Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - Lizzy Caplan — on the sitcom that brought us together, and the cult roles that made her a star

Episode Date: October 14, 2025

Actor Lizzy Caplan joins the show. Over fried catfish and Chinese broccoli salad, we reminisce about our early days as castmates in the sitcom “The Class”—including the infamous table read she slept through—and how that period shaped both of our careers. Lizzy shares stories about growing up in Los Angeles, breaking out in “Mean Girls,” and finding her voice in beloved cult shows like “Party Down.” We also get personal, reflecting on the loss of our parents in recent years, and why she couldn’t imagine raising her child anywhere but Brooklyn. This episode was recorded at Strange Delight in Fort Greene, Brooklyn. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Also, a little TV show called The Class. It's Lizzie Kaplan. Meat Slap. That's what we used to call you. Back in the class, did. Old Meat Slabs here reporting for duty. This is Dinner's On Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Lizzie and I have been first.

for many, many years now, I think we're going on our 20th anniversary, I would venture to guess. Lizzie's one of the first people I met in Los Angeles. We met doing a show called The Class together, which was, in my opinion, a cult classic, meaning that it was canceled after one season, and I think it really holds up. You should definitely try and find it on some streaming platform, if you can. It's quite fun. I have known Lizzie for so long, and I think. think she is such an incredibly funny and insightful person. So Lizzie actually picked today's

spot when I told her I wanted her to do this podcast. She goes, oh, I know exactly where I'm going to want us to go. It's right in her neighborhood. And funny enough, I've spoken about this before, but this also used to be my neighborhood as well. We are at Strange Delight in Fort Green Brooklyn. It's this buzzy little oyster bar that feels like a love letter to New Orleans. They're known for their charbroil oysters, fried shrimp, and oyster loaves on pellowy milk bread. The cocktails are apparently really incredible. I hear this 50-50 cocktail that's 50% vodka or gin and 50% vermouth is incredible. It takes a full shake to perfect.

You can probably hear them being shaken as we're speaking. It's playful. It's cozy. And it feels like the kind of place that you'd want to be a regular, like Lizzie apparently is. Oh, and I actually think I hear her walking in right now. Okay, let's get to the conversation. All right, quick heads up before we dive in. The audio gods were not on our side for the beginning of my chat with Lizzie Kaplan.

For the first nine minutes and 39 seconds, you'll hear our iPhone backup audio. But hey, listen, this is our 121 episode, and this is the first time that this has ever happened. So stick with us because after the... that. It's smooth sailing, I promise. And Lizzie is absolutely worth it. I love this place. It's so cute. This is a place when you said I know exactly where I'll take you. And it worked out. I love it. So cute. Great vibe. Everything's lovely. Food is delicious. You live so close to it. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. Thank you. Of course.

The menu for lunch is a little self-explanatory. You get to choose one protein on the top and then three sides at the bottom. On the other page, there are sandwiches below. with also side, with one side as well, the more additional stuff up top. I was looking on your Instagram and I saw some sandwich with like a, oh, it must be this fried catfish. Yeah, the loaves are pretty much like sandwiches that are like pretty much our car tick on a boboi. Yeah. But instead of like on a, usually like traditional like a baguette or a hoagy, they're like on a Japanese milk bread. They're really good.

So the dough is a more sauce. You could really appreciate the crispness of either protein. I was appreciating it just visually and now I want to appreciate it in my mouth. Okay. Yeah, definitely. Okay. This Chinese broccoli salad thing is like one of my favorite. Okay.

Of all time things. Is that something you share or is it like... I mean, it's pretty tiny, but we can... You love sharing. Remember that extendable fork we got you? We're going to talk about all this. Um, I have my coffee here and my water and... But what are you supposed to do on this podcast?

Do you drink? You can have... You could do what every want. Yeah, but then I'm going to, it's like 9 a.m. You don't have to drink, drink. You don't have to drink, drink. But I can if you want. I'm not going to get what I usually drink here, which is my favorite drink, I think, ever. This 50-50 martini.

I'm not getting a martini. That's crazy. That's like madman shit. Yeah, that's like don't greasy. That's what I'll do a little glass of wine, though. Sure. What's the coffee? I'm good with the coffee.

I might get an effervescent, non-alcoholic. What's your favorite? For non-alcoholic? Yeah. I do have a little bit of a sweet tooth, so I usually prefer the hurricane and soda. It's pretty much like our hurricane cocktail, but with, you know, non-acoholic. Okay. It's really refreshing.

I'll try it. You're still in a moment to look over this. I think we actually... I think we're good. I think we're good. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to have the catfish, fried catfish loaf sandwich.

Catfish loaf sandwich. And you get one side. I get one side with that. Oh, I can have the Chinese broccoli salad with mine. Okay, that's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna do Chinese broccoli salad. Or we can get it for the table, and you can get an additional side.

You want me to get an additional Chinese broccoli salad? Or you want to get the Chinese broccoli salad to share? Okay. And through? I think I'm gonna do this one. Is it good? The tomato of? Yeah, that's actually really good. Like the way they...

Oh, you are getting a fried-green tomato? Yeah. I can do split season when you want for it. Yeah. Yeah, it's really good. Yeah, girl. Perfect. And do we have any algae?

No. Wow. Thank you. You're the first person I've had on from the class. And I am very excited to talk about those years. Yeah, me too. So for those who don't know, the class, those who haven't heard on the show, It was canceled.

Well, if it wasn't this podcast, they've heard about it. But, yeah. It was canceled. If you're on this podcast, there's a good listening to it. There's a chance. But also, Lizzie, there are a lot of people who loved at that show. I think they, I'm not enough people. But I will say, in today's standards, like, those numbers that we were getting would have been, it would have been a hit show.

Totally. But that, the show, the class was such a. And for me, it was something that I, because I was not living in L.A. at the time. I was doing theater here in New York, and I had no desire to ever even go to L.A. So for me, it was something that was, it was like the ship that brought me to Los Angeles. And I was like, oh, this is exciting. Like, I'm on this shiny ship that, like, everyone is paying attention to. It's a show that, like, people are excited about.

Apparently all the actors were, like, kind of clamoring to get in for it. And I was, like, on the ship. And I was like, this is very exciting. And so I, like, it was my introduction to Los Angeles. So crazy. What was it like? Because you grew up in L.A. Like, you, I remember, like, I don't know, maybe we ended up in, like, some space for an award.

Oh, I think it was the People's Choice Awards. And you're like, oh, yeah, I graduated high school here. I was like, what? I think it was, was it my, it was that or my prom? Yeah, something like that. I was like, what, are you kidding me? I know, it's crazy. This is where you had your prom?

I know. And I went to the public school and was like, I didn't even go to a band. I mean, but what was it, first of all, what was it like to, like, grow up and did, did you know that you want to be part of the industry when you were young? When I was 15, but not before, that adult. Like, I had no dreams of doing it before. Because you went to a performing arts high school, right? Yes, but I went for piano, and then I had to switch to something else, and I just picked drama, like, random.

Yeah. And that's why. Oh. Yeah. But, uh, growing up in LA, not being in the industry, not having parents in the industry, it's like growing up anywhere. It was back then. I don't think it's really the same now,

but it definitely was back then. I mean, it's crazy that, like, this insane industry was in your backyard. I know, it is. It makes it seem like it would, I mean, clearly it was easy to decide to do this when I was already there, easier than having to, like, move from some other place.

But it felt as separate as living in a different city. I mean, for the class, If I remember correctly, like, you were kind of late. I was last. You were last cast. And I feel like they had to catch. It was like a Friday maybe before we were starting on Monday. I remember it was very late.

I think I- Remember I slept too. I wanted to bring that up, yeah. I forgot that until sitting here right now. We also have a little, nice little treat for you guys as well. We have a smoked fish dip. Saved by the trout. Saved by the schmoked.

Yeah. And these are fry saltings, tossing. fried saltines. Yeah, and they're tossing real seasoning. They're addicting, so take a bite. You don't know when it's tough. Okay, yeah, so yeah, I want to talk about you sleeping through the table rate. I really did.

Did you forget about it? I did not forget about it. It's on my notes. It's a missing first table rate is on my notes. That was so... Oh, that was right up top of my notes. Wait, to go back a little bit, though, like this was such a buzzy, buzzy show and um thank you thank you thank you thank you and sweet potatoes with

thank you so much yes thank you chef thank you chef and enjoy and because it was such a hot pilot the first table read and maybe this is how it always is like with a network but it felt like a real big deal There's like a billion people. A billion people showed up. Like from the networks, they come down from their offices, and it's like the most, the people who are running like Warner Brothers, what did you just have? I did he didn't want.

That's incredible. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we return, Lizzie recalls just how much of a disaster that first table read of the class really was, and we exchanged memories of our old co-star John Bernthal and his pack of pit bulls he used to bring on to set. Okay, be right back. You know, between two kids, two dogs, and my rehearsal schedule,

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I recognize that I was probably cast out of desperation rather than enthusiasm at that They had to find this person. So, in my bed, night before, ready, ready to face the day, have my outfit laid out, the whole thing. And then the power went out overnight. And this was like pre-alarm on your phone. And it was like a blinking alarm clock. And I woke up 10 minutes after the table read started. Had started.

Yes. I remember running downstairs, I was living with my... Best friend Marissa at the time, freaking out, freaking out, crying, not knowing what to do. She was like, I didn't know. I thought, did it was I supposed to wait you out again? And then I raced to the table read. What was the mode of connection to you? Was it through an agent that would have called your home phone?

I think I just woke up on my own. But like, what? I imagine there must have been calls being made. Like, where were those calls collecting? I mean, I guess I remember I had a T-Mobile sidekick, which I believe was also a phone. Okay. So, yeah. Yeah, I was probably, yeah, I was like, I don't know where to go.

I don't know where to go, because I always get lost on lots, studio lots anyway. Yeah, yeah. So I, like, race there. I wasn't that. It didn't take me that long to get there, but it was now maybe 30 minutes into the table read. And I'm running around the Warner Brothers lot. I have no idea where to go in, like, a platform shoe. It was like, sobbing, like, sobbing.

And I finally make it in, and you guys were finished. And I had never met any of you before. And they were so mad, but they couldn't do anything because they didn't have anybody to replace me with because I was already like maybe a, you know, a last ditch. Right, we were starting to shoot it the next day. So they couldn't fire me, but I think they would have. And then everybody thought I was like an asshole, I think.

I think. I don't remember thinking that. But like I guess I remember sort of like a writer's assistant reading, a cat, and like, you know. You remember David and Jeffrey being like so mad, like just maybe not mad, but like disappointed. Yeah. It was

horrible. It was horrible. And it really was like, can't stress enough how like shiny and fancy this thing was and everybody was scared. Maybe not you. I was terrified. I was scared. I was terrified. I remember, I just didn't know what I was doing.

Yeah. I remember James Burroughs, our director, the iconic. Angel. Angel James Burroughs coming over to me and like I was playing a scene and he like literally just like moved my shoulders to the camera. I was like playing a scene with my back back. I just didn't know where where cameras were. Also he's a magician in that way. Also brilliant in the comeback.

Like brilliant. Yes, he has a role in the comeback. I think he would like win an Emmy if it was on now. Like he's so good in it. Well, and that's, that was my only point of reference for James Burroughs was watching him in the comeback. No way. And so when I went to audition for him, I was like, I mean, I knew. I knew who he was. I knew his name. He directed Cheers and Taxi and, you know, friends and Will and Grace. But I knew his face from the actor who played the director in The Comeback.

Yes, that's so funny that that's how you knew. I was like so kind of starstruck. I was starstruck by everything, though. Because it felt like a different time in that like you drove onto the lives and it just, I don't even know what, I mean, I guess you shot Modern Family on a lot. We did. We did. But like, I mean, nothing beats that first. time. I remember when we were shooting the pilot, Matt LeBlanc and Matthew Perry came to say hello to James. And like, I remember just like being bold over by, I was like, oh my God, it's those guys from TV. And like, I mean, friends, again, had just ended. And I just had never been around people that famous before. And I just, it took my breath away. I still remember. It's like the last time I think I was truly starstruck. I believe it. I mean, that's pretty intense. That

moment, especially like, you're not just, like, see, you know, you're in it now. You're in the next friends. But it was like they were doing the thing, they were the people who I was hoping to be one day. Yeah. Fucking crazy. Totally crazy. And just walking around the lot, you would see people all the time. Yeah.

Like, it's amazing. It was amazing. Just wanted to check in, how is everything tasting. It's incredible. What do you think of the catfish? The catfish is incredible. We're going to switch in a second short. And you tried the, this is your first time trying the tomato loaf as well.

I'm on the fence about loaf is a selling point for food. What about meat loaf? I don't know what you call it otherwise. Like meat bun sounds wrong. Yeah, meat bun sounds worse. Meat mass. Meat chunk. Meat hunk.

I mean, there's nothing else. Meat slab. I don't have, meat flap is way worse. Meat slab. That's what we used to call you. Back in the class, dear. Old meat slabs here reporting for duty. I do want to, like, circle back to just how much you loved sharing food.

First of all, you could put it down. We had, like, the metabolisms of, like, hummingbirds back when we first met. Do you remember before show night and we would go to the caveteria and just eat, like, house food? Five thousand. Never would I ever. I know. Like, before going. I would die now.

But Lizzie loved sharing so much, specifically French fries, that we got her a retractable fork so that she could reach across a very big table and eat off of your plate. But also. You were the second, that was the second retractable fork I got that year. No. As again. Yeah. I don't understand when people don't share food. That's so good.

What are we doing? What are we even doing? Oh my God, it's so funny. It was also just this very special group where everybody was, everybody brought something to the table socially. Yeah. And something different. And it was this like very magical alchemy. between everybody.

That was the saddest thing about the show getting canceled. You're going to like reach this promised level of success. It would be nice to do it with people

you love so much and felt so safe with. I mean, and that's, I think, what I most fondly remember about it. You know, Justin watched the class for the first time

during COVID. Oh, what? He's like, this show is great. I know. I mean, he got addicted to it. He's like, can we watch another episode

of the class? It's like, yeah. So I watched it again with him And listen, I think it holds up. I think it's very funny. I'm going to watch it. I need to get a DVD.

It's definitely a throwback and it's nostalgic. I mean, for me, I also, you know, I felt like I was a fish out of water. But you, I mean, I forget how soon after Mean Girls that was. It was just like two years. That's crazy. Is that true? I think so. I remember, at least like two or three years.

I think so. I mean, I know it was that. I didn't realize it was that quick. But I didn't want to audition for it because I. I thought it was too close to my character in Mean Girls. And I remember my agent, Warren, telling me, that's insane. Don't think that anybody's paying that close attention to what you're doing.

Oh. And it was like some of the best advice I've ever got. Wow. I was like, I can't do this. I had, I was like kind of the emo, goth girl and mean girls. I can't do it again. He's like, no, he gives a shit. And he was right.

Do you also remember the smokehouse? The smoke house. Across the street? Like a classic place. I mean, we, so we would go to the smokehouse every night after a tape night. After taping. Tape night was like, I mean, for people who got to do a multi-camera show, you kind of got the best about the world because you got to do a TV show,

but it also felt like theater, especially if you're filming a fun of a live audience, which we were. Yeah. So I was, like, living my life. I felt so at home with this live audience every night giving me immediate feedback. For sure. You were, like, by far the best with that. Well, Julie Halston, let's be honest. Oh, Julie Halston.

A grande d'all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then we would finish the show, you know, and do whatever pickups we needed to do. And then we would, it would be like 11, 12 at night, and we would go to the smokehouse, which is this iconic restaurant across the street from. Warner Brothers, and I don't know, do you remember this? Jennifer Westfield would always be there with her boyfriend, John Hamm, who was always, like, he was struggling and, like, did not know what. I knew John, because he got fired off related.

Interesting. Yeah, so I had known him a thing. But he, this was pre-Madman. Very pre-Madman. And he was, like, just hanging out with nothing else to do. And so he would, like, meet his girlfriend. But I just remember how rag tag that group would be afterwards. Like, we would just be a whole bunch of actors who just wanted to hang out.

And we were young enough that, like, we didn't have families to go home to. No, we had nothing. Most of us lived alone. Or, like, maybe with a roommate. You didn't care about, like, oh, what do you have to do tomorrow? Like, sleep till 2 p.m. anyway. Yeah. It was a dream. And we would, like, eat dinner.

Everybody's guests. Because everybody would have guests. Yeah, we'd have guests. We'd all bring our friends over. It was, like, a party every week. Yeah. I remember laughing so. so hard with that group of people that like, like painful laugh.

Yeah. And I love them all still. I know. Me too. Me too. And we, what I love about that group of people is we, even though I don't talk to a lot of them as regularly as I talk to you and Ray Anders and Lucy Punch and Jason Ritter and I have sort of reconnected and I see him a lot. But I'm in touch with all of them. Yeah.

I just was texting with John Bernthal. He's about to do Broadway. God, I love him so much. Oh, I love him so much. He's one of the most authentic, like, actual tough guys. Yeah. As opposed to, like, so many of these, like, actor tough guys who are really, like, secretly very posh and soft and, yeah.

Burnthol, like. He's the real deal. pit bulls pit bulls are like mixed martial arts friends and I remember loving them because they let me punch them in the face as hard as I could it was amazing

I remember like he would always have his pit bulls and his dressing room and they would just be like shitting on whatever they wanted to shit on or like eating I remember like I think Warner Brothers had given us like a gift of like it was like a caddy for

you know like cuff links and like things like that and of course John's like what the fuck am I to do with this this. So I think he like used it as a dog bowl for his dog boss and his dog ate out of this like beautiful leather like catty. Amazing. She's like, I don't need a catty. I need a dog bowl for my dressing room.

You two were the best like odd couple homies ever. Yeah, that relationship really popped and I loved working with him. And there are some outtakes of us together that are just hilarious. I mean, for you, when that was canceled, you had already been a part of, like, related, which was canceled. I love being on things. It was sort of like the first big, yeah, me too, I love it. Oh, yeah. It was sort of like the first big, was it the first big disappointment that you had?

It was probably teed up as potentially, like, the biggest success. So, yeah. Yeah. I guess. I mean, I don't remember. I saw everything so differently then. Like, it really was so results-oriented. And I just don't feel that way about doing this anymore.

But that, you know, there's like the story that I think a few of us have told about the private jet. Like most people aren't teed up for that kind of success. Right. Yeah. The producers took us to Vegas on a private jet. None of us had been on a private jet. And it was like, this is the last time you all are going to be together without getting mobbed by fans. So enjoy it. Say goodbye to your anonymity.

Yes, which they did. For Friends, which... They did for Friends, and for Will & Grace. They did the same thing. They took the cast of Friends to Vegas, and they took the cast of Will & Grace to Palm Springs. But it was the same thing. Two out of three ain't bad. Two out of three ain't bad.

But yeah, it was crazy. So, like, to have that not happen. I remember feeling like when it was canceled, like, okay, well, that was my shot at television. Yeah. And that's okay. I have theater to go back to. And... Well, I remember going to your apartment in Silver Lake.

Yeah. Your little tiny one-bedroom apartment. Uh-huh. Which my friend DJ took over, which is so weird. And you showed us, I forget who it was. Is it me and Jason or me and Andrew? I don't remember. You showed us the pilot of Modern Family.

I remember sitting on the couch watching it. Which also, by the way, like, when an actor is like, can I show you my pilot? I mean, what worse? But back then, it was so. Ready. You gave face on. Yeah, it's like, what's up? Do you want to listen to my new song?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I remember watching and being like, oh, this is really good, this is really good. And then the moment where Eric Stone Street, like, lifted the baby. Yeah, to lying. This is actually, like, I laughed aloud. It's like, oh, this is going to be a thing. Uh-huh.

Little did I know. It would be as big of a thing as it was. But, I mean, crazy. I mean, but yeah, I have to say, like, the cancellation of the class, I think, for me, like, prepared me to not worry so much about, modern family. You know, even though I think from the outside perspective,

Enimo would be like, oh, we always, but they knew that it would go on to be a thing. When you're in it, you don't really have that perspective. No. You can love what you're doing so much

and it could just not work out. For sure. I'd definitely been wrong. I think you can get a feeling, but I think more importantly on an ongoing TV show, it's more just do I want to potentially spend many years with this particular

group of people. And usually the answer is like, eh, but with the class it was yes. Modern family, I assume it was yes. Party down, I'm sure. Party down, it was absolutely yes. But that was like the scrappiest of the scrap. But for me, I feel like that was such a,

if we're looking at like all the stuff that you've done in your career, like that really stands out is something that pops because, first of all, it was such an incredible ensemble both people. Amazing. And I feel like, I mean, you've always been considered to be, like, I think,

a hilarious actress, and I think, like, you can do many things. But, like, that was, you were playing with, like, the big kids. I mean, it was Jane Lynch and Adam Scott. And, like, I mean, it was a wild group of people. And it was. All the people from the state that were on, like, yeah, it was, it was nuts. I mean, it was nuts for me, like, Jane Lynch was, I mean, I was very star-struck because of Best in Show, like, she was a goddess.

And then Jennifer Coolidge replaced Jane Lynch for the last two episodes of the thing. Who's also a goddess? And I loved her from also Best In Show, so in my mind, like, I didn't need White Lotus to know she was incredible. And then Megan Malawi was in the second, like, it was nuts. It was nuts. And Adam, though, at that point, was just as scrappy as anybody else. Like, Martin Star, I knew forever.

But everybody else was, like, scrapping. Scrapping hard. And, like, we did that show for, you know, $0, and nobody watched it. And I'm very proud of it. It's such a cult hit, though. But nobody watched it. But, you know, I think if I hadn't done the class and just did Party Down, Party Down, and be like, that was the first time I really saw what this could be.

And it was just another example of, like, damn, I really lucked out with these people. He's like side-splitting people that I cannot get through five minutes without dying laughter. And, like, I don't know why you would, I know there are some actors that never really get that experience. And I don't think I would, I don't think I would have continued doing this if not for those experiences. Like, these are, like, very, very important. Because it reminds you that, like, it's not just. about going and clocking in for a job. It's about like a life experience and connections with people.

It's not a regular job. Yeah. So it shouldn't feel like a regular job. And there are some jobs that do, for sure. Paycheck jobs or whatever, like jobs you have to do for whatever reason. But it shouldn't, it should be, I really do believe it should be fun to be there. Yeah. Now for a quick break, but don't go away.

After the break, Lizzie and I talk about navigating the loss of a parent while raising kids ourselves, and we get into what it's like raising kids in New York versus L.A. Okay, be right back. Lately, our August calendar has been absolutely packed between summer travels, Sunday dinners with friends, chasing our kids around the park. It's busy in the best possible way. And when you're juggling all that and you realize you need to hire someone fast, that's a whole different kind of heat. That's where Indeed comes in. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need.

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about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash dinners on me. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring, Indeed is all you need. You know, one of my favorite parts about this show is how much it reminds me of the little ways people show up for each other. A few years ago, I was starting rehearsal for a new play, and a friend surprised me by sending money for my lunch on the first day.

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Let yourself run, lift, flow, and go. Explore the new Peloton Cross-Training Treadplus at OnePeloton.ca. And we're back with more dinners on meme. This is such a horrible pivot, and I apologize in advance. But we did just experience loss recently. Yeah. I think I lost my mom a few months after you lost your dad. January for me, yeah.

Oh, so a few months before. Before. Yeah, November for me. Yeah, and. How are you doing, by the way? I'm doing okay. How are you doing? I'm all right.

I know for you, it's different, you'd already lost your mom when you were much younger, 13? 13. So I completed the set. You really did, yeah. Yeah. But I remember, I think we talked about it, how, like, fucked up it is to, like, lose a parent and how. And you're this age, yeah, with young kids, it's worse.

That's what I was going to say is, like, what I think I really remember talking to you about was, and you've experienced as obviously as someone who doesn't have kids and then again later in life with having children but you know the loss of anyone that close to you when you are a parental figure to anyone I think obviously you know you're a mother and I'm a father but like I think anyone who knows what it feels like to feel parental towards someone

in a really meaningful way that loss I don't know it hit me in a way that I was not expecting it to And for me, it made me have to jump out of it in a way that I was not expecting to as well because I had to then be present for these children that I am, you know, in charge of and emotionally in charge of. Has, did Alfie have a relationship with your dad? He did, but my dad was, my dad had dementia. So their relationship was like unbelievably sweet. and wonderful, and my dad, I mean, my dad's favorite human being was Alfie, for sure.

And Alfie loved him. There's something really sweet about, like, very young kids and older people. Like, they have a bond that's really interesting. But as far as, like, boots on the ground grandparent, he never really experienced that with my dad. I mean, he loved my dad. But I'm also, yes, you're right, I went through it at a time where there was no, silver lining at all and now I see that having the kids like force you out of that grief cycle is amazing yeah but I could also see like I know your mom wasn't well

this idea that like okay you're sort of preparing in a way and then being completely blindsided by how much it would fuck you up if like losing a parent there's no preparing for it like regardless of your relationship lack of relationship, it cuts to your core and really, like, forces you to sort of look at your life. And so many people right now, because everybody's having kids so late now, are experiencing these things at the same time. I think when my mom passed away, it was just all bad. It was all sad trauma that led to, like, many years of more of the same. With my dad, I wasn't anticipating having, and I don't even feel like guilty saying this, because I don't,

fucking loved my dad. But there is a sense of relief to it. Yeah. I think that's really relatable though and I think people are afraid to talk about that. Yeah. But you know no one wants to see their loved ones suffer no either and I think it's okay to feel relief

that they're not suffering anymore. Relief for him relief for all of us that like this has been hanging over us for soul and trying to just do whatever we can to do right by him and make his life as comfortable and nice as possible like the pressure of that and also

you know being a caregiver for your parent while at the same time being a caregiver for your young child is like that's a mind fuck yeah um I've talked about this a little bit but I you know my mom

when we were sort of like figuring out what we were going to do in those last days and she was like we're talking about hospice and it was clear that like if we were going to do this it was going to be like okay now this like the the clock is starting and yeah you know it's just gonna be a matter of time and there was talk about

like what to do with her remains and like I know I remember talking to you about this like with in the Jewish community things happen so fast so fast it's I mean that I can't even imagine yeah it's crazy like having to like start right away like we were had a little bit of time because we we we did a cremation um but there was discussion also about like well then then what yeah and It's weird having that discussion because my mom was, you know, fully capable of having these conversations. Yeah. You know, we were talking about like, what do you want? She was like, well, I think he's, and just like the pragmatic discussion about like.

Insane, insane. But also how calm she was about it was astonishing to me. She was like, okay, well, I want you to divide the remains between the three of you. And then that's up to you. And so like, I was having these conversations with her. I was like, well, I mean, do you want to just like be in an earn? in my house? And then she's like, well, you love traveling.

Just take me traveling with you. And so what I did, and when I went to London, you know, this going to London was one of the things I thought maybe I'd not have been able to do with my mom still around. I took a little bit of her and I just sprinkled it around different parts of London, which is probably totally illegal. Definitely. Don't admit to that.

I mean, well, they don't know where she is. And they don't know if I really did it. Yeah, no. This is just for the podcast. Yeah. But I You know And then I came to New York and like

I'm performing the Delicourt Which is someplace that she saw me perform so many times I was like well there might be a little bit of Anne Ferguson At the Delacourt Who knows? Shoshing redemption like shaking it out of your pants Everywhere you go But there was something

My brother came to see the show last night And I was pointing to a few places like There might be a little bit of mom over there And he was like oh I love this so much But I don't know I'm trying to find joy in this moment now of, like, it doesn't feel like, the reason I'm talking about this is, it doesn't feel like she's gone right now. It feels like there's an extension, like, an extra, like, an extra, like, epilogue of, like,

that's so interesting. Because I'm presently looking for places for her to be. That's really wonderful. How has it been living in New York? I mean, you and Tom are both kind of, you know, Tom's from England, you know, from California. Obviously, you both spend a lot of time here, but I know that you're so happy here in Brooklyn. I'm so happy here. It's crazy. I'm just, you know, as a Jew forever waiting for the other shoe to drop. Yeah. But we were in between L.A. and London for 10 years, and then we now live here. And I can't picture raising a kid anywhere else. I think this city is so special. I love Brooklyn.

And there's something about here versus L.A. And I will always love L.A. It is my hometown. But when I was growing up there, we had a lot of freedom. And I think that parents in L.A. are more nervous about giving their kids freedom. As a general, you know, obviously there are a million exceptions to this. But the most general blanket statement is parents here seem to still really value independence and, like, having their kids, like, get a lot of them.

on with it on their own. And I really want that for him. It seems like a city that offers the ability to do that, though. I've talked to a few of my friends who grew up in New York, and like this was their backyard. And

you know, they took the subway by themselves and they were latched or what do you call it? Latch Keeh Kidd kids. And you know, they they, I mean, Padman Lockshire has these stories about like just like, the The five-block radius around her apartment was her playground.

Yeah. And, like, the doorman all knew her. Totally. And, like, it's just... And it still feels like that. Which it doesn't still... Like, in L.A., growing up, we had so much... It really was, like, come home when the sun comes down vibes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And nobody is raising their kids like that there anymore, which I get. I don't know if I would, if I was there, it feels like a very different city now. But I think because my childhood was so... There were my best friend, lived three doors down. My other best friend lived two blocks away. Like, we were all running around with each other all the time. And I see that for him here now in a way that I lived in the same house in L.A. for 10 years.

And I didn't know any of my neighbors. Yeah. I maybe knew one. Oh, I know my neighbors. Yeah. And that. We're trying to be better. It's hard.

After the fires, actually, we went around and, like, properly introduced. and it was crazy that tragedy is what brought on that impetus to connect with your so many people I've talked to about about this exact thing my best friend who lived two blocks away she lives in Altadena she if not for the tight-knit community of Altadena like giving each other information while the fires were burning they probably would have lost their house which they didn't understanding the need for this community which again is really hard to find in L.A. People are behind their gates,

for better and for worse, for reasons that make sense and reasons that make less sense. That is just not something you get in other, like, more proper cities, I guess. Like, I remember when Tom first started hanging out in L.A., and he's like, I need to walk places. I need to walk to the corner store

and get a drink and then go back in. Oh, no. Noddy, naughty bird. This is good. are at Cuckooley and chicory powder. Thank you. I have to share, so play nice around. Yes, sir.

I know you're stuck, but once you take a bite, you're not going to stop. I know it is. It's really good. I do think that the fires, though, like, it totally made me dig up all the love I had for L.A. That was maybe buried. Like, I was here, and it was really hard to not be there. And I really will always love that city. It is my home.

And I think a lot of people started talking to their neighbors after that. Yeah. And not really realizing that that was something. But I kind of think that's the issue with everything these days. Like the lack of community. And if you can find community anywhere, your life is a happier life. And community that's face-to-face, not community on a device. Face-to-face, like you could knock on their door.

They could pick up your kid in a bind, like whatever the version of that is. So I kind of. think the secret to everything is finding your little corner of the world and like knowing the people around. I mean, it definitely feels like you and Tom are doing a great job of creating this like next chapter of your life here. That's why you should do it. I might. Because that's the other thing. Like I have family in L.A. He has family in England. And so we don't have family here. And it really is like all created family. Yeah. I'm sort of used to doing that. And I really like that.

I'm really glad that when the kids were younger, we had so much family around us. Yeah. It is no joke. I'm so glad we finally did this. I realize as I've looked back, like, I have, I mean, I have a lot of really, really close friends. But, like, I don't have a ton of people that I've known as long as you. But, like, you know, I really do value, like, your friendship so much. much. I remember the year you were nominate for Masters of Sex. We were at the Emmys together

and like how cool it was just to see someone that, you know, we started, I feel like we started off together. You know, you had a bit of, you know, much more for a fancy career than I did when we met. But like, you know, it felt really, and even seeing like John Bernthal's success with the bear and going on to do Broadway. And I just, I'm just so proud of, of you. And like, I'm so happy that we stayed in touch. And I get very excited every time I see a new listing for a Fort Green house. I've got a new one for you today. I do.

I have all your babysitters lined up for you too. So come on. Yeah, there's literally not a person that has taken care of our kids that you have not recommended. It's like the highest praise of all times. It's true. You're a good better of apartments, of houses, and of childcare. Take my word for it on my name. And honestly, I love you, Jesse.

You are a true blue angel boy and, like, family, family. Same. Same zies. Thanks for doing this. Thanks for bringing me here. I want to bring Justin back for dinner. But for now, dinner's on me. He said it.

He said it. Dinners on Me was recorded at Strange Delight in Fort Green, Brooklyn. Next week on Dinners on Me, you know her as Melrose on Netflix's Glow, and more recently is Esther and nobody wants this. It's Jackie Tone. We'll get into what it's like working alongside her longtime bestie Kristen Bell, not for the first time, and making it pretty damn far on American Idol in 2009. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen,

you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners On Me Plus. As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, they'll also be able to listen completely ad free. Just click Try Free

at the top of the Dinners On Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Dinner's On Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by, me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcalf.

Alex Schumann and Ashley Scurlock assisted in the production of this episode in New York. Sam Baer engineered this episode. Hansdale She composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tamika Balance Kalasney and Justin McKita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.