Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - Zachary Quinto

Episode Date: August 15, 2023

“Star Trek” and “Margin Call” star Zachary Quinto joins the show. Over Greek chop salad and crispy artichokes, Jesse and Zachary reminisce on hitting the bars in Silver Lake as single men. Plus, Zachary recalls his experience coming out publicly, and his special relationship with the original Spock, Leonard Nimoy. This episode was recorded at American Bar in Greenwich Village, NYC. Want next week’s episode now? Subscribe to Dinner’s on Me PLUS. As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, but you’ll also be able to listen completely ad-free! Just click “Try Free” at the top of the Dinner’s on Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. A Sony Music Entertainment & A Kid Named Beckett production. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode of Dinner's On Me was recorded on June 12, 2023. Hi, it's Jesse. Today on the show, the star of Star Trek and the boys in the band, my dear friend Zachary Quinto. We'll talk about how his mom's passing changed his perspective on life. Our early days hitting up the Silver Lake Gay bars and his special relationship with the original Spock, Leonard Nimoy. He was just a great cheerleader and a great support and the thing that I would never have

anticipated from my experiences was just how close we would be. There was something very paternal about the relationship that I shared with Leonard. This is Denner's On Me and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. I met Zach Quinto about, gosh, 20 years ago, after a solo cabaret show I was performing at Joe's Pub in New York City. The show was called Audio's Pantalones,

if anyone is curious. He had come to the show with a mutual friend of ours who I think was trying to set us up. Even though the internet is insistent on connecting us romantically, we've actually never dated. We did, however, become very close friends and our connection only deepened after I moved to Los Angeles.

Zach had relocated to the West Coast a few years before me and took it upon himself to show me around all the cool parts of LA's East Side. Even though Zach and I are in constant communication with each other, I haven't seen him in person for nearly a year and so I was so excited to catch up with him in the city that initially brought us together, New York. I asked Zach to join me at American bar in the West Village. American Bar has only been open for a few years, but it has the energy and feel of a New

York institution. It has these chic yellow walls, a beautiful Tarazo bar, and these old-school brass rails around the cocktail lounge. It's always packed. I was so glad to see them survive the pandemic, and I thought thought why not invite Zach to a place I enjoy so much That's also and my neighborhood Okay, let's get to the conversation I'm so happy to see you I like the summer must do you like it. Yeah, I do. Thank you

I had a beard for this last job and then I came home from and I kept the beard for like a month afterwards Then the other day I just got the impulse to get rid of it and then as came home from, and I kept the beard for like a month afterwards. Then the other day, I just got the impulse to get rid of it. And then as I was shaving it, I did that thing you do. Did the theory pause, like this? Could I make this work? Yeah, I did the exact same thing. You should have the ability into it, and then you're like, well, that looks ridiculous. So then you lose that and you have my session.

It's like, it actually looks fine. So I've kept it. Thank you. I dig it. Thanks. Hi, how are you? Hi. How are you doing?

We're doing good. Thanks. Thank you so much. Okay, Here we are. Thank you very much. Well, we've been here before. We have. How have we been here together? Together. We just reminded. We have a couple great items for you here today. So I would say we're really known for our salads. We can make most of our salads vegan, our chopped salad and our peanut chicken salad, or too most popular. And then yeah, we also just add our avocado toast to the menu. You can add smoked salmon or lobster that

and it comes with a jammy pocheg on the side. Jammy egg, that sounds, what does that sound? Jammy egg, what the hell is it? Jammy egg. It's like a soft one with that. I see, jammy egg. Does it sound appealing to you? I'm gonna come up with a different name.

I don't think jammy's like a great word. Jammy egg. It's a good book author myself. Yes, yes, right. You have. Do you want to just get those things and share them? Or do you want to? Yeah, if I was order anything on the menu,

I get a Greek chop. Boy, you're being do you want to get any water started for? Sure, sure, water. A cocktail sparkling or a bottle of tap. Still it's fine for me. I'm also going to have a nice tea. I don't have a lemonade, please. Thank you.

I see. So now we can, please. Thank you. I see. So. You're making kissing. It's an Arnold Palmer. Speaking of kissing, you really brought it right to the heart of the matter, haven't you just seen? What? Dating.

Didn't mean to forget about this early. Yeah, you were going to, you were going to save that. I was going to save for the end. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, hour two. And before we depart, what's going on with your love life? What are you going to get? Is the Greek Chop and Option? Can I get it?

I'm gonna get that with no tomato, please. It's here, all right. What are you gonna get? I'm gonna get crispy artichokes and the chop salad. Are you okay with the super salad or the queso fresco? Everything that comes on that? Uh-huh. Awesome.

I am. Thank you. Thank you very much. You know, our early days in LA together, you You know we did live close to one another on the east side of LA and I knew you know You were you were out to your friends you were gay you were enjoying your life as a gay man You were going to act bar together with which is that part quite a lot one of That's far from Los Angeles on the east side we were there bit. We sure were. And I do remember also like when backpack, oh backpack.

There was a guy at Act Far who was wearing a backpack. It just is wearing a backpack. Jack and I both thought that you really handsome. He's wearing a backpack in the bar. And Jack and I thought he's both really handsome and Zach ended up

having a knowing him knowing him. I totally forgot about backpack. Yeah, backpack. But I mean, those moments were so special, just having that sort of safety net in LA, having someone who was a part of the queer community, although you hadn't come out publicly at that point yet. But like, you know, some of that I felt safe with and showing me to all these places, having a wingman, you know, to be a single man in Los Angeles and go to these places. And I also remember when I leaving that bar and across the street

above the Tanks Dome, it was a huge billboard for heroes. Oh, yeah. But then right after you joined heroes. So I was also watching, because I moved LA, I was part of a sitcom that did not succeed. I've kept my anonymity pretty much intact. There was a few people who maybe knew who I was, but you were, you were thrust onto this wildly popular show, mid-season in the first year, as a character that had been talked about a lot in the series. You were the villain that finally

made an appearance, Siler. Do you want some of these hard chips? What is this, hard chips and fries? It looks like a little... Poo-poo platter? Yeah. Poo-poo platter fried things. OK. So good.

I got to watch you, you know, a friend, what I considered a contemporary sort of move into this other area of success. And it was the first time, I mean, I guess I saw it a little bit with Liz Banks, but I wasn't going out to gay parts with her. Sure. You know, it was the first time I was seeing a friend of mine

sort of like in real time, have a great break. And sort of also navigate what that meant for his personal life. Can you speak a little bit to like what that because this is again before you came out publicly, right? We will get to but like, what was I like for you? Because in my eyes, you didn't change too much of your behavior? Yeah, I really didn't.

And that's a commitment I made to myself early on when I realized that my experiences in the world were changing a bit. You know, I made a real conscious decision and commitment to myself that I would not change my experiences of the world. Does that make sense? Yeah. I wasn't gonna allow exposure or fame, celebrity to define my experience or to define who I was.

I think my friends and the people that were close to me and that I trusted before all that happened became even more important to me. And I had been out for a while. I think it was eight years that I was in a light before heroes. Happening heroes was really the the project that changed my trajectory. And then immediately after heroes I got Star Trek. And so that year of my life was the year I turned 30. It was so crazy, you know, for one thing to happen that felt like, oh my God, look, I've achieved this thing. And then six months later, this other thing happened.

Right. It was like, oh, I can't even, it felt like hitting a lottery twice, you know. You know, in those moments with heroes, when you were like meeting the cast, you were meeting the people in the hair and makeup trailer. Right. Sort of like not necessarily like the executives, you know,

maybe even like the writers, or maybe even the writers. Were you open about who you were in your private life, were you guarded, were there certain people that you were telling these things to, or sharing things with, and certain people that you weren't, were you compartmentalizing and keeping that out of the conversation?

Yeah, I mean, I wasn't leading with it. It wasn't something that I was talking about openly. It wasn't something that I was actively trying to hide. You know, when you and I were coming up, it was a completely different time. And the idea of being gay was entirely different than it is now. I mean, the changes that we've experienced in the last 15 years in our cultural society and our business are momentous. So it was something that I still felt like I needed to control. There was a sense of needing to decide what the narrative would be. I mean those were those were the days of fear of lack of opportunity. Yeah, I think for fear of fear, just for fear of,

we were conditioned to be afraid of being gay. That's just the truth. I mean, that's true of my upbringing. I was raised very Catholic and the church, the way that things were instilled in me as a kid, led me to believe that there was something wrong with that part of me. That was the days when Perez Hilton was still outing people. Someone caught a whiff that you might be gay, then all of a sudden this kind of attention

got paid to you that was, there was an insidiousness to it and there was a perniciousness to it. So I was definitely aware of that. I was out to everybody in my life, by that time my friends and my family. Well, if you were operating on a day-to-day, like if you wanted to go out to a gay bar, you were not worrying about that. No, I wasn't. And there were people that would see you and maybe talk. And that was not. So I didn't make you nervous at all. No, it was more of a public narrative than anything else. It was my life as an actor and my career was something that I was very measured about. I was very, for those first years of success, it took me five years after heroes until I

came out publicly. Coming to that soft realization yourself is incredibly important and it needs to be on your own timeline. Yeah, it's, I mean, coming out is an incredibly personal journey and it is an evolution and it feels like, especially when you're in the public eye and making the declaration of identifying as a member of the LGBTQ plus community,

there are other considerations and I think you can't be an effective contributor to the broader cause unless you've arrived there in an authentic way and nobody can define what that is except yourself. I was aware of it and yeah, and then eventually like when I started getting closer with castmates and people in in the world of the show I started to with castmates and people in the world of the show. I started to acknowledge that to them. And I can remember being at Comic Con for a panel for heroes. And this was a defining moment.

It was one of those big panels at Comic Con in like college, with like thousands and thousands of people. And this moderator was a well-known filmmaker and he was doing the interview and Then he at the end he said something. I don't think he said faggot But he definitely said something like he made some reference not to me was like it was doing interviewing and it was a gay reference and I was Absolutely Furious. I was so angry.

I couldn't believe that it had happened, that he had said it. And it was so casual, like cavalier. And we got off the stage and I was, I was so mad. That was for me a moment, because I hadn't come out yet. You know, I hadn't been out publicly and I hadn't even been out to everybody in my show. And I just remember thuming and talking to our showrunner and our producers. We're all hanging out afterwards. And just like the level of support that I got from everybody was so overwhelming and the

sense of understanding. And there was a lot that was unsaid and unspoken from my position. You know, obviously they didn't need to know why I was so upset by it. They knew why I was so upset by it. I need to say it. That was a moment for me that sort of really softened the boundaries around my relationship with my classmates and my co-workers, my colleagues. There was been spoken and understand.

Yeah, of course. They saw that it had affected me so personally, and even though I hadn't explicitly come out to them, but it didn't take much to figure it out. And it was things like that, right, that I think over time made me more comfortable and more confident in my authentic self. And over, you know, the next few years, I was able to find my way to making up more of a public acknowledgement of my identity. Right. Which eventually happened when you were doing angels in America.

It didn't happen when I was doing angels in America. Actually, interestingly, I thought it would. I thought it did. No. I did angels in America in 2010. I didn't come up publicly until a year later, 2011, actually. So when I was doing in just America, obviously, I thought, well, this is gonna be the moment. And just to pause really quickly,

like, angels in America is like, this iconic, it is the crown jewel of queer theater. Yeah. Gridden by the Tony Christianer, the brilliant Tony Christianer, one that peeled the prize, one Tony Awards, and you were involved in the first New York revival of this piece. And there was a lot of eyes on it, a lot of excitement around it.

It was originally done in 1994. And we did the first New York revival at the Signature Theatre in 2010. So I was being interviewed for a profile in the New York Times. And I had this interview with this journalist. And he asked me this question right at the end. He said, you know, there's a lot of speculation online about who you're dating. And if you're dating or who you're dating,

and I just wonder what that's like, you know, do you, and I just remember like sitting there with him and being like, oh my god, he's not gonna happen. He's not gonna happen, he can't do that. And I just, I remember saying like, oh, I really copped out and I said something like, well, I'm much more interested in what people have to say about my work than about who I'm dating, you know.

Which in Hollywood. You know, journalist terms is like, yeah, okay. Sure, honey. Um, we get it. Okay. Um, but I just wasn't in that moment. I just wasn't ready. Yeah, I wasn't ready we get it. Okay. But I just wasn't in that moment. I just wasn't ready. Yeah. I wasn't ready to do it.

But going back to what I'm saying, you have to be ready. You have to be prepared. Of course. I mean, there's no. Don't feel bad about that. No, no, I don't feel bad about it. You know, I did feel like flagging it as an opportunity.

A missed opportunity in that moment. Okay. And I did feel like there was part of me that felt like oh my god You know how I'm doing this play about the AIDS epidemic and you know so much about honoring the The people who died and you know like my four bears and it would did I did I squander that opportunity There was there was that question that I had for myself. And another thing that happened that same summer, while I was doing in just America,

was the summer that it gets better campaign was kind of at its peak, right? So people were all these people from the LGBTQ community and allies were making these videos to say it gets better. And all these young people were killing themselves. That's the right, if you remember that. But like there were a number of suicides of young people who were bullied and you know who who just felt like there was no other way no other and they were killing themselves. And so that was

really the genesis of the it gets better campaign. And I remember making it gets better video that summer while I was doing games to the America, but I hadn't come out publicly. So for me, the video was, you know, I stand with as an ally. You know, I didn't acknowledge my own identity as a gay man, but I said, like, I support all these people and, you know, any young people, like, you know, it does get better. And whatever I joined, I think I said something like I joined the chorus of voices who were rising up again, whatever. And put that video out. And so I was doing this play and I was living my life and going out and dating people and

having this experience. Not me. Not me, as he thought. Not me, but others. And back back. Back back, no, back back. I had been sailed, that ship had sailed. But yes, and having these experiences

and not living an authentic life, you know. So, and the play was incredible. I mean, I had an amazing time doing that play and living in New York. And so that was really that, that for that time. And then a year later, I was doing, by this time now I was dating, was I dating Jonathan by now?

I think I was, yeah, because we we were yeah, we met oh here we go Here comes sounds coming in from a distance special silence Do you want those? I think I might be okay with that. Yeah, no, I was a good taste. Yeah, you can take them We're gonna be just a small table Shop, so thank you. It is a very intimate table right at the climax of the story. I heard of it. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, we'll hear more about Zack's decision to come out the way he did. Okay, be right back.

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Masterclass has you covered. Get unlimited access to every class, and right now, as a dinners-on-me listener, you can get 15% off when you go to masterclass.com slash dinners. That's masterclass.com slash dinners for 15% off in annual membership masterclass.com slash dinners. And we're back with more dinners on me. We were just talking about the period in his life when he decided to come out. At the time he was dating Jonathan Groff, who you might know from spring awakening on Broadway,

or Mind Hunter on Netflix. So I was dating Jonathan and I had done Star Trek, so I had sort of reached a level of exposure and I was like, I was like, I'm not sure if I'm right, I was dating Jonathan and I had done Star Trek. So I had sort of reached a level of exposure and I felt like my identity, the integration of my identity and my public life,

you know, was starting to close in. Like the lines were starting to, you know, they were about to intersect. I felt that way. I had produced my first film and started in the movie. It's called Margin Call. And thank you. And a pretty wonderful experience, Oscar nominated film. And I, is he cute? I'm sorry that I had diverted anybody's attention to anybody other than this conversation. So I was doing press for a margin call. And right around that time I had found out,

I said I have to have told this story so many times, I don't know if it's even worth telling again, but I guess it really is because it was like a, it was one of those moments where we were talking about being ready, there was like a moment in my life where it went from like contemplation of This decision to come out publicly to absolute like I had no choice in the matter And it was that I I read a story about a young kid who killed himself his name was Jamie Rotemeyer

And I and I was reading the story about him in his life and in the story It had mentioned that a few months before he took his own life, he made it and it gets better video. I mean, I get really even talking about it now. It's so, I couldn't believe it, you know, it was like that fact was included in the story about him like directly for me, right? Because I just felt like here I was living this life of opportunity and privilege and I was keeping this part of myself separate and private and it was the first time I think that I realized the power of my voice in the broader conversation socially and I felt like I had no choice in the matter anymore at that time

and I was doing press for margin call and so there was a lot of attention being paid to me at this time again and I was doing another profile for New York magazine and I remember being I was a cafe cloonie another place with Ian together and I was sitting with a journalist and I remember I made the decision the day before I Went to do this profile that I was gonna come out and I didn't tell anyone I didn't tell my publicist I didn't tell my friends I didn't ask anybody to guide me or advise me. I didn't tell Jonathan I didn't tell anyone I just made the decision that I was gonna

With much more of indict, you were more vindictive, vindictive is a wrong word. You're more, um, I'm sorry, but there's much more vindication this time around than there was before when you thought I might come out in this New York Times piece. I still don't think vindication is the right one either. Okay, what do you think? Conviction. Conviction. I think that's what you're looking for, right? There was no question in the matter for me,

to the point where, again, at that time, I think even still today, like coming out publicly, a lot of people would consult their team and talk to their publicists to make sure everybody's on board with it. And for me, it was absolutely no question in my mind that that was gonna be what I did.

And so I went to this interview, a Catholic Clooney, and I was sitting with this journalist, and he brought up Angels in America, was was talking to me about, you know, what it was like to do that play. And I just simply referred to myself as a gay man. I said the words, well, you know, as a gay man, having that experience for me was da, da, da. And I could feel him. He was like taking notes. And I felt him, like, as I said that, like, he stopped the writing, his pen, like, hovered. And I felt him sort was like taking notes and I felt him like as I said that like He stopped the writing his pen like hovered and and I felt him sort of like Did that just happen like did what I think happened just happened like and then he just you know kept going and so a few minutes later

I was like did he get it like was that enough like whatever so then I referred to myself again as a gay man in the set You know again and and that did the trick I think it was like about a week, you know, lead time. Like, we did the interview and the article was coming out like a week or so later. And so I'd finished the interview and then I went home and then I told everybody, right, I told my team and I called my public and I said, I just want you to know

what I've done. Everybody was incredibly supportive and that began the conversation in a public way. And so when the article came out, obviously, the headline was that and I drafted a statement, I think I had a website at the time, it's like when people select websites, but I drafted a statement and I-

I frequent a .net. Put it on my website, you have my blog or whatever. And that was it, you know, it certainly got picked up all over the place. Yeah, sure. But this is also the era of T.R tier night coming out on the cover of People magazine and you know Patrick Harris and I find that sort of range of ways you can come out publicly kind of fascinating and how you sit in that range. I think it's very fascinating and also very true to who

you are. It felt very authentic. Did you have an awareness of that as you were, well, obviously, you had a plan to talk about this. For me, I did it on my own terms in my own time without the advice or counsel of anyone but myself. And I think it informed the work that I've been able to do subsequently on behalf of some of these young people, especially who have struggled and have suffered as a result of not being accepted and in a lot of cases not accepting themselves.

You know, one of the first things I did after I came out publicly was contact with the Trevor Projects in Los Angeles because that was an organization that I had supported for years quietly in an honor. The work that they do is a top online. It's a, yeah, the Trevor Project is an anti-suicide hotline, essentially, and they do incredible work. I mean, it's really to me one of the most phenomenal organizations to benefit the LGBTQ plus community

and young people in particular in the community. And I had supported them for years anonymously donating money and whatever, but I could never obviously publicly support them and so I immediately reached out to them and went into their offices in Los Angeles and got a tour and met the people that ran the organization and met volunteers and by the end of that visit I had committed to go through the Lifeline training to become a Lifeline operator on the phone. So for the next year, year and a half,

I would go and do shifts at the Trevor Project and man the phones and talk to young people who are contemplating taking their own lives. That must have been incredibly impactful. Absolutely incredible. So like the level of work that I was able to do to make of an actionable difference in the lives of people was so phenomenal and it felt so gratifying

and then just being able to be a visible ally and to be somebody in the community who was able to say like, look, you know, it's possible to be true to who you are and to still succeed and to still have opportunities and to not be defined by it. No, for sure. And you have had really wonderful success after coming out. And I'm so proud of you. And how long had you been doing Star Trek when you came out? We had done the first movie, which was incredibly successful. I came out in 2011.

We made the first movie. The first movie came out in 2009. The second movie came out in 2013. So it was sort of between the two films. Do you think you would have been able to come to a meeting place with your sexuality during the first... Like a press junket for Star Trek something. So well that was the other thing that I loved about...

I didn't do it on anyone else's turf, right? I didn't do it on Paramount's dime, right? I wasn't being trotted around by a huge studio. I was doing it in conjunction with Press for a movie that only happened because I wanted it to happen, right? I didn't have to think about it, right? Again, it was like a matter of the right time and the right place and the right project. And, you know, I didn't have to worry about, like, oh, is the studio going to be pissed at me because I came out in conjunction with putting out this $150 million.

Was there a discussion with them about it? No, I didn't have a discussion about it with anybody. Did they have any thoughts about it? I mean, the only person that I had an explicit conversation with about from the Star Trek World was JJ. I was having lunch with JJ in anticipation of starting the second movie. So this was just, you know, about maybe six months after I'd come out. And I remember vividly we're having lunch at

Sony and just sort of catching up and talking about the movie. And at the end of the lunch, he said, uh, he said, oh, yeah, I just, I heard you, I heard you came out and I said, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I did, you know, and he was like, that's incredible, man. I'm so proud of you. So happy for you. I mean, just nothing but support and love and just like, again, like the people that I've been fortunate enough to work with are people who recognized that I was stepping into a fuller version of myself and a more authentic and integrated version of who I am.

And I was met with nothing but encouragement and love. So hard to eat this salad well. Take a bite, take a bite. Just one little bite. You just take a bite. I won't even talk over you. What am I having to do? I'm really hungry.

I'm really hungry. I can't see it. First of all, did you know I had a dish in first start track for Simon Pegs' role? No, I had no idea. It did not go well. It was. And I remember, you never told me that. Yeah, it was a really bad audition. First of all, I've been mistaken for Simon Pegg several times.

To the point where one time I just gave in, I was like, sure, what do you want me to sign? And I signed his name on Saturday. I was like, do we think that maybe it's strange that I've just dropped my accent with you, ma'am? Anyway, I do remember when all that was happening for you and it was so exciting and I remember you saying though, you weren't a fan of the franchise. I wasn't either. I was very unaware of it. I mean, I even star like just Supernatural, space of it. I was not my genre.

Right, right. I just wasn't my genre. What was it like for you to not only take on a role, and at that point share a role with someone who was still alive, but to enter a universe in which the fandom knows so much more about this character than you do. Yeah, I was much more of a Star Wars kid

than I was a Star Trek kid. I never really got it, right? So for me, I knew what a great opportunity it was creatively and professionally both, because it's an iconic role. Obviously, it's so popular and so beloved for a reason. And for me, it was really all about the opportunity to work with JJ. I thought, well, obviously this feels like a dream progression in my career. And I had, by happenstance, the show that I had become so known for and so kind of sought after for was a sci-fi kind of show.

So the progression was incredibly logical. And so it happened really organically. I had found out that they were making the movie, somebody that I know in my life, like, mess sent me a message and said, hey, I hear they're making a new Star Trek movie, you should play Spock. And it had never occurred to me, of course, before that moment.

And I thought, oh, wow, like, that does make kind of real sense, you know? And because I was doing so much press for heroes, journalists were asking me questions, and I was like, what else do you want to do? What else do you have in store? What's your dream role? And so I was giving an interview for some publication. I just said, oh, I hear they're making a new Star Trek movie. I'd love to play Spock.

And this started the conversation. I didn't infuse that idea into the press. And to the point where April Webster, who was casting the movie, had read an article in which I had talked about it. And when they started casting the movie, I was the first person they saw. I was the only person they saw. I remember that when I went audition for it, they told me that you know, your friend Zachary's playing this party's really,

so I mean, the way they rolled out the compliments for you, it was the only person we saw. It's perfect. You're gonna be wonderful. You should definitely do this with him. And I ended up giving the worst audition. Oh, well. But no, you were, yeah, it was just a fate're gonna be wonderful, you should definitely do this with him. And I ended up giving the worst audition. Oh, well.

But no, you were... Yeah, it was just a feta-complete. It was really weird. I remember going in in April of 2007, and the night before my audition, I met Leonard Nimoy. We were doing an event for, I think, like a TV. Tidently? Yeah, well, I mean, like, we were being presented

with an award at, like, the TV Land Awards, or something like that, you know, as a cast for heroes. And it was like the future classic award. And it was presented to us by Leonard Nimue. And I met him as we were walking off stage, you know, after the award had been, you had been cast. No, my audition was the next day. Oh, okay.

And met him the night before my audition. Oh, wow. I didn't tell him that I was auditioning. I met him the night before my audition. Oh, wow. I didn't tell him that I was auditioning. I didn't, you know, we just had a quick hello. Can you imagine? I was insane. And then the next day I went in and read for April Webster. She put me on tape.

And then the day after that, I remember leaving the country because I was going on a press junket for heroes in Europe. And so I left for that the next day. And I was gone in Europe for like five or six weeks and then I came back to New York. I planned my 30th birthday party in Los Angeles and I flew back to my, were you there at that party? I might have been. I flew back to Los Angeles on June 1st. I had my birthday party on June 2nd. On June 4th I went in and had my follow up audition with JJ, where I just met JJ. I didn't even audition, I just sat and talked with him for 35 minutes. And before

I even got home, I got the call, I got the job. And so it was two days after my 30th birthday. So that progression was like so insane. Do you remember what went through your head and your body when you learned you were going to play Spock and that? Yeah, I mean, I just, I mean, it was like, that seems like, I mean, that's a huge deal. It was, it was definitely, you know, again, I was already in this space where like, my life had changed so dramatically in the previous year. I had all, all really achieved everything I thought in my imagination, you know, like when I was in school and when I was auditioning and waiting tables and all the years that I spent kind of

dreaming about what it would mean to succeed in this business, the heroes was it, right? Like I never even thought beyond that because to be a series regular on such a popular television series and, you know, to have all these people sort of know me for my work. Like, that was what the dream was. So then on top of that, to get this opportunity to work with someone like JJ Erohms and to play a role like this in this iconic franchise and to be in this huge tent pole movie, it was just insane. It was really crazy.

Well, let's, I wanted to talk about that. And I do want to talk about that. But after a quick break, when we come back, I'll talk to Zach about his special bond with the original Spock, Leonard Nimoy, and how his mom's death changed the way he looked at his own life. Globally, humans are facing massive problems that are widely ignored by governments and the media. Like personal space invaders. I had it with these couples that sit on the same side of the booth.

Yak Mouth, stupid stick figure bumper stickers, all in the milk. You cannot milk an almond. Hi, I'm Jennifer, and I'm Angie. We call her pumps, and we're the hosts of I've had it. Pumps tell the listener where they can find us. Apple Spotify, Amazon, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's nailed it. Pumps tell the listener where they can find us. Apple Spotify, Amazon, or wherever you get your podcast. It's nailed it. See you next Tuesday. Hi, so if you have a few minutes to spare it, help us if you thought the short listener survey.

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having the responsibility of playing that role and being someone who, like you said, didn't know a ton about it. There's very few people in this industry who get to share the history of a character with someone. Well, that became it for me. Like, that was the gift that I never could have foreseen, which was Leonard Nimoy for those of you who don't know who originated the role of Spock, was involved in the movie and was involved in it from the beginning and actually had contractual consultation

on who would be cast as Spock. So I knew going into it that he supported me, he saw my addition, you know, we actually met in an elevator at Comic Con when they were announcing. So I got the job in June, but I wasn't allowed to say anything about it for two months, while they were casting the rest of the movie, but they didn't cast the rest of the movie because we didn't start shooting until November. So, but I wasn't allowed to say anything about it until they made the announcement of Comic-Con.

That was where they officially announced that I would be playing the role. And so that's why I'm at Leonard. They did this whole thing in Hull H, 5,000 people, and they brought Leonard out, and then they introduced me. And so it was like, that's why I met Leonard. They did this whole thing in Hull H, you know, 5,000 people and they brought Leonard out and then they introduced me. And so it was like, that's where it all happened. And I met Leonard in a crowded elevator. There must have been, you know, in this huge freight elevator in the in the bowels of the convention center in San Diego. And I remember the elevator goes up and the publicists or the people from the movie were like, all right, let's do this. Everybody ready? And let us just look to me and he said,

you have no idea what you're in for. Oh wow. And then he walked out of the elevator and I was like, oh, okay. And then we did this thing and, you know, and it made the announcement and he was great. He was just such an amazing man. He was so incredible.

His spirit and his presence were just so, really, really wonderful. Do you remember how old he was when you became a church? He would have been, he was definitely like, 74 maybe in 2007? Third act. Third act, for sure. And he embraced his third act with so much, he was just such an incredible man and curious mind and creative spirit all the way up to the end.

But no, he was a Renaissance man and the truest sense. And as I feel like you are as well. Well, I mean, don't put your banjo skills down. Okay, fair. Cheers. Cheers. You know, that was the beginning of, as they say, a beautiful friendship. And so for me, it was like,

I didn't really care that I didn't know a lot about the franchise because I had him. Hemathus Bawsting. And his blessing and his guidance and his accessibility, like he just was like, look, I'm not gonna tell you how to do this. You know how to do this. You know the fundamentals of the character.

I might not know the ins and outs of the canon or the whatever, but I know the essential duality of this character. I know the emotional and psychological and intellectual complexity of the character. He was just a great cheerleader and a great support. The thing that I would never have anticipated from my experiences was just how close we would be and how much he would feel.

I lost my father when I was seven. Obviously, the physical resemblance, notwithstanding, there was something very paternal about the relationship that I shared with Leonard. And I think we both felt it. And we spent many, many, many times, like, you know, we, the last decade of his life, any time we were in the same city, we were together, I would go to their house many times, you know, out to meals. They would come to my house. I mean, we were just always, any chance we got. I really took great pleasure in getting to know Leonard and I never would have imagined what a friend he would become. And when did he pass?

He died in 2015, February 27th, 2015, I think. He was 83. What a wide idea. What an incredible life and what a life well lived is the other thing. I'm so glad that the world brought you together and you had that time with him. I mean, I try and look at that friendship to like what his lens might have been. Like, you know, he's someone who had such a great success in this community and in this industry,

and then to be at that point in his life and develop this relationship with someone who's going to inherit the blueprint and then he literally lay down. Like what a gift for him to have those, you know, some of his last years. I think it's really beautiful. And to be a part of it, he was in the first two movies that we did. Yeah. Yeah, three remarkable.

It was special. I know you also lost your mom not too long ago. I did, yeah. And I'm so sorry for your loss. I knew that was a tough transition. It was a long road with my mom. She was sick for a long time. She had dementia.

And I say she didn't die of COVID, but she died because of COVID. She got COVID. She had been in an assisted living facility, toward the end of her life. And we found this incredible place that took incredible care of her. But unfortunately, you know, just one of the byproducts of the pandemic was that a lot of those places where a large population of

vulnerable people were together, you know, if the virus got into the population that it spread. And a lot of times, you you know people in those situations can't always communicate How they're feeling and so it was a bad recipe, you know and and it found its way into her sister living Community and and she got it and she actually survived it. She was in the hospital for three weeks alone I mean just horrifying, but she never really recovered and so shortly after She got out of the hospital, it just became clear that she wasn't gonna bounce back.

And it's difficult as it was. I will say it was the single most profound experience of my entire life and I got to be with her because she was not well. We decided to enroll her in a hospice program and it was a program that would come to her. So she didn't have to leave where she was familiar and where she was already living.

They would come to her. And once we enrolled her in this hospice program, that lifted the visitation restrictions that were associated with the pandemic. So I was able to go. And I paid one visit to her in the end of January. I remember it was during the inauguration of Joe Biden. And so we watched that together. And she was pretty nonverbal by that time.

She was maybe about 15%. Verbal, I would say. She didn't have a lot of words. But she knew who I was. And I spent four days with her then. And then went back to LA, my plan, then was to kind of come visit her again in March, but in mid February they called and they said, you know, there's

something going on and we don't know what it is, but we don't like it. And so I just got on the next flight and went to be with her, and then I ended up being with her for the last seven days of her life, literally just her and me. And it was pretty intense. I'm sure. It was pretty crazy and incredibly, the greatest honor of my life was it being able to hold space to my mom as she was leaving her body

and it was really special. And also to go through your entire, almost your entire existence, obviously, at age seven you lost your father, but to be a part of a family where you only have one parent, I can only imagine, because we're all getting at that age where our parents are ailing. And I see this happening with many of my friends,

all of a sudden it's there at that place, but like, okay, now one of my parents has gotten now both my parents are gone. That is an emotional transition that happens when you lose your parent, I imagine. I'm obviously still have mine with me, but I'm curious to what it feels like, or if there is something that happens to you internally when you finally say goodbye to your parents.

And you know, losing Leonard again, like a few years before that, it's got to be quite impactful. It is. I mean, I am no stranger to death. And I think losing a parent at such a young age, being confronted with existential things like death at the age of seven, mortality, and these concepts and these ideas that you're never supposed to deal with at that age, right? As traumatic as it was, it's also been an incredible gift in my life.

And my relationship to death and my relationship to the tenuousness of our existence is something that I feel has informed me as a person to a degree for which I'm incredibly grateful. And I'm not afraid of it. I'm not put off by it. I'm curious about it, not death itself. Well, yeah, death itself. But, you know, the existential, the spiritual implications of what is next and what else is out there.

And I think it's informed a lot of my sense of seeking. And for that, I'm so grateful. I want to go deeper. I want to look in the places where people don't always want to shine the light. And find myself just contemplating, like, where am I in my life? I just turned 46 last week.

Not rebirth, I guess. Thank you, Jesse. I wasn't fishing. But I'm very much in the mid point. And I have no parents, I have no children, I have no partner at the moment. Great dogs have wonderful dogs, the best dogs on the planet. But, you know, I think there's been a part of me that sort of wrestled with, like, well,

wait a minute, you know, like, should I be somewhere else in my life? If I filter it through the lens of conventional expectations, I am on an untraditional path, right? I mean, I'm in a different spot than a lot of my friends, and I think there have been times where I've questions whether or not I should be here, or why am I here, or, you? Or is there something defective about my experience that I don't have these hallmarks of a traditional life that many people measure success by? But lately, and this incredible thing has happened

in the time since I lost my mom, which is, my perspective has shifted entirely to recognize what a gift my life is is and how incredibly lucky I am to have the autonomy that I have to be able to do the work on myself and to dig more deeply because I don't have to worry about getting my kids up much as I know, children bring joy to the lives of others, and I know you have two beautiful kids, and so many of my friends do, and I love, you know, living vicariously through them, and spending time with their kids, and then- It's awesome. Nothing makes me happier than when I'm like,

bye guys, have a good day. Yeah, I totally get it. And I just get to live this life. I've just recognized the abundance of my life so fully lately, and I do think losing my mom was a huge part of that, right? Because it was like, no matter what, my mom was always a tether. My mom was always a tether emotionally.

My mom in the later years in her life was a tether financially. I was responsible for her. And I always knew I would be from a very young age. I saw the writing on the wall, because my mom never remarried, never dated again after my dad. And she channeled a lot of energy into me that would generally be reserved for a spouse.

And that was part of the complexity of our relationship, the reliance on me emotionally, which came from an unexamined narcissistic place. And I don't falter for that, I don't blame her for that, but my mother was a narcissistic person. I mean, she definitely suffered from narcissistic personality disorder. I could see it clearly even though she never could. But I don't begrudger that. I don't, you know, she did the best she could with the skills she had and the resources she had.

And I'm grateful to my mom. And I love my mom really fully now. But that something did happen in losing her, which was this sense of freedom, this sense of liberation, this sense of, I was a good son, I did everything that ever could have been expected of me and more. And now I get to live this life for myself. So I feel the way I see it now is that it's this kind of,

I'm doing this work to create the life into which I am inviting the person that I'll get to share it with. And when that person shows up, the work will always be happening, but a lot of the work will have been done. And I get to do that now. I get to go wherever I want, whenever I want, I can travel. I can, yeah. Now you're just rubbing it out. Sorry honey. Sorry honey. But yeah, you know, I just, I feel really like,

okay, this is exciting. You can do theater whenever you want. I can do theater. I can come home whenever I want to. Right. No, I mean, you know, look, I know there's value and all experiences and I do look at, you know, you and Justin and, you know, I love

the life you've built for yourself. And I know your kids are a huge part of that. And of course, you know, I'm not saying I'll never have them. But I don't know, man, it's, I think the part of me that thought I needed to have them or that I really wanted them has kind of taken a bit of a secondary position for the moment. And yeah. I listen, Al Pacino, I just read, is having his, I'm not a kid. And he's in his 80s.

Is that true? Yes. That's right. So you know what, you got time, kid? Well, it is never too late. It is never too late. I mean, it would have to be, it would have to be in deep partnership with somebody.

Of course. I don't see you as the type of person who is gonna just like decide to go on this journey by myself. Well, you never know. You never know. I think I'd be a good dad. You'd be a great guy. I think I would be. And so who knows? But for right now, I'm really enjoying and celebrating my freedom. And in a way that really makes me feel empowered. So I'm not just freedom from children, but right now just read them in general. Yeah, we'll see. Did you have enough to eat? I did. I ate the chicken.

I picked it to salad. It's hard to eat until I know I get it. I mean, I love the format of this podcast, but like, how do we do it? You're doing it right now. I did do it. There we go. Wherever you listen to your podcast. Thanks for having dinner with me.

My God, thank you for having me with me. My God, thank you so much. I was saying, you know, dinner's on me, so that's the name of the podcast we're having dinner. Can I leave the chat? No, I got it all. You do? Yeah. Thank you for having me. Next time on Dinner's On Me, actress and podcaster, Busy Phillips. We'll get into how her move to New York changed her life and her marriage, her relationship

with Tina Fey, and why since the overruling of Roe v Wade, it's been so important to her to be an advocate for reproductive rights. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinner's On Me Plus. As a subscriber, you not only get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen to them completely ad-free. Just click Tri-Free at the top of the Dinner's On Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today.

Dinner's On Me is a production of neon hum media, Sony Music Entertainment Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by Yours Truly. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Chloe Chobal is our associate producer, Sam Bear, engineered this episode. Hans Dail Shee composed our theme music.

Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Alexis Martinez and Justin McKeeta. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson, join me next week.