Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - Simon Helberg – on leaving ‘Big Bang’, Anxiety, & His New Dark Comedy ‘The Audacity’

Episode Date: June 9, 2026

'The Big Bang Theory’ and ‘The Audacity’ star Simon Helberg joins the show. Over enchiladas and guacamole, Simon reflects on ending ‘The Big Bang Theory’ after 12 years and starring alongside my dear friend Lucy Punch as a tech bro billionaire Martin Phister in the AMC series ‘The Audacity.’ We also talk about his early life: how formative his experience at Crossroads School was -- creating lasting friendships -- and how growing up at the Groundlings theatre influenced his love for comedy and performance. This episode was recorded at El Condor in Silver Lake, Los Angeles.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Spring break planning at our house is, it's definitely an adventure. Our kids have very strong opinions, and they're always on different sides of the spectrum. Beckett has very strong opinions about the ocean. It has to be a certain temperature, and the wind has to be blowing a certain way if he's going to get anywhere near it. He doesn't want sand on his feet. Sully, on the other hand, he will roll around in the sand and doesn't care about the water temperature, and he could be just sitting amongst seagulls and he's happy. Justin and I, we just want air conditioning and Wi-Fi, honestly.

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And I'm Angela Kinsey. And together we have the podcast Office Ladies. Just because we finished rewatching the Office does not mean we're going anywhere. Every Wednesday we'll be sharing even more exclusive stories from the Office and our friendship with brand new guests. Plus, you can revisit all the Office Ladies rewatch episodes every Monday with new bonus tidbits before every episode. So follow and listen to Office Ladies on the free Odyssey app and wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Jesse. Today on the show, you know him from The Big Bang Theory.

He's on a new show on AMC called The Audacity. It's Simon Helberg. By the end, I felt like it was just experimenting. I was like, what happens if I hum a pixie song in my head while I'm doing this scene? Uh-huh. Turns out, not that much. This is Dinner's On Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. So today I'm in my old neighborhood of Silver Lake in Los Angeles at El Condor.

This is one of my favorite restaurants in all. all of Los Angeles. My friend Dustin Lancaster is the restaurateur here. I've been coming here for years, and I am so happy to finally feature it on dinners on me. It's a bit bittersweet, though, because Alcondor is closing its doors at the end of August, and I am just so excited that I get to finally make my way here

with my podcast and bring my friend Simon Helberg here. He used to be an East Sider as well, and I thought, what better place? All right, he should be good. getting here soon, so let's get to the conversation. Well, first of all, I, um, I thought you still lived here in this neighborhood. That's very rude to not know my whereabouts, but that's fun. I try and keep up with you.

No, no, it's fine. But I love that we've returned to our, um, our old stopping grounds. Old haunts, yeah. Um, remember when I wandered out of my house and you were just standing out on the street in front of my house? That sounds very creepy. It does have to be some context. Do you remember the context?

Funoculars Pantsless What was the context for that? Your kids were Swim to Bill Swim to Bill at the house across the street from me I can dance

Yes And you didn't know that I lived across the street And you were just like hanging out like Just stopping wet with a little kids Speedo I think your kids were inside You were just like on the phone Like probably killing time

Yeah. And I left, I walked down to the street and you were just like standing outside of my house. I was like, what are you doing here? Like my kids are there are kids swimming. Exactly. I love to watch children swim. One day I'll have kids. Yeah. Hello. Hello. How are you? How are you? Good. How are you? Good. Welcome in today. Awesome. Um, if we are in the mood for drinks today, um, I hear we're maybe doing an N. A really good passion fruits from our burrito. Are you going to have a carot? I don't drink anymore, but what? I'll take a virgin one. I might have a real, have a margarita. An A margarita. I'll try something. You'll start drinking again? Yeah, I'll try it.

I'll do the N.A. The Virgin Marg. If you can make a fun for one. One fun Virgin Marg. Let's see if you have me curly straws. Oh, thank you. And curly straw would be great. You used to be so much more fun.

I know, I know. Everything's changed. I'm happy that you've, uh, I would like to just The pandemic really did put it to the test though It did No we worked here all the time So they had a whole setup on the outside

And then they You could take home Margaritas It was like living in Texas Where you just like drive up and get bottles Of like premixed cocktails That is my first That was like the end of days

Like where every restaurant started Sort of just I loved it I mean it was good end of days But it was sort of like You chose to go down Were you living in this area At that time?

I was living yeah I was living I haven't moved yet. Most feel it is not. I had not moved. So, yeah, so then you, and then after that, you moved, you moved. I moved to Encino, yeah, and you went the other way to. I went the other way.

But were you had, were your kids born during the pandemic? No, well, we had our first in July of 2020. So, like, we were expecting when everything went down and we shut down. So that's why, that's why, like, this place is so special to me, because in the final months before, like, having a kid, like, we wanted to, like, live, but there was nowhere to live. Yeah. So we were like,

let's go to, you know, El Condor and, like, have margaritas on the sidewalk and, like, enjoy our last few days of being childless.

Oh, my God. So you were expecting, and then the hospital must have been all crazy, too. It was. It was wild. I mean, like, there was definitely, like,

it sort of opened up a little bit because at that point, we also, our kids were born in Vegas, and they were like, and that was like the wild, wow, last there.

They're like, what are you talking about? The kissing now. Yeah, yeah, exactly. They're smiling, okay? We're fine here with our songs. Like, nothing ever goes on. Right, exactly.

So it was sort of had loosened up a bit there. And all, but they were also very confused by two men there waiting for a baby. And, you know, wanted, they kept asking how the mother was. And we kept saying the surrogate is doing great. Right. We are the intended parents, like, we're using all this, like, language that, you You know, the surrogate agency was using, and I was like, it feels very strange. Yeah.

It's like intended parents. That is. Right. Wow. Okay, I haven't heard. It was very wild. That is. That must have been like an education.

A lot of forms with like father, mother, like, you know, language. Who are you saying that to, though? In the hospital. The nurses. Like they were. Because I, now I'm only picturing you in the Belagio. Yeah. I'm only picture.

Like that's just the people at the craps table. That's a hard sell. Yeah. I mean, it was. It's so funny because when we were expecting before COVID happened, Justin was like, oh, we'll make like a weekend out of it. And like, we'll go to Vegas early and like, we'll go see Britney Spears. You know, we'll probably still be in residency.

Yeah, yeah. You know, the hard rock hotel and like, we'll make a weekend out of it. And then we'll, you know, wait it out there. And, you know, because we were going to have to like be close in case, you know, things happened. And then it turned into this thing where it was like, you know, we were in a. casino way off the strip, obviously. Oh my God. It was wild.

That is. In the heat of summer, but also still eating outside because that's where it was safe. And it was July in the desert. Wow. Wow. It was wild. Thank you. I love, thank you, sir.

That is fun. Just to like really draw home the point that this is a virgin. Yeah. Dainty. Yes. Thank you. Um, hmm. So you, um, wow.

Okay. And then you were in Vegas through... So you guys came back here or you went to New York after that? Then we came here. You came back here. And that's when you... That was... You were having margaritas here before.

Before. I mean, and then we sort of had margaritas here a little bit after, too. I mean, you know... It helps. Yeah. The mother-in-law would come and stay for a little while and we'd still have some margaritas and bring them home. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, but I mean, we just spent the whole first few months of being fathers in lockdown, which was wild. That's very intense. You had just finished Big Bay. Yeah, well, I finished in 2019. Okay, yeah. And then I went and I did a movie in Brussels that ended up... So right before the real shutdown, I was like traveling to all the sort of European countries.

Yeah. So like in December, I was reading about it on Twitter, like I had just gotten home from all this traveling. and I was like, oh shit, you know, is my, like I got sick, we all got sick, and it was sort of just starting to happen. And then the shutdown came right after that. And then the movie I did got into Cannes, and then they canceled Cannes. And I was like, I had this. This is a movie called Annette. Anyway, again, super champagne problems.

But like, finished Big Bang, like, went to do this French art movie. It felt like, wow, my whole life is kind of different in a beautiful way and very strange. and then the movie got into Cannes and then the world stopped and it was like, and then TV died also, which is the other thing that happened. That's right. That's right. Even had we been. We're still recovering from it, I think.

Yeah. Do you think, because I know I've talked about all of with Jim Parsons about this, and I'm sure you've had conversations with him about it, I mean, 12 years, do you think you really would have wanted to continue more? Are you happy that it? No. I felt very, very content ending at that point. And it was sort of a, it was a natural ending, too.

sense that we weren't renewed. Like, we weren't picked up, and it was kind of, it was only as the season ended that they started even talking about more. Right. But they had never talked to us, so it was a little bit funny in that sense. Right. Sometimes I think back, and I'm like, oh, like, should we have just done more or something? Because at time is such a weird, ephemeral thing, and I'm like, it doesn't, you know,

As you get older, you're like, Jesus Christ, it's already been, like, our show, our show aired 20 years ago. Big Bang aired almost 20 years ago. Started 20 years while I know this because. Of the class. When I first met you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so, I mean, I met you through Jason Ritter and you were also working next door on Studio 60, which was the stage right next to where I was shooting in the class.

And I remember you popping over. And Jason was like, this is my buddy Simon who I went to, like, high school with. Yeah, high school and college. Yeah. And I enjoyed you so much. And you would, like, hang out with us sometimes. the smoke house after. Yeah, yeah.

I think you probably came to some of our tapings. For sure. I definitely did. Everybody would just kind of chill in the like alley there and hang out. We were literally right next door to. Yeah, right next story. And then I remember when I got Big Bang, I went over to say hi to Jim Burroughs. Like, because I knew he had seen my tape, but I'd never met him.

And I was like very nervous about it. And I kind of went up to him and said like, hey, Jim, I'm Simon. And I think you just hired me for the Big Bang pilot. And he just looked at me and he was like, oh, hang on to your hat. I work fast. Yeah. Walked away. I think that was the most I've ever said to him, which, you know, we didn't end up doing.

He did the pilot. He did the pilot, but he didn't end up doing anymore. No. Because they reshot the pilot, right? Well, they reshot the pilot. So the pilot I was in was the reshot one. So they shot a very, like, strange, macabreesome of it. where Jim was like sort of like a womanized, like, very strange.

Yes, he told me it was drinking beer and like kind of like the Neil Patrick Harris character, I think. Right. Like very different. And the penny character was someone. Dark hair and gothny and gothy and sort of, again, everything had, the walls were drab. But Johnny Glecki was still in it? Johnny was in it. So it was Johnny and Jim.

Johnny and Jim and that was it from the, what became the show. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, we get into why growing up in Los Angeles feels more like a working town than a movie star fantasy and how his friendship with our mutual friend Jason Ritter shaped his journey into acting. Okay, be right back. Fabio Semin Tilly.

Big hearts, big voice, big laugh. A rock star hairstylist who drove a Porsche. He was like a wizard behind the chair. The killers came for Fabio in his own backyard. You can't rationalize it. You can't figure it out. There was rampant speculation about everything. But every wild theory was wrong because the truth was even more unbelievable.

Well, is anyone hearing what I'm hearing? And even more heartbreaking. The uncertainty of not knowing is a form of agony. From Sony Music Entertainment and Novel, this is Cut Color Kill. I'm Jonathan Hirsch. Cut Color Kill is available now on The Binge. Search for it wherever you get your podcast to start listening today. Subscribers to The Binge can listen to you.

to all episodes all at once ad-free. And we're back with more dinners on me. Hello. Hello. Hello. Okay. I think I'm going to do the enchiladas. Yes. I'll do the combo platter.

So with the taco. I'm hungry. Papa hasn't eaten today. Yeah. Fried fish is probably my favorites. Arnitas is also really good. I'm going to do the carnitas.

Yeah. I am going to do. just the chicken enchiladas with red red sats thank you yeah

yeah so anyway but then yes where were we and then it happened and then 12 years later it didn't happen

yeah and then you guys were on for what 10 years 11 11 yeah isn't that crazy isn't it crazy that's already

happened yes because like when you think of people, like Jason Ritter, one of my best friends. His dad, who everyone knew from TV, was on that show for like, I think like seven years?

Yeah. Isn't it weird that our shows were on longer? Because that show defines, it's like in the fabric of our culture. I know. And I know that our shows are as well, but it's very confusing when you're inside of one of them

to really feel what that is. It would be weird for you. And I talk about this a lot with Jason when I got to know him and we're working together. Like coming from, first of all, growing up in this city, which I just can't fathom. I grew up in Albuquerque, New Mexico. I was so far removed from this. But like to grow up with parents who are in the business. I know you had parents in the business as well.

Your dad was an actor. Your mom was a casting director. Is that right? That's also got to be crazy because there's so much inside information about just like the ins and outs of the business that she must have had. that she was like talking about at the dinner table. Or maybe she wasn't. But like... Yeah.

Yeah. I feel like it was a kind of a more brutal perspective of... I imagine. It was not glamorous. And I think probably, I mean, you'd have to ask Jason, but I think even people whose parents were incredibly successful, too, it's a mixed bag. I mean, then you've got that...

All the baggage that comes along with that is... But it certainly, L.A. is filled with a lot of... I don't know, it was more than there's... less working class now, but LA was, you know, is this industry town in not the most glamorous way, in actually kind of, which is what I would say is

pretty incredible about Los Angeles. It's not, it doesn't feel like a movie star town when you're around these parts of it and you're going out with your friends, or you're going to restaurants, you're going to see music, or it feels like, well, there's a lot of industry people meaning like grips and writers,

and it's not all the fancy. It's not all so fancy. But when you were at crossroads, I mean, that, I mean... A lot of fancy people. Yeah, I was going to say, because that school is sort of like, famed for being.

Yeah. So that, like, that was a private school that had an incredibly, like, a high caliber of celebrity kids. Because that's just what private schools kind of do. But I have to say, like, my best friends in the world, world are mostly from

crossroads. And some of them had very fancy parents. Some had writers who used to work regularly. Yeah. And had made a living. And so they could send their kids to private school. But all the kids were mostly were pretty

wonderful. I mean, I don't know. I'm a fan of L.A. Did you meet Jason freshman year? Yeah. I met him. well, let's see, he went to crossroads from, I think, from kindergarten. I met him. I started in seventh grade and I really became friends with him in eighth grade.

That's so fucking cute. The idea of you, too, is just like eighth graders is really adorable. He, yeah, I mean, he was like, he was always insanely funny, insanely nice, like, kind of the same. Like, exceptionally those things. Like, I know it's kind of, you know, cliche to say nice and funny. but like, you know him. It's pretty outstanding. But, yeah, we, like, we became friends.

I'm trying to think of, it was, there were a couple of girls that we really liked, that we both, they were both friends, and we liked them, and we sort of ended up, like, going and watching a movie at their house. And there started what became the pattern of our relationship for ever, which was the girl that he liked was, like, all over him, and the girl that I liked was squishing my arm against, the chair while I was trying to put it just like on her shoulder

but it was suspended in there but also we were watching Sliver which was the Billy Baldwin movie and there began again another thing that was very formative which was she had said the girl that I liked was like you sort of looked like Billy Baldwin

and so I did this Billy Baldwin impression and she laughed and then I was like okay I've got a this is my inn still nothing ever happened with this girl but my arm at least got to wake up and and so Jason and I became, we became partners in,

well, in him getting girls and me, you know, doing impressions. So funny. But no, we were friends, like best friends, really, from then on, and then roommates in college. Were your roommates? I didn't know that. At NYU. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. We kind of, like, definitely are very... Did you guys decide to go to NYU together? Was that, like, a battle you guys made? Yeah. We both, he, you know, he was always like kind of into acting, and he also was just always incredibly outspoken and funny and, you know, had no issue. Like, I was sort of shy, but I could be funny, but I was very, he had no problem, like, in the middle of an assembly breakdancing in front of everybody. And everyone would be like, oh, it's just beautiful.

And so he, I was playing music in the jazz band, and he then, he had already been in plays, and he auditioned for a place. Like, I'm going to start doing theater again, like in 10th grade or whatever. And I was like, oh, maybe I should try. And then we got into a play together, and then we kind of both went into the theater department together,

like around 11th grade and a bunch of my friends. Zoe DeChernell was in that class. and a lot of great people, great friends who all did the theater, went into theater and kind of went out, you know, hungry to keep doing. Is that how you first started acting? I mean, was it at that point? Yeah, 11th grade. And so even though your dad was, I know he did a lot of improv, right?

Yeah, yeah, I never, I would go to the groundlings because he was in the groundlings as like one of the, like in the 70s, like in the original startup of the ground. So I used to go all the time. Did he do it with anyone that went on to become? Yeah, I mean, Paul Rubens and Lorraine Newman and Phil Hartman and all those people kind of came through. And so I'd go a lot as a kid.

And I think it definitely profoundly affected me. Like up from a baby, like they'd pull me up on stage as a baby through like four, five, six. And then I went. So I think that was when he stopped probably, when I was maybe five or six. And then I started going in high school when taking classes of the groundlings and was just obsessed with the groundlings and was like, oh, this is what I'm going to do. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we returned, Simon tells me what it was like portraying a version of his real-life relationship

in a film directed with his wife. And we get into his AMC series, The Audacity, where he plays a tech titan. Okay, be right back. And we're back with more dinners on me. That was my play. What did your parents think about you doing that and pursuing that? I mean, I think they were worried for the, you know, just in terms of the challenge of all of it. Again, like having the kind of realistic perspective of these things.

But they were encouraging. I think once they saw me do some stuff. Yeah. Yeah. But it was strange. Like, you know, I was doing, it's like I did some plays in NYU. and I really learned a lot at NYU, you know, and I really, like, had it, that was where, I mean, I knew I wanted to,

I really wanted to just do theater at that point. That was, I was like, I'll do SNL, but I want to stay in New York, I was going to ask, like, did it seem like maybe that was going to be your path instead of TV? And I have, like, a great amount of regret, which is, do you? I really do, yeah. Not, not, not like a simple, not like I wish that I had done, had this path, because I'm very happy with the path I'm on, but I do have that sort of sliding doors version of,

what if I stayed in New York and what if I started doing theater? Right, right. Or what if I, like, went to the public and was like, this is what I want to do, because that's really what I thought I was going to do. And then I didn't do it, and then I became a TV guy, and now I want to go do theater, but I'm also like, there's this sort of,

the lanes of, and you've, you've, you've written it all. So it's like, I think it's because I started there and then I came here. And like, but truly, I mean, now I'm kind of having to work backwards and remind people that that's where I did start because having done now something for 11 years. Right. And I go back and, like, oh, God, Hollywood. This guy from Hollywood's coming in. I was like, I like went into debt doing theater when I was, you know, in my early 20s.

Like, yeah, this is where I cut my teeth. So, but yeah, it's, it's been something. I've been able to weigh, you know, both sides of. But, like, I think that now it's that there's more fluidity between, you know, people being able to do Hollywood and things in New York. I mean, yeah. Everyone's got these sort of, like, very tightly formed lanes from people. I feel like, even when I've gone and done a movie, you know,

the only people that don't seem to care at all are, like, European art house people. I think because they literally don't. don't watch TV. And when they do, they just, they think of it all as, it's all one thing. Like, we're all just doing. So, like, I feel like I've had a lot of traction, like the movie that I did that went to Canada, I've had traction with people who don't know Big Bang. Because they don't come at me with, like, a fucking guy from the show that I don't like,

but I've never seen or whatever. Like, you know, or it's on in the airplane. And I have so many opinions. And I do the same kind of thing. Because it's just, you just do that sometimes. And then it's like, but you meet other people. And the directors that have hired me where I'm like, holy shit, they just, they didn't care. And it's like, no, they just didn't know the show.

Oh, interesting. I've had that happen a few times. And that's, that is actually my favorite stuff in the world. Right. And it kind of shows me, it reminds me that this is like, you know, like I, just like you, I'm an actor who walked into a room and read. Right. a role 12 or whatever 20 years ago?

I mean, it's hard. Like, I certainly work over time to undo people's perceptions of, like, what I can do. Like, I have to, I have to really, you know, it seems a little harder for me to convince people that I can do something more than what they've seen. Yeah. But in a role like Howard, I mean, you had this certain haircut and you were, like, you were, you know, it was a very specific. type of person. You were really, I mean, I mean, I was sort of playing a version of myself. You were

very different from the guy I know. Yeah. Which is, you know, I'm made some ways helpful in some ways maybe not. I don't know. It's, you know, like, it's just time to. And it's like, I wouldn't trade any of it because, again, it's the opportunity and what it's allowed. And just like the sheer amount of work that it was was great. Right. Like we got to work consecutively for, I mean, isn't that kind of amazing that you got to act for 11 years straight? I know, it's like to have a full-time job as an actor.

Yeah. And just to have that like muscle training too of just like learning how to being like, I know how to do this. I've changed as a person. Yeah. I'm sick. I just had a baby. I'm having a tragedy.

I'm having, I don't care, I don't know my lines, I care too much. Like every, you get to try it all. You get to have like your 10,000 hours of like, by the end I felt like it was just experimenting. I was like, I'm going to try like, I'm just so, like, dorked out about acting that I'm like, oh, this will be fun to come in and like have a job where I feel like there are no stakes because I've been doing it for so long. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That I've finally gotten over, like, my crippling anxiety, and I can just be like, what happens if I hum a pixie song in my head

while I'm doing this scene? Uh-huh. Turns out not that much. Depends on what song. Yeah, I had, I was pretty, I would say pretty paralyzed with fear and anxiety for, like, the first eight or nine years. Was it a combination of just obviously the weight of the job, but also just, I mean, losing anonymity as, you know.

Yeah, I think that was, I think everything was contributing to it. But I just, I ran very, like, hot, just very nervous, very, very anxiety-ridden. And with, I think, the success came the, just the pressure and came also then the expectation that it would be just sort of like a walk in the park. Like, all my dreams should be coming true. And it just felt so scary to me all the time. I just felt so scared. I just always felt like I was going to kind of fall apart.

So it took a... During that time, because I know you and Jocelyn, like, got married right when Big Bang started. Yeah, it's a lot of things that happened. I mean, that is a lot of big life changes. Yeah, exactly. But who was sort of holding you accountable during that time? Did you have a good therapist? Were you figuring out medication to help you?

Was Jocelyn helpful? Yeah, all of that. I mean, I had a couple of, like, there was like a certainly like a low point of just, just kind of seizing up. And I had, I had a couple therapists and I was trying medication and it was not, it was not great. Like, it just doesn't a good experience. And it just, the side effects were really rough. I mean, I've, I've been on medication for anxiety. I was having pretty significant panic attacks near the end of modern family.

and then after that time, one of the, I remember being in New York for gay pride. We weren't there for gay pride, but gay pride was happening that Sunday. And so I guess, you know, I was being proud near the gay pride events. Of course, in proximity. Pride proximity.

Yeah, but the street, the point is the streets were very full of people from the gay community. And I, as you know, am a gay icon. And it was, Oh, perfect. Right a gay icon. Right a gay icon.

So let people sit on that and illuminate over that for a moment. It's a cliffhanger. Yeah, right? Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. But I basically had a panic attack, like in the streets of New York.

Were people coming up to you? Was it? No, not really. I was at a restaurant. It sort of came on. I was trying to look for a place to be quiet, private, but there was like literally the streets were teeming with people. I remember just fly.

flashes of this moment. But I remember, like, being in a vestibule of, like, a building trying to just, like, catch my breath and, like, hyperventilating. And someone coming up to me asking me if they needed to call an ambulance. And I was, like, freaked out to, like, turn around. Justin was with me, but I was kind of running away because he was also, like, dealing with, like, he was trying to settle the bill. And I was, like, trying to get out of there.

And, like, I ended up running, and he couldn't find me. It was a whole thing. Oh, okay. And, again, it was like, I'm just, like, I'm just like, imagining, like, leading the parade. Yeah, no, he was the Grand Marshal. Yeah, no, yeah, so he was very busy. Yeah. No, but he, yeah, he did find me and he was like helping me. But I, but in that moment, I was kind of by myself and this person was asking if they could climb an ambulance. I was afraid to turn around because I thought they were going to recognize me. I was like, I was like,

I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. I just, again, I just remember flashes of this day. I ended up getting back to my apartment and like, it was very scary. Yeah. And after that moment, I got onto some anti-anxiety medication and I've since been able to like really figure out what I need to like not have that happen again yeah but one of the things that I was so worried about was you know the way that some of these things just like dull your senses and you know even that the highs are not as high and the lows are not as low but like as an actor sometimes you need that you need access to those things and like it was something that really scared me yeah what is that sounds like feist is she vice is just out there busking

Ice? It was like an ice cream truck with Fice music. I know. Very Silver Lake. When I first moved to L.A., I was living in this neighborhood just up the street in Silver Lake,

and I was borrowing a car from my friend Andy, who was in rent on Broadway, and he wasn't using his car. He had a little mini-coop here. And there was a Fice CD that was jammed into the CD player that I couldn't remove.

So he had to. I wanted to listen to anything, it had to be the Fice City, and I had never heard of her before. And I became obsessed. I was like, well, I love this. There's a sign. It was great. Yeah. But that's the Little Manny Coup is what I drove every day to the class and stuff.

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. And I was always, like, fice as I drove onto the law. Oh, my God. Yeah. So when I ever hear anything even sounds like Ficeyce? Yeah, it feels very. You know what else?

It happened. Yeah, exactly. Lucy Punch and I, who's on the Audacity. I love Lucy's so great. I love that you guys are working to you by the way. I love her so much. Because it feels very full circle. Yeah, yeah.

But Lucy Punch, who is from England, and, you know, she was also sort of like a fish out of water here. I came from New York. She came from the UK. And so we were both, like, transplants here. Yeah. And she was like, I'm going to help you decorate your apartment. I had no money. Lucy and I wandered into a furniture store here.

I spent the most money I've ever spent on anything in my life, a really nice chair that she helped me re-upholster. Like, she picked out the fabric with me. and then we wandered around this neighborhood and found Cafe Stella which we stumbled into and had a glass of wine at and I met actually this is a little bit of a full circle moment for this restaurant Dustin Lancaster who is the

restaurateur of this place but we became friendly and he and I have been friends ever since that like 20 years ago on the day I bought my first chair and now we're eating at his restaurant there you go and when you buy a chair like that

too. That's like, that's a commitment. Yeah, I still have that chair. I've re-apulstered it two other times. Yeah. But I still have that chair, yeah. Yeah, Lucy is, uh, this is so fantastic. Do you, are you in touch with her? Yes, I just saw her a few months ago. I just saw her a few nights ago, actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She's so great on the audacity. Um, it is, uh, it's a great show. I'm, I, uh, I mean, as I was watching, I started watching him because I knew that you and Lucy were on it. And it, like, really struck me that. I was like, well, this is interesting that time is doing the show, because it's, it's sort of like an alternate universe from Big Bang Theory. It is. It's like a dark kind of

underbelly. Exactly. And like, it's, you know, with Howard, it was, there's a lot of charm and like, you know, you're, I would describe as like, quirky and charming and, like, neurotic. Yeah. And like very relatable. And I feel like all those neuroses, like, even like a lot of things we were just talking about with like, you know, personal health, like you see in that character, but in a very kind of digestible, fun way.

And then with the audacity, it's like, it's like the dark underbelly. It's about ego. It's about loneliness. It's about wealth and like, really the loneliness that that brings, like that super intelligent mind sometimes requires in order to work. Yeah. It's obviously a very different type of role. I mean, he's sort of like this like sexy, I mean, at least I think, I think, you know, I think,

I think you're very handsome on the show. But, you know, also kind of this idiot savant in a way that like has shades of Howard but is so wildly different. Yeah, yeah, it's, it is. There is an odd parallel in just the kind of, also just in where we, it's like the time the Big Bang was on and the show Silicon Valley was on. There was a bit of like a kind of. hopefulness or almost a it was kind of like a nod and a wink to this

subculture that these brilliant guys who are going to inherit the earth and it's sort of charming and now it's just haunting you know so we're just in a different time too I think but yeah it's

you know it's also like it's so it's such a it's such a departure really from anything I've done just because it's that the writing, the universe, like, it has such a, Jonathan Glasser, who writes it, you know, wrote for succession. Yeah. Yeah.

It's just like an incredible voice, you know, it's such a singular, fully realized comment and satire of where we are. And you get to, I love being in somebody's, like, painting. You know, I love when someone's like, I'm like, you have a story that I'm part of it. Like, I love. Yeah. I love that. I mean, that's, I guess, what you always want to do.

But sometimes you can feel it more, you know, sometimes you can feel less of the machine and more of the person. Right. And this is like a, and the cast is unreal. And it's just, and it's a lot of funny people doing sort of deeper stuff. You know, Zach Alfanakis and people like Lucy, really funny actors being, like, grounded. Yes. And it creates like a weird darkness, like an unsight. an unsettling kind of.

But, no, I'm really proud of this one. It should be. It's really good. Is Jocelyn still, I mean, I know she acts as well. Yeah. She's writing a lot and she does theater out here. We're part of this company called Antias, which is like a sort of smaller classical theater company.

Oh, nice. It's in Glendale. And she just did a production of Nora, which is a version of Doll's House. Right. Yeah, she's awesome. How did you two meet? I forget. We met, well, so we both went to the same high school, and we met afterwards. I was friends. I did not know her in high school.

She's a different year than I have. She's a little older than I am. And I knew her brother, and I went to NYU with her brother. And so, again, everyone just from Crossroads kind of stayed in touch. And there was, like, a housewarming party that I heard about at my friend's sister's house who I'd heard of, Jocelyn. and I went and we met and danced. I don't even know. It was dark. Yeah, it was just like a random,

but we had fun. We just hung out and I kept seeing her round. I love that you guys directed a film together kind of based on your courtship, right? Yeah, it was, it was, there was a, so we were together for like a few years and then we broke up. And I kind of like,

self-destructed and then tried to put myself back together really quickly and get back together with her and she had flown to Paris and so I wrote a movie about it which was kind of therapeutic and then we made the movie together which was maybe more masochistic

I think and then we got this great cast though like you know Jason's in it Alfred Molina Zach Quinto Melanie Linsky who ended up marrying our friend Jason Yeah so of course she played Jocelyn which meant I had to

like kiss her quite a bit in front of Jason and in front of my wife. So it was really all kinds of fucked up. And I'm healed. I'm healed because of it. How was it directing with her? It was, it's hard to even say because the experience was so

unique and painful because of the subject matter. That it, ultimately, like I love, and I've worked with her a lot, like we've worked together as actors and producers and this was

a particular thing because again I'm playing like the asshole version of myself and she's directing that so she has the power to tell me that I should be more of an asshole because I really was in real life or more neurotic

more awful but also there was we shot a lot of it in New York and in Paris and it was a heat wave and these tiny spaces and so a lot of the time she couldn't be in the room with me so they had they we would just have a camera person and then the actors in the room and then they'd bring in this walkie-talkie and i always just dreaded the moment they would put this walkie-talkie down on a table and they'd like and they would turn it up and she would just like criticize me through this walkie-talkie i was like my way like bringing in

my wife and they'd bring it in oh my god she's like she's like um what hell are you doing What was that? I'm like, ah, I'm, I'm, I'm, turn it off.

Yeah. So, um, that was intense. That's how you still have conversations at home. Yeah. But with baby monitors.

Yeah, well, we get into like a really big fight. Yeah, bring in the walk in the eye. I'm gonna need a, um, but,

but it was, um, but we made a great movie. Like, we made, again, like a great. We'll never have Paris,

right? We'll never have Paris. Right. Right. Yeah. Thanks for doing this. I really appreciate it. Yeah.

You told Josh, I've said hi, it's been a really long time since I've seen her. And yeah, and please tell Justin I say hi. I will. We'll do it again, you know. And we need to do it double date. Double, double time. We're coming to Pasadena.

I love the restaurants over there. It's great. This episode of Dinners on Me was recorded at El Condor in Silver Lake Los Angeles. Next week on Ditters on Me, you know her from her Emmy Award winning performance in The Handmaid's Tale and HBO's The Leftovers. It's Ann Dowd. We get into her new Hulu series, The Teser. where she reprises the role of Aunt Lydia, and will reflect on her decades-long career

as one of Hollywood's most brilliant character actors. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinner's On Me Plus. As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, they'll also be able to listen completely ad-free. Just click try free at the top of the Dinners On Me show page

on Apple Podcast to start your free trial today. Dinner's On Me is a production of Sony music entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcalf. Sam Bear engineered this episode. Hans Dale She composed our theme music.

Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tamika Balance Kalasney and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.