Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - Kristin Davis -- on Revisiting Sex and the City, Single Motherhood & Finding Charlotte Again

Episode Date: July 7, 2026

'Sex and The City' and ‘And Just Like That...’ star Kristin Davis joins the show. Over bluefin crudo and purple asparagus salad, Kristin tells me about rediscovering SATC through her rewatch podcast ‘Are You a Charlotte?’ and reflected on the show’s early days – which included getting episodes on VHS tapes. She also opens up about her decision to become a mother on her ownand navigating the nuances of transracial adoption. This episode was recorded at Rustic Canyon in Santa Monica, CA.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Being in London this summer for Jesus Christ Superstar has been so fun, so incredible. But one thing I've learned is that when you're somewhere else for work, you still want to carve out time to actually enjoy where you are. London's an amazing city. I'm here with the family. So between performances, Justin and I have been trying to explore with the kids, find new parks, squeeze in museum visits, you know, make some real family memories while we're here, which, as any parent knows, takes a fair amount of planning. And anyone who knows my relationship knows that's all Justin's territory. It could sometimes feel hard to plan while you're traveling when you really just want to go with the flow and see where things take you. But that's not Justin's Jam.

He is a planner. He likes exploring a new city, especially with the kids. So extra planning makes all the difference. Now, if you're planning travel this summer, whether it's for work, vacation, or a little bit of both, it can be a great opportunity to do a little extra planning yourself and list your home on Airbnb. while you're away. It can be a great way to put your home to use instead of letting it sit empty, and you can also earn a little cash to put towards your own travel. And with Airbnb's co-host network, you can get extra support behind the scenes so you don't have to spend your trip worrying about what's happening back home. A co-host is a vetted local superstar, not to be confused with

Jesus Christ Superstar, who can help manage guest reservations and communication, provide on-site support, even help style your space if you need that. So the, run smoothly while you're off enjoying your own trip. With that little extra planning, you can focus on being present for the things that matter to you most, whether it's exploring a new city, spending time with your family, or just enjoying your summer. Find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. You know those meals that just immediately take you somewhere? Like you take one bite and suddenly you're transported to a backyard.

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You don't have to politely ask someone else to handle the hot oil, which frankly, I'm always happy to avoid. It's just there at the deli ready to go. So if you're putting together a sandwich or just standing at the counter deciding what kind of day you're going to have, the friar's turkey breast is a pretty great choice. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite at your local Boershead deli counter. Bor's Head committed to craft since 1905. Hey, it's Jesse. Today on the show, you know her from Sex and the City, Melrose Place. It's the iconic Charlotte herself. Are you a Charlotte? You could find out by listening to our podcast. Are You a Charlotte? It's Kristen Davis. There's so many storylines that I just fully 100% forgotten. Like, I don't know

what's going to happen next. I know who ends up with who, right? I don't know how they get there. I have no idea. This is Dinner's On Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Today I'm at Rustic Canyon in Santa Monica, a neighborhood restaurant that really captures the spirit of California cooking. The menu changes constantly. depending on what's coming out of, their nearby Santa Monica Farmers Market, which is one of the best in LA. So everything feels incredibly fresh and of the moment.

They take this very thoughtful, slow approach to food here, everything from the produce, and the seafood, and the meat, and the wine. Every ingredient has a story and a source behind it. So if you're curious about where your pork chop came from or what farmer grew the snap peas in your salad, chances are it's right there on the menu. They also have this honeycomb ice cream

It's literally what dreams are made of. Okay. Kristen should be walking up soon, so let's get to the conversation. I just came from my son's summer show. Oh, very exciting. You know, and it's just so, I mean, it's like there's... It's a lot. It's a lot.

And it's just... I mean, I love it so much. It's the parent watching that really gets me. I mean, everyone immediately pulls out of their phone. I mean, I was doing the same because my husband... Even if you're told not to. Justin wasn't there? Justin was, so my older son has a show today as well.

There was an overlap. You had to double duty. So we had to divide and conquer. This is where being a single parent is horrible. I'm sure. You're like, what do I do? I know. I mean, you really are screwed there.

Yeah. So he went to Beckett, my older son's show and took video and then I took video from my younger son's show. That's nice. But it was very cute. You know, I mean, of course, like I, you know, I love being on stage. So I want my kids to love it. And they seem to, like, I'm not a stage mom by any stretch of the imagination. But I do like want them to appreciate what it is.

And both of them are like fine doing it. But you could tell that it's like not their thing. I think that's good, Jesse. I do too. Don't, don't let them do what we do. That's my general thing. My son does not like being on stage. But he this morning had his wonder project.

What is that? It is a like a passion project, I guess. It's been different every year. He's in second grade. So this year it was what job do they all want to do? They had to write a resume. It was like a job fair. And we were...

How does your son? He's eight. Okay, okay. And he wants to be an NBA player. Oh, wow. Incredible. Yes. Yeah, yes.

Luckily, he's very good at basketball. I don't know if that's lucky, actually. Sometimes I'm like, it would be better if he was horrible at basketball. Sorry. Because then it wouldn't even be a possibility or whatever, right? But now it's kind of possible and it's slightly scary. You actually go. Yes.

Welcome to the Canyan. Thank you so much. Thank you guys for being here. It's our pleasure. Thanks for having us. Have you both dined here before? I have, but not in a while. I have not.

You have not. I have never. I'm so excited. Ooh. Well, welcome. We are one of the very first farm-to-table seasonal restaurants in LA. We've been here for 20 years.

Love it. 20, this December. We celebrate all of our local farmer's markets and we have a really strong relationship with our farmers. We credit them on our menu. Everything is hyper-seasonal. Chef is going to curate a little

menu for you guys. A bunch of little dishes kind of highlighting some of our snacks, cool dishes, hot dishes, as well as proteins, and we'll just kind of course that up for you. I'm getting you guys started with a drink if you want to do. I have beer, wine, non-alcoholic beverages, water. I think I'm good with water, actually. Me too, okay? We're not drinking. They have a fun and a groaning if you want one. I do have a funny to groaning. Yeah. Fine. Yeah, I'm good with. I think bubbles are where it's at. So good. I'll do some time and then chef will slowly bring out a few dishes like you. Okay. Okay. Love it. Love it. Love it. It's so exciting to have like a creative meal.

I know. Right? I like just like letting people decide for me too. Yeah. I remember first bonding with you on our, I also work with the UNHCR. Yeah. What does it stand for? The United Nations.

What does it stand for? High Commission of Refugees. Yeah, thank you. I can never remember what it stands for. Yeah, it's kind of very old school. And you were someone who I knew had worked with them. And so I watched a lot of the videos that they had created a view, like on the field working. And I was so inspired.

And you've done a lot with them. And you've gone to very interesting places in the world, some very dangerous places as well. I mean, maybe you didn't see it that way, but like I, at least from my perspective. When you're with the UN, you don't really have to worry, you know. Yes, no, I felt safe when I was working with it. But, like, you know, I mean, you were going to some places of deep unrest for sure. Yes, deep unrest, deep unrest, for sure. Thank you.

This is exciting. Welcome. Welcome. Thank you so much. Thank you. Do you want to explain anything to us? Yeah, of course. Okay.

This is our bread. It's kind of a take on a Mexican bolio. Wow. We make the butter in house with some culture cream. Gorgeous. Waterflower honey. And then I brought out a crudo for you guys. It's bluefin tuna, but blood oranges, some chipotle oil and dried olive on top.

Oh. And it's a fun little snack. Cherries are just coming into season. Amazing. So we're rolling them in brown butter. and finishing them with cherry blossom salt, which is very traditional in Japan. Wow.

But there's ceramic in there for all the pits. Oh my God, I'm very, very excited, very excited. Yes, yes, the UNHCR, High Commission of Refugees, yes. We're trying to just call it the UN Refugee Agency now to be a little bit more simple. I just tore that, I don't know if that's what I was supposed to do. Okay, good. I do love them so much.

I just recently went to South Sudan. Oh, how was that? It was great. It was really hard in many ways. also, but really amazing because I hadn't been and I wanted to go. And, you know, the whole area is just going through so much, and I feel so bad for them. South student is the newest country, you know, in the world. And it's so sad that they're now in this war for three years.

And so many people have been displaced and it hasn't really stopped. And yet nobody talks about it, which is just such a sad, sad sign of the times that there's so much drama from so many places that millions of people can be displaced and no one really mentions it that much. Like there'll be waves where there'll be some press about it and then nothing, but the people are still coming, the people are still coming, they have nowhere to go. You know, they have no funding. It's so, so difficult to raise funds and awareness for refugees that anything that anyone could give means so much. And that's the thing that I think is, it's like painful to realize,

but then also hopeful because you can do something. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I mean, there's always something to be done for sure. Yeah. You know. Have you always been someone who has been interested in giving back in this way and, you know?

Yeah. In some ways, my mom was a big volunteer person. Mm-hmm. So it was kind of just normal. She would volunteer at kind of like not exciting things, you know? Not things where all the other moms were. And at the time, I was always sometimes like, oh, God, you know. mom, you know, with their ideas.

But she's been a part of doing so many great things. Like we, because we, after we moved from Boulder, we went to eventually to South Carolina. Right. Which is, you know, not a progressive place, really. And the Confederate flag was on the top of the state house my whole life. And every year my mom and her friends would march against it. Oh, wow. Every year.

And finally, after something like 15 years, they got it moved. So it's not on the top now. It's on the statehouse grounds. by itself with the plaque that says what it actually is. Explaining the history of it. Rather than having it be at the top of the building. You know, with the other flags. Context.

Exactly. Exactly. And, I mean, they wanted it gone, right? Which, of course, I would support. But at least it's improvement. I think there with context is also very powerful. Me too. Me too.

I mean, it is part of history, obviously. I just don't need to see it. I don't enjoy seeing it. You know, I don't feel like, yeah, that's part of history. I feel like, oh, that's part of history. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.

Did you watch Sex and City as it was being aired? Mm-hmm. They would give us a VHS. A VHS. Mm-hmm. And we would run home. I would run home at least. I can't speak for everyone.

We all had a different take on it. I guess I got DVDs of modern-compan. Did you? You were a little later. You guys were a little later. So you would get a VHS. We would get a VHS. Maybe we got DVDs eventually.

I only really remember the VHS, though. And I would run home and put it in the thing. and it was rough. You know, at that point, still a rough copy, right? So sometimes it would have like a placeholder. It wouldn't have a special effect. It wouldn't have music. Right.

But, you know, it was so curious to see what had worked, what had met it in, you know, all of the things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I remember thinking it was good, but I also simultaneously, this might sound bad, but simultaneously, sometimes when the fervor kind of happened, I would just be like, what are they like they're so excited like it would just be like overwhelming kind of where you're just like what is happening you know what I mean right but now when I look back on it in the rewatching of it I'm more able to be objective and to kind of get into it almost almost like a fan not quite but like the storylines and whatnot and it's really good it's great I didn't I don't know that I really knew that I mean you didn't know that sex and said he was great I It's great. I don't know that I knew to the extent that it was different. I understand when you're in it.

Yeah. I totally get that. It's totally know what it feels like. It's so different. It's so different. You know what I'm saying? Like it's so different. Was it from the first shows?

You know, for me, when Texas City started, I didn't have HBO. Right. Like it was something that not everyone had. But it was felt like one of those shows that sort of broke through. It was one of the first shows to break through, like, from that prestige network. Well, because it was one of the first shows they had, that's why. Yeah, like previous to us, it was Larry Sanders. Okay, okay, yeah.

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Kristen shares the very different acting philosophies that made sex in the city work, and she looks back on her days as a waitress in New York before Charlotte York changed everything. Okay, be right back. I'm sure you've heard of microplastics. A lot of times we talk about it making its way into our oceans and our food, but it turns out they can also come from products we use every day at home, including cleaning products. That's one of the reasons I've been using Bluelands laundry tablets.

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And we're back with more dinners on me. Wow, what is it? This is an asparagus salad. It's a purple asparagus. Ooh. Some whipped ricotta underneath. It's dressed in salsa verde and some nice arugolant salt. Amazing.

Thank you. Everything is so good. Thank you. It's delicious. Oh my God, really good. But so, like, yes, you, many, I don't even think Cynthia had the HBO, you know? Right. That's so funny.

Uh-huh. I mean, Cynthia also, like, I'm friends with her. She strikes me as a type of person who wouldn't watch her own work. But I could be wrong. She's the opposite. Really? Everyone says that. I don't know why they say that.

It's so funny. Cynthia, when me started, she would say, you know, I don't know what I'm doing on TV, you know, because like she was a theater kid, right? And so she used to say, not my medium. She would say this during scenes to me, like on her breath, like, not my medium. And I'd be like, shut up, it is.

Like, what are you saying? Like, acting is acting, you know? But she felt, because she didn't really, have, I mean, she'd been in films and she'd been in Amadeus, for God's sake, you know, like amazing films, but she still felt, because you know how it is when you're doing a TV show. Like, you really get a crash course. Oh, yeah. And the all things technical, right?

Right. You also, there's, right, but also when you have 30 minutes to tell a story, you know, there is an expedited. Oh, yeah. sense of like storytelling really. I mean, like you don't have a lot of time to like explore character and like, you know, what you would normally do. That's true. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

I mean, you sort of had to make quick decisions and go. That's true. That's true. And then also with the storytelling, with the writing, you have to move fast. You know, you don't have a lot of time. That's true. I think for her and I, you know, we could be putting words in her mouth or whatever,

I think a lot of it had to do with blocking and camera kind of awareness. Right. Because we would have these very complicated scenes when it was all four of us, especially if we were walking and cocking, which as the show went on, we did more and more. Yes. It's very different than Broadway.

Broadway is also like patting your head and rubbing your stomach, you know, like you have to... But it's a different set of rules. But you have to be aware of the audience rather than the camera, whatever. So she would take the... She asked for the dailies. She would get the dailies. She would watch them in the hair and makeup trailer. And then we would come and we'd be like, please stop.

Turn those off. Yeah. Right now. But she watched all of them for years. That was her class, basically. That's so interesting. I know. I was like, how can you do that?

Wow. Yeah. When you were in New York, I mean, I had such random jobs. Did you? I was a bartender at the Winter Garden Theater where Katz was. Oh, my God. I worked at a gift shop in Times Square. Wow.

I did the play on the Broadway and then I did a play on the West End. And it was great, but I already had my daughter. And I was like, that's a lot of bed times. It's a hard. It's a very tough thing for being a parent and just keep it out of schedule. Absolutely. You miss a lot of bed times. Yeah, it's hard.

And like on the one hand, you think, oh, I'm free during the day, which is true. But then you're not really. No, you're not totally free. You're not mentally free. You're not mentally free. No, you're not mentally free at all. That's true. But I'm, I was a lot less free when I was doing the show.

Let's put it that way. You know what I mean? Because then you're actually gone for, you know, whatever amount of time. But I think, I think for me, and I don't know, I was listening to you and John Bernthal, who were really entertaining, and I was listening to him, and he's so, you know, like, in it and, like, perfectionistic and all those things, which I can also be. But I also feel like, I don't know, like, there's a part of theater where you're analyzing, analyzing, analyzing so much.

I do not love that part. You don't. No. You don't like the tablework. No. Interesting. No. I know.

That's why I'm saying it. I know Cynthia loves it too. Yeah, I know she does, yeah. I'm like, it's too much talking. It's too much talking. Let's just do it. You know what I mean?

That's so funny because I remember, you know, Eric Stone Street comes from the improv world and really kind of got his big breaks here in L.A. doing TV and commercials and guest spots. And I'm from the theater world. I would always want to rehearse and he would totally make fun of me every time. You mean like in the dressing room type like backstage? I would want to run lines.

I would want to like work on like where we're going to be standing. Oh you what? Oh yes. Motivation. Now why am I moving? Motivation. Why am I moving over there? Like I would be I would spend I would go on set and I would spend like probably like a good like.

You mean ongoingly on the show when it's going and working you would want to talk about motivation? Oh my God. Like you and Cynthia. She should be like a red-haired couple together. We've talked about this. Funny, really funny. I mean, Cynthia's like basically,

have you ever seen us both in the same place? No. No, you have that, too. But no, I would, like, go on to set, like, sometimes 10 minutes before and, like, place props in different places. So, like, I had, if I was crossing, I would have a reason to go to.

I mean, you know, I'd have to work all that stuff out. Wow. It didn't make sense to me. But what about the rehearsal that was planned? It wasn't enough. Oh. They'd be like, here, you go, there you go. I was like, but why?

Why? So that I would go back on to set. wouldn't ask you, Jesse, where do you want to go? Sometimes. Okay. Depending on the director. Got it. Got it.

Got it. So then you were worried about making it fill, fill it in. Got it, got it, got it, got it. I mean, look, I'm not saying I've never done that, right? Like if it's a hard scene or like an emotional scene involving props or whatever, I might go down there and practice, ish, but not on a daily. You know what I'm saying? Not on daily.

And I would never discuss motivation. Never. Well, I stopped discussing with Eric. Good. I've discussed it internally to myself. Yes, discuss it internally. Because I'll tell you the other reason that I don't think it's super useful in television especially and maybe also film. You don't want the other person to know and or share your motivation.

Right. You need there to be some friction. I get it. You know what I mean? And that's one different thing with theater like theater because you've got to have it running super smooth for that show because it's a live thing and you don't have another take and all that, right? And I do understand like you've got to... But sometimes I need something from the other actor

to give me that motivation. Well, sure, but you know, if everyone's in total agreement, right? If I say to you Jesse, I need you to really yell at me here so that I am motivated to be defensive or whatever it is, then everyone's in total agreement and on film that's not always exciting.

Whereas in theater, I feel like, yes, you have to know your beat so that you can hit them, right? So that it runs, so that it's smooth, which I totally get. Oh, no, don't get me wrong, I like to surprise people. Good. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Kristen explains how revisiting sex in the city years later has completely changed the way she remembers it.

Plus, Kristen opens up about the surprising path that led to motherhood after years of not being sure she wanted kids. Okay, be right back. This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales, using automation, analytics, and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result?

Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more at Accenture.com slash Spotify. Hey, pts, you didn't hear this for me, but normal gossip is back for its ninth season. join me, Rachel Hampton, as I share the juiciest gossip from the real world with some very special guests. This season, we're bringing back some old friends, a Radiotopia buddy, and for the first time ever, a Nobel laureate. That's right. We have Malala on season nine. Normal gossip is out on all your favorite podcast platforms. Well, hello. Bonjour. I'm called Simon Mayo. And I'm called Mark Cobot. Coming up on this week's take, reviews of Nirvana, the band, The Show, The Movie,

minions and monsters, a catch-up review of Supergirl from last week because they screened it too late, and the invite with our special guest, two of its stars Ed Norton and Olivia Wilde, who also direct the movie. Do not miss this week's take. And we're back with more dinners on me. It's gorgeous. It's on yokey, caught a noki. And then tomatoes are just coming here. into season, so it's a bunch of sungolds.

And there's some ramps, some salted ramps in the sauce as well. Okay dokey. Thank you so much. All the colors are so gorgeous. I know so gorgeous. That's the farm to table joy, right? These plates that are so beautiful. I know. I love the little earthenware.

It's so cute. But I know exactly what you're saying, and I do think it's, I just think it's important. I think it's important because sometimes not everyone is on the same page, right? You're welcome. Yeah. And I think sometimes that can cause friction with your co-stars or whatever, right? Because, like, their way of working is different than your way of working, which is really hard. But, like, with Sarah Jessica and Cynthia, for example, who are from the theater world.

They're very different, though, very, very different. Yeah. Very, very different. Don't be telling Sarah Jessica what you're going to do. Uh-uh-uh. She did not like that. Cynthia totally fine. You know what I mean?

Cynthia wants you to do what you're supposed to do, when you're supposed to do it, and she wants you to be, you know, smooth about it, right? Like, not in a mean way or anything, but like when she was directing definitely, you know, you were, oh, yes, we're going to, we're going to have our things ready and be smooth. You know what I'm saying? Some people would be less, less into that, you know. They're very different to work with, though. Sarah is so, like, her lines are perfect. Like, oh, my God.

And she had so many. And she would learn them the night before in the car so that she wouldn't have to spend the day. which I'm just like, how do you do this? How do you do this? After an 18-hour day or whatever, she would learn the next day's lines. To go home and be able to digest more lines. Well, just in the car so that she wouldn't have to when she got home. Oh, she would do it.

First of all, I would get nauseous by looking at anything in the car. No, no, she's so tough. She's so tough. I know. I would do it too. When I was young, I used to try to learn in the car because I was trying to be like her. But I was never that interested in it, right? Meaning like I'm trying to like process the day that just happened before the next day

or whatever. You know what I'm saying. Right. And I like to, I would, my thing was I would read them right before I went to bed. Okay. Because, you know, they lodge and you're unconscious that way. Yeah. And then you wake up and you sort of have it like at the tip of your.

Yeah, but I'm not as, I'm not as smooth as either of them, right? But yeah, they're both very different, Cynthia and Sarah, but they're both very incredibly professional. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, somewhat intimidatingly professional at times. Well, I don't know Sarah Jessica very well at all. I've met her. a few times and I adore her, but Cynthia and I are pretty close, and I definitely know what you're

talking about. How has it been, because I mean, I know how I feel about my memories with this show that I did for so long, and, you know, I have very specific memories of, like, those 11 years. And I can only imagine now that you're revisiting the show through your podcast and you're having people on who are not only on in front of the camera, but behind the camera and writers and directors and um kind of has it been surprising sometimes how other people remember things that seem so vivid to you no i mean i do have a lot of memories and then occasionally i have none right so and i think it's like filling in the blanks yeah sometimes i love especially when our writers come on that's really interesting because they remember how different perspective

things developed you know what i'm saying like what happened in the writer's room that led them to X, Y, or Z. And usually it was someone else's story like it was one of the other writers. This had happened to her, that had happened to her, different things, which is super, super interesting to hear about. And not, I don't think we were always

necessarily aware of that at the time, you know, because obviously you're, like we made 18 episodes, and I know you guys did a ton. This is in the olden days when we did a lot. Yeah. Season 3 and season 4, I think we both did 18. And it was, you know, it was a lot.

Like, it was a lot. We were up all night all the time. Like, you were just barely functioning, much less finding the origins to this storyline or that storyline, you know? So that's the fun thing about the podcast is getting to revisit these things all these years later. I love talking to our writers about, like, their first script. How did it come to be? How scared were they? What was going on?

What did Michael Patrick say to them? How did it, you know, unfold? It's really interesting. And then, I mean, acting-wise, yeah, I have heard some stories. usually with people who were acting with other ones of us, right? Like not myself, right? Where they'll be just a whole story that, you know, to do with their lives, right? Not to do with this set or anything.

I mean, somewhat the set. But it's super interesting. But that's partly why I wanted to do the podcast was I felt like, you know, so many other people have done podcasts or rewatch or whatever commentated on the show, you know, for almost 30 years. It's nice to, I think, have. the narrative come from someone who is, you know, part of that core. Yeah, and I also felt like, you know what, so many people made this show, right?

So many people behind the scenes, the writers, so many people contributed. And yet we're the ones who were always focused on, which of course I understand were on camera. But I wanted to hear everyone else's take, like, how did they get there? What was it like? What did they remember? I wanted a tapestry, like to weave a tapestry of the people who actually made it and to be on record with it, right? So if anyone really wants to hear what it was like, you can find out by listening to Are you a Charlotte? Do you what I mean?

It's not going to be a bunch of hot takes, you know, which is what other people do. And I get that. It's going to be what it was really like and how we felt and, you know, what we remember. And it might have been that it was, you know, 5 a.m. And we were, it was 100 degrees. And we got French fries from McDonald's. You know what I mean? Like it's all kind of high and low.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like all that stuff that we tend to remember. Like when you watch a scene, do you remember what was happening behind? Or do you remember the scene? I mean, yeah, that's a great point. I mean, usually there's, I'm watching something and it was part of a bigger day, you know?

And I remember not always, but sometimes if something significant happened that day, I remember, like, a conversation I had in the makeup trailer or like, a personal thing that was going on in someone else's life and like how we were negotiating that as we were shooting or like someone not feeling well and like you know and that's also like I think what makes um it feel a lot like a family for for me and I'm sure you feel the same way I think this is yeah you want some more done yoke I'm good yeah thank you it's it's excellent it's really good you also this really unique thing that's happened to you that not a lot of people first of all very few people can have this experience but then also

So within that, very few people who had a hit show experiences where you got to do something. It's unheard of. Take a lot of time off and then come back to it. Right. Well, we did something. We ended it. We did a film. That's right.

Went well. Yeah. Did a second film shot in Morocco. I mean, it's so insane, right? And then many, many years later, oh, what on earth is this? There's one more dish for you guys. It's fried halibut. Wow.

Just a halibut. It's a great halibet. It's a great alibi. Cool. Some shaped peat. and mits. Some jalapeno as well. Some jalapeno.

Okay. The batter is more of like a Baja fished taco style. Amazing. Please enjoy. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Wow, you should chop it up, Jesse.

Yeah, it's unheard of and crazy. And I think when I started the podcast, we were still doing. And just like that, or maybe we weren't still doing it, but I thought we were going to keep doing it. I think we were just about to end, but I didn't know it was the end. But it felt like it gave me kind of, um, I don't know. I felt like I had a good, like, solid perspective to be looking back, you know? And now that we're not doing it, and now I'm happy because I get to have everyone.

Right, right? Extend the party. Exactly, right? Yeah, for sure. A way to see everybody. But then sometimes it's also weird because we're not going to work. You know what I mean? Right.

I see sad. Sometimes I feel a little sad. Yeah. Do you feel sad? Oh, all the time. How do you feel about Monta family? All the time. I mean, I, uh, I mean, I mean,

we are here also close. That's nice. And I do see everyone quite often. Yay. But, you know, there are people that I don't see a lot. And it's the same with, I feel like I was, because I was listening to the episode, I was listening to a few episodes with Sarah Jessica and also with us, with Cynthia. Uh-huh.

It's so much fun when they co. Because I was just very interested in hearing the actors talk about their experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But let me see if I can remember how they worded it, but there was, how did she say, it. It was, um, we were talking about missing each other and sort of having that experience. It's, it's this thing that happened in, God, I'm trying to remember how she wore it. It was so perfect. I'm really related to it. Which one? Sin or Sarah? I think it was Cynthia. Uh-huh. I have no idea what she said. But basically it was along the lines of, you know, you remember this

thing in the moment and then time happens. And, you know, it's just like, it eats away kind of at that thing. Yeah. You don't really have the same memories. And that's like when people like sort of have different memories of the same thing. Yes. Yes. Yes. That's true. And it's, uh, and it's also that thing that is never as good as it was when it was happening.

You know what I mean? I do. But this is what's crazy to me when I watch it, right? Because I didn't know how I was going to feel about the actual show, right? Like I have all these memories, obviously so many memories, which is part of the reason I wanted to do it. But then when I watched the show, the show's so much better, like I said. Like, it's really good.

Yeah. And there's so many storylines that I just fully 100% forgotten. Like, I don't know what's going to happen next. I know who ends up with who, right? But I don't know how they get there. I have no idea. Like right now when I'm watching, Miranda just got pregnant. Steve and Miranda aren't together.

I'm like, how do they get together? I don't know. I know they get together, but I don't know how. I'm really not sure. That's great. They've been through a lot already. Like, it's very interesting. I have no idea.

I'm very invested now. Like the real fans, you know, which is really nice. That is great. But I also feel like sometimes it's almost like the show has taken a larger point of my memory over. Or is it used to be the memories of like, and then when we wrapped at 7 a.m., we all drove in a caravan to the Hampton so that none of us would be in an accident. You know what I mean? Those are the things that I used to be like, oh yeah, that show reminds me of when we all drove out to the Hamptons.

That's what I'm saying that you remember the things that are associated with that. Definitely. Definitely, definitely. Totally. But now the real show, I'm like, wow, it's so interesting. Yeah. Which is amazing, right? Amazing to be part of something like that.

Totally. Yeah. This is really good. Isn't that delicious? So fresh. Yeah, it's really fresh. It's like, and for something that's fried, I'm like, it doesn't feel happy at all. No, it's light.

It's light. It's really yummy. It's incredible. I got to bring the kids here. You should. Yeah. Did you always know this you want to be a mom? No.

Really. I always said no. Really? Yeah, I was like, I don't want to get married. I don't want to have kids. That was my thing. I was just like acting, acting, acting. Travel and acting. What changed that? I think two things. I think that being around Sin and Sarah and like seeing their lives and, you know, it was such a big part of who they were that they wanted to have kids and sin already had Sam and then she had more. And Sarah really, really so, so really wanted to so badly for so long. And then it was really interesting to watch them do it, you know? I was like, oh, wow, that's interesting.

And then my girlfriend's here. We're already having kids. And I was like, well, yes, I enjoy being auntie. I do. I enjoy it. It's good. It's interesting. And I think that the success of the show kind of allowed me to, you know, like breathe easy in a way.

You know, when you're young and you don't know if it's going to work out. Right. I couldn't really focus on multiple things. Like other people I knew. Yeah, you feel like you need to, like, stay. focused on this thing. Right. Career, I need to make sure.

Right. And I do feel like that's somewhat true. Like my friends, they got married and had kids. It changed their, you know, relationship to the acting, basically. They didn't need it as much, it seemed like.

So I was super, super focused for a very long time. And then once the show was a success and you could kind of go like, oh, wow, oh, wow, this worked out. This is crazy. I mean, it really settled me down a lot. And then after a while, I think that I really was thinking, you know, what am I going to do for the rest of my life?

Like, what other challenges are there? What can I commit myself to, like, in a deep way? And what is deeper than parenting? Nothing. You know, nothing, right? Do you agree? I do agree. Yeah.

100%. Yeah. So at a certain point, I think it kind of called to me from that perspective, but then I didn't know how I was going to do it, what it was going to look like. because I didn't have, I hadn't ever looked for a partner that was like a dependable. Like, you know what I'm saying? I hadn't been on my radar to be looking for those things. And therefore, I hadn't found one of any of those things. And then I thought, well, I'm just going to do it myself.

But then I was very scared, very, very scared. So it took quite a while for me to do it. Did you always know that you wanted to adopt? It was always on my horizon because my dad adopted me when he married my mom when I was three. Oh, interesting. So I at least had, it was just half, right? So my biological dad and my mom had been married and then they got divorced where I was two and then he left and then my mom and my dad got married and he adopted me, which was great. It was the late 60s.

So it was back before that was totally common. And it was part of my identity to a certain degree, right, of like just being from this kind of unusual family. And I thought it was a great thing. So I think I had that in my mind that it was a great thing. And then I think from a lot of my philadelphia. philanthropic work, you see the need in the world. And I think the need in the world kind of changes you a bit. You know, I certainly have single mother friends who had their babies, and that's great too,

you know. But I think for me, I was like, well, I don't need to go through all the trouble to try to have one. Right. If there's babies out there that need parents, you know. Right. Yeah. Not that it's not complicated. I mean, I was going to say, I'm sure it's complicated in its own set of ways.

I mean, do you have, like, for people who are interested in expanding their family in that way, do you have advice for people that you would say? My advice is to really dig deep, to really, really, really examine what you're being motivated from. Because I also think that just in terms of women, You know, we're so told by society that we have to be mothers, we have to be mothers, we have to be mothers. And for a long time, I was really angered by that. You know, like, why does everyone have to do this? Why? And I think I just rebelled, you know, like, don't tell me what I have to do.

Sure. And the whole notion that you're not complete, you know, unless you have a child, is just so false, right? And I don't think everyone is suited to be a parent. So I just don't find that helpful. And I know women feel bad, you know, that they're not doing those things that society is telling you to do. And that's so ridiculous. And we shouldn't ever have to apologize for what we want. We shouldn't ever have to apologize for being ambitious or wanting to work or wanting to travel or be adventurous or whatever the thing is that you want.

So I think you have to really do some work as a woman to divest yourself of what society is telling you you should be doing and really dig deep. What do I actually want to do? And am I strong enough to do it no matter what people are going to think or say or whatever, you know? That's what I think. And I think that might mean that you don't want to be a mother. And that's fine. And find the people who are going to support you in that, you know? Because there's so many ways to contribute to the world and live a wonderful life.

You don't have to be a parent to do that. And don't be a parent if you don't really, really, really want to. It's just like when you meet young people and they want to be actors. I'm always like, don't do it. Don't do it. And then you want to see the reaction. Have to like need to do it so badly. Like if the reaction is like, I have to do it.

Then you go like, oh, okay, maybe. But only if it's that, right? Like if there's anything less than that, don't do it. I know, I agree. That's how I feel about parents. It's too hard. It's too hard in the other way. I do agree with that.

Yeah, absolutely. Can I ask about, because I know your kids are both black. I mean, you know, Ty Borella and his wife, Holly, have adopted two of black girls. And Holly has this hilarious story about when she had Frankie, their young, the oldest in the grocery store. And like, she was just, she did not know how to do with this child's hair. Yes. And this woman comes up to her.

And she was like, I got to help you. And like helped her find product for her. Isn't that wonderful? And someone helped. Yeah. That's so great. Yeah. I have had this experience. You know, I do think that adopting across racial lines is a, is a, is a very huge deal.

And I don't know that I really understood. that so much. When they come to you and you fill out the paperwork, the social workers, you know, when you're in the process. And you're supposed to check a box by the races. And I was just like any. You know, I just thought, well, whatever. Who needs a parent?

Like I wasn't thinking necessarily about the challenges, right? I was just thinking, why would I choose, right? I'm going to let the universe choose, you know? And then I get into it and I'm like, oh. There's a lot of things. There's a lot of things. You know, you're dealing with people's perception on a daily basis and people at the park and, you know, other kids saying crazy shit to your kids.

I mean, I've heard kids say things to my children. I'm just like, deep breath, deep breath, deep breath. I must navigate this for the children now. And the hair, you know, is a very kind of obvious one. And I jumped in there pretty early. I found this incredible woman, another adoptive mom. and she wrote a book called Chocolate Hair Vanilla Care. It was great.

It was for all the white adoptive parents who needed help. And it was a step-by-step book with pictures of how to cornrow, how to twist, how to detangle, all the things. So I took a lot of pride in the beginning of doing her hair or trying, okay, trying to do her hair. And it was a big learning curve, obviously, really big learning curve. And then the box braid came back in like right before COVID time. And I was like, I'm going to do it. Yeah. And I've been really, really fortunate that some black moms from school have like taken me under their wing.

Thank the Lord and helped me. And one of them went to the swap me because I had one pack of hair away. Gemma wanted blue braids. So I had one pack of blue hair. I didn't understand that I needed like six packs of blue hair to do a whole. box braid because she wanted like long right and so I start and then and then she's calling me like how's it going on I'm like I don't have enough hair so she went to the swap meet to get me some more hair which was so sweet and drove it over because I'm like in the middle of it I don't have enough hair so you know

sometimes you're just so thankful for the the moms who will help you and then we're very lucky that we have people in our lives we've really had an incredible village um many black men for my son to be you know, role models and sports people and coaches. So it's going to ask about. I mean, there must be so many things that they're confronted with as black people in America today that you don't have necessarily the tools for. Exactly. How could I have the tools for?

I can read everything. I can, we go to a camp for interracially adopted, trans-relationally adopted is what I should say. Families, and that's hugely, hugely helpful experts come and talk to us, which is great. The kids play. the parents, the parents learn. But how could I ever have the experience to be able to say, oh, this happened to me or this happened to me?

I don't have that. So I've actively cultivated people in our lives who do have that. And I think that's hugely important. And I do think that the social worker who came to do my home study, they call it, when you're applying to adopt, she had said to me that I was going to need to think about that. She'd planted the seed. They're not harsh about it. They're not like, well, you're not going to know things and you have to find someone who is.

But they know what you should maybe look out for. Yeah, exactly. And she said you're going to need to cultivate, you know, some other people to be around you and to be around your child who are black. If that's who you end up adopting or who Latina, if that's who, you know, whoever it is, you have to honor that experience to know that you're not going to know everything. Right. And then you have to choose your school. So carefully. Oh, my good lord. The school situation. I mean, I had so many people who'd say like, oh, we're going to go to this one. You should go to this one. I'll be like, no. There's no diversity there. I cannot send my children there. I don't care if it's a quote, good school. A good school is not enough. Right, right, right. So you do learn a lot of stuff. It's ongoing, obviously. What is their awareness of sex and city? Well, it's very different for each of them because of their ages. So when Gemma was little, I tried not to do.

talk about it, like, too much, right? Like, she knew Cynthia, she knew Sarah, she knew their kids. She knew the people that you were girlfriends with. Yeah. But we didn't talk about the show that much. You know what I'm saying? Right. Because that's not really what we talk about when we see each other or whatever. Right. And then we were, she thought that my job was working for the elephants. What? What do you mean? Because I have this charity in Kenya, the David Sheldrick All right. I know about this. Yeah. Yeah. She thought that that that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that was my job, which is the cutest thing in the world. She's pretty young.

Totally. I do. I work for the elephants. Yes. So she thought for a few years, and I didn't correct her. I was like, that's right. That's right. That's really cute.

Then we were on a plane, and I think coming back from the grandparents, and in the row in front of us, someone was watching the movie. And she leaned in her, she's like, Mommy, that girl on the TV looks like you. Oh, wow. That is me. And see, that's Cynthia and that's Sarah, but obviously Cynthia's hair is different color, right? She was like, oh, like that was weird.

I'm sure to me. So then I'm sitting there thinking like... How old if she had this point? I want to say six, you know, a while. Right, but I mean, we've gone a while, right? Without having to, whatever, confront this. And then I thought, oh, no, what am I going to do in this movie? Do I?

What do I do? I had such a panic. She's not watching between the scenes. I was like, oh, Lord. But the movie was pretty, it was fine. I mean, they edit those down and, well, now I think they've watched things on. I've watched things on airplanes like, oh my God. No, now they just put it on.

That's like someone mounting someone else. Exactly, exactly. Now they just put it on with a little warning at the top. That's true. That's true. Man, oh wow. What is that? This is a honeycomb.

Yeah, this is a honeycomb ice. This has been on the menu for so many years. Amazing. And this is a panacotta that's flavored as urchata. So it's some rice and cinnamon, some strawberries, and some puffed black rice on top. Amazing. Yeah, thank you guys so much. Thank you.

Thank you. So incredible. Really good. I love to have you guys in at any time. Oh, we're coming with the kids, definitely, if that's okay. Thank you. So good. Thank you for doing this.

Oh, my God. Thank you for having me. I adore you. I know you have to say. I know. I've been on me. This episode of Dinners on Me was recorded at Rustic Canyon in Santa Monica, California. Next week on dinner.

On Me, you know her from The Good Place, a league of their own, and the new peacock drama, five-star weekend. It's Darcy Cardin. We talk about the surreal experience of being nominated for an Emmy during the pandemic, the hustle it took to make it in New York, including nannying for a Saturday Night Live alum, and the career-changing moment that led to The Good Place. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners on Me Plus.

As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad-free. Just click try free at the top of the Dinners On Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Dinner's On Me is a production of Sony music entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcast.

Sam Bear engineered this episode. Hans Dale She composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tamika Balance Kalasni and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.