Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - Martha Plimpton — on almost going broke pre 'Raising Hope' and missing River Phoenix

Episode Date: June 17, 2025

'Raising Hope’ star Martha Plimpton joins the show. Over pork chops and braised beans, Martha looks back at the 1985 classic ‘The Goonies,’ why she feels embraced in London more than Hollywood, and she reflects on her special relationship with the late River Phoenix. This episode was recorded at Forza Wine at The National Theatre in London’s South Bank. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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without the ads. Hey, it's Jesse. Today on the podcast, you know her from the Goonies, Prime Target on Apple TV Plus, also Raising Hope and the Real O'Neils. It's my dear, dear friend, Martha Plimpton. My accountant and I talked and he was like, you have $300, something needs to happen. And I remember putting on Facebook, I'll babysit, I'll do anything. And at the time I was friends with this woman

and she almost responded too quickly and too gleefully. I'd love to hire you. This is Dinners On Me and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. MUSIC Martha Plimpton and I have known each other for, ooh, almost two decades now. We are dear friends.

We worked together on stage at the Delacorte Theater in Central Park doing Shakespeare, and now we're reunited almost two decades later, playing husband and wife on stage in the Sondheim musical here we are at the National Theatre in London. I am so excited to be working with her again and I have always wanted to get Martha on this podcast. I am such a fan of hers. She is an 80s icon. I'm a massive fan of the Goonies. It's literally one of my favorite movies. I

have always held my tongue when I'm around her because I don't want to embarrass myself, but here is my chance, my opportunity to gush to her about how much her career means to me and still be cool about it and feed her. So I decided to grab Martha before one of our performances and take her up to Forza Wine Bar at the top of the National Theater.

It's this beautiful wine bar with great tapas. They have incredible natural wines. Beautiful view of the South Bank Riverfront and the Thames River. Forza has definitely become a, it's almost like a second home to Martha Plifton and I because it's at our work, it's upstairs, it's literally steps away from our stage door.

Martha and I know this menu very, very well. It's the first time Walter, her service dog, has eaten here though, so that's exciting. Okay, let's get to the conversation. Hi. Hi. Hi, honey. So fun to be here with you at Forza, the wine bar.

We've never been here, have we Martha? We've never, ever, ever eaten here before. We have not ever eaten here. We work in the building and we come here almost once a week. Yeah. Hi, how are you? Could we just have some tap water?

To start, for sure. To start. And do you have just iced tea? Iced tea, yeah we can do that. I would love an iced tea. I've never heard you more sad. It would be amazing. I've never heard you more sad than just now.

Drinking iced tea at a wine bar. You're being very responsible. Yeah. I'll have an iced tea as well to make Martha not feel so lonely. Thank you very much. I think it's sort of interesting just to talk about, first of all, why we're here at this restaurant. Obviously, we're working at The National here in London doing Sond Times.

Here we are. And this is an incredible building. So we're having a little bite before our evening show. But also there's chaos going on in our theater right now because we have a little bit of a bug going through the cast and one of our actresses is sick and she's out and her understudy has been out as well. Sick and like seriously, not well. And one of our other actors. Not like a cold or laryngitis, like an actual illness. It needs to be put on fluids. And one of our other actors, Dennis O'Hare,

has also been out with something for a week with emergency things. And so last night, instead of doing a show, we canceled the show, which we did not want to do because 900 people had tickets to come see Here We Are at the National, and we did not want to do, because 900 people had tickets to come see Here We Are at the National, and we had to cancel that show. And what we did instead was because we don't have anyone

available for this role, a plan B, which is Lily, our assistant director, going on with script in hand. Or plan C, frankly, plan C. Yeah, plan C, with script in hand, which is not easy. And it went surprisingly smooth. It wasn't ideal, obviously. It's not a performance.

She's basically Elmer's glue to keep the show together so we don't have to cancel a show tonight. All is well, but there was a point where we thought we might be going on tonight with. With an assistant director. The assistant director reading. Reading from an iPad and wearing her normal clothes, which would have been very. It wouldn't have been ideal.

It would not have been ideal. But it, you know, it's part of the beauty of being a stage actor and it's also like a part of the, I can't believe sometimes that we do what we do. It's a mental illness that we do what we do. It's a mental illness. It's a mental illness. Jane do what we do. It's a mental illness. It's a mental illness. Jane says it almost every night.

She comes backstage and right before she says, her first line in the play, she says, why are we doing this? What are we doing? But we all love it so much. Yeah, we love it because we're sick, because we're sick people. In no other world of acting,

like on television or film, it's not as fly by the city of your pants as theater is. I think the term the show must go on has been softened a little bit because I feel like we have to think of ourselves and take care of ourselves. But that is sort of like the, yes. Have you had any thoughts on food at all?

Oh, we've had thoughts. We know we've had the whole, well, we've had the whole menu. Yeah, we've had the whole menu. We can do the whole menu. There's some things that we haven't had. I don't know what this carosella. Okay, so carosella is basically a cucumber,

but it's actually a melon. Oh. We never had that. We've never had that, that's new. Yeah. I wanna try that. Yeah, let's definitely have that. Let's definitely have, do you like the pork chop?

I love the pork chop. Let's get the pork chop. Do you like sea bream? I do. Let's get the sea bream. Braised beans. Yes, please. Braised beans and new potatoes.

New potatoes. That's what we're going to do. That sounds great to me. Amazing. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks a lot. But it's all to say, like, being a stage actor, it's a whole other...

You're expected to... It's just so much harder. It's so much of the moment. You have to be present. You can't call it in, you can't phone it in. They can't delay your scenes to the next day. And we're experiencing that right now. We're trying to keep the show up and running and we're calling in people

and assistant directors are going on with iPads. It's chaotic, but I mean, I met you doing a play. and we're calling in people and assistant directors are going on with iPads. Yeah. It's chaotic, but I mean, I met you doing a play. We met, I'm going to say like 15, 16 years ago. I think that's right, yeah. Doing Shakespeare in the Park in New York, doing Midsummer Night's Dream. And I, first of all, I've already told you this, but I was so excited to work with you because I was such a big fan of yours, and I'm so thrilled that a friendship developed

and that we've stayed in touch. Oh, lovely, look at this. Because this is gorgeous. Well, first of all, I was a replacement. I was too. You were too? I didn't know you were a replacement. Yeah, and then, with the first day of tech,

our director, Dan Sullivan, fell through the trap door on the stage and broke every bone in his body and had to be in the hospital for the rest of the time. Yeah, that was insane. It was really, really intense and scary. We... We'd been through some real theatrical...

Maybe it's us. I know, I know. I was going to say, wait a minute. Are we jinxing on every production we're in? Yeah, yeah, don't bring them together in the same room. I know, I know. I was gonna say, wait a minute, are we jinxing on every production we're in? Yeah, yeah, yeah, don't bring them together in the same room. But I have loved being on stage with you again.

It's been a great reunion. Me too. A few nights ago you said, you know what? I think I'm gonna start wearing the pins during the show. And I said, what do you mean? Are you having a hard time holding your bladder? And you're like, well, we get wet at one point in the second act. You said, after we get wet, I always feel like

I'm gonna have to pee. I really have to pee. And I said, Martha, you know what's happening right after we get wet is I'm lying next to you, spooning you, sleeping on stage. I was like, do you feel like you're going to need to pee in that moment? And also, if you have the depends on... For the rest of the act, I'm like, I know I'll have urine in my pants.

Yeah. But it depends, so it doesn't leak. I just want to know... It won't leak. I know it won't leak. It won't leak on you. But it's just knowing that I'm literally holding you, spooning you from behind, and that you might be peeing is,

it's just something I'm on a flag is concerning. I always feel like I'm really about to urinate. I'm about to pee my pants. I also know, because you've told me stories, that you have experienced stage fright, specifically in the last musical you did, Pal Joey, which you were brilliant in, and won a Tony nomination for.

Thank you. But you had a very difficult song called Zip, that's sort of like a whole bunch of non sequiturs, and it's a very hard song to memorize, and you told me about basically kind of almost having a panic attack on stage, and you's a very hard song to memorize. And you told me about like basically kind of almost having a panic attack on stage. And you hadn't done a musical since then.

How have you felt, because this is a complicated musical. Have you had any experiences on stage feeling like unsafe again or? No, since Pal Joey, I still get performance anxiety because I'm a human being and I have natural emotions. Yeah, I do too. Nerves. Yeah, natural nerves, but the stage fright

that I experienced during that show was next level. And new. And it was new. I mean, this is what's so interesting about the theater is that it's so easy to crush the magic, crush the illusion. It's so easy to just wipe it all away with one person standing up in the audience and going, fuck you, or something.

Or, this is stupid, or whatever. Or one actor getting ill on stage, and whatever. It's so easy to do, and it's so, and during Pal Joey was the only time I was ever really tempted. Really tempted. I mean, because I would come off stage and I would be hyperventilating,

and I'd have to get on my knees with a paper bag. And anyway, I don't know what point I'm trying to make other than that. I no longer have that. I think probably because, because I know I can, I don't feel like, maybe it was the fact that the train leaves the station

and there's nothing you can fucking do about it and it's all out of your control. And you don't have any fucking control or power at all. I think maybe that was part of it, the stage fight. I don't know, it's just crazy. It's a crazy thing, but somehow we survive. And we put it behind us and we go back out again. And we go back out and do it all over again

because we're sick. We're sick people. And we go back out and do it all over again because we're sick. We're sick people. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Martha and I get into the hilariously awkward texts that I sent her mom, and we unpack Martha's complicated feelings about the Goonies, childhood fame, and everything in between. Okay, be right back.

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and there are people I feel like that it's just, they're born with this in their bones, and I feel like you and I have that in common. Yeah. Both of your parents are actors, and you know, Shelly Plumpton, who I, you know the story about me accidentally calling your mother, right? No, what? Oh my gosh, you don't know this story?

What? For some reason, I don't know, I think it's because we got iPhones around the same time, when we did Midsummer Night's Dream. Right. And we shared, like, I think there was a bug or something. Oh, right, I remember this. And your mom's number, Shelly Plimpton's number,

which is under your phone, it's mom, obviously. Mom, right. Saved under your phone as mom, obviously, saved in my phone as mom. So I had this number and I remember I was having a really rough, really rough go at things and I never do this, I never really reach out for help from my parents, but I had texted my mom a really long text message about just being in a bad place

and not feeling good and being a little depressed and feeling insecure. And I really, like, emoted and let her know where I was at. I get the text back, ding. Hi, Jessie, hi, honey, this is Martha's mom. I was texting your mother this. I don't really know, I've met your mom a few times. I don't know your mom. Oh my God. And she was so sweet. She's like. I don't really know. I've met your mom a few times. I don't know your mom.

Oh my God. And she was so sweet. She's like, I hope you're okay. And then I was like, do I just copy and paste this on the right? And then I didn't even text my mom that. You didn't. I just sort of let it out.

It was heard. And a mom heard it. It wasn't my mom. How funny. Isn't that funny? Yeah. Well I'm glad she didn't go, who wasn't my mom. How funny. Isn't that funny? Yeah. Well I'm glad she didn't go, who the fuck is this? Yeah right, wrong number.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha. But I mean you were born into like, with Chobas in your bones. Yeah. I mean I knew you from being a fan of your work in early films, Parenthood and Goonies. Yeah. And I was just sort of, I think for me, I was just sort of taken by how,

I don't know, when you think of child actors and you think of kids who have gotten work at a very early age, you think of people like going off the rails. And certainly some of them do. But you seem so self-assured, so independently minded. And it felt very authentic to I kind of assumed you were, like looking at like just being a fan of yours from afar.

But it all really came into focus when I sort of, you know, met your mom and saw where you live and saw your childhood bedroom and like met your friends and just kind of experienced, got a small glimpse into who you were as a kid growing up in New York. I know you also went to a performing arts school, right? Right.

What was New York for you as a kid and as that being your playground and your backyard? It was great. It was great. I loved it. And I went to this weird school where every one of the kids had a job, it was called Professional Children's School,

like in the creative arts. Right. Or they were athletes. Oh, okay, so were you just in school with like all of the stars of like the 80s? I was in school with like Midori and you know the violinist Midori, she was in my school.

Wow. The Cosby kids were in my school. Interesting. You know, like Malcolm Jamal Warner and Ben, those kids. Pam Adlon went to my school. Pam Adlon, that's how you know Pam. Yeah, and then like athletes, you know, kids who are like on the circuit,

like working towards being pro tennis players. I mean, ballet dancers, we had the whole. Where was the school in New York? On 60th Street, right across the street from Fordham. Oh, okay. And it wasn't that big a school. It was like, at the most it had like 250 students in it. It's kind of amazing that you had this experience where,

you know, I mean, I'm taking, sending my kids to school and one of the reasons I want them to experience that is because I want them to be socialized and be around other kids. It's like, it's great that you got that. Yeah, I mean, it was all so weird. A lot of kids actually did do really well. Went on to college and continued their education.

I just sort of considered, like, when I wasn't on set or working, just being in school to me was like, well, what? I'm on vacation now. Why do I need to do homework? You know what I mean? And I didn't even get a diploma. I mean, I still had like a math and a gym credit missing. Walter.

You have got to chill. Chill. It's part of the podcast. It is what it is. It is what it is. But so they wanted me to come back for the next year. They wanted me to leave me behind, basically. Yeah.

And so I said, well, fuck it. Because I just want to have a diploma. Yeah. Um, the other day I was talking about riding. The trains were all fucked up here in London. Right. Which happens frequently. Which happens frequently, I guess.

I haven't taken a lot because in the area I'm staying in, there's not a good tube. Right. And so I've been taking Lime bikes, you know, the Uber bikes. Yeah. The electric bikes. I wish I could ride those. Well, and this is what you say, you say, I remember you said, I don't ride bikes. I had to learn for a film, which obviously was Goonies.

No. It wasn't? No, it was before that. Oh, I thought I remember. Didn't you all ride bikes in Goonies? No. It wasn't? No. It was before that. Oh, I thought I remember. Didn't you all ride bikes in Goonies? No, the boys did. Oh. The girls got a ride from Troy in his convertible.

I thought it was Goonies. Obviously you don't know this film very well. Honey, please. It's been a while since I've seen it. But it is one of my all time favorites. And I know, here we go. Here we go. Here we fucking go. Here we fucking go.

Here we fucking go. You're, and I know you accept it. And I know that you're like, I, you're part of cinema history with that film. It is iconic. It is a cult classic. And I'm sure you hear this from many people, because I know you still, you know, meet with fans.

Yeah. But the importance of that movie, and like, I just, I don't know, what is your relationship with it now? You know, it's what, 30? 40. 40 years. This year. You know, it's, sometimes it upsets me that it's going to be the first thing It's what, 30? 40. 40 years. This year.

Sometimes it upsets me that it's gonna be the first thing listed in my obituary. Ha ha ha ha ha. You know what I mean? I mean sometimes that can get me down a little bit. Because obviously when you're part of something like that at such a young age, you grow up and you've moved on and you're doing other things and you're all about doing other things. And those early experiences,

they don't stack up as much as an adult. So that's kind of how I feel about it, but I have to respect the place that it has in people's minds and hearts and childhoods. You can't, you gotta respect something like that. It's just a testament to what incredible filmmakers, Richard Donner and Steven Spielberg are, or in Richard's case was.

I mean, the film was not a success when it first came out. It was not a huge hit. It was like a big thing for a weekend and then it went away. But it happened to come out right around the same time as rental videos, as VHS, and the sort of widespread popularity of cable. Yeah, I might have single-handedly made it, chopped the charts.

So yeah, I mean that's- I just think you were 14 when you did it. I was 13. 13. I think I turned 14. Those years are so fuzzy to me. I can't really tell you too much about what happened to me when I was 13 and 14.

Does being a part of something like that bring in a moment of clarity in your past? Is it like a temple? Yeah, I mean, I guess it contextualizes my youth a little bit. In a strange way, it's like my body of work is a timeline for me, for my life and my development as a person. Which is a weird thing, I suppose. I mean, I remember certain things, but I don't remember things that most people remember about their lives.

You know what I mean? It's just kind of, it's funny. I'm not great at anecdotes, you know? About my life. I think my memoir would be really boring. You know what I mean? But I remember pretty much every episode of Raising Hope. Yeah.

Of course, we only did it for four years, but... Yeah. Still. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Martha opens up about going broke right before Raising Hope, and she tells me about her first love, River Phoenix. Okay, be right back. Hey everyone, it's Molly Sims from Lipstick on the Rim.

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I remember right before you got that is sort of like when we had become friends. And you know, you've also been really honest about this. You talk about this in interviews. But like, you know, you were right before Raising Hope, I mean, you were like, I need a job. I will do babysitting if I need to do it. I need to make money. And I think it's also something that people forget. They assume, okay, someone's been working.

You have been working since you were 12 years old. You have, the Carradine legacy is part of your history. You have, they just assume that you have, you know, tons of money saved up on you. But like, it's, these things go away. You don't always get paid as much as people think you get paid. And, you know, I, I'm, you know, when we met, we were doing Shakespeare in the Park, which is a non-profit,

and we were making a dollar. Yeah. And I had been working pretty steadily in the theater for which is a non-profit, and we were making a dollar. Yeah. And you were really- And I had been working pretty steadily in the theater for 10 years. Yeah. Making a dollar. Yeah.

And working on Broadway for non-profit theaters. Yes. Also making a dollar. Yeah. While the theaters were charging- While you're being nominated for Tony Awards. Yeah, I was nominated three times in a row. Yeah.

And literally the next day, after the Tonys, and I had to like pay a stylist and find a dress. And you know, being nominated is expensive. Yeah. It costs a lot of money to get nominated. And I'm not just saying to pay for the campaign. So the next day, after the third time in a row that I lost, which is whatever,

neither here nor there, but I was like, really people? But anyway, my accountant and I talked, he was like, you have $300. You need to, something needs to happen. And I remember putting on Facebook, I'll babysit, I'll do anything. And I have, at the time I was friends with this woman. And she, she, she almost responded too quickly and too gleefully.

I'd love to hire you. If you could be in Brooklyn at 6 a.m. on Thursday morning, I was like, there's something off about this. Sounds good. See you there. Did you? I did. You did. And literally that week, I found out that I had got raising home.

I didn't realize that it had gone right up to the edge for you. Yeah. And that show was... Changed my life completely. It changed your life, but also it was so great. You were nominated for an Emmy for it. I remember one of my favorite Emmy awards, we were nominated the same year.

That's right, that's right. And one of the most iconic things ever happened. Yeah. And you can watch it on YouTube. Sofia Vergara was actually presenting best supporting actress in a comedy. With Rob Lowe. No, best actress in a comedy.

Yes, best actress in a comedy. With Rob Lowe. And they start announcing the nominees. And it was like Amy Poehler for Parks and Recreation. And everyone claps, you know, the camera goes to Amy Poehler. And then Amy stands up and walks up on stage and we're like, oh my God, she's doing a bit

like she thought she won or something. It's like, this is weird, but it was also funny because it's Amy Poehler, you felt safe. Tina Fey for 30 Rock. Tina Fey stands up, goes up on stage. It continues on with Martha Plimpton for Raising Hope, Melissa McCarthy for Mike and Molly, Edith Alka for Nurse Jackie,

Laura Linney for The C Word. Right. So they're all standing up there. Right. Everyone's losing their minds because, I don't know, it sort of felt to me like it was such a celebration of these incredible people who had achieved so much just by being nominated.

They always say it's an honor to be nominated and that sort of feels like a line. But in that moment, I was like, it's a fucking honor. You're standing up with all these people who turn in these incredible performances. And then Melissa was named best actress, which I think was maybe a surprise. I don't know if people were like- It was a total surprise. And the camera zoomed in Miss America style on her and she was given a sash. And a tiara.

And a tiara. And a giant bouquet of roses just like in a pageant. In a pageant. And it was just such, and you all were up there together celebrating her and hugging her. It was no like flash to see like someone's disappointment. It was such a celebration. Okay, so these are my questions about this moment.

Talk to me about what happened, how that was organized beforehand, and talk about how that felt to be a part of that iconic moment of television. So that came about when I went to a dinner with Amy Poehler and Tina Fey and Sarah Thayer. Uh-huh. And I think maybe it was totally Amy's idea.

I don't remember, but it came out of a conversation. Uh-huh. Like you were saying, and, you know, the camera's on you, and it's a horse race. It's a... it's like a pageant, and, you know. And, oh, I wonder if they would do that. And who's presenting? And, oh, I bet you you Sophia and Rob would love to do

that and we should see if the emmys will if the producers will provide the roses and a tiara and you know and that's how it came about and we just started texting each other and I remember Edie was too nervous to go first even though she's first alphabetically uh-huh but she was too nervous she was like I'm too nervous to go first, even though she's first alphabetically. Uh-huh. But she was too nervous. She was like, I'm too nervous to be the first one. I don't want to be the first one doing this. So Amy said, well, I'll do it.

Of course she was. Yeah. So then so, and it was perfect because she set the tone perfectly. And you also feel safe with her doing it. It might have been weird if Edie Thalker got up and stood there. Yeah, exactly.

And people would have been like, what are, yeah, they wouldn't have understood. But it was perfect that Amy went up first because she's so fucking funny and smart and brilliant and amazing. But yeah, it was pretty exciting. And it's sort of become one of those amazing, iconic Emmys moments that's like replayed

like every year during the Emmy someone else posts that you know and it's great. I love that I mean being in that room it felt so I mean the whole audience stood yeah it was great we were so grateful that someone's doing something unique and fun but also it just felt like a breath of fresh air and it felt like exactly what we all want to be feeling but no one it felt like okay what we all want to be feeling but no one, it felt like okay you actually put up what we are feeling in our hearts, like you presented it to us and it gave us the opportunity to cheer for you and it just felt very unifying.

It was really fun to be a part of it. At first glance it might be like, well, we're making fun of the whole horse race or the whole pageant of it, but it came off sort of wholesome and supportive and really great, because we are in this weird business, like we are in a little bit of a club and a little bit of a community, and people would like to have us separated

or sorted out in certain ways. And we're supposed to feel sort of weird about that, but I think we should feel good about it. I think we should feel like we are kind of in a community. We are kind of the brothers and sisters in this bizarro, crazy world where sometimes it's really brilliant and fun and incredible and we're so fucking lucky.

Yeah. Speaking of like seeing people out, I remember one of the last times I came to London, we met up for coffee and Kate Winslet was sitting at the bar and you're like, oh, there's Kate Winslet. And I was like, oh, I'm such a fan of hers. And like, we both like didn't say anything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like in a moment like that, maybe it would have been nice for us to say like, oh, I'm such a fan of hers. And we both didn't say anything. But in a moment like that, maybe it would have been nice

for us to say, hey, we love your work. And then you went on to work with her just recently. In regime. In regime, yeah. And you've done so much, so just to back up a little bit, you live out here in London most of the time. Really, about half the year? I think, yeah, about that.

Now, I know you've always loved London, but I always felt you to be like a tried and true New Yorker. What was sort of the impetus for you to move out here? Well, I was doing this play. I had done a play here before, and I just loved being here. I loved the camaraderie of the actors here, you know, the pub life and hanging out after the show and meeting other actors and I just really loved it.

And so when I came back, I was doing sweat at the Donmar and I made great, great friends, particularly women friends, I mean, who've been in my life ever since. And then we moved from the Donmar to the West End for a limited run. It was a big hit, the show, and I just thought, I just want to live here. I prefer this way of living. I prefer this way of working. I prefer this atmosphere.

I prefer the attitude. I prefer the attitude, I prefer the work ethic. And I, you know, I had done, you know, another show on Broadway prior to Sweat, and it wasn't a great experience for me. I mean, it was great with working with the actors and everything, but I just found it to be alienating and to be about something else and I wanted to be where you could do a play just because you like the play, not because you wanted to win a Tony or be famous or sell out tickets or have famous people

see you backstage, you know what I mean? Because you like the play and you like the people you're working with. Thank you so much. We've also got Artude as the extra here. You know what I mean? Because you like the play and you like the people you're working with. Yeah. Thank you so much. We've also got our two desserts down here. Holy hell. All right. Oh, they've got an Earl Grey soft serve.

What's the other one? Costardos. What's that? A crostato is a shot of espresso mixed with vanilla custard. Oh. Made of like a milk nefcato. It's like our signature dessert. That's what I want.

Yeah, I want that too. Yeah, two cassatos? Yeah, please, thank you. That's gonna be perfect. I mean, I have to say, I mean, I've never worked here. I've come to London many times. This is my first time working here, first time being here.

I will have been here before. How are you finding it? I love it, I do love it. And I can totally say, I've told Justin several times as we're walking down really charming streets. He's like, what about that house? Do you want to live in that one? Yeah, you know? Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, my favorite thing to do is ride the tube and look at real estate porn. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You too, Chris. Oh, look at that. Thank you. Cheers, Jazzy. Cheers.

This is better than wine. Well, that is incredible. Oh, Jazzy. Cheers. This is better than wine. Well, that is incredible. Oh, that is so good. Oh, my gosh. Now that I know this exists, I am going to seriously come up here and get a Costardo to go every day. Yeah, it's great. Oh, it's so good.

I also find that after you moved, after you moved out here, there was a, I don't want to say tonal shift, but there was a difference in the type of things you were being cast in that was really exciting. Yeah. Generation, and then obviously Regime. Yeah, Regime. With Kate Winslet, and then Prime Target.

And then Task, which is coming out in September, which is, I actually, I saw a little bit of it the other day when I was doing ADR and it looks so good. What is Task? Task is a show by Brad Inglesby, actually, who did Mayor of Easttown with Kate. Oh, wow. So this is his second show.

And it also takes place in, you know, in Philly, sort of suburbs of Philly, with Mark Ruffalo. Love him. Who's just awesome. Just a great guy, awesome actor, amazing person. But yeah, and I play like his boss at the FBI, it's pretty hilarious.

But it looks really good. I'm really excited about it. Yeah. But yeah, I don't know why I just put it in my shell. But have you, no, that's why you're gonna, why would you do a podcast if you're not plugging something? Oh, it's gonna be on HBO. HBO.

Yeah, you're doing all this prestige television now. When did that happen? Well, it's funny because I think in London, first of all, they're not afraid of women, middle-aged women, older women, mature women. They're not afraid of them here. And they get to work here in all kinds of things, on TV, in movies, in plays. You know what I mean? Like older women who look like older women, you know, who have like menopause bellies

and you know, wrinkles on their face, get to actually, you know, they respect them here. Anyway, what was I talking about? No, I was asking you about- Oh yeah, the prestige TV stuff. So when I came to London, I did start, like I got to work on the Man Who Fell to Earth show.

I did a little tiny role on that. And it was like, people were like, happy to have me. And I was like, well, I'm really happy to be had. This is really great. And they were like, no, but we're really, thank you so much for being a part of this. Thank you so much. It was just a difference in perception

and the level of just sort of, just regard for my work that I did not realize was existed. And because Hollywood just doesn't operate the same way for women. It just doesn't unless you're a massive, beautiful movie star who's like winning Oscars for being beautiful and massive.

Yeah. You're interchangeable. And here, people aren't interchangeable in the same way. Does that make any sense? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it does. Okay, can I ask a little bit about River Phoenix? Yeah, it does. Okay, can I ask a little bit about River Phoenix? Yeah, mm-hmm. So, I should have asked this before and then I forgot

when we were talking about just your youth. But you were very good friends with River Phoenix. You dated him for a little while. You did two incredible films with him. I know that you guys remained friends after you broke up. But just, I mean, in that moment of being so young, and you both were like this it couple, I mean, from what I remember,

what did it feel like? Because it's one thing to be an actor working at that time, and it's another thing to be exposed as a person in a relationship, and all the stuff that's private is suddenly public. At that age, it feels very, I don't know, it's exposing. Well, River was certainly more famous than I ever was. I mean, he got an Oscar nomination, obviously. But I think we were both really good at knowing that we

didn't really want that attention anyway. And so we really weren't exposed really that much in that way. And neither of us was terribly comfortable with that sort of thing. And it was before we were even understood really what that meant. I think it got harder as we got older

and River became more famous. It got harder for him, I think. Well, I know it was harder for him. And he was not as equipped, I think, he was not as equipped, I think, as maybe some other people might be to handle that stuff, because he was a very, at heart, very innocent and like a driven by love human being. So the contradictions of Hollywood and show business

were much more difficult for him. And it was easier for me because I grew up in New York and I was already a cynic by the time I was 13. You know, at 12 years old when I graduated from middle school, my teacher wrote in my yearbook, you know, congratulations, try not to be too cynical. When I was 12. You know what I mean?

So I was more equipped, I think, even though I didn't need to be. And so, that was tough. And you know, when we did break up, eventually we were together for about four years. And then when we did break up, we did remain friends. And we were each other's first love. That relationship never really goes away.

You can't ever let something like that go. It's just too important and too altering. I mean, it's made you who you are, especially in those really formative years. I mean, it's a huge part of who I am. So yeah, and of course we stayed friends. But I think fame was really hard on River. I think he really just didn't know what to do

with all of that. And he wanted to do good, but it was really, it's just the contradictions of it were too difficult. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it seems like it was a very important friendship to both of you. You know, if you are uncomfortable with that, to have someone who understands,

even if you don't understand exactly what he's going through to be a part of that world and be a safe space, you know, it seems like he was really lucky to have you. Well, I think he was lucky to have me and his family, his brothers and sisters. I think, you know, his personality or his affliction, his illness was incredibly difficult for him to manage on his own, and he never really got the help that I think

he would have done amazingly well with if he had gotten that help. I think he would have been an incredible advocate for sobriety and for people struggling with addiction. And unfortunately, it just, it got him before he had a chance to do that. But, but yeah, I mean, I miss him every single day. Every single day.

It's really lovely to hear you talk about him. I'm sorry, I mean, you're crying. No, no, no, it's okay. Well, we have a rehearsal to get down. We have warm up soon. We have warm up soon. Walter. I'm gonna meditate. You're gonna meditate.

Walter is going to sleep. Walter's gonna sleep. We'll probably eat a little something. We'll probably eat a little something. Look at his cute little face. You go ahead and head down. I'm gonna step here, cause dinner's on me. I'm gonna pay the bill. Aw, th me. I'm going to pay the bill.

Oh, thanks. Oh yeah, that's the name of the podcast. That's the name of the podcast. Oh my god. Thanks for doing this. This episode of Dinner's on Me was recorded at Forza Wine at the National Theatre in London's South Bank. Next week on Dinners on Me, you know him from True Blood, Big Little Lies, and more recently

as the star of the new Apple Plus show, Murderbot, it's Alexander Skarsgård. He'll get into teaming up with a real-life gay biker gang for an upcoming film, chemistry with Nicole Kidman, and what it's like to play an awkward, emotionally complex robot. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners on Me Plus. As a subscriber, not only do you get access

to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad free. Just click try free at the top of the Dinners on Me show page on Apple Podcasts to search your free trial today. Dinners on Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch.

Our show runner is Joanna Clay. Our producer in the UK is Grace Laker. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcalf. Sam Baer engineered this episode. Hans-Dale Sheeck composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tamika Balanz-Klasny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson.

Join me next week.