Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - RACHEL BLOOM — laughing while grieving and surviving 'status dysmorphia’

Episode Date: October 29, 2024

Actor and comedian Rachel Bloom joins the show. Over Persian crispy rice and Moroccan spiced carrots, Bloom tells me about her new Netflix special “Death, Let Me Do My Special,” and we both laugh and get a little teary recalling people we’ve lost close to us. Plus, Rachel gets me in stitches talking about parenting paranoia.  This episode was recorded at Kismet in Los Angeles, CA. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Visit amex.ca slash business platinum. Hi, it's Jesse. Today on the show, you might know her from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend or her newest Netflix special, Death, Let Me Do My Special. It's Rachel Bloom. I'll read Dumois. I'm not part of that celebrity where I'm like, oh, what are the famous people doing?

What are they eating? Right, right. They're still a little separate in my head. This is Dinners on Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. MUSIC All right, musical theater nerds will always be drawn toward each other like magnets. There's just a deep comfort level we have around each other.

Even before we've outed ourselves as Sondheim aficionados or Apostles of Rogers and Hammerstein, if you're already lost, just stick with me. I promise this won't be too much inside baseball. See what I did there? I used a sports reference to ease anxiety. Rachel Bloom is one of those theater nerds. She also effortlessly brought musical theater

to the mainstream or at least the CW with her critical and cult hit musical comedy series, Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. I mean, that's when I fell in love with her. I mean, you can imagine I was like, wait, wait, there's another musical theater obsessed redhead on the backlots of Hollywood? I had to find her. And when I did, it was an immediate love connection. I have always, I don't know, felt a tad warmer when I'm around Rachel Bloom because I know the fabric

that she's cut from. It's the same as mine. And yes, that fabric is very glittery. Her new Netflix special, Death Let Me Do My Special, tackles grief, mortality, mental health and, yes, death. But all through the unique kaleidoscope perspective that is so specific to Rachel Bloom. Oh, I should also mention

that it's also miraculously hilarious, somehow walking that fine knife ridge between comedy and tragedy, between grief and healing. It's such a great special and it definitely took me off guard a bit. All right, I'm not really sure how to talk about this next thing. A few days before this meal with Rachel, my dear friend Gavin Creel, who's only a year younger than me, passed away after a short and brutal battle with a rare aggressive form

of cancer. He was an extremely loved member of the Broadway community. His passing was not only devastating to his friends and his family, but it sent an earthquake through an entire community of people who were touched by his work on stage. Now, I'm crying as I'm saying this. Obviously, I don't know if I'm fully ready

to talk about Gavin's passing so publicly. I mean, the whole thing is so fresh still. But after watching Rachel's special, I knew that if there was anyone to have a conversation about the grief of losing a close friend, it was her. You look so cute. I wanted to get a beard too. You are my beard. That would be an honor.

I prefer to get lunch with people with a restaurant entirely cleared out. With just people observing. We have observers. Yikes. Just a row of people observing us eat. I watch you eat. Let's see what she does next.

Oh my God, she's lifting her fork. I brought Rachel to one of my favorite restaurants in Los Angeles, Kismet. Now, if you live in LA and you are a fan of rotisserie chicken, seriously get in your car and get yourself to a Kismet Rotisserie ASAP. Besides their grab and go spot, Kismet Rotisserie, they also have their sit down James Beard nominated namesake restaurant Kismet in East Hollywood. I'm good friends with chefs and owners Sarah Kramer and Sarah Heimansson. Prior to Kismet, they ran a falafel concept called Mercapra inside Grand Central Market,

earning a spot on Zagat's 2015 30 under 30 list. And only a few months after opening Kismet, they landed on Food & Wine's Best New Chefs list. Kismet's menu is vegetable forward with Mediterranean, Middle Eastern, and Asian influences. I lose my shit over the Moroccan spiced carrots and the Persian crispy rice, also known as Tadig. When I found out Rachel lived on the East Side, I knew just the spot to take her. Okay, let's get to the conversation.

How are you? I'm good. It's been a really long time since I saw you. It's been a really long time since I saw you. It's been a really long time. I didn't know him, but I'm so sorry about Gavin Creel. Thank you. Thank you. I was actually wanting to talk to you about this because it's sort of serendipitous that

we're doing this because- We're talking about grief, I know. We're talking about grief. Did you know Gavin Creel? No. Here's the thing. I've met a lot of musical theater people. I really, for whatever reason, haven't met him.

But Thoroughly Modern Millie was my, I don't know a way to say this, doesn't make sense, it was like my breakup album. I would play Forget About the Boy in other ways, in the ways that other people played, I don't know, who's a band that everyone likes. Yeah, or like R Ariem or something. I was gonna say Korn, but that doesn't make any sense.

But like, that's how much he touched musical theater. He's just in everything I listen to. So I didn't know him. I'm reading all these posts. It sounded like he was a fucking saint. This is the thing that I'm sort of dealing with right now, or like, I guess finding comfort in right now. Gavin and I knew each other for 25 years.

Oh my God. We did hair together when it was at Encore, City Center Encore. Oh my God. When he had just moved to New York, and we know each other really, really well, and I am now realizing, as I'm reading all these posts, you know, how wide that net went with him

and how many lives he did touch. And I was talking with a friend of mine who also didn't know him very well. It was just so moved by the outpouring of love. And I think a lot of it was because it happened very quickly. He was diagnosed with this cancer nine, like basically 10 weeks ago. I didn't know this could happen.

I honestly didn't know there could be a cancer like this. That was this aggressive and fast. And to happen to someone who is so young and so full of vibrancy. And there was this moment, and I'm sure you felt this way as well, when you've lost someone dear to you. There's those moments, those days after,

and it's like, especially now with social media, you're like, I have to post something about it. And I did end up posting something, but it almost felt like I was like in this contest of grief with other people. That's so funny because one of, so, Aline, when we were on Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, my writing partner, Aline, had this joke

called ego obituaries, which are obituary that every woman, someone dies. They post about the person, but also it's like, and the further away you are, the longer the, right? So it's just like, I brushed Gavin Creel's hand at a bus stop in 1996. And from then on, right? No one's actually posted that, but Adam fucking, my friend Adam Schlesinger who died.

Yes, yes, which I'm gonna circle back to. He loved, he loved that so much. He was like, that's a new humble brag, ego obituary. And so when he died, Aline posted about ego obituary and there was a real thing with me of like, I don't wanna post an ego obituary because he'll be, I wanna make like, afterlife Adam laugh, but also I don't wanna, but he like, You don't want to post an ego biturier because he'll be, I want to make like after life Adam laugh but also I don't want to, but he like, he-

You don't want to fall into the trap. He had a real allergy for ego bituriers but I got to say everything about Gavin Creel that everyone's been posting and what you posted, it doesn't seem like that. It seems so personal. And this is the other thing that I was going to say that I'm sort of grappling with right now.

The only thing that's giving me comfort in like, I don't know, dealing with this is going to those posts and looking at the way he touched other people and just reminding myself that we all can live a life that way and be as open and generous as he was. That being said, I cannot click on a video of him right now. Like I can't see him. I went back to my old text exchange with him

and we have video exchanges and I can't watch them yet. But I've saved them, I made sure they're archived that I can go back to them later. But I was so excited because we are gonna talk a lot about Grief because your show is brilliant. Thank you. And now also, this is why I'm also glad you're here. So this is my friend Sarah.

Hi. Sarah Kramer, she and her other friend Sarah opened this place. Oh my God, I'm such a fan. I hear all the, we come here all the time. She and her other friend Sarah opened this place. And I was here. Oh my God, I'm such a fan. I hear all the, we come here all the time. But I want you to know this because musical theater fan, I'm sorry, I'm gonna put you on blast.

Oh my God. On blast, I love it. I have something to eat up. So Sarah told me a little piece of information about her when we got to know each other a little bit because she knows I'm a musical theater fan. Sarah was in- Also a participant. Mamma Mia on Broadway.

A long, long time ago. A long time ago. Many, many years ago. You've gone from Broadway to cracking the code Sarah was in Mama Mia on Broadway. Yeah. A long time ago. A long time ago. You've gone from Broadway to cracking the code of maybe the best chicken in Los Angeles. So lovely to have you. Oh my God. Nice to meet you.

Nice to meet you too. I truly come here, first time caller, long time listener. I was curious if you wanted something. Sure, yeah. I want something spark, do you want booze? I want something sparkling that's like not alcoholic. Ooh, I'm gonna do the same.

And that can be as simple as like sparkling water or like. We've got that, we've got Gia Spritz also. Oh, I love Gia. They're really nice. I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna do a Gia. That sounds perfect. Also we have some food coming for you.

Yeah, we do. We're gonna put together a little greatest hits for you. So sit back and it'll be here soon. I'm so excited. Yeah. God, okay. Well, you were talking, not, I was connecting to something you were saying earlier about Gavin, about not being able to watch a video. So the day Adam died, I was shocked. I mean,

because, you know, I found out, for those of uninitiated, but basically I gave birth to my daughter in late March, 2020. My daughter was in the NICU, which is the neonatal ICU during COVID, uh, as COVID was getting scary, you know, we didn't know what it was. The night I gave birth, I found out my songwriting partner Adam had COVID in New York and was on a ventilator. I found out both things in one night. He died a week after my daughter was born. So the day he dies, I am,

I'm inconsolable and I, and I'm getting all these lovely texts from people and I can't even look at my phone. And I handed my phone to my husband and I was like, can you just answer my text? And then it was the thing of like, I better say something on social media, but I couldn't fucking do it.

And so like, literally I think what I posted, I wrote something in a notes app and then I screenshot it and then I had my husband fucking do it. And so like, I literally, I think what I posted, I wrote something in a notes app, and then I screenshot it, and then I had my husband like post it. Like you can't even bear, and I couldn't look at videos of him for months. It was, when someone dies suddenly, it's, I, it's awful.

It's, I, it's off. Yeah, and I've never experienced that with someone so close to me. So I think it really took my breath away. And also just the fact that it was someone who was a contemporary and such a dear friend, you know, and also just had so much to still do. He was in the, he was in the middle, if not beginning middle of his career. I mean, a year ago, he was doing his own show in New York.

He had written his own show. But I mean, so I got an advance. So by the time this comes out, your special will be out. Oh, I'm good. I'm glad you got to see it. But I got to see it. Oh, great. But when it started, there was a voiceover,

and it's like, you see the date, February. So it's March 13th. March 13th, 2020. And we're like, OK, we're back in that place. And there was a moment, I was like, oh gosh, it's going to be, we're in COVID, but it's going to be one of those things. And I felt the same way around 9-11, too,

where it was such a traumatic experience. And it was like, when is it safe to wade back into those waters or when is it safe to acknowledge it? But the stuff that broke through was stuff that was done so beautifully and in such a clever way with such a light touch and it's kind of snuck in. And that's all I'm about to say, like that's what your special did with me for-

That makes me good. Just so you're not stressing out, like, oh God. I assumed you wouldn't be like, and'm about to say. Like that's what your special did with me for just so you're not stressing out. Like, oh God. I assumed you wouldn't be like, and I have to say, I thought it was gross and really heavy handed and no one should watch it. Thanks. When something awful happens, the easy thing is to go heavy handed and to be like, this is awful and revel in the awfulness, but you're not, what are you, why have you made the thing, I guess, because it's already, well, a couple things.

So when Adam, shortly after Adam died, I had written a book. I'd written a book when I was pregnant. And I put in the epilogue of the book something about Adam because it was weird to release a book in November, 2020, which was mostly written in 2018, 2019, and not mention, because it was the thick of everything was going on and my life had exploded. So I put this in the epilogue and a lot of times

that's what people wanted to talk about. And there was this little bit of this sense of like, COVID is the sexy thing of like, oh, I had the friend who died of COVID. And there were like a couple podcasts I did where like, that was the thing they used. And it's like, I was talking about my book about being a musical theater kid,

but clearly for the views and the eyeballs and the clickbait, they're using the Adam part. And it felt weird. And then also Adam was such an unsentimental person. And even though my special ultimately is not just about Adam because it really isn't, I didn't want to do anything that, because he's such a central part of it, I didn't want to do anything that he'd be like,

oh, don't, ugh. What are you doing? Yeah, don't make it about me. Don't be sentimental. He was such a non-saccharine, non-sentimental person. Yeah, I really was quite taken by it. I mean, I have so many questions. Like, let me back up a little bit

so we can get back into this. And when you were putting the show together, because we heard the first thing, first of all, let me say the name of the show is called Death Let Me Do My Show. Yeah, and then for Netflix, it'll be Death Let Me Do My Special. It was Death Let Me Do My Show when I was,

I just translated it for Netflix. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. When it It was Death Let Me Do My Show when I was, I just translated for Netflix. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. When it was off Broadway and stuff, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But it starts off with you making reference to the fact that you're about to go on tour, COVID was happening. You're like, okay, let's step back from this.

You were also nine months pregnant about that time. So I was building, so the idea was, I was building up to this new material. The show was maybe half done. I was gonna go on maternity leave and then ramp it up and finish the new material in a couple months in my head, and then film this like silly raunchy special,

especially because I had a network show for four years, I was excited to actually curse and say pussy and stuff, like a middle schooler. So I had had this show that I was planning and then the origin of this show is I had all the beats mapped out on a whiteboard in my office and I was looking at the whiteboard, this is like a couple months after Adam died and I was playing with my daughter and it's 5 a.m. and I'm exhausted and I look at, you know, it says like the bullet points just say like, come tree, pregnancy tests, what if Billie Eilish were really old?

And I'm like, this is so, which actually is like a pretty good song. I was like, this is so stupid. The world is so much more than this. How dare, like, this is, how dare, like this means nothing anymore. Especially this is like June 2020, July 2020, I'm like, oh, this is all gone. I can't, I'm not working on this anymore. And then I had the idea of like,

it feels like something has interrupted the course of my life. And it just very quickly became like, oh, what if that's a person? And then the challenge with this show was, I really did try to keep a lot of older material in. Well, and you succeed. And over the course of, only one.

Yeah, yeah. It's the beginning and ending song, but so much material lifted out. Mm-hmm. You know, you're sure your show does start off with you singing about countries. Sure, I do, yeah. Which is hilarious, because it's something I immediately recognize

We've all walked by the country there. Well, they're all they're everywhere. So, you know, they they were planted It's called the Bradford pear or the calorie pear. They came from China originally They started planting them all over the US in the 50s because they were beautiful suburban trees and they are they are very resistant to you know disease and They're very I I think they're very water efficient but yeah, they smell like cum. So really. It did hook me immediately. It makes me very happy.

But knowing the title of your show is like, where is this death thing coming at? Feels like a fun time to come. Oh my God, perfect time. Cum trees. Perfect, we've got some things to start. Tomato salad, the feta with plum, flaky bread, you've got some share plates over here.

Perfect. Yeah. Thank you. I'm fist pumping like a footballer. Yes you are. You can see. Very, very butch. Ugh.

Cucumber salad and the lemony chicken. Oh, gorgeous. That I haven't tried yet. Oh, it's so good. That was my suggestion. Wait, just give me the- Did you ever have the term in high school, God come? God come?

God come, like when food is really good. Some of my friends will be like, oh, that's God come. Oh no. Isn't that so good? That's so ridiculous. Yeah. I went to Catholic high school. I don't think we were allowed to say that.

I went to public school, so we were all bad kids. Mm-hmm. That's right. Mm-hmm. Yeah, you know me. It's all good. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Rachel tells me about weaving heavy topics into Crazy Ex-Girlfriend,

being into the exorcist as a kid, and why middle school sucks for everyone. Okay, be right back. I don't know about you, but every year fall rolls around and I struggle to find the right gift for my friends and my family. But luckily Justin Wine makes it super easy. Justin offers curated gift sets, library wines, magnums,

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Isn't that cute? Shop all of Justin's exceptional wines at JustinWine.com and be sure to use promo code JESSIE20 to receive 20% off your order today. That's JESSIE20 for 20% off. And we're back with more Dinners on Me. Yeah, so when I was watching, you know, the show and then I saw the turn where death literally interrupts your show, played by David Hall, where death literally interrupts your show, played by David Hall. And I realized that this show was going to be about death.

And this was literally the day after Gavin passed away. Oh, Jesus Christ. But let me tell you how therapeutic it was to hear you sort of break down and disseminate mortality and just the healing process. the way you start off the show is you talk about how you know your dog's going to die soon. But you get us sort of comfortable with this thing about like, you know, you hope to outlive your dog,

you don't want your dog to outlive you. No, that'd be fucked up. That would be totally fucked up. And I just, I was very taken by how you were able to sort of weave your way through these kind of tough topics. And right when I would think that, okay, she's not gonna be able to make me laugh anytime in the next 10 minutes, you would say something

that would make me completely just break and laugh and release. So it was a very therapeutic thing for me just in that moment. So I was actually, it felt like a godsend the fact that I got to get an early link for your special and watch it on that day. Honestly, that makes me so, because when you say you watched it the day after he died, I'm like, oh, Jesus Christ. Laughter is what got me through a lot of the time that I'm talking about. And Like, laughter's what got me through a lot of, like, the time that I'm talking about. And, like, I don't know, funny podcasts and funny TV shows and, like, rereading funny books.

Like, I reread a compilation of The Onion. And there's a part of laughing at things that, for a moment, you, like, forget death. There's a part of laughing that makes you almost feel immortal, and I can't really articulate it, which is why the show kind of comes back around to being silly. But also, like, it show kind of comes back around to being silly. Yeah.

But also like, it's kind of all we have. But it's something that you, I mean, I obviously became a fan of yours first through Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. And you know, how you navigated mental health and sort of weave that through musical theater was so, it was so deftly done and so like it was it felt very sleight of hand like you didn't realize at times that oh this is we're talking about heavy subjects because we're also talking about ridiculous things and these are musical numbers like set in the like 1940s or 1950s, or in this style, like ABBA.

And so I knew that I was in good hands with you when I started watching this special, but I wanna talk to you, what made you wanna take that genre and sort of embrace it in a way, and use it as a way to get these these bigger ideas across, you know, eventually scripted television. Part of my love is the clash and I think is the clash but not not the clash but the clash between them because there's a part of me that has a very very dark side and a very

goes to a place where I'm thinking about really dark things and I grew up by the beach in the sun goes to a place where I'm thinking about really dark things and I grew up by the beach in the sun and my brain was not that. I mean, I watched Welcome to the Dollhouse when I was like 11. And it became, I read The Exorcist for my eighth grade book report. I fucking loved it.

Like I just, there was a part of me that was very dark and then there was the other part of me that did Adelaide's Lament for the middle school lip sync, right? And it's these very dark sides of me and these very light sides of me. And so that definitely went into so much of what we were doing on Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. I mean, I can only imagine that it must be extremely cathartic as someone, I mean, I was also ruthlessly bullied in school, but then to create something and then have great success with

it, did you ever, I mean, do you have relationships with people from that time of your life that have reached out to you? Some bullies apologized in high school, a couple, one of my bullies came to see one of my shows, this is before Crazy Ex, and like apologized and she'd been through a lot. Wow. I mean, I think what's funny, especially this middle school bully. Bullies aren't great with subtlety. before Crazy Ex and like apologized and she'd been through a lot.

I mean, I think what's funny, especially this middle school bully. Who would've sung Great Resettled to you? No, so this bully who came in and reached out to me, at the time we had coffee, this is over 10 years ago, I had a song come out called the OC Dance, which is like a call and response dance song about OCD, which I had had. This woman says to me, oh my God, I have OCD too.

Now I don't know to this day if she was talking about she actually had dark intrusive thoughts that you could only relieve with a certain confession or action or if she just likes things neat and tidy. But I think even her saying that and her being like she was miserable in middle school too and I'm like, well really, you were the most popular girl, you had everything.

The kind of general thesis that's happened, especially in the past 10, 12 years, is realizing that I'm not that unique. That the problems that I saw that were bespoke to me are actually, I wouldn't say common, but there's a lot of people who have them. There's a lot of universality. There's a lot of universality. There's a lot of people who have them. There's a lot of universality. There's a lot of universality.

There's a lot of people who have, no one likes middle school. I think that's what I've realized is even the most popular kids were always afraid their popularity was going to plummet. How did you, do you feel comfortable talking about like how you found, like how you navigated your mental health at an early age? Was it, did it, were you in?

I covered it. I kind of have a show pony instinct. So it leaked through, like something was off with me in middle school, definitely, but something's also off with everyone in middle school. So I was a weird thing, I saw myself as so weird, but looking back at videos, I'm actually not,

there are other kids, other friends of mine who when I look at videos of them, but looking back at videos, I'm actually not, there are other kids, other friends of mine who when I look at videos of them, they're also weird. Right, we're trapped in our own personalities at that age too. It's like you can't see beyond your own self at that age. And that's how I felt. So the answer is how did I navigate is I,

for a long time, would mostly cover how I was feeling because I was ashamed and I didn't want people to see me as crazy. And then it would come in outbursts. I would have moments where I, occasionally little things where I would scream at people or I would have moments of depression where people would see it. And it took me a long time. I only got in real therapy probably my junior year of college, and it was a long road.

It felt like I was a little bit sleepwalking through life and just being purely reactive. I was also very ambitious. I'm so weird. I'm so lazy. That's what I really thought was like for years I would, this teacher who said something, laziness is a form of fear. And I would quote that because that's what I believed. I believed that I was lazy because I was afraid.

And there was a part of that that was true, that when I got into school, I was surrounded by people who were more naturally talented than I was around me. And so there was a part of me that stopped working less hard because it's easier to fail and be like, well, I didn't work hard, then try your best and still fail. But also I had ADHD. Right. Yeah. No one can really dissect the storm that's happening.

They can't explain the storm that's happening inside them to other people. Yeah, and like even now, there were people I've met all the time who were like, oh we would have been best friends in middle school, best looks beautiful. I smelled this coming in from like. It's really fragrant, yeah, all the time who were like, oh, we would have been best friends in middle school. Best looks beautiful. I smelled this coming in from like- It's really fragrant. Yeah, all the fennel.

Six feet away. That's incredible. I don't think I've had this before. Oh, shit. Oh, it's one of my favorites. That's a tadig. Got, yes, the tadig, the Moroccan spiced carrots, and the chicken skewers that are super fennel-y with the peanut pepper schmear on the side.

Oh my gosh. How are you doing on drinks? Got everything you need? I'm great. This is a party. What do they call this? Jeweled rice? When it's like brown and crustar on the side. Oh my gosh. How are you doing on drinks? Got everything you need? I'm great. This is a party. What do they call this, jeweled rice? When it's like brown and crusty on the bottom. It does look like, it looks like a beautiful

little engagement ring for my stomach. Yes. Will you marry me? Yes I will. This food's really special. Yeah, it's great. It's really great. How, first of all, so your daughter must be four and a half

now. Yeah, yeah. I only know this because my son was born in July of 2020. Oh. Yeah. Oh, so you have a similar, I mean, it's interesting as the months change, you had a full lockdown baby.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we weren't, and also, I know this is gonna surprise you, but we didn't carry. Well, I was gonna ask, like, how was your pregnancy? No, our surrogate's pregnancy was great, it was very smooth, but it was, you know, that was a wild thing, you know, going to Vegas where our son, both of our sons were born, but during- We were twins?

No, no, no, but we used- Stacked them. Yeah used- Stack them. Yeah, we stacked them. Truly. Talk to me about putting the show together, having just given birth. Like at what point did the piece, you were talking about this moment

sitting in your daughter's room, looking at the whiteboard, thinking, okay, this show's not this show anymore. Yeah. I got asked to do Mike Birbiglia's podcast, which is all about making art. And I hadn't prepped for the podcast. And so I came on and I was like, what are we talking about?

He's like, you gotta talk about something you're working on. And so I was like, I have this idea for a show where death would interrupt. I talked about it on the podcast. And then my first stand-up show, where I mostly did old material, tried out a couple of new jokes, not even about what's in the special, but just new jokes, was in, I think it was an outdoor stand-up show in May 2021.

So it wasn't even until probably a year after I had the idea that I was even comfortable performing live again. And I don't know if you did any live shows around then, but it was like everyone who get up, you'd basically come up and wipe the mic down with a Santa, like it was like a stripper pole basically. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Rachel and I talk about the status dysmorphia she experienced after her show ended and the paranoia we all feel around young babies. Okay, be right back.

And we're back with more Dinners on Me. What I mean, you also talked a little bit about, you know, coming off of Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, I've heard you talk about how you kind of assumed, the same thing happened to me with Modern Family, that there would be just be like, okay, it's a bidding war now. Like, who wants me next?

That didn't happen for me. I mean, I got to go do other things that I enjoyed very much and I got to do a play. But talk to me a little bit, because I think this is a very interesting thing, like, and something people don't talk about a lot, is coming off as something that is successful and that people did love and the critics loved, and then how hard it is sometimes to recapture

that attention with a new idea. My therapist has called it status dysmorphia at times because I've been like, if I don't sell a thing, I'll say, I don't know if I matter. And she's like, well, you have a little bit of status dysmorphia. And I went, everyone does because no one quite knows where they stand. So if you're going to offer someone a role,

you're going for the person who's going to get your thing made. And chances are the first person you're going for the person who's gonna get your thing made. And chances are the first person you're gonna pick is the person who's really, really famous at that time. And I think I came off a crazy ex-girlfriend being like, I'm gonna get so many movie offers. And I didn't, and I can't tell you why. I mean, you were on a really, really popular show.

For me, my show was a cult show. We got a lot more viewers actually after the show had ended during the pandemic. If you watched it, you loved it, but most people didn't. So I think that that messed with me. I mean, for you, I'm surprised actually. I was like the way you're phrasing this. You actually, this is kind of fucked up.

You're more famous than I am, so I'm like, but also it's like, it's also a right place, right time thing, but I also think coming off of Crazy X, and what year did Modern Family end? 2000, we shot our last episode February of 2020. So, oh, so you ended even later than we did. So like, right when our shows ended, the industry fucking changed.

So that's the other thing. So there's the acting perspective of where are all my lead parts? Oh, wait, who watched my show? Not a lot of people, but I have a Golden Globe. Oh, you don't care? Copy that. So there's that aspect. And then as a writer trying to sell stuff, seeing the market collapse.

All of the networks. Oh, we have a visitor. Oh, Lashon Atova. They're looking for Sarah and Sarah. Looking for Sarah and Sarah. Rabbi Korff. Rabbi Korff. I love it.

So cute. A rabbi just popped in. A rabbi. We're all talking about this. A rabbi just popped in. The rabbi wants something from us. I think that's what we're all talking about this. A rabbi just popped in.

The rabbi wants something from us. I think he wants us to believe. What if it just all of a sudden fizzled on the roof, started? Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Tradition. I don't know why the rabbi popped in. Let me tell you.

I forget. But the rabbi popped in. It's like a scene out of Crazy X. Yeah. I don't know. You's like a scene out of Crazy X. Yeah. I don't know. You're not going to be handed a thing. It's really fungible. It's funny.

My publicist is here. I don't know. I feel like everyone you rep probably thinks has this moment, except for Tina Fey, because she represents Tina Fey. You don't have to share anything personal about Tina Fey. That's not what I'm saying, but I feel like everyone, no matter- She definitely doesn't have as much problem as we do.

No, she's so famous, but everyone has this idea of status dysmorphia. Doesn't everyone have that moment of instability of like, am I famous? Do I even matter? It's not exclusive to celebrities. but it's not exclusive to you. It's also not exclusive to celebrities. That's a really good point.

That's what we heard. That's a really good point. From four tables down. I think, but I think that's a good point that we all, but all humans want validation. Isn't that so funny? Celebrities, sometimes we just like, you guys are so much harder for us.

You guys, you don't understand. But it's funny, because I don't think of myself as a celebrity, partially because like- Oh God, that's all I think about myself. That's my whole identity. No, I can't believe. But also for most people, I'm super not.

Like I either, I'm the person, if you know me, you're like a huge fan, but most 99.99% of people have no idea. But when we're like, I'll read Dumois. Where I'm not part of that celebrity where I'm like, oh, what are the famous people doing? What are they eating? Right, right. They're still a little separate in my head. So that's also a little bit of an imposter syndrome.

But coming off of Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, I think now I'm finally starting to get a sense of what a career looks like. Yeah. And your career has different ebbs and flows and tops and bottoms and all you can do is do your best work and be consistent and it's why I love live performance because if I'm not booking a role in film or TV, there's always live performance. Would you?

Like as far as doing my own, as far as like anywhere from like doing my own, putting my show up at Dynasty Typewriter or like jumping on an improv show, I can always have a way to be artistic. Now, why have you not been in a Broadway musical? Is this because you don't have any interest or because no one's asked you?

No one's asked me, they have my number. Okay, well, I just want to put that out there. No one, let me make this very clear. I have not been offered a Broadway musical yet, and I'm not fielding offers, I'm not turning them down, but to be for the record, yes. I would like to do Broadway. And I'd like to see that.

If anyone wants to approach me, people have my contact information. My email's really easy to figure out. It's like astoundingly easy to figure out. Don't give it out. I'm not gonna give it out, but just like, it's really easy. Joanne, I had another great question, which I forgot about.

Speaking of that. You do talk about in your special, and I love this because I definitely relate to this, looking at the internet and listening to parents and hearing all the crazy, insane ways that your baby can die. Which is insane when you're already scared about becoming a new parent.

And after my friend has actually died. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. I remember we posted a photo of our son's nursery because we had a partnership with Creighton Barrel and we had to post some photos on Instagram. Nice. And we had a tree in our, like a live plant near the crib. And the amount of people that were like,

that is terrible for a baby. And the allergens on the tree and one of those leaves could fall on his face and suffocate him. It's always suffocating. It's always suffocating. And I know you also talked about like carbon monoxide being a thing that you were like never like really aware of that it would be.

Well, because the hotel where my husband and I got married, a couple was found dead in a room of carbon monoxide poisoning. And we'd actually just, a couple months before this happened, we had revisited the hotel and they'd done a whole refurbishment. We'd been like, oh, they added a lot of nice outdoor fire pits. And at times we're like, smells a little like gas. That's weird. Wow.

Yeah, it turns out there, it was riddled with carbon monoxide leaks. They had turned off the carbon monoxide alarms. The carbon monoxide alarms were going off and guests were complaining. So they just turned them off. Yep. Oh my God. And this is how people die. People die of carbon monoxide poisoning from fireplaces,

you know, from cars. So that was another thing of like, oh, okay, this place that I'd actually seen as the best weekend of my life is now a death trap. So yeah, and I think also when you're a friend, when you experience someone suddenly dying, you can't help but navel gaze and be like, am I next? When am I next?

I could be next. You think about your own mortality, absolutely. How am I next? When am I next? I could be next. You think about your own mortality, absolutely. How am I next? And then of course, if you have a baby, they're so fragile. And yeah, if you're told that anything can make them suffocate, if you're reading the right materials,

which I was obviously. Oh, I found it. It's horrifying, they're helpless. And it's why I really, I don't think I want another kid. I don't want an infant again. And maybe it's also just was this specifically vulnerable time for me, but like, it was,

I remember when she learned to, finally learned to roll on her stomach. Watching her stomach sleep for the first week was like, but she's suffocating herself, because that's what I've been told not to do. Yeah, yeah, I know. And it makes, it needs to work with baby monitors because our parents didn't have video monitors.

They just, you know, hope for the best, I guess. But now that you have video. Every morning was a. Every morning is like a. Who knows, we'll see. It's horrifying. It is, it's hard. But it fucking happens. Like, and I don't talk about this in the special

but I was concerned about dying during trial birth. Yeah. Our America is not great for maternal death rates. California has a better rate than the country. I did a lot of research. But did you know that basically we're still evolving, that our pelvis is narrowed so that we could walk on two feet.

But simultaneously, our brains got bigger to make us smarter. So as our hips narrowed, so we could walk on two feet, the brains got bigger. And that's why our young is born technically premature, because if they were born any later, they wouldn't be able to come out of our tiny if they were born any later, they wouldn't be able to come out of our tiny hips, but it's still a really imperfect process. And it's partially why our human childbirth is, from what I've gleaned, significantly more painful than if we were walking on all fours,

because our hips would be bigger. Right, I mean, I see these elephants giving birth, and they're just having a snack, and then they give birth, and they continue to eat that hay. And then the elephant walk, they walk right away. It's because we give birth to premature young. That's why they call it the fourth trimester is because like they should still be in the womb.

They shouldn't be here. And you get that from your, did you feel that with your kids? Like there's something about a newborn where they're like, why have you foisted this existence upon me father? I don't put me back in the lady. Like they don't, they don't like you.

They don't like this. They're cool. Yeah. Like what is all this space and air? Like, yeah. What are you putting in my mouth? Yeah. You have a very good sense of humor of these things.

I mean the fact that you played that music during, what was the space jam? Oh, well that was my pump up. Also the epidural had really kicked in. the humor of these things. I mean, the fact that you played that music during, what was the space jam? Oh, well that was my pump up riff playing. Also the epidural had really kicked in. And also I was on three hours of sleep and I was loopy. But yeah, I try to, again, like I try to keep myself happy because there's a part of myself that could really slide into darkness.

And that's kind of what the special is, is that I kept myself happy, I kept myself happy and a certain point it got dark and I couldn't avoid it. And then I felt all the darkness that I'd kind of been avoiding. Yeah. Well, I'm so proud of you for doing this special.

I'm so proud that you are able to talk about these incredibly difficult moments and give so much light to other people. I certainly felt that when I watched it and I'm really grateful that this special exists. I can't wait to show it to Justin, who's also my husband, who's dealing with his own sort of grief with Gavin. I think it was very helpful. It's such a beautiful tribute to your friend, Adam. It's such a beautiful tribute to your daughter

and to your dog. I mean, it's ultimately a big tribute to your dog. Yeah, it really is. And I just can't wait for people to watch it and rewatch it. I think that it was, you know, because it was so hard to categorize and define, it was such a meaningful thing for so many people to watch because if you're not a fan

of comedy, you have a way in. If you are a fan of comedy, you have a way in. It really speaks to a broad audience and yet the themes are razor sharp and spot on and you should just be really, really proud of the special, it's great. Thank you, that be really, really proud of the special. It's great. Thank you.

That makes me really happy. And your opinion means a lot to me. Well, it should. Cause you're very smart. Well, I'm a very prolific podcast host now. I know, congratulations on this. And also thank you for a beautiful, we are recording this on the Jewish new year.

Thank you for a beautiful Rosh Hashanah lunch. You're very welcome. What a wonderful way to welcome in this. I forgot it was the Jewish New Year, thank you for a beautiful Rosh Hashanah lunch. You're very welcome. What a wonderful way to welcome in this. I forgot I was a Jewish New Year. It's like 5785, I think. Ah, it feels like a new year. I was like, this is going to be my year, baby. 5785.

It is, it is. And because of that, dinner's on me. There you go. It was my best one. That was great. I thought that was great. And because of that. And because of that, it's Dinner's On Me. There you go. It was my best one. That was great. I thought that was great. And because of that, it was on me. This episode of Dinner's On Me was recorded at Kismet in East Hollywood. Next week on Dinner's On Me, you know him as the lead of the new NBC medical drama, Brilliant Minds. It's my friend Zachary Quinto.

Now we've had Zach on the show before, but this time around I want to chat about this huge moment in his career. I mean, he's playing the lead character of this incredible new drama. I see his face plastered on billboards all over LA. It's just such an exciting moment for him. And I wanted to take a minute to dig into what it means and how he got here. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners on Me Plus. As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad-free. Just click Click Try Free at the top of the Dinners On Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today! Dinners On Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions.

It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Angela Vang. Sam Baer engineered this episode. Hans-Dale Shi composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tamika Balanz-Kalasny and Justin Makita.

I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.