Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - Teri Hatcher — on being a ‘Bake Off’ and ‘Chopped’ star, rewatching ‘Desperate Housewives,’ and trying stand-up

Episode Date: October 28, 2025

‘Desperate Housewives’ star Teri Hatcher joins the show. Over crispy trout and ribeye tibs, we talk about her new ‘Desperate Housewives’ rewatch podcast, Desperately Devoted, which she co-hosts with her on-screen and real-life daughters. Teri opens up about revisiting Wisteria Lane with fresh eyes and how her 27-year-old daughter’s modern perspective reshapes her understanding of the series. We also dive into her lifelong love of food — from culinary school to winning ‘Chopped’ and baking in ‘The Great British Bake Off' tent — and how cooking has always been her love language. Teri talks candidly about aging in Hollywood, and about discovering new creative energy through a new hobby: stand-up comedy. This episode was recorded at Aunt Yvette’s Kitchen in Eagle Rock, Los Angeles. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Today on the show, you know her as Susan Meyer on Desperate Housewives. She's out with a new podcast called Desperately Devoted, which is a Desperate Housewives Rewatch podcast. It's Terry Hatcher. And so he backed away, you know, from my body, and he looked at me and he went, Terry, you have a totally average vagina. This is Dinner's On Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Terry Hatcher, she's someone I've been watching on my television for so long.

I am a devoted Desperate Housewives fan. I also loved Lois and Clark, where she was my first Lois Lane. I got to meet Terry about a year and a half ago when we worked on the pilot of a game show, a culinary game show that never got picked up, but I had a wonderful time getting to know her over the week we got to work together. And I'm so thrilled that she has agreed to come on to our pod and talk about her pod.

You know, pod people talking about their pods. I'm here at Aunt Evatt's Kitchen and Eagle Rock waiting for Terry Hatcher. This place is such a gym. It's cozy, it's casual. It's known for incredible Ethiopian food. The Injera, that spongy flatbread used to scoot soup up dishes, the rich spicy chicken stew known as Dorawat,

the vegan saum plate, the crispy trout. It's the kind of food that makes you want to linger and share everything on the table. And we're extra lucky today. The owners, Russell and Yvette, actually opened up just for us. Feeling very special right now. Now, Terry's a bit of a foodie, so I thought this would be the perfect spot to bring her.

Bold flavors, lots of sharing, and that warm, welcoming energy that feels like home. And speaking of home, I'm excited for her to get here so I can talk about a certain home on Wisteria Lane. How about that for a transition? Okay, let's get to the conversation. Thanks for having me, huh? Oh my gosh. I'm thrilled you said yes. So excited to be here. I mean, it was kind of a no-burner that you were going to be here at some point. But also, I'm going to put my glasses on too. Although these are more for readings. I'm going to wait to my menu comes. Well, I have to, I mean, mine are progressives. But, like, if I don't wear them, I can't see the food.

I used to always tell my daughter read all the books that you want to read before you turn 40 because after it's no fucking fun. It's just like, I mean, I do still read. I have a book club and I do love reading, actual reading, not audio reading. Hi. Hi. Good. Thank you. To Rhonda Beth's Kitchen.

I'm in Betts. How are you guys doing today? So good. We're so excited. Very excited about this meal. I'm glad you are. Yeah. So we like to start up by offering you some waters.

Okay. So we have a couple of selections. We have a flat, sparkling, and then we have an essential honey that's water. It's fresh lime, ginger, and a little star d'is kind of lead you into the meal. I should probably have that. I mean, that sounds great. Yeah. I like pretty water.

I want my water to do pretty. It's a pretty water. Be right back. Thank you. Well, no, we share something in common and that we both were part of a game show. Oh, I don't know if I called a game show. It's not a game show. It's a competition show.

of the Great American Baking Show. I was actually on the bake-off. I got to actually say the words bake-off. Because mine never, I was, okay, so I was one. How did that happen? So I was one of the very first celebrity, certainly the first American celebrity, because when that show first came out.

You did the Great British Bake-Off. Yes. And when that show first came out, I was obsessed. Me too. And I get this call, but not. Not everybody was watching it yet. I mean, now it's gigantic, you know. I get this call from my publicist who says,

starts the sentence this way. You're probably not going to want to do this, but you just got offered this show, and he's kind of like, the Great British Bake Off. And I was like, yes! Yeah, oh my God, what, what? I get to be in the tent. Like, are you kidding me?

Yeah. I mean, I literally lost my mind. Yeah, totally. No, no. Just quickly, so we prepared a nice little meal for a week's bay. We do a wonderful rib-eye. Oh. Ethiopian style of rib-eye tips.

And we're also going to do a vegan platter and a fish, which is extraordinary. We're kind of famous for that. Is it the trout? Yes, the trout. I saw that on the menu. I was very excited about that. So it's been a really, really pristine farm up in Idaho, so I think you're going to really enjoy it. Oh, great.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Oh, my gosh. So anyways, I don't know. Did you have the experience when you, like, were in the white tent? Did you just, like, lose your mind? Lost my mind. I mean, I couldn't believe it.

Same thing, though. I mean, it was the easiest yes, first of all, when they asked me. I was like, oh, 1,000 percent. Although my PR team are also all, like, big fans in it. So they're like, you're absolutely going to say yes. I think I was early. I mean, I think people just didn't know what it was yet. And I was like, oh, yeah, I know what it is.

But I'm actually really impressed that you said yes to it because I have been asked to do other cooking competition shows and I have said no, even though I'm very good in the kitchen and I have a cookbook and like, but I did not want to, I didn't want to fail on TV. I did chopped. Did you wear contestants on Chopped? Yeah, for charity, but I won.

Still. But yeah. What were your ingredients to remember? Oh my God, very weird. Like, they didn't pull any punches just because we were celebrities. I think one, I think the appetizer basket was,

I remember there was a can of reindeer paté. Jesus Christ. Yeah. And then in the second round, We know we had really big steaks, and in the third round, I think there was, like, dried persimmons and maybe some weird pine liqueur or something. So the first round, I did, like, a version of a crab cake with all the things, and put it on a little salad.

Yeah. And the second round, I did a steak and, like, broccoli, potato thing. And the third round, I made ice cream in, like, a little pie. sounds great yeah you know i mean i i forgot to put fat in my caramel so it um completely turned into candy you know she's like she's the judge is like you know pounding it with a fork that that show that's insane that seems insane that's insane that is like i when you win it's like starting to get on a roller coaster at six o'clock in the morning that you don't want to get on over and over and over until 10 o'clock at night. That's what it's like. It was, it was, it's pretty brutal. I want to back

a little bit more about the great big, great British bake off. Did you have a feeling when it was happening that you had this in the bag? You had a, you had a feeling you had a good shot. I mean, I just am a, I'm a pretty good cook and I was also pretty prepared. But, but it wasn't really about that, you know. Yeah, I know, but also you want that platter. You want the cake platter. You, I didn't get a, I got an apron that said, um, Starbaker. which I almost wore today. No, I didn't. I got a cake platter.

You got a cake platter? No, they weren't doing cake platters. They were just doing aprons that said Starbaker. I got a cake platter that a local artist made. And so it's like a one-of-a-kind thing. And it's really beautiful. It's, you know, it's ceramic. And they said, you know, we'll take this for you and ship it to you.

And I was like, that's great. Thank you. Because I was traveling around some more and I had the places to go. And about three weeks later, I get this box. And it's, I could already tell. I'm like, not well-wrapped. Oh, no. And I was like, it's just like, mission.

shape in, and I'm like, oh, no. And I, Chris and Wrap it, it's totally cracked. And I called it. I was like, hey, listen, you got to make me a new one. They're like, it's a one of a kind. It's like, you got to call the artist and have them do a new one. I was like, I'm getting my cake platter. So I, and I glued together my original one because I was like, I'm still going to keep

my original one, but I also want one that, like, isn't cracked. So I have two. Oh, that's cute. Yeah. Yeah. But it's a memory that's worth it. I think if you are a fan of this show, then you understand. in your cells what we're talking about.

Like, did you have your moment on the floor where you were screaming bake at the oven? I did sit on the floor. Because I did. I was like, bake, big. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Terry tells me about co-hosting her new Desperate Housewives rewatch podcast

to desperately devoted with her real-life daughter and on-screen daughter. Okay, be right back. You know, one of my favorite parts about the show is how much it reminds me of the little ways people show up for each other. A few years ago, I was starting rehearsal for a new play, and a friend surprised me by sending money for my lunch on the first day. It was such a small gesture, but it made me feel so supported like, hey, I've got you. That's what I love about Zell. Whether it's a big moment or a small one, Zell makes it easy to send and receive money directly between enrolled bank accounts.

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at Simplysafe.com slash Jesse. That's Simplysafe.com slash Jesse. There's no safe like SimplySafe. And we're back with more dinners on me. Hey, guys. It's almost time for your feet. So excited. We like to start you off of a little rosewater hand washing and we'll be able to wash hands before we eat.

But in our case, in our restaurant, we like to put a little rose water in there Kind of kind of... Okay. Oh my gosh, I love this. To that part of the country. They love this. Thank you.

This is so special. Thank you. Oh, it smells so good. Oh, yeah. Wow. What? Wow. Oh, my God.

That is really... So I'm going to give you just a little explanation because we just do things just a little different at a restaurant. This, of course, is your beautiful... trout from Riverend's farm. May I lime it for you? Yes, please.

Lime away. So the idea is to grab the injera. You see where the little cut marks are? You grab a piece of meat and then you have three dipping sauces. You have a Nawazi paste, which is like an Ethiopian kind of hot sauce, but for lack of a better description.

Okay. And then this is Seneffich, which, for lack of a better description, Ethiopian mustard, not spicy. Okay. Okay. Here in my plate, we do things a little different here too. Ethiopian salad beats tomatoes, jalapine, and a nice bright tomato dressing. This is timitim. It's a condiment. It is very spicy and salty. You use it to sort of bolster the flavor of anything. You want a little extra kick. You get that. Here you have your shiro,

which is a chickpea stew, very important in our culture during fasting months. This one, I change out every single week. So this week we're doing Portobella Tibbs, Ethiopian style. Super delicious. Most popular in Ethiopia, Kekalisha, ginger, tumor-driven. Misiadwatra is a burbri-driven slipie. So that is spicy. Okay. And then you have your nice gomen, which is your kale and collard greens. This is a very special guy.

This is rib-eye. Russell makes this, my husband, he does all the proteins, and this is extraordinary. Ribide does. It smells extraordinary. Done medium, just the way you're supposed to eat it, and couldn't be more delicious. Wow. Enjoy, enjoy. joy and we'll bring you as much in jail as you like, okay?

Enjoy that. Thank you. Gosh, I love it. Totally digging in. Do it. Okay. So, well, I guess, I mean, I wanted to ask because you have, I mean, going to culinary school for me has been a bucket list item.

Like, I want to do it. And I feel like I still, I mean, there's always time to do anything. But like, I still want to do it. But it takes so much time. Like, you really have to say, I'm. Yeah. How long was that process? It's like eight to three, five days a week for like nine months. Wow. Yeah. Wow. I don't know. I love it. I mean, I'm sure you feel this way too, but food is how I've always shown love to people in my life. I have huge traditional things. Thanksgiving, Christmas Eve dinner. I used to do a big Easter thing. And even on my podcast, actually, that I'm doing, we decided. to add just, it's not obviously a food podcast, but we decided to add a little bit of food from

each episode that we were inspired about. Like actually, this one that I'm recording later today, the character of Lynette is trying to get her kids to eat Brussels sprouts. And it's a huge fail in the character's life and, and it, you know, involves a big storyline. So I went and made and filmed myself in my kitchen, making the Brussels sprouts that I make for my Thanksgiving every year. And then I'll bring them to their, reporting studio and my other two co-hosts will eat them and we'll talk about him. And then we share that like with our audience. And so it's just, I have to have food.

Food is just, it's a part of everything I do. Well, I mean, just to, since you brought it up, you're doing a rewatch podcast of Desperate Housewives called The podcast is called Desperately Devoted. Is that right? I love the concept because it's you, obviously. And then you're co-hosting it with your, the actress who played your daughter on the show. Yeah. And then also, your other, your third co-host is your real daughter.

My real life daughter. Who is watching it for the first time. Amerson Tenney, yep. Isn't that crazy? It's crazy. But also, I'm just so fascinated by, I mean, the show was such a, I mean, cultural moment, obviously. And I really feel like it changed the landscape of TV in a very influential way. I mean, it was such an incredible show and it has all these strong women at the center of it.

But, like, have you had interesting perspectives from your daughter who's, you know, obviously, how old is she now? In early 20s, right? I'm 27, almost 28. Oh, okay. But, you know, she come from a different era. I mean, she must have an interesting perspective of, you know, what that show is. She uses words like heteronormative and things like that way. I think what's great about it is

she has her point of view from a 28-year-old writer Andrea's 35 and just about to give birth to her first child and then of course I'm 60 and single and I feel like it really does allow us to have different perspectives on life you know

and so we're using it sort of as a springboard to talk about life but also to talk about the show and kind of reflect on it in sort of a love letter kind of a way because it does sort of hold up. It really does. And, you know, you mentioned,

like, when you were searching for shows to watch that were comforting that you'd already watched, there really is something to that. Like, they say there's a science to, if something is nostalgic to you and you know what to expect, it's actually calming. Like, as opposed to watching, you know,

a new, show that you've never seen challenges your stress level in a different way. And I think that's why so many of us are re-watching stuff. Yeah. You know, we keep going back to the same, your show, friends, Seinfeld, you know. Yeah.

And Desperate Housewives, it's so weird. You know, and the truth is, Susan was one-fourth of the show. And so in a way, re-watching it, it's like re-watching a show I wasn't in. I don't know if you ever feel that way. because you guys were kind of divided up a little bit too. We were. With Modern Family, the same way. I mean, a lot of people say, you know, I don't, oh, I don't watch my show.

And I think all of us, the entire cast of Modern Family, would always watch the show because we were fans of the other people we were working with, and we were fans of the writing, and we were fans of the story. And I really feel like I was in the best of both worlds because I was part of the show. And then also I got to be a fan of the show itself. And, like, see the scenes that, yes, I would hear them being read in the TV. table read, but they would change so much. Yeah. I feel exactly that way.

Like I was in it, but I was also a fan of it. Are you going to have any of the other cast members come on as guests? Well, we did, so far, we've only watched nine episodes. So we've done nine episode podcast so far. And we had Doug on, Doug Savant, who played Tom, which was Lynette's husband. And that's actually airing this week. Uh-huh. And that was great.

But primarily, I think it's about the three of us. I mean, that's already a lot of people talking with opinions. And really using the show to springboard into getting to talk about what it's like to be human and, you know, be in relationships and alive and all of it. Yeah. And I have such a special relationship with Aubrey, who played my daughter on Modern Family. And, I mean, I can only... imagine that, you know, going back and looking at this incredibly meaningful moment of your career with, you know, the person who did play your daughter and then also the person who you

were raising during that time, who was not necessarily privy to the day to day. Did you have your daughter on set a lot when you were working? I mean, she definitely was. She has memories of that. She has memories of like the camera operator always making sure that he had her favorite kind of candy in the little candy box, you know? The episode I listened to, she was talking about that yeah and um like that's very vivid to her um you know everybody was always very nice to her when she visited but like i think her recollection is more of how much of a mom i was like how much i kept fame and any sort of fanciness of being a celebrity out of our lives and now as somebody who's a working screenwriter and like has a community that she's a part of you know

I think she kind of looks at me like, wow, mom, how did you do all of that? You know, like, that was a lot of balls to be juggling at the same time. And it definitely was. I mean, certain things suffered for sure, but not her and not our relationship. So that was always my priority. Yeah. And Andrea, you know, she, I don't know if I even deserve it, but like, they, you know, she credits me and her mom, Peggy, does also with sort of being like a

second mom who really championed her confidence and at a time, like 13 for a girl, that's a rough time. That's an awkward, weird time to go through. And the fact that she is one of the kindest um you know just like thoughtful reasonable smart i don't know her family her family's amazing i think you have to take a little well i'm going to make you take a little credit for that though because i think it's to have someone that you look up to who sets that tone in those years especially i mean that show was so popular yeah it could have gone another way yeah it could have yeah i think that i think she looked up to you is like how to behave and how to, I mean, listen, I wasn't with you on set, but I just assume, like, if she is,

as wonderful as you say she is, I have to believe that that partly came from the way you helped. I don't know, but I, I hope so. And I'm just so, we have so much fun, I'm recording the thing together. And, yeah, I kind of joke with my daughter. I'm like, yeah, the way I get to see you consistently is by roping you into a podcast that you have to record. Yeah, yeah, yeah, hire you as a co-host.

Yeah. I think it's great. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. After the break, Terry talks about getting her start by reluctantly going to an open call for the love boat, and we get into her new foray into stand-up comedy. Okay, be right back. Vacation season is nearly upon us,

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October really brings it all, doesn't it? Halloween parties, game-day tailgates, those perfect crisp fall nights, and total wine and more is here for every single one. Whether you're inviting friends over for a spooky movie marathon or just savoring the cool fall air on your patio, you'll find exactly what you need. Thousands of wines, spears and beers, all at the lowest. prices. Mixing up something spooky, Total Wine and More is your cocktail central for all your

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Built for breakthroughs, with personalized workout plans, real-time insights, and endless ways to move. Lift with confidence, while Peloton IQ counts reps, corrects form, and tracks your progress. Let yourself run, lift, flow, and go. Explore the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus at OnePeloton.ca. and we're back with more dinners on me i um i actually i when i was looking at your credits the one show i was like really stuck out that i was like i i wonder if there's any stories that you remember from shooting love boat after that's the last of you're thinking i was going to say i loved loveboat so much yeah so the loveboat for their last season did this big

promotional thing of where they went to all the major cities, and they did auditions for these, I think it was eight dancing girls that they were calling the Mermaids. So it was a strictly dancing thing, and my girlfriend wanted to go. I didn't want to go, but she didn't want to go by herself. So I went with her, and then I ended up winning in San Francisco. I mean, the odds of me getting this job are just ridiculous. And... How many were they looking for? Eight. And I think probably over the whole country, I don't know, upwards of 5,000 people auditioned, maybe more. And so that's what I'm saying. The idea that I was one of the eight was just so silly. So I ended up getting chosen. I think it was SAG scale, which was maybe like $1,200 a week,

which was more money than my mom ever made 25 years at her job, you know. How old were you? 21-ish. Yeah. And so yeah, I got an agent, and then I just, and then I went on to, like doing guest stars and then I did a pilot and then my first movie was the big picture. Right. And it was very, it was a weird career where like every every month I'd go,

okay, I guess I should go back to college now. Like, or I would get a job as a waitress at some Italian restaurant in Studio City and then I'd still be on like a soap opera or something but I'd still be a waitress because I just, it really wasn't until Lois and Clark and this is even

after the big picture And after a couple of these movies, I think like Tango and Cash and Soap Dish, whatever, it really wasn't until Lois and Clark that I was like, okay, I think I'm having a career. Right. And I'm going to start to like approach it that way. Yeah. And not every other day be going, I guess I should leave now. Right.

Would you do have someone who was advocating for you where you feel like you were making more money as you were going along? Or was it the type of thing that you really sort of felt like? Because you're talking about having to weigh tables while you're doing it, did it feel like that was necessary or just as like a safety net? I have always felt like, I mean, I didn't grow up with a ton of money. And I feel like I grew up with parents that were always worried about money. Because they came from the, you know, the depression. And, you know, they grew up with way less than even, you know, than I grew up with.

And I think it was just. That's just part of, you know, I think like, oh, someone's just going to take all the money and then it'll be gone. And, like, I can't say that it's something I've been able to relax about. Like, I'm pretty, like, my cars are all 14 years old. You know, like, I'm, I've lived in the same house for 25 years. And you know this business. You know, you can make a lot of money for a little while and then you can make no money for a long time. Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, I was having this conversation. conversation with Julie Bowen just not too long ago about, you know, just the struggle of getting the industry to sort of look at you with fresh eyes after they've no need to be one thing for 11 years or longer or, you know. I don't know if Julie feels this way. I think for women it's even harder, I think, which I'm actually looking forward to this. Like, especially if you're known, I mean, not necessarily that I felt this way, but when you're known for being, like, quote-unquote, pretty or whatever.

You 100% were known for being this way. I'm going to say it. Okay. And then you get older, and I have chosen to go the route of, like, not doing a facelift, and I don't do Botox, and I don't do fillers. Mostly, not because I have any judgment at all for how a woman decides to age, but because it just in the end, I think it just isn't that important to me. and I did a little short film like a year ago

that I think is just starting to make some of the rounds and it was like a horror sort of psychological thing and man do I look like hell in it and I sort of am excited about it like I feel like it's I'm 60 now and I feel like it's taken this amount of time to sort of age into what might potentially be a new identity that might allow me to work in things

that people wouldn't have thought of me before and I mean just going back to julie I don't know if if she feels that way because I do think people tend to want to hang on to what you were I mean you saw brook shields had that whole book about brook shields not allowed to age yeah and it it is like people you you kind of can't win you're either you either do too much and people people go, oh, look at how sad that is for you, that you're still trying to look young, or you do nothing, and they go, man, you didn't do well, you know. And there's just no, there doesn't seem to be a space where you can succeed, except, by the way, inside. And that is what I concentrate on. And so I'm excited that there's some chapter

in my work that hasn't revealed itself to me yet, but I can kind of feel it. It's, it's, I feel like it's getting closer. Yeah. Yeah. I hope it is. I mean, I think that you've, thus far, had such a wonderful success of, you know, finding your way through so many different facets of your career. I mean, like, I just feel like we have to remind ourselves that these job opportunities are possible. And like, I do think that they are there, you know, for you.

There's, you know, in this next chapter of your career. I mean, you look at like what genes. smart is doing with hacks and stuff, and you think like, and it's so inspiring. She's so amazing. She's so great. And there's other women that age and older that are having moments in movies or moments in television. And, you know, I started dipping my toe into stand-up and I'm writing a one-woman show. And one of the reasons I feel like that is a great arena for aging women is because, like, nobody can stop you from getting on stage and telling your story. And whether it's in stand-up rhythm or in funny storytelling rhythm, I mean, maybe no one

comes, maybe I suck, like, whatever. But I can do it. Like, I can have 30 people in a bar and I can stand up and say things into a microphone. And it's, it's actually kind of a great comfort to feel like there is a place to tell your story. Yeah. Did you take a class to do this? or did you just, like, how do you get into stead? Okay, so I guess my story, like, with it probably starts back in maybe my mid-50s. There was a friend of mine, Nikki Levy, who has a show called Don't Tell Your Mother. And I had the opportunity. She, you know, she came to say, like, do you have a funny story that you would want to get up?

And she'll, like, help you write it if you need help or whatever. And I did that with her a couple of times, and it was very successful. one of the times I told a story about my average vagina. I love how callously you just said that. It was just like, I was just, you know. You know, my average vagina. I have one, like too many others. And that story actually happened in a super organic way

that I had not been having sex in a long time. I don't date very much. And I had met a guy that I, I was dating and I was thinking like, oh, this might be leading towards where we might be intimate. And I have no idea what's happening down there because people say, like, as you age, like, it changes and whatever. And so I thought I better go to the doctor and, like, just see what's going on. So I went to the doctor and he was doing an exam and I was thinking, I don't, you know, how do I, how do I ask? And I'm like, doctor, oh, and by the way, his name is Dr. Johnson.

Like, no joke. It really was. And so he's, like, rooting around, and I finally just... Not rooting around. He was, he was rooting around. I'm sorry, but he was. And so I finally just said to him, I was like, Dr. Johnson, does it look like a guy would have a good time in there?

And he backed away. And this is not a comedy routine. Like, this is my life. And so he backed away, you know, from my body. And he looked at me and he went, Terry, you have a totally average vagina. And I was like, okay, do you mean average like a C? Because I'm not really a C student or do you mean like, you know, anyway. And that was a past fail.

Pass fail, right. So that was kind of the beginning of exploring how you could talk about stories that actually happened in your life in a funny way. And then I got an opportunity to do an actual stand-up for Showtime. It was called Funny Women of a Certain Age. And that was like Wendy Liebman and Marsha Warfield and Carol Montgomery, like really legit star female comedians. And so I had to write 15 minutes, which I did. And the biggest compliment I got was after I did it,

I had a couple comedian friends, say to me, like, who wrote that, you know? I love that. Yeah, and it was me. I'm just so impressed. I think that stand-up comedy for me would be one of the scariest things to do. I think the older you get,

you just have to have a lot of grace with yourself for what you didn't do well. Like, I think I punished myself a lot and have punished myself a lot for, you know, even things as a child, you know what I mean? Like, this is now it's a therapy session that we're having over through. It's at dinner, it's therapy.

But I think the older I've gotten, the more I've reflected on like, you know, life is, it's a journey of opportunities to learn and experience. It's not about being happy. It's not about protecting yourself from being sad. It's not about it's better when you win and worse when you lose. I think all those things that we're taught in our society, actually the wrong way to look at it, I think we should be looking at it as like it's all an experience. It's all of it. And that's the miracle that you get to do that at all. And so it's, that kind of thinking sort of takes away the failure lens. Yeah. You know, the, oh, you're going to

bomb lens. I guess in regards to what you were saying about fear, it's not so much the fear of like being in front of the audience and failing. Actually, when I'm writing, sometimes I can get very caught up in, nobody wants to hear this. Everything I have to say is stupid. Like, you know, nothing I'm saying is clever or funny or whatever. Like, the critic voice comes in at that stage.

I think by the time I actually get in front of people something about my internal mechanism, I can quiet that voice. It isn't until after the performance that I, I go, you suck. Right, right. But, like, when I'm in the performance, I think I'm the same way. I'm in the performance.

I think that's the gift of being someone who has done live theater. You have to turn that off or else you can't survive the 85 minutes. You can't be editing yourself as you're doing it, yeah. 100%. No, I think that's, that is the gift that theater actors bring to their work is that they can quiet it. Also, there's just, there's no way of getting through it. Right. So, I mean, I really relate to that for sure.

You were an only child, right? I was. I am. Yeah, I am. And are your parents still around? They are. I mean, this is actually a major part of my life right now. And another place that I put food into my life.

So I started on Instagram doing these little series called The Sandwich Series, where I make gourmet sandwiches in my kitchen wall. I talk about what it's like to feel sandwiched by your parents. I've been feeling this so much. Yeah. So both my parents are 90. My dad has dementia. My mom is in really bad physical shape, but also just a super independent sort of like pushes back,

which actually almost makes it even more difficult because she should be accepting help that she's not. And then things happen and then she ends up in the hospital and then, you know, whatever. And yeah, that's been like three years full on for me. And so I'm finding this community that I've been creating on my Instagram with the sandwich thing of people, Yeah, so many people are feeling this way. Explain what that is, because I think someone that told me what a sandwich is, and it was like I had never heard it broken down that way, and it made so much sense when it was explained to me.

I think it's the idea that you, as a parent of your own children, would arrive in your mid-50s or early 60s, and you would be kind of at the first point in your life where you'd be like, and now I can make my life about me. Like I've gotten my kids taken care of and now I'm going to pay attention to me. And then you get to do that for like four minutes.

And then your parents get sick and then your children move back home or, you know, it's a tough place to be in your 20s right now, the world. And so many of those kids are struggling. And so that has still continued to be a part of people's lives. But you can feel sandwiched by, by the world, by the news, by your bank account, by your job. And it's that idea that the things that are outside of you

are squishing the part of you that needs to take care of yourself. Yeah. The thing about the children and your children, you know, that I always said to parents was that parenting isn't a sprint, it's a marathon. And there's so much room for forgiveness, you know, of like, you know, trying to hold yourself to some standard where you're going to be fully playful

and fully energetic and fully full of stories, like every minute of every day. Never going off to work. It's just super unrealistic. And once you kind of give in to that, there's actually, I think, some studies that show there's something to be gained by being honest in front of our children. Because when you're not, when you try to be like super dad,

who can do it all and nothing ever, goes wrong, there is some sort of unconscious pressure that they're seeing, oh, I should be able to do it all, all the time, and I should never have any needs, and nothing should go wrong. And so if they see you asking for help, if they see you saying, you know what, usually I'm capable of more, but today, this is all I'm capable of, and that's going to have to be enough, it's actually an okay message because what it's telling them is it's okay for them to feel that way. Right.

Instead of holding themselves to some standard that they'll never be able to. So it's like in our strive to be perfect, we're actually making a mistake. Right. Yeah. And it's all such great advice. I mean, I really honestly wish that I had discovered that you were doing this, you know, a year ago. I think it would have been a really lovely community to be a part of it.

I think that advice really helps so many people. Yeah. that concept of the sandwich parent. And, yeah, I think it's really lovely. Oh, thanks. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I'm so happy you did this.

And what a great meal. And I loved this water. Delicious. No, this was fantastic. And thank you for having me. It was so good to see you. We should cook together sometime. I would love that.

You know. This episode of, of Dinners on Me was recorded at Aunt Yvette's Kitchen in Eagle Rock, Los Angeles. Next week on Dinner's On Me, you know her from the West Wing, I Tanya, The Diplomat, and Palm Royale. It's Allison Janney. Allison will tell me about one of the places she felt like a rock star during the West Wing, and we'll go behind the scenes on her iconic Oscar-winning role in I-Tanya. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners On Me Plus. As a subscriber, not only do you get access

to new episodes one week early, they'll also be able to listen completely ad free. Just click try free at the top of the Dinners On Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Dinner's On Me is a production of Sony music entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hersch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcalf. Sam Bair engineered this episode. Hans Dale She composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tamika Balance Kalasny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.

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