Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - Patricia Clarkson — on being childfree and why equal pay shouldn’t be political

Episode Date: May 6, 2025

‘Sharp Objects’ star Patricia Clarkson joins the show. Over whipped eggplant and fresh pasta, Patricia tells me about growing up in New Orleans, being childfree, and we dig into her role as the titular character in the film “Lilly,” where she plays a Good Year equal pay activist that made quite the impact.  This episode was recorded at Elephante in Santa Monica, CA. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Instacart. We're here. everything from the latest Apple event to why nobody can afford a house right now. And some people are saying it's the best part of their morning. Because we know something you don't. Business news doesn't have to be boring. So check out Morning Brew Daily wherever you get your podcasts. And on YouTube. Hi, it's Jesse. Hi, it's Jesse. Today on the show you know her from her Emmy award winning role in HBO's Sharp Objects,

and more recently as a trailblazing equal pay activist in the film Lily, it's Patricia Clarkson. I've played a lot of drug addicts. You have. And yet I've never done any drug in my whole life. I've never even smoked pot. I've never been high. Really?

Never been high. Really? No. But the day is young. This is Dinners on Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Patricia Clarkson, or Patty, as her close friends and colleagues call her, is one of those rare performers whose presence elevates everything she touches. Now I've admired her for as long as I can remember. Her career is a masterclass in range, nuance, and taste. Whether she's lighting up the screen in an indie drama, commanding the stage in a Broadway play, or stealing scenes on prestige television,

Patty brings intelligence and depth that's just unmistakable. She has a knack for choosing projects that feel elegant, and human, and resonant. If her name is attached to something, you can bet it's going to be a high class affair. Born and raised in New Orleans, Patti carries that unmistakable blend of southern warmth and northeastern sophistication. She went to the Yale School of Drama, because, well of course she did, and her work reflects both rigorous training and a lived in emotional authenticity. She's like the personification of an expensive candle. She's elegant, intense,

and she smells amazing. And somehow she's always bathed in perfect mood lighting. Now one of her oldest and dearest friends is the celebrated playwright Richard Greenberg, whose Tony Award winning play Take Me Out remains one of the great American works of the 21st century. I had the incredible fortune of being part of the recent revival of this play, and through that process I got to know Patty a little bit better. Watching her navigate this world not as a star, but as a fiercely loyal friend was something I will never forget.

Her stories, insights, and reflections about Richard Greenberg gave me a deeper understanding of the man behind the beautiful complex words I had the privilege of performing every night. Patty is the kind of person who can whisper a perfectly timed bone dry aside one moment and deliver a profound emotional truth the next. She's equal parts intimidating and disarming, like if Catherine Hepburn and a French existentialist had a very fancy baby. Look at those shoes. Gorgeous.

Well, I dressed up, you know, sometimes, well, I was in these killer shoes last night. These are actually like slippers compared to the damn Louboutins I had on last night. I brought Patricia Clarkson to Elefante in Santa Monica. Elefante is the vision of Nick Mathers and the Wish You Were Here group, a hospitality and lifestyle group built on creating unforgettable dining experiences inspired by travel. And dining on the rooftop of Elefante really did feel like we were transported to a coastal cliffside in Sicily.

The ambiance alone is worth the visit, but the food completely seals the deal. Every dish is thoughtfully crafted with beautiful presentation, but the whipped eggplant, their signature dish, is definitely a standout. Between the perfect ocean view, golden hour glow, and decadent pasta, everything about my dinner with Patty

was absurdly romantic. It almost felt like a waste to not have ended our night with a kiss. Okay, let's get to the conversation. You're at the Osc, or you're at the Vanity Fair party? The Vanity Fair, yeah. I go to the dinner and then just go right into the party. It's fabulous.

I've never been invited to the dinner. I've been invited to the party. It's fabulous. I've never been invited to the dinner. I've been invited to the party afterwards, but I've never gotten invited to dinner. The dinner is fabulous. You don't have to. Oh, are we ordering food? Yes. Can we have alcohol?

Yes. Well, I don't drink, but you drink. I know, but I need hair of the dog. I would love, yes. Okay, I actually, I went to the Vanity Fair party one year when I was doing Modern Family, and we were shooting in Culver City. We shot at the Fox lot.

Right. In Century City, Century City. And the Vanity Fair party is in Beverly Hills. And so Justin and I, my husband and I, decided to get a hotel room in the area because I knew I had a 6 a.m. call. To go to Vanity Fair and then go to set the next day. And for some reason having a a hotel nearish to work made me think that I could

stay out to like two in the morning. No, no, no. I arrived to work. I was like, yeah, I should be fired for the way I've arrived to work. I was not prepared for work. No, I mean, I woke up this morning realizing I had to do your interview and I was like, oh my God, I need a face transplant. I need an IV, a stretcher. First of all, it's just me. I need an IV and a stretcher. Oh, come on.

Okay. Did you, so you stayed at LA? Yes, because I had friends in the hotel and so I got back to the chateau where I basically lived for 30 years and I loved the chateau. And you know, I knew a bunch of people there and we were all hanging in a room

and having, we just, I had a beautiful night last night. Yeah, it was very, very sexy. Very sexy. And very glamorous. I mean, it is quite a party. I remember, I mean, the first time I went to the Vanity Fair Oscar party, I was like, this is, first of all, it was my dream to always go to that. Yeah.

Because you know, you see the photos, you know, roll out over the next few weeks after the Oscars. And I was like, oh my God, to be in that room. I wore my mother's wedding ring that I inherited. My mother passed away in June. Oh, I'm sorry. My mom just passed away recently, too. It's tough.

Mom's passing away is tough. I know. And I think I'm over. I think I'm OK. And then, like right now, I just go, oh. But wearing her ring less on the red carpet was beautiful. It's beautiful wedding rings.

It's nice here. Are you warm enough? Yeah, it's fabulous. Yeah, the ocean in the back. It's gorgeous. That is the ocean. Are you distracted by yourself? That is the ocean, yes.

Are you distracted by yourself? Are you yourself in the mirror? No, I can't. You know what's good? Is you're blocking me. Oh, good. And I like that. Yeah.

You know, we look at ourselves so much as actors that I won't look, I don't look at pictures. I've learned to like see what the shot is, but then I don't need to see like playback. No, I don't need, like today, if you say I look good, I look good. Yeah. But it's like all the pictures from last night

on the big red carpet and all that. I want to see the one of me kissing the dog, and that's it. Oh, no, it's adorable. That's how I knew you were there. Some of the service dog was kissing you. I know. You know, it's so funny because I remember going once

to the Emmys with Modern Family and you all filter in and like they're showing shots of the red carpet inside the auditorium. I don't know if they do this for every award show, but they were doing it this year for the Emmys. They were showing people on the carpet, but there was a bit of a delay. So, you know, they'd be like showing, you know,

people arriving, but those people would actually be at that point inside the room, but they were showing them on the carpet still. And I remember Sofia Vergara coming in kind of late, and she's going to sit down, and then she's looking up, and she's actually watching herself in an interview and then they were talking about what she was wearing. Like they were like, just like kind of like

dissecting her dress. And she's sitting right there watching herself being like dissected. It's so meta. Amongst her like peers. It's so Purindellian. So weird, it's so crazy. How are you?

I'm well, how are you? Nice meeting you, Patricia. So I'm so glad there's unattractive waiters. I know, I'm so glad you How are you? I'm well, how are you? Nice meeting you, Patricia. So I'm so glad there's unattractive waiters. I know, I'm so nervous. Yes, my goodness. Thank you. Thank you. So happy to be here.

Thank you. Have you ever been with us before? I haven't. I haven't, no. Can I start with a, oh, maybe a Provence Rosé. It's not sparkling. That's the, Provence Rosé. It's not sparkling. That's the Provence is not. Oh, it's dry and not sparkling.

Yes, perfect. I see you have your own Rosé, but that's sparkling. But I'll have, or should I get the Vera Vermintino? They're both excellent choices. I prefer the Provence, but. Okay, good. Okay, I'll go with your preference. Excellent. Thank you. Could I have this watermelon mint spritz? Of course you may.

Oh, that sounds good. And so just so you guys know, we're known for the whipped eggplant here. It's Puccia bread. It's Italian. It's this puffy bread that comes with eggplant dip. Oh, that sounds fabulous. It's really good. It's like our steak. I love eggplant. It's so good. I's like our staple. I love eggplant. So good.

I think we could eat that. Do you like eggplant? Yeah. Yeah, that sounds great. We'll definitely do that. Yeah, and I'll be here for you guys if we have any questions. All the food's good.

Family style's a great way to go to share. Okay. Pockets are made fresh daily in-house. So I'll be here for you guys. Okay, thank you. Does anyone have any allergies that I should be aware of? Seafood.

I'm allergic to seafood. I knewafood. I'm allergic to seafood. I knew that. I'm allergic to anything. Oh, you put it by the ocean. Yes. Let's see what swims on shore. I'd love to bring you some water too for the table. Sure, great.

For sparkling, scald. I prefer flat, yeah. Excellent. I'm gonna go with that too, thank you. Okay, thank you guys. Thank you, thank you. Oh, I'm gonna take my table. Where's my plates?

You don't have a plate? Come on. He is handsome. I saw him walk in and I said, Oh, I'm gonna take my table. Where's my plate? You don't have a plate? Come on. He is handsome. I saw him walk in and I said, oh, Patty's gonna like this. But he's beautiful. He is.

He's not just handsome, he's beautiful. He's very good looking. Yes, yes. I mean, is he on camera? I hope so, we'll have to make sure he is. He's an asset. Were you just in LA for the Vanity Fair? I flew in to go to a beautiful party celebrating Guy Pierce,

who is such a great, great, great, great actor. He just said, I'm going to throw Guy a party for his work in The Brutalist. And so I went to that on Thursday, and then I went to CAA party, which was packed. Packed. Packed. Yeah.

But I mean, it was sexy. There were some great people there. I like telling people, I love you, you know, I loved you in this, or telling them something odd that I know about them, or something, some unknown movie probably that they wouldn't, that I've seen of theirs that I really loved.

I like doing that. I'm glad to hear you say that because I always find myself in those situations shy and feeling like I shouldn't approach them. I will always remember you coming up to me after Take Me Out and just gushing and being so effusive and so wonderful and like we had met before and we knew each other a little bit but not well. And just because I'm such a fan of your work and I love and so wonderful. And like we had met before, we knew each other a little bit, but not well.

And just because I'm such a fan of your work and I love you so much. So to hear it, even if you had said good job to me, that would have been like, oh my God, Patricia Clarkson told me I did a good job. So like you just, you know, being so effusive was so meaningful. It was honestly one of the greatest nights

in the New York theater. And you were of course a major part of that. And I'll just never forget your performance and the other men, the direction, Scott Ellis is just, he's the bomb. You did an elephant man with him, right? I loved every single minute of working with him. We started in, and I told Bradley, I have stage fright, I can't do it.

And he goes, I will cure you of your stage fright. I was like, I'm not. You have stage fright? I did. I don't anymore. But every step of the way, Scott Ellis was perfection. He's just, he's kind and soulful, and he's genuinely so engaged.

He's such a bro, you know, he's so butch. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he is. But he has a really soulful side. Yeah. To Scott Ellis. Scott Ellis. Yes, come on. He's a great director.

I've gotten to know Bradley Cooper a little bit through Scott Ellis, and the last time I saw Bradley, he lives in the village next to Brooke Shields, who's a buddy of mine. A friend of yours. She's so lovely. So lovely. Beautiful person, beautiful inside and out, beautiful.

I saw Brooke and it was late at night, we were at a restaurant together and she's like, I'd never seen her house. And so she's like, do you want to come and look at the house, and so she's like, do you wanna come and look at the house? I was like, sure, let's go look. You know, she and Bradley are very close because they live right next to one another. And in fact, ooh, this looks incredible.

Oh my God. Whoa. It's like a pillow. This is the whipped eggplant, y'all. Oh my God. Wow. Ooh, woo, woo, woo, woo. That looks incredible.

I think I need a plate and some silverware. Yes, I'm gonna make it right now. So. But so I go to plate and some silverware. Yes, I'm gonna be here right now. So. But so I go to, so they're very close. I guess Bradley would come over every morning and have. Well they live right near, yeah. They live, literally, they share a wall.

Yeah, they share a wall. And he would come over and they would have, he would have coffee in their kitchen every morning. Anyway, she's showing me her house and I'm in her kitchen. And it's like midnight. And Brooke is like, I wonder if Bradley's awake. And she decides to peek her head around the corner of her backyard.

And again, I do not know Bradley very well at this point. She goes, oh yeah, he's up, he's watching TV. It's midnight. She's like, let's go knock on his window. I'm like, I don't know if this is a great idea. Like I know you're super close with him, but like I don't know if he's gonna be thrilled to see me at his back window at midnight.

Who would want you knocking? I would kill for you to knock on my door at midnight. I'd be like, get your ass in here. Anyway, it happened. I was like, I somehow got convinced to go knock on Bradley Cooper's back door at midnight. And his dog starts going crazy. And that's not a metaphor.

No, no, exactly, it's not a metaphor. It's not a euphemism. I knocked on Bradley Cooper's door at midnight. Anyway, he couldn't have been kinder. He seemed happy to see us. I was like, I'm so sorry. He was watching late night TV. I don't know, he's watching a Saturday Night Live or something. Anyway, lovely human being. He's lovely and it's so, so talented. I agree. Let's taste this eggplant. Is it great? Oh, that's fabulous.

Oh, it is good. Mmm. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Patricia tells me about her portrayal as good-year tire whistleblower Lily Ledbetter in the new movie Lily and why its Hamptons debut was particularly emotional for her. Okay, be right back. All right, let's talk about something near and dear to my heart. Building the perfect sandwich. And yes, yes, I take this very seriously.

Step 1. You need a great bread. Fresh, crusty, something with character. Step 2. Boar's head oven-gold turkey. Always. It's juicy, it's flavorful, it's the backbone of this operation. Step 3. A few slices of Boar's Head Oven Gold Turkey. Always. It's juicy. It's flavorful. It's the backbone of this operation. 3. A few slices of Boar's Head Smoke Master Ham. Because I like to mix it up. It adds a slow smoked beechwood flavor that makes your taste buds just do a little dance. 4. Cheese. Sharp Cheddar if I'm feeling bold bold, creamy Swiss if I'm feeling fancy. Step five, a swipe of Dijon, crisp lettuce, thin sliced tomato, and maybe a pickle or two for drama. Layer it all up, cut it in half diagonally, obviously,

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I'm not super hungry, but I'm... It's not a weird hour to eat. And I'm getting on a red eye. Why do you have to fly back on a red eye? Do you have something tomorrow morning? I just gotta get home. You just wanna go. Mm-hmm. I get it.

Get me out of here. No, I just arrived from New York at 9 a.m. this morning. We're passing ships. You just got in. I just got in this morning. But you know, you live here and New York. Mm-hmm, yeah. You live, I'm not gonna say where you live,

but I ran into you coming out of your apartment. Oh yeah. Remember? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, in New York. And I told you again how but I ran into you coming out of your apartment. Remember? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I told you again how much I loved you and take me out. That's right. Because I hadn't said it enough. My God, you're so wonderful. Truly, your effusiveness means so much to me.

Wow. To finish, I thought that I was saying earlier about saying hello to people or complimenting people who you are maybe, you don't know super well you know, hello to people or complimenting people who you are maybe, you don't know super well or might be intimidated by. It's something I'm still learning to do because I always assume that the reaction's like, I don't want to hear this,

even though I've never not wanted to hear it from someone that high, that is in this industry. And I've been learning to just, you know, say the things I want to say to people, not expect anything. Sometimes people are more gracious than others, but it always feels good for me to just let someone know that their work is important to me. I mean, at Vanity Fair last night,

there were so many people to compliment, so many, but I met Chelsea Handler finally. Oh, you've never met Chelsea? Oh my God. Isn't she incredible? Oh my God, first of all, she looked so gorgeous last night. Oh my God, she looked so beautiful. I saw a picture of her, yeah.

But Chelsea and I are, you know, we're unmarried, we're single, childless women, and we love our lives. I know. And nobody can take that away from us. No, no, no, no. Literally, Chelsea was just on this podcast a few weeks ago, and we were having that very conversation. Yeah.

Yeah, I told her. She, but I finally met her, and I said, we are kindred spirits, and we just, we made our own decisions. We weren't pressured to live a life that we did not choose. Yeah, yeah. You know, and I'm a southern girl,

but my mother was cool about it, my mom and dad, my sisters. My father would only ask me, are you happy? Uh-huh. And that's all he wanted to know. Are your sisters married? Yes. Yeah. Well, my oldest sister, like me, kind of a career girl,

my other, my three middle sisters have many children and many grandchildren. Okay. So there's lots of kids in the family. Many, many, many, many. And they are beautiful. My nieces and nephews, I'm very close to. I kind of worship them.

And when they were little, when I was first kind of making it, they were four and five and they had the Pat Pat fan club, because they call me Aunt Pat Pat. And they would wear little t-shirts when I come over to Pat Pat fan club. That's adorable. But they would see photographs of me, you know, like on a red carpet or something. And they knew I was an actress and they kind of understood that. And I love going home. I'm going home to New Orleans soon.

When I'm in New Orleans, my life feels complete. Yeah. You know? I mean, a lot of people, you know, are raised in one place, but then they move around a little bit and that they don't have a really necessarily grounding city. But New Orleans really is that for you. Well, because I was born and raised there,

my mother ran the city under the great mayor, Mitch Landrieu, saved it from Katrina, after Katrina, rebuilt it. Talk about what your mom did with it. First of all, she was president of Louisiana Realtors, and then she became a state legislator, and then she really got to the heart of her soul, which is, her heart and soul is city,

is the city, the great city of New Orleans. And she became president of District C, councilwoman of District C, which is the French Quarter and Algiers. So I grew up in Algiers, I didn't grow up fancy. I didn't grow up uptown or in the Garden District. But my mother finally ran for district C because she had a grandmother, her Bubby,

my great grandmother, my Jewish grandmother, who lived in the French Quarter. So Bubby would hire a horse and cart to take them in their gowns and their long gloves, like when my mother was like 12, 14, to take them to the opera, to take them like 12, 14 to take them to the opera, to take them to the ballet, to take them to the symphony. And you know, when after Katrina, my mother said, well, we're going to rebuild every single

artistic venue in this city. This is the soul of this city, along with our music and our culture. So I mean, you've always been involved in politics You were raised in it. I know I you know, I got to watch Lily which is your your most recent film. Yes Yes, the great Lily led better as you know, you see This woman who really suffered such blows and kept getting back up, you know, she really She will be fighting for equal pay and you know, the thing is, what's beautiful is the Democrats embraced her, but the real truth

of this story is equal pay for women is not political. It's a right. It's just simply every single person in everyone's life benefits with equal pay. Your partner, your spouse, your lover, your mistress, everybody wins when women make equal pay. Your children, most of all, but also your friends benefit. Because you're sometimes, if you're making really great

money, you can live a certain life. And to think that she was kept down in a really tragic way. Her name is someone I remember hearing so much, specifically around the 2008 elections with Obama and Hillary. She was campaigning for both of them. Oh, she was. She believed in their, because they believed in equal pay. And the first, Obama's, held to his promise,

the first bill he passed was the Lilly Ledbetter Act. Because he's, I mean, who would think, this extraordinary black man from Hawaii, loving this older southern white lady from Possum Trot, Alabama. But they really got on, they really, they had a kindred spirit. And it moves me to this day. Yeah, me too.

It was incredibly moving. Yeah, with the border. Cool. Are you guys enjoying it? We're always happy to have you come visit us. Yeah, we're always happy. I'm gonna get the few ceiling. Okay.

Okay. And can you leave off the bread crumbs? Of course. But I will take some Parmesan on the top. All righty. Thank you. Thank you. And can you leave off the bread crumbs? Of course. But I will take some parmesan on the top. All righty. Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to have the butternut squash Agnolotti.

Excellent. Oh, that does sound good. That's the opposite. You ordered a really healthy pasta. You were withholding a lot. This does not withhold anything. There's to, there's a lot of knotty confidence butter. It's beautiful, it's like pockets.

It's what it is. Exactly, it's stuffed with squash and mascarpone. Lot of butter, right? Yes, a lot of butter. I have to get on a plane. What does that have to do with it? No, I mean. Stop making excuses, I have to get on a plane.

No, but I think the fusilli looks good. I think it's gonna be great. No bread crumbs. And the Agnelotti. Thank you so much. Thank you. Are you guys enjoying the eggplant? Oh, this is extraordinary. It's great.

So, but anywho, you know, the beautiful part of Lily, you know, the love of her life played by the great John Hickey. Love him so much. How good, he's so lovely. He's so good. He's effortless. He really is. He did an episode of Modern Family.

He played the therapist to one of the kids and it was this really long, basically like a four page scene where there was no jokes. And it was actually the first time that, you know, we were learning about this Ariel Winters character, like just the difficulty she's having as like a middle child. And it was just, she was just bouncing these ideas

off of John and it was such a beautiful scene. And it really stood out she was bouncing these ideas off of John. And it was such a beautiful scene. And it really stood out. It's just some, I mean, there were jokes eventually, but like it went on a long time without a lot of jokes. It was just all emotion. And I was like, wow, what better person to do this than John? Yeah. He's just, he's sexy as hell.

Oh, he's so sexy. He's so sexy. Yeah. He's such a gentleman. And he's a man who carries heavy thoughts. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great cast.

I mean, I learned so much about her, though. She came into my conscious when she was being talked about on the campaign trails in 2008. I didn't really know too much of her history and where she came from with Goodyear Tires and just how she, can you sort of explain her backstory? I mean, look, at 40. So, you know, this is the beauty of women.

Sometimes they're just getting started at 40, 50, 60. I find these stories so inspiring, by the way. And so she said, listen, there was an opening to start in at ground level, lug and tires, which I did on a few occasions. And I have to say, yes. Not in real life. Yes.

Well, in real life, but on set. When she caused trouble and they put her back on the line at 60, when I was shooting this, I was, what, 62, I thought, they need an ambulance standing by. Like, I mean, I'm gonna need help getting home after lugging tires for one day, and she was doing that five days a week. Wow.

So she, but she decided, I want a better life for my children, and there was an opening that paid a lot of money. It was the highest paying job in the county. And she started working at Goodyear. And some really good whistleblower, some good Samaritan, some good citizen passed some records to her to let her see after she had been there for 20 years, working brutal shifts, night shifts, giving up time with her children. You know, she struggled with her son,

it's not quite in the movie, but she sacrificed everything for this job. And to think that she was paid 40% less than the men. Doing the exact same job. She fought in every way, shape and form, and then winning the lawsuit and then having it taken away from an all-male jury. I mean, she suffered the blows,

and that's when really great politicians stepped in and said, wait, this woman is remarkable. Like, why are we not championing her? Yeah, and some of her loudest champions were women. Yeah, they're all, most. I mean, there were men, there were great men, and you know. But she was a survivor, and she knew, I know her daughter, too, I know Vicki.

I didn't meet, this was all planned, because I didn't want to play her, I wanted to just be her. And I realized the greatest tribute and ode I could give her was to just try to become her and not meet her and be filled with playing this and that. And of course I did my research. And she was very cool with this. And she was very happy with what I did, which I'm very thankful. We debuted it at the Hamptons,

and she died two days after we debuted the film. So you never got to be there. I was going to meet her in the Hamptons for the first time. We had a big interview set up. But she fell very ill. But her daughter, I had the privilege of meeting her daughter Vicki in real life, who is one of the greatest human beings.

Yeah. That apple falls so close to that tree. It's very emotional for me because... they're just really great people. And she gave up a lot to be the great person she is. It did not come without sacrifices. But meeting Vicki was very emotional for me. And then to learn where we're all there

in the Hamptons that she had passed was brutal. I mean, brutal. My phone started blowing up from everybody. And it was brutal. I mean, brutal. My phone started blowing up from everybody. And it was hard. It was a really tough time. But she will live on. You know, I'm going to take this everywhere. We're doing a beautiful premiere in New Orleans, L.A., New York. We have the support of so many women, like the women who supported her. You know? so many women, like the women who supported her.

Well, you know what, I also loved it for, obviously, the historical reasons, but there's something very accurate about how change gets made. And I think it's really important for people to see, first of all, that we can do anything. Yes. Anyone can do anything. Well, I mean, a woman from Possum Trot, Alabama,

okay, that lived with only an outhouse. Yeah. An educated, you know what I mean? Coming from a very specific family, a mother who was tough. Yeah, yeah. But also, it takes time and it's hard. Yes.

And it takes a lot of, oh my goodness. No bread crumbs. Thank you. Thank you. I can unload oh my goodness. Justin, no bread crumbs. Thank you. Thank you. I can unload you. I appreciate it. Thanks so much. Thank you. Thank you.

But it takes a lot of work too and like there's going to be a lot of points where roadblocks are put up and you know Justin, my husband and I did the same thing with marriage equality and like it was actually visiting face to face with a lot of these people and it takes a lot of time, it takes a lot of emotional energy, it takes. It takes everything. It takes everything and it takes it out of you. And you're met with a resistance sometimes more often than you are with open arms.

Oh yes. But to see someone succeed like Lily did and make progress and see how hard it was and see how many times she was told no. No, so many times. It's important, that's why I think the story is so beautiful and important. And I think, you know, it gives,

people just don't know, you know, equal pay for women was really in the crosshair. I mean, it really wasn't an easy thing at all. People didn't believe it. Yeah, yeah. And we're slightly back to that now. Yeah, no we aren't. They hired her because they thought she could do it.

Yeah. And I think they looked to her to become a manager and she did. You fought her way up. Right. Like anybody else, like any man. Mm-hmm. But I think that's an important point you brought up is that change is grueling. Well, you must be so proud of the film and I'm just so glad that you got to make it.

I'm so glad it exists and you're so wonderful in it. You're always fantastic in everything you do. When they said, oh, Patty, you're going to play her from 40 to 73, I was like, oh. You know? When they said, oh, Patty, you're going to play her from 40 to 73, I was like, oh. You know? Yeah. I was always just, you know, what age am I today? Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now for a quick break, but don't go away.

When we come back, Patricia tells me about her role as eccentric Aunt Sarah on the HBO classic Six Feet Under, and I share some fun tea on Golden Girls icon Bea Arthur. Okay, be right back. This episode of Dinners on Me is brought to you by Nissan. These days it feels like the world and our lives are moving at hyper speed. I mean, that's why I love doing this podcast. It's a chance to slow down,

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What's not to love? So thanks again to Nissan for sponsoring this episode of Dinners on Me and for reminding us to take a moment and breathe. Learn more about the all-new Nissan Murano at NissanUSA.com. Panoramic moonroof, ambient lighting, and massaging leather-appointed seats are optional features. Seats are optional features. Hey podcast listeners, I'm Chris Morocco, food director of Bon Appetit and Epicurious and host of the Dinner SOS podcast. Every week on Dinner SOS, my Test Kitchen colleagues and I help listeners figure out what they should be cooking right now.

And this winter, we're helping you embrace all things cozy cooking, letting you join the BA Bake Club, and getting back to basics with simple strategies to level up your home cooking. So don't miss out. Listen to and follow Dinner SOS wherever you get your podcasts. And if you have your own kitchen question, email us at dinnersosatbonappetite.com. Happy cooking. And we're back with more Dinners on Me. I mean, you've got to play some pretty remarkable roles in your career. And that's feeling... But I've played a lot of unsavory ladies.

No, you have. I mean, I've poisoned my children. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not poisoning poison my children. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not poisoning anybody. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay? I'm not killing anybody. Well, I mean, this would also struck me.

I'm not a drug addict. Yeah, yeah. True, true. You're clean. Because I've played a lot of drug addicts. You have. And yet I've never done any drug in my whole life. I've never even smoked pot.

I've never been high. Really? Never been high. Really? No. But the day is young. You guys enjoying the food? Yes. Oh the day is young. We should go out and have a ball. You guys enjoying the food? Yes.

Oh, nice. Mommy needs a refill. Yeah. They're going to kick me off the plane. The pilot's going to be excusing us for removing a lady from the plane. We have to circle back to the gate. We have to circle back. We have an unsavory passenger.

But acting is a drug to me. I can't imagine drinking or doing drugs on stage and then performing. That would be antithetical to me. Yeah. After, yes. Yeah. This is an anecdote that.

Oh, God. About Bea Arthur. I don't know if you've ever heard this. She would, during Golden Girls, she would do reshoots. So they would film the show, and then they would let the audience go. And this is Christopher Loy told me this story, who was one of the creators of Modern Family and then also worked on Golden Girls.

And he said that they would let the audience go and then they would do some pickups and reshoots. But at that point, once the audience was gone, they would loosen up a little bit and Bea always liked to have a drink. A drink, yeah. So they would get her a drink and sometimes the reshoots would take a while

and she'd have more than one. But she always drove herself to the lot and she would drive home. And they were getting nervous like on some of these days where they stayed a little longer, like, you know, it might not be super safe for her to drive home. So this poor PA had to like go, they like put on someone else, like go tell Bea

that we need her to be careful about, you know, the drinking after, after the reshoots. So this poor PA goes over to her and he's like, you know, Bea, I'm just worried about, you know, because she would take her drink to go with her in the cup holder. Oh my God. That's New Orleans life.

I know, right? So they say, you know, Bea, we're just nervous. Your car's very low. And if someone came up and drive next to you, they'd be able to see. And it's just, I just worry. Oh my God, oh my God. She's just like, oh no, I understand,

I completely get it, totally understand. So the next week she arrives to set in a higher car. Oh my God. Oh my God. I just love her so much, I love her so much. But I'm obsessed with The Golden Girl. Oh, me too. I'm obsessed.

It's just the comedic scenes from Will and Grace, from your show to Golden Girls, it's just brilliant acting. Well written. Well written. But you rise to that and you lift it above sitcom because nothing is that good. The other sitcoms are very good but they're not that. That's a certain level. Thank you. I mean the lovely beautiful man who plays your husband on the show. Eric Stonestreet. Yeah, Eric Stonestreet. I mean the two of you. Yeah. I mean you're

kismet. You're match made in heaven. I agree. And just you're yin and yang, and it just fills me with such joy. You know, I saw Meghan Malali last night in Man of Fear with her gorgeous breasts and full display. She said, Pat, Patty, can you stand up? I can't keep bending over, my boobs are going to fall out. You know, she's so beautiful, Meghan Malali, and just glorious and gorgeous, and I can't keep bending over, my boobs are gonna fall out. And you know, she's so beautiful, Megamalali, and just glorious and gorgeous,

and I hadn't seen her in a while, and I just worship her too, you know? I mean, at that time that Will and Grace was on, that was kind of the time that Six Feet Under happened, right, which was like, you know, Will and Grace was the buzzy comedy, and Six Feet Under was the drama everyone wanted to be in. And I was given Aunt Sarah this crazy part to play the sister. It was just such a crazy shoot.

I would fly in. Everybody thought I was a regular, but I wasn't. I would just fly in. Well, you won two Emmys for it. I did. I know, I know. But that's the writing. Yeah, yeah. And the directing. Yeah. They had, and the actors that I was surrounded with, Franny Conroy, you know, Kathy Bates. So when the three of us would work together, they'd call, they'd say, get the three tenors on set. That was a blessing.

It was such a massive, huge hit in a time where streaming didn't exist. You waited every week for the new episode. I remember boarding that train early. I watched Six Seat Under from the very beginning. The moment I had access to HBO and I rode that train all the way to that brilliant finale. I mean, that was brilliant. I would get these scenes and sometimes, you know, as a crazy aunt, I had these things

and I thought, oh, surely they're going to cut this down and they're going to rewrite it. But a lot of times what I got on the page stayed and I just learned it. I'd run it and learn my monologues and they were just like, stayed. And I just learned it, I'd run it, learn my monologues and they were just like, hmm. You know, it's just was, it's like Richard Gray, when you have, when writing is great, it just.

Yeah. It comes easier, you memorize it easier. You do, it doesn't take a toll on you, the way when you're trying to make something work. Yeah. No, you're right. I remember working on a few projects in Modern Family with not being one of them, but you really do feel like you're shoving a square peg into a round hole trying to memorize something

and make it work. I feel like now there's a lot more playwrights who are working in television, and I'm so glad that they are. Beautiful. Many more people in the theater are coming to television and to movies, which is thankful, because they understand arc and character. And that's what great writing does. When I was going back through all these films

that you've been in, so many of them I'm just like, but no, no, Patricia. I mean like, Easy A and Station Agent and you know, just great, great films. I went back and I watched High Art and I saw some of your early stuff, which I, you know, obviously love. But there was that moment where it was like, it was Station Agent and Pieces of April, which were nominated for Oscar for. And it was just like all this incredible.

Just beautiful. But that was Bingham Ray, that was independent cinema, that was Sundance really was on fire. You were labeled the Sundance queen. I mean, the independent cinema was alive and well and kicking and really powerful. And it still is. Look at the win of Anor last night. Anor was an independent film in its own way.

But I was lucky I hit the jackpot when it was on fire. It's a career I greatly look up to and admire. My mother was just like, Patty, what are you playing this time? And I'd be, and I'd be, and I'd be, and I'd be, and I'd be,

and I'd be, and I'd be, and I'd be, and I'd be, and I'd be, and I'd be, and I'd be, and I'd be,

and I'd be, and I'd be, and I'd be, and I'd be, and I'd be, and I'd be, and I'd be, and I'd be,

and I'd be, and I'd be, and I'd be, and I'd be, and I'd be, and I'd be, and I'd be, your cooking was fabulous. And no, no, no. I meant to ask, would you like to look at dessert? I'm okay, do you want something? No, no. Thank you, thank you so much. What's your name? My name's Nick.

I'm Patty. It's so nice to meet you. Pleasure's all mine. Really, really nice to meet you. Thank you, Nick. Thank you, Nick. Thank you. it? Alaphonte. Alaphonte. I think my friend Nick is working. I'm so glad you fit us in while you were here. Oh, no, no, no, no.

Are you kidding me? It's gonna be, the red eye's gonna be downhill. But I'm, thank you. Of course, thanks for doing this. I really love you so much. I'm, what a privilege. It really, really is. I just simply think the world of you. Just dinner by the sea with Patty Clarkson.

With all the sun setting in the background. What could be better? Nothing. I know. Look at this. It's very romantic. It is. Should we make out? Yeah, maybe we should. I'm definitely paying for dinner if that's the case.

Dinner's on me. Ha ha ha. This episode of Dinner's on Me was recorded at Elefante in Santa Monica, California. Next week on Dinner's on Me, you know him from the queer rom-com Bros, the leading man on countless Hallmark classics, and now as the host of Hallmark Plus's home renovation show, Home is Where the Heart Is, it's Luke McFarlane. We'll dig into our 20-year-long friendship, can you believe it, the impact of gay visibility

on television, parenthood, and so much more. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners on Me Plus. As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad-free. Just click Try Free at the top of the Dinners on Me show page on Apple Podcasts to search your free trial today. Dinners on Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch.

Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Alyssa Mitcaf. Sam Baer engineered this episode. Hans-Dale Shee composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tamika Balanz Kalasny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week. All right, let's talk about something near and dear to my heart.

Building the perfect sandwich. And yes, yes, I take this very seriously. Step one, you need a great bread. Fresh,, yes, I take this very seriously. Step one. You need a great bread. Fresh, crusty, something with character. Step two. Boar's head oven-gold turkey. Always.

It's juicy. It's flavorful. It's the backbone of this operation. Step three. A few slices of Boar's head smoke master ham because I like to mix it up. It adds a slow smoked beechwood flavor that makes your taste buds just do a little dance. Step 4. Cheese.

Sharp cheddar if I'm feeling bold. Creamy Swiss if I'm feeling fancy. Step 5. A swipe of Dijon. Crisp lettuce. Thin sliced tomato. And maybe a pickle or two for drama. Layer it all up.

Cut it in half diagonally, obviously, and you got a sandwich that's perfectly crafted thanks to Boar's Head. Every bite tastes like it was made with carrot because it was. So if you're ready to level up your sandwich game, trust me, start at the deli counter. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite at your local Boar's Head Deli Counter. Boar's Head. Committed to craft since 1905.