Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - Simu Liu

Episode Date: March 12, 2024

Simu Liu, star of “Barbie” and Marvel’s “Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings,” joins the show. Over soup dumplings and BBQ pork, Simu tells me why he initially kept acting as a secret from his parents , and how “Good Will Hunting” got him his superhero gig. This episode was recorded at The Formosa Cafe in West Hollywood, CA. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.com slash host. Hi, it's Jesse. Today on the show, you know him from Barbie and Shang-Chi and the legend of the 10 rings. It's actor Simu Liu. When my parents found out that I was like really serious about the acting thing,

they took out life insurance policies on themselves. Oh, wow. Because they were like, yeah, we just like really need to make sure our son is okay. This is Dinners on Me and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Okay, I will admit, I'm not a huge Marvel consumer. I just, I feel like it's not my genre.

But here's the thing, every time I give in and I watch a Marvel film, I absolutely love it. And that's what happened when I watched the Marvel movie, Shang-Chi in preparation for today's episode. I knew Simulio from his work in a little film called Barbie. I don't know if you've heard about it. He played one of the Kens. But I didn't know too much more about his life

and work beyond that. It's quite a treat when one of my guests has written an actual memoir, which Simu has done. I read it and I was so taken by his story of going from a Canadian immigrant to a superhero in a huge American franchise. His story of following his passion to become an actor while being raised in a culture

that gave him very little support of encouragement deeply moved me. And I was so excited to take Simu out for a meal and get to know him and also hear about his meteoric rise in Hollywood. Hi, how are you? Good to see you, you stuck up on us. I brought Simu to the Formosa Cafe, a Taiwanese-American restaurant that's been a hot spot since Hollywood's

golden age. Back when Samuel Goldman Studios was across the street, it was the after-work hangout for some of the period's biggest names, from Clark Gable to Humphrey Bogart. It wasn't out of the ordinary to see Frank Sinatra and Ava Gardner snuggling up in a booth together. In the early 90s, the restaurant was on the verge of demolition, but the community rallied around it. Now it's a historic landmark in West Hollywood. I decided to sit in a special part of the Formosa, an original restored red car. You know those trolleys that used to go around LA back in the 1920s?

It's one of the last, if not possibly the last, on public display in Los Angeles. Okay, let's get to the conversation. So, I don't know if you've been here before. I have not. You haven't? No, it's so... Oh, it's like so historical. I feel that, I feel it as I walk through.

No, this place opened in 1939, I think. Oh my gosh. And then it went to like, it was sort of like the where like all the the Hollywood stars would come and like have lunch I just I don't know. I know you're a foodie. So I thought I'd I do I do love food I love food and I love you know, you know the history of Asian food and Specifically Chinese food and the United States is really interesting because it does go so far back and it coincides with you know the first Asian immigrants that and you Asian immigrants from China that came over to work on the railroads and the gold rush and all that.

I like the ownership that we're taking a little bit because I can only imagine when this place first opened, it was one of the first places in LA to serve East Asian food and I imagine they were serving it to, I mean look at the walls, it's like all white people. There's a lot of mean look at the walls It's like all white people so Chinese restaurant So I love that I'm sitting here with you You know you've broken such barriers and like you're the first Asian American superhero and It's just it's a really cool thing. Oh, thank you

Thank you Office records and and now we get to have this lunch together. And wait, am I right in hearing that you have, you're part of a dumpling company? Yes, yes. I'm a part owner of a, of a soup dumpling company called Mila. And you know, I feel like so much of what I've been doing these past few years is like sharing our culture with, you know, America and the world. And food is a, is a big cultural access point for us

as Chinese, Chinese Americans and soup dumplings is so quintessentially Chinese. It was a company you were already a fan of? Yeah, I had tweeted something dumb as I frequently do. I think my kink is introducing people to soup dumplings for the first time. I don't know why I use that verbiage specifically And this company got in touch and was like here. Let let us send you some product. Yeah, and so I Actually wasn't home when the product came my parents were house sitting and then they wound up eating the whole shipment And none was left for me

But of course my parents are you know, they're from the old country, so I was like, if it had their stamp of approval, I was like, I gotta, I gotta get involved. I have, um, I have this habit on, on this podcast of when I bring up people's memoirs, I seem to always get the titles wrong. Okay. I, I just finished your memoir this morning. Oh my goodness. Yeah. And, and it's called.

And it's called, so again, you're gonna test me. It's called, okay. We were dreamers. Nailed it. Nailed it. There's a subtitle. Oh yes, there is a whole subtitle. I mean, we're going for the whole thing. I'm going for the whole thing.

You don't want heart marks. Nope, nope. We were dreamers, a memoir, a story. No, I already fucked it up. You know what? You know what? It's a hard one, Jesse. There's three adjectives.

It's an immigrant. Superhero. Orton story. You got it. Yes. Amazing. I'm so sorry for naming it that. No, it's a tough one. No, no, no, no.

And I wasn't sure if it was, we are dreamers or we were dreamers. It's we were dreamers. We were dreamers. Sounded more, I did get a lot of like publisher questioning about like, well, why aren't we dreamers anymore? Why were we dreamers? Why did we stop? Why did we stop dreaming and I was like well number one we were dreamers sounds infinitely more whimsical than we are dreamers. Yeah, and two

Yeah, I mean if you read the book you'll know like it ends at such like a full circle moment for our whole family that it Was it is like very much looking back from that point and being like this is a whole as a as a saga like it this saga has completed like you know there was a lot of you know internal monologue and also you know externally from outside of the world this energy of like why are you writing a memoir about your life you're so young you know but I'm glad you recognize that because it's's true. It's totally true. But you had a lot to say. I think, you know, for what it's worth, the story is as much about my parents, you know, journey and their upbringing as it is about mine. And so that's about creating space and

telling those stories so that, you know, I think personally, I felt very alone and isolated growing up. There weren't that many kids like me in my class. So hey, how's it going? Hi. Yeah, good. You're good. All right. You guys ready to put in some drinks?

I would like, yeah. I think I'll do the Arnold Palmer. All right, sounds good. Yeah. I'll do a diet cola. And do you guys need a little bit more time to look over the food, or would you like to try some? Do you have soup dumplings?

We do. Should we share? Let's do it. Yeah, absolutely. You want to try some soup dumplings? It's a rainy day. Chicken or pork? You tell me.

Is pork okay? Yeah. I think that's like more traditionally common. Okay. So let's go pork. And can I also do the steak and broccolini? Of course. You're actually right.

Critical question, Jesse. Yes. Do you do family style or do you do every man from the cell? I could do family style. You want to do family style? Yeah, let's do it. Let's do family style. What are you going to add to my contribution?

That's a great question. Now the pressure's on. Now there's a potluck happening. The Chinese barbecue pork, maybe start off with some egg rolls. Yeah, please. They're like sons with pork. Great. Perfect. Yeah, so I think when you grow up

in an intergenerational household, it does feel very isolating. It's like the world that you participate in when you go to school is very different than the world that you come home to. When you come home, it's almost like this weird time capsule because your parents are, they're just like kind of frozen in time from the moment that they immigrate. So it can be very hard for them to like

assimilate into this new place. It's tough for, very, very tough for us. I don't know, you also had a rough start with the fact that you know your parents did something that they needed to do, which is to come to the states or come to Canada. Your dad first went to Phoenix, Arizona. Yes, yeah, yeah. But then went up to Canada and then brought your mom. Yeah. And when you were a little over four,

was it when your dad came back to pick you up? That's right, yeah. You were raised by your grandparents. Yeah, it's a weird feeling meeting your biological father. I remember when he walked through the door, it was like my grandparents had built it up, you know, they were like, your dad's coming and it's gonna be so great.

And I think as a four year old, it's like impossible not to be excited by that idea, whatever that means. But also like, what concept do you have of like, you know, I have a father, he's here to get, you know, but so I remember him walking through the door and just feeling like this man is a total stranger. And he was asking me questions and I was just like kind of shell shocked and kind of like

you're just don't know you. Yeah, stranger danger. Yeah. My son's three and a half, a little over three and a half right now. And I just see how he interacts with, you know, you do learn that thing to be afraid of people who don't recognize. And I can only imagine like I was thinking about him when I was reading that part of your book

and like how bizarre that must have been for you. And it's like almost like a rebirth in a weird way. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. Have you seen Past Lives? Yes, loved. Yeah, it's such an incredible movie. Greta, Greta Lee is also, she was also in Spelling Bee. Oh yeah, and she's, I mean, she's such an incredible movie. Gretta Lee is also, she was also in Spelling Bee. Oh, yeah, and she's, I mean, she's such a badass.

And that movie just did such a good job of, you know, when you open on that character, you see she's like around the same age as I was when I left. And they're in Korea and she's talking about how her parents wanted to move. And then you kind of cut, and it's very jarring because you cut to her you know over ten years later and she's just a fully American woman yeah and she's you know it's like you've uprooted something from its natural habitat and you've just like it's exactly like you say it's like a rebirth and and this new person that sprouts from this new environment is just a totally separate entity than who

they would have been. Right. Had they just stayed in, you know. Right. Yeah, had I just stayed in. Do you imagine what your life would have been if your parents or your grandparents had raised you? I definitely wouldn't be here.

Yeah. Yeah. I think if I had stayed in China, I would look completely different. I would probably, my arms would probably be less you know girthy. I wouldn't work out as much. Not to get no working out. I'd probably be like an engineer like my parents were you know I would have followed in there in their footsteps and I don't know that I would have thought too much about finding the career that I loved

or pursuing my dreams. I don't think I would have had too much of that. I think it's very much a privilege for me to have grown up in an environment that did nurture those conversations. After you moved, well, first of all, after you moved to Canada with your parents, I imagine you were feeling caught between

two identities at some point. Yeah, I would say, I would actually say in the beginning I did a pretty good job of being my parents son. Like, first, you know, few years of elementary school, I was like always the kid that was, I was doing really well in class and I was just kind of breezing through and felt good about it. And then I went through puberty. And I feel like that was the inflection point in which I was like, I'm starting to feel

things. Yeah. First of all, you know, I like girls and I want to talk to girls and I want a girlfriend. And I have absolutely no idea how to do this because my parents, there was just no room for any of that talk. And then it's like, when you go through puberty, you also, I feel like it's the time where in classrooms, the social hierarchy start to form.

Like it's not just like everyone's friends with everyone anymore. Like all of a sudden you have cool kids. Like I knew very quickly, like I was not cool. I had clothes that were picked out by my parents Um, I didn't listen to any music than anybody else listened to I was just like I'm just a weird I'm just a weird kid and um, and I and I didn't want that. I wanted to be the guy that fit in and my parents were like no, none of that matters

study, yeah, you know get straight ace and um And that was when the the schism started to occur. Did you know that early on that the path that your parents were wanting to lay out for you was not necessarily a comfortable path for you? Or did you even have dreams to like be an entertainer at that point of your life? I mean, you're 12, so.

Yeah, I think I remember, because I was an only child too, so much of what I learned about the world around me and the society that I lived in was through movies. So I remember loving movies. And I loved the making of special features, the behind the scenes, the being on set. I just never really thought that there was room for me in that.

Like it just never felt like a world that I could participate in. Did you feel like that was something that your parents were open to letting you explore or? No. I think it's not that, I always want to fight against this, like, notion of a very stereotypical tiger parent. Like, I always want to break down where these behaviors come from. And I think for my parents and for a lot of immigrant parents, it comes from discomfort, you know?

Because to them, you know, you have to understand math and science are universal. Right. And they're not bound by language. Like, one plus one will always be two. And I think insofar as any work that they could help me with, that they had any sort of expertise on, they were like, as long as you're doing something related to math or physics or engineering, like what we do,

we'll always be able to help. But if you're telling me that our son is a writer, that's so far outside of anything that they know. And I think it's just a very uncomfortable place for a parent to be like, I am so not equipped to nurture that in you. And I think that's what I felt. Yeah.

The part of your memoir where you talk about working for Deloitte actually gave me PTSD. Oh yeah. Because I ran stocks between, this was when the World Trade Center was still around, but I ran stocks between two floors, the World Trade Center, pretty high up. Oh my gosh. It's a senseless job that takes no talent at all.

You waited at a desk and they would put stocks in your, or you know, piece of paper, I didn't know what I was delivering. But paper was number, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I would have to run it to another floor. I guess it was kind of before email was like really a big thing, now it's just you need to send it off. But I certainly know what it feels like

to be doing something that is just biding time before the thing you wanna do comes along. What I also find fascinating about this time, and I had the support of my parents, like they sent me to theater camp and came to see my school plays. And I think that they were nervous about me becoming an actor. Like my dad really thought that I was like,

when I said I was gonna go to New York, he's like, oh God, he's gonna be playing the guitar in the subway for money. And that could have been what happened. But you know, I was lucky and I got some breaks, but they were always very supportive. And I can't imagine, it was such a passion for me. I can't imagine keeping that part of my life from them,

but that is kind of what you had to do while you were starting off. Like you had to really sort of keep that a secret. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think I should say a lot of our cultures are just laced with just dishonesty. You know, it's a lot of like lying to each other to protect feelings, but also lying to each other.

I mean, have you seen the farewell? Yes. The Lululemon, you know, my good friend Nora Anafina is brilliant in it. But very much, I mean, that story of, oh, we're collectively like keeping a secret from someone. That happened all the time. Not to excuse what I did, but I, you know, I was let go from that job. Thank God. After about eight months of working there,

and I had a bit of severance money. Wasn't much, it was like $3,000, but it was enough for my first set of headshots and a couple acting classes. The act of being fired, or the feeling of being fired, was actually so freeing. Oh, it's all here. Oh my gosh.

Wow. I'm gonna set some of this stuff all here. Oh my gosh. Wow. Okay. You're not going to be able to hear what I'm saying for the rest of the rest of the time. Thank you so much. Gorgeous. Thank you.

These are beautiful. Wow. Wow. Thanks, guys. Okay, wait. Talk me through how to eat these again. So you got the spoons, you're going to pick the soup dumpling up from the top with the chopsticks.

And that's perfect, a little dunk. And then you just bite a little hole. I want you to see if it's scalding. Bite a little hole and you kind of suck the soup out. Mm. Mm. Okay. Tasty. And if you don't live near Formosa Cafe.

Uh-huh, right, right. You know. What can you do? Well, you can go to eatmeala.com and we'll deliver to any household in the United States. That's perfect. Yeah, when I think about wanting to get into acting, I think I was so used to being invisible my whole life.

When we were in Kingston, people looked at us a certain way because my parents spoke English with an accent. And so I think wanting to be an actor came first and foremost out of this desire, this want to feel seen and noticed. And by the way, I didn't feel seen by my own parents either, right? Because they were trying to really just force me into this very, very, it was pigeonholing me into a very narrow definition of success. But then I took my first acting class

and it was like, I'm not saying that acting class is therapy so don't quote me on that. But it felt therapeutic in a way, yeah. Yeah. I mean you have to allow emotions out, you have to be very truthful with yourself. I mean for me it is very therapeutic. I don't think it's wrong to say that at all.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Now for a quick. I don't think it's wrong to say that at all. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. ["Bee Career"] Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Simu tells me about how his parents were still concerned about a planned bee career even after a lead role on a TV show. Okay, be right back.

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And we're back with more dinners on me. Do you remember the first time you came to LA? Yeah, the first time I came to LA was I booked my first, this was after maybe two and a half years of auditioning. And it's so funny because we say all this, we take these acting classes, we unlock our emotional truths, we figure out, we achieve some deeper consciousness into our inner self. And then, at least for me, of course, it's like,

okay, and then you go audition for Hong Kong cop number one, two lines, and you sit down and you go, excuse me, so then those were my, probably the first five on-screen credits was various Asian accents that I had to do because it was like this cop procedural and so you know it's like the main cast is always what it is and then they inevitably will do one episode set in China or Chinatown and you get to be the guy that's like

you have a call from headquarters but you know and then you do that and with the Chinese affectation or a Japanese you know whatever it didn't matter at that time. You were just, you know, you were just an Asian guy. So I booked my first TV show, it was on a show called Blood and Water where I played a pedophile murderer. And then coming out of that, I was like, you know what, I'm going to start emailing some managers in LA because now it's time. And there was one guy, Chris, that got back to me out of all the cold emails that I sent on this IMDb rabbit hole at 3 a.m.

And he's still my manager. That's amazing. But my first trip to LA was to meet him for the first time. Yeah, I like how you described meeting him. You were a little unsure about him at first. I was not sure, yeah. It was very, you know, because for a guy that had never really been to LA, like, I thought it was like gonna be an entourage episode in a couple of life.

He's gonna roll up in a Rolls Royce and be like, hey kid, I'm gonna make you a star. But he's, yeah, it's, he was in this, you know, Honda Civic coupe from like at least 10 years ago, Flip Flops, and he was just like,, man, cool. So I represent you now. And I really, you know, I didn't have a lot of money back then. So I stayed at the USA Hostels on Hollywood and Schrader, like $40 a night. But I, you know, I loved it. What was, what do you remember about LA that, that first time

you came? I remember. What was, what do you remember about LA that, that first time you came? Um, I remember. Do you remember where you visited or did you? Um, I remember I was taking photos of the Chinese theater and a Spider-Man came up to me and was like, I'll help you. And, and then he took a bunch of photos of me and then he took some selfies of himself.

And then he was like, that'll be $20. Yeah. Yeah. And I was mortifying for me because I didn't have $20 to give them Core memory clearly, right, right, right, but also with to that fact that you um Didn't you also throw a bit of time while you were still in Canada? Which were like a spider-man at kids parties? I will yes. Yes, right. Yeah, so I knew his life right right right right you had empathy for this I don't think for him except I wasn't going to random strangers and asking for money

Yeah, read on rate and I'm random strangers and asking for money. Right, right, yeah. He was like, greed upon rape, and I was being hired. And he should really look into that. Yeah, there was. Yeah, you do what you do. You do what you gotta do. So you're just going back and forth between Canada, Los Angeles. You were still you were by coastal, if we consider the border.

Yeah, in a very, in a very loose and broken, desperate sense of that word. Yeah. So, again, a couple of years broken, desperate sense of that word. Yeah, so again, a couple years after that initial trip, I ended up booking Kim's Convenience, which was a big deal. Not that we knew it at the time, but Netflix ended up picking it up, and so it became more of a global thing. But this was a show that started on the Canadian broadcast channel? The Canadian Broadcast Corporation, I think.

Corporation, okay, yeah. It was us and Schitt's Creek at the same time and we were always head to head. And obviously Schitt's Creek is what it is. It's an incredible show, huge. And we were like, but we were holding our own. It was kind of like a golden age of Canadian, Canadian-er, we like to call it.

But yeah, so I would shoot that in the summertime. And then it was always this knowledge of, this is a great opportunity. But if you stay in Canada, especially as an Asian actor, if I stayed in Canada and the show runs its course, which eventually will, all shows do, what happens to me then? Right. So that was when I was like, OK, well,

I'm going to take the money that I make and I'm just gonna lose like 40% of it in the exchange rate immediately and then come down to the States and just see what happens. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Nice to hear.

We ordered a barbecue pork, like, bow spread. I love the table. It came on this like beautiful cutting board arrangement that, quite honestly, just didn't fit on the table. It came on this like beautiful cutting board arrangement that quite honestly just didn't fit on our table. So Jesse is, he's cutting into it. He's cutting it. There's no rules Jesse.

I think you just cut yourself a piece. It's all gonna be delicious. Oh you're bringing me, oh my God, thank you so much. Here. Oh my goodness. Oh that is such a big piece, thank you. Delicious. Delicious. Very good. We have so much food here. Okay. What were your parents thinking at this time when you were actually starting to succeed in this business that they had no concept of anyone

ever doing for a real job? Totally. Totally. I think they were very cautiously optimistic, not even optimistic, they were supportive, but they were like, you know, it's that kind of when are you gonna get a real job sort of thing. Like as I was on Kim's Convenience, it was this thing of like, this is incredible, it's gonna end, it's gonna end.

And how many Kim's Conveniences could you possibly string back to back? And you know, legitimate question, right? Like what back to back? And, you know, legitimate question, right? Like, what were the chances that after, you know, being on a, like a hit phenomenon show about an Asian Canadian family, are we just gonna, you know, is another one, yeah,

are we just gonna fall into something else? And so that was really feeding into my, like, my anxiety and my need to kind of keep going down to LA. And I think it wasn't until the Marvel stuff happened that they finally were like, okay. I mean, it's interesting because I feel like American film, for so many people around the world is like the eye and it's like what America can be.

And I mean, perceptions of different countries were often made through film. Mm-hmm, through an American lens, yeah. Yeah, and I think about your family, like maybe even when they were still in China, like sort of having that very sort of fragmented lens of America. And, you know, there wasn't a lot of room for you.

I mean, look at the walls that were surrounded by, it's just a whole bunch of white people. Like I can understand like where they would be nervous about that, I have empathy for them, being worried about that for sure. Absolutely. And you know, and you look at the entertainment, the few things that were available for Asians, and a lot of times they were being played by white people.

Yes. And crazy makeup. And that's the worst of it. The first, we call it yellow face, Mickey Rooney breakfast at Tiffany's. But it continued for a long time and then, you know, for a while too. And I wouldn't say this is just as bad, although it's certainly like, you know,

it's Asian characters, but that are not written by people who are sensitive to that culture. So, you know, there was a whole, I feel like, era of procedural television where you had all these Asian characters that would like speak, like, and like just really weird. they would say things like, I need to bring honor to my family, which is a thing that I've said zero times in my entire life.

You know, there's just like, people think that we had this obsession with honor based on, if you watch like NCIS or like see anything, you know, with an Asian character in the last whatever, 20, 25 years, there's always something honor related, you know, with an Asian character in the last whatever 20-25 years, there's always something honor related. But, but thankfully, you know, now it's like when you have films like we talked about the farewell and past lives that are, you know, birthed from an Asian American lens, it's just such a unique lens. You know, I think it lends itself to richer storytelling.

And when you see movies that, you know, films now that come from a kaleidoscope of different perspectives and viewpoints and whether it's culture or otherwise, you know, sexuality, age, you know, just all of it, it's just, it's better. And it is very different than the world that my parents dreamt of, which by the way, and they'll tell you themselves, is what they, you know, for what it's worth, they have made peace with it. They're like, yeah, we signed up for it. We signed up to be the guests in this country, you know?

Of course, the people in my generation are, we grew up differently, you know? We're like, well, this is our home. And it should reflect like, we should feel safe and we should feel represented in this home if it's gonna be, if we're going to call it home. But for that generation, they were like, yeah, people are going to treat us a little weird and people are going to feel like we're encroaching on their space. But that's because we are. We're immigrants, you know? No one asked us to come here.

You know, we wanted to. And so it's something that over the process of interviewing my parents for the book that they, that they said that really caught me, caught me off guard. Yeah. You know. And I didn't mention this when I was first talking about your memoir, but what I'm so taken by, I'm so happy that you have this for yourself, is that account of not only your parents, but your grandparents as well. And that piece of history captured in your writing.

Yeah, I'm really proud of you for doing that. Yeah. It'm really proud of you for doing that. It's really cool. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Simu tells me all about becoming Marvel superhero, Shang-Chi. He tells me about the Good Will Hunting monologue that was his audition for that film,

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So what was your audition process like? Yeah, so it was like untitled, you know, self-tape, like untitled Marvel project. Of course, everyone knew what it was because we'd all read the trades at that point. But I do a self-tape, and the self-tape is two scenes from Good Will Hunting, which already is like...

It's crazy because Good Will Hunting, which already is like, it's crazy because Good Will Hunting is like my probably like one or two, one A or one B favorite movie of all time. Really? And I'm like, okay. First I'm like, does he want me to do the Boston or does he Ricky Bobby, Jerry, you know? Or do I tone down?

So I end up, you know, I do a non-Bostonian version of the, of the, of the, of the, of the, of the, on the self tape. To have no direction, you know, I do a non-Bostonian version of that. Right? This is on the self-tape. On the self-tape. So you have no direction. You're in your apartment by yourself, or at your manager's office, or... Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're just doing these scenes from Goodwill Hunting.

Yeah, doing these scenes from Goodwill Hunting. For this entire old thing. Yeah, yeah. And it made, once I met Destin, which came after, I mean, I sent him this, you know, the tape, heard nothing for a few weeks, heard like, oh, I think they're going younger. And then, and so I kind of like, all right, fine, well that was my shot. Glad I tried. And then like a few days after that was like, actually,

would you mind coming down to LA? And so I came down to LA, I met with Destin. And then all of a sudden, yeah, Destin's the director, and all of a sudden the Goodwill Hunting became very clear to me. That decision making, it was very, very deliberate. It wasn't just, oh, let's give him some scenes from a movie. It was like, no, Goodwill Hunting is about a character, Will, who is an incredible, you know, he has this like incredible other part of him that he just tries so hard to suppress every day in order to just try to survive in his life. But he's so much more than that,

but he doesn't, like he's just, he spends his entire life hiding. And so he really wanted me to tap into that. And I remember going into the process, I was like, I was all sorts of like insecure about, well, you're talking about a superhero to represent, you know, and not that this was it, but inevitably we put that on ourselves, like you're talking about a superhero to represent, and not that this was it, but inevitably we put that on ourselves.

You're talking about a superhero to represent all Asian people. Right. Because that's the first one. Yeah. And so what right did I have to be that person? Was I the tallest? Was I the best looking?

Was I the best martial artist? Like, no, no, no, absolutely not. I wasn't seeing it, you know. And I came in and we were doing these scenes and at one point we were improving and it wasn't until we were actually workshopping that I was like, I think I see it now. Because you're not asking for someone to be the tallest and best-looking and handsomest and most superhero-looking person to represent Asians in America. You're looking at someone who isn't afraid to show their vulnerability and their flaws,

and someone who's ultimately relatable and human. And I came out of that and I was like, I think I got it. And a few weeks later I got the call to do a screen test. So I flew to Brooklyn. It was like a whole thing, like soundstage, mic'd up, wardrobe, everything. It was like going to work. But yeah, I got a call two days after that.

That waiting period between, I don't know if you, you know, for modern family, if there was that waiting period of like between the last screen test and when you got the call, that's like the most agonizing entire time. Every moment is charged. Every moment is charged. Every time the phone rings or something happens. Yeah.

Yeah. That's how I love that you start your memoir out with that, like finding out about getting that role and calling your parents and their reaction, which was sort of what exactly were you expected, which was... It was just while, you know, I wanted them to know that I was very thankful and very grateful and that they wouldn't have to worry about me anymore. Because, like, when my parents found out that I was, like, really serious about the acting

thing, they took out life insurance policies on themselves. Oh, wow. Because they were like, yeah, we just, like, really need to... They were like, we really need to make sure our son is okay. And it was very touching to me. And of course it motivated me to do better. But I was always like, oh yeah, I'm my parents. I'm my parents' fuck-up son.

And so that call was very much like, you don't have to worry about me anymore. Thank you so much. I love you. And of course, I love you doesn't really exist in our language even. The Chinese I love you doesn't really exist in our language even. The Chinese I love you is very like, well, I mean, is very romantic in a sense.

It's not something that you would say to your family members. And so there is actually no way to express familial love. So that's why we do it through have you eaten yet? It's cold outside, you put on a jacket. So I was like, I love you. And they were like, oh yeah, great, great, great. Which, I'm not offended.

I just thought I was having a little bit of fun. I know they love me. They're very proud and very happy and very retired. Yeah, good for them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought we all helped to do to you. Do you remember what it was like on your early days on set?

You know, wait a minute, you started filming this and then the pandemic happened, right? Yeah, we shot maybe, yeah, I know, yeah, I was in Australia with Tony, with Tony Leong, legend, Michelle Yeo, legend, I don't know, Aunt Fina, legend. And we started on Tony's stuff in January

and then I sort of came in at the end of the month, shot for maybe four or five weeks and then yeah, we shut down. It was, I was in the best shape of my life, Jesse, I swear to God, I was in the best shape of my life. I was, I had gotten to Australia in October of the year before and basically just worked out. I did nothing but worked out.

I basically lived in the gym until we started shooting and I'm not even kidding you. The day before my big shirtless fight scene, we shut down. And so of course, when I get the call and they're like, we're starting to back up again, first week of shooting is like the shirtless stuff. So I'm like, oh my God, I gotta get back. Yeah, if only it worked like that.

But of course I had just been like eating, I could have just been sitting at home for four months playing Animal Crossing. Right. Like, so I really, you know, I wish I put a better foot forward, but... Well, I've seen the movie and I feel great, so I don't think you... I wouldn't have known that you had to...

Thank you, I was fishing for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, there you are. And I was also thinking about, you know, your character, Sean, Shang-Chi, is... I love that you started with Sean, because his name is Sean. Sean, his name is Sean, yeah, yeah. He is, I guess, somewhat estranged from his father

who he comes to realize is this epic warrior. And there's a tension between him and his father. Also, in Kim's convenience, there's tension tension between him and his father. Also, in Kim's convenience, there's tension between your character and your father and he's estranged from the family. Obviously at this point, your relationship with your own father is much better and it's really prepared beautifully.

But did you ever feel like there was kernels of pain in those characters from your experience with your parents that maybe helped identify ways to play those roles? Absolutely, I mean, I found, what I found was catharsis, you know? And I found catharsis in even like the very first time that I saw Kim's convenience on stage with different actors.

It was, you know. It's the type of pain that you feel when you're having a cry and you know it feels good. It feels good for you. Because I knew I was watching my dynamic, like my parents and my dynamic play out in real time in front of me. But of course, you know, written by a professional playwright, so everyone is saying is so much more emotive and eloquent and expressive than I could ever hope to be. But I just, you know, all of the words that I wish that I could say to my parents, all the words that I wish that I could hear from them, it was all just playing out. And I was very touching and in the, you know, Sean and Winwoo dynamic, even though it's in the backdrop

of this very fantastical environment where, yes, he's a thousand year old warlord with 10 magical rings. You know, I love watching the scene where they're fighting in the temple for the first time after he's kind of escaped and so he's got this like staff and they're talking about how you know Sean's mother was killed and they're blaming each other for it and you know it's like at that point like all of the CGI and the stunt people melt away and it's really just about a

father and a son and you know and and I like know, I'm just gonna put it out there. I did most of the stunts in that sequence. So I can really. Blown away. Truly. Thank you. Thank you. Again, I was, I was, let the record show that I was fishing for that.

But, but yeah, I mean, it was just, it's incredible because I can feel in even like when I'm swinging the staff, like I feel the desperation and the anger that I felt in those moments and tapping into my fights with my parents and how just viscerally angry I was. Yeah. Yeah, it was a cool scene. Yeah, totally. Walk me through what it felt like to have your parents

at the premiere of the film in Hollywood at the Chinese theater, which is the theater that you went to visit when you first came to Hollywood. Oh yeah, I didn't make that connection. Cause we were in the LCAP, but I think, I think it's all right there. Yeah, right across the street from each other. Pretty, pretty, pretty, here's what I will say.

I remember this, I was talking to Allison about this just the other day, was my parents came down, my parents are eternally immigrants. Eternally, you will never be able to take the working class, blue collar kind of Chinese immigrant out of them. They were so excited. They were like, we're coming to visit you. We booked our tickets for like this day and this day

because the tickets were $200 cheaper. And we will be staying at the like, I can't remember the name, it must have been like the Sunset Motel. We got a great price and they like sent me a link to the play. It's like a murder motel. It's like the one with the, you know, it's exactly the way you imagine in your mind.

It's where people go to like zombie apocalypse or congressmen that are having affairs. Yeah. And my parents were like so excited. And I was like, first of all, first of all, like we will be flying you first class and you will not be staying in that. That's gonna be a PR nightmare that gets out that like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah disbelief when they're walking and I could see it in their faces and they're like that's my son on all those posters yeah and

You know for yeah two people who who have said it with their own with you know in their own words like we're guests in this country You know we don't belong here for you are leading a huge American film. Yeah. Yeah do you feel After that there is pressure for, because you're representing now the first Asian superhero, I know for me when I was doing Modern Family and I'm an out day actor and I was playing a gay character, you know, there was for me this pressure

to sort of represent the entire community. And I was like, I just wanna be able to do one person in that community really well and give them heart and depth and a soul. And that's what I got to worry about. And if it reaches other people, that's great, but like I cannot be in charge of an entire community. Like I can't be here for everyone.

I can't, so there are gonna be people who are worried, who are gonna think I'm a stereotype in certain ways or would think like, I don't represent the way that they are in their lives. in certain ways or which, I think, in fact, I don't represent the way that they are in their lives. And I, for one, definitely took a lot of, took a lot of ownership of that.

And I feel like I took that on and I sometimes found myself disappointed that I couldn't be more for people. Do you feel any of that pressure at all? That resonates really, yeah, so strongly, so strongly. Yeah, coming up, I feel like I saw other Asian actors who were like, maybe not put in the exact same position, but in similar positions.

And I really, I think what I craved at the time was having someone just like stand there unapologetically and say no I will shoulder this burden and I do want to represent as many people as I possibly can and yeah I'm proud of my culture I don't want to I don't want to hide it I don't want to minimize it I don't want to diminish it and so in the beginning I think I really tried to lead with that but I think in doing so I definitely I put a lot on myself and I put a lot on myself to be disappointed as well. It was tough. And then inevitably, you know, what you, what I've learned is that anytime, anytime anyone has a moment of visibility, there's

just, yeah, it's just a pendulum, you know, and, and so I did, I've heard the, this person doesn't represent me, he's not a good represent- You know, and it's tough. It's hard, yeah. But, you know, I would say the silver lining in that is, especially looking at these last couple of years, incredible Asian films and Asian actors that have come up. Like, I am not the only person anymore. And so if people don't feel like I'm a good representation,

then they have other people to look at and champion, and that's totally, that's okay. And I have to make peace with that too. And I hope that you recognize through carving your own path in this industry and finding your place in so many different mediums at this industry, just in the way that you, so many of the films that you spoke of inspiring you, you are holding the door open for so many people. I hope you know that. Do you? I don't know, I don't know.

I hope so. I think you are. I would love to, I truly, I would love to. I think just by being your authentic self and being such a great representation of the first Asian American superhero. I think it's done. You've already done it.

The door is open. Thank you. And I think that's a really amazing thing. You should be very proud of yourself. Thank you, Jesse. Thanks. Thanks for sitting down with me. Oh, you're so welcome.

Thanks for having me. Did you try everything? I think I did. We didn't really make a dent, but that's okay. You didn't try one of these dumplings. Egg these dumplings egg rolls. I'll get in there Next week on dinners on me, you know him from Twin Peaks sex in the city and my favorite show girls Yay, it's Kyle McLaughlin We'll get into what it's like meeting David Lynch for the first time, turning down Oliver Stone

early in his career, and that legendary pull scene in Showgirls. And if you don't wanna wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners On Me Plus. As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad-free. Just click Try Free at the top of the Dinners on Me Show page on Apple Podcasts

to start your free trial today. Dinners on Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Sam Baer engineered this episode. Hans Del Shee composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tamika Balans-Kolasini and Justin Makita.

I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.