DISGRACELAND - Bonus Episode: Fantastic Fight Scenes, Predatory Paparazzi, and Goon versus Slapshot

Episode Date: April 18, 2024

This week in the After Party, Jake talks actors committing fully, this week's DISGRACELAND episode on Heath Ledger, and of course your emails, texts, DMS, and voicemails. What are your top five favorite fight scenes? What is your favorite Heath Ledger performance? Is Heath one of the best actors of the early 2000s? Do you believe Debbie Harry about encountering Ted Bundy? Drop a line at 617-906-6638, [e-mail], or on socials @disgracelandpod, and come join the After Party.To hear an extended version of the After Party with insight into the paparazzi's setup of Heath Ledger in an L.A. hotel room, and more from the DISGRACELAND community, become a Disgraceland All Access member at disgracelandpod.com/membership. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is exactly right. Double Elvis. Hey, Discos, you can listen to an extended version of this after-party episode by becoming a member of Disgraceland All Access. Just go to disgracelandpod.com slash membership for more details and to sign up. Hey, guys, welcome to Discraceland, which is brought to you by Double Elvis. This week, we have our episode on Heath Ledger in the Disgracedland Feed, and for our All Access members and our Patreon and Apple, Apple,

subscription feeds, we have episodes on Lane Staley of Allison Chains and Hunter S. Thompson, as well as a brand new episode we have coming up next week on Basquiat. Be sure to make sure that you're all signed up for our all-access content, either on Apple Podcasts or on Patreon so that you can hear those episodes. It's the only place you can get them. And over in the Musicland Stories feed, that's our fictional show for kids and families. We're rolling right along with our second season, our underwater season with episode seven. That's out right now. Check that out. All right. Let's do this bonus episode. Hey, discos. Need a little more disgrace land in your life? Just a touch to get you through? Yeah, me too. This is the podcast that

comes after the podcast. Welcome to Disgraceland, the After Party. Welcome to the Disgraceland bonus episode, a little thing we like to call The After Party. This is the show after the show, the party after the party, the bridge to get you from one full episode of Disgraceland to the other, the backyard to dig into the dirt on this episode. We are talking about this week's full episode of Disgraceland on Heath Ledger, favorite fight scenes from our favorite films, the sources that we used for our recent episode of Disgraceland, which helped us uncover one of the wildest paparazzi stories that we've ever heard. This one, of course, on Heath Ledger. And of course, we're getting into your voicemails, your texts, your DMs, and more. And as always, a

whole lot of rosy. All right, discos, let's get. Where is the line and how do you know if you passed it? That's the question. I've been close to the line. I think most of us have. I'm sure some of us, though, never have. And I envy you, but who among you has walked up to the line and stepped over it, either willingly or unwillingly? The line is madness. The line is extremism. The line is addiction. The line is obsession. The line is many things. You know it when you approach it. For me, it would always show up at about 5 a.m. in some stranger's kitchen. Most recently, however, it's shown up in my work. How far do you go? How high do you try to jump, knowing that the more you try, the heart of the pain when you fall or fail? We discussed

countless musicians who've crossed the line, murderers, cult leaders, addicts, and of course, we've also discussed numerous actors who've crossed the line. Now, musicians tend to cross over like most people we know, and most people we know, we recognize. The musicians, including incorporate their extreme behavior into their lifestyle. This, as you know, can be very scary. When the successful or even struggling songwriter suddenly thinks he's Jesus and starts a real-life cult, well, paging Mr. Manson. But actors tend to cross the line for their craft. Many make it back over the line to become themselves again. Most do, to go on leading happy lives as family men and women or whatever, but of course many do not. We've all heard the stories of actors famously

committing themselves to their roles, in many cases to achieve staggering creative success. Jamie Fox, gluing his eyes shut to play Ray Charles, Nick Cage, having his teeth pulled without anesthetic for his role in Bertie, Robert De Niro, breaking Joe Pesci's rib and raging bull, ouch. Christian Bale, of course, losing 65 pounds, living on only an apple and a coffee a day to prep for his role in The Machinist. All these actors went further than was ever expected of them to make the roles that they were playing more authentic, more believable, more relatable, crossing the line with their method acting approach, playing the part, achieving success with sometimes dangerous consequences, and then, most importantly, crossing

back over, again, like I said, to go back to their normal lives and eventually play other roles and act in other films. All of them survived. Everyone I just mentioned, Jamie Fox, Nicholas Cage, Joe Pesci, Christian Bale, Robert De Niro. Heath Ledger did not. he crossed the line and it seems he wasn't ever able to fully make it back. Many elements contributed to Heath Ledger's death at a young age, but his death coming on the heels of his obsessive research into a commitment to his role in the Joker in 2008s the Dark Night is no doubt a key contributor. To say the role killed Heath Ledger is unfair and inaccurate.

It's not like Heath Ledger didn't have agency, he did. But I believe while researching the role of the Joker, some internal tripwire in Heath Ledger was triggered. Some line was crossed and he never made it fully back. You can hear all about the results in this week's full episode of disgrace land. However, one of the ways in which Heath Ledger's incredible research and commitment to the role manifested on screen in the dark night is during the famous fight scene between his character, the Joker, and Christian Bales, Batman.

The results are violent, to say the least, painful, super real, and again, you can hear about it in this week's full episode of disgrace on Heath Ledger, but it got me thinking about some of the greatest fight scenes in Hollywood history and trying to nail that list down

to my five favorite, five favorite fight scenes, and whoa, was this not an easy task? It is really an impossible task, Think about it. Think about how many great fight scenes there are in films. Even movies that aren't action movies. Comedies have great fight scenes sometimes. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to try to do this. It doesn't mean I'm not going to ask you for your five favorite fight scenes either. I am. But first, here are mine. Number five, Leonardo DiCaprio versus the bear in Revenant because

I've never seen anything like this before and it's indescribably violent and harrowing. I'm not even going to try to explain what this is. It's just literally. Literally, Leonardo DiCaprio's character versus a massive bear. And they get in a fight, and it's fucking unbelievable. You have to watch this. If you have not seen it, I guarantee you, you've never seen anything like it before. Number four, Batman versus Bane. That's right, not Batman versus the Joker from the Dark Night.

Why? I don't know, to be honest, I was kind of Heath Ledgered out by the time I get around to researching this fight list. So there you go. Number three, the Hanson Brothers versus everyone from Slapshot. This might be my favorite, probably the funniest and most absurd, but I had to hold it at three for reasons I'll explain right now. Number two, Tommy and Jimmy versus Billy Bats and Goodfellas. I know this is going to get some of you pissed off at me because it's not much of a fight. It's more of an ambush. But the Donovan song playing in the background, contrasted with Scorsese's violence, makes this one hard to top for me personally. And, okay, speaking personally, and number one, the greatest fight scene in the history of Hollywood film. This is so stupid. It sounds so dumb coming out of my mouth, trying to actually narrow this down to five,

and never mind, one. The number one, though, the number one fight scene, though, from my point of view, Rocky versus Apollo Creed in Rocky. Why? Okay, it has nothing to do with boxing. It has nothing to do with how it's shot. And yes, I know that the fight scenes

in Raging Bowl and in countless other movies are better than this fight scene. I know that by the end of Rocky, we're not even sure who won. I mean, let's be honest. Can you actually remember? The reason Rocky versus Apollo Creed is the greatest fight scene of all time, is because of one word, love.

By the end, when Rocky is so beaten and battered that he can barely stand, he made it, man, he went the distance, which is all he wanted to do. And in that moment, his greatest and most triumphant moment, the moment where he personally persevered to slay his dragon, in that moment when the eyes of his beloved hometown of Philadelphia and of the world are shining down on him favorably, when Rocky succeeds in becoming the one thing he most certainly wanted to become, which is someone who wasn't just another bum from the neighborhood, in that great moment of personal triumph, what does Rocky do? He cries out for Adrian. He doesn't want glory. He wants his girl. It's love. Love, love, and more love. It's all

Rocky needs. And Rocky is the greatest love story ever told because love is all any of us need. And so when the greatest love story culminates with a fight, that fight scene must therefore be the greatest two, right? Right. I don't know. Seems logical to me. Fight me if you don't agree. Actually, don't.

I'm not resorting to violence for my work. That will be crossing the line. So let me know your five. Just five favorite fight scenes from Hollywood history, 617-90666-6638 voicemail and text. I'll be back in a flash. Let's talk for a minute about the sources we used for this episode. There are a couple of books out there that were super helpful for us,

one called Heath Ledger, Hollywood's Dark Star by Brian J. Rob, and another called Dark Joker, Heath Ledger's Joker Transformation, the filming days of Dark Night, and his tragic death by Marcus Dakota. That's another one. The latter is a little tough to find. I believe it's self-published, but both books contain plenty of holy shit moments, whether it was the idea that Heath may have had a hard time shaking his iconic role as the Joker, or even the one of the most fucked up encounters that an actor has ever had with the paparazzi, but more on that later. In addition to the books, though, we used, of course, the 2017 documentary I am Heath Ledger as well, which Heath's family participated in after Heath's partner, Michelle Williams, gave the film

her blessing. It's worth noting, too, that when we're researching these subjects for disgrace and episodes, the more contemporary the subject, the less definitive research materials you have to go on, sometimes. And what I mean by this is that if you're researching a subject like Marilyn Monroe or Marlon Brando, excuse me, or Bob Marley or any other major actor or musician or artist from the past, there's often a ton of sources out there in terms of major books. And you can pretty easily figure out which ones are perhaps more credible than others. And like I talked about the other week with Steve McQueen, it's often helpful to have a few at your disposal for different points of view. But

with a more contemporary figure like Heath Ledger, it can be way more difficult to have access to a complete picture. And by complete, all I mean is a portrait of the artist that has the benefit of hindsight, of time, years, and decades in which people who didn't speak before are now speaking. New information, new details come to light that weren't available before. Oftentimes you get sources who have different interests than those who are close to the subject, who aren't, let's say, so concerned with maintaining legacy and that sort of thing, and often you get a more honest portrayal. Heath Ledger is, of course, gone tragically, but in some ways it's going to be a while before we truly understand some of the things about his life and some of the things about his death.

And I say all this, not to say that researching and writing an episode on Heath Ledger is more difficult per se, but it's just a different beast. And you should know that when you're listening to these more contemporary subjects in disgraceland. However, I think we did the, Heath Ledger's story, Justice. You know, this was eventually a, I'm sorry, this was originally a Badlands episode that we released a couple years ago. It's never been in the disgrace land feed for the disgrace land listeners. It is now.

When we released the Badlands episode, I was contacted by Vice, Vice TV, to be part of their series resolved in their episode on Heath Ledger. And that invitation came on the heels of them hearing what was the badlands episode which we produced on Heath Ledger, which many of you are now hearing for the first time in disgrace land. And if you're curious, you can find that, that Vice episode out there with me in it. It's on the internet. Just search Resolved Heath Ledger. And you'll see yours truly in there talking Heath. Okay, but I want to know, what do you think about this episode we did? Where do you stand on Heath Ledger? What's his best performance? To me, it's either the dark,

Night or Brokeback Mountain. It's those two and those two only in the sort of pantheon, the apex of his career. Let me know which one you think. I don't know. That's a tough one. I'm thinking about it now. Sorry, I'm getting tripped up thinking about which one I actually think is better the Dark Knight or Brokeback Mountain. That's a tough one. It's a really tough one. And is Heath one of your favorite actors of the early 2000s? If not, who is? Hit me up. Let me know 617-90666.638. And especially hit me up on your top five favorite. favorite fight scenes from Hollywood is Heath Ledger and Christian Bale from The Dark Night. Does it crack your top five?

If not, what is your top five, 617-90666-66-3-8, just like Michael from the 415. Hey, Jake, this is Michael from Ham Tremack, Michigan. You already named the greatest cover song. It's all along the Watchtower. Pretty Woman's Fine. Is that my favorite track on that album? I actually think that the cover of the Kings tune, where of all the gift haven't gone, It's awesome.

Killer. All right. Love your show. Amen. Mike, thanks, brother. Yeah, we talked about those two in particular. Man, this is the subject that just keeps on giving people. Don't want to stop talking about the greatest covers of all time.

And I don't blame me. It's a compelling subject. But we talked about all on the watch shower, of course, and Pretty Woman. Where of all the good times gone by the kinks? And I can't tell. I should know this. Did the kinks cover that from somebody else who wrote it? Or are you referring to David Bowie's cover?

of the kinks. I always thought Bowie covered the kinks. Am I getting this wrong? Let me know. 617-906-66-6638. Voicemail or text 814 text in. Hey, an episode about Ozzy Osborne trying to kill Sharon after the Moscow Peace Festival

would be cool. Hey, 814, we have that episode. It's in our archive. Go search out Ozzy Osbourne. You will get it. All right. Check it out. 719 writes in, regarding Miss Harry, referring to Debbie Harry.

So I'm just going to say Debbie Harry. Regarding Debbie Harry's Ted Bundy story, colon. It's true. One of her besties is the jazz ensemble instructor at ICE, where my son learned how to connect reading the music to his synesthesia. She joined them on Fridays, after school, to sing. And that's it, and presumably 719 got the lowdown from Debbie Harry there. Hmm, all right, yeah.

I mean, look, I always believe this story for, for a couple reasons. One, and if you don't know what I'm talking about, I'm talking about we did a Blondie episode. A big part of that episode is Debbie Harry's claim that she was abducted and escaped from Ted Bundy in the early 70s in Manhattan. And I just did a little video reel of it

and released it on Instagram. So it's resurfacing this topic here for you guys. But a lot of people, so you know if this is new to you, a lot of people call bullshit on this and think that Debbie Harry is mistaken. or lying that she did not experience this event with Ted Bundy. And a lot, and I talk about it in the video and I talk about it in the episode. I talk about how this has been disputed. However, I happen to believe it. And the reasons I believe it are this. A lot of people say Ted Bundy was not in New York

at that time. Okay. Do you really know? Do you really know? Now, there is competing evidence that he was elsewhere. But it's not like we have an exact timeline of where Ted Bundy was at every moment during that decade in who he killed. There's all this circumstantial evidence that points to the fact that there were many more victims that we don't know about. Plus, there's also evidence that though people say he was not or could not have been in Manhattan at that time, Debbie Harry claims this incident took place, there is evidence that support that he was in Philadelphia, which is like less than a two-hour drive away from New York. So it stands to reason that he could have gone to Manhattan.

Okay? Put that aside for a second. Debbie Harry is a very sophisticated person. Okay? She clearly knows that when she puts this stuff out there and continues to defend it, that people are going to call bullshit on her and attack her credibility.

And I think Debbie Harry is the type of person who actually gives a shit about her image, about her legacy. And I think if she found out that this was impossible and that she perhaps was mistaken, know, her lion eyes, whatever it was, she would, if not corrected the record, at least she would have stopped making this claim, which she has not. And now people also say, yo, well, Debbie Harry was blonde. She wasn't Ted Bundy's type who only liked brunettes.

Well, Debbie Harry actually was a brunette. She was a brunette in the early 70s before she dyed her hair and joined Blondie. Okay? There you go. For those reasons. Plus, just Debbie fucking Harry, man. I don't know. That's why I believe her. 617-906-66-6-6-3-8. Do you believe Debbie Harry? Let me know. Hit me up on the voicemail.

Hit me up on the text. We're going to take a quick break. I'll be right back. Heidi, hi-di-ha-ha-ho. We are back, people. And I want to dive into this Heath Ledger paparazzi story, just a little bit more deeply, the one that I mentioned up top. A little bit more deeply, excuse me, and we clarify that.

We mentioned this paparazzi story up top. And I would like to dive into it a little more deeply than we did do in the episode right here in the bonus episode. Getting tongue-tied. this morning. This is happening numerous times. I'm recording very early. I'm going to go to the doctors later today. It's kind of messing up my schedule. And then I'm taking off for a brief little vacation at the end of the week. That's kind of messing up my schedule as well. Jampacking everything, front loading the week here for me. So I'm recording really early and I'm drinking coffee while I record, which I normally don't do. And I don't know, it's tripping me up or something. Anyways, I digress.

back to Heath Ledger. Okay, this paparazzi story, this crazy story about members of the press who tricked Heath into putting himself in a compromising position in order to, for them to get secret photos that they could sell for a huge payday. This is a fucked up predatory story that we, like I said, we get into in the episode. I'm going to get into a little more fully here, but here's the thing. We're going to talk about this in the disgrace land, all access feed. Okay. So if you're listening to me, say these words you hear right now, it means that you are not a member of the Disgraceland All Access members only club members only tonight. All right, remember those members only jackets?

We're selling them. No, we're not. But you can get into this disgrace land all access content. We are offering that up, okay? The good news is it's super easy to join, and you can be listening to the extended version of this after party right now. And if you just, all you're going to do, you just get to go to disgracelandpod.com slash membership. choose whether you'd like to join all access via Apple Podcasts or Patreon, and then bam, for just five bucks a month.

That's it, even less. If you sign up for an annual membership, you get exclusive weekly bonus content, like this extended version of the afterparty that I was just talking about. You also get an exclusive full episode every month, like episodes on Hunter S. Thompson, Lane Staley, those are ready for you right now. We get a brand new exclusive episode on Basquiat coming next week. And if you choose the Patreon option, you're going to be able to join our always on chat with me in your fellow. disco is talking about all things, disgrace land, and so much more. Listen, maybe you're listening to this right now and you're like, I'm good, Jake. I like the disgrace and experience exactly as it is. And that's cool. I get it. I'm stoked you're here one way or the other. But if you want more,

and let's face it, a lot of people, they want more, more exclusive weekly content, more full episodes. If you want ad free listening, then head on over to disgracelandpod.com slash membership. As soon as you sign up, you can listen to the bonus part of this after party that you're missing out on right now. All right, back in a flash. All right, let's recap, shall we? Number one, there's more after-party to listen to right now. All you got to do is go to disgracelandpot.com and sign up to become an all-access member.

But if that ain't your bag, then number two, right now, in your feed, this week's episode on Heath Ledger. Number three, coming tomorrow, a rewind episode on Marvin Gay, who we lost 40 years ago this month. I know I said this is coming last week. Forgive me, I made the guys switch it up so we could release it this week for reasons I'm not going to get into right now. Number four, over in the Badlands Feed, we've got episodes from the archive on Dwayne Johnson in the Black Dahlia. Number five, next week in the Disgraceland feed, a brand new episode on Public Enemy, plus another brand new episode on Basquat. Number six, my number is 617-90666-36-38. Call me on the telephone or text me.

Number seven, remember, no one cares about the music you love more than you do, and well, that's a disgrace. Now, my moment of bliss and honor this week's episode on Heath Ledger, me reading you, the Billboard Hot 100 chart, from the week of January 19th, 2008, which was the week that Heath Ledger died at the age of 28. Too soon. Number one. Low.

Flowrida featuring T-Pain. Last week, one. Peak position, one. Weeks on chart, 11. Number two, no one. Alicia Keys. Last week, two. Peak position, one.

Weeks on chart, 18. Number three, apologize. Timbalan, featuring one republic. Last week, three. Peak position, two, weeks on church, 23. Number three, kiss, kiss, Chris Brown, featuring T-Pain. Last week, last week, four, peak position, week's on, week's on turn, weeks on-17. Number four, number five, Chris Brown's. Thank you.