Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - Russell Tovey — on why dogs are special and telling queer stories

Episode Date: July 8, 2025

‘Looking’ and ‘American Horror Story: NYC’ star Russell Tovey joins the show. Over samosas, Russell tells me about growing up as a queer kid in ‘90s Essex, dating using astrology, and his special bond with his pup Rocky. Plus, we get into his new film ‘Plainclothes,’ which made a splash at Sundance. This episode was recorded at Kricket in Shoreditch in East London. Want next week’s episode now? Subscribe to Dinner’s on Me PLUS. As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, but you’ll also be able to listen completely ad-free! Just click “Try Free” at the top of the Dinner’s on Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. A Sony Music Entertainment & A Kid Named Beckett production. Get 15% off your Saily plan with the code ⁠dinnersonme⁠. Just download the Saily app or head to ⁠https://saily.com/dinnersonme⁠. Stay connected — and don’t miss your dinner reservation. Stay connected — and don’t miss your dinner reservation. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So I'm currently traveling abroad in London right at the moment, which is why so many of my episodes have people with British accents right now. It's amazing here. I love it. Until I need directions or restaurant recs or anything, and I've got no Wi-Fi and sky-high roaming fees, which is just not cute. That's why I started using Salie. Salie is an easy-to-use eSIM app created by the folks behind NordVPN. It gives you instant mobile data in over 190 countries and you only have to install it

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Unlike some other top premium bottle water brands, Fiji's water electrolytes are 100% naturally occurring and Fiji's water has a perfect balance 7.7 pH. I have no idea what that means, but I like the word perfect score, okay? And since 2022, Fiji's water's 330 and 500 milliliter bottles have been made with 100% recycled plastic. So whether I'm backstage, at home with the kids,

or planning our podcast recording, I know I'm hydrating the earth's finest way. Fiji water. It's earth's finest water. Hey it's Jesse. Today on the show you know him from queer TV favorites like Looking and American Horror Story NYC. Also the upcoming romantic thriller Pl Plane Close, it's Russell Tobey. I used to fantasize about getting stabbed on the subway, just a surface wound, so that I'll have to go to hospital and I won't be able to do the show tonight, guys,

and it's the legit reason. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you end up just going mad. Yeah. This is Dinners on Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Today's guest is someone that I've admired for a very long time on stage, on screen, on Instagram.

Russell Tovey is one of those actors who just, he disappears into every role, whether he's breaking hearts in looking or chilling us to the core in American Horror Story NYC, or holding the emotional center of something as layered as the play Angels in America, which I've talked about so much in this podcast. Speaking of Angels in America,

he's a fellow theater kid at heart, and I mean that in the best possible way. We've both done our fair share of eight shows a week, and I've loved watching him on stage in the History Boys,. We've both done our fair share of eight shows a week. And I've loved watching him on stage in the History Boys, which I saw him do on Broadway, Angels in America. Also, I saw him in this incredible production of View from a Bridge at the Lyceum Theater on Broadway.

I actually got to go into the Lyceum Theater with my own show right after he left that theater. And I happened to have the dressing room right next to his old dressing room. Fun fact. He's also one half of Talk Art, which is one of my favorite podcasts about creativity, collecting,

and the weird, wonderful world of contemporary art. And also he's starring in a new film that just made a huge splash at Sundance called Plainclothes, which is gripping and gutting and honestly, eerily relevant. Russell lives in one of London's coolest neighborhoods, Shoreditch. It's kind of like the Silver Lake or Bushwick of London.

It's very cool. It's very hip. It's very artsy, just like Russell. So naturally I brought him just down the street to Cricket, a modern Indian restaurant that recently opened a new outpost right in the heart of Shoreditch. What started as a small pop-up in a shipping container in Brixton has taken off and is now a beloved London staple with locations throughout many parts of London. The space itself is a vibe. Gorgeous pink walls, minimalist

but warm, with subtle Indian influences and a calm, contemporary energy that fits right into the creative spirit of this neighborhood. I also knew it would be perfect for Russell because he's vegetarian and Cricket has a stellar reputation for its inventive vegetarian dishes. Okay, let's get to the conversation. I was listening to your podcast. I'm living in Battersea right now, while I'm here.

So I listened to an episode in the car coming over. It's really fantastic. You've been doing it a long time. Since 2018 we started it. And when we first started, people, a few people were like, it should be really pure. You should only be talking to artists. And also, how can you do an art podcast, because that's highly visual? How can you talk about it? But I was determined because I loved listening to our

Interviews on radios and conversations and you know you go back to the Getty archives There's all these incredible conversations with these amazing artists that have passed to You know, there's so much we don't know about the great artists of history because there is not a lot of recorded, you know, conversations about like what art meant to them. There's so much mystery, I think, about so many of the artists in our very, very great past. So I really love that, you know, obviously today,

so much is documented, but it's so interesting to have so many different perspectives and hopefully a hundred years from now These things that you know that you're a part of creating these conversations will be something that you know really Fill out like who these artists were and are and like what they mean to history You know back in the day the artist wasn't a celebrity the artist made the art and then they disappeared so now There's there's this real kind of anxiety, I think, around having to, especially for emerging artists,

having to be aware of what your practice is, what your message is. So I feel like our podcast has become a bit of a rites of passage for emerging artists, but I feel like we're a real safe space to sort of go just muse with us. And I'm really proud of that, and I'm really proud that we create this space for people just to sort of be authentic and vulnerable

but celebrated. I mean that's the beauty of podcasts you know that's why I love doing it you know it's an opportunity for people to sort of talk in long form and give context to their thoughts and not talk in soundbites. Hi how are you? I'm good, thank you. Welcome to Cricket. Thanks. In terms of Cricket, we are a modern Indian restaurant that we specialize in sharing plates. So for you guys, we would recommend about five dishes between you.

Also recommend a snack and a drink to start and then your food will follow as it's ready. We do have a menu set up. To start with, a Pistilla Sparkling Water. Sparkling. I'm great with sparkling. Yeah, I love the sparkling. And a drink to start. Coffee. I'll have a menu set up to start with a Pistilla Sparkling Water. Sparkling. I'm great with sparkling. Yeah, I love the sparkle. Amazing, and a drink to start? Coffee.

I'll have a Diet Coke, that's all right. Perfect. Do you have like a lemonade or an iced tea situation or something similar or? Oh, we do have some cold infusions here, like lemon ginger. We do have just fresh lemonade if you want. I'll do a lemon ginger.

Perfect. Yeah. Amazing, cold tea. But when did you first become interested in art? First of all, my producer Joanna, she's staying in Shortage. Great. And she was like,

I walked by Russell the other day in Shortage and he was carrying some big box and she's like, I'm certain it was art. Yes, it was art. Or dead body. It was square one. Yeah. Really flat. Or a dead body. It was square one. Yeah. Really flat.

A flat square one. Flat and framed. Yeah, no, that was a Wolfgang Tillmans photograph. Yeah. Wow, good spotting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So on brand. Yeah, right?

So on brand. Art. Art I've always loved since I was little. I loved cartoons growing up. Then I discovered pop art. So Roy Lichtenstein, Andy Warhol, Keith Haring, David Hockney, and I thought it was a reason not to grow up because I could go to museums and see these comic strips

on the wall when it was art, and I could still like cartoons, and that really inspired me. I loved like Ren and Stimpy growing up and then suddenly seeing them colors of Nickelodeon on the walls in like Ellsworth Kelly, them sort of just big orange canvases I found so inspiring. Then when I was 16, there was an art movement here

called the Young British Artist Movement in the 90s. So that's artists like Tracy Emin, Damien Hirst, Gavin Turk, Mark Quinn. And I'm working class, I'm from Essex, and a lot of the artists who were part of the Young British Artist Movement were working class. But they were in all the press, they were having these massive exhibitions, they were being collected, they were being discussed by museum boards. And it really inspired me, it felt like that was my invite into art

because if they're doing it then surely I'm allowed to be there because before that I'd go to museums and galleries and sort of keep my head down and apologize for being there because I felt like art was never given to me, never given to us I think in general which is one of the motives behind the podcast, but I feel like art was never presented to me as something that I could enjoy or be a part of or discuss, you know Nothing belongs to us art wise. I've sort of worked out over the years unless we have an opportunity to critique it Whereas you know we are given films, music all of our lives. And you can say, I like that album by Fleetwood Mac.

And I'll be like, that's not the best. I prefer this album by Fleetwood Mac. And you'll be like, respect. Whereas if you went, I don't like that painting. And I knew about the painting. I'd be like, oh, come on. You don't like that painting. You don't know what you're talking about.

And there's this sort of snobbery with art. So this podcast was a way of breaking down those sort of gatekeepers and breaking down the barriers of that and talking about it in a way that's like colloquial, you know, I don't know what the reference is and now if someone talks about something I'm like hold up can you just explain what that means because I want to learn and I think my mom's listening to this I want her to know what it is because as soon as she hears something she doesn't understand she shut out She's like, oh, I'm not not interested anymore they're talking about something that they're not including me right it's about being inclusive and excited and

enthusiastic and welcoming and I think that's what we've tried to do and hopefully achieved yeah yeah I love it I love your passion for it it's really I mean you have two snacks right now. We have Panna Puri. So Panna Puri is rice flour. Inside you have sun-dried tomatoes. And then the recommendation is to pour this tomato spicy broth halfway in. Eat it in one and it's like a explosion basically in your mouth. You have the recent artichoke samosas with the deep fried mash with a black garlic dip

on the side. Great. Lovely. Enjoy. Thank you. Do you want to start with this explosion in your mouth? Girl. I did look at you when that happened. Do I? You couldn't look me in the eye when you said that. Halfway. Halfway. Good explosion. That's a good explosion. It's a good one. Yeah, better than most. So you did years and years with Rory Kinnear, which I haven't seen but I watched the trailer of. He wanted me to ask, I said I was sitting down with you,

and he said he wanted me to ask you about singing karaoke in, where were you, where did you shoot it? Canal Street in Manchester. Yeah, in Manchester. Yeah, I mean we ended up in a karaoke gay bar on Canal. Canal Street's like the gay street, queer street of Manchester in the queer village. And you took Rory Kinnear? I took Rory Kinnear and Jessica Hines. Amazing.

And we went down and we sung karaoke down there. Neil Diamond, Sweet Caroline featured. My go-to is always John Legend, all of me are ordinary people. A bit of swing, I would pepper in there. I've got a few things that I've worked on. When karaoke's on, I'm quite serious about it. Really? Yeah.

Me and my friend Brad, years ago, we were going to 40th birthday in Brighton, and we stopped off at Karaoke Box, just him for an hour and we played karaoke songs and he would start singing I go no it's pitchy next one cancel I put one up and he'd be like you sound really good doing that I'm like great it's in my key right on my phone right your turn we just go right so then we have this roster of songs that's in my key that's in my key that's so funny. Karaoke seven times you start to sing and then they're like, oh no, it's gone up there. I always start to sing, I absolutely know a song and then I get to a part, I was like,

I have no idea how this goes. No, right, yeah, there's a section where you're like, I've heard this hundreds of times, why do I not know? I know like three songs confidently. What are those? I know, um, The Miley Cyrus, You Can't Stop. Wow. We can't stop, is that what it is?

Oh wow, you know it really well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I know Taylor Swift. No, historical. Historical. Cornelius Guy from Pippin. So that would be your go-to on karaoke? I was hoping you'd come up with some Fleetwood Mac or you'd be like...

No, those are the ones that I think I know and then I don't. You don't, wow. But you know Taylor Swift. I could do Neil Diamond, I could do. Sweet Caroline. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean everyone could do that. But that's like an obnoxious karaoke song. You'd do Neil, New York? Frank Sinatra, New York, New York? Oh, do you think it's obnoxious? Oh, Sweet Caroline, because then everyone's going,

and it's like the whole bar is saying, you like that? Is that obnoxious or is that not inclusive? I don't know. It's like, it's sort of like a cliche karaoke song. It's one of your go-tos. I'm sure you do it beautifully. I do. Yeah, but if it's a cliche, that's fine. Yeah, Rory I love. We did years and years and that was an incredibly special job. And we were playing brothers in it and we were part of a family, the Lyons family.

And I just adore him, absolutely adore him. He's so funny. Naturally just like so funny. And he'll say something and then you'll take a couple seconds and you'll be like, that is fucking funny. He's hilarious. These are the Cheyado butter prawns. They are butter-fried and grilled. And then underneath you've got a butter and mustard-flavoured sauce. You've got lime and ginger.

On top you've got a butter brush on the prawns, and then you've got curry leaf. Well, you have those because I'm vegetarian. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You have these other samphire pakoras. So samphire is deep- fried with chickpea flour. This creates this. You've got tamarind chutney.

And then this, you've got a chili garlic mayonnaise. Lovely. And then this is bell purée. It's like a street food. Got raw mango, coriander, and then it's topped with some yogurt and tamarind chutney as well. So that's veggie? Yes.

Great. Perfect. Thanks. Thanks. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we return, Russell opens up about being a queer kid in London in the nineties when homophobia was in vogue. Something I can definitely relate to.

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And we're back with more Dinners on Me. Talk to me a little bit about growing up in Essex. And, you know, I'm like you, I've known for a long time that I was gay. I grew up in Albuquerque, New Mexico, which was not an easy place to grow up and be gay. It's very centrally located in the United States. At the time that I was growing up there, it was a very red state.

Big art scene there, wasn't it? Art studios. There is now, yeah, I mean, like, George O'Keefe is from that region. A lot of really fantastic art. Bruce Nauman and Susan Rappenberg has studios there. Yeah, that's right. And I think, I don't know how long that has been a part of that culture, but

certainly now when I go back it feels like there's been great progress made and it's a very LGBTQ inclusive environment. I find it not the most inclusive, but certainly more so than when I grew up there. I don't know a ton about Esse Essex but it seems to me it's a little bit more rugged and more working-class. What was it like growing up there? I assumed you were closeted for a bit of the time that you were... Well I mean aren't we all really? But what's kind of upsetting for queer people of a certain generation, and thank God it's not the case now for many, many people, but is that you carry shame from an incredibly young age that what you're feeling or thinking

isn't the status quo. Yeah. And that's so sad when you look back now that I, at the age of four, was having these thoughts and feelings, but I knew that I had to hide it because society, the environment, made me feel like it wasn't okay. And thank God that has changed. So it wasn't an environment because there was no, we're also at a time when representation in media as role models, possibility models, which Laverne Cox

calls it, which I love that phrase so much. It wasn't any. The press was all about HIV and AIDS. We had a homophobic government. We had, I'm under the education of Section 28, and I don't know if you know what that is, but this was put in by Thatcher's government that in education schools could not promote homosexuality, so if any kids thought that they were gay, they were not able to talk about it. So it became even more alienating and you felt even more like society didn't want you. And so there was never this option that you could be gay, gay you could be straight It was always like that's not an option So that having that you know growing up having that sort of mentality and then coming out and then coming of an age when you are

Interested you know discovering your sexuality at a time of AIDS then you then Having them thoughts where I confused sex and death. And I would think of pleasure could mean that I would die. And from the age of 14, 15, terrified of getting anything, terrified that I was just going to die. And that is so much to have to sort of unpack as you get older. And I'm so in awe and happy that there is this young generation now that don't even consider death with sex at

the same time. But for like us, and I'm sure for you, for our generation, it was just like this middle generation where I came out when there was medication. So you weren't dying, but it was still like that was what the press was about. I remember that we had an advert here, and every British gay man will tell you this, every British queer person will tell you this for a certain age where John Hurt did the voiceover and it was the

tombstone that's saying don't die of ignorance and this tombstone would just drop and it was just like bell chiming and it was like death you're going to die and that was on the news that was on like the tv so you'd be watching TV at home with your family, and then suddenly this advert would come on. Just being as a kid going like, what the fuck is that? Terrifying. And you're sitting in a room with your parents.

Terrifying, going like, and they don't know that that's me, that's about me. So, but I think, you know, Essex is a wonderful place, but as a gay person, you know, I feel like we always flock to the metropolis. It's quite rare that, you know, within families that the queer kid will stay close to home. They normally have to go and find a community where they're more. So I knew that London for me, as a creative person, definitely, but as a gay person, I was like, I can't be who I'm meant to be unless I'm in the metropolis.

Yeah. When I was reading about your family, I mean, so much of your history, I resonate with specifically the evolution that your parents went through, you know, accepting your homosexuality and, you know, on their own timeline, which is I... The thing that I... it was really refreshing to hear is that it probably... and I think this is probably actually true for many queer kids, but it takes a lot longer than we would like. for many queer kids, but it takes a lot longer than we would like. You know, I know you had a very, very unique relationship with your father specifically.

But first of all, I wanna know what your relationship with him is like now. It sounds like he's grown quite a bit. Oh, he's amazing. Our parents are amazing. It feels like a different time. It feels like a sort of crazy few years. You know, there's no, this possibility model thing.

You know, as an actor, I put it in a reference as an actor, I wanted to be an actor from a young age. I got into like stage school. My dad was like, I don't want you to go to stage school because he's worried that it was, my acting was just going to be something that I did as a kid and then I would go and get a regular job because there was no actors.

There was no, there was nobody who who we knew no friends or family or anything This was a possibility. So as an actor as a kid going like that's what I want to do It was it was very very abstract very abstract. I'm very much like well, what is that? What does that look like? So it's the same when you're of that generation a gay person when you realize you're queer Is that there's no other way of going all you know is you know at that time was death, was AIDS, was tragedy, was sadness, was loneliness that you know because everything that the journalists were putting out the tabloids are putting out was homophobic so the consensus was is that this is wrong right so when you come out it's more a place of fear of

like what why why would you do that to yourself and it's more a place of fear. Of like, what? Why would you do that to yourself? And it's like you have no choice. This option of choice just wasn't a thing. So I completely, I got it then, I get it now. And thank God everything's changed. For like many, many people. Yeah.

You know. I mean, it's crazy because we are, you know, living in a time now specifically in America where so much of that's being rolled back and it's so terrifying. The fear and the headlines are really, they're dangerous. You know, they're incredibly dangerous and it's a scary time I, to be an openly queer person, specifically in America. I mean, again, I don't know how it is everywhere, but I speak very, very honestly

about how it feels in America, and it's not great. But does that not make you feel, you know, my hero is Derek Jarman, and this is a quote I say a lot. He said in the late 80s, if you wait long enough, the world moves in circles. And he said that in the late 80s, where the rhetoric was very homophobic, we had Section 28, which I've just talked about, you know, gay men were just seen as dying of AIDS.

It was a very unfortunate time. Now here we are, like 30 years later, it's transphobia in the press. The way that, you know, civil rights are being taken back, from human rights being taken back from people, things are being reversed. Everything that we thought was concrete is now becoming liquid. That's what we're in, but there's gotta be hope that it is cyclical and it will come around.

And in our lifetime, it's going to get worse, but it has to get better. Harvey Milk says, you've gotta give them hope. We can't feel like this is it. And as a gay man, as a queer person, I feel more emboldened than ever to be like, fuck you. This is it. We exist.

Nothing is going to change. We're not going to go anywhere. We're only going to get stronger. Keep making queer content. Keep telling those gay stories. Keep putting it out there. Because you have to. And for someone like you and for someone like me,

we become these beacons because we become ambassadors for a whole community and we may not set out to do that, but by proxy you do. Because if you become successful in a minority, you become an ambassador for it. And we have to own that space and go cool. We have to be visible and we have to say, this is an honest, authentic, kind, genuine life that's

full of love, full of hope, kindness. We're good people and it makes me more than ever just keep making them stories and not shy away from it. And it's going to get harder because funding's not going to be there, people aren't going to want to back it. Same with like queer artists. We have to do more. We have to do more and we have to do more. We have to do more, and we have to do more for trans people and the fact that we have to protect them within our own community, because there's this sense within the community

that there's like this distancing that's starting to happen that terrifies me. And I'm like, absolutely not, no way. We have to like, we as a community first have to like protect our own bring them in yeah And then become stronger and you know there comes a time when you do go You have to say you have to just be like Out there saying these things

Because the world is fucked the world is terrifying and yes, we're receiving more information ever but every single day It's something but every single day is something horrific. And we're all so fatigued now and so paralyzed that there has to be hope. It's all we have, isn't it? And you've got to, you know, whatever you can do, you have to. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Russell shares why a play drove him to a full breakdown.

And I'll share the time one of my biggest onstage fears actually came true. Fun times. Okay, be right back. You know, back when Modern Family ended, I was suddenly managing my own projects. One of those things I was also trying to manage was my calendar. So I will double book something so fast, don't even test me. There are times when I actually literally had recordings

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Quince.com slash JTF. And we're back with more Dinners on Me. One of the pressures I've always felt, well specifically after being on a show like Modern Family where I'm portraying a gay man on a television show on network that is as popular as it is, is that there was a, you know, you receive criticism as you do with anything you do.

But the criticism that I think I heard the loudest was always from the gay community feeling as if like maybe I didn't represent their idea of what a gay relationship was or a gay man was Which I always took with such a grain of salt because like I'm representing one person. I'm in charge of this one character This is how can you be? It also was a shade of who I was so it's like you're kind of like, you know, if it's stereotypical, I'm basically playing myself. So I guess, you know, guilty. Guilty is charged.

But what I love so much about a lot of the work that you've done is you play a lot of closeted men who are very conflicted, both on stage and on film and in television. And there's like a struggle with masculinity in a lot of your characters. I find really interesting. I mean, have you thought about like how these roles keep coming to you and how you are you drawn to the complexities of these characters?

A hundred percent. I mean, I decided very early on in my career to come out. So I was playing a lot of gay roles probably at a time when people weren't choosing to play as many gay roles. And I was like, great. You know, when I did Looking, I remember that being a show on HBO, which I loved. But you talking about how people were sort of saying that you weren't doing enough to represent or you were sort of narrowing down representation because of the role. And you're like, well, how can you take that on, A?

But Looking was a show that, within the gay blogosphere, people were saying it didn't represent them. And there was this buzz that it was boring. And we would be filming in San Francisco, and people would be like, oh, what are you shooting? And we'd be like, we're shooting Looking. They'd be like, oh, that's boring. We'd be like, have you seen it?

They'd be like, no, I just heard it. They'd be like, watch it. It's in your town. It's in your city. It's about like, friends. I loved Looking. It was one of town. It's in your city. It's about like friends. It was one of the most beautiful jobs I've ever done. Loved it. And I was so devastated when it finished, but so happy we got to do the film.

But it was, that was like so, like now people find it now. That's the beauty of streamers is like 10 years on people are discovering it. And they were like kids when it was on. And now for them it's like an incredibly important show and they binge it all and they relate to all these characters and it makes sense. It was way ahead of its time. If that show come out now,

it'd have a different impact altogether. One of the first things I saw you in was History Boys and I saw it on stage when you came to Broadway with it. Did you do it at the National? Where did it, it was at the National? It was at the National, yeah. At the W Yeah. At which theater? In the Littleton. That's where I am. Yeah. So he was in Littleton. Originally it was only booked for about 45 shows and then we kept extending. You did two years? It worked out in two years.

We extended a show so much and then during the summer holiday when the schools were shut here we shot the movie in a school and then we went around the world for nine months So we started in Hong Kong Sydney, New Zealand, and then we was on Broadway for about six months, right? It was wild times. It was it's an incredible play Richard Griffiths was absolutely astonishing at it I know I want to ask you about him, but also you're James Corden Dominic Cooper What was it like putting that that show together? Did you know it was going to be, did it feel special when you were rehearsing? Sometimes so many of these things, you know you're in a rehearsal room,

you're like, I don't know what this is going to be. Well, by the time we got to Broadway, we'd already performed it like 300 times. So, you know, overall we did about 550 performances. Wow. Now, you go mad. You go absolutely mad. Yeah.

And with nostalgia, I'm always like, oh, it's so brilliant so great but James Corden always reminds me that I Used to fantasize about getting stabbed on the subway just a surface wound so that I could have a show off I would leave the show I'd get on I'd get on a subway and someone would slash me and then I'll have to go to Hospital and I won't be able to do the show tonight guys, and it's legit reason Yeah, you end up just going mad. Yeah.

Because it's like you're tricking your brain and you're there again. You're like, this is never-ending. I'm making this fresh. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaking about missing a show, when I was doing Spelling Bee, it was New Year's Eve and we had a weird show scheduled. So I think we had like a 2 p.m. matinee instead of a 3 p.m.

I completely forgot. It's the winter. I'm wearing a like a 2 p.m. matinee instead of a 3 p.m. I completely forgot. It's the winter, I'm wearing a big heavy winter jacket, my phone's inside the jacket, I probably had my headphones in. It was ringing, it was vibrating, I wasn't feeling anything, the stage manager was wondering where I was. I arrived to the theater at, you know,

what I thought was my half hour, 2.30. The show had been going on for a half hour already. And it's circledling the Square Theater on Broadway where you have to, the only way backstage is to walk through the audience. So I remember walking in, I was like, gosh, I mean, I know the weather is bad, but like there is no one here.

Like I know it's New Year's Eve, but no one is at the theater, right? So I walk into the theater, I walk down the stairs into the lobby, no one's in the lobby, like this is very strange. We can have an audience today. I walk into the theater, I walk down the stairs into the lobby, no one's in the lobby, like this is very strange. We can have an audience today. I walk into the auditorium and the show's going on.

That is like nightmare. And I see my understudy on stage. No. Who had never rehearsed it. I would absolutely shit myself. I was like, I thought I was having a nightmare. I thought it was a fever dream. Yeah, I was like, this is like literally a nightmare.

And so I went into the stage manager's booth and they were just so happy to see me. They thought I like, it's not like me just to not show up. And they did not know where I was. And I looked at my phone, I had like 39 missed calls from them. So I ended up staying and watching the show

and my understudy got really mad at me for watching. Oh really? Yeah, he's like, I don't like that you watch. It was my first time going on. I was like, I didn't, this was not planned. What else was I going to do? I was like, I might as well watch it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And, was he good? Yeah, I loved it. He was great. Oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've only, I really fucked up on a film. I did Hallelujah, which was an Alan Bennett play. And I had, before the day's filming, I had a podcast,

and I've got like an intercom on my wall, and it goes like, if someone knocks the door, and there's some people getting food deliveries, and if they can't get through to that flat, they will buzz my flat. My dog will go, so I took the intercom off for the podcast, and didn't put it back on. And I went to bed, and my battery was low on my phone,

and I charged it up, I hadn't turned the plug on. And I was meant to get picked up at 5.30 in the morning to do this scene. I wake up, look at my phone, turn it on, I was like, oh, it hasn't charged, plug it in, there's literally like 30 missed calls. And I'm like, what the fuck? And I go, what's the time?

And I roll over and it's like 8 a.m. No, you're so late today. And I'm like, what the fuck? So I pick up my phone, my agent's like, are you okay? Like, thinking, I've done something terrible. I'm like, yeah, what's happened? What's happened? She went, my agent's like, are you okay? Like, thinking I've done something terrible. I'm like, yeah, what's happened? What's happened? She went, they've been trying to call you,

trying to pick you up. I said, why didn't they buzz the fucking door? And they went, they have been buzzing the door. And I went, oh, I didn't put the thing back on. So the driver had been outside since like 5.30 a.m., buzzing the door, ringing my phone. So I turned up on set with Derek Jacobi, Jennifer Saunders, Judi Dench, all waiting for me.

All shifting scenes around, hanging out, waiting for me to turn up on set. It was the most horrific feeling. How far into the shoot were you? Had you developed relationships with these people, or was it still new? Yeah, they were fucked off about it. They were like, they were like,

they were like, you're over. No, I think probably a few weeks, but it was just, and Richard Ayer was like, you'll never do that again. I said, I will never do that again. But the feeling where you're literally like, I'm not even on set. I've got to get to set. You're so far away from being ready.

And they were on camera at like 7.30 a.m. And I'm still at 8.30 in bed. Oh, horrific. Like it's giving me the sweats now, just telling the story. So this is your butternut squash. The squash is grilled and it comes in a Macani sauce made with tomatoes, rich flavors in there, it's very sweet. You've got the burnt garlic, taco bell.

The garlic is basically cooked until nearly burnt to give it some sweetness in there. You've got your human rice and then this is a brown butter prato. Oh, that looks incredible. God. Lovely, I've got some spoons so. Okay.

Thanks man, thank you, thank you. Are you, do you ever talk about dating or your love life? Like what's happening? I'm single. You're single, okay. Yeah, that's my love life. Do you find it hard to meet people with, you know, people knowing who you are?

Yeah. Or is it? Yeah, it's not hard to meet people with people knowing who you are? Yeah. Or is it? Yeah. It's not hard to meet people at all. I'm very social. And it's a weird scenario when you date and you're in the public eye. And you sit down and they know who you are. So much about you.

They can find out all the information, and your question is like, sorry, what's your name again? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's a real imbalance with dating, but that's just something, you know, boo-hoo, is what it is, but you just have to sort of get your head around.

Yeah. My thing with dating now is that I want to know star signs. I've not been someone that's been to astrology all my life, but I like to go like, what's your star sign? And then I look back and I'll be like, and you know, and I've got star signs of exes that I'm trying to avoid. So I'm like, if they're that star sign,

I'm like, what's mine, Scorpio? But when you're dating, it seems really basic and like ridiculous, but I do go, oh, okay, cool. It goes like, you are compatible. And I like being in a relationship, that's great. Do you? I like having a witness. Yeah.

I feel like it's someone, you know, what we do is, there's some wonderful perks. You're here with your family, they're experiencing that with you, that's wonderful. I've had wonderful perks. And you sort of go, this is all lovely, upgrade on a plane, nice hotel. If you share it with someone,

I'm someone that I love sharing stuff. And I love, you know, hopefully my friends would say that I was a generous person. And it feels to me, I feel like, it's a shame when it's just for me. And when you're with someone, that's a great way of doing that, experiencing that and having that witness to go like,

this is what I've achieved, this is what I'm doing in my life. That's great. But also, finding that in yourself is equally as important, which is the journey we all go on when you can be your own boyfriend, you know, and be your own champion and be your own witness. And know, and be your own champion and be your own witness.

And your friends and your family are that. And your dog, he sees everything. A movie you worked on recently, Plainclothes? Yeah, so we were at Sundance and it won the Grand Jury Prize, the best ensemble at Sundance, which was amazing. We shot it last year, upstate in Syracuse, writer-director first time called Carmen Emi, me and Tom Blythe. And it's about a mall that's being targeted by police officers, gay men that are cruising. And I'm a target, but then something happens and then myself and the police officer launch

into something else unbeknownst. So it was again a heavenly, beautiful job, like a month up in Syracuse in the snow. Absolutely loved it. One of those jobs you come away going like, that was a great experience. If that becomes something else, amazing. If it doesn't, just the memories are great.

And then to be, you know, win a Sundance Award now we're at South by Southwest London in competition. So it's a whole thing. It's getting like a life. And that is so exciting because indie films is what I've always, always, always wanted to do and always inspired by and like strive to do. And I want to sort of, you know, really make as many

pieces possible to this film because it's beautiful. And I just feel really excited. Yeah. It's interesting. It's also a bit of a period piece in itself, you know, taking place, it's in the 90s, right? I just find it interesting that you keep like,

kind of going back and exploring gay history in a way. Yeah, because I think that's what I was surrounded by when I first sort of started to see myself. But it's like, it's almost, you are reclaiming it in a way, and in a very interesting way, because it's like, it's almost, you are reclaiming it in a way, in an interesting way, because it's something that I think, I don't know, just as I sort of like zoom out on even our conversation today, just so you're talking about your parents and like how all these

elements of gay history are kind of what made you tentative to be truthful with yourself and also made your parents scared for reasons that they had you know and then you know as An artist now in your 40s like you're now kind of re-examining Those points of history and like it's really interesting that you it's it's like reclaiming them in a way I love that I've never really thought of it like that. I really love that. Yeah, there's gotta be a reason why I'm Attracted to that and why I'm attracted to that. I made a documentary tonight, it's called David Rebiliard, whose studio was the next rodover,

who died in 1988 when he was 36. I discovered his work around the age of 36, which made me then go, this doesn't make any sense. Nothing makes any sense. If I'd have been born 10 years earlier, that could have been me. Or we'd have met, or we'd have been lovers, or we'd have hated each other, or I'd be dead. And Derek Jarman, and Peter Hujar, and David Wanyarowicz,

and you know, Robert Mapplethorpe, and so many artists that died of AIDS that have had such a huge, Keith Haring, have had such a huge impact on my identity and who I want to see myself, that I just feel emboldened to highlight and tell these stories. Yeah.

For sure. But it's really interesting, I've never really thought of it like that, but thank you for, I'm going to muse on that. Muse on it a bit. I will, baby. Do you, is Rocky still with you? Rocky's 12.

Rocky's 12. Rocky's your incredible bulldog, so cute. Yeah, Rocky's 12. Rocky's 12. Rocky's an incredible bulldog. So cute. Yeah, he's amazing. 12 years. 12 years, 13. He's a Scorpion. He's 13 in November.

Your most consistent relationship? 100%. He's been my witness. He's been beside me, my best friend in the world. He's slept next to me in the bed for 12 years, nearly 13 years. He's got one eye, arthritis. He's now next to me in the bed for 12 years, nearly 13 years. He's got one eye, arthritis. He's now gone completely deaf. I think he had a mini stroke a couple of weeks ago.

It's the biggest privilege of my life, is being burdened with him. And he is a total miracle. I think pets are miracles, dogs especially, because we have a direct communication with another species, and we don't speak the same language. But I know what he's thinking, he knows what I'm thinking, and with a look, or with like a movement in bed, and you're like, okay, I think it's an absolute miracle. And there's this line from a radio show that I heard once, someone pointed me towards,

that dogs are the secret loophole that allow British people to talk to each other. And it's so true. Because if you started talking to someone on the street, they would walk away from you. But with a dog, good old chin wag. I don't know your name, I know your dog's name. He is the most wonderful mate I've ever had in my life. And it's going to be horrific. But I know that, right, I know that I've been devoted to him.

Yeah. And that thing about, you know, they're there for part of your life, but you are there whole life. And I hope that, you know. Yeah. Yeah. It's really really special I'm a dog owner too and I you know that all resonates with me. Did you ever want to

be a dad? Yeah sure. Do you still want to be a dad? I don't know how I feel about it now. I don't know I've got so much I'm doing I'm so busy that it's you have to be dedicated to you have to be dedicated to, you have to be like, this has to be a decision. I think the switch would go one down and be like, okay, I'm ready to do it now. But, no, I used to be very, very, I wanted it a lot, now that's waning. Just saying.

I think I've covered almost everything. Is there anything else we should talk about? I've got a kids book coming out. You have a kids book? Yeah. So this is, we've written three kids, three art books for Talk Art. And the first one was the Sunday Times bestseller.

Incredible. Which is a guide to the art world. It's all books that I would have wanted when I was younger to have found these sort of things. The second one was a lot of the interviews that we'd done over the podcast that people could read because I love reading interviews. And then this one is a kids book, Nine Plus,

and it's sort of an art school in a book, so it's a lot of contemporary artists, but artists that are past, modern artists, and it's like a call to arms. You see these artists, say for example, you're looking at Matisse's The Snail, which is that big collage work, do you know that one that's in the tape? So we'll be talking about that work and then we'd say like, call to arms at the end, what

insect or what animal would you make and what colours would you use and how would you sort of collage that? So it's inspiring young artists basically and if you're not one of being artists, it's inspiring you to be an art lover from a young age. So that comes out in October. It's available for pre-order now. Okay. Absolutely plug that please. I love that. I studied art history in high school.

All right. And if I hadn't become an actor, I think I would have pursued a art history degree. I didn't have a very good history teacher. But my art history teacher was absolutely incredible. And I... That's such a difference, isn't it? I went to high school and the drama teacher was great and she put me in shows and she really championed my appreciation of it. And that made such a difference.

Right. That to have those teachers, then whatever it is that just inspire you is so important. Teachers shouldn't be overlooked really for what they can do. Absolutely. Yeah. Wait, I remember reading that you had to drop out of your school play. That was at college. To do a commercial?

Was it college? That was college, yeah. I was, I'd left school, so I was 16 at college. My nan at the time lived two doors away, so I used to get a roast dinner every lunchtime. I was like the size of a house, but I was happy. And we had, the second year had the main show, and they were doing Rent musical,

like a montage, we have a bit, and I was in the chorus of Rent, because when you're in the first year, you didn't really get lead roles, you had to build up to that. I had an agent at the time, which they were slightly dubious about. So we had this show, I was doing like the RRs in the background of Seasons of Love. And then the Millennium Dome had just been built which is now the 02.

So I filmed this like short film and I got a McDonald's commercial. So I said to the music teacher, I said, listen, I'm not gonna be able to do the show. I've got this advert and I've got that sort of clashes. And she said to me, oh, you know what? Just call your agent, say thank you very much for the work, but you're gonna be doing the college show. And I was like, oh, no, I don't think I'm gonna do that.

I don't think I'm gonna do that actually. And she's like, well, the thing is, as you leave now, you probably won't ever work again. Were her words. And I remember going to do that actually. She's like, well, the thing is, though, if you leave now, you probably won't ever work again. Ah, were her words. And I remember going, oh, interesting. I'm going to do the film and the advert. And I did. And then they didn't invite me back. So I got a letter saying, we're not inviting you back

for the next term. But then I had friends who were younger than me, like cousins and stuff, and they wanted to do a performing arts BTEC course. And they would be given the tour and then it'd be like Yes, well Russell Tovey went here. That's right. Oh, yeah. How interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah how interesting? Yeah, I've always been very fascinated with your career and the work that that finds its way to you So I think you know, I'm excited to see what you do next. It's my new I'm gonna come see the show

Obviously come see the show. Yeah, thanks for doing me. I'm going to come see the show, obviously. Please come see the show. Thanks for doing this. Of course. Thank you for doing these yourself. They're vital. Thank you. Thank you. And Dinner's On Me. Oh, okay. Okay.

Thank you. This episode of Dinner's On Me was recorded at Cricket in Shoreditch, East London. Next week on Dinners on Me, British Olympic diver and the subject of the new BBC Select documentary 1.6 Seconds, it's Tom Daley. We'll get into going to the Olympics for the first time at the age of 13, being half of a high-profile queer couple with his partner Dustin Lance Black, and how being a father has changed not only the way he dives, but the way he lives.

And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners On Me Plus. As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad free. Just click try free at the top of the Dinners On Me show page on Apple Podcasts to search your free trial today. Dinners On Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions.

It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our producer in the UK is Grace Laker. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcalf. Sam Baer engineered this episode. Hans-Dale Sheeck composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison.

Special thanks to Tamika Balanz-Klasny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.