Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - Padma Lakshmi

Episode Date: July 4, 2023

Padma Lakshmi, host and executive producer of Hulu's "Taste The Nation with Padma Lakshmi," joins me at 53 in NYC's Midtown. Over dumplings and hot pots, we discuss growing up as a latchkey kid in New York City, her amazing swim shoot for Sports Illustrated, and how to be informed and aware of culinary appropriation.  Want next week’s episode now? Subscribe to Dinner’s on Me PLUS. As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, but you’ll also be able to listen completely ad-free! Just click “Try Free” at the top of the Dinner’s on Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. A Sony Music Entertainment & A Kid Named Beckett production.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, it's Jesse. Today on the show, the brilliant, curious, and kind Pat Malakshmi. We'll talk about the second season of her amazing show Taste the Nation. It's one of my favorites, being a Latch-Key Kid in New York City in the 80s, and what it's like to be a super-taster. Even as a toddler, I was eating very, very spicy pickles, and I would actually seek them out and try to sneak them when everyone was sleeping. You're gonna want to stick around for this. I'm on West 53rd Street in the heart of Midtown.

It's late afternoon and there's tourists figuring out where to go next, business people making those end-of-day closer calls. 53 is new to Manhattan, but it's quickly wowed Manhattan nights with both its design and its food. Both are dramatic. The space itself feels part restaurant, part gallery, but it's a spot that doesn't want to be just beautiful. It takes its food very seriously, too. This is Dinner's On Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Without further ado, you might know her from Bravo's Top Chef, who lose taste of the nation, or her numerous books, Padma Lockshmink. I've never seen you in person in an elevated place like this, because when you take me

out, we're going like, hold on the walls, we're going to like, definitely tiny little places you've found. Even when you come to LA, you're like, these are the places that we can go. So like, we never go to places that are like, you know. You know why? Because those places to me at this point

are more interesting. Food is one of the weird things that trickles up, like food trends, trickle up versus trickling down. So that's why I want to go to those mom and pop stops. Yeah. You know, because that is where the future of food in this country is. Of course, I totally agree with you. We use this order for me. Sure. We'll get an eel club. Yes, the Zaalong Bow and the crystal dumplings and we'll get some bok choy which was to garlic and the skate. Yes, good ordering I just remember the last time I saw you was your Dwaali party. Was that long ago? Yeah, it was really long time ago

Wow, that's a good month ago. Yeah, I, I think we've talked on the phone since then, but probably. You said, I'm the only one who calls you on your birthday, including your mom. You do call me up on a birthday. I can't help it. I'm hearing your voice. I mean, I can text you, but I can't show you anyway.

I love it when I say that you're calling me or FaceTiming. It was like a good FaceTime. And so for our mutual friend, Mollique Poncelli, texted me a text message. He's like, have you been to Padmas? To all the parties, like, yeah, I've been, it's been like five or six years since I was able to go, but we're going this year.

And he goes, how deep do they go into like, you know, dressing up? And I don't remember six years ago, like anyone really dressing up, was like, it's not really that much. He's like, okay, because's Malik has like everything. Like, yes. That's a good chance for him to be someone.

Absolutely, he worked for his wedding. And so he's like, okay, he's like, I'm my worst, I'm my, you know, where, something. And he's like, okay, we're just wearing suits because we don't have anything. And then I got there and like, we were the only two people that were wearing suits. Everyone else was like, full tilt.

And so Malik was like, I'm so glad why wore this. But then I remember your friend, so did you tie your tie. She came in like in jeans and a t-shirt and you swooped her up. You have to rush to order, you're like upstairs now. Well, she had called me and she said, I don't know that I have anything ready.

Because like all of us, we have a few of those outfits. Yeah. You know, there are a lot to wear in New York or LA, like in regular life. And so I said, it's fine. I'm sure I have something. Yeah. And so she's like, okay, you better because I'm just coming in jeans. I said, just come and go right to my bedroom.

Yeah. And she did. And she found probably what I wore another year. Right. You know, that's basically when I go to India, I bust that stuff out. Sure. It's Diwali. Yeah.

And those LA Indian people are way more serious than New York Indian people. Yeah, I said, Monde and I were talking about that. Because all of a sudden now Diwali is all the rage. You know, when we grew up, it was like we got a few sweets and we were pushed off to school. You know, we didn't even get to go have a day off. But now it's like, there's so many Diwali parties.

And I was looking at the one. Yeah, I know what I saw you many D-Valley parties and I was looking at the one. Yeah, I know what I saw you on Instagram and I was like you were at another one. I was like you're Diwali hopping. I am Diwali hopping. Yeah, because Diwali is actually five days. We celebrate the first two days, but it's five days long. And then I've never had any Diwali parties to go to. So that's why I started throwing one when Christian was born. They were a lot smaller. They've gotten progressively. Yeah, no, when I walked into this one, Christian was born. They were a lot smaller. They've gotten progressive Yeah, no, when I walked into this one. It's like oh, this is a whole we've heard another level now. Yeah, yeah You've taken it up a notch

I'm so happy every time you invite me and when I can go Because you're always invited not whenever I invite you just have a No, no, I throw it to be on that list. It's it's a huge honor to be there You know your your family is so sweet. I was love seeing your mom. It's a tight list now, because I can only fit so many people. So every year we have to make some big Sophie's choices. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Please, I hope I never get caught.

I listen to your memoir. Oh, that's good. Because I throw a few singers in there that I'm in the book. You do. I mean, you're also like, you have one of those voices. I was like, just read me stories to go to sleep. You know, that's what I want. You know.

I love audio books. I mean, too, me too. And yours is so well done. Obviously, your memoir is gorgeous. Thank you. I haven't talked about this one. It first came out, love lost in what I wore. No.

Love lost in what I hate. Love lost in what we ate. Love lost in what we ate. You're not aware. I know what it's called, Padma. Love lost in what we ate is not where. I know what it's called, Padma. Love, loss, and what we ate. It's a beautiful memoir. But what sort of struck me when I was doing my research

and it kind of broke my heart open again was, you know, I'm a father. I was looking at this, did the lens a father and Beckett will be three in July. And I was, you know, being reminded that you and your mom were separated at such a young age, age two, when your mom left to an India and came to the States. I remember sitting on the side of where the gate was

to our house, and there were these bushes on either side of the gate, and there were berries, and I would always pick and smush the berries between my fingers, and I would always sit there smush the berries between my fingers and I would always sit there And whenever people came home in the evening We'll say what are you doing? What are you sitting here? And I would say I'm waiting for my mom to come home from work And they would say where is she working? She's working in America or in those days I called it America Yeah, so your mom left you behind in India because she'd been through through a divorce, and it was very stigmatized to be divorced.

Yeah, it was super taboo. So that's why she left. And I'm sure with always the intention of bringing you to the States when she sort of put down roots. Yeah, she had to get settled. I mean, she came here with literally $100 to her name. And at that time, there was a shortage of medical professionals. So she was able to get a visa that not everybody-

And she came to New York, right? She did. She came to New York. She came first to Rhode Island, but she studied for her nurse's license, both in Rhode Island and in New York with an uncle that she had. But she quickly moved to New York when she got the job at Sloan Kettering.

And because my uncle in Rhode Island was the only relative she had in America at that time, at least in the East Coast. So they helped her get the license, or helped her house her until she could pass the license. She got a job, and she got settled, and she saved some money. And then she cobbled enough to send me a ticket

to come when I was four. Did she go back and bring you back back or did you have a family inverter? No, I came as an unaccompanied minor at four. You can never do this today, but one relative would drop the child off at the gate, because also those were the days where you went right to the plane. You went right to the gate, right? And then the flight attendant or the air hostesses as we call them,

are so, so we have a car cause and plane waiters. You can remember the name. She's like, where is the plane waiter? I was like, I don't know. What? I was calling him air hostesses for a long, long time, much longer than I should, but they would shepherd you through

and you always got to sit in that front seat in economy. So you had more room. Was that the first time that you were on an airplane? At four, yes. Do you remember being scared? Are we just excitement that you were going to the place that your mom was going to? I was excited.

I don't remember being scared because I really wanted to be reunited with my mother. I was very close to my grandparents. And so in preparation for that trip, you know, like any good Asian parents or grandparents, my grandfather made me study for the trip. So he made me learn all of the states in America in alphabetical order. I could recite them at four.

I probably couldn't do it now. He also made me understand, you know, because we don't have, we do. We didn't have that many traffic lights. We had a lot of roundabouts and people trying to direct all the weird traffic in India from goats to rickshaws to scooters to everything. And in India, the only rule, the only traffic rule is biggest vehicle wins.

So everybody gets right away to the biggest guy. But he explains to me what don't walk, man, how to read that sign, the red and the green. You know, he told me to say that when I meet people, I should give them my right hand and say, how do you do? I'm fine. I'm well, thank you.

You know, because he loved, my grandfather loved America. He was so enamored with the pop culture and that you could go to a diner and get a cup of coffee and a donut for 50 cents. He had been a hydro engineer and he had traveled in America and Canada extensively to train American and Canadian engineers. And then he was also a very devout Hindu.

Yeah. You're telling a story. But these are the eel club. The eel is the test of Begaz with the eel and the flaugraunt. Then we have the jalaam bhal. I suggest using the spoon and bite a little tub up and kind of let it steam for consuming. And then these are the crystal dumplings.

More on mushrooms. Beautiful. Thank you. I think the reason I do what I do is because I was always searching for things to stimulate my palate. I think I was born a super-taster, and then I didn't know it until I was 40 something years old.

But in retrospect, that kind of makes sense to me because, you know, even as a toddler, I was eating very, very, very spicy pickles, and my family was very worried about that, and I would actually seek them out and try to sneak them when everyone was sleeping and climb up like a monkey in my grandmother's pantry to find the jars, because she kept moving them higher and higher. And then at some point they just let me go. You know, they just said, okay, she's clearly not affected by it.

And I always like to eat. And that is what developed my palate. I mean, a lot of children who grow up in India, in Indian families, when they come to America, they find it hard because the food is so lightly seasoned or delicately flavored. They're not used to eating that. And so they wind up dousing it with ketchup,

or Tabasco, or a swirl of the two. Right, right, right. You know. Do you feel, I mean, I've been in your kitchen. I see the way you cook. You're so good about introducing not only your friends and family, but your daughter to these things that you grew up eating and big flavors.

Is she, has she developed a similar sort of adventurous feeling around food? She can't eat as spicy as I ate when I was a kid. And now that's bothering her before it never bothered her. But now that her friends are coming over and they're like, oh, I love Indian food. So she wants to eat spicier than she does because she feels like a wimp, you know. But I told her, like, don't worry about it. You know, just eat what you want and try different things.

So she's a pretty adventurous eater. And she's also grown up on top shaft. She's literally grown up sitting on the lap of my director, Ari, and looking at these screens and listening to, you know, Gail and I and Tom, like breaking down food as we describe it. Yeah. So she's really good at doing an imitation of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, I remember you, I remember watching Top Chef and seeing, I think you were pregnant during one of the seasons. Yeah. Yeah. How was it? It's clearly a lady or something. A juicy, I want you to bite off the tip. Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Oh, not a whole thing. And then he said, let it steam out. Well, I didn't, I'd bet off more than just a 10.

Exactly. But that's me, you know, always say more than just a 10. Yeah. Still delicious the way I eat it. You know what? Messy but delicious. Yeah, very good. I know that you also just to sort of still continue on

with your upbringing or childhood, going back, having to go back to India at age 16, was it? No, I went back when I was seven. When you were seven? Yeah. Okay. To study there. To study. Okay, so you really did, I mean straddle America in India, quite a bit in those formative years.

I went every summer. Oh, you did? For three months. Like the minute school got out, I was on a plane to India. How's this? It's very good. This is the jewel, one, what do they call it?

Yes, yes. I remember it. No, the crystal. It calls it a crystal template. You can see? Because you can see through it. I let you order and then I kind of like, I went, boo, while you're ordering.

I was like, Padma's got me. Yeah, that's good. I was thinking, and this, I mean, the circumstances are so different, but I was thinking about, because I've watched you with Krishna, you're just such an amazing mother. And I've seen you operate with her when she was very young.

I've seen you kind of deal with her when she's deal with her. I put that in quote marks. You know, I interact with her as she's more of an individual. And now she's a teenager and she's expressing interest. And you are raised by your mother. She was a single mother. I know Krishna's father Adam, he's around, in like a much mother. I know Christian is a father, Adam. He's around in a much different situation than you had

where you didn't even know your father. Are there things you talked to your mom about, like being a single mom? Definitely. I mean, I gained so much empathy for my mom after having Krishna. And I always had empathy for her. You know, I have a lot of resources that my mother

could never dream of having. And so that, in itself, even without Adam, makes it much easier. But there is this whole other parent that takes her every other weekend and splits the holidays with me. And also, now that she's older, she doesn't want to miss school.

So I leave her with Adam when I go to film, both shows. She still comes out for half of Top Chef, because she feels a great proprietorship, of course. So I have it much easier than she did. And when I look at how she managed to do all that she managed to do, I do talk to her about that. But my mom was also a 70s parent.

Yeah, much different. And so yeah, much different. Like my mother let me do stuff that I would never let Christian do it. Why was a lachky kid? I was well-estating around New York, but you know, I used to take the subway. I had a dollar for lunch and I would, you know, usually buy a slice of pizza in a can of soda across the street from school. And then after school, I'd go to the deli and get a bagel with cream cheese for 50 cents. And then in the morning, she would leave before I did for school and she would leave me a little list,

like go buy some milk and butter or whatever. And it reminds me still to this day of that Sesame Street cartoon. Oh, a bright container, I'm not gonna stick it in the water. Exactly, as he was showing our age. But I had all kinds of autonomy. I mean, I was loose in Manhattan from 3 p.m. to 30, 245 to 645.

That's four hours as a nine-year-old, you know? And there was no supervision, We didn't have cell phones. I remember I literally had a key on some butcher string around my neck that was underneath my shirt, and I let myself in. I just remember skating back and forth on that one block between East End and York Avenue and front of my building.

So yes, I was alone, but also I was supervised because I had a very deep relationship with my door men Because they were just standing there literally watching me zip back and forth across their eye line You know through the glass door and I Think one time I got a whole two-liter bottle of coke and Put salt in it and I said and the door man like, are you sure that's healthy for you? And I said, yeah, my mom knows I do it all the time.

But why would you do that? I just was trying to cook. Or I think I was trying to do something creative, you know, and that's how I started cooking. I would open up cans of Campbell soup and I would add chopped chilies. Yeah, I would do that too. And a regga-no.

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Okay, be right back. And we're back with more dinners on me. I wanted to dive into one of my obsessions, Padma's Hulu series, Taste the Nation. If you're not watching, download it and watch it right away. Well, finish listening to this podcast first, and then watch it right after that. Let's talk about Taste the Nation. So finish listening to this podcast first and then watch it right after that. Let's talk about Tasonation.

I am so endlessly proud of you for the show. I know how important the show is to you. I know that it sprung from your work with the ACLU. First of all, your show is so well done. It's so beautifully, the cinematography of it is stunning. Thank you. Obviously, before I even watch it, I knew it was going to be something special because I've listened to you in first person talk about food in very passionate ways, very intelligent

ways. You love to educate as well, like without making it feel like medicine. The second season's out now. I've been to three episodes last night. I was really moved specifically by the Puerto Rican episode and the discussion about ketchup. And so many people that you encounter, you ask, ketchup or no ketchup, and it's all over the map.

And what really struck me was when one of your guests, it's the moment who's a singer, she says, ketchup, that's colonialism on a plate. And I was like, wow, that is just so specific. And also, like kind of the thesis of the show, I mean, you're using, using in this case a very specific condiment catch up to discuss so many bigger things and it opens up all these conversations about

you know Puerto Rico should we become the 51st stage should we become our own you know thing like what is it means to separate from the United States what why do we need the United States and it's a great debate that doesn't seem to have an answer the episode does not end with a consensus yeah I mean I you know for there isn't an answer at the end of that episode because people feel really differently about it.

But there are decisions made in Congress that affect Puerto Ricans by people who are not elected by Puerto Ricans. And I don't think that's fair. That's my position, but I'm not Puerto Rican, and it's not for me to say, which is why I let Puerto Ricans in Puerto Rico do the talking and there's different views. Some people are like, look what's happening to Haiti

and other places and we just should actually try to become a state. Because the reason, if you've watched episode, that food and produce specifically prices are so high is because of the shipping law, the Jones Act, which is really written a hundred years ago to favor American corporations. And it says that anything being imported or exported in and out of Puerto Rico has to go to a mainland U.S. port first.

And that costs money, right? The act of doing that is like one more stop before it comes to whomever is paying for it. So the price is heavier. And it prices a lot of families out of feeding their family in a healthy way when the climate is so beautiful, they should be growing food,

not only enough for their little island, but for a lot of the surrounding Caribbean. And you know, with that Puerto Rican episode, we wanted the episode to be informative, but we also wanted it to be uplifting. We didn't want it to- Completely as. We didn't want to tell that same poor me story

because Puerto Ricans are sick of it. And we wanted to also highlight people who are doing something about it and are literally cultivating and improving the soil of their own land. Well, at the end of the day what this nation is for me is it's a celebration of culture. Thank you. It's this, of our pots. I forget which clay pots you got. We've got the curry, the shrimp curry, and the cod. The white rice is for the curry.

Thank you. I'm gonna add a little bit of this chili and pizzoi into the cod. Get both of those in there, because powder like some is good. Yeah. I'll take both the chilies, thank you. And the rice is gonna continue to cook.

I think it's nice and crispy. Thank you, continue to cook. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Something I wanted to talk to you about, because I think you would speak intelligently on it, and I don't really know how to answer. Oh, so, okay. Let me back up. So I wrote a cookbook with my good friend Julie, who's from Alabama.

I've grew up in New Mexico. And a lot of the recipes in the cookbook are recipes that I grew up eating, or versions of the recipes I grew upbook are recipes that I grip eating or versions of the recipes I grip eating sort of with my own spin, front new Mexico, Julie has a whole, you know, all of her recipes are from what you're up eating in Alabama. And a few of them are sort of like a fusion between the two. Like we have this enchilada pot pie that we really love. And when we were writing it, we did start thinking about like culinary appropriation.

And like what that meant is that two white people, you know, I'm bringing a lot of dishes that have Native American roots. The state cookie of New Mexico is the Biscachito, which was brought in by Spanish settlers. You know, we're doing gumboes and shrimp and grits that, you know, a very West African brought over by enslaved people in plantation kitchens. And we did as much as we could to infuse our writing with, you know, explaining where these things came from, their origins.

But, you know, when you're writing a cookbook too, it's the piece of you that you're offering. I had a very, I don't know, complicated and sort of like, white guilty feeling about writing some of these recipes. Well, as somebody who loves you like a brother and has known you for literally 15 years, good. I'm glad you have that guilty feeling. You should have had that guilty feeling.

That's my honest answer. And I think it comes down to scholarship. Like you've been to my house, you've read my books, I don't only cook Indian food at all. And I don't think that only Indian people should cook Indian food. That's ridiculous. Right. But you know, if you're cooking, I'm going to just take Indian food as an example. But if you're cooking a curry, or you know, you're cooking with turmeric, don't act like you discovered it. Right. You know, for the first time, you call it something else. And then, you know, you're cooking with turmeric. Don't act like you discovered it. Right, you never, the first time, you call it something else.

And then, you know, you're clearly doing a hodgepodge of two or three different things that you read and or taste it or whatever. I mean, at all cooking at some point is appropriation, okay? If only from your forefathers and mothers, right? There's no new idea. Right. It's somebody's no new idea. Right. It's somebody's already done everything.

Everyone's been done. Yeah, but I think what's important is citation and also it makes you not only sound smarter but be smarter. So, in your case, if you're taking a recipe from hash chilies, right? You're taking hatch chilies and you're making this chicken pot pie with hatch chiles.

And you just have to work backward. Everything is okay, as long as you're explicit and honest about where it comes from and give credit where credit is due. Right. So we're working on the Taste the Nation cookbook now, and I know exactly how you feel. I mean, it's such a different, interesting experience because usually I'm just writing recipes that I think are delicious and I'm using spices from

the world or whatever and coming up with stuff. But even in that case, you know, even in tangy tart hot and sweet, I give citation. Which is your second cookbook, right? Yes. And I, which was actually just reissued a couple years ago. Fourteen years later, they were issued. Yeah, right? Yes. And I, which was actually just reissued a couple years ago. 14 years later, they should, yeah, it was great. I mean, Apple. It's a great cookbook. Thank you. Apple books, I picked it as their best new book. And I felt like somebody should whisper to them.

It's actually not a new book. But I mean, you know, even there, I explain what a Chipotle pepper is, you know, because at that time, nobody knew. Now there's this chain called Chipotle. So I think, you know, you just have to be aware that there's a whole world of deep history out there. Sure. And then say that in as, you know, efficacious and brief, but succinct way as you can, because also you've got this head note that you have to make everything fit into. Right. You know, you have like 120

words or whatever. Totally, and what do you tell them? Do you tell them about the wax paper that they should put on the sheet pan, you know, under the pie pan, or do you tell them, like, well, hatched chilies were really cultivated 12,000 years ago by Mesoamericans that, you know what I mean? But to me, you know, as you can tell,

if you've ever watched Chase the Nation, I love history. I'm a history nerd. And so, this is an Asian place so all of those idiocy and credit, weird rabbit holes I wanna go down. But you do have an obligation to do that, especially if you are European-American,

as I like to call white people in this country. I mean, I just think it's fair that everybody should have to hyphenate their name, right? And I think you owe it to yourself and your fellow Americans to do that. And by the way, it can be tedious, but in the long run, it's like going to the gym, you will be better for it. You'll not only feel better, you'll look better.

You know? No, it's so true. And you know, my first cookbook was called Easy Exotic. And that title makes me cringe today. But the intention behind that title is one that I still stand by. What I was trying to do is to demystify dishes that are thought of as quote unquote exotic.

But I only exotic to European Americans. Yeah. I mean, bolivol, arrajma, not exotic, as pedestrian as you can get in downtown New Delhi, or even in London, right? Even I remember going on the today show for the first time with easy exotic, it was like 1999, and then being like, well, how do you eat this?

I think, yeah, something like how Roku was like, well, how do you eat this? So what are you doing? And I just kind of said, with a spoon. But, you know, I mean, it just comes from not knowing. Sure. And so you don't just want to replicate that is the thing. Yeah. But I also think like you don't have to cancel a person. You can write. Now, I'm not talking about anyone in particular, but just as a principal, because if somebody wanted to, they could come after me for a 23-year-old book. And now that's what I'm going through that now

with the two-cination cookbook, because I'm making Peruvian dishes and Chinese dishes and Cambodian dishes and all the rest, you know. You have it really hard. Do you ever like ask for leadership or guidance from people who you know are from the places? Yes, because I'm not the, I'm the expert of the body of knowledge I possess, but I am not the expert on Peruvian food or Nigerian food. And so yeah, I mean, when we, the dishes that you see on the show are from that community made by people who have grown up with that food and, you know, in writing the cookbook, you know, there are only like three recipes from each culture. So we're adding a lot

of other recipes that did not appear on the show or are from my other travels around the world. And so my first thing is research. Before I ever turn on the stove or go grocery shopping, it's research, it's trying to eat as many examples of that dish. It's asking people within that community, you know, can you make it with this? Can you substitute those raisins for sultanas or dried cherries if somebody wanted to? Like is that okay? Or, you know, and also they're my interpretations of those dishes, but also I have to say that.

I have to say. This is my interpretation. Well, I have to say traditionally this Vistia is made with pigeon. We did a lot of that in my cookbook, yes, yes, yes. And it's hard, you know, and I have to, ultimately my name's on that cookbook. And I have to take responsibility for that. I mean, but, you know,

why people have been writing great cookbooks from around the world for dozens of years and decades, Paula Walfurt, Claudia Rodan. You know, there are all kinds of people who are not, you know, quote unquote, all the Mediterranean countries that they're writing about, but they're doing their scholarly research. Nowadays, Yasmin Khan, you know, in England

is doing some great writing on food from all over the world. So it is possible to do. Yeah, yeah. Well, thanks for having that. I mean, I really appreciate that sort of frank conversation about culinary appropriation because it's something I think about a lot. I think about when I'm eating out, I think about it when I'm looking at recipes online. I thought about it watching Tastination. What I do love about that show is that you are going right to the places you're talking to the communities who know the food, know the culture, know the history, and you're letting them speak for themselves.

And I think that's what's so beautiful about the show. Thank you. I mean, that is where that frustration comes from, because these people in these different communities have had other people come in, skate through the recipes, and then go back and say, this is how you make this without someone from the community getting credit for it. Like if a Cambodian person was like, I want to write a Cambodian cookbook,

it would be harder for them, maybe not today, but even five, six years ago, it would be harder for them to get published than you or me because I have a TV show too now. And saying, I want to write a cookbook and I want to put Kim Boone in recipes, you know? I think if I pitched that idea, I'd get a real quick now. I would tell you not to pitch that idea

before you got that video. You should have it now, but no, just please, no. God. Globally, humans are facing massive problems that are widely ignored by governments and the media. Like personal space invaders. I had it with these couples that sit on the same side of the booth.

Yak Mouth. Stupid stick figure bumper stickers. All in the milk. You cannot milk an almond. Hi, I'm Jennifer. And I'm Angie. We call her pumps, and we're the hosts of I've had it. Pumps tell the listener where they can find us.

Apple Spotify, Amazon, or wherever you get your. It's nailed it. See you next Tuesday. Hi, so if you have a few minutes to spare it, help us if you thought the short listener survey. It'll let us learn more about our audience, which helps us sell ads that keep this podcast free. You can also share your opinions about the show so we know what you think is working and what we could do better. So please go to dinnersonme.fans to fill out the survey. Thanks. Oh I'm so glad I was able to talk about that with Padma, but now for another break. But don't go away, we'll come right back and we'll talk about photos of Padma that recently broke the internet. Okay, be right back.

[♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ And we're back with more dinners on me. Oh, we haven't even talked about your sports illustrated. Oh my god. So let me just tell you, everyone that I've talked to you about, I'm seeing Padma, they're like, I love her so much, and then they go, have you seen it, I finished the sentence for them. I was like yes, I have what a moment I mean that is you first of all you obviously look fantastic

I sent I reposted on my Instagram of you on your hands and knees and you're I said this is me when I lose my contact lens on the bottom floor I'm funny, you know, it was fun and terrifying at the same time Yeah, you know because I eat for living and I have a really good metabolism That's more funning. It was fun and terrifying at the same time. Of course sometimes, yeah. Because I eat for a living. I have a really good metabolism, but still, I'm not in my 20s.

I would have killed for that in my 20s. I would have literally died of joy, because it's a really big deal for a young model. That's happening now is really cool. I'm glad I did it, but you know, it's just surreal. The whole thing from start to finish is surreal. And I was shot by a Taiwanese American photographer named Yut Sae, who's wonderful,

and has such great energy. And I love those pictures. They're gorgeous. Because it had been a really long time, like probably over a decade or a half, since I've done any photo shoot like that. And for the first time, my skin looks like it looks brown. You know, it isn't lighten.

Why because they would lighten and post or? Yeah, yeah, or just the way they expose it, you know. And this is the first time that I saw this beautiful pictorial. I mean, you know, there are a bunch of other photos from that that are equally, if not more gorgeous than the ones that have already posted where The skin just looks and in one of them we're shooting at sunset and it looks really dark and it looks really beautiful Yeah, and so I was really happy about that. I mean, I've I've been on covers of magazines

Where you know like even with Tom and the early days of Top Chef where he's darker than I am. I mean, literally, I kind of was like, hey, you know, the magazine blames it on the network and the network blames it on the magazine. And oh, it's just the way it printed. And, you know, and it's just weird. I had a childhood in this country looking at only white people. I don't want the little girl version of me whether she's Latina or little boy version of me

if they're Asian or whatever to have that same experience. I want them to see people of all colors because that's what America is, you know? But more than this word, so it was straight at the time 100 is what I'm proud of. Of course, yes. I mean, there's like two very different ends of this. I went on to your Instagram, though,

before we sat down, it's like, what's Padma Post-Restaurant? It was like Sports Illustrated time 100. And like I was like, that is quite remarkable. Kind of just ask what Christian thought of the Sports Illustrated? She actually, she was having her friends over for dinner yesterday, because see above,

they love Indian food. Before she wouldn't even eat the alnash, just just sing it out having her friends over for dinner yesterday because see above they love Indian food Yeah, before she wouldn't even eat the all now. She's just did she get out to her friends But she asked me she said mom can I show the sports illustrated to my friends, please? And I just said no, it doesn't matter, you know, because it's just on my phone right now Yeah, I said no, I said they don't need to see that and she was mom. I'm talking to Google it I mean they're probably gonna Google it But I don't need to be at. And she was mom. You're talking about going to Google it? I mean, they're probably going to Google it, but I don't need to be at my dinner table with my teenage daughter, with everything that's going on in their universe

and two other little girls. And I'm like, here's my sports illustrate. Right, right, right. You know what I mean? That just feels icky to me. I know she's proud of me. And I'm proud I could do it and look nice as I did. But I just, I have to be really mindful of that especially with

her you know she's used to seeing her mom do fittings try to squeeze my ass into those emigowns every year and she doesn't need that in her life she really doesn't I tried to make a big deal of the time 100th thing and all she wanted to know is like what was Michael B. Jordan I was on, I'm over the moon. I wish my grandfather was alive because this is something he'd actually be impressed by. You know, all my cousins and aunties and stuff are super impressed by sports illustrated and the people who are the most excited, along with me, of course, about sports illustrated, my gay male friends, and my older women friends, or my age women friends, I'm like, yes, God damn it.

Yeah. You know, and- That tracks. And so that is wonderful, but I really wish my grandpa had been alive. He would have lost his shit, but I had to have- Time went on. The time went 100.

You know, for me, it's happening now. It's happening so much later. Like, I feel like I'm such a late- It's happening at the right time. Blumer. But it's happening so much later. Like I feel like I'm such a late. It's happening at the right time. Blumer. But it's happening at the exact right time because you are in the right place in your life to handle all of that.

And specifically with Taste the Nation, you have so much world knowledge, you are a mother, you've reached this point of your career, you're in your life, you are in the right place to be talking and telling these stories. I adore you. I adore you too.

I love you too. Thanks for coming to Midtown. My pleasure. My pleasure. I think I need a passport to get back down. Hello, Martin Street. Woo! MUSIC

God, that was such a great interview. Padma is someone I look up to so much. Not only as a friend who appreciates food, but she's also always looking for ways to educate people on its history and where it comes from. I felt very safe having that conversation with her about culinary appropriation and I'm so happy we had it. It's an important conversation and I'm really happy she dove into that conversation with me.

By the time this airs, she will have announced her departure from PopChef, which was devastating when I read that on Instagram. I called her and I left her voice mail about how proud I was for all that she gave to TopChef. She was one of the first people who introduced me to the culinary world. I fell in love with food through early episodes of Top Chef, so before I even knew her as a

friend, she was my guide, and will continue to be as I learned so much through her and her amazing show, Tastination. Next time on Dinner's On Me, my on-screen niece Sarah Highland. We'll get into her romance with Bachelor in Paradise star Wells Adams, her insane childhood in the East Village, and how to refrain a workhorse mentality. Listen to even more episodes of Dinner's On Me on Amazon Music, and if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinner's On Me Plus.

As a subscriber, you not only get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen to them completely ad-free. Just click try-free at the top of the Dinner's On Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Dinner's On Me is a production of neon hum media, Sony Music Entertainment Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions.

It's hosted by Yours Truly. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Chloe Chobal is our associate producer, Sam Bear, engineered this episode. Hansdale Shee composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Alexis Martinez and Justin Miquita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.