Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - MATT BOMER — on channeling Rose Nylund and getting excused from ‘White Collar’

Episode Date: April 8, 2025

'Mid-Century Modern’ star Matt Bomer joins the show. Over a sizzling fish and crab fried rice, Matt told me about working with legends Nathan Lane and Linda Lavin (rest in peace) on the new Hulu series ‘Mid-Century Modern,’ what it’s like to be nearly an empty nester and we share strong feelings about a certain sandal. This episode was recorded at Merois at the Pendry Hotel in West Hollywood, CA. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

With the Fizz loyalty program, you get rewarded just for having a mobile plan. You know, for texting and stuff. And if you're not getting rewards like extra data and dollars off with your mobile plan, you're not with Fizz. Switch today. Conditions apply. Details at fizz.ca. Okay, flights on air Canada. How about Prague? Ooh, Paris. Those gardens. Gardens. Amsterdam. Tulip Festival.

I see your festival and raise you a carnival in Venice. Or Bermuda has carnival. Ooh, colorful. You want colorful. Thailand. Lantern Festival. Boom. Book it. Um, how did we get to Thailand from Prague? Oh, right. Prague.

Oh, boy. Choose from a world of destinations, if you can. Air Canada. Nice travels. destinations, if you can. Air Canada, nice travels. Hi, it's Jesse. Today on the show, you know him from his six seasons on the USA series, White Collar, and from his new sitcom, Mid-Century Modern, it's Matt Bomer.

And then I flew back on the overnight, I sat next to Joan Rivers, God bless her soul, who was amazing, and really knew how to do the overnight flight. She passed out as we were ascending and woke up as we were descending. I was like, you got this down. She has it down.

This is Dinners on Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Friendships with deep history are truly so special. There's something about someone knowing you when you were in your 20s, knowing your struggles, your bad style, your terrible haircuts. Friends with that intel, that perspective are so special.

They're also scary because they probably have a lot of material to blackmail you with. Now, Matt Bomer is one of those friends for me. Not that I'm afraid he's going to blackmail me. At least I hope not. I met Matt in New York over 25 years ago through a mutual friend at the East Village restaurant where he was waiting tables.

Now funny enough, it was his last shift before he was about to start work on his first big acting job. He was starting the very next day on All My Children. I remember being so excited for him. Someone who was my age, someone I knew, was getting a big break on television. And I don't know, maybe one day that could happen for me.

Over the years, Matt and I stayed close and I watched his career soar. White Collar, Traveler, Magic Mike, The Normal Heart, which earned him a Golden Globe, and most recently, Fellow Travelers, where he delivered a stunning performance that earned him an Emmy and Golden Globe, and most recently, Fellow Travelers, where he delivered a stunning performance that earned him an Emmy and Golden Globe nomination. But even more inspiring than his career

has been watching his family grow and seeing him become such a passionate advocate for LGBTQ plus rights and family equality. Recently, I had the chance to work with Matt for the very first time actually, guest starring on his new Hulu comedy, Mid-Century Modern. He stars alongside Nathan Lane,

who's also been on this podcast, Nathan Lee Graham, and the late, great Linda Lavin. Linda sadly passed away just weeks after we filmed together, which makes the experience even more meaningful in hindsight. It was so special to reconnect with Matt, reminiscing about our history,

talking about his family, remembering Linda, and of course, celebrating his fantastic new show. And let me tell you, in mid-century modern, Matt Bomer is absolutely hilarious. I can't wait for you to see it. Hi. Hi. Hi.

Good to see it. I brought Matt Bomer to Merrois in West Hollywood. It's perched on top of the Pendry Hotel on the Sunset Strip, which means we get sweeping views of the city while pretending you're not completely transfixed by the menu. Designed by chef Wolfgang Puck, the menu is a blend of Asian, French, and Californian influences. It features many of the chefs' sought-after dishes such as his Peking duck and chinois salad.

If it weren't for the sky-high views of Los Angeles, the style and vibe of this space reminds me a lot of Palm Springs with the greenery, soft pastels, and golden accents, which is fitting because that's the setting of Matt's new show, Mid-Century Modern. Okay, let's get to the conversation. I mean, I've known you for- Matt. It's, I don't even,

should we even say how long we've known each other? Well, I, okay. We can, and it's been, it's over, it was before 2000. It's over 25 years. Yeah, it was 2000. It was right before you did All My Children. I'm a little older than you, but we're about the same age.

But I remember you were like the first friend who got a soap opera. And we were like, no fucking way. I used to, like, it was really exciting. Like he is- Oh my gosh. He's going places. And I do remember like after you won the Golden Globe for Normal Heart, I think either I called you

or I sent a text message. It's like, I just, I'm so proud of you. I just, you know, I get very emotional when I see people whose whole career I've seen unfold in front of my eyes. And I really, I mean, I saw you the day before you started your first big job. And it was your last day as a waiter. And I just, I was so moved watching you,

stand on stage in front of all your peers and like accept a massive award like that for an incredible performance. I felt the same about you. Cause all I ever wanted to do was theater at the time. And I remember coming to see all of your shows on Broadway. And I remember you telling me about the pilot of Modern Family.

Oh, really? You're like, I think I'm gonna get this job. And it's a really great script. And then you told me about the pilot of that. And then I remember seeing it being like, oh my gosh, this is one of the best things I've ever seen in my life. I remember the first day we showed up on the pilot of Mid-Century Modern,

the parking spot I had was right next to a big truck that had a modern family advertisement on it. But it also talked about how many people it had employed in Los Angeles, which I thought was what a cool thing to advertise. Yeah, they were doing that for a while. Like a lot of the props trucks would have a poster of the cast and then how many people they employed in LA.

I actually just today got an approval for a little promo for Mid-Century Modern. Oh, great. Yeah, advertising on the guest stars, which I was lucky enough to do. Nice. Oh, you were phenomenal. I had so much fun that week.

What was your character's name again? We didn't have scenes together. Wait, what was his name? We had no scenes together. His name is Tevin. Tevin. Tevin. Oh my gosh.

I mean, I am such fans of the creators of the show. I loved Will and Grace. And then to have you and Nathan Lane and Nathan Lee Graham and Linda Lavin, Oh my gosh. Rest in peace. We're gonna talk about her. To have you all on set and then Vanessa Bayer is one of the other guest stars.

It was just a dream come true. It was an incredible week and Matt, I know you're funny, but like, I can't wait for like America to see how funny you really are in this role specifically. You're so fantastic. Oh my gosh. That's very kind of you to say. I honestly feel like there was an Icons Only party happening

and they were like, but we'll let Matt just come hang out. Oh no! Be a fly on the wall and I was just like grabbing onto Nathan Lane and Nathan Lee and Linda's coattails and going, okay, you know, trying to figure it out. No, you're absolutely incredible. And I mean, I love, thank you so much. Are we ordering food or are things just appearing?

I think things are just appearing today. Ooh. I like that. I like that when things just appear. We're an easy audience. We are such an easy audience. But the concept of the show is so great. I mean, I guess like the top line would be like, it's basically a gay golden girls and it's-

It's a spiritual sister, cousin to golden girls. It's about found family, which I think that show had a lot to say. And within a lot of humor and wit, I think it tries to address certain social issues and things like that. And so I think it has a little bit of Norman Lear in there too.

And, but yeah, it's, I can see why folks would draw that comparison. I would say some of the archetypes are similar. Some are maybe a little bit different. Yeah, you definitely got a lot of Rose in you. Got a lot of Rose in me. I mean, who doesn't want to have a little- A little Woody.

Uh-huh. You know, a little bit of Phoebe maybe in there too. Uh-huh. Yeah, all these icons who I absolutely adore. I mean, who doesn't want to have a little Buddy White in them? You're a dog. But I mean, what I was so impressed with is, you know, having been a fan of Will and Grace,

and you know, this is a show that's on a streamer, so there's so much more they can do with just themes, but also language, and there's cussing, and it gets very blue, and some of the jokes are, they really go right up to the line. Oh my gosh, well, we would do alternative takes that really just Carl Lewis'd right over that.

Yeah, I love that. It's hard for me to really be shocked enough to be like, should we do that? Cause I'm pretty much game for anything. But there were a couple of times I was like, okay, let's see what happens. But Jimmy Burroughs, Max Muchnick, David Cohan, I mean, they're just absolute legends.

And so they could ask me to just walk out and do a cartwheel and I wouldn't ask a question about it. I would just do it. No, this is the second thing I got to do with Jimmy Burroughs and I've always felt like I'm in good hands with him. And it was so great to be reunited with him after class. What did you do? He did all the class.

Oh, he did. Yeah, so, you know, I worked with him almost 20 years ago. Oh, wow. And it was such a lovely thing to come back together with him and get to work with him. I never thought I'd get to work with him again. I shadowed him on that. That was such a great show. It was a good show.

Yes. Yeah. But I do wanna like talk about, first of all, working with Nathan Lane, which we both have in common. I've talked about this at Nausium. And I think Nathan, he really does get sick of hearing me say how much of a hero he is of mine, but I always dreamed of working with him,

and when I found out he was being cast as Pepper in Modern Family, I lost my mind. And the first day I got to work with him, I just, I glommed onto him, and I was like, I need him to know that I'm cool, and I'm gonna be a lifer with him. And like, we have so much in common. Like I was just squirreling about that theater.

Like, I don't know. I felt like it was my turn to step up and like be Nathan's best friend. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just adore him so much. I love him profoundly to say that he is an idol is an understatement. I feel like he was such a huge part of my awakening

as a human being. What did you know him from? So the first time I encountered him, I feel like a big part of my development as a person was in the drama club closet at my high school, which says a lot on a metaphorical level and a real level. But I would just sit in there and honestly, sometimes I would read plays, sometimes I would just sit in there and honestly, sometimes I would read plays, sometimes I would just leaf through them,

but I remember reading Lisbon Traviata and falling in love with it when I was like 14 or 15 and seeing him on the cover of it with the blanket over his head and then I would do a scene from that. Took me a couple years before I started getting into musicals before I got into forum and guys and dolls and all that,

but obviously that was a huge moment too. So by the time Birdcage came around, I was like firmly in the camp of Nathan Lee. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And now getting to work with him, I mean, he's just, he's, as you know, such a wonderful, generous person. He was always there for me. He just has a huge heart

and he's so singular as a performer. There's no one else who can do what he does the way he does it. He's completely singular and I don't know that it will ever be replicated. You know, he's just, I hope not. Welcome, welcome to Mirawai. My name is Danny.

Hi, Danny. I have a few items here that, some of our favorites at the restaurant, some of my personal favorites as well. Over here we have coffee glazed ribs. Whoa. Pickled Fresnos and fried curry leaves, followed by one of our staples,

which is a chinois chicken salad, followed by our chicken dumplings with Dan Dan sauce. Wow. And we have our lobster spring rolls. Just put this in your lap, Matt. No promises. Oh my god. You cannot be mad if we don't lobster spring rolls. Just put this in your lap, Matt. There's no room. No promises. Oh my god. Wow.

You cannot be mad if we don't finish all this. It looks amazing. What if we just finish all this? I'll let you impress this. I mean, my inner Texan might finish it all. Wow. This is so much food. Thank you.

It looks incredible. Thank you. Please, have wonderful food. Thank you so much. Now when did White Collar happen? White Collar, I got the pilot in 2008 and filmed the pilot in 2008. And then the series went 2009.

That was the same time as Modern Family then. Cause that was, yeah. Yeah. I think we were 2009. 2000 and then we did six seasons. I mean, that was a moment when I realized, oh Matt's on like another level now. Like I felt like your career just took like a turn

and you were being considered for like really cool film roles. Like if there was like a Superman part, that would like, if there were every casting, you're always on those lists. Like, you know, like the lists that I would never be on. Oh, I was honestly just so happy to be working and to have a job where I thought,

oh, this is gonna come back for another season maybe. And it was, we got to film in New York city, which was such a dream come true to me. And I was getting to film on all these places that I'd gotten to see from an outsider, but I'd never been in a Upper East Side penthouse before or anything like that and residential forest hills. So it was just, and everyone in the cast,

we just bonded so beautifully. And it was the most easy, joyful work environment I've ever had. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I always find it wild when I'm shooting in New York, having struggled there for so long. I remember I was shooting an episode of Elizabeth and I was shooting right outside of like a coffee shop

I used to work at. And it was, I felt like a very full circle moment. Like I definitely don't take those moments in my life for granted. Like I feel like, okay, I'm being placed here for a very specific reason. So I acknowledge how far I've come and how lucky I am too. I-

We are so extraordinarily lucky. We're so lucky. I mean, you're one of the most talented people I know, so you're obviously prepared for when that opportunity presented itself, but just for us to even get the opportunity, we've been so lucky. Yeah, yeah, I agree.

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Matt tells me about improvising in sex scenes for fellow travelers and losing his mid-century modern co-star, the great Linda Lavin. Okay, be right back. I don't know about you, but when I was a kid, one of my favorite errands was going to the deli counter with my parents. I'd press my nose against the glass, watching as they sliced the perfect cut of turkey or

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First of all, it's fantastic, and I'm like four episodes in now, but you two are so good together. You're so incredible. Also, you know, if I'm blushing a little bit as I'm sitting here across the table from you, it's because I've seen a lot of you in the past week. You've seen a lot.

Yeah. Doing a lot of things. Doing a lot of things. A lot of things to a lot of people. To a lot of people. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It was, I'm so grateful we were able to get that show made.

Yeah. I mean, I don't know that it would happen today. I was just, I was gonna ask if you thought it would. I don't think it would. We got so lucky. First of all, I got so lucky because I read it in two days and called them and said, oh, we have to do this.

But the cynic in me was going, I'll help you guys pitch this or produce however I can, but there's no way this is gonna sell. Why did you think it wouldn't? I just wasn't sure if the marketplace as a business would put their money where their mouth was for a queer period piece that took place in multiple decades.

And I was wrong. I was overly cynical. I'm just so grateful because obviously it couched in a lot of those, the interplay between the characters, some of which was sexual, but also there was a ton of political intrigue and had so much to say about our country

and our history as people. And speaking about the lavender scare, which is such a specific point in our history. And, but also hearing a lot of those, that same rhetoric that was being spoken to the LGBTQ community then being echoed today, it just felt so relevant in a way that was terrifying. It was terrifying.

Obviously I would never hope for it to be relevant in that way, but it has been shocking and even more so recently. I've never had to do super intimate scenes on screen before. I've done some stuff on stage, but walk me through how much preparation dialogue there was before. Because these scenes, they're highly choreographed, highly physical, very sexual, also very intimate in many, many ways. But I mean, it felt very lived in, in a way that I think sometimes when you're watching people be intimate on screen, it's hard to achieve.

Yeah. Was there an intimacy coordinator? Did you guys talk through all these? There was an intimacy coordinator. She was great. I think she did a great job of, I think why they're so vital and important is because, as someone who's had to do those kinds of scenes

starting from when I was on that soap opera in 2000, when you didn't have an intermediary, it was sometimes hard to communicate any boundaries you might have to other people. But then Johnny and I really kind of knew what each other's boundaries were. And I think we were always trying to think about what was the story we're trying to tell

underneath the intimacy? Like how were we different after the scene than before? So what was kind of the arc of that scene supposed to be? But we would also improvise within the intimacy while staying inside the boundaries of what felt safe. And I think that permission allowed it to live in a way that could have felt stilted or overly choreographed if we hadn't had that freedom with each other.

I'm gonna ask you about one moment and you're gonna tell me if it was improvised. You licked his armpit. That was improvised. I knew it. Yeah. Also when I licked my hand after that moment. After that moment.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, I guarantee you the, there was no conversation about,

and then you lick his armpit, but it was so, but that's what I'm talking about. It was so real and it was so, I don't know, crackled, it was very, I mean, listen, I enjoy the series, it's great. Oh, thanks. And it's brave and I've never seen anything like it.

It was really fun to see you play that type of guy too, especially having just done Mid-Century Modern with you. Yeah, it's a polar opposite. Oh my God, that's what they call versatility. Yeah, it's a polar opposite. Oh my God. That's what they call versatility. Yeah. Hawk wasn't versed, but yeah.

Yeah, yeah. No, he was not. No, he was not. Well, hold on, hold on until episode eight and then call me. Okay, okay, okay. Yeah. When I was doing Take Me Out, Scott Ellis brought Linda Laban back after she saw the performance.

And she was so kind to me. It was the first time I'd ever met her. And he's like, I'm taking her to Orzo. And I was like, okay, well, I gotta go do something. And I was like, you know what? I'm gonna take this opportunity. I'm gonna go meet them at Orzo. Like, I don't know if I'll ever get to have this moment

with this woman who I admire so much. And I sat with Scott and Linda Lavin and it was the first time I actually got time with her. And I was like, oh my God, this woman is incredible. It was magical. Now fast forward to when I was asked to do a guest bottom at Century Modern and just knowing that I was gonna be around all of you,

you, Nathan and Nathan Lee Graham are all dear friends of mine. But then to get to work with, you, Nathan, and Nathan Lee Graham are all dear friends of mine. But then to get to work with, even if briefly, Linda Lavin, who I just adored so much, was such a huge treat. And I can't tell you how meaningful and impactful that week was. Just not only seeing you all thrive

in this incredible new show, but also just being around her. I remember after, it was Sarah Paulson's birthday was the night before. And I came in to work after that. I had been at Sarah's birthday and you asked me if I had been there. And I said, oh yeah, I went.

And you're like, yeah, I just, I was nervous about my voice. You know, there's like COVID's kind of going around. So I decided, you know, I didn't want to go and just, you know, I wanted to be good. I wanted to be good. I was like, well, you know who was there? Linda Lavin. And you just started laughing. to be good, I wanted to be good. I was like, well, you know who was there? Linda Lavin.

And you just started laughing. You're like, of course she was. And I was like, and she shut it down. Of course. By the way. Of course. Yeah. I never even knew Linda's age because she was the most vital,

cognitively present member of our cast. Yeah. Which obviously made it really shocking and really upsetting when she passed. She was such a shining light, as you saw, on that set. And she carried with her such an inherent easy leadership. I was a huge fan going in, but she was just such an effortless,

loving leader on the set. She just was so kind to me and generous to me. And I got to say everything I had wanted to say to her. And we both ended it by saying, I love you. I didn't know that that was gonna be the last conversation we had. I was so grateful that that was it. Yeah, yeah.

I spoke to Nathan a little bit about this just personally, but I checked in on him a little bit after she passed. And, you know, just knowing that he had that responsibility to sort of send her off, you know, because she obviously, whatever happened to her had to happen off stage because she had already at that point passed away. I just, I mean, I can't imagine how difficult

those scenes must've been to shoot. Yeah, I wouldn't wish it on anybody. I'm so grateful that we were able to honor her and pay tribute to her. I can't think of another time in a career or another medium where you'd ever have to be processing something and performing it at the same time, because we shut down for one week for the writers

to collect themselves. And then we had to go right into it. It's times like that that you really are grateful that you're working with these incredible veteran director actors who know how to kind of gently steer the ship in a situation like that. And I remember obviously rehearsing that all week. I think we were all kind of, you know,

mourning, but also protecting ourselves. And then I remember looking to Nathan Lane and Nathan Lee and something was like roiling in Nathan Lane. I mean, I could tell something was coming through him. And so I think we all just tried to kind of get out of our own way and pay tribute to her character and her hopefully at the same time. First of all, I wanna hear how you liked this part

of the process, but in those multi-camera sitcoms of you're doing it in front of a live audience and if something's not working, the writers will huddle and come up with a whole new, sometimes whole new scene on occasion, but at least, you know, like new monologues and paragraphs, and it'll come to you, and they don't hand you pages of written changes.

They tell them to you, and you repeat them back, and then they say, okay, let's roll it, and you just do it. And they had written me a chunk of dialogue that was like, I don't know how I'm gonna remember all this. And you wanna get it right because the audience is there and they don't wanna see you struggle. They're hearing it for the first time.

They're hearing it for the first time. And you know, it's fun to watch actors mess up once or twice, but if it starts to become more than that, they start to get nervous for you. And you feel that and you start sweating and then you start getting in your head. So I was like, don't go down the rabbit hole before, you know, you can at least get it out of your mouth one time.

Yeah. And I was having a hard time and it was starting to get to that point where I was like, I'm about to go into my head. And Linda Lavin, who was in the scene with me, just looked at me and she just said, nobody is you. Nobody's you. And it was after she said that,

that I was able to get it. Wow. You know, she just gave me so much confidence. She's like, you got this. Nobody's you. You're here. You're you. Yeah.

And yeah. I love that. Yeah. God. That's, yeah. That's like leading with heart, right? Like, yeah. Cause obviously you know,

everyone's gonna look to you in certain times. And it was in those times when we all did, it always came from love, you know? Yeah. And she's right. Yeah. Nobody is you. I'm so happy that you've been doing more theater recently.

You know, the Boys in the Band was such, I was doing a play off Broadway at that time. And I was like, I think I'm the only out gay actor who's not in Boys in the Band. You know, I had so many good friends in that cast. But there was something so powerful about it, being this cast of successful gay out actors coming together and being a part of this ensemble.

First of all, I felt like, how do we get so lucky as to see this play revived with this cast, with this director, and then to have all of you come together and do it for Netflix. It was just, I was like, how are we so lucky? I love both of the experiences. And when will you ever get to say that you did a play and then did a film

with the exact same cast and the same director. It just doesn't happen. So I'm so grateful for that, but the theater experience for me was just the dreamiest thing I ever could have hoped for. And like you mentioned, I didn't know what to expect from an audience. And the fact that the show sold out and extended.

The one that Tony Award for best revival. And won the Tony was just like, I couldn't have asked for anything more. It's partially why I've been, cause I'm dying to get back to theater in New York. No, but having been able to do a normal heart, the TV movie of normal heart, and then to do Boys in the Band,

do these sort of two iconic temples of queer theater, and then it'd be able to tell those same stories on television, must have, I can only imagine, must have felt so lucky and so meaningful and impactful. I mean, both of those plays, if you're looking at like the gay canon of like plays, those are the two, that means America. Yeah.

You know, those are like the three I think about is being the most iconic. It all goes back to that drama room closet. Yeah. And that's where I discovered Larry Kramer too. And folks had like hinted me in that direction and things. It wasn't like I was just like individually picking out all these masterful plays,

but I think he was a huge part of my awakening as a person and really woke me up to things that were going on in the world that nobody around me was talking about in suburban Texas and educated me in a way that I feel like enabled me to kind of enter the world of gay life as a gay man in a way that where I could have some sense of responsibility and kind of at least know what was going on in the world around me that I wouldn't have otherwise.

We have something in common that we're both dads and I just, I still don't believe that your kids are as old as they are. And you're literally sending everyone off to college and you're almost an empty nester. Yeah. And I'm at the very beginning with a four and a half and a two and a half year old.

I just know how complicated it was, you know, to become a father so soon after marriage equality passed. Yeah. You know, and I think about you and Simon who have been together for, is it like almost 25? Almost 18 years. Okay, okay. You've been married for?

Since 2011. 2011. We missed that first little window in California. It's so funny though, because so many people say to me, oh, you've only been married since 2011. Right. That's when we could do it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We had been domestic partners, I think for two years before that. Right. Yeah. And you met like- We met through Leigh Pace. Leigh Pace.

Did you know that? I didn't know that, no. Yeah, we met through Leigh Pace. As you met. We met through Lee Pace. Lee Pace. Did you know that? I didn't know that. Yeah, we met through Lee Pace. As you may or may not remember, I had never really dated anybody in the industry. Yeah. Yeah. And so I was like, I don't wanna, that's like too close to home.

I'm like, what's a publicist? Is he gonna be like on his phone the whole time? I'm like, I don't know. But yeah, so finally after a while, I was like, okay, if this guy's still asking, I'll go. And Lee had a little barbecue for the three of us at his house. That's so cute.

We met and just completely hit it off. He was wearing Birkenstocks. And cargo shorts. Simon. Okay, Simon was. And I was like, there was something about that that I just loved. I was like, this is not what I pictured a publicist to be.

And I think it's so cool that he's just his own person. This is before Birkenstocks were really, I guess they never really went out of fashion for him, but now they're really cool. But at the time they were maybe on the fence a little bit more. Right, right, right. I don't know, I just kind of think they're on the fence

for me still. Yeah, yeah. I remember Max had me wear them in a scene on the show this year and I really, it was the one time I was like, do I have to wear berets and stuff? And he was like, yeah. Everyone's just like, they're so comfortable

and your foot becomes one with them. I'm like, it just hurts. I feel like I'm walking on pebbles. There's a break-in period that's- I don't want that break-in period. No, we don't need that. I want my shoe to just feel good immediately. Give me a hoca.

Give me a hoca. Oh, I love a hoca. God, I love a hoca. A cushy hoca. A cushy hoca. Me and like the boom operator, just always in cushy hocas. Yeah, yeah, yeah, a hoca. God, I love a hoca. A cushy hoca. A cushy hoca. Me and like the boom operator, just always in cushy hocas. But yeah, so, and then our second date,

he took me to a Stevie Wonder concert. Oh, that's a good second date. Yeah. It was just a really iconic, amazing experience to have. It's like a first real proper date, you know? And you were young. I was young. Yeah.

I was 29 or maybe just turned 30. Wow. Yeah. To meet someone so young and then also have such longevity is really remarkable. Yeah, it is. And to become a dad at such a young age. Yeah, I mean, I had always been like,

well, you know, maybe when I'm 40, which seemed like an eternity away. Which is when I first became a dad, yeah. Okay, yeah. I was like, maybe I'll adopt the kid then. Yeah. To be gay fathers at that time was, I'm sure a whole other set of like, you know,

hoops to jump through. Yeah. We obviously became dads much later in 2020 was our first, even at the hospital in Vegas, you know, I remember like having to fill out forms where I had to cross out mother and put, you know, intended parent. And I mean, and and put, you know, intended parent. And I mean, and that's, you know, that's now.

I can only imagine how different things must have been when you had your first kid. Yeah, and a lot of that, cause there was so much before even I came into the picture, he was just one of those people who knew he wanted to have a family. And you know what? It shows in every fiber of his being.

While I think he's an unbelievable publicist, seeing him as a father is like, I mean, there are so many times where he's such a good father that I just like have to just step aside and just like bask in the glory of him being a dad. That's so sweet. I love that. I'm not even gonna chime in here because you're handling this so beautiful. I'm sure he feels the same way him being a dad. Oh, that's so sweet. I love that. You know what I mean? I'm not even gonna chime in here

because you're handling this so beautiful. I'm sure he feels the same way about you at times. At times. At times. At times. I think he's passed the baton a few times too, but it's just so clearly a role he was born to play. What is that?

What is happening? You said I'm gonna bring you one small dish. I said a few small dishes. You said a few, so. Look at the pectoral fins on this fish. It looks like it could fly at one time. It's like doing the Ariel, Little Mermaid, part of your world back bend on this platter.

Part of your world. Wave a binder. Oh my God, what are you doing? It's a pineapple glaze. Sure. Wow. And then spring peas that are in doing? It's a pineapple glaze. Sure. Wow. And then spring peas that are in season right now. That's actually spring peas.

Spring peas toasted chili soy. That's crab rice. This is crab rice. Crab rice, yes. Crab fried rice. Is it wrapped with egg? Wrapped with egg. Yeah, it's wrapped with egg.

Oh my God. I mean, I'm blown away. We're gonna do our best. Yeah. This is incredible. Thank you so much. Thank you. How do you feel about a whole fish situation coming to the table?

I love brand Zeno and usually it comes whole. And if they can do it off in another place where I don't see all the other things, I'm happy with that. But if the fish is doing a part of your world little mermaid back bend over a rock, I wanna see it. Yeah, you need to take that moment in. Oh, that is very good.

I grew up like fishing a lot and my dad and my brother are both hunters. So I did see a lot of that stuff. It's a Texas thing. It really is. Yeah. Did you feel like it took leaving Texas to sort of really become comfortable in your own skin?

It took more than that. It took leaving college to come. Yeah, it really did. I think there were just so many things that had been programmed in me from a young age that I didn't know how to make peace with, that I didn't know how to identify with,, that I didn't know how to identify with, and that I didn't want to separate myself from,

but I knew I had to if I was gonna have any kind of authentic experience as a person. Yeah, yeah. I mean, all actors have, well, not all actors, all actors who are queer have a different relationship with the business and how to navigate your way through that. And for me, I think I specifically chose

not to deal with it until I feel like I had to. And I don't want it to sound like something that it was a burden to confront, but it also felt like something I just didn't want to draw attention to and put flags around until it felt like it was important enough to do that. Same, yeah. Also like being a part of the theater community,

it just sort of felt like, well, there's absolutely no need to cross that bridge right now. Like I've felt very supported and I just felt very much myself around these groups of people. And it wasn't until really modern family for me that I felt like, okay, I'm playing this gay dad.

I want kids to look to these characters and see a reflection of themselves in these people and recognize themselves and recognize the types of lives they can have. And I knew I was gonna be asked questions about my own personal life. And I just never questioned that I was gonna be honest with it my own personal life. And I just never questioned that I was gonna be honest with it.

I've known you for a very long time and I've never known you to be someone who has hidden your sexuality. No, I never did professionally. No, no. And it was so weird, but I felt like you remember this time, but it was like, and I don't mean to cut you off.

No, I'm done for the whole day, actually. I mean, it was like, and I don't mean to cut you off. No, I'm done for the whole day actually. It was that time when folks could kind of take over your own personal narrative before you even had a chance to. So I remember like outlets like Perez Hilton and things, like talking about my personal life before I'd ever had a chance to even do it myself. And it wasn't because I didn't want to,

I didn't even have an opportunity to. No media outlet was ever going like, hey, I just didn't have a career that warranted that. And so it felt kind of unfair to me that that was stolen by people who did have a microphone at the time. Totally. It was a weird time.

But for me, I think once I did have a little bit of a, you know, I didn't have a voice or anything, but even when we were walking around in the streets, you know, there'd be pictures of Simon and our kids and I, and I didn't want to, them to feel like they were some kind of shameful secret or, you know, that something I was sweeping under the rug so I could have a great career or something.

When I had the opportunity to do it, it was perfect. The amazing Diane Carroll, who I was lucky enough to work with for six years on my collar, was hosting me for this event. And it was a humanitarian event. And I was like, I'm gonna thank my family because that's what someone would do in this circumstance.

But the headlines were that you came out. Yeah. Yeah, and you came out. Yeah. Like, you know. Yeah, and that's okay. Yeah, but it's not funny because you've had a family for so long. And it's just like, oh, I got it, well, that's what it was. I mean, the same thing happened on the view.

Like the first time I actually said something about me being gay, it was with Modern Family was already on and I was on the view of all places. And someone asked something about it. I talked about my boyfriend or me being gay. And it was just like a passing thought. And I didn't even think that it was me

making an announcement. It was just answering a question. And my sister called me. She's like, oh, you came out on The View today. I was like, ah, first of all, there were no headlines that had come out. But like for her, that was the first time she'd heard me say it.

And I was like, I guess I did. But it felt so anticlimactic, I guess. I mean, I had the first Magic Mike movie coming out later that year. And White Collar was this, you know, it was a pretty successful show where I was playing a straight leading man. I didn't have anything to fall back on.

What I had was a loving family. That was my safety net. And I was like, you know what? If the worst that happens is that I don't work again and I have this beautiful family who I love and who loves me, then so be it. Did you feel a change or no? Yeah, but I also felt a relief.

I felt like for so many years, not that I was like putting on a performance or anything, but going into a meeting, I didn't, it was one last thing for me to have to even worry about. Not that I ever like changed who I was because I was always pretty honest with anybody I worked with. There was one professional experience

where it was not safe for me too and I didn't say anything and I don't regret it. Was it early in your career? Yeah, yeah, early-ish, yeah. It was just, there was language being thrown around on the set and direction being given where those terms were being used. And I had no one else around me.

So anyway, different time. That's like PTSD. We've all grown. Like high school for me. Yeah, totally. It triggers all that stuff. And you're trying to give a performance at the same time. I can only tell you from an outside perspective,

watching your career, it blossomed in a way that I think it wouldn't have if- Yeah, I think so. These nuances about your personal life were not something that were a part of your makeup and who you are. Yeah, I wouldn't change a thing. I'm so happy that it all worked out the way it did.

And I feel, I don't know if you felt this way too, but I feel like as an actor, I was suddenly able to access parts of myself that I never could before, regardless of what the sexuality of the character was. Like I was able to go places that I don't think I would have been able to if I'd had that one extra layer holding me back.

Yeah, that's interesting. [♪ music playing, while shooting White Collar, and becoming an empty nester in his late 40s. Okay, be right back. This episode of Dinners on Me is brought to you by Nissan. These days, it feels like the world and our lives are moving at hyper speed. I mean, that's why I love doing this podcast. It's a chance to slow down,

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And we're back with more Dinners on Me. I had Patricia Clarkson on the other day on the podcast, and she'd just come from the Vanity Fair party. But I remember a year that I went to the Oscars, and I went to the Vanity Fair party. I remember a year that I went to the Oscars and I went to the Vanity Fair party and I had to shoot the next day. And I stayed out like till like four in the morning and I had like six AM call. And I was like, it's a once in a lifetime thing.

And it was, I still can, whenever that episode comes on, I just see it. Like I look like I just rolled out of bed. Oh, oh, dude, no human can supersede that. I never missed a single day on White Collar, all six seasons, never missed a single day. The one that I did get sent home one time, it was when that show, the way it worked out

is it would be released while we were still filming. So I'd be having to do all the press and talk shows while we're, and they wanted me to do West Coast talk shows. So I did my first tonight show. I had the flu. It was with Jay Leno. That's how long ago it was. Oh my God, I did that too, yeah. And then I flew back on the overnight.

I sat next to Joan Rivers, God bless her soul, who was amazing, and really knew how to do the overnight flight. She passed out as we were ascending and woke up as we were descending. I was like, you got this down. She has it down. I had to go straight to set and start work.

And after the first two scenes, the AD was like, we're gonna go ahead and let you go home today. Oh my God, you were dismissed. That was so awful. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Oh wow. I wanna share with you though, cause I'm so curious how you feel about this

because I was working with this brilliant actress. I'm not gonna name drop it. She had chose to have kids later in life. And she said to me, I'm so grateful that I did because I was able to do the work on myself before I was parenting little souls. And now anytime something comes up that triggers me, because we all hear our parents' voices come out of us

when we're parenting, right? And it's like, it's our job to like, in the moment go, oh, was that a good one? Or is that one that I'm, it's my responsibility to kind of like maybe find my own way to navigate that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she said, now when something, and I wish I'd heard this when I had younger kids,

because it's so brilliant. Now I parent myself before I parent the kid. And I know how to address the part of myself that's getting triggered before I talk to the kid. I heard something else like that from an actress who I admire greatly. And another thing she said was, because I was feeling bad about leaving and going to work.

And she said, it's really important for your kids to see you doing things that make you happy. Yes, and know that you love it. Yeah. Yeah. Great advice. Yeah, truly. I made a children's book for them. The first like four seasons of White Collar. And then if I would go away to a location,

shoot or something, I would print out pictures of us all and cut out our heads. Oh, that's sweet. And then draw stick figures and be like, Maddie's going to New York. And I'd be like me on an airplane, like waving goodbye to them. And he's going to be there doing something he loves. And I would have like a director and a camera.

And then, you know, he's gonna come back for your birthday. And then he's gonna come back for Easter. And then, and then you're all gonna be back together again. And it was a way for them at, you know, two and three and four and five even to go, oh, okay. Yeah. I don't understand, because they don't know time. Yeah.

It's the most beautiful thing. They have no concept of time, but they know you're gone. Yeah. And so it was a way for them and a format that they understood. I got this from a child psychologist. I didn't just come up with this myself. That's a great idea, yeah.

And anytime I'm, I always ask them, I'm like, hey, I got offered this play or whatever, and are asked to maybe do this play for three months or whatever. How would you feel about me doing it? And they were like, if it's what you love, you should go do it. Oh, that's really incredible.

They're really mature about it that way. That's incredible. They're not like, no. Part of me is like- Manipulative. You could be a little bit more- Yeah, yeah, a little bit more sad that I'm leaving. Oh, I'm sad, I'm going, but okay. Yeah, no, it's something I'm learning to navigate now with young kids.

And there's that thing of like, you know, having kids later in life, though, is I did get those years when some of my friends were, being parents, you know, I got to like go travel and do fun things. And then I also look at people like you, I'm like, oh God, they're at the end of it. And there's a piece of me that feels like sad

because I'm enjoying so much about with the young years, but also the idea of getting your life back in certain ways and. Yeah, I'm not gonna lie, there is a part of that that's really enticing. Yeah, yeah. But there's a part of me that's like, oh, I've never really known this with Simon of like,

what's it gonna be like if we're like, let's have a date night tonight on a Wednesday night, last minute, let's just go out for dinner. I mean, your whole relationship has kind of always had this other element in it. Yeah, it's always had different responsibilities that we've had to honor first and foremost, you know? So it's gonna be like, should we just,

let's take a vacation. Let's take our hearing horns out to dinner and just have a conversation. Yeah, make sure they turn the music down. Oh my gosh. That's real. That is real. That is real.

I'm so happy you did this. I cannot wait for people to see your comic genius in the Century Modern. The day that I got to spend with you, I was like, wow, this is so exciting to see you do such a different, hilarious, new thing. And I just feel like people are really gonna be surprised by this new side of you.

That's very nice of you to say. It was a bucket list all around. It really was. I'm so proud of you. I hope folks like it. What's the restaurant you used to work at again? Komodo. I feel like when I came to Komodo that night,

he might have comped our meal, so. Oh. Today, dinner's on me. Oh, full circle. Thank you so much. You're welcome. This episode of Dinner's on Me was recorded at Merroa at the Pendry in West Hollywood, California.

Next week on Dinners on Me, you know her from Christopher Guest films like Best in Show and For Your Consideration, and her long-running role as Sue Sylvester in the hit ABC series Glee, its five-time Emmy Award-winning actor and comedian Jane Lynch. We'll get into sharing this screen more than once with screen icon Meryl Streep, and she delights me with her Montecito life, which includes mid-week lunches with comedy icons. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners on Me Plus. As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad-free.

Just click Try Free at the top of the Dinners On Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Dinners On Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcalf.

Sam Baer engineered this episode. Hans-Dale Shi composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tamika Balanz Kalasny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week. I don't know about you, but when I was a kid, one of my favorite shows was the one I used to Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week. I don't know about you, but when I was a kid, one of my favorite errands was going to the deli counter with my parents.

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