Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - Uzo Aduba

Episode Date: September 12, 2023

“Painkiller” and “Orange Is The New Black” star Uzo Aduba joins the show. Over hummus and crudité, Uzo discusses growing up in a Nigerian household in the suburbs of Boston, what it was like to be in one of Netflix's first hits as a streamer and being in awe of Cate Blanchett. This episode was recorded on June 22, 2023 at the Front Yard in North Hollywood.  Want next week’s episode now? Subscribe to Dinner’s on Me PLUS. As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, but you’ll also be able to listen completely ad-free! Just click “Try Free” at the top of the Dinner’s on Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. A Sony Music Entertainment & A Kid Named Beckett production. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode of Dinner's On Me was recorded on June 22nd, 2023. Hi, it's Jesse. Today on the show, you know her from Orange is a New Black, Mrs. America, and Clides on Broadway. It's Uzoa Duba. We'll get into growing up in a Nigerian household in the suburbs of Boston, being an awe of Cape Blanchett as I am as well. And what it was like to be in one of Netflix's first hits as a streamer.

House of cards hadn't even come out yet. So I would tell my friends, I think it's a web series, and they're like, oh, web series. This is Dinners on Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. So I was aware of Uzoa Dubba, through a few friends of mine who had worked with her on stage in and around New York. And I remember her name because, I mean, well, Uzoa was a hard-named forget, but also

because there was this common thread amongst everyone that worked with her. She was not only one of the most kind and generous actors working, but she was also one of the most talented. I of course became more aware of her at the same time the rest of the world did when I fell in love with Suzanne Warren, also known as Crazy Eyes, the character she created on the breakout hit Orange is a New Black. I always loved running into Uzo at these fancy Hollywood parties because even though we had never worked together, it always felt like we had this secret connection

in our love for musical theater and our shared mutual friends back home on the East Coast. Knowing that Uzo had just announced her first pregnancy, congratulations, Uzo. I was especially eager to sit down and catch up with her over a meal in our neighborhood. Hello, Pintrens of Claus. So I asked Uzo to join me at the front yard in North Hollywood.

With a baby on the way, I know Uzo is being super thoughtful about what she's eating. And I thought the front yard would be a perfect place because they have almost every dietary need covered. That great vegetarian, vegan, gluten free options, and also some great mocktails. So yeah, let's get to the conversation. How's it going?

So you just had a big announcement. Yeah, it's like wild. Like I'm like gonna be a mom. I know. It's crazy. What are you anticipating with this new chapter? Well, and that's what I came here today. I was like, I am going to like pick Jesse's page about like parenting.

I don't know what it felt like for you on your first, but it was like, I made mind like we set up a bass in that, for example, in our bedroom. And I look at it and I'm always like saying to Robert, but husband and like, baby, a like baby is going to be in that. Like that's not decorative. That's like, oh, when that's, I was coming into the house, it becomes very real.

Really? Yeah. I know something about babies, because I baby sat, but I also don't know anything about that. It's so different, yeah. I mean, same with me. I mean, I was, I took care of kids. Like, that was my job when I was struggling as an actor.

I was, I was a nanny. Yeah. Manny, yeah. Yeah. Long live. And I thought like. A manny. Manny, yeah. A-ha-ha-ha's like a real thing, but it's also not a describable thing. Like people say that. I was like, I don't know what that feels like or that needs, but then like now, I mean, I get tear you just think about my son.

Like this morning he cried because he spilled his granola and like milk when everyone was like, embarrassed and upset with himself for spilling. And like my heart broke from him. And I was like, it's not a big deal. It's just milk. And like, I'm gonna clean it. I was like, it's not a big deal. It's just meh. I'm gonna clean it up. But I almost burst into tears with him

because I was so sad that he was so sad. And I was like, what's all that about? And I was like, that's the product of your heart living outside your body. Like, you cannot control that love. And is it also like a little bit of like, I wish I knew how to heal you, to keep you from this feeling.

And it's like, it's not possible, you know what I mean? And you know what it feels like to want to take pain away from something that you love? Yes, absolutely. But it's different with the kid. It's like so different. It's a different level that I didn't realize was achievable.

In a great way, and it like really does change you chemically. I mean, I'm being a parent just I'm a different person. Priorities are obviously completely different. Like okay, that was going to be my next question. It has life changed. Like because that's the next thing I wonder. I'm like how much of my life? Like in real time, real like stakes. Yeah. is it going to change? I mean, like, am I gonna be okay with that also, by the way? And you have to be, it's not like there's like receipt, like you're turning, you know what I mean? You know, I could fly.

I'm still learning how to navigate all this, and I had some really great conversations with other actors who are parents, mostly women, not so many dads, a few dads, but mostly mothers who are like, you know, reassuring me that doing the thing that we love doing and going away and doing that is setting such a great example to our kids, to be able to, you have to do the things that make you happy. So that was something that was actually really freeing for me.

Hi. How are you? Good. Hello. My name is Sonia and I'll be taking care of you. Hi. How are you? Good. Hello. My name is Sonia, and I'll be taking care of you guys today. Thank you, Sonia. My pleasure. I am ready for some hot drinks.

I'm Mark Dill. Marked, oh, in the back. Yes. I'm getting into that refresher. Refresher. Pleasier. Yes. Ooh, that does sound good.

Very refreshing. You know what, I'm gonna do the same. I was eyeing of pressed juice, but that sounds very good. Sparkling water cucumber, lemon lime ginger. Okay, yes. Doesn't that sound like a refreshing? Yes, so we get two refreshers.

Yes, please. And I'm a ticeter, so we'd like me to place in for you. I hear you're eating plant-based, You're doing plant-based right now. Well, I'm not. This child has forged an army. That's really, let's be honest. This menu is being dictated to me already. This child is running out of it. That's already where we are. What would you like guide Uzo to? She's looking for plant-based stuff. Hommas?

Oh! Hommas, yes. I could do a Hommas situation. Hommas, ending, it comes with some pita bread, but then we can do a homestitual. And then it comes with some peanut bread, but then we can do some crudetail, some vegetables, rub vegetables, and decide as well. I know what I want. I'm gonna get the Thai town salad salmon, yeah.

So, to the homest with some veggies. Yeah. Wonderful. Beautiful, so we're gonna start with hummus and crudetail and then a crefse salad for you and the Thai town salad for you. Thank you. the Tite Town Salmon for you. Thank you. Thank you so much. My pleasure. What were you saying about this being able to be? Having you take it back seat to your current away in a way that I think I was really good because you have to be really critical about the stuff that comes to you. I mean

before I had kids like I was in a position in New York as well. Like, we can kind of do whatever we wanted to do. I mean, obviously, they're scheduling things and like, we might have to like say no to certain things. But like, if the opportunity was there, let's go. But now it's like, you have to really look at like, do I want to bring my family with me to this place? And is it going to take me away from my kids? You know, when I was doing take me out, Sullivan was born and I decided to do it, but I was away from him for basically the first three months

and it was really hard. And I'm so happy I did it, but coming back and like trying to get onto this like moving train, that was at home like, you know, Justin had a system that was in place and I was like, where do I fit into this? Right, right. It was really complicated.

And it took me a long time and it was very emotional for me to have to like miss so much of that first part. And I am glad I did it. It was a very meaningful experience. But that sacrificed and that just those few weeks of where I felt like I was like all elbows and knees and just like doing the wrong thing and all times I didn't

know what to do. Like that was taxing on me too. A thousand percent, that's something that worries me like I've just like been thinking, I'm thinking, okay, I had such an amazing mom. I don't want to be less of a parent than what I was given in this parent's, but then I had to remind myself, I was like, all of the sound of a second, who's like, you remember mom being right there

and always there for you, but the two of the matters, my mom had like 90 jobs, she worked a a lot and she wasn't at every game. She wasn't at every rehearsal. But like what I really remember and like hold onto us, like she was there for the stuff that counted, you know what I mean? And like she could put aside what she was doing and focus. Yes.

And like showed up like, I don't, I mean we had no business calling her work as often as we were. So we were like calling constantly and she would answer the phone and very quickly to do this, this is not important. You're calling me about Nintendo, but if I'm calling for something real,

she's like, I'm here, what is it? Stopped everything? And that has given me a little bit of relief of, there gonna be probably moments where you said, has given me a little bit of like relief of like, there gonna be probably moments where like you said, like it's like, you're gonna have to get off at this stop on the train and it's gonna feel like a wild ride like hanging on by the back, getting back on it, but it's like,

as long as your intention is super clear, God willing, they're gonna understand like you are their top priority. The second thing I'll say to that about the parenting, like it took me a minute to sort of buckle up and like get into this. And it was actually when I was doing Mrs. America a couple years ago. Almost every woman on that show was a parent. I remember I kept asking all of them from like Margot, Tracy, Kate, like, Liz, I was like, how do you do it? And like, they were like, you just do it.

And here were these like women who I so admired who had these gigantic careers. And they were managing it. And just were like, you just do it. You guys figure it out. And this gave me some peace. And that like started to like peak open, like my heart a little bit more to something that I really wanted, but was just like, scared enough. I think that there's such comfort in knowing that you're gonna make your own rules

and they're gonna be the right rules for you. And that there is no right way to do it. I mean, I remember Justin and I having like grand poccamations like a right butt, but, but, but, but grand poccamations like a blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Kiyongy, here we will not be using iPads or cabinets in New York. This baby is going to fit into our lives and we're going to have our careers

and you know, just to be the way. And everyone was like, that's cute. All right, it's going to be what it is. Yes, yeah. And it is. That's exactly right. It becomes this thing that you figure out. You mentioned your mom.

I know she passed away two years ago. I'm so sorry for your loss. Thank you. You guys were very, very close. Thank you. And you're close with your father still. Yes. Well, my father also passed away.

Oh, I did not know that. I know. I know that's okay. But he passed eight months after my mom passed away. Oh, sorry. Like such a whirlwind season of my life. But listen, they're like two, they're like the only one of those, she kept giving me the hormones.

I'm gonna blame it on that. That's hard. Yeah, it's a lot, you know? But these are two people who sacrificed their entire lives, worlds, you know, like coming to this country to create life for myself, my siblings, and really hard working people who gave the powerful example of like what this American experiment can become, you know, if you like really grind down work hard and are

willing to dream it for yourself. Your parents were immigrants from Nigeria. From Nigeria, both of them. And my mom, especially, you know, like I was very, very close to her. And like she was just such a powerhouse of a woman, you know, like I've never met a person who didn't like her. You know what I mean?

Maybe save like the growth for the attendant when she comes with like 90 rain checks. But like everybody, you know like loved that woman. She was just like such a hilarious Spunky, you know fun smart loving Fair woman and just and why is this like so incredible and and believer

I forget which I read something and maybe I listened to a podcast and then you did talking about your mom's memorial service and how, first of all, the church itself was completely full and then there was people outside an overflow of people. Like, that's just how love she was. The love, I remember her service. These two women came up to us who none of us have ever met before.

Thank you. Thank you very much. Appreciate. Mmm. Good. Refresh. Not here. Refresh. These, thank you so much. You're my relation. Thank you.

These two women. That's it is. Good, right? Very. Two women we'd never met before. I'm pretty much the most emotional thing. These two women, oh, that's it is. Good right? Very. Two women we'd never met before, came up to my siblings and I, and they were like, hi, we wanted to introduce ourselves.

One lived in Delaware, the other lived in Maryland, and they're like, we came up because we just had to come when we heard Miss Nanya, Anjyaku is how we knew her from my mother's maiden name. They're like, she was our primary school teacher back in Nigeria. Wow.

And they're like, we've not seen her since the 70s. She was like, she was our favorite teacher. She impacted our life and made us believe we could do anything. The both of us women are now like doctors, like one's a radiologist, one that I don't know with the other one, does their like we came to America knowing we could do anything because Ms. Nia, she just kept telling us we could be anything. And I was like my goodness.

Like the impact of a life, first of all, is like the take away there, but then like the impact of this life, I know how she's impacted the takeaway there, but then like the impact of this life, I know how she's impacted me. I'm so proud to be her daughter. Like I'm just real, and in both of my parents, I'm really proud that that blood runs in my veins, you know? I can't only imagine that knowing how much she affected you, what an incredible place to like draw inspiration from,

to say I hope that I can not only be that person to the world, but also like, I not only be that person to the world, but also like, I get to be that person to this child. Oh my gosh, it's like the greatest gift, especially like, you know, it's not easy when like you're bringing life into the world. I don't know, you know, for people out there, you know, like who have the experience of being like a parentless child, and you know, you're now going to be a parent yourself and you're having the experience. You're kind of the next generation. The next generation, and you have these moments know you're now gonna be apparent yourself and you're having the experience of it. You're kind of the next generation. The next generation and you have these moments

when you're feeling this life-grower, learning that life is coming to you. Like, wow, I wish my mom was here, so I could ask her about this. Or like, you know, things moments when I don't know. I worry sometimes in a greater scope. Like, well, what I have to tell her, I don't know. And she's not here, you know, things moments when I don't know, I worry sometimes than a greater scope. Like, well, what I have to do, I don't I know. And she's not here, you know, to help me in, what if I

mess this up? Because, you know, like, there's no one to call. And when I get weeping, like, scared about that, I then like have to remind myself, I'm like, she has equipped you because you love her so much. Maybe she left you like a map somewhere on your heart, you know, to like kind of get through it. You know what I mean? So that's beautiful. Yeah.

I kind of asked this for myself because I mean, we're at that age, obviously, where we're starting to lose our parents. I mean, you sort of spoke on it a little bit, but like, did you feel like a different person? 100%. I didn't know how much more growing up, I mean, you sort of spoke on it a little bit, but like, did you feel like a different person? A hundred percent. I didn't know how much more growing up I had to do until I lost my parents.

I think I really thought of myself as quite well grown up. Oh, wow, yeah. And sort of fully reconciled in my adulthood. And I didn't know that there was as much room above me, that my parents occupied until they were gone. Because now there's no one above me. Right. You know.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, I'll talk to Uzo about growing up in the very white suburbs of Boston. And how an episode of family matters forced a candid conversation with her mom about race. Okay, be right back. And we're back with more dinners on me. Right, salad. Thank you. Thank you. And, down salad, the stir. Thank you so much.

Thank you. You know, it's great. No, this is gorgeous. Thank you so much. You're beautiful. Thank you. Talk to me a bit about growing up in the Boston area as an Nigerian family. So my parents had been in New Jersey, New Jersey, New York, and my father got

a job in Massachusetts. And so they moved to this town called Newton, just outside of Boston for a while. And then it was a schooling, which brought us to my hometown. So they were like, we could either pay for private school to expensive, or we can move further out and be in an area with like good public school. Exactly.

So they did. And my hometown, it was like 8,000 people. Right. Six stoplights in the whole town. My graduating class was 121 people. So small. And it was happy to be small. Let me put it that way.

It's a section of Massachusetts greater Boston that's very glad to be closed. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Say it that way. And had not seen a lot of black people in it, certainly not any immigrant families or few. I think we're just ourselves and one other family that were African immigrants when I was growing up in the town. It was tough on me, but the truth of the matter is like

I speak of my older brother and sister, my older brother in particular, who's the oldest. They took some really serious blows and bullets that protected myself and my younger sister and brother. If I can describe it as like, they experienced like more confrontational, overt, regular racism, along with my parents, whereas I and my siblings experienced more, like micro-aggressions, more, like, a bit more covert systems of, you know. So how did your parents,

and maybe your mom specifically talked to you about racism as she was sort of learning what it meant to be black in America. I remember one time I was watching family matters. Yeah, family matters. Uh-huh, or call. Yeah, or this is the idea. Yeah, Steve Erkler, Stefan Erkalt, depending on the story. Yeah, that's right.

And there was an episode where Laura was running for, like, maybe like, class president or something like this. She was running for something. She's like, I'm gonna run. No matter what, and she slams her locker shut and the N word has been spray painted on the front of her locker. And I had no idea, this is like little Luzo. I didn't know that word.

But I remember the, you know, live studio audience reaction studio audience reaction like oh no you know what I mean and I was like what does that mean? And I remember going to my mom in the bedroom and being like mommy she's like yes my dear social how she says no names yes my dear. And I said, what does NIGGER mean? And her head whipped around and was like the world stopped. And she's like, where did you hear that word? And I remember I was like, I believe it's your family. And I was like, afraid suddenly. I remember feeling really scared. Almost like I said the F word or something, you know what I mean. And I was like, afraid suddenly. I remember feeling really scared, almost like I said the F word or something, you know what I mean?

And I was like, no one said it to me. She's like, where are you asking about it? I was like, I just saw it on TV. She's like, where? And I was like, I saw on family matters, explained to her the context. And she was like, that word is a very bad word. It's a word that people use to be a sense of and insulting

and hurtful to black people. She's like, if ever you hear that word said to somebody, you tell me. And if anybody says that word to you, you come and find me immediately. Yeah. And show me who that person was that said that to you. And I was like, what are you going to do? And she said, I'll deal with it. And I was like, that person's going to get in real trouble. And I was like, okay, that word is a horrible word. And, you know, little did I know two years later, three years later about, I wouldn't counter it, you know, and I can tell you it wasn't the prettiest of scenes. Yeah.

When I told my mom, you know, but I think more than anything, my mom did a lot of like, I don't know what the language would be, I almost call it like protective work. She made this real insistence of like really conditioning us to understand that anything is possible. What was it like discovering the arts and how did your parents support that and how do they feel about you doing that? They were cool with it.

You know, I thought I was gonna be a lawyer for a really long time and I think- Oh, that's so. Yes, but as soon as I switched into wanting to do the arts, they were really supportive. They were clear that whatever you do as our children, you must do your best at it. You know, they, I think we're less focused on the occupation and more focused on the determination. I mean, if you're studying to be a lawyer, you do well in your tests and you study, but if you're studying to be an artist or an actor, it's like you can do as much as you can do,

but really the opportunities are not in our hands. That's someone else is deciding whether or not we're gonna be successful in that career. Correct, but they were also very much so like, this is something that's beyond our control in terms of like the higher, but what you can't do is show up to this audition unprepared. If you were gonna study for that LSAT, you're gonna study for that audition with the same energy. What age were you when you were kind of interested in?

Was it eight nineties? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was like my junior year of college. So it's like 98, 99, you know, I'm saying for my high school, it's in the high school. High school. I had been doing it in my like drama club, you know what I mean at my school, but it wasn't until my creative writing teacher, she was also our director, you know, for the drama club, you know what I mean at my school, but it wasn't until my creative writing teacher. She was also our director, you know, for the drama club. And she kept me after class one day.

And she was like, um, to begin with any thought to what you're doing next year, you know, school applications, what you want to do. And I was like, yeah, I'm thinking about applying to here, here, here, and here. And she was like, um, if you ever any thought to going to art school, and I was like, um, if you ever think thought to going to art school and I was like, no. And she was like, because you show a real love for it. And I think it's something you could maybe do with your life. And I just like, no, Jesse, like I was just like, I had to have been standing at her like Charlie Brown, like the teachers are like, oh, yeah. Exactly. Like, I was just like, what are you saying?

Like, making- Well, it's just as the opposite of what, like, most times when you want to go into the arts, people are like, oh, what's your backup plan? Yeah. Like, she was actually discouraging the back of the plan. I'm saying, no, do the thing, or the other thing. Do this other thing, and all those, correct. But when she said it, I remember like a lightning bolt

coming down on me and I was like, that's what I'm supposed to do with my life. Like it all came together in my mind. Like that is what I'm supposed to be. But it had never entered my mind because there was no- You didn't know the possibility was that. Possibility and like, that's why I love teachers so much.

I'm close to so many of the teachers. I came up with in my hometown and my mother, again, she was a teacher for a long time in her early days. I was a girl of life that came to service her. Correct, and it's like, I'm very clear that my journey is not my own, that it's like a lot of people have stepped in To like help me go this way when I was like maybe just going that way or you know be like a quick nudge You know what I mean? And I feel like

Those lessons those impacts. It's like in me now that it's like God willing. I'm gonna be able to be of service in that way to my own, you know, child to like help them navigate their own life. But it's like, yeah, I really did not know. Do you remember the first time we met? I remember the first time we met. It's how I remember the first time we met. We were seeing a trip to Bountiful.

Oh, yeah, okay, yes. We have an absolutely honest and sincerely ties in. Blair Underwood, Condola Rashad. And you introduced yourself to me and the lobby. And I don't even know if you'd started at Orange as a new black at that point. But I am sort of fascinated by like this kind of slow unfolding of like this career for you. Like first of all, discovery that it can be a thing that you can do, then having success in New York theater. And then, like, what was it like kind of going from that into this career on television, which is completely, if anyone who has been doing only theater

and then done TV, it's like, it is really a 180. I mean, you're still acting, but like, the art form itself is completely different. Completely different. You know, it's like, it is really a 180. I mean, you're still acting, but the art form itself is completely different. Completely different. There's no immediate feedback, you know what I mean? Which is something that I didn't even know that I had grown so used to in a way, of the information that the audience is helping me in the room, even.

You know, any rehearsal room is giving you information? Rehorsal is giving you information that you just don't get. You know, any rehearsal room is like giving you information? Rehearsal is giving you information that you just don't get, you know, on a set. That being said, like, A, two truths, number one, one we were doing orange. I really found that I'm like really attracted to story because I was so scared of it when I first got the job and we first started because I was like,

I've never done this before. Like, what else they find out then I've never been told that I've like spontaneity of it. You just kind of got to go with it. So got instincts. Exactly. When I told Lea Delarie this story, it's so Lea Delarie was on Orchard's block of real and is one of our oldest friends. Yes.

But I remember when she got Orange as a new black, she was telling me about it. And she's like, you know, it's on Netflix. And this is, I had already been doing, Modern Family had just kind of started, I think. And she's like, I got this show called Orange as a New Black. It's on Netflix. And streaming was not a thing.

You all were like, it was House of Cards and Orange as a New Black, but the two shows that started Netflix. Yeah. But that was it. Yes. I remember, I told, like, in my head,

when she told me I'm doing this thing for Netflix, I was like, oh, honey. Oh, God, cheese. Like, all right. Good luck. Good luck, cheese. What's a cult? Oh, okay.

Oh, well, I'll keep an eye out for it. And of course it became this cultural phenomenon. Now for a quick break. But don't go away. When we come back, Uso tells me more about orange is a new black, and having no idea it would become as huge as it did. Okay, be right back. And we're back with more dinners on me. What was it like to not only be starting off doing television, but then be doing it on

this platform that no one kind of knew the rules of, being in it was like a new thing. You didn't just shoot a season of television and then hand it all over to the consumers at one time. But that's what you did. Yeah, it was so foreign, you know, like especially like early days, because it's like just as you said, there was nothing else there when we were shooting the show. House of cards hadn't even come out yet. So like I would tell my friends, I was like, I think it's a web series. Like, I don't know. I was like, and they're like, well, web series. And I was like, yeah, I was like, and I guess Kevin Spacey and Robin Wright

are doing a web series too, because they're all full on, you know, and then like. That's how I would have described it. Yeah, it was on the internet. I don't know, I guess they're gonna put on YouTube. Like that was literally my thinking. And then I saw like house of cards and I was like, okay, so it's gonna come on TV

like this, but like... But you have to buy an app. Yeah, it's so like... So, like, so foreign. And the idea, like you said, of like, it all just coming out at once. It was so crazy. So the show came out on a Friday. Um... All of it. All of it. And I remember we were going bowling as a cast. I don't know, like walking from one of our producers' houses to the bowling alleys in the summer. And I had my hair because I used to wear my hair like that. Like something. And I was like, do you think I should take my hair out of these knots?

Like is it to recognize because we had started to see like our Twitter followers like Skyrocket and jump up and things like this and everybody was like, no, it's totally fine. And like it's like fine. I was like, okay, yeah, great, okay, cool. You're right, I'm being silly. And so like we walk out, we made it a Jesse, like half a block and these two like frack guys

were like, you crazy. I was like, I'm like across the street. And I was like, these nauticals are coming up right now. I was like, I took them out. And I never wore my hair like that again. Not a day. I didn't imagine.

Well, now I mean, your pass the point I never turned. People know who you are. But it's like, we've been doing this for months at this point. You know what I mean? like walking around the city. We didn't think anything about it. And then all of a sudden, we were surrounded by all these people. And you know, I mean, you were on a huge show too. Modern family, that's like, yeah, it was big.

But it also didn't, like, we did. The thing that always blows my mind with these streaming shows is you just, you hand it all over at the same time. And so we're with modern family. Like, you know, you handed all over at the same time. Like, and so, where, with modern family, like, you know, people were slow to kind of discover it. I just feel like with the Orange is the New Black, overnight, everyone was talking about it, and like the whole season was available,

and it just felt so big in a way that I can't remember ever feeling like another show had been that big before, so immediately. Yeah, I think. And things grow to that height, but like sure show had been that big before so immediately. Yeah, I think. And things grow to that height, but like sure. It was just big immediately. That feeding frenzy, I guess I would say, existed because at the time of our show,

there really were like rare spaces to find so many different types of women, women telling these types of stories, women without apology, you know, just like out front down center, balls out, you know, like confronting complicated and complex characters, which was great, but it was like great to see. It was another level though. I mean, there was, you had women of all colors, all ages, in a prison, which is, yeah, identities. You had a trans woman, playing a trans woman. It felt very revolutionary and very untapped

in a way that I think just, it headed just such a, the right time. Also, the show itself was sort of uncategorizable, and I even know like when it was time for Emmys, like people like, what is it? So the show itself was sort of uncategorizable. And I even know like when it was time for Emmy, he's like people like, what is it? Yeah. You know, is it a comedy?

Is it a drama? And like you actually the show end up flipping categories at one point. I think, am I right that you're the only actress to have won for a comedy and a drama for the same character? Myself and Mr. Ed Asner. Wow. for a comedy and a drama for the same character. Myself and Mr. Ed Asner. Wow. That's the little trivia that I can offer to the room.

Really, really amazing. Wow. But it's this, I mean, and I wish I could take credit for that. Genji and her team of writers, like she had a amazing group of people who have all gone on to be amazing be amazing directors and writers in other ways. She saw the space as freedom and like took an arm with it and was like, oh you're gonna let me do what I want. And I'm just gonna write a show, totally that's whatever I want it to be.

That's totally revolutionary. It's normally like a studio and granted it was, I don't know if Netflix was technically a studio at that point. I guess it was, but like normally I say it has to be categorized as a thing. It's either this or that. And it wasn't either one of those things. And it had funny moments and it had incredibly difficult moments. And I just feel like that show specifically really set the stage and opened the door for so many other story tellers. To do whatever they wanted to do and just tell the stories I wanted to tell, not worry so much about what the network is expecting from them. It was just such an exciting time. Same, same. Yeah. Yeah. A green. Yeah. A orange. Old battle chestnut.

All the battle chestnut. All chestnut. Hey, Doh. And then, like, you obviously then went on to do another big ensemble show with Mrs. America playing Shuleichism. What was it like, first of all, being with that, another ensemble of badass women, and playing someone that is so important to our history as Americans. Oh, it was amazing. It was funny because right before I got that job,

we were getting ready to finish Orange. And I had been so sad about it. And I was like, oh, I want to really enjoy this year. And I kept saying to myself, I was like, oh, make sure you enjoy every day because this is never gonna happen again. You're never gonna be on a show or on a project with predominantly women who you respect

in a story that has something interesting to say. Oh, wow. You basically wished another one into the universe. I was like, it's never gonna happen again. Oh, much job. Yeah, it's exactly. Exactly. And I was like, oh, well, happen again. No, it's not. Yeah, it's exactly like. Exactly. And I was like, oh, all right, it's gonna happen in four months.

So it was like, awesome. And I mean that in the true sense of that word, in that all of these women who had these, like I said, like Titans in this industry who I respect for their craft, they were like so fierce, so strong, like so unique, and who had been fierce and fire for years. That I was just like, deliciously swimming in like the energy of the room.

And then it was inspiring also because, Cape Lanschette, who I love and have loved for years, well before, who would have every right and every permission at this stage in her career to take a smoke break if she wants to and just like phone it in, would like come so ready. You know why? Tate of people. Yes. Yes.

She's a theater actress. Correct. Every table read, she was like pretty much off book. Of course. She was like, oh right, pretty much off book. I expect nothing less from Kate. Get on, come on. At all, stayed hours afterwards to work on the material.

After she's wrapped, mind you, she's number one on the call sheet. And that just like taught me like, to the discipline of it, you know, like, of that love, that work is not by accident, is what I was like, it's not by accident because she works really hard at it. But I was like, most in love with, I was like,

these women still love it. And we'd rehearse and be like, Oh, well Mark, I think we're gonna get another theater. Theater first, yes. We'd rehearse the scenes and be like, well, let's try and do it, let's hear it this way. Like, let's get there early so we can like, make sure we like, you know, and I was like,

I just loved that. You've done so many different types of parts, but one of my favorites will always, in forever, be seeing you on Broadway and Clides. You're so fantastic in that. Talk to me a little bit about working with the Great Lynn Nottage, who is a brilliant playwright for those who don't know, about working with the Great Lynn Nottage, who is a brilliant playwright for those who don't know. The only woman and woman of color to win two Pulitzer prizes, fantastic playwright,

and Uzo was spectacular in her play that actually ran right before taking me out and started. Yes, which I got to see. Okay, before I jump, I got to see that, and Tony well deserved, but Jesse. Thank you. Well, Tony, I'm a nation ball deserved for you. Thank you, sir. But I saw, I knew I knew as I got to see that. And Tony well deserved, but Jesse. Thank you. Well, Tony's not a nation ball deserved for you. Thank you, sir.

But I saw a new, I knew as I was watching him, and we were giving that speech, I was like, this is going to go to just like that is, that second act monologue, which is a bear. I think yes. And but you did it so beautifully, which was a bear, I was like, yes, this is. You were so sweet.

Everything. Like this is, yes, this is. You were so beautiful. Everything was like this. Not small, not easy, heavy lift, and he's done it quite well. Yeah, thank you, thank you. It was great, to be honest with you, when I got the phone call from my agent, I was like, oh, we have this place.

Come in, it's in your inbox. Check it out. And I looked at it, and we're on the phone, and I'm looking at my inbox as we're talking, and I see a new play by Wooden Otage, and I was like, then I have to tell, I'm like, the answer is yes. I can't read it, just to say I've read it. But the answer was, she's my favorite, and I'm not saying that for the purposes of now having that was like, this is my favorite.

She wrote my favorite. Had you ever met her before? I never met her before. And your favorite play? Ruined. I was like, I saw Ruined four times. The answer will be yes. And then I see, as I'm scrolling directed

by Kate Worisky, who did Ruined as well. Yes, and sweat. And sweat, exactly. I could be playing a fly on the wall. And I'll be glad to have done it. And I was really excited. I was very nervous. And I hadn't done a Broadway play in 10 years at that point.

Well, and you hadn't done one since you had sort of gone famous. And so like, until the working on tell, yeah, I hadn't. I hadn't, which is a different animal. I don't know if you've done that way absolutely after modern family my first time back on stage There's something that precedes you on stage Before you even make your entrance people are expecting something

Yes, and there's also that that very difficult task of having to crawl out from the thing that people most know you for It's very complicated a thousand percent that that people most know you for. It's very complicated. A thousand percent that allowance that everyone else who is maybe not on a current show is given. It's, like you said, it's a tough dig back. And these are champagne problems. 100 percent.

But it's also a challenge for sure to also do. I was nervous about all of that. I was, the idea like arms folded in the seats with critique and judgment that I have never asked for or will they're wanted. And that time also face masks. And you can tell people are smiling or not. Do you remember?

Yes. Going to get tested. We have to get tested for every performance. And you look at the audience and everyone has to, you can't even tell people are allowed, you can hear laughter. Yes. You can't see people smiling or enjoying themselves. At all. Just eyes. Just eyes.

Just be the little eyes. Just guys. For us, we weren't doing a lot of like post-show hangout even because you had, there was no glass house, there was no barcent, you know, and anything like that. The thing that like is so fun about being in a play Is there you know the social aspect after the show? After the show everybody comes to me. There was not you weren't doing any of that and it's like I think that but

Also kind of like a real privilege at the same time to be a part of like that You're also part of the one show the first shows, but yeah, yeah, the first show is back after COVID, welcoming Broadway back, reopening Broadway. Yes, that's a special season, I think. I don't know if you've heard about it, but it felt like a special season. But more so for the shows that opened in the fall that really started up the season again, we were in the spring, so people have been, things have been sort of figured out by that point as far as testing and like what meant for the audiences to come to this show.

And we sort of followed in their footsteps. But I really, the first shows that opened up that Broadway season were, I mean, I feel like you all are heroes. Yeah. Well, I mean, we did our best and we were like navigating audiences were navigating. I remember like our early applause audience, like when we were do curtain, you know, like sometimes people would be crying. I would say to my castmates, I was like, I don't even think this is for us, to be honest with you. I was like, I don't-

In some ways it wasn't, it was just the right thing back in the theater. Correct. Correct. I was like, I'm not sure this is in response to what we just did for this hour 30. I think this is in response of community, creating a space for community.

Yeah. And that's when you realize just like how much the theater means, you know, and it's people. Yeah. And I do think a lot of the actors that were a part of that season coming back after COVID were for like the not to say that it was only, uh, but like the the artists that really truly loved Broadway and had to do it and had to be a part of that season. If we're given the opportunity, we're not going to say no. So it was a very special season, absolutely. Do you think you would more theaters something you'd like to do or want to do or?

Sure. I will say that's the one thing with kids. That's the hard one. Really? It's not, it's easier. Because you're one of those in the rehearsal? It asks a lot of the family. It's easier when the kids are so young and they don't really don't remember.

It's like I said, you know, Sullivan was born while I was doing take me out. And like I had such a guilt being away from him. And everyone's like, well, he won't remember you being gone. But it does ask a lot of, you know, it asks a lot of your spouse. It asks a lot of your family members because you being gone. But it does ask a lot of your spouse, it asks a lot of your family members

because you're gone for rehearsals. And then the evenings are not yours any longer. And you know how it is when you're doing a show. It's like, kind of think about it all day. Your mental capacity is really wrapped around that show. So yeah, it's definitely hard. But. I want to do it again.

I hear what you're saying. I think this is true for all work, you know, in general, moving forward, but for sure, with the theater, it's like, you're living too live, you know what I mean? Especially if you're like, I mean, if you're in a musical, it's like, sometimes you're not even talking during the day I know.

Yeah. It would be have to be something that is like, I just, an itch, I can't scratch, you know what I mean, like that level of importance. And, you know, and I would do it. I would do it. I have this thing. I don't know.

You said something earlier where it's like, well kids will show up and tell you what's actually going to happen, you know, like what's really on the menu? Yeah. Um, but I have this thing that I say, I'm like, when I leave here, when it's time for me to like pack up and go, I really, really pray that my family said like she loved it. Like she really enjoyed life. You know, and like I wanna be that example. You know, parents teach you like lots of positive

and like negative, can teach you negative things you wanna do and things you don't wanna do. You know what I mean? As a adult and growing up. One thing I knew I wanted to do is like, I want to put the heat on for as long as I want, you know, like, cause we had to regulate the heat when I Yeah, I'm gonna put on whenever I feel like

Yeah, as I like you know now I have common sense That's what I like thought That's what my being an adult next year. Yeah, turn on the heat. He wants Yeah, not put on a sweater Yeah, whatever I want um, and, um, you know, like, I am so grateful for the amount of like work and jobs and like, things saccharizes that my parents took on

so that they could like take care of the five of us. You know, my mom in particular, like, at times, working like, like three or four jobs. And I'm like, man, she loved us so much and like had so many like little sparks of moments where she was enjoying, like, I wish like she had more of life that was her own to enjoy, you know what I mean?

Not enjoying it because she's taking pleasure and seeing us get to enjoy life, you know what I mean? And I might tell him really selfish, maybe that's what parenting is, I don't know, but it's like I would like to be able to pass on to my kid like, I want you to see me. Yeah. Enjoy it. Yeah. And that doesn't mean and your expense and abandonment, it means like I want you to see life be real good to me and me really enjoy and eat it up all the time. And so I say that to say that it's like, well, I do play tomorrow. I don't know. Will it be five years from now?

I don't know, but it's like, but if it's something that's going to be joyful and make me enjoy, my sign off on my email is go and enjoy. You know, and it's like, I want to do that. And like, I want them to see me enjoy life. I think that's really important. That's right. I think that that's a secret to, I think being a great parent too is because I think that

that's eventually what you're going to want for your child is for them to see that, recognize it and hope that for themselves as well. Yeah. I can't think of a better way to end that. They keep for having a little dinner with me. Thank you. Yeah. That was bomb for the record.

Was it great? Delicious. Very refreshing. Very refreshing. Too refreshing. Too refreshing. Too refreshing. Next time on Dinner's On Me, Chelsea Clinton. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. place. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinner's On Me Plus. As a subscriber, you not only get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen to them completely ad-free. Just click Try Free at the top of the Dinner's On Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start

your free trial today. Dinner's on me is a production of Neon Hum Media, Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Becca Productions. It's hosted by Yours Truly. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Chloe Chobal is our associate producer, Sam Bear, engineered this episode. Hans Dail Shee composed our theme music. Our head of production is Samuelison,

special thanks to Alexis Martinez and Justin McKeeda. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO you