DISGRACELAND - Bonus Episode: Charles Manson the Music Man

Episode Date: November 17, 2022

Charles Manson the Music Man, the tale of Trent Reznor's time in the Cielo Drive murder house, and Jake's latest takes on All Quiet on the Western Front, White Lotus, and your listener messages. Leave your own message at 617-906-6638 and join the After Party! This episode contains themes that may be disturbing to some listeners, including domestic violence and graphic descriptions of violence and sexual assault.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is exactly right. Double Elvis. Hey, Discos, need a little more disgrace land in your life? Just a touch to get you through? Yeah, me too. This is the podcast that comes after the podcast. Welcome to Disgraceland, the after party. Welcome to the second installment of the new and improved,

same as before, but slightly more awesome, disgraceland after party. On this episode, we're talking about the past episode of Disgraceland on Charles Manson. Yes, that Charles Manson. Why? Because, yeah, he was a musician, in addition to being a murderer. And we're also discussing Trent Resner, Mama Cass Elliott, Richard Ramirez, Frank Costello, all quiet on the Western Front, more White Lotus Season 2, and a whole lot of rosy to round us out.

All right, before we get to listen to calls, text, and emails, let's get into it. So, Charles Manson, short dude, had a sex cult back in the 60s, was a murderous hippie, freaked America out. That dude, you know the one. He died in prison a couple years ago, snuggled up against his buddy pincushion. Yes, that Charles Manson. He was indeed a musician. This is a main component of our last episode of Disgraceland, Manson the musician, Charles Manson, the music man. Manson as a musician is something that either gets overlooked or at best as giving passing attention or is laughed off and for good reason. Charles Manson wasn't that great of a musician. That was clear. But music, more than that much more than more specifically his attempts at a career of music are at the very heart of the story of the

murders of Sharon Tate, Jay Sebring, Abigail Folger, Voitek Varyke-Frikowski, Stephen Parent, Rosemary, and Lino Lavinca, and even Gary Hellman. We think of Manson as a murderer, a cult leader, even a serial killer, but not as a musician, like I said. Why, or why not, when music was clearly at the center of Manson's story? By now, if you've been listening to Disgraceland at least, you know the story, the story that Charles Manson aspired to be a rock star, to use music to lead the masses, and that he made some famous fans of his music, none other than Neil Young tried to get Charles Manson signed to a

record deal with Mo Austin and Warner Brothers. And Dennis Wilson of the Beach Boys, of course, hooked Charlie up with famed record producer Wilson's buddy and birds producer Terry Melcher to help develop in groom Manson for his music career. Terry Melcher, of course, knew what Neil Young and Dennis Wilson somehow didn't, and that was that Charles Manson sucked as a musician. Sure, he had some interesting ideas, and like I detail in the episode, if the mood and the vibe was right and he wasn't too fucked up, Charlie could string together a couple stream of conscious verses over some poorly played chords on an acoustic guitar in a way that suggested music, but musician hardly. Charlie didn't have the goods. But still, that doesn't

erase the fact that, like I said, music is at the heart of Charles Manson's story. And the Beatles' his music is at the heart of the helter-skelter motive that prosecuting attorney Vincent Bouloges used to convict Manson of the murders. Yet in the official narrative about Charles Manson, he's constantly referred to as a quote-unquote failed musician. That descriptor never quite jive for me. Failure suggests a lack of impact or significance. And when it comes to Manson's music, that's hardly the case. Sure, Manson failed to capture the ear of Terry Melcher and Boulogzi used that fact, to establish motive for the tape murders orchestrated by Charlie, a claim that I think is bullshit, by the way, thanks to Tom O'Neill's excellent book, Chaos, but more on this bogus motive

in the upcoming Mama Cass episodes, and more on O'Neill's book later in this episode, but I digress. Melcher's passing on Manson aside, Charles Manson's music did indeed have a lasting impact. His music was recorded and released by some of the biggest artists on the planet and helped shaped and influence generations of musicians to come. We touch on this at the end of our Manson episode, but I want to get more to that here in this bonus episode in just one second. Okay, in the fall of 1993,

when they were arguably the biggest rock and roll band in the world, Duns and Roses released an EP called The Spaghetti Incident. It included a hidden track with, admittedly, a great title called Look at Your Game Girl. And the song was originally released back in 1970 on an album, called Lie, the Love and Terror Cult by, you guessed it, Charles Manson. Apparently, the other members of Guns and Roses didn't want anything to do with the song and did not contribute to the recording of the song and of the reason that the song was

unlisted on the original liner notes. This was an Axel Rose jam. The release of the song led to instant condemnation for the band from a broad spectrum of concerned citizens, including none other than their record label boss, David Geffen, who said of the incident, quote, I would hope that if Axel Rose had realized how offensive people would find this, he would not have ever recorded the song in the first place, end quote. Geffen went on to the L.A. Times to say, the fact that Charles Manson would be earning money based on the fame he derived from committing one of the most horrific crimes of the 20th century is unthinkable to me, unquote.

Money. Quick math based on royalty rates from 1993 that I stole from an article in the Baltimore Sun, but I'm low-key hoping you'll think I'm smart enough to pull out for my ass. work out to be about $62,000 to Charles Manson for every one million copies of the Guns and Roses EP, the Spaghetti Incident, that was sold. Doesn't sound like a failed musician to me, but it doesn't matter.

Geffen intervened, and he made sure that the royalties never made their way to Manson in prison. Instead, he made sure that the money went to Bartek-Frikowski, on behalf of the Manson family murder victim, Voitek Vrykowski. It also doesn't matter, because the song sucks. both the G&R version and the Manson version. But you know what doesn't suck?

The Brian Jonestown Massacre's rendition of Manson's song, Arkansas, entitled Arkansas Revisited. Nor does Evan Dando from the Lemonhead's cover of Charlie's, Your Home is Where You're Happy. With a little digging, it isn't hard to see the influence and the impact that Charles Manson's music had on a later generation of musicians, those who were influential in their own right. And like I say in our episode, Trent Resner of Nine Inch Nails moved in to Roman Polansky and Sharon Tate's house where Tate and her friends

were brutally murdered by Charlie's followers. It's where Trent worked on the Nine Inch Nails album, The Downward Spiral, and that album does not suck. Resner also recorded Marilyn Manson, who obviously took his name from Charlie in Tate's former house on Ciello Drive as well.

But ultimately, Trent moved out from the Hollywood Hills home when he had a chance running with Sharon Tate's sister who asked him why he was exploiting her sister's death. He never thought of it that way, of course. Trent was just trying to get close to the American folklore, up close and personal with the weirdness of history. But ultimately, the meeting caused him to consider the victims,

something he hadn't really done prior. And it's something that we should all try to do when we're delving into these insane true crime stories. I try, I do. I fail sometimes, but I do try. Charles Manson was not a failed musician, though. His music had lasting impact despite the fact that his music, at least his recording of it, was not good. I was offered a first pressing edition of Lye, the Love and Terror Cult, Charlie's record on vinyl, about a year ago, for my friend Dylan at Noble Records, for $500.

A lot of money, sure, but I felt, I don't want to say, I don't want to overstate how I felt, but I felt a little bit, I think, of what Trent Rezner must have felt when considering, you know, his association with that house. that macabre feeling of being up close and personal to something that's so dark and such a big part of history. I passed on by in that record. Not because I'm a more virtuous person or anything like that, I'm not, but because I was freaked out. I don't want that kind of evil lying around my house.

And when we come back after this break, we're going to talk about a different evil from a different record than I'm very happy to have lying around my house. All right, before we get to listener calls, text, and emails, I want to talk to you about what I'm reading what I'm watching and what I'm listening to. The theme of this culture that I'm absorbing over the past week,

evil. And that's the name of the record you need to check out, partially. Miles Davis's Live Evil. I'm not sure I touched on this album in the Miles Davis episodes I released. I think I did. I think I mentioned it at least. But I pulled it out again last month for Halloween and was quickly reminded of how incredible this record is.

As an album, it defies categorization. I will say it's definitely not your Miles Davis that your dad listened to. This is 70s era, drugged out, Miles trying to fuck up Sly Stone, aggressively weird Miles Davis. It's electric, it's funky, it's dark, and again, it's weird in all the best ways. Check it out, Live Evil by Miles Davis. Speaking of evil, I'm reading the life and crimes of Richard Ramirez, the Nightstocker, and holy shit, is it great. Let me tell you something, I read a lot, and I read a lot of true crime,

and this is one of the best true crime books that I've ever read. I'm reading it to research the upcoming ACDC episode that I'm doing, and I cannot put it down. Richard Ramirez was a special kind of evil, an evil that's really hard to imagine. It has me running to the Bible. I'm not even kidding. It's that fucked up. I'm looking for an explanation. I can't get one.

I don't know how this dude did what he did. And the author, the late great Philip Carlo, he captures Ramirez on an intimate level. It makes all of his actions all the more horrifying and especially creepy. be. This book has me getting up to check if my doors are locked on a regular basis. I'm not even kidding. The last book to do that for me was Tom O'Neill's chaos, Charles Manson, the CIA, and the secret history of the 60s. This is the book that let me down the rabbit hole to produce this latest episode on Manson and the upcoming two episodes on Mama Cass. I've talked a lot about chaos before, but it's just because it's so damn good it's worthy of talking about. And the best way I can

describe it is this. You know all the crazy batch hit theories and anecdotes about the Manson murder Well, O'Neill's book, Chaos, provides a thoroughly sourced spine of information to disrupt the narrative that we've been fed about why and how these murders happened and just who exactly was involved. Read it, listen to the Mama Cass episodes coming up in disgrace land, and you will be forever squinting between the lines of Helter Skelter and possibly calling bullshit on the whole damn thing. Chaos, Tom O'Neill, get it, and read it before the Netflix stock comes out.

All right, I got two recommendations. for what I'm watching. Sticking with the theme of evil, I have to talk about the new movie all quiet on the Western front. I cannot remember the last movie I watched where I caught myself staring motionless with my mouth literally open. My jaw just dropped. I was afraid to move. I didn't want to look away. This is probably the greatest war movie that I've ever seen. If the horror of war is unimaginable, the filmmakers here did something that's never been done before. They imagined it, and they brought it to the screen in a way that makes saving Private Ryan look like a fucking PG-13 feel-good hit of the summer.

This is incredible filmmaking, and it is dark and horrifying. I don't let that stop you, though. Dive in. It's fantastic. You got to watch it. All quiet on the Western Front, the 2002 edition.

All right, I'm all caught up on White Lotus Season 2. I'm waiting with bated breath for the next episode, as I know all of you are. I realized something when I watched this last episode. One of the cool tricks that this show plays, it's the way it presents all these modern-day cultural issues

on whatever, on politics, gender, class, et cetera. It presents these arguments from both sides while maintaining this neutral point of view. And it makes the proponents of both sides on screen look thoroughly ridiculous. It's got this objectivity that I strive for in everyday life. And someday, if I'm lucky, I'll get there. Until then, Mike White for president.

All right, discos, let's hear from you. I want texts. I want your emails, I want your voicemails, I want your DMs, get in touch, let me know what you're reading, let me know what you're watching, let me know what you're listening to, send me some freaking podcast recommendations. I'm getting weird shit. I'm getting weird shit in the Google Voice box, and I'm here for it. That's all I'm saying.

Keep it coming. All right, a texter from the 646 area code who didn't give their first name, sent me a bunch of awesome subjects for disgrace land and badlands, and then randomly. some close-up shots of legendary mobster Frank Costello's mausoleum. Totally weird, totally awesome. I have no idea why this listener is hanging out in the cemetery, snapping pictures of mafia boss tombs. But, hey, like I said, I'm here for it.

Send me more weird shit, America. I'm listening. I'm watching. I'm looking. Give it to me. Text me at 617-906-66-36-38. Or go ahead and call, too. Leave a voicemail.

I'll respond. I try to check. Not try. I do. I check every single message. Not immediately, but I get to it, and I respond. I try to respond to all of them. I think I've done a good job of responding.

Textor Johnny Vinyl from the 617 writes, What about a Johnny Thunders episode? To which I respond, I have an LAMF tattoo, so you know that that shit is going to be happening at some point, Johnny Vinyl. Keep your ears open. Johnny Thunders will be coming your way. Johnny Vinyl from the 617 also wrote, he said that Bob Dylan said that he wished,

he could have written a song, as good as Johnny Thunders, you can't put your, your arms around a memory. Is that true? I never heard that before. Is that from Dylan's new book? I don't know. Sounds like it might be. I haven't read Dylan's new book. Have you? Is it worth reading? Let me know. Call, text, 617-906-66-38. Be like J-T here, bringing the recommendations. Here's J-T's voicemail. Hey, Jay, it's J-T out in California. Hey, first off, I love your shows, all of them. You guys kick me your app. It entertains me on my long drives to work. Hey, I'd really love to hear an episode on the

red hot chili peppers, in particular focusing on Hillel's slowback and his untimely death. Anyway, thought that might be good materials. I don't know if you guys have even thought of it, you probably have. But anyway, keep up the good work. Why yes, JT, we have thought of doing an episode on the Red Hot Chili Peppers, but I've been saving it. I don't know much about Hillel's death, but I'm a huge fan of the band, and I know a little bit about Anthony Kedis' his wild upbringing, his dad, that whole thing. So keep an ear out.

We'll definitely be getting into the chili peppers in a future episode of Disgraceland. Emailer, Will Kavanaugh from Australia writes, Hi, just thought I would write to say how much I love your podcast. I came across you during the first wave of lockdowns, y'h, and have been gripped ever since. The way you make me feel that you are actually in the room,

so to speak, when things are happening, is right on. As you're a music guy, you may want to read this book, Blood, Sweat and Beers, an anthology of stories from Australian rock and roll, and to quote your pods, some of the stories are insane. Well, I think you, Will. I will check that out.

I've heard of this book before. You know what it's like. Sometimes you've got to get things recommended once, twice, three times before you really dig in. So blood, sweat, and beers, I'm going to check that out. And Will, you'll be happy to know as an Australian that I started writing my ACDC episode today. That'll be out early in 2003. So guys, be like Will. Send me your recommendations.

Text or call at 617-90666-3638. Or email disgracelandpod at gmail.com. Or hit me up on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok at Disgraceland Pod. All right, this brings another bonus episode of Disgraceland to an end. Thank you so much for listening. Next up, like I said earlier, two parts on the Mamas and the Pappas, Mama Cass Elliott in her connection to the Manson murders. These episodes are really just a continuation of the Charles Manson episode that preceded this drop.

If you're listening to this on Tuesday before the holiday, please travel safe, enjoy your time with your families and your loved ones. And by all means, hit me up if you feel like blabbing again, 617-90666-3638 on the text and the voicemail. Disgracelandpod at gmail.com and at disgraceland pod on Twitter, Instagram, and take Talk. Now, for my moment of Zen, in honor of the Brian Jones Town Massacre, a reading from 1967's Fayetteville, Arkansas phone book. And if I pronounce Fayetteville, Arkansas, wrong, I don't know what to tell you, man. Never been there. Here you go. Hammond, Alex, 902, Berry, Hillcrest, 2-5-689.

Hammond, Hugo, 101, Hollywood, Hillcrest, 3-0-1-1-Hawleywood, Hillcrest, 3-8,000, 3246, Hammond, IRA, 1201, Wesley, Hillcrest, 2-4103, Hammond, Oregon Studios of Fayetteville, 2423 North College, H-I-3-213, Haney, F-L, Mrs, 214, South Buchanan, Hillcrest, 2-2231, Hankies, Evel, Hillcrest, Hillcrest 2-55-30. Hankins, Kenneth, 1431, L.O., Hillcrest, 3-411, 4-0, Ham, Clarence, 1633, May.

Quit talking and start mixing. Cut it!