Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - ZACHARY QUINTO — on being a leading man in “Brilliant Minds”

Episode Date: November 5, 2024

Actor Zachary Quinto comes back to the show for another helping. Over Greek salad, Quinto tells us about this huge moment in his career, why he avoids reading reviews at all costs, and how he's taking care of himself during this polarizing political moment. This episode was recorded at Cookbook Market & Cafe in Larchmont Village, CA. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Visit milk.org to learn more. Hi, it's Jesse. Today on the show, you know him as Skyler in Heroes and Spock in the Star Trek films, and now the leading role of Dr. Oliver Wolf in the new NBC medical drama, Brilliant Minds, it's Zachary Quinto. I've managed to completely steer clear of any,

I haven't read one review of the show, I haven't, I told everybody that works with me, like, don't send me ratings, numbers, I don't care, I don't wanna know. I'll never read reviews again. This is Dinners on Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Okay. I feel like I've hit a major milestone on

this podcast because we have our first repeat guest on today's episode. Not only that, but he happens to be one of my best friends. So it was actually pretty easy to convince him to come back. I mean, ever since my friend Zachary Quinto told me about his starring role in the new NBC medical drama, Brilliant Minds, I knew I wanted to have him on to return for another meal. Now, Zach's built an incredible resume over the past 15 years, but I don't know, there's

no denying that he's having quite a moment right now. And Brilliant Minds definitely feels like a major turning point in his career. Now last time Zach was on Dinners on Me, we dined in his home turf in New York City. But knowing he was going to be doing press in Los Angeles for his new show, I wanted to take the opportunity to take him out for a meal on the West Coast, closer to my home. Hi! Hi!

These are real people. These are real people. on the West Coast, closer to my home. Hi. Hi. These are real people. These are real people. I brought Zachary Quinto to Cookbook Cafe on Larchmont. Now, if you've walked around Echo Park or Highland Park, you know Cookbook as quite possibly the cutest little market on the planet. It's gorgeously displayed with fruits and vegetables and delicious prepared sandwiches on focaccia

or colorful seasonal salads. Plus all the shelves in the store are lined with tend fish and natural wine, dried beans, and teas and coffees. The Cafe Enlargement is their only restaurant and it's inside this adorable little 1920s bungalow. I thought it would be the perfect place to have a cozy meal with my friend, Zach.

Well, last time we did this, we were... In New York. We were in New York, but also I think... I'm your first repeat guest. You are our first repeat guest. That is very exciting, because last time I gave you shit for my last time. No, you're allowed to.

You were like really hounding me, because I hadn't asked you to do it yet. I gave you shit because you didn't ask me to be on the show, and now I'm the first you to do it yet. I gave you shit because you didn't ask me to be on the show and now I'm the first person to come back twice. Aren't you proud of yourself? You have so many famous friends and I'm the first one that's back twice. That's like the best.

There's a reason. We love you. I feel like I know I saw you at the night before the Emmys party, but kind of the last time we spent significant time together was at the DNC. What was your take on that? It's so interesting because when I was at the DNC, my take on it was that I was not only drinking the Kool-Aid, but I was swimming in the punch bowl.

It was so incredible. I felt so fired up and charged up and in the way that I haven't felt since Obama, since 2008. However, things have really shifted for me since the DNC and now, which is like at the DNC, I was like, yes, like, Kamala, Democrats, like, you know, and then I watched the debate and everything started to unravel for me

because I was so flabbergasted, like that that was the level of discourse, was shocking to me. And I shouldn't be surprised. I mean, the writing's been on the wall for a long time. However, I just felt like something clicked into place for me when I watched that debate, and I realized that we're not really talking

about politics anymore, right? Now, obviously, that said, we're not really talking about politics anymore, right? Now obviously that said, we're not radically gonna dismantle the democratic capitalist political system. However, it must evolve. Is it going to evolve in the hands of an administration that is completely and rigidly attached to and fixated on the constructs of the past which no longer serve us and will not only not allow us to move forward, but will actually hasten us to a kind of

darkness and destruction that I think we can't quite comprehend. No, I think that's all barely well said. I don't know. I mean look, I feel like How are we going to evolve? Are we just going to, you know, completely go off rails like we already have been in some ways. It's tricky, because I mean, when you're talking

about a divided nation, you know, which is incredibly divided, it's just all the infighting and the cross talking and it's really tricky. It's really tricky. And that's all the infighting and the cross talking and it's really tricky, it's really tricky. And that's all the time we have time for today. So, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye. Hi. Hello, how are you guys today?

Good. Good, how are you? Hello, are you guys thirsty, hungry? What can I grab for you guys? I want something effervescent. Yes. Ooh, okay. Wait, what are you, this is kombucha and things? Yes, the fermented is really good. We have a nice, you know, watermelon. I, what are you, this is kombucha and things? Yes, the fermented is really good. We have a, I'll try that.

I've had that one. I'm gonna have a Gia. Gia or Gia? A Gia. Gia, I want the one that's not spicy. I think we have lime and salt. That tastes like spray. That's great.

Yeah? Yeah. I'll be right back. Can I ask, because it does seem overwhelming, and I think you do such a great job of recognizing how you need to take care of yourself. I always look to you as like, I just think you take care of yourself in really mindful ways.

What do you do when you're feeling like this? The thing that's changed my life more than anything else is meditation. I meditate, I've been meditating every day twice a day for six years now. And that has absolutely revolutionized my experience of life completely. I'm an entirely different person sitting here with you now than I was six years ago. And my perspective on all of this stuff is informed by that. For me, it really is about consciousness.

It really is about evolving beyond individuality, and evolving beyond personal ego, evolving beyond materialism. It really is about seeing that there is a connectivity between everyone and everything in the universe and that that connectivity is the thing that will drive us forward toward the light. We are out of the key.

Oh. But I have to. We're gonna have to have a kombucha. So I have the balloon for you. Yes, thank you very much. Okay. Here you go. This is really classic. This is the dry hop apple.

Oh, I'll try that one. And then this one's watermelon type. I don't even like kombucha, but I'm going for it today. You've decided what you want. Hmm, we only got just some. Well, okay, I am definitely gonna do the cheese toastie, the Alpine cheese blend, the leeks, red onion. Wow. Yeah, so what's cool about Cookbook is everything we have in store, It's toasty, the alpine cheese blend, the leeks, red onion.

Yeah, so what's cool about Cookbook is everything we have in store we do get from the farmers market and everything that's on our menu can find it in stores so you can make it at home. Wow, that's cool, that's why it is called Cookbook. Yeah. It's great. Love that, is the Greek salad,

it's like a traditional Greek salad where it doesn't have- I knew you were gonna get a Greek salad. It doesn't have greens, it's just like the other things, right? I'll have some if you want some. Yeah, let's get a Greek salad for sure. I took, thank you so much. Thank you. I took our mutual dear friend Matthew Bomer

to breakfast this morning for his birthday. Today's his birthday. Aw, today's his birthday. So we went to breakfast, so I've already eaten. Yeah, I'm so happy we're doing this again because I feel like last time, I feel like the last time we sat down, you knew about Brilliant Minds.

Or maybe it was like early. When was it that I sat down with you last time? I'm trying to think. It was a year ago. It was about a year ago. Right, so the last- So you shot the pilot before. Right, I had shot the pilot when we sat down,

but we hadn't yet heard whether or not the show was gonna get picked up. Yeah, yeah. That's when we sat down last time. And so since then, strikes happened, the show got picked up right before the end of the strikes. And then, uh, I basically, uh, went to LA for some months just to hang out and then went to Toronto for six months and did the first season of the show. I mean, first of all, like, no one was working during that time because of, you know, people were still recovering

from COVID and then the strikes happened. And like, just to have a job with like a series order totally must've been such a gift. Also the ways in which the strikes actually benefited us is kind of a little bit of a miracle. In what ways? Well, I mean, we were originally gonna be a mid-season show. So we were originally meant to start airing in January.

And because of the strikes, that all got pushed. Also because of the strikes, NBC only picked up, we were the only new one-hour drama that they picked up. So we then became a fall show, and then we were the only new one hour drama that they picked up. So we then became a fall show, and then we were the only show that they had. So they have channeled so much of their energy and attention and their resources into promoting the show. I don't know what it's like in New York,

but your face is everywhere. It's a lot of places, I won't lie. I definitely see myself and am thrown by it sometimes, but I feel so grateful. It's been a really wonderful experience. So it's now out in the world, which is great. I've managed to completely steer clear of any, I haven't read one review of the show,

I haven't, I told everybody that works with me, like don't send me ratings, numbers, I don't care, I don't care, I don't want to know. Just let me have the experience. Is this the first time you've done something on TV where you've kind of stayed out of that? Totally.

That's so healthy. And it has been so liberating. I've had such a great time. All the press that I'm doing is so fun because I just get to go and share my genuine experience of what the show is to me and how it was to make it. Do you think it's easier to stay out of that whole circus of ratings and reviews when you're super proud of something?

Because I know how proud you are of it. I am proud of it. And you should be. It's great. Thanks. I don't know. I'll never read reviews again. Really?

Never. Absolutely not. I always say that and then I end up doing it. The first time I ever did it, I came into a production that already existed. They had done it at the Young Vic and then they transferred it to the West End and the actor who played the role that I did

wasn't able to move with it. So they asked me to come and do it. And I'd always wanted to do a play in London. It was a great play. I thought this is perfect. But I knew that it had a previous life. So I didn't read any of the reviews of the Young Vic production when I went and is perfect. But I knew that it had a previous life, so I didn't read any of the reviews of the Young Vic production when I went and did it. And then I didn't read any reviews of our production.

And it was so liberating and freeing, and I just had such a wonderful experience of doing that play that I thought, wait, this is actually easier than I thought it was. And my experience is so much more enjoyable than it's ever been before. And so... You're doing it kind of for yourself,

also for the joy of the piece itself, and not for... Totally. And without, you know, look, my feeling about reviews has always been this. The best review you could ever get is always going to be reductive. Any review is reductive.

First of all, it's one person's opinion, and second of all, it reduces the experience down to, if you're lucky, a paragraph. And so why would I, who have spent all this time and channeled all this energy and creative resource into creating an experience for myself and for an audience, allow the reductive perspective of what that job is, define any aspect of my relationship to it. I've literally never thought about it that way,

that makes a lot of sense. It took me 25 years to come to that, but finally I did, and you know, I also always believed, if you believe the good ones, you gotta believe the bad ones. 100%. And so I just decided like, why even read them?

Yeah, yeah. You ever been review bombed? Because that's happened to me. What's that mean? When somebody like, when someone's like, I do not agree with what the New York Magazine said. They were idiots.

And you're like, what are they saying? Yeah, no, I haven't had that. Somebody did say, like, I have a friend who texted me and said, sweetheart, like, I'm so excited for your show tonight, I can't wait to watch it on the day that it premiered. Like, we're here, we're tuning in tonight, can't wait.

Then never heard from them again. That really bought me. So I was like, really, okay. That's warfare. And then, a couple of weeks later, I got another text from this person and they were like, sweetheart, the New York Times called you dashing.

So true. I was like, oh. Okay, and I actually started to write back and say I don't really care what the New York Times thinks. What does my friend of 20 years, who watched the show, think? I didn't send that text ultimately, because I didn't think it was necessary,

but I was like, okay, well, you know So that was a kind of review bomb, but who cares? Hi Thank you Thank you Thank you, this was quite a delicious for mench kombucha Bloom is good. Very nice Thank you.

Thanks so much. Your character's Dr. Oliver Wolf, who's a brilliant neuro- Neurologist. Neurologist, neurologist, who also suffers from, is it good? Delicious. Yeah, plate, share plates.

He suffers from, what is it called, a face- Prospagnosia. Say it good? Delicious. Yeah, plate, share plates. He suffers from, what is it called, a face. Proso-pagnosia. Say it again? Proso-pagnosia, thank you. Can I get another four minutes? Just some regular water. Yeah, red water's great. Do I get half of that or just a bite?

You can have the whole, have this. And you get half of this. Yeah, yeah. Okay, but it's basically facial blindness. He can't recognize people. But this character that you're playing is based on a real... A real life person named Dr. Oliver Sacks.

Right. Who was a world renowned neurologist and lived and worked in the mid 20th century and was also a very prolific author. He wrote dozens and dozens of books about his patients. He wrote case studies about his patients. One of the things I didn't really ever think about until I did this show was that

before medicine became exclusively diagnostic the way it is now, technology and medicine have evolved so much in the last 100 years, 150 years, that we have all these machines and all these incredibly finely tuned instruments. So all we care about now is what's wrong with us and how do we fix it.

But before the advent of technology, the only way that doctors could learn about their patients was by writing about them. So doctors actually wrote these very in-depth case studies. He- God damn it, I spoke to him on the phone. Oh no. Can't take him anywhere without his diaper.

Ha ha ha. Yeah, but continue. Yeah, so case studies were the ways that doctors learned and they would write and they would share their writings with people and then that art form really died. So there was a humanity to medicine that existed in these writings that Oliver Sacks was very interested in as a young doctor.

He had many inspirations and mentors that he looked up to who undertook this practice, and he himself decided to resurrect it. So case studies became a huge part of his medical practice, and he ended up writing dozens of books. The most famous one probably is called The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat, but he also wrote a book called Awakenings, which was the inspiration for the movie

with Robin Williams and Robert De Niro directed by Penny Marshall. I love all that stuff, and it was so incredible to... What a gift also to be playing someone who has so much writing available. Absolutely. Oh my god, hi! Look at that! Come here. Vanessa Bear. Mm-hmm. Now for a quick break, because former SNL cast, Vanessa Bear. Now for a quick break, because former SNL cast member Vanessa Bear

just came to the table and we need to say hi really quick. But don't go away. When we come back, Zach tells me more about the real life doctor his Brilliant Minds character is inspired by and the significance of being an openly gay actor on a medical drama today. Okay, be right back. I don't know about you, but every year fall rolls around

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Not just me like poinsettias or holiday wreaths. You can really get a lot done in one visit people Oh wait, and as I'm recording this I see that Whole Foods actually caters the whole spread. Okay. Okay gosh Okay, maybe I'll just do that. All right. I gotta go. It looks like I need to put in my order by November 26th. Get your holiday party started at Whole Foods Market. ["Sex and the Beast"] And we're back with more Dinners on Me. Where do we leave off? Can you tell me about Dr. Sacks?

The best part about it is that I'm not playing him. I'm playing a fictionalized version of him. So I got all of the benefit of the source material and the writing and the access to his life, but I didn't have to bring any of the potentially restrictive aspects of playing a real life person into the show. I got to create a fictional character

who exists in the modern world. You know, our show's set today. And I play, it's almost like an imagining of what it would be like if Oliver Sacks was born, you know, a generation later, yeah. It's so well done, it has such a beautiful... You haven't watched it. I've seen all three that are available to me.

Oh no, I'm kidding. Joanna's actually watched six. Really? Because we got two of them advance. Do you think? Oh cool, thanks. Okay, nice. It's great and it has a very,

it's well shot, it's a beautiful look at. Yeah, it's different than a traditional network medical drama. You guys are really, you work so well together. It's a great group. I love everybody. What I also love about it is you're gay in this series. And it's touched upon so lightly.

I've watched three episodes. That's probably almost two hours and 15 minutes, two and a half hours of television. And I think any reference to your sexuality has been maybe less than 30 seconds in all those episodes. But it's definitely something that colors your character and obviously that little bit of information colors your relationships as well.

It's some of the other people that you work with. And I just, there was something so refreshing about how it was revealed and then left alone. Almost to the point where like, if you missed it, you missed it and it will come up again later when it's needed. Right. But.

I will say, you know, I am the first openly gay actor or character on a prime time network medical drama. And so that is significant in a way, but I think that the biggest significance of it is that it's not significant in the context of the show. It becomes significant. Obviously his identity and his relationship to his sexuality and his identity

become a huge part of who he is, and all of the aspects of the character that I play are taken directly from the life of Oliver Sacks. Oliver Sacks had a very complicated relationship with his sexuality and with his mother. One interesting fact about Oliver Sacks is that he was celibate for 35 years. Oh wow.

And that was something that I really couldn't understand. I just couldn't wrap my. I knew you couldn't. My. that I really couldn't understand. I just couldn't wrap my. I knew you couldn't. My, my. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. That is why I really, I couldn't wrap my head around why somebody would make a decision like that in their life

to divest themselves of such an essential part of their authentic self. Right. And the other thing that occurred to me was that he lived in a time when, had he come out, his entire identity would have been defined by that one aspect of him. And so he made a choice to sublimate that part of himself for 35 years in order to make the contributions to the field of neurology that he himself was specifically designed

to make. And then in his later life, he ended up coming out fully and meeting someone he had a partner for the last decade or so of his life. There's something heartbreaking about that. It is very heartbreaking, incredibly heartbreaking. And all the more significant that we live in a time when not only can I play an openly gay character, but I can be an openly gay actor.

And I think, you're gay, right? I'm experimenting. I think now is the time. I mean, people have been talking about it for a long time. But you know, I think we are so lucky now to live in a time when we're able to tell these stories and be who we are,

and that shows the progress we've made. So it's a real special opportunity for me to occupy this space and to have the space that I'm occupying be so significant because of its insignificance. It's also, I mean, we've talked about it privately so many times, but the last time you were on this podcast, we talked about your resistance to coming out

even at the beginning of your career. So I'm sure that's something you can relate to in those terms as well. But part of what made me come out publicly, as we talked about, is that I couldn't hold the, I couldn't hold the truth for myself anymore when I acknowledged and recognized that expressing that truth, sharing that truth could help other people.

And that wasn't really a position that Oliver Sacks was fortunate enough to find himself in in his career. So I recognize that that's a real gift of our collective evolution. Now, I mean, I find that you are like a lot of your characters, specifically all the ones you played on American Horror Story but This one definitely feels like an extension of you. Uh-huh. I mean, do you feel like you have Is it more accessible for you to play this guy? Is it feel like more close to home?

Very close to home. Uh-huh. I love it for that actually a doctor requires a neutrality and a doctor requires the capacity to hold space for a lot of different experiences and that's something that I've been working on in my own life and so it's really nice to apply that to a character. You know, he's got to hold space for people who are going through a lot of big things and he can't get swept up in it.

So it's been really nice, and it parallels my own journey of the experience of filming the show. I have to hold space for people as the lead of the show and number one on the call sheet. I have to hold space for everybody to have their experience and I can't get reactive. Yeah, that's true. I mean, also, I just watched an episode where you're sort of bombarded at home with a group of people and- The biker gang?

Yeah, the biker gang. Comes into the house, right. Having that ability to sort of adapt to situations immediately and be of service. Yeah. And that looks a certain way. You know? Also, can I ask you, I hope this doesn't fuck you up though.

What? Your glasses on the show. Yeah. Do you know, you wear them like a doctor would wear them. Why? They're like a little crooked. And they sit like, you just slapped them on really quick to like do something. Yeah.

Like they're not like you place them on your face. Right. No, I just put them on and take them off a lot. I noticed this thing that I do on the show when I watched it that I, when I take them off, I like turn my head to like take them off. Uh huh. Like that. It's very funny.

Anyway, I, I, I, well, it's funny that you mentioned that because actually if you've only seen the first few episodes, I changed the glasses. I got a new pair of glasses after the third episode, I think, because they were really flimsy. They were cool, but the, what are these called? The arms, the bands, the hooks? The part that goes back over your ears were very,

so they weren't reliable to pull out of a pocket and put it on my face. So that's probably why you noticed that. But yeah, I think that there are a lot of things about Wolf, this is I think probably a little bit different than me personally, but there are a lot of things about Wolf that require his attention right away. And he just goes where he needs to go and everything else will follow essentially.

Well he seems to work on instinct and then deal with consequences later. Right, absolutely. I mean in the fourth episode of the show, and this was true of Oliver Sacks, the story is that a woman comes in in a wedding dress covered in blood and she's completely out of it

and nobody knows what happened and it's not her blood so they find in her belongings they go through a purse and they find drugs and so it's clear that she's taken some drugs and that that's led to whatever happened and so in order to understand what she's gone through, my character takes the drugs. And that was true of Oliver Sacks. He was a well, well documented psycho-knot. He took a lot of psychedelics in his life

to better understand the human mind and to better understand what his patients were going through. And so he is somebody who is very iconoclastic, rebellious, and goes against the grain as long as it's in service of his patients. So that is true of Oliver Sacks and true of my character as well. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, we get into his sexual tension with Dr. Nichols on Brilliant Minds,

and he tells me about his full circle moment with Broadway icon When we come back, we get into his sexual tension with Dr. Nichols on Brilliant Minds, and he tells me about his full circle moment with Broadway icon and his on-screen mom Donna Murphy. Okay, be right back. You know when you discover a new Binge-worthy show or song that you just want to bump on repeat, you love it so much that you just have to share it with all of your friends so that they can experience just how awesome it is. So that's kind of what it feels like when you discover that Mint Mobile offers premium wireless for $15 a month when you purchase a three-month plan.

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time. Joanne is a few episodes ahead of me. But around episode seven, where, so there is another doctor in the hospital who's sort of in the early episodes, kind of your arch nemesis. But there's a very will they, won't they, very Jack and Diane sort of thing about them. Sam and Diane.

Very Sam and Diane thing about them. Jack and combining sitcoms. What, first of all, this is, the guy who plays this neuro. Teddy Sears. He's a neurosurgeon and I'm a neurologist. Right. And Teddy is his name.

He and you worked together on an American Horror Story. Yeah, we played lovers on the first, ghost lovers on the first season of American Horror Story. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was great to be reunited with Teddy. I love him. Sure, yeah. Great guy. Can you tease anything with that?

Well, look, I can say this, right? Oftentimes the people that we encounter who trigger us the most, trigger us for a reason. And I think one of the aspects of Wolf's journey is recognizing that trigger and digging a little more deeply underneath it to see what it really means. And also in the show, not for nothing, but one of the primary dynamics is between Wolf

and his mother, played by Donna Murphy. Two time Tony Award winner., played by Donna Murphy. Two time Tony Award winner. Played by Donna Murphy. Who, they have a very complicated relationship. She's his boss at the hospital, is the reason he didn't want to take the job of Bronx General in the first place.

And then this relationship that he has with Dr. Josh Nichols is something that we'll explore through the season for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Wait, I saw, I don't know if it was on Donna Murphy's Instagram or your Instagram, a photo of the two of you

and what looks like a production of Oliver. It was. This must have been in Pittsburgh. 1992 in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, 33 years ago. She was obviously playing Nancy. She was obviously playing Nancy. And who were you? I was playing Charlie Bates.

You did all of her when I was a kid. You did? I was just a workhouse boy. I was basically a workhouse boy. I had a couple more lines than the other workhouse boys, but not as many lines or songs as- I remember Charlie, yeah. The Artful Dodger.

But yeah, I played Charlie Bates and she played Nancy. But I remember Donna being so infinitely connected to what she was singing and what she was doing and she was so, I just, I loved her even then, and I didn't really know why. And I think now all these years later, it's because of her commitment and because of her investment in,

and I was just starting out as a kid, you know? But I recognized it in her and I would literally stand off stage and watch her sing that number from the wings. And I was able to tell her that. And now all these years later to be in this very fulfilling and complicated relationship with her as an actor, you know, it's really... I love when things like that happen. Just really shows the kind of grand design, doesn't it? Right? Like it really shows that if you pay attention

to the path you're on, all these little miracles reveal themselves in retrospect. The fact that I met Leonard Neymore the night before my Star Trek audition, and then became such dear friends with him and his wife, and now his wife is one of the guest stars on episode eight of our show. Wow, that's incredible.

I called Susan, who hasn't acted in 35 years years and I said, Susan, this part is literally, there's no one else who can play it. Are you interested in acting again? And I knew she would say yes. I didn't know how enthusiastically she'd say yes, but I brought her up to the show and she did an amazing job. So those kinds of full circle moments. The other one for me is, you know, Heroes was the job that changed my career, right?

On NBC, 15 years ago, and it's the job that changed my life, and sort of come back to NBC all these years later. The catalyst of Heroes for anybody who didn't watch it was that in the pilot, there's a solar eclipse, and the solar eclipse somehow awakens all of these powers in people all around the world who didn't know that they were special and then one day they wake up and this eclipse happens and then they start exhibiting all these powers and that's the catalyst for the whole series.

We started filming Brilliant Minds on April 8th, the day of the solar eclipse. So this full circle of combat... When I was in church decay. Were you? Yeah. See? Yeah. I mean, that's K. Were you? Yeah. See? Yeah. I mean, that's right. Woo, goosebumps.

Totally. That's so insane. Yeah, that's really crazy. All that kind of stuff is really magical to me and those moments of magic have become much clearer for me lately. Yeah. And that is also, I think, really attributable

to my meditation practice. Just being more available to the magic, because the magic is all around us and within us. And you're probably also just more open to seeing it when it happens. Yeah, exactly. You're more attuned to it,

because you're not so focused on the stress, the things that, the anxiety, the frustrations, so yeah, anyway. Donna and the show and all of it, so it's all full circle. Not to repeat the things we, the, so yeah, anyway. Donna and the show and all of it, so it's all full circle. Not to repeat things we talked about, but I'm sort of interested in this. You know, we talked a lot about your mom

in the last episode, but do you think that this show and these conversations that you're having around this character have made you look at the way we handle healthcare and mental illness in a different way? Absolutely. The humanity is something that I feel so driven to find ways to support and amplify.

How do we make mental health care, for example, more accessible to everybody? You know, I've benefited, I know you've benefited from therapy. I've been in therapy for over 25 years. And it's absolutely changed my life and helped me understand and integrate parts of myself that I might never have done

if I had not been in that process. I think that's something that our show explores. I always say if people see themselves in our stories, if they see what they're going through, or their loved ones are going through, and they feel seen and represented, then we're doing our job. And that's a good thing to be a part of.

I've played so many dark twisted fucked up people And it's so nice to be at a place in my my journey as an actor where I'm playing a role That is just coming from a place of compassion and generosity a spirit, and I think it's actually reflective of my own journey and and you know I've really done the work, I've done deep and I've never taken my foot off the gas in terms of knowing myself more and loving myself more and I think that is, not to get cheesy about it, but I think that there's no mistake

that I'm now a part of a story that is putting light out into the world and putting a message of optimism and hope out into the world because that's where my own evolution has brought me. And not to say that I was, you know, as twisted or, you know, as psychopathic as some of the characters that I've played, but that I certainly have gone

through my own journey through the Dark Knight of the Soul. You know? I certainly have, definitely, through my own journey through the dark night of the soul. I certainly have, definitely, in many different ways, struggled with addiction, struggled with depression, struggled with challenges within myself, but I never stopped doing the work. And now it's led me to, I can honestly say, I've never been more fulfilled in my life. I've never been happier, I've never been more at ease,

I've never been more in love with life, I've never been more grateful, I've never been happier. That makes me so happy. Yeah. I know, we were talking on the phone about a week ago and you were saying how you were kind of sort of recuriating your house,

which I think is also a sign that you're in this sort of renaissance of yourself. I know that you've got this apartment that you're in now when you were in a relationship. That relationship has been done for a very long time. I know you've moved on in so many ways, spiritually, emotionally. Talk to me a little bit about advice on how to

find comfort in that evolution, because I always find for myself change is scary even when I sometimes know that it's for the best for myself. Sometimes change is scariest when you know it's the best for yourself. That's when it's the scariest, to leave what's comfortable. Yeah, I did. I decided to stay in that space

after that relationship ended. And I know you had complicated feelings around that. I did. I decided to stay in that space after that relationship ended and And I know you had complicated feelings around I did originally and fucking great apartment It was it there were months after the after it all went down where I was like, why did I stay? because now I'm just looking everywhere and being reminded of this time that we shared here, but But that's okay because it was part of the story. And the story was beautiful. We had a beautiful story until it wasn't beautiful. And so what I did was I started to reconnect with the space

and change it in ways that made it just more mine. But what I did recently, so I was just away for about a year, in the last year, I've lived in my apartment for four weeks. Because I was in LA for five months, and then I was in Toronto for six. And so, I got back home after all this time away, I hadn't lived in my house, and it's so interesting because it was in the two weeks leading up

to the premiere of the show, so I would just be unpacking boxes and taking things out of every closet, every drawer, every shelf. I took all of my books and went through them and got rid of so much stuff and pared down and pared down and pared down. And then it was where all of my attention was going as I was also getting ready to launch the show.

And so it took me about 10 days. And when I tell you that it's the biggest level up that I've ever experienced in my life that you know you'll come to my apartment and you'll be like it doesn't really look that different yeah but to me is an entirely different place it's the most current representation of me that has ever been and I am so grateful that I did it yeah you're gonna be there yeah exactly I'll be there for five months. You're starting a rehearsal for your play, when?

I start in a week. Okay, so this play is at second stage. Second stage, where you did take me out. Same theater, Helen Hayes Theater on Broadway, the second stage space on Broadway. It's a new play called Cult of Love, written by Leslie Headland, directed by Tripp Coleman. Love Tripp.

Love Tripp Coleman, known Tripp for 25 years, 23 years, and we've never worked together. Oh really? It's like nothing else I've ever on this trip, Colman, known trip for 25 years, 23 years, and we've never worked together. Oh really? It's like nothing else I've ever done before and I'm really excited to dive in. Yeah. Yeah. You'll come? I'm busy that day. Really?

No, of course I'm gonna come. Wait, is this your first time doing an original play on Broadway? It is, yeah. Most of my career as an actor on stage has been American classics. Glass of Majer-y, Angels in America, Boys in the Band, Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf. I've done a lot of really great American classics and I've done one new play off Broadway, but

this is my first new play on Broadway, yeah. It's really exciting to be able to lay the groundwork and blueprint for a character. With amazing people around me, amazing actors. Shailene Woodley. Love her. Mayor Winningham. Love her. David Arashi.

Rebecca Henderson, Molly Bernard, Roberta Calendres, Christopher Lowell, Chris Sears, Barbie Ferreira. It's a really- Too many people are gonna have to share dressing rooms. Oof, really? Ooh, yeah. I don't think so, babe.

That's not good. All right. We'll see, maybe. I'd be happy to share dressing rooms, actually. I'm really excited about that. I'm excited, too. It'll be fun. Yeah, back where you belong in the boards.

I'd love to go back to the theater. I am so happy I caught you while you were in town. Thanks for having me back. You've done both coasts of Dinners On Me. I've done both coasts three times. You're our first repeat guest. Yeah, that's a real honor. You're like the Amy Sedaris for Letterman.

I'll take care of it. Anytime you need someone. I'll take care of it. No, we're so happy you came. Did you want anything from the store here? No. Are you gonna buy anything? I'm good.

I mean, Dinner's On Me, but I'll buy you some spice too. It's a moment. This episode of Dinnerners on Me was recorded at Cookbook Cafe in Larchmont Village, California. Next week on Dinners on Me, you know her as Sally Draper from AMC's Mad Men and Sabrina Spellman from the Netflix series Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, but she has a new slew of projects coming out,

including the holiday film Red One alongside Dwayne the Rock Johnson and Thanksgiving rom-com sweethearts It's Kiernan Shipka. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners on Me Plus. As a subscriber not only do you get access to new episodes one week early You'll also be able to listen completely ad-free. Just click Try Free at the top of the Dinners On Me show page on Apple Podcasts to search your free trial today. Dinners On Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions.

It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Angela Vang. Sam Baer engineered this episode. Hans-Dyl She composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tamika Balanz-Kolassani and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.