Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - Side Dish: More with Jill Biden

Episode Date: September 3, 2026

More of my interview with former First Lady Dr. Jill Biden. Dr. Biden tells me about a difficult request she made of then First Lady Michelle Obama, how it was becoming Second Lady then First Lady while keeping her career as a college teacher and why she was emphatic about continuing to work. Plus, we here more about what it’s like to be a student in Dr. Biden’s class. This episode was recorded at Culina at The Four Seasons in Beverly Hills, CA. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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SAP Grow is built to grow with your business, no matter its size. With AI embedded at its core, working across every system, all ready to go from day one so you can hit the ground running. Bring it with SAP Grow. AI Cloud ERP for any size business. Hey, it's Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Here's a little side dish from this week's episode of Dinner's On Me. This week, I was at Kulina at the Four Seasons Beverly Hills with former First Lady, Dr. Jill Biden. Now, you know her as the former First Lady of the United States and as a lifetime educator,

and now she's the author of a view from the East Wing, a memoir. Over dinner, we get into her fiercely protective relationship with her family, the complicated role she stepped into as Second Lady and then First Lady. and why she fought to keep teaching, even when people around her told her she couldn't. But to get back into the conversation, you're pulling up a chair as Dr. Biden tells me about the moment

that former First Lady Michelle Obama wanted to come to her mother's funeral and why Jill had to ask her to not attend. I mean, the other thing that really struck me in your book, again, talking about how fiercely you protect those you love. And I found this so striking. And also because I love... her so much as well, but when Michelle Obama wanted to come to your mother's funeral.

Yeah. And it was just like a no-brainer. Yeah. Yeah. She called me. I'll be there. I'm there to support you. And you were the oldest of four?

Five. Five. Oldest five. And you said to her, this is going to be so difficult for my sisters. And if you come, it's going to be about me. Yeah. That took a lot of courage for me to say that to Michelle. Yeah.

Because they had just chosen Joe, because it was 2008. It was October 5th, so it was a month before the election that my mom died. And I didn't really know her that well. We knew one another as Senate spouses. Sure. She was in Chicago working. I was working in Delaware. And it took a lot of courage.

for me to be able to say that to her, because I thought, how is she going to take it, or her feelings are going to be hurt? Is she going to be angry? But, you know, I mean, and this is who Michelle is. I mean, she got it right away. I mean, she got it right away. She didn't, we didn't have to talk about it. We didn't have to, you know, she just said, I understand.

She just, you know, what a gift she gave to me. Because it was true. I mean, can you imagine if she showed up at my mother's funeral and everybody would focus on that? I had four sisters. I was the oldest. I was now the mother. And so you're right. I had to be protective of them as they were grieving.

I mean, it was my job actually to plan the funeral, pick the music, pick the reception afterwards. I mean, I did it all because I don't know whether you've lost a parent. Yeah, my mom died about a year and a half ago. Yeah, it's very hard. It's very hard. And someone tends to fill that void in the family because that person is gone, but all the things that that person did still remain, you know, planning the Christmas, you know, all that stuff.

And in an instant, that was my new role. So Michelle was amazing. Yeah. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Dr. Biden tells me what it was like balancing life as first lady with her career as college teacher, the first lady to do so. And the creative workaround she did to jump from roll to roll. Okay, be right back. You know those nights when you suddenly realized it's 7.30.

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London. And then afterwards, we escaped to the coast of Spain for a few days, which was great. Beckett and Sully have basically become these little beach kids. And, you know, I'm doing what I do best, which is finding the nearest umbrella and aggressively avoiding the sun. Now, as nice as it is to get away, I always have that moment where I think, well, you know, while we're away, new memories, our house is just sitting there empty, which got me thinking, if you're traveling this summer, you can make your space work for you and list it on Airbnb. Why not give someone else a cozy home away from home while they travel and make a little extra cash in the process? And if you've ever thought, okay, no, that sounds like way too much work, Airbnb has made it

a lot easier with our co-host network. It's a network of experienced local hosts who can help take care of everything, from prepping your home to welcoming guests, so you don't have to do it all yourself. It's a pretty smart way to make the most of your home while you're off making memories somewhere else. Find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. And we're back with more dinners on me. Now, I mean, I always find this also very interesting anytime I talk to people in politics, because not always. I mean, there are those where cases, the Clintons, where they're both like

these super powerful people in politics and they are firing on all cylinders. But most cases, Michelle being one, you being one, like, I mean, I think there was, I don't want to say resistance to that world, but you had your own lives. You had your own things that you were doing.

And I can't think of too much, many other careers or any other positions of, you know, that you can be assigned to where you really do have to take on the expectations of a legacy and there are certain things you're expected to do and certain things you're not expected to do. And I mean, I want to get into that a little bit, but, but as a teacher and as someone who deeply loves to you, teaching. And first of all, thank you for being a teacher. Oh, thank you for saying that. You know, you are the... I loved it. Loved it. The best work possible. I love teachers. I loved my teachers. I love my kids' teachers. I mean, I just, I love meeting teachers and talking to teachers.

But what was that like for you to know that you were going to have this new position? First, as second lady and then as, as first lady. I mean, I know you talk about it a little bit and the pressures that were put around like whether or not you were going to continue with this career. But walk me through kind of what was going on emotionally for you. Well, so if you think about it,

I gradually grew into the role because I married Joe when he was a senator. And I didn't know what that was really going to entail. But I was pretty busy with the kids. and their lives and I was teaching. I was going to grad school. So, and doing Joe's

political career too. But I pulled back a lot because of the kids. Or we'd take the kids with us when we would go to events. And I didn't do a lot of speaking. I was scared to death to speak in public.

That surprises me as a teacher. No, I felt so comfortable in my classroom. Yeah. But then to go in front of a crowd and talk about, I don't know, like infrastructure actor, you know. I mean, it wasn't my thing. So anyway, it took me a while to, so maybe I sort of put my, dip my toe in. But then a second lady, I had to grow in that role because mostly I was making my own speeches,

but I was introducing Michelle a lot. That was my role. And then once Joe was chosen as president, I thought, I better get good at this because I'm going to have to do a lot of it. And I forced myself. I would practice my speeches. I mean, I, you know, I'm a teacher. I mean, I studied. I forced myself to get good at it.

So. Yeah. But, you know, I, um. I found, well, for us, I mean, politics, being in politics, it's not like a job, it's a lifestyle. You live it 24 hours. And that was true as a senator, VP, and then president. There were meetings constantly.

The phone was constantly ringing. There were briefings to be read. There were events to be planned. There were schedules. I mean, it was. constant. It was so busy. And Joe couldn't have done it by himself, I don't think. And I was a partner.

But how, I mean, it just seems like such a full-time thing mentally even. Oh, mentally, yeah. How do you compartmentalize another career? Okay, there you go. That's how you do it. Yeah. And I'm good at that. You are.

You have to be. Yeah. So when I was in the classroom, totally 100%. When I was at a political event, you know, when I was sitting on a soccer field watching my kids' games. So I just, you have to do that to survive. Are there any, I can imagine there must be so many interesting stories if you having to go from one mode to the, other. Oh, yeah. I mean, all the time. And when I was first lady, I was teaching full time. And a lot of times, I would have to take my dress to school with me, change in the ladies room, pray no one who is going to walk in there, and then go to an event. Wow. I mean, that happened a lot. Or change, you know, put on your high heels in the car or whatever. Sure, yeah, yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of that, a lot.

Oh, wow. And I mean, I also, I knew that this was happening because it was sort of in the press when it was going on. But you know, you talk about it in the book sort of from your perspective of that question of whether or not you're going to keep teaching. And this pressure then if you are going to keep teaching, are you going to keep your salary? And, you know, being encouraged maybe to do volunteer work instead. And you're. Yeah, that's not going to happen. Yeah, that's like I happen. And although sometimes I feel like teachers are so underpaid that they're doing like the best volunteer work ever. Amen. I feel the same way. Yeah. But I mean, talk to me a little bit about that negotiation that you have. Well, you know, I had gotten two master's degrees and a doctorate. Yes.

And I got my doctorate when I was 55 years old. I walked across that stage. And once I did that, you know, when Joe was elected, vice president and they said well we don't know whether you can teach and my staff gave me a really hard time about it and i said i'm going to teach yeah i mean there's no question in my mind you know but um and then his first lady i knew it was going to be more challenging i didn't know how challenging it was going to be but it was joe's staff that said you can't continue teaching and i said also had never been done no never i was i'm the first first first lady to have

done that. And they said, you can't, you know, you have to, why don't you volunteer, you know. And I thought, what does that say to teachers? Like, they can just do this job for free. Like, it's like worth nothing. And I had always made my own money. And I said, look, I am going to teach, so you better figure it out. And I wasn't threatening or anything. But I was just saying, this is my life. This is what gives me joy and that I love to do. And it was, it's one of the best parts of my life. And, and so I kept my job and I get my paycheck. Yeah.

I mean, I think so many people found that to be so inspiring. I mean, did it ever feel like something that was such a no-brainer or such a guy? Yeah, to me it did. Yeah, but it had such a, it had cultural impact in a way that, I guess anything does when you're in the White House. Yeah, yeah. But it did. It had a cultural impact. and so many people

were so moved by that. And then I feel like the White House sort of pivoted and was like, proud of it. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly what happened. Like, oh, look at her. She's teaching it.

Making her own money and really a reflection of American women, most of whom were. Isn't that interesting how that happened? Yeah, yeah. I know, well, politics, there you go. Yeah.

Yeah, I found that just sort of walking us through that negotiation was very interesting to me. I also would never want to be the person to tell anyone to back away from their passions. I know. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Dr. Biden tells me more about what it's like to have her as your teacher. Let's just say if Chat GPT writes your essay, she will find out. and the book she can't stop thinking about.

Okay, be right back. You know those nights when you suddenly realize it's 7.30, you're hungry, and you have absolutely nothing in the fridge that resembles a real dinner. And somehow you're standing there thinking, okay, what am I going to make? That's why I love keeping my freezer stocked with Omaha steaks. They have tender steaks, flavorful burgers, seafood, chicken, gourmet franks, and even sides and desserts. So it's basically like having a trusted butcher and, gourmet food shop right in your freezer. I also love that everything comes individually packaged

so I can pull out exactly what I need. Omaha Steaks has been doing this for more than 100 years, and their meticulous aging process, and vacuum-sealed packaging means that, yes, frozen delivery really can be this good. And if you want an easy way to try them, the burger perfection flight is a great place to start. You get 20 premium steak burgers made from five different cuts, Flea Mignon, New York Strip, Ribby, Brisket, and Sirloin for just $799. So whether you need an easy weeknight dinner or you're getting ready for a Saturday cookout, Omaha Steaks makes it really easy to have something delicious on hand. Try the burger perfection flight at Omaha Steaks.com today.

That's 20 premium steak burgers for just $799, plus get $35 off with the promo code Jesse. Terms apply, C-Sight for details. That's Omaha Steaks.com promo code Jesse for $35 off at checkout. Terms apply. C-Sight for details. And we're back with more dinners on me. No, I've noticed from fans of modern family, you know, there'll be that a few moments, maybe 10, 15 minutes,

where they don't know how to act around me. And I mean, I don't know if everyone's wired this way. I feel like we're wired the same way, but you immediately want to put people at ease. Yes. And so, you know, once that clicks in, it is like this new thing. Like, oh, I can just be real with you and you're just another person. And that's who they were.

I mean, that's one of the greatest gifts they gave to me was that, you know, they just treated me like their English teacher. And then that's how the semester went on. And would they debate with you? No, no. I had a rule. No politics in the class. No, no, not about politics. It's just about like, you know, like, would they ever, like, try and challenge a grade or something?

Oh, yeah, sure. Oh, good. Yeah, so you know what they felt like. Did they know if they were going to lose? Well, the funny thing is, you know, when AI came in and you can put an essay, well, this is a couple years ago, put your essay through this, and through the computer, they tell you, like, how, what percentage is written. by AI. Oh. And then, oh, yeah.

And then, so I'd pull out the essay and I'd say to the kid, well, they were adults. And I said, this is 73% AI produced. Dr. B, no, no, I promise you, I wrote it, I wrote it. I said, really? Then tell me, what does the word aesthetic mean? Well, I don't know what that means. I said, exactly. You used to it.

You didn't write this paper. And sometimes they say, oh, Dr. B, you know, I'm sorry. My kids were, whatever. And depending on whether I believe them or not, I would give them a chance or I wouldn't. And sometimes kids, I mean, they would fight tooth and nail. I mean, I remember one student, I know for sure, did not write that paper. And he swore, I mean, he wouldn't back down. But so I said, okay, the final test is come into the computer lab.

I taught in a computer lab. And here's your topic. And you sit down and you write an essay. And I could prove that he couldn't write a good sentence, a good, develop a paragraph, develop an argument, whatever. I mean, it was so obvious. Because the onus is on the professor to prove it. So I had the proof right there.

And the kid failed. Right. And so I'm sure on rape my professor, I'm sure, you know, that that student has written something like, do not take her class. But anyway. That's so good. That's really funny. Can I ask you, because I love great literature, as an English teacher, what are some of your favorite classics? Mostly American authors.

I taught 10th grade English for ever. until I got to the community college and I taught writing. But, you know, all the classics that you think of, grapes of wrath. To kill a mockingbird. To kill a mocking bird. You know, our dogs, now we have scout and boo. Are those your dog names? Oh, that's right.

Yeah. And can I ask you who your favorite authors are now? Oh, my gosh. Well, I love Ann Patchett. Like, who doesn't love her? Barbara King, Solver. Um, have you read the correspondent? No.

Oh my God, you're going to love that. Okay. Love it. Um, that came out recently. Um, educated by Tara Westover. I loved her writing. Um, gosh, I read everybody. Yeah.

What are you reading? I'm rereading in cold blood. Yeah. Jimmy Capote. Um. Oh, I just read, uh, The Stranger by Bell Burden. Did you read her? I'm reading that as well.

There you go. I know people that always has like a few books going at the same time. But yes, that's a very, very interesting book. It's a page turner. I know. She just came to my, she's a great writer. She just came to my book talk. Oh, how great.

In Martha's Vineyard. And I found out about it afterwards. I said to my friend who knows her, why didn't she come say hello for God's sake? But I don't know. She said, well, she's shy and didn't feel comfortable. I thought, what? Are you kidding? Now I was about to meet her.

I mean, her message was so strong, right? Yeah. About women being independent and trusting and not protecting yourself, which I think is what so many women do. Yeah. In that, you know, I just, I don't know. Yeah. I did it myself, so I know what it's like that you, you know, you trust.

And I don't mean Joe. I mean, my first marriage, and trusted somebody completely, and then you get out of the marriage, and you're like, you don't have a cent, because you haven't, because you've trusted so completely. You know, that's why you go into that marriage and, or into a marriage, because you trust the person and you love them and you think it's going to work forever. And then they totally screw you and, you know. When you look back at, like, for example, your first marriage and, you think, you're going to, Does it feel like another lifetime ago?

Totally. Yeah. Mm-hmm. It was. Well, yeah, well, it was a little like. I mean, you were in your early 20s. And we are all completely different people. You know, I'll be 51 this year.

You know, I can't even remember what I was like in my early 20s. Probably amazing. I'm sure you were. But not as amazing as you are now. No, exactly. Well, that's the other thing that I have learned with age is that you should always be so happy with where you are in the moment because when I look back at myself in my mid-20s and I remember being so critical about the way I looked or where I was in my career. Yeah. It was a confidence thing.

Yeah. But I look back on it. I was like, oh, gosh, first of all, I looked great. I see photos to myself. I was like, I look great. And I was, see photos of myself with my friends. I was like, I know I was happy. Like, I know I was living my own life.

I might not have financial security at that point. And I might not have been in the career that I exactly wanted for myself, or that I dreamed for myself, or that I eventually got for myself. But I was happy. So I try to remind myself that whatever moment I'm in is going to be, hopefully, a moment that I look back on and remember fondly. So what's the one thing you think you would tell your younger self now? I think I would tell myself to do just that to enjoy the moment that you're in

and not obsess about the future, not to compare myself to other people who you careers or lives you admire. It's okay to have aspirations but never feel like you are on. the wrong path because you don't have that. That's what I would tell myself. Yeah. What about you? Thank you.

I think probably, I think it would be have confidence in yourself. Yeah. Because I think it takes us a long time to develop that confidence. I see it all the time in my students. And that's the one thing I say about teaching is that my job is not so much like teaching them

how to write a topic sentence or what an adjective is. It's to give them the confidence. Because if you can instill confidence in them, then they feel like they can do anything or meet any challenge. And I think that's what, I don't know, it's hard to develop that.

Well, how about your kids? I mean, what do you do to develop confidence in your children? I mean, for me, I try and reinforce my pride in them. I like to let them know that I'm proud of them. One of the things that I do is sometimes I talk about how proud I am of them, but not to them, to have to someone else. So they overhear it. So it's not like I'm just being telling you.

that they're amazing. Yeah. They actually hear me talking about it to someone else, so it makes them feel, I don't know, maybe they believe it a little bit more. Yeah, that's true. No, that's a good strategy. You know, I mean, I obviously focus on kindness to other people.

That's important. You know, my older son is at a place now where he's entering first grade, and, you know, there are those peer pressures. that are happening where he is, his relationships with certain people are dictated by how his friends feel about those people. And as someone who grew up ruthlessly bullied,

you know, I, I, it's triggering for me to even see glimpses of him making opinions about other people based on what his friends are saying. So it's, you know, and I'm still, I don't have the answers for this, by the way, but I'm still navigating on how to discuss those things with him. But it usually always boils down to kindness and treating people how you want to be treated. Fairly, right? Fairly, yeah. So, yeah, I mean, that's something I'm working on with him, with both of them. That was a little more from my conversation with Dr. Jill Biden.

If you haven't heard our full conversation yet, make sure to check it out on Dinner's on Me. This episode of Dinners On Me was recorded at Cullino Restaurantante at the Four Seasons Hotel in Beverly Hills, California. Next week on Dinner's On Me, he's the Emmy and Tony winning comedian behind Just For Us, and now starring and writing on Peacocks the paper, it's Alex Edelman. We talk about making the jump from stand-up to sitcoms, learning from comedy legends, and finding humor and everything from Broadway to the White House Correspondence Dinner. Dinner's On Me is a production of Sony Music entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions.

It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcalf. Sam Baer engineered this episode. Hans Dale She composed our theme music. Special thanks to Tamika Balance Kalasni and Justin McKita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson.

Join me next week. Two and five Canadians will hear the words, You Have Cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca.ca.