Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - PAUL FEIG — on basing “Freaks and Geeks” on his life and how “Bridesmaids” almost wasn’t

Episode Date: October 8, 2024

“Jackpot” director Paul Feig joins the show. Over martinis, Paul tells me about being a tour guide at Universal Studios, how Judd Apatow was a big support in getting “Freaks and Geeks” made, and how “The Office” was tweaked for American audiences.  This episode was recorded at The Benjamin in Hollywood, CA. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's the feeling of fall? It's finally catching the sunrise. And not because you woke up early. No, you woke up nice and late. And you know what? The sun waited. Then you went and got what you love from Starbucks. The new pecan crunch oat latte and new baked apple croissant. And enjoyed that warm apple filling and those nutty flavors with rich brown buttery notes while the sun rose just for you. That's the feeling of fall and it's only at Starbucks.

What does possible sound like for your business? It's having the spend to power your scale with no preset spending limit. Redefine possible with Business Platinum. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms and conditions apply. Visit amex.ca slash business platinum. Hi, it's Jesse. Today on the show, you know him as the creator

of the cult classic Freaks and Geeks, and from his blockbuster comedies, including Bridesmaids and most recently Jackpot, it's Paul Fiegg. It's a unicorn moment when something you do works, everybody loves it, gets all this press, but then the downside is nobody watched it. This is Dinners on Me,

and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Paul Feig is a director and a writer who I greatly admire. I mean, I challenge anyone to argue that Bridesmaids isn't one of the most iconic, hilarious comedies of the past few decades. I have been a fan of his for such a long time, but I've never actually met him. But strangely, over the past few months,

the name Paul Feig has been consistently orbiting around me. A few weeks ago, my friend, Busy Phillips, was recounting a story of her time working with Paul on Freaks and Geeks, which was his big breakout in Hollywood. Aquafina was just on this podcast to promote the most recent Paul Feig film, Jackpot, which is available right now on Amazon Prime Video. It's hilarious. Also, a few weeks ago, I was sitting next to someone on a flight who was watching Spy with the brilliant Melissa McCarthy. I decided to plug in my headphones and turn it on too because I was getting FOMO. I highly

recommend it. It's a great, great film. Paul just seemed to be everywhere and I definitely clocked it. Paul's career has a fascinating trajectory. I know for being an actor how hard this business can be and how discouraging it often is. There are one million reasons to quit and try and do something else. But what I love about Paul is that he kept himself malleable to try out different aspects of the entertainment business. From acting, to stand up, comedy, to writing, to directing. It's so gratifying to see someone finally click into that spot that they were always

supposed to be. I just find it incredibly inspiring. Oh, look at Dapper. He exceeded expectations with the suit. How are you? I brought Paul to the Benjamin in Hollywood. Although the Benjamin is just a few months old, it gives off a very well-earned old Hollywood glamour.

Its dimly lit dining room has green velvet booths, there's art deco light fixtures and wood paneling on the walls. You could totally see Humphrey Bogart hanging out here. And I thought it was a perfect place for Paul because if you have ever seen a picture of Paul on the red carpet, he's what I would call a dapper gentleman. He has a preference for suits and isn't scared of a pop of color. You see him and you just, you smile. He's also a martini aficionado

and after one look at the cocktail menu, I knew that this was the spot to take him. Okay, let's get to the conversation. I just texted Melissa McCarthy to say I'm sitting down with you. Oh good. She's the best. I know.

I haven't talked to her in a little bit. Yeah, she mentioned that. Yeah, I know. I know. I've been out of town. I was in Italy for six months. Were you? Yeah.

What were you doing in Italy? Shooting Simple Favor 2. Oh, incredible. Very excited about that. Yeah. Really enjoyed Simple Favor 1. Oh, thank you. This one came out pretty great.

I'm actually really happy with it. That's really exciting. And that was all in, you shot the whole thing in Italy or that's incredible. Roman Capri. Wow, unbelievable. I just got back because I was, I went to the Democratic National Convention

and then from there I went to do a reading of a Truman Capote play in Morocco. Oh, wow. So yeah. Nicely done. Oh, man. Hitting the ground running with you. Yeah. Oh, I'm jealous that you were at the convention. Yeah, it was really incredible.

No, it's funny, when I was younger, I always debated whether I should go into politics or not. But I- Well, you did speech and debate in school, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mostly speech and forensics. That's what I did too. Yes, exactly.

I was not confrontational enough for debate. No, I wasn't either. But when people ask me like what forensics was, because I mean it's- Well, they always think we did like autopsy or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was, for me, I didn't have a theater program in my high school.

I went to a Catholic high school. You also grew up in Christian Science. Yeah, Christian Science, yeah, my parents. So when I discovered that there was this thing that I could kind of do on my own, like I only needed, they only needed one interested person to be in the club. Totally, no, that's how I like about it too.

And it was like, that was great about forensics. You just needed a script. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you could do all the characters, you know, you find about it too. And it was like, that was great about forensics. You just needed a script. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you could do all the characters. You know, you find your points. That character looks over here. This character looks over here. We were ahead of our time, right?

We really were. We really were. Tell me about growing up Christian science. Yeah, it was interesting. I mean, you know, I don't practice anymore, obviously. But no, I mean, honestly, it's sort of a religious version of New Age philosophy. Really, it's all heal yourself, I mean, honestly, it's sort of a religious version of new age philosophy, really. It's all heal yourself, you know,

and kind of take the power back and all that stuff. So in a way, it was good because I didn't grow up just being inundated with drugs every time you were sick or, you know, all that. So you did, I have a really good immune system because of it. But, you know, it was, my father eventually succumbed to,

lost his eyesight to diabetes, then he got Parkinson's, and he didn't diagnose with them for a long time, and so that, those took him down. My mom never went to the doctor, and she just like died immediately one day, just from a heart attack, and she had a cough for a while. My wife kept saying like, you should, you know, get that looked at, oh, I'm doing my work, you know, which means in Christian science You're reading the books and praying and all that stuff. So so it's kind of you know, you know

It's all well-meaning. Yeah, but still we do live in a modern world with with modern medicine. Yeah. Yeah for sure But I have a soft spot for just because it's what you grow up in. Absolutely. I mean I You know, I like I said I was raised in a Catholic school. I was certainly informed a lot. Hi. That's so cool. Hi Rachel. Hi there. Okay, welcome to Benjamin. Thanks so much, I've never been here before.

It's so beautiful. Nine weeks, it's only been open nine weeks. Oh, you're kidding. Yeah, brand new. Wow, I mean, I got here at 5.30 and there's already a list in there. Do you have a reservation? So it's very popular.

Pretty exclusive, we like to keep the riff-raff out. No. Well, I got in somehow, so exactly, we snuck in. Welcome, my name is Rachel, I'll be taking care of you this evening. Can I get us started with a bottle of Stiller Sparkling Evian or house filtered water? I'm happy with house water.

House water's good for me. Beautiful, I'll be right back with that while you look over our cocktail list. We have a few martinis. That's all I care about. If you guys like some cocktails. We also have a lovely list of non-alcoholic beverages as well.

We'll give you a moment to look over that. I'll be right back with some water for you. Perfect, thank you. Thank you so much. I heard you were a cocktail guy, so I thought this would be. Yes, this works out perfectly. Do you fancy yourself a mixologist?

Yeah, you know, yeah, I'm not great at it, but I actually wrote a cocktail book. Did you really? Yeah, well, I had a mixologist? Yeah, you know, yeah, I'm not great at it, but I actually wrote a cocktail book. Did you really? Yeah, well, I had a, during the pandemic, I did a daily cocktail show. I knew about this. Yeah, and then it just turned into this big guide of how to throw a cocktail party,

how to stock your bar, and then stories about me from my past and funny stories about cocktails. So it's really fun. It's called Cocktail Time, The Ultimate Guide to Grown-Up Fun. So, but you know, my mixology skills are low. I specialize in making kind of easy drink and funny stories about cocktails. So it's really fun. It's called Cocktail Time, the Ultimate Guide to Grown-Up Fun. But my mixology skills are low. I specialize in making kind of easy drink

because I mean, I just have such great regard for bartenders. Chrissy Teigen does this thing called For One Fair Wage and it's a big fundraiser where celebrities join the staff of a restaurant and help wait tables and bartend. And you get fired immediately. Basically, I don't know why they let me stay.

Gosh. And that was the closest I got to bartending. But it did make me think about one of your first jobs, being a tour guide in Universal, because I felt like when I was doing that job, I dreamed of being on Broadway. That was my goal. And I began, I got to work in a Broadway house. I was doing that job, I dreamed of being on Broadway. That was my goal. And I began, I got to work in a Broadway house.

I was still removed from the actors. I didn't tend to come go through the stage door, but like I was around the actors and I felt like I was part of the community. And I kept thinking about like you being a tour guide at Universal Studios kind of in the same way. Hey, Rachel, come, come in, come in. We're thirsty. Hey, Rachel, come, come in, come in. Oh, come on in, exactly.

We're thirsty. Yeah, exactly. I'm gonna have a martini. I'm gonna do a non-alcoholic, I'm gonna do the in a groany. Nice. I'm gonna do a Ford's gin martini. Up with a twist and very dry. Just like a wash of vermouth.

Awesome. Thank you. Thank you very much. Wow, all this great stuff. up with a twist and very dry, just like a wash of vermouth. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. Wow, all this great stuff. This place looks great. Yeah. But I was thinking about how like, when I first moved to LA, like going beyond those gates of a studio,

I mean, that was in and of itself, like incredibly difficult to actually get inside there. Yet if you're a tour guide, you know, it's like you get sort of the keys to the kingdom without, you know, necessarily all the perks. I mean, what was that, did you at that moment know that you wanted to work in Hollywood? And did that feel like a big deal that you were?

I've always had this weird romanticism about everything to do a showbiz. So then coming out to California, into Hollywood, times that by a thousand. You know, and I get this job as a tour guide in Universal Studios and I'm on the back lot, which I had taken the tour when I was a kid. So suddenly I'm there.

And how old were you when you did that? The tour the first time I was probably about six or seven. And then as a tour guide? The tour guide I was 17. Wow. Yeah, 17 years old. You were still living in Michigan at the time. Yeah.

So this was like a summer job? Yeah, I finished my freshman year of college and then got the job for the summer. And then when I was doing the tour guiding, I found out about USC Film School and went back to my sophomore year back in Detroit, then applied to USC Film School and have never left since. Right. But the funny thing about being a tour guide was and went back to my sophomore year back in Detroit and then applied to USC Film School and never left since.

But the funny thing about being a tour guide was we all kind of thought we were gonna get discovered and then a lot of the people on the tour thought they were gonna get discovered. So you'd have like tourists and then you always have a few people that were dressed really nice. Like these girls were dressed really nice in dresses.

I'm like, oh, you think the same thing. And I was like, aha, you guys. And it was as far away from reality for me as it was for them. What was the process of getting that job? Was it something you had to audition for? It was interesting, because I had give you the briefest version of the story.

I was in Michigan, wanted to get in the show biz. It was all I cared about. My dad had a friend who worked out in Hollywood who was a manager. He used to run The Voice of America and then he was a manager. And so he got him to send me a copy of Variety. And in Variety they used to have once a week this production guide. It had all the studios and their contact numbers. So I just started calling all the studios and going like, hi, do you need an actor? You know and they're like, well no we need a CPA or we need a lawyer or this and that. So I called every single studio and finally the last one I

called was Universal and they're like, well we need tour guides. I'm like, I know that I've been on it. And they go like, well if you can get out here in two days that's when the audition or whatever, the meeting, where you're gonna. And it's like, okay so I had my finals that next day, so I told my next door neighbor, I said, I'm taking my finals, I get home from that, we're getting in the car, we're driving straight through to California.

So, yeah, so he and I got and drove straight through and did it like 36 hours or something. And yeah, I got in and did the audition, or it was a big room where they kind of had us all stand up and do different things, and then they were like, basically said like, okay, we want to put you into the training program under one condition, you have to lay out in the sun

and get rid of your acne and get a tan. What? Because I was so pasty and so broken out. And so I did, and it was a two week training program, and then I got the job and I just thought it was the greatest thing ever. That is incredible. That is unbelievable, I love it so much.

And I wanted to be a standup comedian at the time so it was like, it's actually kind of great. I actually that summer learned how to work on a mic because when I first started I would just, hey everybody, it's great to talk to y'all. I was doing this like weird DJ thing. I remember like halfway through the summer some driver goes like, why do you talk like that?

I said, oh, aren't you supposed to? He goes, no, just be yourself. And I did, I just suddenly just kinda started making jokes with myself and felt very comfortable after that. I was so interested about being an actor and a famous comedian back then. And then, you know, slowly over the years kind of. The goal back then when I went to film school

was to write, direct, and star. Was there someone that was doing that that you felt like, oh, I want to emulate that, a career like that? Well, it was Woody Allen, it was Albert Brooks. There was just a couple of people who did it. And you're just like, wow, they can do that. I didn't know you could actually do that.

And then went into standup when I got out of film school and then became an actor for 15 years and was a character actor for about 15 years. And then it was really, it wasn't until I was on Sabrina the Teenage Witch, where I finally was on a hit show. And then at the end of the first season, they said we're gonna write Yuff.

Yeah, I definitely wanna talk about that. Yeah. I find it really interesting this immediate pivot from film school to stand-up comedy. If you told me I had to be a stand-up comic for even five minutes, I think I would have it fall on panic attack. What made you want to take that route? I also know, it was sort of the era of when, you know,

sitcoms were being developed around huge comedies like Roseanne and Tim Allen and, you know. Red Butler and all that. Yeah, exactly, yeah. No, I always say this, because most people feel like, oh my God, stand up, I could never do that. If you feel that way, you're never gonna do stand up.

But there is a type of personality that says, I wanna do that. You know, it's like what you're talking about with forensics, how all you need is yourself. And there's something so pure about stand-up, because if you've got a microphone in an audience, you're set. That's all you need and that's all you.

So, as someone who eventually became a director and a writer and all that, it's all because of stand-up. I learned the ins and outs of an audience, the ebb and flow of an audience, thank you. That is gorgeous. Yeah, look at this beautiful martini just landed. There we go, thank you. Beautiful.

You know, and then you hear what they laugh at, you hear what they don't laugh at, we shoot a bunch of extra jokes and trade them in and trade them out. It's exactly how I used to develop a stand-up routine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cheers. Cheers. There we are, we did it.

There you are, dapper. Thank you. We're refined gentlemen. We are, look at us. Aren't we fancy? Yeah, it's incredible. So I hope we had a little bit of time to look over the menu.

Did you look, Paul? I glanced. So we have Chef Johnny Starelli in the kitchen, formerly at Bestia above El and Spago here in LA. Oh, I didn't know that. Phenomenal chef. Wow, I can order. I'll do the hamachi crudo.

Perfect. And then I'll do the chicken, please. Wonderful. Let's get the Parker House rolls. Will you have some of that? I'll have one bite. And I'm going to, I'll try that orange chicken wing. Yeah, of course.

And if I do the whole roasted branzino, are they, will someone help me, like? I'll help you. I will help you. You know what I mean? It doesn't have the bone, is it all? It is deboned. You both have the head and tail on it. That's fine. mean? It doesn't have the bone, is it all? It is deboned.

You both have the head and tail on it. That's fine. And there's always a little bit of, we can't promise you that the bone doesn't sneak its way in there, but. If it's deboned, then I'm golden. That's what I was most worried about. You just want to dump the whole, everything.

Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I get it. Perfect. First thing to debone it this morning. There you go. And did we want to do any sides? Twice baked potatoes, some french fries, or broccoli, we need to share.

How about the endive salad? There you go, let's do that, that sounds healthy. Yeah, we're talking about- Stand up. So many things have happened. Oh yes. Stand up. So I do find that to be a very interesting pivot.

Were there people that you were coming up with, with other standups that we would know about that we were sort of meeting in that? Well, I was in the era of when Jay Leno was out there and Seinfeld was out there and Robin Williams. I mean, I got sabotaged by Robin Williams a couple of times when I finally got to be a performer of the improv. I still wasn't one of the main guys.

So you'd get a later spot. And I remember like once it was my time to get up and there's a full audience. I was like so excited. And they come up like, oh, you know, Robin just wants to get up and do a quick set first. I'm like, well, cool, Robin Williams. He did an hour.

Oh no. And he finished it, everybody left, except for one woman who was waiting for her husband to come back from the bathroom. And how long did you, was your act? I did it, I did it, like 15 minutes. Did you edit it on the spot? No, I was just like, you know what, I'm at the Improv,

Bud Freeman's listening in and out. You were so held hostage, if you will, by the Improv and the Comedy Store, because that's the place. That's where you're gonna get discovered, that's where you're gonna be a big shot.'s where you're going to be a big shot. So you had to do anything to stay in their good graces, to impress them.

And it was a fun time. It was exciting. But once you lose the spark for it, you either get out or you stay in and you're miserable. And I knew so many guys who'd been doing it for a long time who were miserable guys. Like, I don't want to be that guy. Yeah, no, for sure.

I've been in those audiences where things start taking a turn and it turns negative and it's like, no one wants that. Oh, there they are. Incredible. They're dead. They're gonna have one bite. I'm gonna have to, I'm gonna pass one to Joe in and.

Oh, everybody should have one of these. Oh, oh. That looks incredible. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Paul gives us a scoop on casting freaks and geeks, which, as you all know, had an iconic cast. And a key trait, Paul says, is so important to have a long career in showbiz. Okay, be right back.

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And we're back with more Dinners on Me. I think that kind of feeling the urge to constantly scare yourself or put yourself out of your comfort zone, I think it is that thing that sort of keeps creativity alive. Well that's even, I mean, you know, you know, did Freaks and Geeks, created that and that was really cool, you know, and that was exciting, because we only did one season, which was depressing, but at the same time, it was cool, but even just doing those 18 episodes,

I was like, oh my God, like this is, it's, I don't know why you could call it, it was just exhausting, and what my problem with television was back then, it's kind of not the same way now, really, because everything's so limited really, but was always like to run forever. And it's why I love doing movies,

because like my brain just goes kind of haywire thinking like, season seven of something, you know. Right, you did mention it was canceled after one season, which, you know, I was part of a show when I first moved to LA called The Class. Oh yeah. Also 18 episodes, one season. Yeah, I remember that.

And it was a very big deal. And it was like, everyone was clamoring to be a part of the show. David Crane and Jeffrey Klerik, who were the creators of Friends and Mad About You, directed by James Burroughs, who had just come off of doing Friends and Will and Grace. The guy, the man.

Yeah, he's Cheers and he's an icon. And I had this incredible cast, Jason Ritter, Jon Bernthal who just won an Emmy for The Bear, Lizzie Kaplan who was on Freaks and Geeks. Yeah. You know, it was a very, very big deal. And I, when it didn't go and I saw it sort of crumbling underneath me, it's like, you know, we saw our ratings kind of diminishing. It was really, it was incredibly difficult, but at the same time, I still look back on that

and I was like, I consider it such a success. I mean, even though ultimately it was not renewed, I don't think the quality of the show was bad. I look at the company I was keeping in, it was very fancy and I think we've all gone on to do great things. What was it like to, first of all, have that opportunity for someone to say,

yeah, let's do it? Yeah, totally. It was huge. I mean, it was life-changing. I remember when they picked it up or whatever, when they bought it to, NBC bought it to make it into a pilot. I was in London at the time visiting friends

and I remember I was on the tube and had this little notebook and I wrote in the notebook, I think I'm about to get everything I've ever wanted out of my life, in my life. And it was kind of that, I was just like, I couldn't believe it, because I've been struggling for so long. So it was great, I mean, you know,

and I remember, you know, we, when the pilot, when the first episode came out, the reviews were unbelievable. They were just glowing, glowing reviews. And I remember just kind of like, I didn't even know, I was like, this is how it always is. And I remember Judd calling me up, Judd Apatow saying like, said, I want you to really enjoy this day.

And he sort of, he's shepherd. Yeah, he was, we were standups together forever. Met each other in the standup world. Yeah, yeah, I knew when he was 17 years old. And then he had had a deal at DreamWorks and was like, oh, if you ever have an idea, send it to me. And so I sent it to him and he kind of, he protected me through the whole process.

Yeah, but, you know, it was just like, I get what he meant because, you know, I've had other, I have movies that have gotten really great reviews, but you've had other times, you know, movies just get excoriated by the critics and they don't do that well. And you're like, oh God, this is really like, it's a unicorn moment when something you do works,

everybody loves it, gets all this press. But then the downside is nobody watched it. Or at least for then, nobody watched it. Hilariously, we had a base audience of seven million people every week, which now would be a giant hit. That would be a huge hit today. A giant hit, but back then it was the lowest rated show.

I know, it's crazy. Absolutely insane. And I just, I mean, I also know so many people revere that show so much now. No, it really stood the test of time in a way that I'm so grateful for. Right. Look, anything we do, the dream is people are gonna watch it

for until the end of eternity. And, but it never, that never usually happens. So the fact that this has been 20, it's our 25 year anniversary this month actually. And yeah, that it's still being watched. I went back to revisit, I watched it when it was on initially. I was one of your viewers.

Bless you, thank you sir. And went back to revisit, I watched it when it was on. Initially, I was one of your viewers. Mm. Bless you, thank you, sir. We had Bizzy Phillips, who's a dear friend of mine, on this podcast, so I went back to rewatch the series, and I just, I loved it so much. It's such a great show, and it really does withstand the test of time, and it's, you should be so proud of it. It's a real testament to not knowing a lot.

I had the hubris of somebody coming in like, we're gonna do this, and they're not gonna tell us that, and blah, blah, blah, and Judd fortunately protected me from the forces that were trying to stop us from doing that, trying to control it, and he just, he knew that I had this vision for it, and he had a great vision for it too. And so did our writers,

but really let me kind of do all this stuff. I mean, also that cast was so, and I think this has remained very true with a lot of your work. That cast was incredible. It was a big break for a lot of people. Yeah, definitely. You know, James Franco and Seth Rogen,

Busy Phillips, Linda Catalini. Yeah, Linda Catalini, yeah. Yeah, I almost lost her to another show. Oh really? Well, she was the one who, you know, when I wrote that show, it was all based on people I knew. Every character was kind of a thinly disguised version

of somebody I grew up with. But for the Linda character, for Lindsay, I wanted to invent my older sister that I didn't have, I was the only child, and I always wished I had an older sister. And so Lindsay is the older sister I always wanted. And so when Linda came in, you know, you're right with a vision

of somebody in your head, and I just kind of wrote it to this vision of this girl. And when Linda came into the room, I was just like, it rocked me back. I was just like, that's her. Like literally, that's the girl I was writing for who doesn't exist. Wow.

And she was fantastic. And then, you know, Judd and everybody else, oh, let's keep seeing people. I was like, no, this is her, this is her, this is her. And then at one point, Alison Jones called me up and said like, you know, somebody made an offer to Linda Cardellini for some other thing. And I went into panic mode, like, you get her, sign her,

I don't care, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so I got her, yeah. And, you know, she's just my hero. I love Linda. For sure. You've been so honest and upfront and very heartfelt about how hard the industry has been, the ups and downs for you, which I just find incredibly relatable and refreshing.

I think you talk pretty plainly about wanting to leave and not thinking, okay, this is it. I think what's, and I think every actor, every director, every writer experiences this to a degree, but after you have success, even though again, Freaks and Geeks was canceled, it was, I think, what I'd consider a great success, to then have things that really don't work out.

It's gotta be trying. And it's like, that's at least when I would start to question myself, like, oh, was that just like a my one trick pony? Oh, the imposter syndrome is huge. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, in Hollywood, I don't think in anything in life, but especially in Hollywood,

you never are comfortably successful. You achieve moments of success. I think I always say that you're only successful as your last job. 100%. And that's, you know, people are always like, oh, you're at the point now, you can do whatever you want. I was like, no, I can't.

There's so many things you can't get sold, so many things you can't get onto, things you want you can get onto, and things, you know, and it just, it is based on what, the last thing you did. A lot of times it's fortunately based on if you're a good person,

meaning that if you're not a pain in the ass, you know, and that's all, and I've been very lucky, I've worked with hardly any pains in the ass. But the pains in the ass is I know you're always like, be cool because you're riding high because you're successful. The minute you're not successful and you're an asshole,

people are gonna drop it. Oh, that's like good. It's my kryptonite is. Worn cheese for the men. Dish for the fun. I was gonna say, I think we need some, we may need some finger balls for this. Yeah, yeah.

Thank you. Oh my God, do you wanna try one of these? I do. Oh thank God. I have a chicken wing. Oh perfect. You are known for getting such great performances out of people and having a certain tone to your films.

But that really, I think, was set when, you know, you were able to do Bridesmaids. Would you agree or? Yeah, I mean, I don't say, I think I set my tone on freaks. Yeah, yeah. But then that was for TV. Yeah.

And it was kind of a smaller, when I learned, I learned a lot from doing Arrested Development in the office, to be quite honest. Right. Because, especially The Office, weirdly. But both of them were, much like your show, were docu, fake docus. And what that allowed you to do was,

you could tell very crazy, you have very crazy things happen in a realistic setting. And so I learned, as long as everybody is walking in the same world that we are, but they're extreme characters, or they're in some weird situation, if everybody buys it, if everybody acts like it's real, even if they're extreme, you can get away with anything.

But that's the tone. The tone falls apart when suddenly, somebody's like, hey,, even if they're extreme, you can get away with anything. But that's the tone. The tone falls apart when suddenly, like, somebody's like, hey, look out and we're, you know, or suddenly in service of a joke, the logic of the character falls apart. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Paul tells me about tweaking the sitcom The Office for American audiences and how he landed Bridesmaids after he thought it was dead as a doornail. Okay, be right back.

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And we're back with more Dinners on Me. Well, as you brought up The Office, I would like to talk about that for a moment because you directed a iconic episode of The Office. We've directed several episodes, but the one that you were kind of most known for and you won a DGA for is the dinner party, which is so many people's favorite episode of that show.

What is it like? And I would always talk to directors who would come into Modern Family and we're sort of this well-oiled machine and we're chugging along and then people sort of hop on for a week and direct the episode. What was it like to be a part of that show and in quite an instrumental way?

Well, it was fun. I mean, it's funny, my history with the office was long because actually it was offered to me to develop after for instance. Oh, interesting. Yeah, but it was the British one, but they were offering it to everybody. I mean, literally every showrunner in town, they were like, you want to take this on?

And I was just like, I'm not taking that on. That's like a iconic show. Right, right. Even back then, it was kind of this juggernaut for comedy people. Right. And so I was, no way. And I was a huge fan of Steve Carell,

because I was a big Daily Show fan, and he was so funny on there. But, you know, those first six episodes were really interesting, because Steve was trying to do Ricky's character. So he was a boar. He was really, you know, look, actually his hair's all slicked back, he's kind of greasy looking, and you know,

and he's really mean. Even though look, actually his hair's all slicked back. He's kind of greasy looking and, you know, and he's really mean. Yeah. Even though those, those, the weird thing about that was the very first episode, apparently, I don't know if it's true, but I think it was, is when Ricky sold it, he said the first, the pilot, the first episode had to be the exact script. Yes. And it was. I auditioned for that.

I auditioned for Dwight. I did not get it. But yeah, I remember like, I was like, oh, this is verbatim. And it was, but it was odd because even though everybody was really good in it, it was still, you know. You're using other, you're wearing other people's clothes. And it's British humor.

Yeah. British humor is very different. Here's how British, I break down British humor and American humor. Please do. Yep. This is my low rent scholarliness, comedy scholar. Because I've lived in Britain a long time.

The Brits love tearing down a boar. So they love when the lead character is an unlikable character because they love poking holes in those, and seeing those characters have a downfall. American audiences don't like that. They don't, they go like, they want to root for them. Yeah, is this my, this is my hero? Because I don't like this person and it drives them crazy.

And so they'll tune it out. They just won't watch it. That's a really good point. Yeah, so the first six episodes were, you know, and there, I mean, there's some really funny episodes in those first six. That diversity day one is one of the funniest episode on TV ever. But still, he was such a bore and so mean.

And I came on in the beginning of the second season when 40-year-old Virgin had just come out. And- Huge. Yeah, so Steve was this huge star all of a sudden. And they had this huge star in the show that they thought wasn't working, and it wasn't working in the ratings,

but when I was in there, and it was when we were doing Office Olympics, was I think the fourth episode or whatever, and now I can direct that, and it was the scene we were shooting when everybody was supposed to be working and they're screwing off doing this thing, and in order not getting in trouble with Michael,

they're gonna give him a gold medal. But we're shooting it it and Steve gets emotional. Steve as the character, and he's like, cause he's had this terrible day, and so he starts like kind of crying, like a tear goes down his eye. And we're like, oh my God. And I'm going like, do that again, do that again,

this is so great. And I think that was this moment of like, that's him, he's got a humanity about him. And everybody figured out, no, he can't, he's not an asshole, he's a misguided idiot who is an asshole because he's trying to be funny. So you go like, okay, he means well. And once the audience goes like, he means well,

then you're like, we'll follow him. You're golden, absolutely. And the whole show turned around and obviously became the giant hit that it is. That's so interesting. Yeah, so it's fascinating to me how the intentions of your lead character, it really defines if you're gonna be a hit or a miss

in movies and TV and anything like that. Yeah. How did the Bridesmaids script come to you? Cause I know it was written by Annie, say your last name for me. Annie. Annie Mummelo. Annie Mummelo. And Kristen Wiig. But it was in that time where you,

you know, you say yourself, you'd had a few things that didn't really hit. Well, what it was is I was doing, in that time where you say yourself you'd had a few things that didn't really hit. Well, what it was is I was doing, what turned out to be a very unsuccessful movie for Warner Brothers called Unaccompanied Minors, which was this Christmas kids movie. And right when I was in post, Judd called me up,

because Kristen was in it. It was the first movie she ever did. Oh, okay. She played, I mean, you blink and you miss her. She was the mother of one of the kids. And she was so funny. And I was a big fan of hers from SNL. But then Judd called me up,

because he knew how much I love working with female characters and trying to do female-led things. He was like, I got, Kristen and Annie wrote this movie, because Kristen was just in Knocked Up and stole the show and that. We said, I know you want to do a movie like this. So why don't you come to us, we're going to do a script reading of it.

But I remember just going like, oh my God, this is so great. Like there's so many roles, oh you're going to hang up this, roles for funny women in this. But you know, it needed a lot of work still. And so Judd was like, would you shepherd this? And I was in the middle post on this movie.

I had another movie that Warner Brothers was gonna do with me because they liked me so much before the movie came out. It bombed. So I was like, I don't have time, but I'm gonna give all of these notes. I'll give you all my notes. And then if they rewrite it, let me know.

Then literally like three or four years went by. And I would check in occasionally like, what's up with that wedding movies? Like, I don't know, I'm not sure, I'm not sure. And then one time I called him, he's like, oh, it's dead, for whatever reason it was dead. And oh my God, look at that. Nice.

There's your fish with his head. Look at that head. Looking right at you. Looking at me. Hey, sir. Without his eyes. Big bag like, hello to you, sir. Sorry that I've killed you. Thank you so much.

Roasted hot chicken for you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Beautiful. Beautiful. Yeah, so he was like, it's dead, it's dead. So I'm like, oh, that's a drag. So then in 2010, I get a call from my agency,

they go like, hey, you know that movie, that wedding movie is alive. I'm like, what? And they said, yeah, the director just fell out. And I was like, well, you know, Judd didn't tell me about it, so I don't, I think he's moved on, so I'm not gonna petition for it. They're like, we should.

I said, look, just put my name on the list with other directors and send it in, and if he wants it, he does. And literally five minutes later, the phone rings. He's like, all right, Fig, we're gonna do this. You gotta go meet with Kristen to make sure she's cool with it, and blah, blah, blah, blah. I was like, oh, shit.

Yeah, so I went and sat with Kristen. The next day, she just done, it was a Sunday, she was just done SNL, and she was like, yeah, I'd love for you to do it, and then suddenly I was on it. It was great. When you were making the film, did it feel different than anything else you'd made before?

Was there like less, do those things sort of feel the same until they come out and then that, the public decides whether or not they're. Yeah, unless a movie's going like a disaster, you're always like, this is great. Everything you make, I was like, nobody sets out to make a bad movie and nobody thinks they're making a bad movie either.

I mean, sometimes you're just like, everything's going wrong, which hilariously, those ones usually turn out to be big hits. Right, right, right. I just knew we were getting really funny stuff. Yeah, was the success, I mean, how much did the success of that at Bridesmaids mean to you? It was everything.

Yeah. It was everything, especially because, I've told this story before, so stop me if you've heard it, but we were predicted to not do well up until the day of release. That's a very interesting thing that studios do. They sort of project how many people are gonna buy tickets. And I don't know how they actually get these numbers, but.

I don't know, but they're almost always right, infuriatingly right. And you're like, oh my God. But this one was we were told, if this movie doesn't make $20 million opening weekend, it will be considered a failure. Which to me, now knowing what I know about the business, I'm like, the movie cost $32 million.

Like, fuck off, if we made $10 million, we would have been okay. But, you know, so they do a preview the night before, and it didn't do well, the midnight screening. So this call comes in the next morning, and they're like, well, the rejections are 13 million for the weekend, sorry, man. And I've been told for months,

another movie starring women all hinges on the success of this. And it's like, really, so I'm just about to kill movies for women, that's gonna be great. So I was walking around like dead men walking all day, like, we failed, we failed, we failed. But then that afternoon, there's a call like, well, it's actually they projected 15 million.

I'm like, well, that's still terrible. So I was like, call Melissa, Melissa, Ben, just come over, they live in our neighborhood. It's like, come over, we'll have dinner, and we'll just kind of lick our wounds together. And as we're at dinner, I'm getting these texts, they're like, it's looking like 18 million. It's looking like 19 million.

Actually 21, what? And then suddenly it's going like 22, 23, 24. I'm like, get in the car everybody. And so we all, Denna, Melissa, and Laurie, my wife and I, all jumped in the car and drove to the Arclight in Hollywood and walked into this theater and it was packed and rocking. And it was just like, we did it, we did it. And it was just, ugh.

It was such a validation for so many years of wanting this and being denied it and then having two movies that bombed so horribly that it was just like, I was in movie jail. My wife hates when I keep saying this because she goes, you're way out of it now, stop bringing it up. But at the same time, I was in movie jail. Nobody wife hates when I keep saying this because she goes, you're way out of it now. Stop bringing it up. But at the same time, I was in movie jail.

Nobody's gonna let me make a movie and I credit Judd for giving me that chance. And it was just wonderful. I just had Awkwafina on our show, AKA Nora. The greatest. And got to watch Jackpot for part of my research for that. And that is, let me tell you, that is an incredibly fun romp

It's bananas But also such a crazy premise of this. It's a dystopian future of LA Where the they have a lottery and if the lottery winner? Can make it to sundown without being killed they get to keep the money You can legally if you have a losing ticket, you can kill them and take the money. It's just bonkers. It's so nuts. And also, like I love, first of all, I have to tell you this.

I love that you use people over and over and over again. I love that Becky Ann Baker, who is a friend of mine. I've done several plays with her in New York, who is a mother in Freaks and Geeks, has a great part in Jackpot. Was this the first time you met Nora? No, I've been friends with Nora for about six years. She came to the premiere of Simple Favor with Bridget Everett and Murray Hill.

And I just was like, Murray Hill, who's also in. Oh my God, the greatest. How much do we love Murray? But I was a big fan of Nora's just because I loved her internet show and stuff, her YouTube show, and we just hit it off. It was just like, we gotta work on something. We gotta work on something.

And I was like, oh, I finally gotta work with Nora. And then when I was reading the script, it was like, you know, Rob Yescombe, when they had him redo it for Nora, he got her voice so perfectly. I was like, this is just a home run. And it was so much fun to do. I mean, now I can be happy because

we've been the number one movie worldwide on Amazon for four weeks in a row now, which is fantastic. But the critics excoriated us. I mean, took the biggest dump on this movie. And it's like, they were, all I can figure is like, from the reviews I read, I think they were trying to find a lot of meaning in this premise. I'm like, guys, the only reason I did this premise

is because it's a Jackie Chan movie. Like, it's just a launch pad for a very funny person to be completely in danger and not know what's going on. And then there's sweetness and you find out their backstories. But don't get mad at me because I didn't do some polemic on the state of America today. I don't want to do that. I'm a comedy guy. It's a pretty fantastic film. Thank you. I'm very proud of it. You should be.

There's Double Taper 2 coming up. Pretty fantastic film. Thank you. Yeah. I'm very proud of it. Yeah, you should be. Last- Uncensored paper two coming up. Yeah, that's coming up now. You're in post-production for that. Yep, almost finished. Very excited. It's the first sequel that you've done. Yep.

Which I'm excited about. Yeah, of all the, of anything I could've done a sequel for, I'm glad I did for this. Can I just add, I know that this year you celebrated your 30th wedding anniversary. It's next week.

Yeah. It's coming up, right? Yep. Congratulations. Thank you so much. It's next week. It's coming up, right? Yep. Congratulations. Thank you so much. It's very exciting. And just because of that, Dinner's on Me. What?

Oh my, Jesse, no, I didn't eat enough. I know it's not here, but Dinner's on Me. I know, oh my, thank you, sir. Of course, thanks for doing this. Oh my God, thank you so much. This is so much fun. This episode of Dinner's on Me was recorded at The Benjamin in Hollywood, California. Next week on Dinners on Me, you know him from animated hits like Frozen and musicals like

Book of Mormon, it's Josh Gad. We'll get into our time together on Broadway, his estrangement from his biological father, and why his daughter screamed while watching a Frozen movie. You won't want to miss it. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners on Me Plus. As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also

be able to listen completely ad free. Just click Try Free at the top of the Dinners On Me show page on Apple Podcasts to search your free trial today. Dinners On Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Angela Vang. Sam Baer engineered this episode. Hans-Dyl She composed our theme music. Our head of

production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tamika Balanz-Kolassny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.