DISGRACELAND - Bonus Episode - Irish Artists, Def Leppard and Huey Lewis

Episode Date: March 13, 2025

This week in the After Party, all the stars come out to play: Def Leppard, Huey Lewis, Gene Hackman, Odell Beckham, Jr and of course, Thin Lizzy! Plus, we hear from you about your favorite Irish artists.Next week, we're bringing you a story about George Michael, one of the all-time great pop vocalists and a major star of the early MTV era. We want to know: Which early-era MTV star was your favorite? Tell Jake at 617-906-6638, [e-mail], or on socials @disgracelandpod.For more great Disgraceland episodes, dive into our extensive archive, including such episodes as:Episodes 97 and 98 - EaglesEpisode 99 - Billie HolidayEpisode 113 - Charles MansonEpisodes 115 and 116 - Mama Cass ElliotTo hear an extended version of the After Party and gain access to our recent exclusive episode on guitar legend Stevie Ray Vaughan, become a Disgraceland All Access member at disgracelandpod.com/membership.Visit www.disgracelandpod.com/merch to see the latest Disgraceland merch!Sign up for our newsletter and get the inside dirt on events, merch and other awesomeness - GET THE NEWSLETTERFollow Jake and DISGRACELAND:InstagramYouTubeX (formerly Twitter)  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is exactly right. Double Elvis. Hey, Discos, need a little more disgrace land in your life? Just a touch to get you through? Yeah, me too. This is the podcast that comes after the podcast. Welcome to Disgraceland, the After Party. Welcome to the Disgraceland bonus episode.

A little thing we like to call the after party. This is the show, after the show, the party after the party, the bridge to get you from one full episode of Disgrace Land to the other, the backyard to dig into the dirt. On this bonus episode, we are talking about this week's full episode subject, Thin Lizzie. We also talk some Def Leopard, Huey Lewis, Gene Hackman, Odell Beckham Jr. And I guarantee those are four names never used together in the same sentence before. And we get into your voicemails, text, DMs, emails.

And as always, a whole lot of rosy. All right, discos, let's get into it. The song, Jailbreak, off of Thin Lizzie's 1976 album, the same name, is about as perfect a song as lead off track can get. I think anyways. I listened to the song yesterday when I was working out. I was immediately pushing myself harder. I was singing along in my backyard, likely annoying my neighbors. And don't get me wrong, the entire jailbreak album by Thin Lizzie is great. But that lead off track is fucking perfect, man. It sets the whole album up. It perfectly encapsulates what the band is about and what's in store

for you, the listener, for the next 40 minutes or so. Thin Lizzie were a tough band to figure out for me as a young metalhead. I missed their whole thing. I didn't get into him until I was an adult. You know, as a kid, of course, I saw the patches, I saw the pins. I saw the name of the band in that iconic big bold white font on the black. The image, of course, of Phil Linnet, stretched out on stage with his bass piercing upward from between his legs, his afro, his guitar players and their signature harmonized guitars. The boys are back in town, also from jailbreak. Massive song, still is massive.

I knew and loved it, of course, but it was, like I said, before my time, and it didn't compel me as a fourth-grade kid to get on my mongoose and pedal down to Kmart with my $10 or whatever to buy their record and then figure out how to hold that record and the Kmart bag properly over my handlebars while still being able to balance and steer my way home to my shitty sears-bought stereo where I was undoubtedly listening to probably Van Halen or Ozzy Osbourne. Then Lizzie predated MTV, which pretty much means they predated my little kid ears. But their influence, not predate some of MTV's leading artists. Hughie Lewis says, quote, Phil Linnet was the single greatest performer I've ever seen. He had incredible stage instincts. We opened for Thin Lizzie and I saw about 50 shows and they were incredible. Now, you may be laughing at the idea of Huey Lewis's opinion. And you shouldn't, by the way, Hughie Lewis and the news, both great. And you should look into their early days, look at Clover and the connection to Elvis Costello. And my point is, you know, Hugh Lewis has been around. He's seen some stuff.

So to call Phil Linet, the greatest performer he'd ever seen, is saying something. But it was another musician from the early days of MTV who might have had a hand in actually breaking up Thin Lizzie. And that's Joe Elliott from the band, Def Leopard. We know Def Leopard as the mid to late 80s MTV hair metal juggernaut with their monster album hysteria. Huge, huge record. Four hit singles off the top of my head. Probably more, actually. Pour some sugar on me, animal, love bites, the title track, hysteria.

I know I'm probably forgetting a few. This album was massive. It was huge. But the Def Leopard before hysteria, the DeFleppard record before hysteria, Pyromania, was Def Leopard's breakthrough. And it's kind of hard to understand now. But when Pyromania was released in 1983,

it didn't sound like anything that had been released prior. It was produced by Mutt Lang, and Mutt was coming off the success of recording one of the biggest selling albums ever, ACDCs, back in black. and Mutt was clearly feeling himself creatively in the studio with Def Leppard because his recording of pyromania was unconventional to say the least. He recorded the bass and guitars to a drum machine, not to the drums, which is unheard of.

And then he essentially overdubbed the drums afterward. This is not how records are made. Typically, you start with the rhythm section. They typically record live, the bass and the drums together. And yeah, there's some overdubbing that happens, of course. but to record the bass to a click to a drum machine and not to drums, and then to record the guitars to that same drum machine and also not to drums, and then to essentially overdub the drums afterward, again, unheard of,

but this technique allowed mutt laying with Def Leopard's Pyromania to hyper focus on engineering a drum sound that was huge, and that ultimately replaced the drum machine in the recording. Of course, I remember actually being really young, like fourth grade, fifth grade, and arguing with my father about this record. I swear to God. He hated it. He hated that the drums were so-called fake, which is arguable.

Like I said, he hated it in Pyrus cried foul. They said the album lacked feel. They said pyromania was stiff. They said it was made by a machine. They said all the things grumpy old dudes say when they hear something new and unconventional. But what Phil Linnet from Thin Lizzie heard when he heard Def Leopards pyromania was that he was going to have to break up his band and quit music. That's how discouraged Phil was after hearing this record. Phil believed he couldn't compete with Def Leopard and he believed that he couldn't

compete with where popular music in general was going. That's how impactful the recording of Def Leopard's pyromania was on Thin Lizzie. Now this story of Phil hearing Def Leopards' breakthrough album and then quitting has long been challenged as bullshit. Joe Elliott, singer of Defleppard again, who loved Thin Lizzie, has previously told this story from the perspective, not of someone who's bragging, but from the perspective of someone who's supremely bummed out by his part in the breakup of one of his favorite bands. Understandably, this story pisses off Thin Lizzie Purist, to whom Def Leopard can't hold a candle, but just this past year, Vivian Campbell, another Irishman, and another musician, a musician who corroborated Joe Elliott's story, saying that he was there

in the bathroom in a London nightclub in 1982 when Joe Elliott ran into Phil lined it for the first time. and Phil told Joe, after hearing an advanced copy of pyromania, that he didn't see the point in Thin Lizzie going on. And he told Vivian that he didn't feel like Thin Lizzie was relevant anymore and that he had to, quote, move over. Now, do I believe Phil Lannett said this? Yes, I do believe it? But do I believe he meant it?

Not really. I believe he was probably in that bathroom getting high and that he just previously heard something that had blown his mind and didn't know how to process it. And I've been there before creatively. I'm sure a lot of you have as well where you hear or read or see something. so staggeringly new and exciting that it makes you want to quit. But sooner or later,

that discouragement turns into motivation, turns into inspiration. Phil was clouded by drugs at the time, and that was likely the bigger contributor to Thin Lizzie's breakup, bigger than Mutt Lang's innovative recording technique with Def Leopard's Pyromania, but it makes for an interesting story. So there you go. You know what else is an interesting story? The news we got since the last time we talked on Gene Hackman, turns out there was no foul play, which of course is a good thing. However, the details around Gene Hackman's death are strange to say the least. Hackman's wife, Betsy Arakawa, dropped dead of, am I saying this correctly, hantavirus, hunter virus, hantavirus illness, which is a disease spread by rodents.

Hackman, whose brain was ravaged by Alzheimer's spent the next seven days after his wife died roaming around his house with his wife lying on the bathroom floor. And Hackman then died, old, alone, and confused from heart failure. And at some point in that roughly week-long window, their dog died on the premises as well. It's a brutally sad story. Less sad and more confusing is the recent news on Sean Diddy Combs. I'm not going to speculate here on this case anymore because the only thing I'm willing to say that I know regarding this whole ordeal is that I don't know anything and neither does anyone else. We have what seems to be a pissed off judge, a defense attorney who recused himself, another attorney, Tony Busby, who has generated a lot of smoke and not a lot of fire.

we've got a vindicated and now litigious Jay-Z, and some new bold-faced names have entered the chat. NFL player Odell Beckham Jr., he is the famous Justin Bieber TikTok video that may or may not be an AI deep fake, but most certainly is an AI deep fake video, and a former police chief who was named alongside Beckham and Diddy as co-conspirators.

As of this recording, that police chief has not yet responded to the allegations, which is why I'm not using his name. And Odell Buckham Jr. has adamantly denied the allegations against him. The woman accusing him, O.D., accusing Beckham, Ashley Parham, claims that he sexually assaulted her, gang raped her alongside Sean Dindy Combs, and presumably others. And Odell Beckham has said in response to the allegations against him, quote, I've been informed of the allegations about me in a suit.

I really can't even believe that my name is mentioned in that matter. There's absolutely no truth to those allegations. I do not know and have never met the person to file the suit. I was not anywhere near Orinda, California, Arinda, Orinda, Orinda, orinda, at that time. In fact, I don't think I have ever been to that part of California. I have never done anything like that, and I would never do anything like that to anyone. I'm confident that these ridiculous claims against me will be dismissed, unquote. Now, it's important to note that the woman accusing Beckham here of gang raping her alongside Sean Combs is the same woman, by the way, who is claiming that Combs most definitely had a hand in the murder of Tupac Shakur as well. And it should be noted that these accusations are not, at this time, part of the federal case being brought against.

combs and a trial set to start at the beginning of May. So take them with a grain of salt, all right? I guess that's the only thing I know. And this whole wild, wild story that we've been trying to unpack for the last year before it goes to trial, the only thing I know regarding Sean Diddy Combs for sure is that we need to take all of these allegations with a grain of salt. Are these accusations true? Nobody but the accuser and the accused no. TikTok doesn't know dittily squat, as they say. But hey, feel free to spend endless hours on the platform trying to figure out what's real and what's conspiracy. And speaking, speaking of conspiracy, our own Bill Murray, that's right, I'm claiming Bill Murray for disgrace land, our own Bill Murray,

who we covered a couple months ago, Bill Murray went on Joe Rogan last week and blasted famed journalist Bob Woodward, he of the Washington Post, who famously brought down Richard Nixon as part of his investigative journalism efforts surrounding the infamous Watergate break-in and cover-up. Watergate is the story that made Bob Woodward. It's the reason Bob Woodward is celebrated as one of, if not the most successful journalists of all time. After Woodward, who, by the way, before becoming a journalist,

was an intelligence officer. Weird career trajectory, by the way. Intelligence officer to journalists, given that intelligence officers lie for a living, and journalists are supposed to seek the truth. Anyway, after Woodward wrote all the president's men with his partner, Carl Bernstein, who, it should be noted, was a rock journalist.

for Rolling Stone before landing at the Washington Post. Anyway, after those two unlikely Pulitzer Prize winners wrote all the president's men, Bob Woodward wrote a book about John Belushi, Bill Murray, who of course was close with John Belushi, who knew John Belushi well, who knew those around John Belushi. When Bill Murray read Woodward's book on Belushi, Bill Murray said he began to believe that Woodward, again, a former intelligence officer, could have framed Richard Nixon.

That's how full of shit Bill Murray believes Bob Woodward is based on the lies Woodward printed in his book on Bill Murray's friend, John Belushi. This is fascinating to me, fascinating stuff, okay? Especially since the rumors coming out of Washington at the moment, at least on X, about what's in the JFK files, that in some ways the secrets they're trying to protect in those files relate to Richard Nixon, and that that's in part why the files are not being disclosed right now in a timely manner, as has been required. requested by the current White House. All I'm going to say is you go Bill Murray. Call bullshit on the

bullshit or smearing balushi. I love this. All right. You know what else I love? Talking to you guys. And in light of our recent Thin Lizzie episode, we are going to be talking about your favorite Irish bands, your favorite Irish artists, excuse me, coming up in just a moment. But first I want to tell you about next week's episode on drum roll, please. George Michael. We're going from an Irishman to a Greek god. We were talking earlier about early MTV stars and George Michael was one of the biggest. So when you're listening to this upcoming episode, I want you to be thinking about those early days of MTV and which early era MTV artist was slash is your favorite. Is it George Michael? Is it Adam Ann? Is it Debbie Harry, Madonna, Cindy Lopper, Michael, Prince, Petty, so many to choose

from. This is going to be the question of the week. Which 80s MTV star is your fave? Call me 617-90666. Let me know via voicemail or text or hit me up at Disgraceland Pod on the socials. All right, before I forget, more Irishman coming up before George Michael. We got you two in your feed right after this episode in the rewind slot. You two next. And then like I said, George Michael coming up after that next week. I'll be back in a flash right after this with your voicemails, your text, your DMs, emails, and more. We are back. And just a quick reminder to make sure you Apple podcast listeners have auto downloads turned on so that you're not missing any episodes. All right, 617-9066638 to leave me a voicemailer, send me a text. With Ireland's favorite sons, St. Lizzie being this week's new

episode subject, we asked you the question of which Irish artist is your favorite. St. Patrick's Day is coming up. There's a reason we do this. Here we go. Hi, great. This is Doty Rose from the 206 with Seattle. I'm calling because my favorite band is you too, Irish or not. They're just straight at my favorite band. I grew up here in Seattle during Grunge, and it was bleak. It was dark, depressing, and dirty. And YouTube offered me something different. They were bright and colorful and really sexy.

And frankly, grunge is not sexy at all. And so YouTube was something different, something bright and colorful. You two also offered something. very different, which was a sense of hope for a depressed kid like me. I didn't really need any help being angsty. I didn't need any help being depressed. And so you too was something that was hopeful. When people say that music saved lives, they usually need people like me. And in the case of you too, it's actually millions of people. Doty, thank you so much for the the passionate you too love there and that voicemail. I can hear you getting emotional there at the end.

And I know that feeling. I know what it's like to feel, feel alone as a kid, and to feel like someone out there, you know, someone inside your speakers, someone on the other side of the television screen or whatever hears you, understands you, knows where you're coming from. And I get why that's emotional. I've certainly felt that in my life before. And I know most people listening right now have felt that. I know that's why people are listening because music is so, so, so meaningful to them, and especially from music from our formative years. And I love the way you frame you too as being light during the darkness. And I think you too gets, they get thought of from the era just before grunge, but they were certainly still part of that era. And they didn't really play in

to what was going on up in Seattle. They didn't try nicking it really. I mean, they definitely went in a different direction than they were going in on Rattle and Hum, but you two always kind of switched it up album to album and had different influences that were part of their sound and part of their image and they weren't just doing the same thing over and over again, but you're right, that hope has always been there, that light has always been there. And yeah, that sexiness is there, is there too. And it certainly was not there for the most part in grunge. So love this voicemail.

Thanks, Doty Rose. Appreciate you. Hope you doing well. All right, let's hear from Jenny in Boston. Hi, this is Jenny from Boston, and I'm calling in with two of my favorite musical acts from Ireland. One, favorite band, stiff little fingers, absolutely in inaceous, got that punk undertones, everything about it, rebellious spirit, just makes you want to grab the day and go with it. Second single musician, Chenate O'Connor, graceful, beautiful, voice of an angel. Rest in Peace.

Thank you. Thanks, Jenny. Absolutely love stiff little fingers. And you know what I love about stiff little fingers? I love to say nothing of the band's music. I love the little bit that they have in the movie, High Fidelity. When the Green Day fan, the young girl, come, I forget her, the actor's name, she's great. When she comes into the store and she wants to buy a Green Day record.

And the record store snob is kind of into her. And he's like, yeah, yeah, that's cool. Have you ever heard stiff little fingers? And of course, she has in any place stiff little fingers for her. And you can hear the Green Day influence. I just thought that was so smartly done. I really appreciate the message. Thanks for reminding me of that.

Jenny, appreciate you up in Boston. 617-90666-36-38. If you guys want to connect with me on anything, Irish bands, Irish artists, whatever you want to talk about it, I'm here for it. 206, right, saying, hey, thank you for putting out amazing content and engaging with your audience like this. I'm a listener from the beginning and I'm constantly telling my friends and family about it, whether they want to hear it or not. Thanks so much. You got it 206. 302 writes in, hey, OMG, need a Huey Lewis episode right now.

Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps. 530, been a bit, but best Irish band, the Pogues, perhaps they're English as well. The Cranberries would be a distant second. Cheers. Pogues were English, but McGowan was, his family was from Ireland. So yeah, I guess we can count it. 201 cranberries because Dolores O'Reardon was so fucking hot. I miss seeing Dolores O'Reardon at a studio. I was working at Camp Street in Cambridge, Mass. Long, long, long time ago, I missed her by about five minutes. That happens.

And, yeah, oh, well. But yeah, she was good looking. I don't think of her as hot. Talented, sure. 503 writes in, Jake, in beautiful disgrace, I beseech the pause on. If you want to maybe find a tether to dynamic female sense, centered storytelling magic, might I suggest these prompts? June Carter, Pussy Riot, Bonnie Raite, Tina Marie, Courtney Love, Billy Holiday, Lisa Suckdog. If you've covered them, Miacolpa. If not,

start getting excited to feature these badass bitches. And if the law never found them, crimes happed in ways that weren't told because what's the angle? And who's curating and editing the stories they get told? You're a force of good. Keep up the humble acknowledgement of the work yet to be done. Love. Signed, 503, female identified, using my words, finally, person who keeps tuning in. Well, well, well, 503. I love it. June Carter, we did a Johnny Cash episode, but yeah, a June Carter point of view episode would be great. Pussy Riot? Duh, of course. Yes. Although, do I want to throw my hat into anything vaguely political right now? And the answer to that is, No, so I'm probably going to pause on that. Bonnie Rae, okay, I'm listening. Tina Marie, I love that

idea. Courtney Love, we could do a Courtney Love focused episode. We did a Curt and Courtney two-parter. That's back in the archive. Check that out. Billy Holiday, we did an episode on Billy Holiday. It's fantastic. Check that out, 503. And Lisa Suckdog, I don't know who that is. So hit me back and let me know. Nikki Cooney DMs us on Facebook. Hey, Thin Lizzie are in a category of their own. When I was 12, my cousins bought jailbreak for me at Christmas. This is my favorite gift that Christmas thanks Patty and Katie so Patty and Katie I hope you're listening uh Nikki your niece is still thinking about that Christmas gift you got her long time ago all right good job Mike Harris writes in jailbreak is a perfect song no fat nothing missing Mike you're absolutely

right thank you someone wrote in hi Jack and you know what I'm not going to read your name because my name's not jack so let me get it right how many times am I in your ears guess you know my name come on that was all on Facebook over on Instagram JQ writes there are some great Irish band, stiff little fingers, the undertones, the cranberries, and the saw doctors, to name a few. I can't narrow it down to one favorite because it depends if I'm feeling punky, rocky, fokey, or a little bit of everything. I've not included the Pogs because they aren't technically all Irish, but if rules are bent, they're up there too. JQ, thank you. Appreciate that. You guys want to hit me up at Disgraceland Pod X, Facebook, Instagram. We are all over the place,

and we will be back in a flash. All right, we are back. And I just want to say here, thank you guys as always for the support. Thank you for the Patreon listeners. Thank you for everybody shouting us out on Instagram. And thank you everybody for the reviews. As you know, reviews help the story grow. They help with discovery. And that's why we make such a big deal about it here in disgrace land.

And we reward you guys for the reviews as well. If you leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and I read it here, that means that if you get in touch, we'll send you some free merch. That's a way of saying thank you. All right. over on Apple Podcast. Mama 94 writes, One is Not Enough. Jake, Mama 94 from the 225. My husband and I love your show.

Could listen to you all day. And some days I do just that. I tell everyone about this super cool cat with all the tea. Guys, you got to listen. I'd like to let a few pile up and then listen because one is not enough. Thanks, Jake. Keep up the good work. You got it, Mama 94.

Appreciate you. Get in touch. We'll get you some free merch. Elise Woodruff over on Spotify, right? Saying, hey, happy St. Patrick's Day. And thank you for the happy tears. brilliant episode about the most underrated rock band ever. Thin Lizzie, you got it at least.

Thank you for the review. We appreciate it. Guys, this episode is nearing its end, but the after party continues for our All Access members. You can sign up today. And you're going to get an extended version of this After Party episode, all right, where we're going to get into more conversation about music and true crime.

If you're an All Access member, you not only get that extra bonus part of this After Party. You also get one exclusive full episode per month. and add free listening. Okay? And the best part, it's only five bucks a month. $5 a month. Can you get all that?

You can join me in some of your fellow discos in the Patreon chat, or you can join as an Apple podcast listener as well. You can get the stuff served up there. Again, just for five bucks. Okay, go to disgracelandpod.com slash membership, become an All-access member today and you help support the show.

All right, we're going to go to the all-access portion here in just a minute. I'm going to talk a little bit about chaos, which is the Tom O'Songest, O'Neill book that I've talked a lot about here before that has been recently released as a Netflix documentary. We're going to talk about that. Get into this new episode that we're putting together for you for our all-access members on Slipknot. I'm going to talk about that a little bit. And some other stuff. All right. All right. We are back. Thanks, guys. I just want to mention

real quick, I didn't get to this earlier, but in the rewind spot, last week we got the two-pack episodes, the two-parter, and you guys really responded just in an amazing way. It goes to show that a lot of you listeners are new. and haven't been listening since the beginning. So you've missed a lot of episodes. That's why we do this archive, rewind episode every week. And I do hear from you guys from some of the older listeners who have been here from the beginning and are a little confused by why we do this.

And this is why. I mean, you know, we want to get our episodes to everybody. And when you have an archive of 200 plus stories, you have to resurface things. And the Tupac episodes that we just had in the feed prove this because the response has been incredible, particularly on Spotify. So thanks, guys. If you wrote to me, thank you. I appreciate it. We mentioned a bunch of artists today that we've done episodes on in the past. We mentioned June Carter Cash. And of course, there's a Johnny Cash episode. And the exclusive portion of this bonus episode, I was talking about Charles Manson. We have Charles Manson episode. We have two episodes on

Mama Cass Elliott that are related to the Manson saga. We were also talking about, I think I mentioned Steely Dan. Don't have a Steely Dan episode. But I talked about the Eagles. We have an Eagles episode. I believe Billy Holiday was brought up earlier in this episode as well. Also have an episode on Billy in the archive. Lots and lots and lots of archive episodes for you. Matt, as always, will have the episode information in the show notes for this episode. So if you just want a quick reference, if you hear Billy Holiday episode, just go to show notes. And he'll have the info there for you to easily find it along with all the other archive episodes that I just mentioned.

All right, let's recap. Number one, I didn't mention this. but I'm gearing up for some big news for you guys, okay? Big announcement coming soon, all right? Number two, right now, in your feed, our episode on Thin Lizzie. Number three, coming tomorrow, our Rewind episode on YouTube. Number four, merch winners, get in touch. You know who you are.

Thank you for the reviews. Number five, remember no one cares about preserving the true spirit of rock and roll more than you do. And well, that's a disgrace. All right, in honor of this week's subject, then Lizzie, I give you the billboard charts from January 4th, 1986, the day Phil Linnet died. Number one, say you, say me, Lionel Richie. Last week, one. Peak position, one. Weeks on chart, nine.

Number two, party all the time. Eddie Murphy. Last week, two. Peak position, two. Weeks on chart, 14. Number three, alive and kicking, simple minds. Last week, three. Peak position, three.

Weeks on chart, 12. Number four, that's what friends are for. Dionne, friends, featuring Elton John Gladys Nibundon. Last week, four. Peak position. Four, weeks on charm. Nine. Number five, I miss you.

Climax. Last week. Five, peak position. And start mixing. Cut it!