. You know, I think what I can do is I try my best,

but you know, it's- Has there been something that you've been close to getting that you haven't gotten that you've been disappointed about? Or are you good about letting stuff- I'm really good about letting stuff go, because I feel like that's the way it's supposed to be, and then something better will come along. Yeah, right, right, right, right.

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Carrie talks to me about the pressure Hollywood puts on women, why she loves going to the bathroom at the Golden Globes, and what it's like to be a frequent diner with the Obamas. to be a frequent diner with the Obamas. I recently got an exciting shipment in the mail. New wine glasses from Big Wine Glasses. Even though some of their wine glasses can technically fit a whole bottle of wine in them, that's really not the point. It's just something cool that they can do.

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that will take all the hassle and stress out of any hiccups that arise. Download the Viator app now and use code viator10 for 10% off your first booking in the app. Find travel experiences for you. Do more with Viator. And we're back with more Dinners on Me. I know Liz was convinced you were going to say no to Cocaine Bear.

She was? I think so. Yeah. It was sort of like, well, I don't know if we're going to be able to get her because she picks what she wants to do and she has to really like this idea. You know, I mean, in your mind, were you ever like, I don't know about this one? The pen, it was COVID. Yeah, well, that's true.

And everything was so dark and so weird. And we'd all been in hibernation. Yeah. I remember reading it and my really good girlfriends, who my kids call Moms Gone Wild. Yes. We were probably here. We sit up at that bar.

The Moms Gone Wild. Moms Gone Wild. Go to that bar right around the corner. And thank you so much. This is really nice. I'm doubling down on it. Yes, that's right. And they, thank you.

And they, we were having our drinks, a million drinks sitting there. We start at like noon and I always go, I'll be home for dinner. And then Matthew will text the one who always answers her phone, goes, hey, it's Seven, is she, you guys, how's your lunch going?

Hey. And so I pitched them the idea and I remember Andrea going, if you don't do this movie, we're gonna not be friends with you anymore. This is exactly what everyone needs to see. And we did, we kept laughing about it, I kept thinking about it and then there we were. It was just the right thing to do at that time. For sure.

It was just, everything was to do at that time. For sure. It was just, everything was so fucked. And it needed that. The world needed that. Stupid. We needed it too. Wacky. We laughed so hard on that movie.

We laughed harder. We laughed so hard. And we got Margot. I mean, you got Margot. Had you known Margot before that? I had never met her. I was a massive fan. Yeah. And now you have Margot in your life. Yeah. Everyone falls in love with Margot before that? I had never met her. I was a massive fan. Yeah.

And now you have Margot in your life. Yeah. Everyone falls in love with Margot. Yeah. The hot transpo guy, the young sound guy. That's right. I don't care what age you are. All of Dalkey, Ireland.

They were baking her things and leaving on her doorstep. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She's exactly who she is. She's not trying to fucking be anything else. She's not trying to be more smart for you. She's not trying to be, look differently than who she is. She's not trying to fucking be anything else. She's not trying to be more smart for you. She's not trying to be, look differently than who she is. She absolutely owns and lives who she is and it is so shiny.

And everyone wants to be around that. And it's so good, especially for girls right now. It's wild, like even women my age, even women younger, even women younger, even women older, like all the plastic surgery and all the nonsense, it is insanity. And it's such a minefield out there. And it's, I mean, not in my personal,

like my girlfriend's art like that, but in our business, it is so intense right now. And I get it, because with little tweaks, you can look better. But it's just, like, I want to be around Margo. She's so authentic. There's so few authentic things anymore. And that's exactly what I want to be.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, she's pretty remarkable. And so that's what, yeah. But I love all that stuff you're saying about, like, how hard it is to navigate at your age. Like, you know, our industry, I mean. Wild. Do you feel like you've ever,

you haven't been in a position where you feel like, oh, I'm being pressured to present a certain way. I'm sure, you know, I think, I think that's kind of why I haven't done photo shoots in a while, is I get really, you know, I, at this point, I'm not judging anybody and I, I'm not saying I wouldn't do it, because who knows, maybe next week, who knows, who knows? But I haven't done anything, and I feel like I look my age,

and I'm really super lucky that I get to play a character that that is allowed. Right, right. I should look my age on that. What I love about your character in The Diplomat is she's like a salt of the earth person, she doesn't wanna dress up, she doesn't wanna be photo, she's kind of you.

You, yeah, yeah, me, yeah. She doesn't want to dress up. She doesn't want to be photo shoot. She's kind of you. You. Yeah, yeah, me. So I feel like I do hope. My hope is that the world is moving back towards authenticity and some of those more real things. I mean, those people do exist. They're further and farther between. But I feel like they do.

Well, that's also what's so refreshing. Almost every time I have a conversation like this with someone else who is of that stature and that I respect, they have the same feelings of anxiety around it, which gives me a little bit of, you know, I can breathe a little deeper. But also, I just feel like they navigate it better than I do because I never see that in you.

I'm dying inside, but then maybe people think I do it really well. Of course, because I think we're good at covering it. I mean, that's the nature of it. This year, when Matthew and I went to the Golden Globes, we actually sat down, we were like, okay, we have gone through so many years of this and missed it because you're just so nervous of so many things, and were like, okay, we have gone through so many years of this and missed it

because you're just so nervous of so many things. And we kind of said, this may be the last time we ever go. Let's try to enjoy it. Let's try to be present and let things roll off and don't. And my favorite one of those to go to is the Golden Globes because it's still in that same old hotel. Nothing's changed. And it's a tinier group of people

and you're all amidst each other. And the bathroom is so fun. I don't know what it's like in the guys, but the women's, it's that old 1950s, like ladies lounge where you could still sit and do your makeup. And it's the best because it's just girls in there needing their dresses zipped back up. And you know, you all help each other.

It's so magical. And so there's this thing where the playing field feels leveled. And so I was in this year, getting my dress zipped back up by someone. I'm trying to remember who zipped my dress back. I was washing my hands and in my peripheral vision from the stall this low voice came up

and it was Kristen Wiig and she came up behind me and she goes, I'm obsessed with you. Behind my ear and I was like, I'm obsessed with you. And she goes, you have a pin sticking out and she was helping me bobby pin back up my hair. Oh my gosh. And like those are so fun, you know? And then we kept sneaking back into the behind.

So if you're a presenter, you get to go back and there's actually good alcohol back there. She's like, can we go get the, I'm like, yeah. Let's go. And we kept sneaking back and having beers. And you know, those things are so fun. And I'm trying, instead of being shy or embarrassed or feel less than, I'm trying to go, this is fun,

like, let's be here. Thank you. Not for the best part. Do you want dessert? I am a big snob about chocolate chip cookies, because sometimes they're too cakey, and for me, here are good. This is very good, we should get the chocolate chip cookies.

Let's do chocolate chip cookies and whatever else they want to bring out. They're salty and thin enough, and they're done well. Perfect, perfect, I'm gonna tell them. I think I heard a verdict here. Chocolate chip cookies and then whatever else you think we might to try. Any coffees? I'm gonna have. Sure, all righty. Any coffee?

I'm gonna have an espresso. Third. Good for you. Yeah. We have a four year old landing soon. We gotta get some espresso in my system. But at least he's four. Yeah.

Do you think any of your kids are gonna wanna be in the entertainment industry? I hope not. Yeah. I know, someone asked me that at the end of the day about Beckett. I think it's because, oh, I was talking about how Beckett is the age that my daughter in a modern family

was when I met her. And who you're very close with still. I'm still very close with, yeah. And actually she asked me, she's like, would you ever want Beckett to do this? And I mean, my immediate answer is no, like you, but also like, I mean, if he shows interest, like I can't discourage him.

Oh, Kerry, let me explain the 50 before I put it down in front of you. You're not turning 50, we're not celebrating you. But I look so young for 50. You are our 50th guest. Ah! I love it. Oh my gosh, I'm so young for 50. I look so young for 50.

Thank you, amazing. Thank you so much. Come on, do you want this? Yes, yes, chocolate sauce please. Yeah. Oh, my kids love these. I'm your 50th guest? 50th guest.

I know. I can't believe you've done 50 of these. 50. We've had really good ones. Have you done Janny? You should get Janny. Allison Janny's definitely on my list. She's in London.

She'll be, you could do her. Or are you not doing it in London? Well, we have to fly Joanna out there. Oh, too much money, yeah. I get it. No, we'll see. Maybe season three. Yeah, but she would be fun.

She'll be great. When, once she, once I broke through. Did you feel like you had to break through with her? Just because she's kind and professional and polite. Right. So, it's so stupid the way your brain works. And I thought, oh, god, well, Janie's coming on, and she's so good, and also she's so tall,

and I'm such a shrimp, and I'll look stupid, and I won't look smart, and blah, blah. It's bizarre what your stupid brain does. And we had really heavy dialogue scenes together. And I thought, it's not gonna work and I'm gonna look bad. And I went into the makeup trailer in the mornings and Jani's there.

And we meet each other quickly. Nice as can be. Tall, like statuesque. So they never met her, this was a person. Never met her. Tall, statuesque Jani. Quiet and like slumping in her chair. like statuesque. She had never met her, this was the first time. Never met her. Wow. Tall, statuesque, Janie, quiet, and like slumping in her chair,

like to, you know how tall girls do? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. To me, and I went, and just in one second, I went, she's just like us. Like she's doing exactly what I was doing in my own stupid head. And she probably even more so because she's, this is a well-oiled machine that's already had a season and she's coming in.

And you already know each other. A total delight. Like I couldn't have loved her more and just, but it's so silly. Like, and it's a waste of time, all that stuff. Those games we play, yeah. Oh my god, it's so stupid. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, no, for sure. But you should get her. We'll get Jenny, for sure. Get Jenny. Is there anyone else that you feel like you would like die to work with? I also love Kathy Bates. I love her too. I've never met her Who do I think is great? I think Jodie Foster is great. I have met her. Very briefly at a bar we were doing.

She's also very shy. She seems to, in a good way, like, we had to do this, um, Glamour Women of the Year Award or something. Which by the way, is so weird, like. What's all weird? Those lists. But also, it just feels like women are great.

It's like, what? I know we're great. Like, what? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was at that thing, but I got to introduce someone amazing, Dr. Sylvia Earle, who's this amazing oceanographer, and I got to sit at the National Geographic Table,

which is my dream come true. Yeah, that's cool. And like the Smithsonian Institute, and that was my table, which were all adventurers, and it was really fun. And I left the event a teeny early to not get more pictures. Sell off brand.

And then went straight to the dinner area, and I was alone at the bar, there was no one else there, and Jodie Foster was there. She won't remember at all. But I was standing there and I ordered a drink, and she was the only other person there, and she said hi, and she was so nice. So nice, so lovely.

Probably didn't know I was an actress, but I just remember thinking she's cool. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I met her at a women's soccer game. And? Couldn't been cooler. Cooler, right? Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I met her at a women's soccer game. And? Couldn't been cooler. Cooler, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So sweet. She's on our list. I was gonna ask you something and you said something that reminded me of something else. Oh, have you ever, you've been to the White House Correspondence Center,

have you? I just went to this last room. You did. Was that the first time you went? It was wacky. It is wacky, but I'm just thinking like, how much you love being at that table with like, those like non-actors, like it's such a,

I find that room to be fascinating. Fascinating. Because you're with all of our world leaders, and like, it's incredible that they're all just like, hanging out, and also like, wanting selfies with, you know, Felicity. Yeah, it was, so because of this show, the luxury of doing this show about diplomacy, I've become friends with the ambassador,

the American ambassador to the UK, the court of St. James, Jane Hartley, who's amazing. So she'll invite me to dinner at the fancy house when Hillary Clinton's coming. Or she's having a dinner for Obama with 24 people. And she's like, can you make it? Already went. Oh my god, incredible.

Have you ever met him before? I have. Yeah, he's really special. He's, you know. That's another one, meaning someone like that. I really get in my head. And I don't know, this is probably him being just good at what he does,

but he made me feel so comfortable. He is a pro. And Michelle, I mean. Oh, she is. Even more so, I think. She really, I mean, I said things to her that I was like, I cannot just believe I said that to the First Lady of the United States.

Really just very curious. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, she's just a shiny, efficient, intellectual, warm person. And he is too, he watched the Americans. So Matthew and I got to go to one of his last state dinners and we got to sit at their table.

It was unreal. Oh my gosh. Unreal. What, you sat at the Obama's table? Oh my God, Carrie. Matthew sat next to Michelle. Oh my God. And I sat sort you sat next to Michelle. Oh my god. And I sat sort of across from...

It was amazing. But when I was with the ambassador, it was an intimate dinner for his foundation that he's doing now, which is really cool. Because his whole point is to raise up the younger leaders,

to try to support them. Yeah, buttress the new people coming in, yeah. He's like, that's our work now. Yeah, it's very important. We gotta. Yeah, look ahead, look ahead. Look ahead. And. Long term plan.

And so, we went and he came in and again, I'm super nervous, had to work all day and then went home quick, changed clothes, put some deodorant on and some lip gloss. Like getting my sweat away and showed up there and you have to bring a passport because you're showing up with someone. High security, absolutely. And had already downed a beer on my way there.

Got there. I was like, oh sure, I'll take another beer. Sure. And he walks in and just watching him, he's highly successful at that. What he does is he makes everyone feel important. He lets you know that he remembers you. Yes. And he lets other people know he remembers you. Yes. And he does it to everybody. And I was watching him going, oh my god, that must be exhausting. Exhausting. And he lets other people know he remembers you. Yes. And he does it to everybody. And I was watching him going, oh my god, that must be exhausting. Exhausting. And Zadie Smith was there. And I was like, so I was nervous to say hi, but finally, eventually I did.

And she was everything you want her to be. Nervous and shy and smart and powerful and beautiful and everything. I know so little about that world. Me too. Oh my God, Carrie, then how, I mean, I'm just watching your first few episodes. How do you memorize? But how do, I mean, just, I was trying to figure out

how you were ingesting all that and then. Well, I love that, like, I'm obsessed with, like, war journalism and all, I love that world. So one of the other, I've had, at the Hillary Clinton dinner, Christiane Amanpour was there. I've had dinner with her since. She is so cool. Yeah.

She's rad. She's really cool. She is the real deal. Like if we could have our ideal dinner, let's put our ideal dinner. Okay. Margot, obviously. Yeah, Margot's coming.

Like Margot, if I could have four Margot's, I would have four Margot's. Margot Martindale's absolutely, yeah. But we can only have one. Christiane Almanpour. Yeah. Obviously. Who else are we gonna round it out?

How many people are we having? We get to have a table of six. Okay, so it's obviously you and me. Yeah, we're going away, so we need to get two more people. Okay, who else could round it out? Someone funny? I want, like, can we bring someone back from the dead? Yes, obviously.

Joan Rivers. Okay, oh, yes. Yes. Yes. Oh my god, and so how are we, do we need one more guy? We need a guy, we don't have, yeah, we need another guy. Like Obama, we could have Obama. Yeah, I love that he's like, oh, I guess we'll have Obama.

I guess, fine, I mean, maybe he'll make the cut. Maybe, maybe, a plus one. Yeah, yeah. If he has to. Wait, hold on, hold on. Let's think of someone really great, like Steve Zahn or something like, wait, no, who else would be amazing?

I wanted to be. Just to mix it up. I wanted to be, oh God, who would it be? We need one more wild card. I want someone really be... Just to mix it up. I want it to be... Oh God, who would it be? We need one more wild card. I want some really smart and really funny... I mean, is it Steve Martin? Maybe. But can we make this happen?

Yeah. Well, we can't have Joan Rivers. We can't have Joan Rivers. Gosh darn it. I know, that's the only kink in this plan. It's the only kink, this is just dead. Then only kink, because she's dead. Oh, God. Then, okay, it's because we can't have John Roper, so Obama can come.

Okay, fine, maybe, because someone's dead. Oh, my God. Oh, I'm so happy you did this. Me too, this is so good. Was this a nice little treat after a photo shoot? It was my reward to get through the photo shoot. my reward to get to the photo shoot. This episode of Dinners on Me was recorded at Chikoni's Dumbo in Brooklyn, New York. Next week on Dinners on Me, you might know her from 30 Rock and the unbreakable Kimmy

Schmidt, it's Jane Krakowski. We'll get into our mutual love of musical theater, why Tina Fey is so cool, and her iconic television characters. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners on Me Plus. As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad-free. Just click try free at the top of the Dinners on Me show page on Apple Podcasts to search your free trial today.

Dinners on Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Angela Vang. Sam Baer engineered this episode. Hans-Dyl She composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tamika Balanz-Kolasny and Justin Makita.

I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.