Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - Rory Kinnear – on Judi Dench, ‘Lord of the Rings,’ and the father he still misses

Episode Date: July 22, 2025

'The Diplomat’ and ‘No Time To Die’ star Rory Kinnear joins the show. Over lamb and English asparagus, Rory reflects on losing his father Roy Kinnear at a young age, and how he keeps his memory alive for his own children. He shares stories about his bond with Dame Judi Dench, honoring his late sister, and joining the 'Lord of the Rings' universe. This episode was recorded at Lasdun at the National Theatre on London’s South Bank. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So I'm currently traveling abroad in London right at the moment, which is why so many of my episodes have people with British accents right now. It's amazing here. I love it. Until I need directions or restaurant recs or anything, and I've got no Wi-Fi and sky-high roaming fees, which is just not cute. That's why I started using Salie. Salie is an easy-to-use eSIM app created by the folks behind NordVPN. It gives you instant mobile data in over 190 countries and you only have to install it

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or planning our podcast recording, I know I'm backstage, at home with the kids, or planning our podcast recording, I know I'm hydrating the Earth's finest way. Fiji water. It's Earth's finest water. Hi, it's Jesse. Today on the show, you know him from Bond films like Quantum of Solace and No Time to Die, from the TV show The Diplomat and Say Nothing. He's also one of my co-stars, and here we are that I'm doing right here at the National. It's Rory Kinnear.

You were the first Nepo baby. I think there were some before. No, I think you were the very first one. Edward the Third. This is Dinners you were the very first one. Um, Edward the third. Oh, okay. This is Dinners on Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. When I started rehearsal for Here We Are at The National, I was so excited to meet one of my favorite actors,

Rory Kinnear. I have been admiring his work for so long and never in a million years that I think I would be able to act on stage with him, opposite of him, at the National Theater, a place where he really, I mean, developed his whole career. He has such a deep history with this building. I knew immediately, when I knew I was bringing episodes

of Dinners on Me to the UK, I would have to have RoryERS ON ME to the UK, I would have to have Rory on. And not only that, I would have to have him on in a restaurant here at The National. Martha Plimpton and I ate at Forza a few episodes ago, and now I'm with Rory Kinnear at Lasden. They're a slightly fancier restaurant. Martha Plimpton's not mad about that at all, that I'm bringing R Roy here, not her. It's a modern British restaurant from the team behind the beloved gastropub, the Marksman Public House.

It serves elegant, grocery-style food inspired by seasonal and locally-sourced ingredients. Fun fact, the National Theatre actually raises bees on top of this building, which make the honey for the honey tart at the restaurant. All right, let's get to the conversation. So we had a cast gathering last night. We did.

So you were out until one in the morning, which is just so rare for you because I have literally gotten text messages from you when you're already at home, like relieving the babysitter, and I'm still leaving the building. There are many benefits to working at Sir Dennis Lassden's National Theatre, and chief amongst them for me is the fact that I live a 10 minute cycle away.

So yeah, the show finishes at 10 o'clock, five to 10. I'm usually out before the The orchestra finishes. The orchestra finishes. And I'm on a bike, and I'm home by 10, 15 in bed. That's my dream. Well yeah, it's been pretty consistent. It's not always been like that,

but as one gets older, the priorities change. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm glad you stayed out. I'm shocked and surprised you were out until one in the morning. Yeah, no, I thought if I'm out, I might as well stay out. And they're a fun bunch,

because as well as they have some strong personalities, they're all working in the same. Oh, we have incredibly strong personalities. They're all working together in the same direction. It's also the best thing to do, I think, as an actor, to be in an ensemble, to not feel like people are coming to see you, or that you have to carry something,

or that the focus is on you. Certainly when you play the Hamlet, that's the case. Well, it can feel that way sometimes. Hey. Okay. Have you had a chance to look at the mic? Nope. No, he's been talking.

I've been shit-chatting. Being ducked up. What are you, what are some of your popular dishes? We have to also, we have to be on stage in like three hours. So we don't like over. during which we'll be talking about food No, we talked about food not stopping our show. So we can't I mean you eat as much as you want, but I'm just thank you Thank you. I have to I have to think about his digestion my digestion. I Please

I'm going to Do the salt cod potato and hen's egg to start with. Okay, so you're starting with that. I'm gonna start with the asparagus. English asparagus, is that the white asparagus? No, that's the green one. It's the season, asparagus season at the moment. I know, I'm gonna do the roasted halibut.

Thank you, and for you? I will do the per-lease, I'm having the lamb, please. That's a yannic patameter. He's done it, he's done it, he's done it. Any sides to go with your mains? I think I'm all right. I might have buttered potatoes. Portion of potatoes for the tables.

Perfect. So you have quite a history here. This is my first time ever working on the West End. And this building that we're in, this incredible building, the National Theatre, you have such a wildly rich history with this place. Yeah, and that has been like a wild adventure in terms of that's all I wanted to do. My dad was an actor and worked here when I was about seven or eight. I started seeing stuff then, here. I kept on coming through seeing Ian Charleston's Hamlet when I was 12, which he was doing in

the last few months of his life just before he passed away, 40 and so it was all I wanted to do. My only ambition as an actor was to work here and it took a few years and there were a few you know a few failed auditions and I thought began to think I was just wanting it too much and then yeah finally got my foot in the door when I was about 29 doing a play called Southwark Fair in the smaller theater, and that sort of led to Nick Hytner, who was running the building at the time, saying he wanted to do Hamlet with me

and then wanted to do Iago with me. And it was, I mean, it was kind of like, I was doing Man of Mode here and I got a call from Nick, saying, please can you come to the office? And I thought I was in trouble, I thought that was my, I'd had my shot and I'd blown it, and I don't know what I'd done wrong, but I thought he's gonna ask you to get out the door. And yeah, just sort of laid out this sort of plan for me

for the next sort of five, six years. And it was kind of one of those meetings where you leave going, the ground has slightly shifted. Yeah. I know that. Well, Man of Mode was such a, I mean, you won an Olivier for it,

which, you know, is like, your version of the Tony. Right, yeah. Our version of the Olivier is called the Tony Award. No, but that was a huge moment in your career, but it's gotta be wild to then be like handed Hamlet after that. I'm wild because I didn't think of myself like that as an actor.

I'd had confidence in what I could do, but I didn't necessarily think that other people would see me as kind of a leading man. Yeah. I thought I'd be a character actor, and I am, but I thought maybe I could play Iago, but I didn't necessarily see myself as Hamlet or Macbeth, which we also did here. And like, she was speaking to a young guy I thought maybe I could play Iago, but I didn't necessarily see myself as Hamlet or Macbeth,

which we also did here. And like, she was speaking to a young guy at the stage door last night, asking about advice about, you know, in Shakespeare in particular. So the only advice in terms of like- You had a really wild night last night. You went out to dinner and you talked to him at the stage door.

And I actually got stopped at the stage door. Rather than you, you must have been going somewhere else. Two things you never do. You never stop at the stage door, unless you're physically stopped. I'm usually out. That privilege to be able to say the words. And you don't have to worry that there's

been 1,000 people played it before, and you don't have to worry the fact there'll be another 1,000 people playing it. This is your one opportunity to play those roles and get to feel what it is like to go on the journeys of these incredible roles. It sort of came to a point then that I did think, I've got to set myself some other ambitions,

some other goals, because I could happily do this for the rest of my life. Did this building look the same when your dad was performing here? You know, it's this incredible brutalist sign on the Thames River. And I can't imagine it would probably have shifted too much because it's such a time capsule. No, I don't think they're allowed to. In fact, they recently, maybe about three or four years ago, replaced the carpets.

But had to replace them with exactly the same designs. Are we gonna suggest that they do the dressing rooms next because those definitely. Yeah, I mean what is lovely about the dressing rooms is that they're all in this atrium. Yes. All the windows look in on each other. You're able to have conversations across the,

across the, I don't actually know what is underneath that. I don't know either. Little point of it. Yeah. I mean there's a jail sense to it. I don't know either. Little point of it. I mean, there's a jail sense to it. There is a jail sense. It is. But it is so special because it's like,

all the actors' dressing rooms face one another in this corridor, and I was always told about this really special tradition on the first preview and on opening night of whatever show's coming in, how all the other actors, because there's three theaters here, and sometimes there's as many as three productions going at the same time.

And they'll bang on the windows and create noise. When it's, I- I don't know if it's the first time you hear it. I can still sort of- I thought a rainstorm was coming. I was like, oh gosh, it's hailing outside. And I looked out and it was just all these people, these faces that I hadn't really even seen before.

People getting ready for their own half hours banging on the window. Yeah, in that sort of sense, because you know, obviously if you try and see everyone's shows, and you try and support everyone else's work, but you can't always get to do it. And so, the fact that there is this kind of camaraderie

expressed through a banging on the window. Actually, we did a, there was a 50th anniversary celebration of the building. We, it was sort was broadcast live on TV, and the same thing happened on that night. And there was Judi Dench popping out the window, there was Ian McKellen and Michael Gamm popping out the window, banging on the window.

Really just. So special. Yeah, and it remains as special as I sort of always thought and hoped it would be. Yeah, it's so special. Yeah, I think you always remember that first. You always remember your first time. Your first bang at the windows.

Oh my god, this is so good. It truly is asparagus season. Alright. So by the time this podcast comes out, our show will have been done. Off into the ether. Off into the ether. Off into the ether. But if you could reflect on what it's been like,

you've never done a Sondheim show. I did company at university. Did you really? At university, I stress. I played Harry in college. Oh, okay. But it wasn't like a kid who was into him and knew about it.

And then when I got offered it and I was away camping for the weekend and I sort of began to read it and realized like, this is going to take a bit more attention than fake. So I sort of put it away until we were back. And the first half I sort of got through it, but it was like, it's fun, it's funny. I don't know what it is.

And then about a third of the way through the second half, it just began to click, and I began to kind of get it, I guess. And I think an audience is sometimes, some of them are right on board from the off, and some of them it takes a while, and some of them maybe don't get there. They actually come cut and call.

There's something I also, I just really love about it when it's a divided response. I think there's something really exciting about that. I think it's exciting to be a part of something like that. I'm enjoying being in things where people, it leaves them thinking. Yeah. Rather than like, I had a great time

for those two and a half hours. Now I'm going to get on with my life. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it sticks with you. Yeah, and it demands you to sort of ask questions about it. And just because he was getting towards the end of his creative and physical life, his brain was just sharp as a tank till the end. And of course he wasn't going to go off,

A, doing something that was easy, because he didn't do things easily, or B, do something that was just on one level. He was so loved in the UK, in London in particular, and so much of his work was done here at the National and he had such a lovely relationship with him. And in fact, he had come to see Hamlet that I had done and had written an incredibly nice email after,

never got to meet him because I was an email Yeah to the whole company. He was nice. He said it was in his top three theatrical experience of his of his life That's incredible. I mean we all kept that email. That's that's incredible an absolute, you know Wow to receive and then Weirdly that year he was picking up a special something at the Olivier's and I was that I was that very near to him and then weirdly that year he was picking up a special something at the Olivier's and I was that I was that very near to him and I was just one of those things like I don't want to I don't want to muck it up I'm just gonna

just walk out of here with my dignity. I did the opposite and I mucked it up. What did you say? I just told him good job after I'd saw one of his shows. I didn't know what else to say. He had done a good job. He had done a great job. He'd written it. He'd done a great job. Yeah, I know, he'd written it. But that's all I could say. And then there was no follow-up. I mean, presumably he was used to people

getting a little bit tongue-tied around him. I guess, I don't know. I wish I could go back in time and redo that. Very good job. Very good job. Stephen. Stephen. Personal, is. Stephen. Stephen. Personal, if you said it least.

I remember we were doing a show at the Don Mart. It was one of my first shows. And Ron Howard came to see it. And I hadn't been meeting that many sort of fancy American people at the time. And I just remember saying, it's a lovely to meet you. And just thinking, I'm never going to introduce myself ever to people that I admire or respect it's a lovely to meet you

now for a quick break but don't go away when we back, Rory shares what it was like to be an OG Nepo baby and the special way he's honored his late father. Okay, be right back. Now that Beckett is five and Sully is not far behind at three, I've been thinking a lot about school options. I want to set them up for success, but also make sure they're learning in ways that actually work for who they are. That's why I love what K-12 powered schools are doing.

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Taxes and fees extra. See Mintmobile for details. And we're back with more Dinners on Me. Do you think your kids have, you know, I'm sure they've seen, I mean, what do they think about this career that you have? You know, I mean, obviously you come from a family that, you know, also your mom was a soap opera singer, Your dad was a very prolific character actor. And so I imagine that, you know, just being a part of the entertainment industry at such a young age was very influential to you.

I mean, do you think about your kids doing this? Bracing this? If they want to. I mean, you know, as a parent, you give them options, don't you? Yeah. And you try and encourage them to cast their net wide when they're young and hopefully they find something that they'll like and quite often actors will say,

will react with kind of horror that their kids wanna do it because it can be a chaotic and... I've heard so many actors saying I would steer my kids away from it and I don't think I would do that. No, I mean, I love acting. Yeah, yeah. And I also love the life that it's afforded me.

So you can't, if you've loved something so much, you can't then say, you can't do it. You shouldn't do it, yeah. And I didn't really get any resistance from my parents. I mean, my dad died when I was little, so I mean, from my mom, I didn't really get that. I think when people say, like, you know, what did having parents in the industry give you,

as if it was kind of like a leg up, but it wasn't necessarily that. What it does is give you confidence that it's a viable career. Right. And that it's not a leap into the unknown. And I think most people who want to enter the industry without any background in it,

feel the pressure from family and within themselves that am I throwing everything away on a ludicrous pipe dream? Whereas, because my dad and my mom had both acted, and I'd seen fluctuations in their careers, but we had a life, we had a nice life. So it was a job, I saw it was a viable job. You were the first Nepo baby.

I think there were some before me. No, I think you were the very first one. Edward the third. I've had such a good time looking at your research because I did get to go down a little bit of a rabbit hole with your dad's career. You share so many characteristics. Yeah. You know, I also, I just lost my mother

and it's, you know, grief and loss of a parent is something I've been thinking about a lot and I'm obviously on the early end of that grief process. I've completed it. You've completed it? I'm done. Finished, wait till you finish it. It's great. And I won.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So just like researching the history of your family, it was, I don't know, I was just, it felt very, I don't know, current for me. And it felt like there was just a lot of stuff that you had talked about in interviews. I was like, oh, that's really helpful for me.

One of the things you said is, you know, every 10 years you sort of have a different relationship with the loss of a parent, which I... Which I think you probably would have if they were still alive. I mean, that is the other thing about loss of a parent, is that your relationship with them will last your entire life, whether they're there or not.

And I was lucky to have had 10 years with my dad. I was obviously unlucky to lose my father. I was lucky to have 10 happy years with my dad where I felt loved, which has been a sustaining love for 37 years since, and it will remain that. I mean, it is kind of remarkable how potent it still is. It is kind of remarkable how potent it still is, how I will cry about it. But I have a weird comfort in it, in that my dad lost his dad when he was eight. My dad's father was a rugby player, quite a celebrated rugby player.

I mean, he had died playing rugby, he hadn't died as part of combat, but he was died playing rugby for the RAF. And my dad would still cry about his dad when I remember talking to him about it. And in some ways, the fact that he was able to be so open and was still moved over 45 years after his father had died, I found kind of comforting.

And when I'm interviewed, I'm willing to talk about it and I'm quite open about it because I love his memory being kept alive. I think most people, I mean, he's pretty ensconced in history just with the performance in Willy Wonka alone. He played for, what's the? Bruce Salt's dad, yeah, Mr. Salt.

And, you know, I mean, that's, so many people adore that original, not the Johnny Depp version. Sure, sure, sure. It's the Gene Wilder version. I did sure, sure. It's Eugene Wilder. I did it, I went along to see it, and interested to see what Tim Burton had done with it. And I was enjoying it, and then, I think it was that James Hawkes who played my dad's role,

and he came on screen, and literally this sort of, this jolt went through me, just kind of like, get off the family jewels. I can imagine. Yeah, it was kind of back away. Yeah, you're away from me now, step away from the part. So it was obviously, oh right, yeah, there was sort of a protective instinct

that goes both ways as a child and parent. But there's something so special about your dad having left this legacy that people can enjoy. And I mean, I'm struck in a way that you lost your father at such a young age. There must have been so many ways that you built a relationship with him through the work that he had done in the find as well.

Yeah, I'm unbelievably lucky to have that. And I've made full use of it, particularly in the first five, six years after he died. I just watched his stuff all the time because he made me laugh. When my daughter was born, he would have been 80 just before then. And there was a really lovely cinema museum just down the road from me in Kennington. And I used to take my son there. They could do like a little Saturday morning kids club.

The chap sort of sidled over and was like, you know, if you ever want to do anything here, we'll be happy. And I said, well, actually, you know, it would have been his 80th. I thought, maybe I'll do like an 80th birthday celebration for him. And so I was like, do it in about six months. His sister came down from Scotland and are friends of his, friends of mine, friends I'd made through the kids to have these generations in a room of like 250 people celebrating him and then some friends of his did a little Q&A afterwards. It was unbelievably special to have that opportunity but also that raw material to work with for my son to be able to watch his stuff and I've got a video of my son when he was about four watching

Charlie and the Chocolate Fracture for the first time and my dad doing this little prat fall down the bad egg shoot and him just falling off the sofa laughing going, again, show me about four watching Charlie the Chock Fracture for the first time and my dad doing this little prat fall down the bad egg shoot and him just falling off the sofa laughing going, again, show me again, show me again. And just thinking, there you are, the hand reaching out across the generations. You know, I'm very aware of how lucky I was and am to have that.

Yeah, I mean, because I think about when I was 10 or 11, I really have a hard time remembering specifics about that time of my life. Do you remember specifics around your time with him when he was alive? Yeah, I've got plenty. And I think probably any kid that loses a parent early or loses anyone early,

whether you're doing it actively or subconsciously, you put a highlight pen around things from that previous time, the time with them. I got lucky with lots of stuff in life, so I didn't want to, again, slight sense of responsibility not to throw all that back away. Just on one bad day. Yeah, yeah.

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Rory tells me about the legacy of his late sister who passed away from COVID, about a special relationship with Dame Judi Dench, and how he wooed his partner Pandora with his accuracy, as he puts it. Okay, be right back. Okay, so you know, when my husband and I were planning our wedding, we joked that finding the right caterer felt harder than casting a new season of White Lotus.

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And we're back with more Dinners on Me. When we were in rehearsal, I came in one day. I had come across a piece you had written about your sister who passed away from COVID pretty early on in the pandemic and your sister who's older and she has special needs and you had a very interesting perspective on losing another family member and how you said goodbye under the circumstances

you were forced to be in. I mean, they were interested in talking about, like, wanting to keep my dance memory alive in interviews that almost as soon as my sister passed, I wanted to write about it. And I wanted to write about it publicly, and I wanted her story, which was one of, you know, she had a lack of oxygen at birth,

and was severely brain damaged and profound multiple learning disability. But gave as much to us as we gave to her. And the sort of the people with that severity of disability don't get written about when they die. Not in newspapers, and I realized like having the privilege of having a bit of a name or whatever it is that someone would probably publish it.

I knew it was a similar story to thousands of people in this country and obviously hundreds and thousands of millions of people around the world. That sense of what my mum was very good about was we're not going to hide away. But we're going to keep fighting for the best quality of life that she can get. We're going to not accept no every time it's told to you. We just keep fighting for the best quality of life that she can get. We're gonna not accept no every time it's told to you. We just keep fighting. That's what my mom's, as most parents of a disabled kid, find they have to do.

It's just fight, fight, fight, fight, fight for the little scraps that are on offer. My mom, well, because Karina was living at home with us, as we were getting older, my other sister and I as we were getting older, my mom sort of I guess realized that her life was gonna be, you know, cleaner than her and ever decreasing scraps of like,

the care support that she might be offered. So she, and again, linking it back to this building, she decided she was going to, and my mom and dad had talked about establishing a sort of centre of excellence, a small sort of centre of excellence for young adults like Karina. And she thought, OK, I'm going to do it. She'd never had any experience in the charity sector at all, but driven by necessity and a refusal to be cowed by it all.

Went along to an auction and put a bit, I'd never been to an auction before, put a bid on a bungalow and then realized, OK, I'm going to have to raise this money now. So she actually approached Richard Eyre, who was the boss of the National Theatre at the time, said, any chance we could do like a fundraising show? They'd never done a fundraising show here before. It was kind of like, I don't think it was considered part of what this building should do and whatever.

But knowing how loved my dad was, Richard said yes. And so that bungalow that she got at that auction, they transformed it into a home for six young disabled adults and where Karina lived until she died and where now that level of care and level of attention and level of respect and dignity is afforded to people and hopefully will for long past, hopefully my life, let alone my mom's and to have something lasting,

much more than a newspaper article, lasting and meaningful and tangible. I mean, what a gift that that was able to happen. I mean, when you try and quantify what we do in terms of concrete success or concrete, what it actually means compared to a house in Twickenham that looks after six young disabled adults, it's an unfair.

I mean, it's incomparable. Exactly. Truly. Mm. Oh God, I was connected to what we were just saying. I'll just have a big mouthful of lamb whilst you. Mm. Compose yourself.

Yeah. Mm. I don't know if this is what I was gonna say, but, you, speaking of your film career, you went, first of all, from doing Shakespeare and being a very celebrated stage actor to being a part of a pretty big franchise with the James Bond films.

And another connection there, and I know that Judi Dench, who you played opposite of in the films, was a family friend and in fact her husband, tell me his name again. Michael Williams. Is your godfather. Was, yeah.

Was your godfather, he passed away. I died quite a few years ago now. But yeah, so he and my dad had been at the RSC together in the, let's say late 60s I think, and had become great mates. So yeah, when I came along, and he was a great godfather as well. But obviously, Judy, it was really nice to,

when I first started doing those films, most of my time was just spent with her, and she's just as good fun as she is good at acting. She's very good at acting. Yeah, yeah. She's very good at acting. Good job, good job. So yeah, and we went our way to Panama for a week or so on filming that first one we did together.

And on what could have been a slightly overwhelming experience to have someone that a good and respected, but also so kind and easy going. And even though maybe you weren't super connected to her personally, I mean, she has such a deep connection to your family. Yeah, exactly. You know, your father.

She is one of those people who, I mean, when Mike died, she sort of took over and started sending me presents. I'm like, you know, I'm 28 now, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She still sends me a bottle of wine on my birthday. Does she? She sends a rose to my mom on the anniversary of their, my mom and dad's wedding anniversary.

I mean, she's just one of those great people. Did she ever tell you things about your father that you didn't know? Or, I mean, everything. I can, a nice thing about following him into the same career is that every job I did for the first 15, 20 years was with, was usually with one or two or three people

who had worked with him. And still to this day, I'm meeting people I've not met before who have a story about him from the 70s or 80s. And much to my great fortune, he was a really lovely man. So they're all positive stories. Must be quite difficult if you're the son or daughter of someone who was famously an asshole.

What you must have to do to sort of, to apologize, to pre-apologize before they get there. Well, you yourself have a very good reputation. Actually, I got a phone call from Allison, Janny, the night before we started this, saying you're about to work with Rory. You're gonna love him so much buckle up He's so funny. I was oh if Allison likes this guy. I'm Well, there is also I mean, I think there's a slight testament to that that cast and set actually on the diplomat. Yeah

because I Mean really lucky to have gone from we finished the third series of that and I flew here to start this, but to have had back-to-back jobs with two casts that are not only like good and nice, but really smart. But when it does and when everything therefore becomes so easy, you just don't want any other way of working. You just don't want Evertoff to not work like this.

If it can be done, why isn't it done all the time? Yeah. You were telling me, so the other thing you're working on right now, you are in a prequel of Lord of the Rings called the... Rings of Power. Rings of Power. And you're playing a character that

is referenced a lot in the Lord of the Rings stories. Yeah, there's one section of the first book in which he appears and that Peter Jackson didn't use because he couldn't work out how it would drive the narrative forward. Because it was such a big story. Well, it was more just like he's kind of like a character

that people who know the books quite often love, some probably don't, but quite often love because he is unlike anyone else in the in the lore. Okay. And he is as old as time. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Your go-to man. So yes.

Yeah. I see how this happened. And he is sort of whimsical and wise and in touch with the earth and sort of as one with nature. And what is his name again? Tom Bombadil. So did you feel because you didn't know a lot about the character and obviously, like you just said, it's a very popular character. Your partner Pandora was like, this is incredible.

It's my favorite character in the books. People loved this character. In fact, when I was going through my little rabbit hole, like researching what people were saying about this character, there was like a whole, I didn't watch the whole thing, it was like 69 minutes long, but they were, once your casting was announced,

it was like one picture of you that had come out. Tell you what, I'm a pot. No, they were like analyzing your costume and like how the feather was sitting on your hat and like it was just, you know, people were obsessed. Okay, so was there, were you aware of that fandom? Well, I had seen my partner's reaction so I knew that like there was gonna be expectation

and he hadn't been in any of the adaptations. Right. So I knew there was gonna be an appetite for it right but I also always sort of come back when when it was announced that I was whatever people found out I was playing Hamlet it was announced when it was announced that people I was playing Hamlet people would go you're not a bit scared. It's a lot, isn't it? That's a lot, that's a big deal.

As if it was this kind of burden. It's like, I like acting. This is a good part. Yeah, yeah, it's well written. Yeah, so I'm just going to enjoy acting with the part because I like acting. Yeah. And I guess, similar with this, it's like,

I might not be everyone's idea, but this is, I've been asked, so here's my opportunity and privilege to be able to discover what it means to me. Yeah, yeah. I've never been a part of something that has been wildly protected. I imagine people who are doing Marvel movies, this happens to them, but it probably you know, it probably even happened with

the James Bond films to some degree, but like, you know, they furiously protect the material. And I've... The script for James Bond is delivered by car, and if there are changes in the script, they are delivered by car. Really? Still, there's nothing's ever digital,

nothing's ever emailed. I mean, they got burnt. Yeah. So, I understand why they did it. I think I am, yeah. Yeah, great. Thank you very much. It's delicious.

How did you and Pandora meet? We met. First of all, I feel like people in England refer to their husbands and wives as partners way more than we do, although I know you're not legally married. We are legally, civilly partnered. You're civilly partnered.

Because after a while when you got kids, and we weren't legal, but calling some of your girlfriend is, so you sort of have to, and then even before we were civilly partnered, I was beginning to call her a partner. But then you also realized- Do you remember thinking about your civil partner?

That's pretty sexy. My seep-y. I, my seeps. My seeps, okay, because my seeps, Pandora. Okay, so you, how did you and Pandora meet? We met through my best friend, who I've known since I was two, and who is not in this industry,

but he is a graphic designer and designed some posters for a band that she, so she was a bassist in various bands. What age were you when you met her? I was 27. Oh wow. He got in touch with her and she said, I'm having a birthday party, invite a friend. And because she's quite small, she looks quite a bit younger

than she is. And we turned up and said, oh, it's your birthday. She went, yeah. Can I have a lollipop? She said, how old are you today? She went, how old do you think I am, knowing that most people fear quite a bit younger. I said, 33. And she went, yeah, I'm exactly 33.

Oh really? Yeah, I got it spot on. And it's that level of accuracy that she fell for. And yeah, we spoke for about 12 hours, and I said to my friend, that's it, I'm done. I'm gonna make her my CP. I need to make that woman officially legal within Lambeth's registrar. I love, um, I know you've told this story before, but I think it's so sweet. On one of your first dates, you bought a pair of, um,

We would call them rain boots. Yeah, you would call them, thank you. You might say sweet, some people might say creepy. We bought a pair of Wellington boots. Some kids were having like a garage sale and we were just going for a walk and I bought this pair of wellies and sort of in the back of my mind, maybe in the front, I was like, wonderful, our kids are worthies.

And they did. So there you were. Again, I was right. You were right. You were right. But yeah, you didn't tell her at the... I didn't at the time go. What did she think you were buying

these little tiny wellies for? I think she thought I was being adorable, helping out these kids. Aw. Make some money for their charity, whatever they were doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You didn't say these are for our future children.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I tried to put them on my own feet. I put them on my hands and walked on all fours down the street. Aw. When did you guys start discussing this? I put them on my own feet. I put them on my hands and walked on all fours down the street. Oh. When did you guys start discussing something you wanted to do? I think I wanted kids. When you meet the person that you know you're going to be with, that you want to be with,

you have to be with, you have to be with. You, it instantly becomes quite scary. Yeah, it does. You're so right. And also, I think the fact that we are both actors makes it so much easier to be able to go for it. If it takes you away, it takes you away. Or if we're going to be both working, we'll make it work. We love what we do, we wanna do it.

And as much as we love our kids, we're not gonna, you know, not do the thing we love. I mean, I think there's also, some advice that I've gotten from some of my friends is that, you know, you want your children to also see you pursuing the things that make you happy. That's setting a good example,

because you want them to do those things too. Okay. Okay. I don't know. But you know, I think that's- Okay, then polygamy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's important for the-

But daddy likes it. But daddy likes it. What? No. I think it's important that they see like, you know, you doing the things that make you happy, and like- Absolutely. I mean, but also, you get one shot at life.

Yeah. And I want them to take their shot at life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like I'm really lucky that I'm able to do the thing I love. I'm also with someone I love, and I have kids that I love. The riches are beyond compare. Yeah.

And again, I think that's probably like why when the show finishes, I go home. Yeah. Because you have a small window as, I mean, like, yes, you will be a parent to them for the rest of your life. You have a small window when you're absolutely integral to their day-to-day existence.

Right. And you don't want to waste it. As any parent says, things go by so fast. There is, for me, I do feel, relate deeply to what you're saying, there is a need to sort of grasp onto a little bit of each day. There are times where it's 24 hours where I don't get to see my kids because of work

and their nap schedules and their school schedules. And I feel that deeply. And I know I'm going to see them the next day. And I saw them the day before. But like, there's something about like, I can't believe a day has gone by in my kids' lives that I have not been able to be a part of it in a physical, meaningful, present way.

I did a show in LA, Our Flag Means Death, comedy show about pirates. And I hadn't realized that when I was going to go to LA and film, and because they had worked out my visa for me, that I could just come and go. I thought that was what it was going to be. And I got there, it was like, no, you have to reapply every time you go back to the UK

and it takes four to five weeks, you can't go home. Oh my God. And so I had to have the, and I'd never done more than 10 days away from them that time. How old were they at the time? So, was it, they were like 10 and seven. And then yeah, I just had to make the call and like, you know, I said it might be back in about 10 days.

It might be four months. And as always, for the first 48 hours, it's quite nice. You see new places and you get to have your own time. Yeah, that was me for the first week of this rehearsal process, I was like, this is great. I learned about myself. And then the enjoyment absolutely falls off a cliff. You feel you've never been lonelier.

Yeah. And I was faced with kind of formats. So yeah, in that sense of being really, really made really, really vivid, just how much I want to be around my family. Yeah. And try and, you know, what was great about the diplomat,

obviously filming in London, doing something that you thought was beautiful. Yeah, but then Keri Russell moved into the States. Well, yeah, so now I get a few trips to New York, so it's not too bad. Which, by the way, I said this to Keri, I was like, Rory's like a really good dancer. I don't know if I'd call what we're doing dancing,

but like, you know, I was just astonished. And still am at how quickly you pick up choreography and how you also remember what everyone else is supposed to do. Like if I make a mistake across the stage behind you, you somehow know about it. And I let everybody know. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you let everyone know,

including the audience. Come on. Including the audience. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Rhythmic mover. And she was like, I'm actually not surprised. I'm actually not surprised at all. You're coming from her.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, please, yeah. A real dancer. Like an ex ballerina. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you so much for doing this. I'm gonna let you get to- Thank you, Jesse.

I'll see you in approximately two minutes. Your warm up. Go ahead, go to warm up. Thank you. Dinner's on me. Don't worry about paying anything. Oh, it's all on the national theater. Dinner's on me.

You. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This episode of Dinner's on Me was recorded at Lasden at the National Theatre in London's South Bank. Next week on Dinner's on Me, you know him from the TV series

Catastrophe, Marvel's Deadpool and Wolverine, and more recently playing opposite Michelle Williams in the Hulu dramedy Dying for Sex, it's Rob Delaney. We'll get into his life as an expat, finding comedy in dark times, and he tells me about playing Michelle Williams' horny neighbor. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners on Me Plus. As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early,

you'll also be able to listen completely ad free. Just click try free at the top of the Dinners on Me show page on Apple podcasts to search your free trial today. Dinners on Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our producer in the UK is Grace Laker with production support from Matthias Torres Soleil. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcalfalf. Sam Baer engineered this episode.

Hans-Dael Schiet composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tamika Balanz-Klasny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.